From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #46 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Sunday, June 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 046 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:48:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Aviation Animal! At 11:25 PM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: >Just for starters, see if you can find the October, 1983 issue of SPORT >AVIATION. It features the BEACHNER V-8 Special. This guy took the basic KR concept and expanded it into a better aircraft It reeks with P-51B/D, FW-190, ME-109, Etc. In your defense, WAR was not the first to come up with the idea. > >If you don't have the time to find this issue/article, send me your mailing >address and I will forward a copy of it to you. > Thanks I will look it up, if I cant find it here is my mailing address 466 Stanford Ct Irvine Ca 92612 See you in Perry! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:08:54 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: No, it's an airplane... (humor) At 13:20 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >Here's a copy of the sign I just hung on the front of my fuselage. Some of >you may find it useful...... ;-) > >Cheers! >Rick Junkin >Attachment Converted: "c:\intell\eudora\attach\NOTBOAT.DOC" > For those of you less Microsoft averse than me, you might be able to see this with some version of write or word ( but certainly not Word vn 2 ) Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:09:00 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) brian whatcott wrote: > Anisotropic materials like spruce are characterized by mucho strength > properties, of which the one you might be specifying is Fbp fiber stress > at the proportional limit. > But wood exhibits quite a bit of creep - so the usual strength of > materials properties that are quoted are for the one-minute test, or > thereabouts... > You are correct. I was going from memory, that is the second thing that goes as you age, I forget what the first is. A much better number to use would be compressive strength at the proportional limit as 3530 psi and tensile at the proportional limit as 5300 psi. I also pulled out my calc notes and found the following: Assuming a standard KR2S fuselage, a 200# engine, 15 gallons in a header tank, CG in the middle of the range, and a tail load to balance, and a +6 G load factor. The longerons at the tail are stressed at approx 400 psi. The bottom longeron at the main spar is stressed at approx 4900 psi in compression. This is why there is an additional plywood plate on the -2S at the main spar as reinforcement. The top longeron at the main spar is stressed at approx 2900 psi The longerons at the firewall are stressed at approx 2000 psi This is a very simplistic analysis and does not include a lot of other parameters and loadings. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va (Yes, all dirt roads do lead to Bumpass) donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: RDefrain@aol.com Subject: KR: kr parts for sale The parts and myself are located in central Pa. I am very close to N13 Bloomsburg, the airport is only about 3 mile from my house. If your interested in the plans and wood e-mail rdefrain@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:18:02 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: NTSB Accident Database I received over thirty requests for the NTSB accident reports on KR type A/C. I apologize that I was not able to send them out. My system did not lend itself to transmitting large files. I am praying to the Netscape gods on a 386 machine that hates new software. I was able to break the file up into smaller blocks and I sent it to Rick Junkin, EagleGator@aol.com. He is the guy writing the excellent flight test plan. If things work out, he will be loading the accident file with his test plan. I will continue to review the NTSB web site at regular intervals and send the relavant ones to him. Once again, sorry for not being able to send the info out individually. It does make for interesting reading. - -- Don Reid Bumpass (Careful how you say that), Va. donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:28:20 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR: Fixing my mistakes I just got done splicing more material on the aft end of the longerons. I decided to not only splice in the 14 inches that I forgot, but also an extra 10 inches. This makes it 24 inches longer than the standard KR-2. I decided on 10 extra inches because Michael Mims recomended adding 7 inches and Mark Langford in the past has recomended adding 24 inches to the standard KR-2. =20 I will be adding the uprights and gussetts later tonight or tomorrow and then I will get started on the other side. If all goes well I hope to begin framing up the fuselage later next week or next weekend. Thanks to everyone for their opinions. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK Widened & stretched KR-2s=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:58:29 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) At 23:09 6/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >brian whatcott wrote: > >> Anisotropic materials like spruce are characterized by mucho strength >> properties, of which the one you might be specifying is Fbp fiber stress ... >A much better number to use would be compressive strength at the >proportional limit as 3530 psi and tensile at the proportional limit as >5300 psi. ... >The longerons at the tail are stressed at approx 400 psi. >The bottom longeron at the main spar is stressed at approx 4900 psi in >compression. This is why there is an additional plywood plate on the -2S >at the main spar as reinforcement. ... >Don Reid >Bumpass, Va Ah: I see you are no less than what you claim to be: this is the goods I wanted to summon up. Attaboy! (I wish you shared your stuff more often with us.) Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:17:43 -0700 From: R Covington Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) This might be a big dummy suggestion, but if you built it like it is, you might end up with a very nice CG compared to a normal KR. You can change the tail for added stability. On the other hand, if you can keep the contours right along the bottom, I don't see why you can't slice that extra bay in. Too bad gussets are such a pain to be a major reason not to start over, I have thought about this too at times when I find things off a hair here and there. Lucky you did this with a 2S! There was a guy in one newsletter who built a KR lacking one bay, and he discovered this after it was boated, maybe when ready to fly! :) Not sure of the exact stage. Robert Covington >Hi everyone! > >I had finally completed the fuselage sides and was preparing to layout >the fuselage on the workbench so that I could begin building the boat. > >I made some calculations about where to place the fuselage side and I >placed it on the bench and something just wasn't right! The aft end >of the side should have been hanging off the end of the bench but it >was about 14 inches too short. I started checking everything and >discovered that I had left out one of the 14 inch bays!!!! > >I don't really know what to do. I know that I could fix my errors on >the existing sides. My wife suggested just starting over and building >new sides. I have even contemplated just leaving them the way they >are. That would mean that I would have a normal length KR-2 except >for 2 extra inches in the front. I would really like to know what >other people think about this. > >Jeffrey Scott - Have you flown in any standard KR-2's? If so, did you >notice much difference with the extra length in the rear of your >fuselage when you flew your KR-2? How much of anything did it do to >the pitch sensitivity? > >I really don't feel like building new fuselage sides, but I just don't >know what to do. I just can't believe that I overlooked that 14 >inches. > > >Thanks, > >Brian J Bland >Claremore, OK >Widened KR-2/KR-2s???? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:00:20 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Surplus parts Just got back from a trip to the surplus parts store. Looks like I picked up about $120 worth of stuff for $23!! Woo Hoo! Just thought I would share this huge price cutting adventure with everyone! :-) Here is what I found; All the required turn-buckles, pulleys, adel clamps, and misc. bolts that AS&S didn't have. If any of you on the west coast are within driving distance of Chino I would recommend you bring your VISA because G&J doesn't take any card from American Express! Their address and phone numbers are located on my cooling system page if anyone is interested. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:44:00 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) At 23:09 6/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >The bottom longeron at the main spar is stressed at approx 4900 psi in >compression. This is why there is an additional plywood plate on the -2S >at the main spar as reinforcement. >The top longeron at the main spar is stressed at approx 2900 psi >The longerons at the firewall are stressed at approx 2000 psi > ... >Don Reid I forgot to mention - this kind of stress pattern seems to go with the low wing sport plane; the Teenie 2 designer beefed up this area on his aluminum creation - and a cross brace on the first bottom panel behind the wing to reduce oil canning... The landing bump is one design corner, apparently. Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:51:56 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Wing Spar Squareness Jim, I believe I used 3/32 plywood shims and did several diagnoal measurements to solve this problem. Sanding the vertical uprights a bit might also give you some fine tuning. -- Ross JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > I've encountered a little problem. I must have done something wrong when > jigging the fuselage sides. I found that while installing the main spar and > checking the square of the elevator spar and wing spar referenced to the > firewall I found the right side to be 1/8" more aft than the left side. > Since it's not epoxied in place yet, I want to try and fix this. I was > thinking of "splitting the difference" by sanding away 1/16" on the aft side > of the left wing spar fuselage opening and 1/16" on the forward side of the > right wing spar fuselage opening then shimming in place to get the spar to > set square to the firewall. The secondary spar is also off about the same > amount but not quite as bad. Any comments or better ideas would be > appreciated. > > Jim Hayward - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:53:47 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: weight of feather-fll Peter Hudson wrote: > > Hi gang, > > So I finished filling and sanding my stbd owp. I'm kinda tired today... what is a stbd owp? Starboard Outer Wing Panel? -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:03:24 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Wing Tank Gauge Micheal Mims wrote: > > What type of fuel tank gauge has worked in the wing tanks? What kind of > gauge are the people without electrical systems been using? I am using a > regular sight type gauge on my main tank but I dont think this will work on > the aux tank (6 or 7 gal tank in the right stub).I have purchased the Capacatence fuel probes through Sky-Sports. You can get these from Wicks, ACS or Sky Sports. Use the bendable type and bend down then up at an angle. I haven't checked the sending units for reliability yet, but will soon. The idea I liked was no moving parts to break or wear or stick. The senders are about $70-80 each and can be purchased in varying lengths, and connected in series if necessary for a multi tank system on one gague for example. I have a dual gague for each wing tank. > I think by regulation we have to have a gauge on each tank or I would just > blow it off. Yep, but they could be sight gagues... - -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:39:05 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Wing Tank Gauge Ron Lee wrote: > > Is there some way to legally call that stub tank something such that a gauge > is not required? > > Ron Lee How about making it a baggage pod? :) - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:45:01 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Revmaster for sale JOHN F. ESCH wrote: > > There is a Revmaster for sale that came out of Molt Taylor's Bullet. > The engine is approx. 10 years old and has been idle for about 5 to 6 years and > also has 50 to 60 hours on it. > The engine comes with mount, alternator, and exhaust and is in pusher > configuration. The price they are asking for it is $2500. Bruce is the > gentleman in charge of selling this engine and he works for the Oregon Air and > Space Museum. His number is 541-942-1173. > I would go look at but I haven't cleaned out my garage yet to start building my > KR-2S. > > John F. Esch > 102702,2712@compuserve.com I looked at it and it looks pretty good. However, I already have my Great Plains 1835cc engine on my KR... did I mention sanding? -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:46:41 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Full mailboxes Just a note... if you go away for a bit, and don't check your email I occasionally get bounced messages indicating a full mailbox. When this happens, I now move subscribers from KRNET-L to KRNET-L-DIGEST which sends fewer email. If this happens to you, and you want to be moved back to KRNET-L drop me a line, and I will fix you up. This way if you go on vacation I can move you to the standby list, and my mailbox doesn't keep overflowing. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:50:08 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Revmaster for sale Dave, I would contact the person at the Oregon Museum. They tell school kits that the Molt Taylor Bullet is a paper mache' airplane so they may know more about the TPG process. The number is in the post below. Regards -- Ross David M. Gargasz wrote: > > JOHN F. ESCH wrote: > > > > There is a Revmaster for sale that came out of Molt Taylor's Bullet. > > The engine is approx. 10 years old and has been idle for about 5 to 6 years and > > also has 50 to 60 hours on it. > > The engine comes with mount, alternator, and exhaust and is in pusher > > configuration. The price they are asking for it is $2500. Bruce is the > > gentleman in charge of selling this engine and he works for the Oregon Air and > > Space Museum. His number is 541-942-1173. > > I would go look at but I haven't cleaned out my garage yet to start building my > > KR-2S. > > > > John F. Esch > > 102702,2712@compuserve.com > > Hi John, > Iv tried to get my hands on Molt Taylors design criteria on the TPG > system, the kraft paper and glass composite system. I'd like to adapt > its use in leiu of plywd on the kr2 boat, the bullet came in the 600 lb. > wieght range, the tpg system adapted to the kr2 would lighten up the > finished product. Any information as to the TPG system would be very > much appreciated, thank you! > Gene Gargasz % dave@erienet.net - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:58:41 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Revmaster for sale On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:51:37 -0700, you wrote: >Hi John, >Iv tried to get my hands on Molt Taylors design criteria on the TPG >system, the kraft paper and glass composite system. I'd like to adapt >its use in leiu of plywd on the kr2 boat, the bullet came in the 600 lb. >wieght range, the tpg system adapted to the kr2 would lighten up the >finished product. Any information as to the TPG system would be very >much appreciated, thank you! >Gene Gargasz % dave@erienet.net Gene, Have you read Composite Construction For Homebuilt Aircraft by Jack Lambie? It has a chapter on the TPG system. I don't know for sure what you are looking for but it discusses this system. If you haven't read this book and want to read what it has to say let me know and I will send you a copy or just type it up and e--mail it to you. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK Widened & stretched KR-2s (KR-2ss?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:02:19 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Flight report(s) BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > > Jeff: > > Good report and I think you are doing a service for all of us who follow > behind you. Please keep up the reports. The information is valuable. I'm > looking forward to seeing you again at the next gathering. I need my KRNet > bull seesion fix... > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com Jeff, Thanks for the flight reports. Can you also let me know how many hours you have and what you did to prepare for your flight. I'm considering lining up a Flight Advisor and coming up with some training... I have 67 hours in C-152's and Pipers, and 68 glider flights (20 years ago), so I think I qualify as a LOW TIME pilot.... looking to come up with some type of training plan for the next year or so. I'm still planning on attending this years KR gathering. I wanted to do OSHKOSH too, but well... other family demands got in the way... the flight arrangements for the vacation became too complex and $$$. - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:15:03 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance Micheal Mims wrote: > > Hello Everyone, I got a response from the EAA concerning the maintenance > thing, according to them, the "do anything you want" (except annual > inspection) crew wins! If this is true (and I wish every FSDO thought so), > I have known and met a lot of misinformed people throughout my dealings with > the homebuilt movement (15 years) I am keeping a copy of this to send to my > local FSDO to get his response. There is a .txt file attached to this email. > > Ross, sorry for the attachment but I think everyone would want this. > Mike, No problem about the attachment. If its < 40,000 characters I don't ever mind. Above 40,000 chars, I get bounced emails. It occurs to me (now that I'm fresh on the FARS for my check ride), that although an A&P can do a 100 hour inspection (rental aircraft & commercial stuff), only an A&P with "Inspection Authorization" (IA) can do an annual inspection. So having your repairman certificate is a kinda cool thing. On the other hand, having a A&P with Inspection Authority come by and comment on my plane every now and then might be a good idea too.... I've still got to get my private ticket, then figure out what to do next, before I fly my KR... hopefully I get done with the sanding in the meantime. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:29:50 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: KRnet * * * help wanted * * * Beechwings@aol.com wrote: > > Hi folks! I'm new to the group. My name is Scott Morgan. I live in Houston > and would like to get some information from the group if possible. > > 1. Is there a builders presence in this area ? I live in Oregon, so I can't help there... but there are some Texans in the KR bunch. > 2. Can anyone provide me with some cost analysis on building from scratch > versus buying kit parts from RR. Well buy the wing attach fittings from RR. I built mine. I have several large paperweights that look like wing attach fittings lying around. I saved $$$, but the additional project time was about 18 months while I made enough fittings for 3 KR-2's. It depends on you skill and tool inventory, if you have the tools and the time, you can save some money. However there are so many things you have to do from scratch anyway, I recommend that you buy what RR offers to save build time. I bought the flap handle assy, and the control stick. I also bought the stock KR canopy. A really good component breakdown is available in the Wicks Aircraft catalog, then you can buy as you go. > 3. What engine options do I really have.KR2 VW 1835cc VW 2180cc Contental 65HP Corvair? KR2-S Possibly the above + Subaru EA81 I think the Subaru EA-81 is a great option, but I have a VW. Mainly as there are not too many technical packages for those who want to fab up their own mounts cooling assy's etc. I would check into this before commiting. Great Plains Aircraft has a terrific catalog for VW components. This is a great way to size up the task of building the firewall forward of the VW. It appears that a Reduction drive for the Soobs is not required for a KR application, but you still need to find a supplier for the prop hub, or have this machined yourself. > 4. What are some realistic build times. I'm at 800+ hours that I have logged in my construction log. I probably have about 1000 or so by now, I haven't tracked the sanding painting time and a few months of building the wing attach fittings etc. This has taken me from 1988 to the present, with two years where I didn't work on the project at all. It's a LOT of fun and rewarding, but building a kitplane can be a long haul project if you have to find time on the weekends. I travel a lot these days and evenings are shot for building. Building a kit actually becomes much more of a "lifestyle" change than I ever expected. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:38:31 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Center Consoles I have thought about a center console, but have posponed/scrapped the idea since I didn't widen the fuselage significantly (or at all). I'd have to measure to be sure. At any way, I wanted a center post for the instrument panel, but found I needed to move the retract handle, and this meant no clearance for a center post which would have been support for a console. Now if I someday move to a fixed gear.... -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:45:07 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Reverse Message Order (NO ARCHIVE) EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, folks - > > Am I the only one getting the responses to messages before the original > message shows up? Every time I get my mail, I get someone's response to > someone else's post that I haven't seen yet, and then the original post shows > up later in the day, if not the next day..... Is there some kind of > conspiracy going on here? And here I thought that someone was playing a trick on the KRNET administrator? This happens to me. I get replys to KRNET email BEFORE I get the post. I will check into this. I suspect it could be somthing as simple as timezone stamps on emails where the original post was from a later time zone than the replies, and the messages get downloaded in order by timestamp. Well, it's a far fetched theory, but it might work. Can someone explain the small crop circles in my backyard? They are about the size of my dog's doghouse, so I expect that alien pets are invading my back yard the day after I mow the lawn. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:47:02 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Builder locations smithr wrote: > > In reading KRnet I frequently wonder where some of you are located. I > would appreciate it if you would attach your city and state to your > signature at the end of the mail every once in a while so we know where > you are. Some already do this. just a suggestion. > > Bob Smith, Albany, NY Nice idea... Ross Youngblod, Corvallis Oregon - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:53:59 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: KR-51/builders' locations Kerry, I've seen that book. It's at my local library. Can't remember the title though. -- Ross Kerry Miller wrote: > > I've been pretty quiet for a while, so here's my excuse to put in my $.02 > worth. I have an old paperback book somewhere (I forget the title, I'll > look it up if anybody cares) which compares about a hundred different > homebuilt designs. It has a picture of a KR-1 with a canopy similar to the > early model Mustangs, not the bubble canopy like the "D" model. It even has > the D-Day stripes. Looks a lot like the older Mustangs. With a little foam > and glass, maybe a small dummy belly scoop... > > Ok, here's my world-famous signature file with location and all! > Kerry > > Kerry Miller, WD5ABC "They that give up essential liberty > 8991 FM 35 to obtain a little temporary safety > Royse City, TX 75189-4849 deserve neither liberty nor safety." > www.flash.net/~kmiller Benjamin Franklin, 1759 - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:57:31 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) Brian Bland wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > I had finally completed the fuselage sides and was preparing to layout > the fuselage on the workbench so that I could begin building the boat. > > I made some calculations about where to place the fuselage side and I > placed it on the bench and something just wasn't right! The aft end > of the side should have been hanging off the end of the bench but it > was about 14 inches too short. I started checking everything and > discovered that I had left out one of the 14 inch bays!!!! > > I don't really know what to do. I know that I could fix my errors on > the existing sides. My wife suggested just starting over and building > new sides. I have even contemplated just leaving them the way they > are. That would mean that I would have a normal length KR-2 except > for 2 extra inches in the front. I would really like to know what > other people think about this. > > Jeffrey Scott - Have you flown in any standard KR-2's? If so, did you > notice much difference with the extra length in the rear of your > fuselage when you flew your KR-2? How much of anything did it do to > the pitch sensitivity? > > I really don't feel like building new fuselage sides, but I just don't > know what to do. I just can't believe that I overlooked that 14 > inches. > > Thanks, > > Brian J Bland > Claremore, OK > Widened KR-2/KR-2s???? Brian, I would locate the missing bay, and cut the vertical members aft of it, and build some new ones. 5/8" spruce although somewhat like gold in expense, isn't that expensive. The hard part will be cutting, but once you start building you will feel better. I had to cut out my aft spar which I installed 1/2" out, I was delayed by six months or less, but felt much better once I was in the repair phase. Now I know I did it right. Just my 2 cents worth. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:05:34 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 03:49 AM 6/21/97 GMT, you wrote: > >Thanks Micheal! > > > >I figured that I could take the sides apart and splice in the > >additional length. I do not see any reason why I couldn't splice the > >longerons and it would allow me to add the additonal 7 inches like you > >suggested. It would also save me several hours of construction and > >quite a few hours of making all of the gussetts over. I am extremely > >thankful that I decided to add the plywood after I get the fuselage > >boxed up. > > > > Make sure you follow proper splicing techniques and there shouldnt be any > problems. It seems that some builders are a little nervous about splicing > the longerons so maybe you should call Janette at RR to ask if its OK, or > better yet maybe a EAA wood guru. I am no expert but I don't see what all > the ruckus is considering spars used to be spliced (scarfed) . The glue > joint should be stronger than the original piece of wood anyway. Any other > input? > At one time (1988) it was difficult to obtain spruce and the upper longerons supplied in the RR kits required a scarf joint to obtain the required length. I would recommend that this joint be made in the area where the doubler longeron was present, but I don't know if that is absolutely necessary. I just lucked out and purchased a spruce kit from a person who got it from another hopeful KR builder and it was still in it's original Wicks crates several years old! So I never had to make the scarf. - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:06:28 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 2 Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 7] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------5E5239F065F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit approved - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm - --------------5E5239F065F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by greta.teleport.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA14739; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:30:28 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199706210430.VAA14739@greta.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 2 Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 7 X-UIDL: d4dc78d989c2e8b7ae77af1b7c1f5e97 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 >From krnet-l-owner Fri Jun 20 21:30:26 1997 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by greta.teleport.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14732 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA16378 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:30:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ppp-206-170-70-212.irvn11.pacbell.net(206.170.70.212) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma015512; Fri Jun 20 23:21:45 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970621041757.0075e95c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mimsmand@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:17:57 -0700 To: krnet-l@teleport.com From: Micheal Mims Subject: A Magazine to consider My wife picked up a Magazine that I think everyone building a KR would benefit from. I plan to subscribe right away! Its called "Wooden Boat" the magazine from wooden boat owners, builders, and designers. I have just skimmed through it but have already learned more from this one issue that will help in the construction of my KR than any other magazine I have read! To subscribe send your money to: WoodenBoat Subscription Dept. PO Box 54767 Boulder CO 80323-4767 Its $27.00 a year. It seems that my wife has always wanted a Chris-Craft mahogany runabout, after seeing me in action with spruce I guess she has plans for me and my garage after the KR is finished! I guess the Subaru engines are finding their way into homebuilt boats these days! There is a picture or two of the larger (EJ-22?) Soob installed in a 20 footer. PS My wife just walked in as I was typing and asked if I like that magazine, I said its great and she said good because I sent for the subscription today! Man am I lucky or what!!!?? _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand - --------------5E5239F065F-- ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jun 97 03:03:22 EDT From: "JOHN F. ESCH" <102702.2712@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: KR: Full mailboxes Message text written by INTERNET:krnet-l@teleport.com >This way if you go on vacation< Vacation? You went on vacation with an almost finished airplane? John F. Esch jesch@cyberhighway.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 09:20:27 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: Really Stupid Mistake (Major Mistake) >I am not nervous at all about splicing the longerons. I am an A&P and >I have read what the FAA says about splicing and I don't see why it >would hurt to do it. The longerons will be reinforced with the >plywood on the outside anyway. I have experimented with splices on >the 5/8" square material and I don't see anything wrong with it. The >splice is definitely stronger than the wood. > >Well I will get to work this weekend on fixing the sides and hopefully >will be able to start framing up the boat early next week. > >Thanks for your time and support!! > >Brian J Bland >Claremore, OK > Glad to see you're gonna fix it. It's too early in the program to accept such a compromise. Did this come down to not catching a detail in the transfer of info from the KR2S suppliment back to the stock plans? Don't feel bad. You got your mistake out early. We all run into problems. Some self induced, some not. I just spent several weeks of on/off work laminating a rudder, vertical fin and dorsal fin for a Fisher Horizon 2. One of the last operations is to seperately slot the rudder and fin spars to accept the hinges on the centerline. Had I blindly followed the plans both spars would have been ruined because the positions shown were not aligned and in fact the one position was impossible, period. I got lucky and caught it but if I didn't you can imagine the noises the neighbors would have been hearing coming from my garage! Marty Lawrenceburg, Indiana Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:08:02 -0400 From: "Alan Moat" Subject: KR: crossection of upper longeron I have recently finished my bottom skin installation. According to the manual I worked the crossection to give a good fit to the plywood. Does this also have to be done to the upper longerons for the shearwebs at the firewall and at Station I ? If I do have to work the crossection do I do the entire length of the fuselage? Thank you for the help. Alan Moat taom@randomc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:25:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: crossection of upper longeron At 12:08 PM 6/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >I have recently finished my bottom skin installation. According to the >manual I worked the crossection to give a good fit to the plywood. > > Does this also have to be done to the upper longerons for the shearwebs at >the firewall and at Station I ? > Yes I did the area close to the firewall and the shearweb location behind the seat back. I would NOT do the entire upper longeron because the foaming and glassing process is easy enough to custom fit and you would be removing some of the structural properties of the top longeron. I used a long 2 x 2 with 80 grit self adhesive sandpaper to work the area flat. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:42:02 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance > If any major modifications are done a letter must be submitted >to the FAA ( Local FSDO) stating the mod and your projected effect on >aircraft performance. Although after review the FAA could say sorry, this >change will require another test period so no passengers for the next xx >hours! > > My local FSDO doesn't buy the "do what you want" clause in any case so by >submitting your letter to him could cause you to get into all kinds of red >tape and losing the aircrafts certification while its cleared up! >Unfortunately its another case of "Just do it and don't tell the FAA" Of course, it's probably also true that if you didn't build the plane (or one like it), you're probably not competent to make major modifications to a plane someone else built. A no-passenger test period after a modification is a good idea whether you built it or not. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:15:31 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Full mailboxes JOHN F. ESCH wrote: > > Message text written by INTERNET:krnet-l@teleport.com > >This way if you go on vacation< > > Vacation? You went on vacation with an almost finished airplane? > No but a couple of AOLers did, and I get back from 4 days out of town on business to 624 email messages about 30% were mailbox full. I've also got a couple of international destinations too... -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #46 ****************************