krnet-l-digest Sunday, April 27 1997 Volume 01 : Number 003 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:51:13 -0400 From: t48715@twobit.dehavilland.ca (Kevin Oickle) Subject: KR: RE: ? on Trim Tabs Vince Bozik wrote: "...From what I've gathered from this list, trim tabs are used to push the elevator in the opposing direction, thereby causing a reaction. So, if the trailing edge of the tab is moved into the upwards direction, the elevator is forced in the downward(causing the nose of the plane to rotate down) direction. What I don't understand is: If the force required to move the elevator down moves it down, and the setup finds it's equalibrium and stablizes, How the heck does this affect the pitch of the plane? What I mean is: The same force that is making the trim tab move the elevator(or rudder) down, is getting an equal and opposite force from the other side, otherwise the tab would be fully effective putting all of the throw into the elevator and would not serve a purpose..." Hey there Vince, I can see where your reasoning is going wrong. The purpose of an elevator/aileron/rudder/ etc.. is to increase the lift on the airfoil that it is attached to. ie. deflecting the aileron down increases the lift on that wing. The way that it does this is essentially it increases the effective camber on the airfoil, thus increasing the airfoil's lift. The consequense of the deflected aileron/flap ("flap" from now on) is that there is a moment on the flap which tries to return it back to neutral (this moment through the mechanical linkage to the control stick is "felt" as a force by the pilot). The trim tab is deflected in the opposite direction of the flap and it in turn increases the pitching moment of the flap which counters the moment from the deflection of the flap. (Sorry not good wording) There are four moments here, 1) the piching moment on the airfoil including all deflected surfaces (large) 2) the moment on the deflected flap (small) 3) the pitching moment of the flap with the trim tab deflected (relatively large) 4) and the moment of the trim tab (very small) Numbers 2 and 3 are opposite and of equal magnitude when the tab is deflected the right amount and the stick requires no "force" to trim. (NOTE: The moments occur due to the aerodynamics and I can go into more detail if you guys want) Vince, where you went wrong was assuming that the lift on the horizontal tail was also the same "force" on the elevator that you feel on the stick, and hence what was required to be provided by the trim tab. Your second question about the "...extentions on the bottom of ailerons...", do you mean a horn balance? A horn balance is used to aerodynamically balance the control surface, decreasing the control "forces". I know, long winded!! But it's Friday and I can't write straight. :) Have a great weekend... Kevin - --- Kevin B. Oickle Phone: (416) 375-7634 (W) de Havilland Inc. - DASH 8-400 FAX: (416) 373-7361 (W) Stability & Control Group e-mail: koickle@dehavilland.ca DISCLAIMER: These opinions are mine and mine alone and are not those of my employer. The use or reliance on or decisions based on this information is not my responsibility. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:27:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: RE: ? on Trim Tabs In a message dated 4/25/97 12:53:28 PM, you wrote: <<"...extentions on the bottom of ailerons...",>> Usually referred to as "spades". Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:23:43 -0400 From: jwcox@tc3net.com (Joseph Cox) Subject: Re: KR: Wood Repair Owen Davies wrote: > > That idea of using cyanoacrylate to repair a longeron crack > really worries me. Great glues in the short term, but I've > always understood that they are likely to let go after a > few years. Anyone else know more about this? > > Owen Davies I've been using cyano type glues for 12 years in rc the trick is double glue the joint. Hit it with the thin glue first then the medium. 10 year old planes are soaked with castor oil and nitromethane sometimes to the point that the wood will flex like rubber and the glue joints hold. remember the Voyager. It comes in 3 grades thin,thick and gap filling there is even several types that can be used on foam even the large bead stuff that almost dissolves under hot water. I plan on using it along with West System epoxy. I will not use it on spars and sutch but it will have it's uses. happy flying Joe Cox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:00:40 -0500 From: Roli Kriening Subject: KR: Potential Builder Hi folks, I am a potential builder in Winnipeg, Canada. I have the opportunity to buy a partial KR2S kit from someone in a town = nearby. The add reads as follows: Partial kit includes all wood, foam, fiberglass, glue and plans - price = $2000.00 CAN.=20 He has had the crates for a year and a half and has not opened them - or = so he states. He has kept the crates in a temperature controlled = environment - his father is a finish carpenter and keeps all his wood at = 60 degrees F. Not knowing much about the kit, other than the prices on = the Web Site.... I can only assume that he is referring to the parts in = Group 1 and Group 4, but I am not sure. If that is the case - this seems = to be a good deal. The price translates into about $1460 US. Any = thoughts from you experienced builders? Anything I should watch out for? = Would the epoxy have an expiry date? Etc. Also I am trying to find out just how long it takes to build a basic = KR2S Trigear. I am not looking for a prize winner - just a good solid = aircraft I can fly and have some fun in. Roli ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:54:36 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: project update Netheads, I glassed my vertical stabilizer tonight, using one layer of 5.85 oz cloth and one layer of 1.45 oz cloth. Well, actually I used two layers of 1.45, but I mananged to throw the first one away with the polyethylene. The stuff just about disappears, especially when it is cut to size along with the plastic. One of those things where everything goes perfectly. The glass was precut and laid out, I estimated the amount of epoxy perfectly, and it went on flawlessly. Then when smoothing it all out, noticed my 1.45 was missing. Quick, cut more plastic and cloth, mix more expoxy, and do it all over again. As always, pictures at 6 o'clock. This is the last major fuselage component, and it's starting to look like an airplane. I may soon start my wings. Also got my Cleveland 5" brakes today. They are nice, and I'll now be able to put the monster on gear, thanks to inheriting Jim Hill's tailwheel. I can also hook up the elevator and stick controls. Still going with the Type 4... Mark Langford langford@hiwaay.net http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:04:31 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: wing flaps and ailerons Bobby I have about 135 hours in my KR-2 N54PB, I would not decrease the aileron size. My opinion is that if the pitching rate and the the roll rates could be swapped things would be just right. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the KR-2 very much but for my liking I would increase the roll rate slightly and decrease the pitching rate of the associated controls. Regards Parley Byington On 24 Apr 97 at 6:36, Bobby Muse wrote: > At 12:54 PM 4/22/97 -0600, you wrote: > >At 10:59 97/4/22 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >>The KR has always had a reputation for being a very fast performing aircraft > >>both in pitch and roll. The pitch, because of being short coupled, the 2s > >>should fix that. > >>But the roll? I've heard it said you think about turning this way or that > >>and the KR goes. Could it be that the aileron could be shortened? there by > >>allowing for a larger flap? > > > >SNIP > > > >> David Moore > >> > > > >Maybe a better KR pilot will comment on this but my short ride in Troy's > >KR-2 gave me the impression of very nice roll control. Not only that, but > >there did not appear to be a need to use rudders during a roll. I think it > >is designed that way but other than a difference in deflection of opposing > >ailerons, I cannot accurately state why that is. So my guess is that you > >would not need to change the ailerons. > > > >Realize that my time in a KR is limited so take my comments accordingly. > > > >Ron Lee > > > > > Ron, I don't believe it could be said any better. The differential ailerons is the reason the KR has the ability to perform turns using only the ailerons. > > > Bobby Muse > bmuse@mindspring.com > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:36:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: west system epoxy I plan on using it along >with West System epoxy. I will not use it on spars and sutch but it will >have it's uses. > happy flying > Joe Cox You are using the west system for fiberglass??? I was not aware that they made one that was suitable for structural applications. Am I mistaken? Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:41:34 -0700 From: "David M. Gargasz" Subject: KR: flaps Hi kr flyers, Ben with a set of kr2 plans for over 3 yrs, dam near wore them out and havent cut a stick of wood yet. The only thing I ever flew was a 40 hp talorcraft with a franklin enjine. I took lessons while in the army the cost then was $5.00 an hr. The only instruments were; a wire sticking out of the gas cap indicating fuel, a basic airspeed indicator that was read in conjuntion with a angle of a ribon attached to the wing strut, a wet compas with a red line permanently set about 30 degrees never to exceed while banking climbing or descending, the liquid was never to touch the red mark, a altimeter that after calibration was accurate to about 150' or so. The craft was so underpowered that lessons were given for; tacking in head winds, power landing tecniques for cross win landins while crabing the craft holding the winward wing down. When I retired I had time to get involved in my younger intrest, model aircraft and general aviation. I looked at alot of designs and settled on a kr to build for these reasons; within buget, landing speeds I'm accostmed to, off the ground in 350', landing 750', 1200' per minute climb solo, vw enjine [I have a type 3 fuel injected lombada computer 87 ft. lbs. torque @ 2200 rpm.]. I intend to keep theplane @ home but my strip is alittle tight 450'x1400' with 50' trees on one end and 20' telephone-electric lines on the other. To mitigate the problem I intend to increase the main spars from 7' to 9' this would increase the wing area approx 7 sq. ft. to generate a safety factor to clear the trees this also allows 1/3 larger flaps to get up sooner, all possible with min added weight. Coming in 20' over the trees with full flaps should allow a flair out and touch in about 700' with a safety factor of 300' left on the 1400' strip. Am I in the ball park with my plans? Whats the minimum strip do you need to land and clear a 50' obsticle safely? Not to much in the kr archives as to flying handling landing minimums other than you fly it with your elbow rested using two fingers, I'd like to hear more about; cross wind landings, short field take offs, avoiding ground loops, mushing but avioding stalls, ground handling on grass strips. All your coments are appreciated. thanks Gene Gargasz % dave@erienet.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 05:15:52 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: west system epoxy At 19:36 4/25/97 -0600, you wrote: > I plan on using it along >>with West System epoxy. I will not use it on spars and sutch but it will >>have it's uses. >> happy flying >> Joe Cox > >You are using the west system for fiberglass??? I was not aware that they >made one that was suitable for structural applications. Am I mistaken? > >Ron Lee > > I am using West System epoxy for structural bonding and have had excellent results so far. It was recommended by a local boat builder who has a reputation of building the best wooden boats in the region. I use the 105 resin and 206 hardener (slow cure). I bought a quart kit with proportioner pumps for 45.00. All the test blocks I have made break in the wood. West System will send you a very nice info package detailing various uses. You can request this info at http://www.concentric.net/~Westsys/ There are some interesting comments on clamping pressure and fillers with it's uses in boatbuilding at http://www.gregboats.com/TextPages/epoxy.html After reading this, I may start saving my sanding dust! Austin CLark Pascagoula MS. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:34:02 -0700 From: daturley Subject: Re: KR: Potential Builder Roli Kriening wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I am a potential builder in Winnipeg, Canada. > > I have the opportunity to buy a partial KR2S kit from someone in a town nearby. The add reads as follows: > > Partial kit includes all wood, foam, fiberglass, glue and plans - price $2000.00 CAN. > > He has had the crates for a year and a half and has not opened them - or so he states. He has kept the crates in a temperature controlled environment - his father is a finish carpenter and keeps all his wood at 60 degrees F. Not knowing much about the kit, other than the prices on the Web Site.... I can only assume that he is referring to the parts in Group 1 and Group 4, but I am not sure. If that is the case - this seems to be a good deal. The price translates into about $1460 US. Any thought > > Also I am trying to find out just how long it takes to build a basic KR2S Trigear. I am not looking for a prize winner - just a good solid aircraft I can fly and have some fun in. > > Roli Sounds a little high to me, as I seem to remember having seen people selling full kits with the aircraft half built for that amount of money (minus engines, instruments, ect- just airframe pieces). >From the past postings a "Normal Range" of building time seems to be from 1500-2000 man hours. 30 days was the quickest I have heard and 3000 hours has been mentioned. Your milage may vary. I think a lot of this "time factor" can be broken down to a very few variables: 1. Have you built a previous aircraft of similar construction? 2. Are you using any pre-built components? 3. Are you working on the aircraft like a job (6-10 hours a day) or just "once in a while" (which hurts efficiency) 4. Do you have knowledgable help? 5. Do you work in an "efficient" workshop with all the tools a person could want or in a one car garage with a handsaw, three old clamps and a 40 watt lightbulb? (Many of us started out with the latter and ended up doing whatever we could to end up with the former!) My "sharethoughts"- if you find the useful or think about them for more than five minutes please forward the users fee of .02 . . . . . .Smile! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:58:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Potential Builder Roli, Doesn't sound like a good deal to me. You might want to get a complete listing of what he has in his kit. If he had everything less engine, inst., etc. it might be worth considering. But for just the basic spruce, plywood and AN hardware, you could do better somewhere else. If you do decide to do it, pitch the epoxy. I believe the shelf life is around 12 months. If you can get your hands on trade-a-plane, you might see some other KR kits which you could use as a comparison. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:41:16 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Possible builder...(NOT FOR ARCHIVE) Steven A Eberhart wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Tom Crawford wrote: > > [big editorial snip] > > > This is not counting about the same > > number of hours standing there with a dumb look on my face, scratching my > > head trying to figure out how to do something that is not made clear in the > > construction manual. > > > > Construction manual? Construction Manual? you got a construction manual? > I got a notebook that meticulously described how to make the retractable > gear that nobody is using, some notes on construction methods and some > notes and drawings. My favorite sentence is "Just run the spar caps through the table saw using the jig, and perfectly tapered spar caps will result". I did not get perfectly tapered spar caps. It took me about a year to get around to fixing mine up with a power planer. Grrr! Manual Grrr! -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:46:04 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Re: Your Article on KR Jerry, I don't know what Don is referring to, I haven't written anything well thought out at all, probably ever. I suspect it was one of the other talented contributors to either KR NET or the KRONLINE newsletter. But it most certainly wasn't me. I just make sure the email goes where it's supposed to. Regarding KRNET, I didn't start this. A gentleman by the name of Mike Graves did, but he got married, and passed the reigns to me. Don will have to let us know what article he was referring to that he attributes to me. I don't know what this would be. -- Regards Ross Gerald Jones wrote: > > Ross, > > I'm new to the list and learning rapidly from the experiences of others > as I explore the possiblities for the KR2 boat I was recently given. > Don's article suggests I may not have to build a KR2S to tame pitch > sensitivity and he also refers to an apparently well thought out piece > you wrote on the KR. I would very much appreciate it if you would > further my understanding by mailing me the piece to which Don refers. > > BTW, thank you for developing this much needed net. I look forward to > meeting you in the future. > > Jerry Jones, N95ES - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:54:36 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: ? on Trim Tabs Vince Bozik wrote: > > > Another question: Have any of you seen those extentions on the bottom > > of ailerons? They run from the aileron, are angled forward of it's axis, > > and have a little "wing" on the end of them. They have an effect of > > balancing the resistance that the airflow has when the aileron is > > introduced into the airflow. Because of their longer arm, there's not > > much surface area on them. I've seen these on a Cap 231, on the ailerons > > and elevator, and am thinking that they're for reducing the stick > > pressure needed for aerobatics during extreme aileron travel. They're > > not mechanical, but are just "there," as part of the aileron. > Vince Bozik - Athens, Georgia > Mailto:ICBM@ix.netcom.com Vince, I'm pondering your trim tab question, trying to come up with a good explaination. I have to put my physics and statics/dynamics hat on which means finding it and dusting it off... The Aileron one is easy. You are referring to Aileron Spades. I have seen them on Bi-planes and Aerobatic monoplanes. They do adjust the stick forces required for the ailerons, but I don't recall the design reason for using them at the moment vs other methods. I think they might be overkill for the KR. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:07:32 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Potential Builder Roli, I'm thinking that around 1000 hours and your KR will be nearly finished. You have to figure out how you are going to divide that up. 40hrs/week, 2 hrs week... I'm at about 900 hours and I might finish within another 100 or so. -- Ross Roli Kriening wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I am a potential builder in Winnipeg, Canada. > > I have the opportunity to buy a partial KR2S kit from someone in a town nearby. The add reads as follows: > > Partial kit includes all wood, foam, fiberglass, glue and plans - price $2000.00 CAN. > > He has had the crates for a year and a half and has not opened them - or so he states. He has kept the crates in a temperature controlled environment - his fat > > Also I am trying to find out just how long it takes to build a basic KR2S Trigear. I am not looking for a prize winner - just a good solid aircraft I can fly a > > Roli - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:16:53 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: [none] Ross Youngblood wrote: > >For those who are swamped by the email to KRNET, and just want to keep > >up with the email, you might want to join the digest. However > >currently if you unsubscribe to KRNET-L, you will no longer be able to > >post to KRNET. > > > -- Ross > > Ross, does that mean if you are only getting the digest, you cannot post? > > Ron Sender: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: krnet-l I'm sorry but currently that's what it means. I can open up the postings to KRNET, but I have heard that the list could become swamped by spam posts. (This has happened to other lists hosted by Teleport). However, this is my list only in that I admin it. If I hear a groundswell for changing the posting policy, I will change it... Whats the consensus? Should I open up posts? (Send me email directly to mailto:rossy@teleport.com) I will report the findings. I can always change it back if we get swamped... I'm on the fence here. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:52:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: potential KR Builder (no archive) At 10:07 97/4/26 -0700, you wrote: >Roli, > I'm thinking that around 1000 hours and your KR will be nearly >finished. You have to figure out how you are going to divide that >up. 40hrs/week, 2 hrs week... > > I'm at about 900 hours and I might finish within another 100 or so. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > -- Ross GO ROSS GO!!!!!!!! Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:39:53 +0000 From: Robert Lasecki Subject: KR: aileron linkage Can anyone advise me regarding the proper angle for aileron belcrank angle with respect to the main spar at zero deflection? The "construction manual" is slightly vague :-( Also, am I correct is seeing that 3/16 hardware is shown for use with the aileron pushrods yet the pushrod bearings are bored out for 1/4" screws? Are sleeves required? Even the new plans aren't much clearer in this area. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:38:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: west system epoxy At 07:36 PM 4/25/97 -0600, you wrote: > I plan on using it along >>with West System epoxy. I will not use it on spars and sutch but it will >>have it's uses. >> happy flying >> Joe Cox > >You are using the west system for fiberglass??? I was not aware that they >made one that was suitable for structural applications. Am I mistaken? Keep in mind most of the fiberglass components on the KR are non structural. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: DAmbrose12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Potential Builder Hi: I posted this ad from the C.O.P.A. paper but did not see it on the net so I'll relay it again for anyone interested. It has been in for about 3 mos. or so. KR2S kit for sale. includes plans, construction manual, complete wing spars, horiz. stab and elevator. Sport plane manual by Tony B. numerous magazines, aircraft plywood and spruce lumber, fiberglass, epoxy etc. asking $500.00 Plans alone are worth $325.00 Call Betty in Duncan B.C. @ (604) 748-1307 or Ken @ (604) 652-3528 for info I hope this helps you or someone else start their dream!! Regards Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:04:52 -0500 From: "Tim \"KitaruSapien\" Tracey" Subject: Re: KR: west system epoxy At 05:15 AM 4/26/97, you wrote: >At 19:36 4/25/97 -0600, you wrote: >> I plan on using it along >>>with West System epoxy. I will not use it on spars and sutch but it will >>>have it's uses. >>> happy flying >>> Joe Cox >> >>You are using the west system for fiberglass??? I was not aware that they >>made one that was suitable for structural applications. Am I mistaken? >> >>Ron Lee >> >> >I am using West System epoxy for structural bonding and have had excellent >results so far. It was recommended by a local boat builder who has a >reputation of building the best wooden boats in the region. I use the 105 >resin and 206 hardener (slow cure). >I bought a quart kit with proportioner pumps for 45.00. All the test >blocks I have made break in the wood. West System will send you a very >nice info package detailing various uses. You can request this info at > >http://www.concentric.net/~Westsys/ > >There are some interesting comments on clamping pressure and fillers with >it's uses in boatbuilding at > >http://www.gregboats.com/TextPages/epoxy.html > >After reading this, I may start saving my sanding dust! > >Austin CLark >Pascagoula MS. > I used West System on my hybrid 15' deep-V racer with phenomenal results. The hull was laid up in a reverse sandwich of marine ply/carbon-fiber to make the most of the shock absorbancy of the marine ply. She ran(with surface-drive/ overdrive gears/500cu.in.)at over 112 MPH in light chop. The only problem I witnessed was that the outer skin was somewhat scored from the pounding...but no excessive damage anywhere. Heck, she had more wear marks on the prop than she had on the epoxy skin. I will always highly recommend West System as long as some usage consultation occurs & instructions are followed. KitaruSapien ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:24:37 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: KR: Another Project Update KR Netters, Today was the biggest day so far in the life of this project. Today, we assembled the airplane, did an almost final weight and balance, calibrated the fuel tanks, leak tested the fuel system, and finally breathed life into this project and lit the engine up. With the 60x66 prop from Performance Props on the C-85, my tach showed it could turn 2300 RPM static. Tomorrow I'll do another run with an electric strobed tach to verify whether my tach is reading correctly. If it is, I'll probably return my prop back to the manufacturer to have the leading edge protection installed and the final finish applied. The only problem noted in the initial run in is that my four point CHT isn't registering for any cylinders. Also on the leak test, there were nine fuel fittings undr the headertank that were all loose and seeping fuel. It was cause for about 20 minutes of acrobatics with me standing on my head in the cockpit tightening up fuel lines and fittings. For weight and balance, my empty weight is now up to 688.5 lbs, which is a bit heavy for a KR, but not too bad for a Continental Powered KR-2S with full electric and night capable. With the long RR engine mount and the heavy Continental up front, the CG comes out at 1.17 inches aft of the FRONT limit with my 250# frame on board. At this point in time, I don't have any parts left to buy before the plane flies. I will probably lay up the wing attach fairings tomorrow which is the last of the glass work. I still need to sand the last coat of primer and do some minor spot filling, then prime again, sand lightly, and paint. It should be ready for it's trip to the airport sometime in June, with the FAA inspection shortly after. The goal is still to have the time flown off in time to take it to Perry. If anyone's interested in pictures, John Bryhan was helping with the work today and shot several pictures with a digital camera. The pictures should be posted to his web page on Sunday or Monday. Sorry, I can't remember his URL off hand. Maybe John will post it when he posts the pictures. Jeff Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:34:36 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: wing flaps and ailerons Ross I agree with the roll rate versus the pitch rate but have never had controls bind up on me. I have never noticed any bulging of the wings on mine as some have said they have observed. Any binding of controls SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF IMMEDIATELY before the next flight. Regards Parley Byington N54PB On 22 Apr 97 at 21:12, Ross Youngblood wrote: > Donald Reid wrote: > > > I talked to a KR builder at a flyin (but did not get a name) who said > > that he had a low roll rate that was not really in harmony with the pitch > > rate. He also said that in a high speed, hi G turn, his ailerons would > > bind up. Does anyone know about this? > > Sounds like somthing that should be fixed. Binding controls sound > nasty. > > -- Ross > -- > Ross Youngblood > KRNET-L administrator > mailto:rossy@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 02:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Another Project Update In a message dated 97-04-27 00:29:25 EDT, you write: << Today was the biggest day so far in the life of this project. Today, we assembled the airplane, did an almost final weight and balance, calibrated the fuel tanks, leak tested the fuel system, and finally breathed life into this project and lit the engine up. >> Jeff: I know I speak for most of us (if not all, since maybe of few don't agree with my point of view) congratulations! Another KR Chicklette is close to leaving the nest. I'm looking forward to the prospect of seeing your new baby at Perry. Keep us informed and thanks for the inspiration... Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:49:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Possible builder...(NOT FOR ARCHIVE) On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Steven A Eberhart wrote: > On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Tom Crawford wrote: > > [big editorial snip] > > > This is not counting about the same > > number of hours standing there with a dumb look on my face, scratching my > > head trying to figure out how to do something that is not made clear in the > > construction manual. > > > > Construction manual? Construction Manual? you got a construction manual? > I got a notebook that meticulously described how to make the retractable > gear that nobody is using, some notes on construction methods and some > notes and drawings. After you take out the retract section and the > construction methods sections there is very little left filling up the > book. Compare that with what you get for a Cozy IV and it makes you > wonder. You can even make a phone call and talk to someone who has built > and flown a Cozy - curious marketing strategy ;-) Oh well, as I have said > before, I am keeping the design for the drink holder and scrapping most > everything else - guess I didn't need a manual after all ;-) > > Steve Eberhart > newtech@newtech.com > > Steve, You are right about the manual. When I first saw it before I began building, I thought Geez- if that's all there is to it, I should have this sucker done in about six months. HA! Take a look at a Lancair or Glassair manual. At least with them you know what you are in for. Tom Crawford KR4QV Gainesville, FL tomc@afn.org KR2 N262TC 90% done, 50% to go. You bet I'm a Gator! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: potential KR Builder (no archive) On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Ron Lee wrote: > At 10:07 97/4/26 -0700, you wrote: > >Roli, > > I'm thinking that around 1000 hours and your KR will be nearly > >finished. You have to figure out how you are going to divide that > >up. 40hrs/week, 2 hrs week... > > > > I'm at about 900 hours and I might finish within another 100 or so. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > -- Ross > > GO ROSS GO!!!!!!!! > > Ron Ross, I dont know if you have started the finishing yet, (filling, sanding, filling, sanding, filling, sanding, etc.) but it is surprising how much time is spent trying to get it smooth. I dont have the total finishing hours added up at this point, but mine's probably around 300 or so. Yea 300, and I have heard some KR flyers mention up to 2000 (!) just on finishing. Optimism never hurts, but.... #:) Tom Crawford KR4QV Gainesville, FL tomc@afn.org KR2 N262TC 90% done, 50% to go. You bet I'm a Gator! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:25:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: aileron linkage On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Robert Lasecki wrote: > Can anyone advise me regarding the proper angle for aileron belcrank angle > with respect to the main spar at zero deflection? The "construction manual" > is slightly vague :-( > Also, am I correct is seeing that 3/16 hardware is shown for use with the > aileron pushrods yet the pushrod bearings are bored out for 1/4" screws? > Are sleeves required? > Even the new plans aren't much clearer in this area. > > Vague? Vague? (wild laughter.....) I beleive this is a typo, I found the same thing. I just used 1\4" bolts. Tom Crawford KR4QV Gainesville, FL tomc@afn.org KR2 N262TC 90% done, 50% to go. You bet I'm a Gator! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:26:53 +0000 From: Robert Lasecki Subject: KR: Suppliers I have two points for general info. An excellent supplier who provides great technical support for parts and instruments at very cometitive prices is Varga Enterprises in Chandler Arizona (800-966-6936). They do not have as big a listing as either Wicks or Spruce but there is a definite advantage to price shopping, especially for brand items as the selling prices vary considerably. An example is the Wheelen #3 strobe package DIFFERENCE between Spruce and Wicks is over $200. That aint chicken feed. My second point is a word of caution about the "cheap" instruments available through Wag Aero. About a year ago I was asked to test a number of tachometers of theirs and found them to have an average 600 RPM error at 3000 RPM. Not very good. Also, a member of the company who claims to be the importer for them (the same company who imports gauge parst for Westach) recently asked me "who cares if an altimeter is four hundred feet off, you can see where you are going, can't you?" That scared me. Wag aero was indited by the feds for selling non-approved Chinese parts for certificated aircraft (according to the magazine articles) but settled out of court the day before the trial began. They now have new ownership and hopefully will be selling better quality items. My point is if anyone is really interested in buying "super cheap" instruments -- be careful -- you might just get what you pay for. IMHO few aircraft instruments made in China are really airworthy and those which are have a sound American company supporting them. My KR-2S is being built in Lake Bluff, IL and is currently underway by about 250 hours. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #3 ***************************