From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 11:26 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n078' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #78 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Wednesday, August 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 078 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 7:30:45 ÿÿÿ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: KR: Flight Training Hi Guys Got involved in a discussion about using ones own homebuilt aircraft to obtain a pilots licence. During the discussion the KR2 was mentioned. Any comments about how many of the KR2s built by the owner where used to obtained a pilots licence. Steve in South Africa steveb@aviation.denel.co.za ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 7:33:31 ÿÿÿ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? Me Too at steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Thanks Steve in South Africa - ---------- From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] To: Cc: Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 9:55PM At 12:15 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >Ron, >Will ya zip a copy my way at dwright@Korry.com > ME TOO ME TOO!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:11:38 +0300 From: "Andre' Johnson" Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? Me too at abacus.co.za Andre' Johnson abacus@lantic.co.za From a sunny South-Africa - ---------- > From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? > Date: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 10:33 AM > > Me Too at steveb@aviation.denel.co.za > Thanks > Steve in South Africa > ---------- > From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] > To: > Cc: > Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? > Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 9:55PM > > At 12:15 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Ron, > >Will ya zip a copy my way at dwright@Korry.com > > > > ME TOO ME TOO!!!!! > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ > _____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:08:42 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff >I am getting feed back from Dyno tuners of type 1-4 and at the RPM we will >run the fan uses about 4 hp. I have thought of using the stock carbs but I >think the Bings will do a much better job. The stock carbs would be too >tall since they mount at the base. Even with the type 3 fan the engine is >only 15 inches tall, no need to mount 6 inch tall carbs to make it 21 >inches. I have long been interested in using one or two side-mounting motorcycle carbs (not necessarily Bings, but it's a thought) on top of the engine for a much simpler intake. Have your measurements shown that such a design (plus the fuel pump) is compact enough so it doesn't need drastic changes to the standard mount, or have you worked out a better kind of mount? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:22:17 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff At 02:08 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >I have long been interested in using one or two side-mounting motorcycle carbs (not necessarily Bings, but it's a thought) on top of the engine for a much simpler intake. Have your measurements shown that such a design (plus the fuel pump) is compact enough so it doesn't need drastic changes to the standard mount, or have you worked out a better kind of mount? > >Mike Taglieri > Its a different way of mounting the engine, the tranny end towards the front. Steve has a rear drive setup that should be on sale in Oct. You can check it out at: http://www.greatplainsas.com/newproducts.html this moves all the accessories towards the firewall end where there is much more room for fuel pumps carbs and other stuff. Check it out, I think you will like it! Its exciting for those considering the air cooled VW, although I am almost convinced the Air Cooled VW will no make enough power for me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:09:42 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering At 04:22 AM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >I'll take the plans if still available > >don wright >seattle, wa >DC4FREE@AOL.COM >or >dwright@korry.com > Don, Got it all together. There's the plans sheets including a sheet for VW engine baffles, the instruction manual and the letter containing the serial number. It weighs 2 pounds 4 oz. and as soon as you give me your address I can send it out. Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:16:51 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering I purchased a Great Plains 2180 engine from a KR2 to use on my Sonerai. It came equipped with a lot of components that aren't used on the Sonerai. The engine had 146 hrs on it. Diehl Accessory Case Flywheel Alternator Geared Starter The above lists in the current Great Plains catalog for about $620. I've asking $425 and I'll pay freight. I also have the dual port intake manifold for the KR that lists for 175. I'm asking $110 and I'll pay freight. The flange is setup for Ellison but this of course can be easily changed. If anyone wants the tubular exhaust (this was on a taildragger) Great Plains get's $300 for a new one. This one's not new but is complete and I'd ask $100 and I'll pay the freight. Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 06:42:58 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 03:25 AM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >At 10:00 PM 8/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Maybe I got a defective drill bit from Home Depot, but I have to SCREW my >bolts into the holes (or BEAT them thru, which I haven't had the guts for >yet) after drilling them with my wonderful Vermont American 12" 3/16 bit.>>> > > >The carbide drill bit I got from Home Base has the same effect. I used a >Drill Press to drill my aluminum parts and the an3 bolts were a light press >fit to say the least! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ >_____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > Sorry to hear about your troubles but am glad to find out I'm not alone in this. Using a standard twist drill you can expect to have a bit of out of round hole. I used a reamer to clean the hole up and finish it as per good practice. The holes are still tight. I thought I was gonna go nuts! Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:01:57 -0500 From: kr2builder@juno.com (Richard E Pitman) Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:43:25 -0700 Michael Mims writes: >A few weeks ago during the great wing attach fitting debate, we were >talking >about cutting out your own fittings. Well I just wanted to pass this >info >along for those of you who want to give it a try. I used a abrasive >disk >(bought at Ace Hardware) in my 7.5 inch worm drive Skill Saw and >sliced >through the material in nothing flat! I just cut out all the fittings >for >the stub wings in about 1 hour! They need a little touch up on the >grinder >and will be good to go! Of course I still have to drill all those >holes but >the carbide bits in a drill press work pretty good for that. > >PS I cant believe how heavy these fittings are! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Michael Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ >_____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > > Michael, I am curious about how much heat was generated by the cutting process, and how much more will be generated using the grinder. The point to this is did it change the temper of the 4130 strap. I wanted to do mine that way, but a machinist friend of mine warned against it. He had me cut it with a hacksaw using lubricant and then file everything to the finished size. In drilling the Lightening holes and bolt holes he had me use a uniibt step drill, then ream the holes (chamfer) to reduce stress points. It took about two weeks to build them this way. If your way works Ok then am I ever going to be pis^%@^@% off. Any engineer types or other machinists got a comment? Ricky Pitman KR2 Builder Marion, Arkansas E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:18:27 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems At 01:29 PM 8/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 01:19 PM 8/17/97 -0600, you wrote: >The problem is worsened by the fact that my prop has a very large hub, so >the manufacturer won't/can't build me a forward bulkhead to hold the >>spinner out in place. > >Yep I think your gona find without a forward bulkhead (mounted forward of >the prop) you gona get cracks. >Micheal Mims Your prop and spinner must be balanced and tracking true. Also real care must be taken during the installation of the prop spinner. After tracking true the spinner, I polished all cut edges and screw holes. Also I used button head screws with self-locking nuts and washers. I don't have a forward bulkhead in my spinner and never seen any cracks. I believe polishing( removing all nicks in the spinner) is the real and not putting the spinner under any stresses. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:21:32 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems At 01:18 PM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >At 01:29 PM 8/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >>At 01:19 PM 8/17/97 -0600, you wrote: >>The problem is worsened by the fact that my prop has a very large hub, so >>the manufacturer won't/can't build me a forward bulkhead to hold the >>>spinner out in place. >> >>Yep I think your gona find without a forward bulkhead (mounted forward of >>the prop) you gona get cracks. >>Micheal Mims > > > >Your prop and spinner must be balanced and tracking true. Also real care >must be taken during the installation of the prop spinner. > >After tracking true the spinner, I polished all cut edges and screw holes. >Also I used button head screws with self-locking nuts and washers. > >I don't have a forward bulkhead in my spinner and never seen any cracks. I >believe polishing( removing all nicks in the spinner) is the real and not >putting the spinner under any stresses. > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > I have taken similar precautions Bobby and have the front bulkhead. The Sonerai newsletter is fraut full of cracked spinner woes. We use the 12" from Great Plains while the KR uses the 10". Sonerai consensus is to go ahead and add doublers at the blade cutout areas because this has been a great problem. I have not done this but did polish the cutout areas after making sure it tracks and like I said I use the front bulkhead with three screws attching the spinner shell at that location. No problems. Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:55:52 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Mark Langford wrote: > Maybe I got a defective drill bit from Home Depot, but I have to SCREW my > bolts into the holes (or BEAT them thru, which I haven't had the guts for > yet) after drilling them with my wonderful Vermont American 12" 3/16 bit. > I remember that in an old issue of the Newsletter somebody suggested > intentionally drilling the holes oversize, and filling them with epoxy > afterward for a better fit. I wouldn't do that on purpose, but it WOULD > fix a screw-up. I think somebody pooh-poohed it later, as a bad idea, but > we do exactly that for the REALLY critical jobs on Space Shuttle experiment > racks. They had me design a bolt with a grease fitting on it, which would > screw into the hole so that epoxy (Devcon) could be squirted in to make > the fit perfect. > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > I was the pooh-pooh-er. To be specific, I said that since the bolts carry the load in bearing on the wood, in order to work, I think that the epoxy would have to have a stronger (in compression) than the wood. If the epoxy becomes plastic under load and deforms, the overall strength of the fitting would become less. I also said that if anyone wanted to do this, they should test it first. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:08:21 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Richard E Pitman wrote: > I am curious about how much heat was generated by the cutting process, > and how much more will be generated using the grinder. The point to > this is did it change the temper of the 4130 strap. > > Any engineer types or other machinists got a comment? > > Ricky Pitman > KR2 Builder > Marion, Arkansas > E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com > Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm My reference books that have the temper temperatures for 4130 normalized steel is at work and I am NOT. Going from memory, the temper temperature is somewhere in the 500-700 degree F range. If you can hold it with your hand, it is not too hot to affect the overall temper. If the steel is heated very hot (up to cherry red) and allowed to cool in still air, it will still be soft and relatively unaffected. Don't get it too hot and don't quench it. It will be fine. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:16:29 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Micheal Mims wrote: > The proper reamer will give you a precise fit. > Do you think AS&S has the drill bits and reamers? Or should I be able > to buy them most anywhere? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand Try Wholesale Tool. The phone numbers that I have are: Michigan 800 521 3420 Mass. 800 343 1008 North Carolina 800 438 3580 Oklahoma 800 331 4075 Florida 800 237 4689 Texas 800 231 4585 Indiana 800 551 2251 A ~2000 page catalog of any tool you can think of. $25.00 minimum order. ANY size drill and reamer in all sorts of types. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:51:19 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 08:01 AM 8/19/97 -0500, you wrote: I am curious about how much heat was generated by the cutting process, >and how much more will be generated using the grinder. The point to this >is did it change the temper of the 4130 strap. > Well it got warm but you could touch it within 30 seconds of the cut so it wasn't that hot. There is very little discoloration to the parts and it only goes inward from the cut about 1/16 of an inch. I don't think its a big issue! As a matter of fact the wing attach fittings on the WAR replicas are welded! AS for the lightning holes, what lightning holes? :o) Seriously how much weight can you save on these? 10 oz? Mike "The proud owner of the 1000 pound KR2S" Mims Not really!!! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:44:24 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: ADMIN Update As far as I know all is alive and well with KRNET. Please post some KR2 building progress stuff to make me believe this. I just sifted through 1500 emails that gathered through my vacation and travel away from home over the last 3 weeks. I had to delete some of the digest archives of the majordomo server so if anyone wants these let me know and I can email them to you directly. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:34:35 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: KR Operating Manual/Handbook I have sent a draft version to all that requested it. If you asked for one and did not receive it, email me privately and I will try again. If the folks who have it could glance through it for technical errors, and report back to m privately, I would appreciate it. I need to somehow generate a weight and balance chart. I may do it by hand and scan it, then insert as a JPG. Not sure if that will work though. I also deleted the info on flight testing. Rick's test manual is so much better than a short blurb in the manual that it is redundant at best... and a waste of paper. The typical plots of airspeed, landing and take-off distances, etc also need to be complied. If anyone has good data to generate said plots, pass it on por favor. These are plots at various density altitudes. Will try to have a further revised edition available within a week or so. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:54:02 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: KR: Web update for Ross Email to cary@storm.ca Web page: www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml Ross: your email is at work, so no quotes from it. I took more pictures of the manifold and posted them on the web page. Dark, but readable I think. Some explanations are there too. Can make drawings if needed. The manifold sure does look like the one you know, but sure didn't fit the engine mount. Cut: hack: Enjoy, and feedback is really welcome. If you think the site is worth a link from yours, please feel free. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:05:24 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Flight Training On Tue, 19 Aug 97 7:30:45 ÿÿÿ steveb@aviation.denel.co.za writes: >Hi Guys >Got involved in a discussion about using ones own homebuilt aircraft >to obtain a pilots licence. During the discussion the KR2 was >mentioned. >Any comments about how many of the KR2s built by the owner where used >to obtained a pilots licence. > >Steve in South Africa >steveb@aviation.denel.co.za > At the risk of starting off another flame war, I'll just say that a KR is not the appropriate airplane for initial flight training. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:58:33 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems > >Your prop and spinner must be balanced and tracking true. Also real care >must be taken during the installation of the prop spinner. > >After tracking true the spinner, I polished all cut edges and screw holes. >Also I used button head screws with self-locking nuts and washers. > >I don't have a forward bulkhead in my spinner and never seen any cracks. I >believe polishing( removing all nicks in the spinner) is the real and not >putting the spinner under any stresses. > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > Everything was tracking properly and is nicely balanced. The problem is actually one problem compounded by another. It will be much easier to explain in person next month. I just ordered a 6" skull cap spinner from A/C Spruce and will live with it for now. I'll be sure to look your spinner over next month. Thanks, Jeff Scott - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:08:59 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Operating Manual/Handbook In a message dated 97-08-19 20:37:52 EDT, you write: << The typical plots of airspeed, landing and take-off distances, etc also need to be complied. If anyone has good data to generate said plots, pass it on por favor. These are plots at various density altitudes. >> This would be excellent subject matter for a fact finding session during the gathering next month. Let's see if we can make it happen. A good cross section of sources (KR Flyers) will be there. We need to see about gathering the nuggets to include in the POH. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Santa Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:13:26 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Prelim Elset: Iridium 21 Aug UT Launch Iridium Launch 4, 21 Aug 97, 00:38 UT 1 99999U 970xxA 97233.09986111 .00000027 00000-0 00000+0 0 14 2 99999 86.4020 40.9398 0014611 253.5528 277.4218 14.80129216 08 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 04:53:08 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Tulsa flooding On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:34:09 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >I just saw a report on the flooding in Tulsa today -- I hope all you = folks >over there are staying dry! Marty Roberts and Gene Veron are both = located in >Tulsa, anybody know how they are faring? Let us know if we need to put >together a KRNet Relief Effort. Did Perry escape the brunt of the = storm? > >Cheers! >Rick Junkin >EagleGator@aol.com >St Charles MO Staying Dry?? It has rained extremely hard for the last 3-4 mornings. I don't mean for just a little bit, it must have poured for 3-4 hours each morning without letting up. I don't know what the reports you saw were saying. There were only about two dozen homes and businesses that were damaged. Tulsa floods almost everytime that it rains real hard. =20 I haven't heard anything about Perry so I am assuming that it missed the heavy rains. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 01:54:50 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Gathering Netheads: I spoke with... Don Betchan - Perry Intentional Weedpatch is almost ready for the arrival of all of us KR guys next month. Lots of rain, but no serious flooding. Motel #1 is filling up fast and Motel #2 may be brought in to take up the slack. Don't delay on making reservations. Don asked me to get a head count for the BBQ on Friday night so he can be sure to have enough food. Email me direct and use "KR BBQ" in the subject line so I can help get a tally for him. We don't want to use Norad, the airport dog (our back up plan) if we can help it. Don thinks we'll need too much BBQ sauce to mask the "'ol yellar" flavor and the "Hanger" the airport cat would miss 'em too much. Hanger likes to chase Norad up the tree. I spoke with Monte (current KR Newsletter editor) who is promoting the Gathering in his publication too. He will be attending and presenting a session on Saturday. He is jazzed and said he has gotten many calls from his readers who plan to attend. Ernie Koppe (a past KR Newsletter editor) expects to attend too. Thank you Mike Mims for making this happen. Boy will we get some good stories from Ernie Friday night. Looks to be a GREAT EVENT. Be there, or you'll be sorry. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Santa Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 02:11:09 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings >> I remember that in an old issue of the Newsletter somebody suggested >> intentionally drilling the holes oversize, and filling them with epoxy >> afterward for a better fit. I wouldn't do that on purpose, but it WOULD >> fix a screw-up. I think somebody pooh-poohed it later, as a bad idea, but >> we do exactly that for the REALLY critical jobs on Space Shuttle experiment >> racks. They had me design a bolt with a grease fitting on it, which would >> screw into the hole so that epoxy (Devcon) could be squirted in to make >> the fit perfect. >I was the pooh-pooh-er. To be specific, I said that since the bolts carry >the load in bearing on the wood, in order to work, I think that the epoxy >would have to have a stronger (in compression) than the wood. If the epoxy >becomes plastic under load and deforms, the overall strength of the fitting >would become less. I also said that if anyone wanted to do this, they >should test it first. I thought that Newsletter article was suggesting that people soak the wood inside the hole with epoxy to strengthen it, not that they should drill the hole too big on purpose. Whatever it was, epoxy has great strength in compression (with or without flox), so soaking the hole would make sense if to increase the strength of the fittings. Years ago, on my first ($100) motorcycle, I discovered that the front sprocket, which transmits power from the transmission to the rear wheel through the chain, was ridiculously loose and moved around as much as 3/16" on the splines of the transmission shaft. I also discovered that there wasn't much left of the splines on either the shaft or the sprocket. A proper repair, with new sprocket and shaft, would have cost many times the value of the bike and would have required a complete transmission rebuild to install the new shaft. Instead, I cleaned the surfaces, stuck brass shim stock into the gaps to centralize the sprocket somewhat, then filled the space with epoxy after turning the engine on its side and building a dam of putty to hold the epoxy until it set. That sprocket never wobbled again, although the forces on it were probably greater than would ever happen on a wing attach fitting bolt and were certainly more jerky and abrupt. Therefore, I think soaking the wood with epoxy or even filling up the space in a too-big hole would give you more strength. However, the strength is adequate in the first place, so I don't see much point in this for normal-sized holes unless the plane is way overweight. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 23:23:16 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 02:11 AM 8/20/97 -0400, you wrote: Therefore, I think soaking the wood with >epoxy or even filling up the space in a too-big hole would give you more >strength. However, the strength is adequate in the first place, so I don't >see much point in this for normal-sized holes unless the plane is way >overweight. > The hot setup is to drill the holes with the 3/16 bit then enlarge the holes in the spar to 1/2 inch. Have some aluminum bushings turned to fit in the 1/2 inch holes. Bushings of course would have the proper reamed hole for the An3 bolts, but your right, it works as is so why mess with it? I plan to flox my bolts into place. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 06:34:38 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: Flight Training Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Aug 97 7:30:45 ÿÿÿ steveb@aviation.denel.co.za writes: > >Hi Guys > >Got involved in a discussion about using ones own homebuilt aircraft > >to obtain a pilots licence. During the discussion the KR2 was > >mentioned. > >Any comments about how many of the KR2s built by the owner where used > >to obtained a pilots licence. > > > >Steve in South Africa > >steveb@aviation.denel.co.za > > > At the risk of starting off another flame war, I'll just say that a KR is > not the appropriate airplane for initial flight training. > > ------- > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213W construction and first flight at > http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm I agree. - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:23:20 -0500 From: Shane Gibbs Subject: KR: KR Operating Manual/Handbook -Reply I would like to recieve a manual. I am a prospective KR builder and would like as much info as I can get. I am planning on attending the KR Gathering in Perry, OK this year. Have you been to a gathering and what should I expect? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:05:34 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: KR Operating Manual/Handbook -Reply Shane Gibbs wrote: > > I would like to recieve a manual. I am a prospective KR builder and would > like as much info as I can get. I am planning on attending the KR > Gathering in Perry, OK this year. Have you been to a gathering and what > should I expect? Expect nothing and you will have the time of your life! With weather being an issue you may see anywhere from 10 to 25 of the BEST KRs in existance. You will NEVER be able to duplicate the information or the people you will meet at a KR Gathering expecially the people. The people are the most friendly and want to share their experiences unlike other aircraft gatherings. It is a time you won't forget and you will find out everything you want to know about KRs. - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:32:54 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Flight Training At 10:05 PM 8/19/97 -0600, you wrote: > >On Tue, 19 Aug 97 7:30:45 =FF=FF=FF steveb@aviation.denel.co.za writes: >>Hi Guys >>Got involved in a discussion about using ones own homebuilt aircraft=20 >>to obtain a pilots licence. During the discussion the KR2 was=20 >>mentioned. >>Any comments about how many of the KR2s built by the owner where used=20 >>to obtained a pilots licence.=20 >> >>Steve in South Africa >>steveb@aviation.denel.co.za >> >At the risk of starting off another flame war, I'll just say that a KR is >not the appropriate airplane for initial flight training. > >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM Jeff's right! I really enjoy being a fighter pilot but if I started off being a fighter pilot, I probably wouldn't be a pilot. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:49:38 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 11:23 PM 8/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 02:11 AM 8/20/97 -0400, you wrote: > Therefore, I think soaking the wood with >>epoxy or even filling up the space in a too-big hole would give you more >>strength. However, the strength is adequate in the first place, so I don't >>see much point in this for normal-sized holes unless the plane is way >>overweight. >> > > >The hot setup is to drill the holes with the 3/16 bit then enlarge the holes >in the spar to 1/2 inch. Have some aluminum bushings turned to fit in the >1/2 inch holes. Bushings of course would have the proper reamed hole for >the An3 bolts, but your right, it works as is so why mess with it? I plan >to flox my bolts into place. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims > Micheal, What are you talking about? Drill holes in the spars to 1/2"???? Aren"t they talking about the wing attach fittings? Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:49:36 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems At 09:58 PM 8/19/97 -0600, you wrote: >> >>Your prop and spinner must be balanced and tracking true. >> Bobby Muse(N122B) >> >Everything was tracking properly and is nicely balanced. I'll be sure to look your >spinner over next month. > >Thanks, > >Jeff Scott O no! Now you'll be looking to close. When I see you at the KR Gathering I tell you how I repaired my spinner after two(2) nose gear colapses.... Now (before everyone wants to know) I am not going to tell on the KRNET, you will just have to be at the KR Gathering to find out.. I am looking forward to seeing ya'll there. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:10:14 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 10:00 PM 8/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >This brings up the subject of what happens if you booger up a hole somehow. > I remember that in an old issue of the Newsletter somebody suggested >intentionally drilling the holes oversize, and filling them with epoxy >afterward for a better fit. I wouldn't do that on purpose, but it WOULD >fix a screw-up. I think somebody pooh-poohed it later, as a bad idea, but >we do exactly that for the REALLY critical jobs on Space Shuttle experiment >racks. They had me design a bolt with a grease fitting on it, which would >screw into the hole so that epoxy (Devcon) could be squirted in to make the >fit perfect. These racks are used over and over, with experiments moved >around each time, so things get a little sloppy. The bolt is covered with >release agent before epoxying, and is removed and replaced with the good >stuff (200 AN-3 bolts). If it's good enough for our stress guys, and >signed off by NASA, it's good enough for me! > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > > >> I would suggest drilling the bolt holes slightly undersized and using the >> proper reamer to ream the holes out to fit the bolts properly. You >> really want a precise fit at least on the spar attach bolts where the >> outer and inner fittings bolt together. It's better yet if you can get >> the proper fit for all of the spar attach bolts. A 3/16 or 3/8 drill bit >> is somewhat larger than the 3/16 and 3/8 bolts and will leave you with a >> loose fit. The proper reamer will give you a precise fit. >> >> ------- >> Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >> Mark, I had similiar problem during the construction of my KR. THe holes at the wing attach fittings had been drilled slighty off location of where they should have been. A couple of holes was as much as a half hole enlongated, some were a little enlongated and some were perfect. After a lot of cosulting(talking to people who I thought were in the know - there wasn't a KRNET in those good old days), I filled the holes with Flox/Epoxy and inserted the 3/16" bolts. I used a mold release on the bolts before inserting them into the flox filled holes. Evertthing appears to to be OK. I'm happy with the results. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:10:16 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 08:34 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:19 PM 8/18/97, you wrote: >>I think flox would be better. >> >> > > We used a product called MarineTex in the machine shop which was hands down >WAY stronger than JB Weld. Its good stuff, >Micheal Mims Micheal, Please tell us more about MarineTex. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:31:57 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 05:49 PM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >Micheal, >What are you talking about? Drill holes in the spars to 1/2"???? Aren"t >they talking about the wing attach fittings? > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > Installing 1/2 inch bushings in the wood gives it greater tear out strength, see Toni Bengelis Sport Plane Construction Techniques. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:27:38 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Operating Manual/Handbook -Reply At 05:05 PM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: . You will NEVER be able to duplicate the information or the >people you will meet at a KR Gathering expecially the people. This is true! This year I plan to bring a handy cam so I can film engine installations and talk into the mic at the same time. The still shots without notes just don't hack it! PLus I plan to capture a few video segments and uploading them to the net! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:34:11 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 06:10 PM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >Micheal, Please tell us more about MarineTex. > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > I will pick up a kit and bring it to the gathering. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:05:33 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: WMy KR Website is down Randy has notified me that my website at teleport is not active. I am working with Teleport to re-activate my account which was disabled due to being over disk quota for 14 days. They should get back to me within 12 hours. In the meantime, it is easier for me, and more automatic if users who wish to join KRNET send an email to mailto:majordomo@teleport.com with the body text: subscribe KRNET-L myemailaddress@mycomputer.whatever end Using my webpage http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/krnet_subscribe.htm Just sends me an email, and I have to do some work to make sure the email addresses provided are correct. Most of the time users send me a bad email address and I can't contact them. The majordomo method sends me the REAL email address and is less prone to errors. -- Ross Ross Youngblood Product Specialist Schlumberger Automatic Test Equipment Snail Mail: 1109 NE Burke Pl Corvallis Oregon email: rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (business) rossy@teleport.com (non-business) Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Voicemail (800)538-6838 x1632 Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Cell Phone:(503)881-0692 ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #78 ****************************