From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #25 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, May 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 025 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:51:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: I am finally a KR owner! (no archive) Just took possesion of Roy Marsh's KR-2S derivative. He flew it to Colorado Springs from the Albuquerque area. After an extensive discussion of the plane's systems and operating rules, I towed it on a makeshift dolly attached to my manly man 18 hp yard tractor to my house. I had problems with my removable center section garage structure so I had to park it outside. I have about 100 hours of tail dragger time...learning in a Cessna 140 and then 180 but am not current. So I fimally found an instructor who is now helping me get back up to some level of competency in a Cessna 140. First day the crosswinds were a bit high so we just taxied, including semi-high speed taxi tests. Second day still a crosswind but we flew anyway. Had problems with applying brakes and that was solved by taking my tennis shoes off to improve knowing what I am doing down there. This morning the wind was down the runway. Landings and take-offs much improved from yesterday. Still plan TBD hours (pattern work for lots of landings) before I fly the KR (Did fly it in January). Will use Rick's test plan and another book on testing homebuilts to slowly familiarize myself with the plane and systems. Will report back as that progresses but my going in osition is that it will take as long as it takes. Could be a week or two..or three before I attempt to fly it I did notice the lack of inspection covers in the tail section. That discussion earlier this year was helpful so that is a planned modifi- cation. Will have to look at archives or KR Docs to see if good plans are mentioned.... but I suspect that a plywood backing (circular) with nutplates to support a plexiglass window may be the way to go. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:09:25 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: I am finally a KR owner! (no archive) Ron, Let me be the first one to congratulate you, I've seen Roy Marsh plane and I am envious. Good luck, and may the wing always blow straight down the runway! At 05:51 PM 05/29/1997 -0600, you wrote: >Just took possesion of Roy Marsh's KR-2S derivative. He flew it >to Colorado Springs from the Albuquerque area. > >After an extensive discussion of the plane's systems and operating >rules, I towed it on a makeshift dolly attached to my manly man >18 hp yard tractor to my house. > >I had problems with my removable center section garage structure >so I had to park it outside. > >I have about 100 hours of tail dragger time...learning in a Cessna >140 and then 180 but am not current. So I fimally found an >instructor who is now helping me get back up to some level of >competency in a Cessna 140. First day the crosswinds were a bit high >so we just taxied, including semi-high speed taxi tests. > >Second day still a crosswind but we flew anyway. Had problems with >applying brakes and that was solved by taking my tennis shoes off to >improve knowing what I am doing down there. > >This morning the wind was down the runway. Landings and take-offs >much improved from yesterday. Still plan TBD hours (pattern work for >lots of landings) before I fly the KR (Did fly it in January). > >Will use Rick's test plan and another book on testing homebuilts to >slowly familiarize myself with the plane and systems. Will report >back as that progresses but my going in osition is that it will take >as long as it takes. Could be a week or two..or three before I >attempt to fly it > >I did notice the lack of inspection covers in the tail section. That >discussion earlier this year was helpful so that is a planned modifi- >cation. Will have to look at archives or KR Docs to see if good >plans are mentioned.... but I suspect that a plywood backing (circular) >with nutplates to support a plexiglass window may be the way to go. > >Ron Lee > > > David Moore Hesperia,Calif. 92345 Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:10:06 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Water Cooled VW Catalog The company is: Autotech Sport Tuning 32240-e Paseo Adelnto San Juan Capistrano, CA 92675-0450 800-553-1055 Also, for you magneto guys, the vertex magneto will fit this engine. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:30:53 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Tail hinges Just to make sure I didn't give anyone the wrong idea, I made my own hinges, but I ordered the complete airplane bolt kit from Wicks. This bolt kit supposedly contains the nuts and bolts for the hinges, and none of them are drilled/castellated/etc. Seems to me that the drilled/cotter pinned approach is probably a prudent one, does anyone think it's overkill? My finger is poised over the Wicks speed dial key.... (glad you liked that one.... ;-}) Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:00:40 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins In a message dated 97-05-29 05:55:29 EDT, you write: << (use drilled head bolts for mounting the hinges to the spars) Micheal Mims >> I didn't think safety wiring hardware was necessary if one used a locking nut. If my memory serves me correctly, I thought we just safetied those pieces of hardware that could come loose from vibrating or turning. I didn't think there was any mention of safetying in the manual but I'm sure finding out things about the "manual"! Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:06:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins At 10:00 PM 5/29/97 -0400, you wrote: I didn't think safety wiring hardware was necessary if one used a locking nut. It was just an idea to keep the bolt from spinning if that was the desired setup, but yes safety wire is also used with lock nuts in some applications. I have seen it in a few places on real airplanes and was perplexed as to why it was done but if McDonald Douglas says do then I do it! :-) _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:12:05 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins I used bolt only. On the elevator there was no slop after 1500 hours of flight time (3 hinges) the rudder (2 hinges) had to redrill the top hole to 1/4-28 to take up slop at about 1300 hours. steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:13:46 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props i had tried windmilling my 1835 VW once at Rock Falls Illinois on a 10,000 ft runway. No luck at 130 mph when I started to slow down to land. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:18:27 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges At 21:30 5/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >... Seems to me that the drilled/cotter pinned approach >is probably a prudent one, does anyone think it's overkill? ... >Rick Junkin >EagleGator@aol.com > > I can relay a scary story about a Flybaby rudder control cable shackle that WASN'T secured with a castle nut/split pin.... until the split pin holding the cotter pin came adrift in the air. NOW it uses a nut and split pin. Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:17:14 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins At 07:06 PM 5/29/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 10:00 PM 5/29/97 -0400, you wrote: > I didn't think safety wiring hardware was necessary if one used a locking >nut. > >It was just an idea to keep the bolt from spinning if that was the desired >setup, I guess I should be a little more clear on this, some guys are using bushings in half or both sides of the hinges. In most cases you would want to make sure the hinge bushing is rotating around the bolt and not the bolt rotating inside the hinge half without the bushing. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:20:25 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges At 09:18 PM 5/29/97, you wrote: >>... Seems to me that the drilled/cotter pinned approach >>is probably a prudent one, does anyone think it's overkill? ... >>Rick Junkin >>EagleGator@aol.com Its not over kill its the way its done, check Tony Bingelis books. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:07:32 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Information on the KR Gathering Hello Everyone! I haven't posted anything for quite a while. I have been really busy at work. We have been working 68 hours a week for the past two months and I haven't had much time to do anything. I have finally updated the list of who has responded to the survey about attending the gathering. You can see all the info about the gathering and who plans on attending so far (not the only ones, just the only ones who are on the net and have responded to the survey). The Gathering info is at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9904/ Please visit this site if you haven't already done so. I haven't received any new info on the gathering for a while so I haven't benn able to update anything yet. By the way, congratulations Jeff on getting your KR painted, it looks great and I hope to see it in Perry in September. Well by for now Brian J Bland bbland@busprod.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:02:13 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: Re: KR: I am finally a KR owner! (no archive) Congratulations Ron! I'm sure you'll like it. Have fun teaching your feet what those funny pedals on the floor are all about. - ---- Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com See construction of KR-2S N1213W at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html - ---- On Thu, 29 May 1997 17:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Ron Lee writes: >Just took possesion of Roy Marsh's KR-2S derivative. He flew it >to Colorado Springs from the Albuquerque area. > - --------------snip------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:55:10 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: GM/Bosch Throttle Body Injection I've read of many possible approaches to the fuel system challenges involved in flying auto engines. One that I don't think I've ever seen proposed is using GM/Bosch throttle body injectors(I know about the DIY-EFI list, but that seems more geared toward cars). Since we don't have to worry about emissions considerations, all you would need to control it would be a TPS(throttle position sensor) and a potentiometer on the panel to adjust the mixture(OK, maybe I'm being a little simplistic here). The only downside I see is the reliance on electrical power and a high pressure fuel pump. I've never broached this theory before, but I just found the following web site: http://www.turbocity.com/VW/vw.html This system is excessive for our needs, but check it out and share your thoughts on this approach. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:35:31 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: I am finally a KR owner! (no archive) Ron Lee wrote: > > Just took possesion of Roy Marsh's KR-2S derivative. > Ron Lee Why did Roy sell it? Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:51:08 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props > > > Even if your engine stops,if you keep your airspeed to landing, and stop in > more than 20 ft under 60 mph (less g's, ah, might be the 45 mph figure :), > and you will survive.You may be damaged, but you should survive > nonetheless. Unless something spikes you in your non-Nerf cockpit :) > >Bill Reents >Unlike you lucky guys in the midwest, here in the northeast we have many mountains and trees to contend with. Sometimes any field is non-existant. No wonder panic sets in when no field is available. Got to have that reliable engine. ("Relative reliability of a lightbulb" is what my mechanic friend Gary says about single engines. Bob Smith, KR2S in slow progress, flight training in faster progress ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:50:35 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Forward from the Soob list Just thought the info below may be of some value to KR builders looking into a direct drive Subaru. For comparison, Brads Dragonfly with a 2100D Revmaster has a indicated cruise of 140 mph @ 2000 PA and this is average for VW powered Dragonflies. Notice the Dragonfly below has a cruise of 167 mph! Even with an error margin, that is a pretty substantial increase in power! > >>Hi Guys >>On the engines that are running DD at 3500/3700; >>How much boost is being run and what is the prop dia that is used? >>Am I to high if I run 40"/3800 for take off and then 36''/3500 for cruise. >My initial calcs for the wooden prop is a 52dia x54 pitch''. This should >give an acceptable noise level at 0.77Mach tip speed in ISA conditions. > >Back again with further info... Here's some numbers on our Dragonfly, >running EA81T direct drive. > >P. Alt Eng Spd MP IAS TAS >[asl] [rpm] [inHgA] [mph] [mph] >2000 3400 31 155 160 >2000 3700 37 167 172 >4000 3400 28 146 152 >4000 3650 31 154 161 >6000 3500 26 138 151 >7500 3400 23 132 148 >9000 3300 21 127 145 >9000 3550 27 138 158 >11000 3500 25 133 157 >11000 3200 19 115 136 > ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:57:44 -0700 From: "Johnny Galindo" Subject: KR: Looking to buy a KR-2 I am looking to buy a KR-2(s), and I was wondering where a good place was to try and locate some. I am located in TX, so I would prefer to find one here, but I am currently considering one in Wisconsin, so I guess location isn't to big a consideration. I would like as large a selection to pick from as possible. If anyone has any ideas where to start, please let me know. Johnny Johnny Galindo Wk (512)339-5394 Pager - ---------------------------- 1167029@SkyMail.com - or - (800)PAGE-MCI Pin - 1167029 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:59:30 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props At 11:51 AM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: Got to have that reliable engine. ("Relative reliability of a lightbulb" is what my mechanic friend Gary says about single engines. > Yes, but you know what some of us say about twins, "Why give an airplane two chances to kill you" :-) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 12:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges My feeling is that prudent preflight inspections of the bolts, nuts and hinges would preclude the need for cotter pins/castellated nuts. I feel the fiberlock nuts would be more than sufficient to tolerate the torsional loads they will be subjected to. If you have 3 threads showing, the likelihood of loosing a nut in-flight would be less than your chances of winning 7 state lotteries all on the same day. One word of caution, though...use a fresh, unused fiberlock nut for final assembly. Repeated installation and removal of the same fiberlock nut will tend to compromise the locking characteristics of the fiber insert. I'm using fiberlocks on mine. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:44:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: I am finally a KR owner! (no archive) He stated that he wants to build a faster (200 mph) plane. I think he is looking at the Mirage Celerity. Ron Lee At 11:35 97/5/30 -0400, you wrote: >Ron Lee wrote: >> >> Just took possesion of Roy Marsh's KR-2S derivative. >> Ron Lee > >Why did Roy sell it? > >Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany NY > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:52:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Looking to buy a KR-2 (no archive) A few weeks ago I posted a message about three KRs for sale. I no longer have that posting. Trade a plane is a good source. I just got a new copy today and will post any NEW KRs. Mr Dye jusr posted something on one in Dallas (I think). Hopefully he will get back to you. Try this web site for archived postings (up to 18 May as of today). I just got my KR based upon a posting here as well. Ron Lee At 10:57 97/5/30 -0700, you wrote: >I am looking to buy a KR-2(s), and I was wondering where a good place was to >try and locate some. I am located in TX, so I would prefer to find one >here, but I am currently considering one in Wisconsin, so I guess location >isn't to big a consideration. I would like as large a selection to pick >from as possible. If anyone has any ideas where to start, please let me know. > > Johnny > >Johnny Galindo >Wk (512)339-5394 >Pager >---------------------------- >1167029@SkyMail.com - or - >(800)PAGE-MCI Pin - 1167029 > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:41:02 EDT From: anaconda2@juno.com Subject: KR: Re: KR-2 Owners in Dallas area Quick ? off topic... Is there still an airport at Lake Dallas? My uncle used to own the an airport at Lake Dallas. Jeff Lorenz On Thu, 29 May 1997 12:29:25 -0500 "R E Dye" writes: >There's Les Parker in Dallas and Randy Smith at Lake Dallas. Don't >know if >you want to buy a flyer, but there's a KR-2 for sale close to Abilene >for >$12k. E-mail me personally if I can help you. >redye a0009415@airmail.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:59:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges At 12:45 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >My feeling is that prudent preflight inspections of the bolts, nuts and >hinges would preclude the need for cotter pins/castellated nuts. I feel the >fiberlock nuts would be more than sufficient to tolerate the torsional loads >they will be subjected to. Has your aircraft been inspected by the FAA yet? If the inspector sees this, good chance he will make you change them. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:56:52 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges At 12:45 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >My feeling is that prudent preflight inspections of the bolts, nuts and >hinges would preclude the need for cotter pins/castellated nuts. I feel the >fiberlock nuts would be more than sufficient to tolerate the torsional loads >they will be subjected to. Just for kicks I looked up this up in one of the manuals Tony B. produced and it states clearly that a fiber lock or any other locking nut is NOT to be used in any flight control application where rotation is involved, either a cotter pin with castellated nut or clevis type pin with washers and cotter pin is to be used. This is pretty common knowledged in the aviation mechanic world. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Baleco@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges In a message dated 97-05-30 15:07:57 EDT, you write: << Just for kicks I looked up this up in one of the manuals Tony B. produced and it states clearly that a fiber lock or any other locking nut is NOT to be used in any flight control application where rotation is involved, >> Maybe I missed this but you can also use pins. The pinis drilled to which you install a washer then a cotter pin. Essentially these pins are unthreaded AN bolt but usually have a round head. My Maule had them on all the flight control surfaces and my Sonerai has then on the tail. Marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props At 08:59 AM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:51 AM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >Got to have that reliable engine. ("Relative reliability of a lightbulb" is >what my mechanic friend Gary says about single engines. >> > >Yes, but you know what some of us say about twins, "Why give an airplane >two chances to kill you" :-) > According to the fellows on speedvision's Wonderful World of Flying, twins have a worse safety record than singles!! Apparently MOST wont climb on one engine so an overshoot is impossible and having one engine left that is marginal(performance wise) will encourage you to do something silly like try to make that distant airport rather than accept the situation and put her down. Apparently many twins just slow the decent when on one engine. Bigger plane needs TWO hamsters!! Dennis ;-) -No twin exp. whatsoever! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:30:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Baleco@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges In a message dated 97-05-30 17:41:18 EDT, you write: << My feeling is that prudent preflight inspections of the bolts, nuts and >hinges would preclude the need for cotter pins/castellated nuts. I feel the >fiberlock nuts would be more than sufficient to tolerate the torsional loads >they will be subjected to. >> I can't imagine that this aircraft will get signed off with fiber locking nuts. I know it wouldn't in this area. Right or wrong, safe or not, this defies convention and it will probably need to be changed. It should be IMHO. Marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:36:55 -0400 From: Carlos Sa Subject: KR: Revmaster for sale Hello, folks I received this note, maybe someone is interested? Cheers Carlos http://www.axess.com/users/wings - ---------- From: Joe Mount[SMTP:mount@reallink.com] Sent: May 28, 1997 22:51 To: wings@axess.com Subject: Revmaster For Sale Hi! I have a Revmaster engine for sale. I request that you add a link to your site for those interested in saving money on an engine with no flight hours. The site is at "www.reallink.com/mount/". I am interested in (selling) this engine in the next couple months. Thank you, Joe Mount ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 19:08:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Subaru Engine Supplier The July 97 issue of Kitplanes talks about Air-Ryder Mfg, Inc of Alberta who supply Subaru engines (some or all turbo) at prices from $5695 to $11,995. Hp rating from 75 to 160, direct drive or gear reduction. Web site is http://www.air-ryder.com Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:43:29 -0600 From: Nick Davidson Subject: KR: Engine Info Jackpot Found this Engine site with many links. http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/Engines/ Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:37:03 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges At 05:43 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: Maybe I missed this but you can also use pins. The pins >drilled to which you install a washer then a cotter pin. Essentially these >pins are unthreaded AN bolt but usually have a round head. My Maule had them >on all the flight control surfaces and my Sonerai has then on the tail. > > Marty > You missed it because I went on to say you could use clevis pins washers and cotter pin. I guess because these are EXPERIMENTAL aircraft you could use any thing you want, but even though I am building an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft I will try as much as possible to follow the basic guidelines established by real airplane builders, after all they usually obtained all their information the hard way which is one way I can not afford! :-) _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:58:32 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Wood Props and Wing Tanks David, I built my wing tanks per plans and got 11.5 gallons in each wing this coupled with a 5 gal header tank (purposely small) gives me 28 gal fuel capacity. A lot more than I think I need, havent done any weight and balance figures yet... that will probably be in the fall. -- Ross David Moore wrote: > > > Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't I remember hearing wood props > have a habit of shattering at mach speeds, something to do with harmonics? > And this is why designers went to metal props? > Maybe this is why, constant speed and military varialable pitch props, are > all metal or composite? > Also, the talk on wing tanks, Ken Rand built the KR with wing tanks in > mind. My old plans show and 12 gal. in the header for the stock KR-2, and > 60 gal. combination wing and header tanks for the Turbo 2100 KR-2 . Thats > 24 left and 24 right? WOW! > These are plans from Feb. 1977 Ser.#6120 Book 59. Now, you want to talk > CG? Or the ability of the wing skin to support the weight of 15 gallons? > Of course these plans show only 12 Gal. in the header tank on the weight > and balance sheet, so I guess the builder is still pretty much on his own. > > Dave Moore > > David Moore > Hesperia,Calif. 92345 > Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:17:16 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins If you really want to go overkill, buy the castellated nylock nuts which are about $1.10 each. This way if you forget the cotter pin, your still locked. -- Ross JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-29 07:21:15 EDT, you write: > > << Hmmmm...... I hadn't given this alot of thought. The bolt kit comes > with > only nylok-type nuts, which includes the hardware for the hinges. I was > thinking in terms of snugging the nut down against the outer hinge/bushing, > and that it would remain stationary while the inner part of the hinge > rotated > on it's bushings around the bolt. Now that I have been jerked back into the > realm of elementary physics, it dawned on me that the bolt doesn't know/care > which part of the hinge is "moving". >> > > Hi Rick.... thanks for the info on what's in the hinge bolt kit. This > along with > Ross' comment about the 152's method (which I'd forgotten about) and > especiallly Don's comment confirms what I've been thinking. Don's comment > was particularly > in line with my train of thought. My second thought was about fore going the > nylok > nut in favor of a corrosion resistant steel lock nut due to the effects of > the sun and ultraviolet radiation on nylon. Probably a bit of overkill on > the thought process! > > Jim Hayward - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:20:55 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins Steve Bennett wrote: > > I used bolt only. On the elevator there was no slop after 1500 hours > of flight time (3 hinges) the rudder (2 hinges) had to redrill the > top hole to 1/4-28 to take up slop at about 1300 hours. steve This makes sense to me, after looking at the C-152 elevator hinges a lot lately, they use what appears to be AN-3 hardware bolts. I'm thinking that if this works for a C-152, then it probably has a pretty good safety factor for a KR, even though we fly a bit faster. I built mine after the nifty oilite bushing idea, so I'm going to wait for my first 1000 hours or until slop sets in before I take the hinges off to install bushings. By then I expect there will be 100+ hours of KR's flying with the bushings so I can learn how well they hold up too. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:22:51 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-29 05:55:29 EDT, you write: > > << (use drilled head bolts for mounting the hinges to the spars) > > Micheal Mims >> > > I didn't think safety wiring hardware was necessary if one used a locking > nut. If my memory serves me correctly, I thought we just safetied those > pieces of hardware that could come loose from vibrating or turning. I didn't > think there was any mention of safetying in the manual but I'm sure finding > out things about the "manual"! > > Jim Hayward I agree, I don't think safety wire is needed, unless you used the less expensive anchor nuts that are not self locking. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:36:32 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: Tail hinges Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 12:45 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: > >My feeling is that prudent preflight inspections of the bolts, nuts and > >hinges would preclude the need for cotter pins/castellated nuts. I feel the > >fiberlock nuts would be more than sufficient to tolerate the torsional loads > >they will be subjected to. > > Just for kicks I looked up this up in one of the manuals Tony B. produced > and it states clearly that a fiber lock or any other locking nut is NOT to > be used in any flight control application where rotation is involved, > either a cotter pin with castellated nut or clevis type pin with washers and > cotter pin is to be used. This is pretty common knowledged in the aviation > mechanic world. > I agree, the drilled bolts are cheap (.20c more), and the cotter pins are cheap if you buy 100 from ACS. I went back a couple of years ago, and bought all drilled bolts for the rotating parts in my KR project. I have yet to install this hardware as the tail surfaces have been off/on for paint/sanding but we hope to nail things down soon. Although the C-152 uses a nylock nut, I still look at all the nylock nuts on the C-152 with a suspicious eye after reading Tony B's book. Also I expect if I looked closely at the Cessna assembly, I might find that the bolt doesn't rotate or is prevented from rotation through some other method. -- Ross > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:49:50 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props smithr wrote: > > > > > > Even if your engine stops,if you keep your airspeed to landing, and stop in > > more than 20 ft under 60 mph (less g's, ah, might be the 45 mph figure :), > > and you will survive.You may be damaged, but you should survive > > nonetheless. Unless something spikes you in your non-Nerf cockpit :) > > > >Bill Reents > >Unlike you lucky guys in the midwest, here in the northeast we have many mountains and trees to contend with. > Sometimes any field is non-existant. No wonder panic sets in when no field is available. Got to have that > reliable engine. ("Relative reliability of a lightbulb" is what my mechanic friend Gary says about single > engines. > > Bob Smith, KR2S in slow progress, flight training in faster progress We have green stuff here in the Northwest too. I flew over a lot of it, and spent some time trying to guess where I would drop the Cessna if the engine quit. I had to ditch a sailplane once in the desert, and guess what, everyone thinks that desert means sand. Not so... there are trees, brush, and cactus that will do a job on a fabric fuselage. (I picked a good spot, no torn fabric, 100' from a 10' tall cactus). -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:50:52 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props Marty I have a 1835 VW KR-2 with a turbo charger. While experimenting with the intake system I starved the engine of fuel (due to shutting off the electric fuel pump and discovering the gravity flow at full power wasn't sufficient). The engine continued to windmill and started up as soon as I switched the fuel pump back on. At the time the engine quit I was passing through 155 mph and the speed was still increasing. I estimate the engine restarted with in 5 seconds of quiting, almost before I could get really concerned. Hope this is of some interest. Parley Byington On 27 May 97 at 6:35, Baleco@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-05-27 01:11:18 EDT, you write: > > << but a 52" prop will supposedly stop turning in flight if the engine stalls > even briefly, so starter-less operation isn't as safe. Does anyone know how > big a prop has to be to windmill, and could such a prop be run efficiently > on > a KR? >> > > With all the concerns of engine stoppage and the > lengths some amoung us plan to go to try to prevent this, surely there have > been many VW engine inflight stopages. Has anyone really had the engine quit > in flight and did the prop windmill? > > Marty > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:00:42 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Project Update Here is a project update from the KR factory in my garage... Last weekend I sprayed my 2nd coat of System III primer (top half of the plane). Amazing what lots of sanding does in between coats. The first coat may have been a bit premature as the System III is not a sanding primer surfacer, but I wanted to see how much work I had left. After coat #2 I did some final sanding with 220 grit, and am preparing for the FINAL primer coat, at least on the top part of the plane... Now I've got to get on my back and clean the bottom of the plane. Since this seemed like work, I drove 92 miles to Portland this morning and picked up some AN5H-33 prop bolts, well guess what, I guessed wrong on the Grip length. I'm about 1/8 to 1/4 too long. I'm thinking its a bad idea to use washers here due to the expansion and compression that can occur. Sooo, I will look up and decide what Prop bolts I REALLY wanted. Also I drilled and rivited all the anchor nuts for the spinner. I should have done this earlier, as it was just sitting on the prop and it fell off and got a dent, which I got to pound out. I got a 18" Aeroquip fuel assembly for the run from the gascolator to the Ellison, this was about $60 for a custom hose with firesleve. I needed a 90 deg bend at the Ellision, so I chose to buy an AN Elbow fitting. Guess what, the fitting from Ellison has a nifty fuel screen in it, and well, I can't use the AN elbow. Calling Ellison I find that the elbow for the carb which includes a finger screen is $45. I should have spent another $10-20 and got the 90 deg fitting on my custom hose... I will be pondering my throttle cable mounting assy. Also the Great Plains Intake manifold appears to need some mechanical support as the only support is the hoses to the down runners. I would like to kill two birds with one stone here. If anyone has a clue about this send pictures! -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 97 8:43:57 ÿÿÿ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: Re: KR: Wood Props and Wing Tanks David and Ross talk about carrying 28 gal and 60 gal of gas. WOW! puts it lightly. Consider empty weight of 500lbs, pilot and passenger of 300lbs; this is a zero fuel weight of 800 lbs. Gross +10% is 990 lbs; this leaves a total of 190lbs or 32gal for gas. 32gal @ a fuel consumption of 6gph = a touch over 5hrs in a KR2 2 to 3 hrs in a KR2, I think is pushing it or am I missing something here Steve in SA - ---------- From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] To: Cc: Subject: Re: KR: Wood Props and Wing Tanks Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 9:58PM David, I built my wing tanks per plans and got 11.5 gallons in each wing this coupled with a 5 gal header tank (purposely small) gives me 28 gal fuel capacity. A lot more than I think I need, havent done any weight and balance figures yet... that will probably be in the fall. -- Ross David Moore wrote: > > > Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't I remember hearing wood props > have a habit of shattering at mach speeds, something to do with harmonics? > And this is why designers went to metal props? > Maybe this is why, constant speed and military varialable pitch props, are > all metal or composite? > Also, the talk on wing tanks, Ken Rand built the KR with wing tanks in > mind. My old plans show and 12 gal. in the header for the stock KR-2, and > 60 gal. combination wing and header tanks for the Turbo 2100 KR-2 . Thats > 24 left and 24 right? WOW! > These are plans from Feb. 1977 Ser.#6120 Book 59. Now, you want to talk > CG? Or the ability of the wing skin to support the weight of 15 gallons? > Of course these plans show only 12 Gal. in the header tank on the weight > and balance sheet, so I guess the builder is still pretty much on his own. > > Dave Moore > > David Moore > Hesperia,Calif. 92345 > Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #25 ****************************