From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 11:23 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n077' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #77 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Monday, August 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 077 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 01:23:16 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff > Well in my research on the air cooled VW I have come to a few >conclusions, after reading 200+ accident reports covering VW >powered aircraft . . . So based on those two examples I know this >engine can be made reliable! >And the third thing, COOLING!! Why cant we use the type 2 cooling fan > and a plenum made from epoxy and glass or carbon graphite? This is >what Porsche did with the Mooney and it worked just fine. A small NACA >duct under the engine (nice high pressure area) with a duct that feeds air >up and into the fan inlet (faces the firewall) would work great. Sure a little >more weight but we can extract more HP now because the cooling issue is >gone and our crank aint gona break! If VW knew they were going to put their air-cooled engine in the FRONT of a vehicle that was going 140-odd miles an hour with a spinning propeller blowing air backwards, do you think they even would have bothered to HAVE a horsepower-robbing fan inside the hood? The OEM design had to use a fan because the engine was in the back where natural ventilation wasn't practical and the car wouldn't be moving fast enough anyway. But on an airplane, I don't see any reason not to use the "fan" you've already got out there. VW hotrodders use "power pulleys" to slow the fan down on Type I engines so it won't waste so much horsepower, but we don't have to waste any. I believe the Porsche/Mooney design was quickly dropped when it was found to be overweight and underpowered compared to a standard aircraft engine, so if it's proof of anything, I think it might be evidence against of the value of fans. Your other comments on OEM parts make sense, where they're not heavier. Steve Bennett said on here once that quite a few planes fly behind the standard VW coil ignition. But if you're arranging to have room on top for a fuel pump, why not an OEM Solex carb too? (or two of them, like the high-powered VW's). Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 04:58:09 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR: Perry Airport Information =4622 - PERRY MUNI AIRPORT PERRY, OK Okay everyone. Here is the information for the Perry airport. Sorry Ron only one active runway. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/9904 AIRPORT INFORMATION CURRENT AS OF 17 JULY 1997 Location Lat/Long: 36-23-08.145N / 097-16-37.959W (36.3855958 / 97.2772108) Elevation: 1002 ft. / 305.4 m (surveyed)=20 Variation: 06E (1995)=20 From city: 5 miles N of PERRY, OK=20 County: NOBLE=20 Ownership and Use Ownership: Publicly-owned Use: Open to the public Owner: CITY OF PERRY Manager: DON BETCHAN CITY HALL CITY HALL DRAWER 798 PERRY OK 73077 PERRY OK 73077 Phone: 405-336-4241 Phone: 405-336-4001 Airport Operations Sectional chart: WICHITA=20 Control tower: no=20 ARTCC: KANSAS CITY CENTER=20 FSS: MC ALESTER FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF] NOTAMs facility: MLC (NOTAM-D service available)=20 Attendance: ALL/ALL/ALL=20 Segmented circle: yes=20 Airspace analysis: NOT ANALYZED, ESTAB PRIOR TO 1959.=20 Lights: DUSK-DAWN ACTVT MIRL RY 17/35 - CTAF.=20 Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)=20 Landing fee: no=20 Airline operations: not certified under FAR Part 139=20 Int'l operations: not permitted=20 Airport Communications CTAF: 122.8=20 UNICOM: 122.8=20 APCH/DEP SERVICE PROVIDED BY KANSAS CITY ARTCC ON FREQS 127.8/319.1 (PONCA CITY RCAG).=20 Radio aids to navigate to the Airport VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var ------------------- ----------------------- ------ --- SWOr309/13.5 STILLWATER VOR/DME 108.40 07E PERr189/22.4 PIONEER VORTAC 113.20 06E ODGr080/24.7 WOODRING VOR/DME 109.00 08E ENDr077/31.1 VANCE VORTAC 115.40 09E NDB name Hdg/Dist Freq Var ID -------------------------- -------- ---- --- ------------------- LOGAN COUNTY 005/33.1 326 07E LCY .-.. -.-. -.-- Airport Services Fuel available: A 100LL=20 Airframe service: MAJOR=20 Powerplant service: MAJOR=20 Bottled oxygen: NONE=20 Airport Operational Statistics Aircraft based on the field: 14 Aircraft operations per year: 4100 Single engine airplanes: 14 Local general aviation: 3000 Transient general aviation: 1000 Military: 100 Runway Information Runway 17/35 Dimensions: 5098 x 75 ft. / 1554 x 23 m Surface: asphalt, in good condition=20 Runway edge lights: medium intensity=20 RUNWAY 17 RUNWAY 35 Traffic pattern: left left Runway heading: 174 magnetic, 180 true 354 magnetic, 360 true=20 Markings: nonprecision instrument basic=20 Markings condition: good good=20 Latitude: 36-23-33.331N 36-22-42.922N Longitude: 097-16-38.131W 097-16-37.829W=20 Elevation: 973.0 ft. 1000.0 ft.=20 Threshold crossing height: 40 ft. AGL 40 ft. AGL=20 Glide path angle: 3.00 degrees 3.00 degrees=20 Visual slope indicator: pulsating/steady pulsating/steady burning VASI on left burning VASI on left=20 Runway end identifier lights: yes yes=20 Displaced threshold: no no=20 Touchdown point: no no=20 Obstructions: NONE NONE=20 Remarks A110-1 CARETAKER ON ARPT - EUGENE APPLEBAUM.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 06:27:34 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering Jeff, I am sorry. Your transmission was unclear. Terrible static here! IT is a thought. Need to assess logistics. Unfortunately, Meadowlake may not be proprly equipped for such an event. sigh. Ron At 22:27 97/8/17 -0600, you wrote: >Gee, Ron. Now you know there is a potential builder/passenger out there. > Sounds to me like you, Jane and I need to organize a KR builders, >fliers, flight breakfast at Meadowlake some nice morning this fall. We >can get together to repeat all of our usual lies. :o) > >If we can get John and Jane flying, we'll have a major KR presence here >in the Rockies. What do you say, KR Gathering for Meadowlake in '98. >I'll nominate you to host. Heck, we can all stay at your place since you >live right next to the airport. You've got room for a couple of hundred >don't you? > >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:47:58 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? Hi Ron, Ron Lee wrote: > > I just went through the document that Randy sent me and it is > closer to a KR version. If the folks working on one have not progressed > far and would like my revised version, I will be happy to send it. > > It is in Windows Write format. The biggest deficiencies are that the > CG figures/info , electrical schematic need to be revised and the preflight > checklist is probably a bit out of order. It is also currently geared > towards a taildragger but with little additional words could work for > trikes as well. > > Also, values need to be verified. > > If interested, I will forward a Zipped copy. > > Ron Lee Hi Ron, I would like to have a copy. Thanks, Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:14:54 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering I have a set of plans for the straight KR-2 for sale. They are from 1989 and do have a serial number. I just can't get my other projects out of the way to get started. The Sonerai is coming in for Winter work. Figure it'll take a couple months-you know what that means, probably won't get it back together for next season! $100 postage paid. Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:01:48 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff At 01:23 AM 8/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >I believe the Porsche/Mooney design was quickly dropped when it was found to >be overweight and underpowered compared to a standard aircraft engine, so if >it's proof of anything, I think it might be evidence against of the value of >fans. The downfall of the Porsche engine was cost. After all was said and done the Porsche engine cost more than the Lyc or Cont. it replaced. I think it was shy on HP but in my opinion it was a step in the right direction for aviation powerplants. If R&D could have continued I am sure the HP could have been increased to satisfy Mooney. Anyone could have guessed the engine from one of the most expensive sports cars in the US would have been too expensive to use as a replacement engine in production planes. I don't know what they were thinking but at least they tried! That's a lot more than can be said for junk producers in Detroit! I am getting feed back from Dyno tuners of type 1-4 and at the RPM we will run the fan uses about 4 hp. I have thought of using the stock carbs but I think the Bings will do a much better job. The stock carbs would be too tall since they mount at the base. Even with the type 3 fan the engine is only 15 inches tall, no need to mount 6 inch tall carbs to make it 21 inches. You could be right the FAN idea may be one for the round file but I like looking at all the options and obviously have a pretty open mind compared to others! Heck I could just come out and say how I really feel but wouldn't want to offend the VW pilots! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:07:10 -0500 From: kr2builder@juno.com (Richard E Pitman) Subject: Re: KR: Gathering Hello again fellow KR builders, Well it is official, I got off for the gathering, and have reservations at the Cherokee Strip Best Western. I look forward to meeting those of you that I have not, and seeing again those of you that I have met. My friend Gene is planning to come with me, so if anyone talks to Marty Roberts, tell him that Gene wants to help him win the Spot Landing contest again. Ricky Pitman KR2 Builder Marion, Arkansas E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:39:19 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Vacation... Well, I'm getting caught up on emails after my vacation. 1400! WOW a record. Teleport has shut my account down, hopefully KRNET is still working. I will find out as I get to the last 100 emails or so. I got to fly a C-172 for the first time on Aug 8th. Not much different from a C-152, except more sluggish, if that is possible. There were three of us on board, and it was a hot day. I did pretty good, but the CFI who checked me out had me fly 75-80Mph indicated on final. The plane takes lots more runway than a C-152. Can't wait to get my KR done. I will chat again once I sift through the 1400 emails today. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 SABER Engineering voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:40:41 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: KRNET problems 9th/10th... I'm down to 900 email messages from 1400, it turns out that there may have been a majordomo problem here at Teleport on the weekend of the 9th. So you were not imagining it. - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 SABER Engineering voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:19:16 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Sling seat Netheads: Following is a private Email to me that I wouldl ike to pass on. My seat will be a non convas type, so I didn't save the KRNet messages about sling seats. Anyone able to help Robert out? Email me direct or via KRNet so I can save the info to a file (just in case my other seat ideas don't work out...) Thanks Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Santa Monica, CA <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:21:02 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Gathering In a message dated 97-08-18 14:11:54 EDT, Ricky Pitman wrote: << My friend Gene is planning to come with me, so if anyone talks to Marty Roberts, tell him that Gene wants to help him win the Spot Landing contest again. Ricky Pitman >> Well, I guess it is safe to say that anyone named "Gene" will be disqualified from any aircraft judging...Sounds to me like he is trying to snag a ride with Marty. :-) Most creative. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Santa Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:24:53 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: project update/Ken Rand I met someone at the local field a few weeks ago who had flown with Ken Rand. He did not remember Ken's name, but recalled flying in a KR-2 with "the designer". Upon landing apparently Ken told him that he was "worried" about making it back, as he filled up the day before and had made several flights since that time. The gentelman I talked to just said, that he "Was not impressed" with the designer after that point. The gist of this conversation was that Ken wasn't checking his fuel tanks before take off regularly. MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > >>> Any airplane that kills its primary designer, probably deserves to > >>> have a few changes made. > > >> If memory serves me correctly, it wasn't the airplane's fault at all. > > >It wasn't the plane's fault. That is a fact. > > This lie has been misleading people for years, and the Net has apparently > given it new life. According to the old newsletters [by memory], Rand died > when he ran out of gas fighting headwinds on a trip he'd made before, so he > wasn't paying adequate attention to fuel. He was flying VFR on top, and when > the engine failed, he plunged into one of the worst snowstorms of the season > and crashed. Rescue teams could not immediately go out because the weather > was so bad, but Rand died instantly, so they couldn't have helped. > > Rand's crash clearly was pilot error and not the fault of the plane. In fact, > even when engines fail from icing, mag problems, etc., I don't see how these > things cannot properly be called the fault of the plane since the engine > setup on a homebuilt is up to the builder. > > Mike Taglieri - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 SABER Engineering voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:36:54 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Sling seat At 04:19 PM 8/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Netheads: > >Following is a private Email to me that I wouldl ike to pass on. My seat >will be a non convas type, so I didn't save the KRNet messages about sling >seats. Anyone able to help Robert out? Email me direct or via KRNet so I >can save the info to a file (just in case my other seat ideas don't work >out...) > >Thanks Randy, after Janette gets the current inventory re-sewn have him order one from her. They are cheep and when sewn together right are very strong! I like mine its very comfortable. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:43:25 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Wing Attach Fittings A few weeks ago during the great wing attach fitting debate, we were talking about cutting out your own fittings. Well I just wanted to pass this info along for those of you who want to give it a try. I used a abrasive disk (bought at Ace Hardware) in my 7.5 inch worm drive Skill Saw and sliced through the material in nothing flat! I just cut out all the fittings for the stub wings in about 1 hour! They need a little touch up on the grinder and will be good to go! Of course I still have to drill all those holes but the carbide bits in a drill press work pretty good for that. PS I cant believe how heavy these fittings are! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:42:43 -0700 From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Micheal Mims wrote: (real message truncated to extinction) > PS I cant believe how heavy these fittings are! That brings up an interesting question: Does anyone know of a builder who said "(!) it, I'm building a one-piece wing." How much weight would that save? And how much re-engineering would you have to do? Owen Davies ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 17:47:39 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 08:42 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >Micheal Mims wrote: > >(real message truncated to extinction) > >> PS I cant believe how heavy these fittings are! > >That brings up an interesting question: Does anyone know of a builder >who said "(!) it, I'm building a one-piece wing." How much weight >would that save? And how much re-engineering would you have to do? > I bet the attach fittings weigh around 4 pounds, that's not including 104 an3 bolts used to mount them! Man that's a lot of bolts! Another 2 pounds! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:49:06 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:43:25 -0700 Micheal Mims writes: > Of course I still have to drill all those holes but >the carbide bits in a drill press work pretty good for that. > >PS I cant believe how heavy these fittings are! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims > I would suggest drilling the bolt holes slightly undersized and using the proper reamer to ream the holes out to fit the bolts properly. You really want a precise fit at least on the spar attach bolts where the outer and inner fittings bolt together. It's better yet if you can get the proper fit for all of the spar attach bolts. A 3/16 or 3/8 drill bit is somewhat larger than the 3/16 and 3/8 bolts and will leave you with a loose fit. The proper reamer will give you a precise fit. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:00:28 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 06:27:34 Ron Lee writes: >Jeff, I am sorry. Your transmission was unclear. Terrible static >here! > >IT is a thought. Need to assess logistics. Unfortunately, >Meadowlake >may not be proprly equipped for such an event. sigh. > >Ron > > Huh? Nice restaurant on the field. Ron's spacious hanger/garage for the hanger flying. And Ron's stately airport mansion for 200 KR fans. What could be better!?! Sounds like Ron Lee is due to host the '98 Gathering. Besides, with all the high altitude practice you'll get over the next year, you'll be a shoe-in for the spot landing contest. :o) Everyone should get to experience the anemia of their engine wheezing as is struggles to stagger off the ground at 7000'. :o) Jeff "trying out the Randy Stein whining method" Scott - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:10:21 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 07:49 PM 8/18/97 -0600, you wrote: I would suggest drilling the bolt holes slightly undersized and using the >proper reamer to ream the holes out to fit the bolts properly. You >really want a precise fit at least on the spar attach bolts where the >outer and inner fittings bolt together. It's better yet if you can get >the proper fit for all of the spar attach bolts. A 3/16 or 3/8 drill bit >is somewhat larger than the 3/16 and 3/8 bolts and will leave you with a >loose fit. The proper reamer will give you a precise fit. Do you think AS&S has the drill bits and reamers? Or should I be able to buy them most anywhere? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:39:29 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering >Huh? Nice restaurant on the field. Ron's spacious hanger/garage for the >hanger flying. And Ron's stately airport mansion for 200 KR fans. What >could be better!?! Sounds like Ron Lee is due to host the '98 Gathering. > Besides, with all the high altitude practice you'll get over the next >year, you'll be a shoe-in for the spot landing contest. :o) Everyone >should get to experience the anemia of their engine wheezing as is >struggles to stagger off the ground at 7000'. :o) > >Jeff "trying out the Randy Stein whining method" Scott > >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM The restaurant is closed. My dog is big (95# German Shepherd). Plus the view taking off the Los Alamos airport would be stunning. Question on the spot landing contest. Does it have to be a rolling landing or does any impact closest to the spot win? Ron "Win at any cost" Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:55:16 -0600 From: "Larry Jacks" Subject: KR: Re: Ken Rand I found this write-up of Ken Rand's accident in the March 1979 issue of Sport Aviation (page 6). I hope this clears any misinformation about Ken's crash. This article is copyright EAA. "Ken Rand 1932 - 1979 Ken Rand, designer of the popular KR-1 and KR-2, died in the crash of his prototype KR-2, N4KR, on Wednesday afternoon, January 31, 1979. Returning home to Huntington Beach, California from the Sun 'N Fun fly-in in Lakeland, Florida, Ken made his last refueling stop in Van Horn, Texas. A few hours later he arrived -- VFR -- at high altitude over the LA area with the worst storm in years raging below him. At 3:37 p.m. he radioed a distress call indicating his engine had quit and that he was descending into the clouds. At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last transmission was received: "I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!" A land and air search was initiated immediately but the severity of the storm -- 200 feet and blowing snow were reported by George AFB at the time - -- hampered efforts of search teams. The following day a second storm moved into the area with the result that it was Saturday afternoon before the wreckage was discovered near Phelan, California by a sherrif's helicopter. Ken had died instantly in the crash. He was 46. Ken Rand came to the attention of the sport aviation world in the summer of 1972 when he brought his KR-1, N1436, to Oshkosh. It was a sensation and along with the KR-2, which was introduced at Oshkosh in 1974, turned homebuilding in a new direction -- toward the composite designs of today. Since 1972 more KRs have been built than any other design and the KR-2 remains at a peak of popularity. Ken loved his tiny airplanes and he loved flying. He was a key sport aviation figure of the 70s and will be sorely missed. Our condolences to his family and his many friends." - ---------- > From: MikeTnyc@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: project update/Ken Rand > Date: Thursday, August 14, 1997 12:03 AM > > >>> Any airplane that kills its primary designer, probably deserves to > >>> have a few changes made. > > >> If memory serves me correctly, it wasn't the airplane's fault at all. > > >It wasn't the plane's fault. That is a fact. > > This lie has been misleading people for years, and the Net has apparently > given it new life. According to the old newsletters [by memory], Rand died > when he ran out of gas fighting headwinds on a trip he'd made before, so he > wasn't paying adequate attention to fuel. He was flying VFR on top, and when > the engine failed, he plunged into one of the worst snowstorms of the season > and crashed. Rescue teams could not immediately go out because the weather > was so bad, but Rand died instantly, so they couldn't have helped. > > Rand's crash clearly was pilot error and not the fault of the plane. In fact, > even when engines fail from icing, mag problems, etc., I don't see how these > things cannot properly be called the fault of the plane since the engine > setup on a homebuilt is up to the builder. > > Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:58:34 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering In a message dated 97-08-18 22:42:12 EDT, Ron Lee wrote: << Question on the spot landing contest. Does it have to be a rolling landing or does any impact closest to the spot win? Ron "Win at any cost" Lee >> The earliest dive bombers dropped their load from a nearly vertical dive to get the desired accuracy, but this may not be a survivable technique in this case....... Rick "If that's what it takes, you win!" Junkin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:01:22 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering > > >The restaurant is closed. My dog is big (95# German Shepherd). >Plus the view taking off the Los Alamos airport would be stunning. > >Question on the spot landing contest. Does it have to be a rolling >landing or does any impact closest to the spot win? > Impact only counts of you hit hard enough to leave parts of the plane there. :o0 >Ron "Win at any cost" Lee > Bummer about the restaurant. I always liked the busted/shot up prop and the picture story underneath it. Also got to watch lots of high density altitude stupidity out on the runway from the restaurant. Guess we'll have to all eat at Ron's Kitchen now. :o) The take-off and landing view at Los Alamos is stunning. So are the winds and density altitude. We had a C-150 try to plow a furrow in the rocks 50 feet below the end of the runway last weekend. Jeff "guess the '98 Gathering will have to move east" Scott - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:00:34 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Maybe I got a defective drill bit from Home Depot, but I have to SCREW my bolts into the holes (or BEAT them thru, which I haven't had the guts for yet) after drilling them with my wonderful Vermont American 12" 3/16 bit. This brings up the subject of what happens if you booger up a hole somehow. I remember that in an old issue of the Newsletter somebody suggested intentionally drilling the holes oversize, and filling them with epoxy afterward for a better fit. I wouldn't do that on purpose, but it WOULD fix a screw-up. I think somebody pooh-poohed it later, as a bad idea, but we do exactly that for the REALLY critical jobs on Space Shuttle experiment racks. They had me design a bolt with a grease fitting on it, which would screw into the hole so that epoxy (Devcon) could be squirted in to make the fit perfect. These racks are used over and over, with experiments moved around each time, so things get a little sloppy. The bolt is covered with release agent before epoxying, and is removed and replaced with the good stuff (200 AN-3 bolts). If it's good enough for our stress guys, and signed off by NASA, it's good enough for me! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Jeffrey E Scott > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings > Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 8:49 PM > > On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:43:25 -0700 Micheal Mims > writes: > > Of course I still have to drill all those holes but > >the carbide bits in a drill press work pretty good for that. > > > >PS I cant believe how heavy these fittings are! > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > > > > I would suggest drilling the bolt holes slightly undersized and using the > proper reamer to ream the holes out to fit the bolts properly. You > really want a precise fit at least on the spar attach bolts where the > outer and inner fittings bolt together. It's better yet if you can get > the proper fit for all of the spar attach bolts. A 3/16 or 3/8 drill bit > is somewhat larger than the 3/16 and 3/8 bolts and will leave you with a > loose fit. The proper reamer will give you a precise fit. > > ------- > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213W construction and first flight at > http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:19:32 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings >This brings up the subject of what happens if you booger up a hole somehow. > I remember that in an old issue of the Newsletter somebody suggested >intentionally drilling the holes oversize, and filling them with epoxy >afterward for a better fit. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL I think flox would be better. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:34:09 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Tulsa flooding I just saw a report on the flooding in Tulsa today -- I hope all you folks over there are staying dry! Marty Roberts and Gene Veron are both located in Tulsa, anybody know how they are faring? Let us know if we need to put together a KRNet Relief Effort. Did Perry escape the brunt of the storm? Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:25:44 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 10:00 PM 8/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Maybe I got a defective drill bit from Home Depot, but I have to SCREW my bolts into the holes (or BEAT them thru, which I haven't had the guts for yet) after drilling them with my wonderful Vermont American 12" 3/16 bit.>>> The carbide drill bit I got from Home Base has the same effect. I used a Drill Press to drill my aluminum parts and the an3 bolts were a light press fit to say the least! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:34:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 09:19 PM 8/18/97, you wrote: >I think flox would be better. > >Ron Lee > A little flox mixed with Devcon or JB Weld sounds good to me! Or better yet a product called Marine Tex. Just for kicks I rough sanded two pieces of 1/8 inch aluminum and used JB Weld with a little flox added to glue them together. I let it cure for a week and screwed one end to my work bench and tried to break the joint! WOW I was really impressed, that stuff is amazing! While trying to break the joint I remembered something about the wing skins on the Grumman American Aircraft being bonded to the spars (no rivets). I am a believer now! We used a product called MarineTex in the machine shop which was hands down WAY stronger than JB Weld. Its good stuff, It is used on small ships to repair cracked cylinder blocks and heads. It bonds aluminum like you wouldn't believe! We used it mostly to machine isolators or to repair very old 2 cycle cases (no longer available). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 00:01:55 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering In a message dated 97-08-18 22:42:12 EDT, Jeff & Ron wrote: << >Jeff "trying out the Randy Stein whining method" Scott > >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM>> Cool it, I've cornered the whine market... <> Sorry, smoking holes in the ground don't count... Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:05:14 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings > >Do you think AS&S has the drill bits and reamers? Or should I be able to >buy them most anywhere? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims I usually go see my neighborhood machinist as he keeps a cabinet full of this stuff, but most any quality autoparts store should either stock or know who stocks reamers. Mark Langford's "defective" drill bit proves my point. Although a 3/16 drill bit is usually slightly larger than 3/16, there is virtually no quality control so you don't know what the exact size of the hole will be. You do know it is somewhere near 3/16. Take a micrometer to a hardware store sometime and check several drill bits of the "same" size. Also, a reamer will leave a perfectly round hole that fits the bolt. Drill bits don't. It will probably be OK to drill with a bit and clamp the fittings together with the bolts. I have little doubt that there are many KRs that have been flying many years built just that way. I just prefer a more precise fit on that critical of a component. Your mileage may vary. Since I had some alignment problems with the fittings on the wing that was already closed up when I bought the project, I drilled some of the main spar attach holes from 3/8 to almost 7/16 and reamed them out to fit. My friendly neighborhood machinist built me a drilling/reaming block to help make sure the holes were properly aligned. The bolts drop in my wing attach fittings fairly easily when the wing is properly aligned, but they also fit snugly in the properly sized holes. FWIW, the original RR fittings appear to be punched out with a die in a stamping machine. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 00:15:47 -0400 (EDT) From: DC4FREE@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? Ron, Will ya zip a copy my way at dwright@Korry.com would like to see your handbook. Don Wright Everett, WA at Paine Field DC4FREE@AOL.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:48:12 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Spar Cap construction - help needed > There is however, a difference in > stiffness (vertical being the stiffer) as well as a 19% difference in > strength regarding bolt tearout depending on grain direction. We strive for > vertical grain but that's actually the weaker bolt attach direction. I > guess that's why those areas usually are faced with ply. This is all from > memory so please don't shoot me. If you think I'm in error please say so > and I'll go dig the article out. > > > Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) I've often wondered about the idea of increasing the plywood thickness under the spar attach fittings, i.e.. overlaying another 3/32" ply to increase bolt tear-out loading factors... Anybody ever look into this? bou KR2S - skinning the 2nd fuselage side today John/Johnna Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 00:22:56 -0400 (EDT) From: DC4FREE@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering I'll take the plans if still available don wright seattle, wa DC4FREE@AOL.COM or dwright@korry.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:55:39 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? At 12:15 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >Ron, >Will ya zip a copy my way at dwright@Korry.com > ME TOO ME TOO!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #77 ****************************