From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 12:44 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n090' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #90 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Saturday, September 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 090 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:55:57 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 09:25 AM 9/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > >By the same token, if we would write articles for Kitplanes and or > >Experimenter, we would all become famous and the content of the > >magazines and the circulation numbers would improve dramaticly. > > > > > > -- Ross > > There was a discussion a few days ago concerning lawyers and now the weak > content in some of our favorite publications. Here in lies the problem, who > in their right mind would write a "how to" article and risk the chances of > finding themselves in court defending their ideas (not the fault of the > lawyers mind you). Kitplanes and Sport Aviation are obviously limited as to > what they can and can not publish for fear of being sued. The same fear > weighed heavily on my mind when we WERE writing stuff for the KROnline! I > wrote a 10 page article on how I built my canopy complete with pictures. I > feel almost anyone could reproduce my canopy using this article but I > decided not to publish it. Sorry! Maybe after I have a few hundred hours on > my KR and it (the canopy) has proven itself I would feel better about > sharing a "how to" article and even then it will be a bit scary. I wrote a couple of articles for the KR Newsletter and although the thought of legal liability gave me some pause, I decided that I was worrying needlessly. In fact, in one case, publishing photos to the newsletter yielded me a few letters of hints where I could improve my installation on my landing gear. The value to me that others in remote sites can critque my work is much greater than the risk that someone's family will take me to court for their family members implementation of somthing I published in the newsletter or KRNET. The upside,I am reducing the risk to my life, by getting input from others. The downside, someone might try to get $18.95 from me after assuming they are first in line. Now, I will probably win $5 million in the lottery next week, and my perspective will change. Has Rand Robinson themselves been the target of these type of lawsuits? This would be a good indication. I understand that Jeanette's daugher was going to law school, so perhaps there was some motivation for this. My expectation, is that RR is not a huge financial concern, and building/flying experimental aircraft is a high enough risk activity to make it difficult for judgements to be found against the manuafacturers. I read more often about OTHER kitplane manufacturers being taken to court by customers who paid for kits but never recieved materials. (BD-5?) -- Ross Besides, as was posted before, we are all internet scum anyway. - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 SABER Engineering voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:55:21 -0500 From: kr2builder@juno.com (Richard E Pitman) Subject: Re: KR: Ricky Pitman Ricky Pitman KR2 Builder Marion, Arkansas E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm On Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:14:09 -0400 (EDT) BSHADR@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 97-09-05 00:48:51 EDT, Ricky wrote: > ><< > If I get enough stuff sold, I may still try to make the Gathering. >If > so, I will bring all unsold stuff to the fly market. > > Thanks again > > Ricky Pitman >> > >Ricky: > >There is a reason for everything. Me thinks your attendance at the >gathering >should be made mandatory. In fact, I'll call your doc in the morning >and >have a prescription ordered for just that! Be well and please try to >show >up. It will be good therapy for ya. > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA > > Hey Guys, Well I got my staples taken out of my chest & leg today. Doctor says that I am doing wonderfully. Says I can drive in 2 weeks. Lets see that means I can go to the gathering. Going to call and reinstate reservations (I hope). Anyhow, bring your bucks, because I am going to bring all of my stuff that aint'yet sold. When I get relocated I can start again fresh. Gonna be some good deals on tools and stuff too. Excited again Ricky. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:56:22 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Ricky Pitman/Flymarket Great News Ricky! So, do we now have a volunteer to oversee the flymarket?!? I'm glad things are going well for you. We'll all be glad to see you! Jeff "Making another weak attempt and R. S. style whining" Scott - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > >Well I got my staples taken out of my chest & leg today. Doctor says >that I am doing wonderfully. Says I can drive in 2 weeks. Lets see >that means I can go to the gathering. Going to call and reinstate >reservations (I hope). Anyhow, bring your bucks, because I am going >to bring all of my stuff that aint'yet sold. >When I get relocated I can start again fresh. Gonna be some good >deals on tools and stuff too. > >Excited again > >Ricky. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 22:08:14 +0000 From: darrin Subject: KR: serial number If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to a kr-1b? DARRIN WEST darrinwest@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:43:18 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes In a message dated 97-09-05 12:29:01 EDT, you write: << Ouch... I have found Experimenter magazine to be rather weak in content, I'm now getting the Tech counselor news, it's better, but thin. So this looks like a terrific slam of Kitplanes magazine and Experimenter at the same time... >> I haven't heard of the Tech counselor news. What's it like? What's the subscription cost and their address? Thanks..... Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:53:49 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: serial number The serial no. comes with the plans, also the KR1b was a extented wing model of the KR1. I believe the wing was extented to 27' to make a motorglider out of a simple design. At 10:08 PM 9/5/97 +0000, you wrote: >If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills >and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial >number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? >Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to >a kr-1b? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com > > David Moore Turnkey1@mscomm.com Hesperia, California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:49:32 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: serial number At 10:08 PM 9/5/97 +0000, you wrote: >If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills >and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial >number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? >Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to >a kr-1b? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com If you want, or just make up your own serial number. The serial number origin is irrelevant, it can come from RR , the back of your watch or you could use 928347982-KR-09911 if you like. Remember you don't even have to have a set of plans to build a homebuilt in the US. You can build what you want, how you want, and call it what you feel like. The serial number of my KR will more than likely be what ever n-number I get, unless I need a serial number to get a n number. My plans from RR came with two serial numbers, one for a KR2 and one for a KR2S. I don't think it means that I have to use one of them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:53:04 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: All stub fittings DONE! Bobby I mounted a nut onto the inside of the aileron spar opposite the bolts that hold the aileron control arm. I then screwed in a 3/16 bolt with a locking nut to use as a stop against the mounting screw in the aileron. The screw can be adjusted then locked down with the lock nut. Works great and is simple and easy to install. Regards Parley (N54PB) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:49:19 -0500 From: kr2builder@juno.com (Richard E Pitman) Subject: Re: KR: serial number On Fri, 05 Sep 1997 22:08:14 +0000 darrin writes: >If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills >and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial >number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? >Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 >to >a kr-1b? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com > When I purchased my plans, ( I bought them at a Covington, TN Gathering) I sent in the registration information on myself. In returnn from Janet, (R/R) I got my serial number. IE no plans, no serial number. Ricky Pitman KR2 Builder Marion, Arkansas E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:58:11 -0500 From: kr2builder@juno.com (Richard E Pitman) Subject: Re: KR: Ricky Pitman/Flymarket Well Jeff, I don't know. How does one oversee a flymarket? If that means somone locally supplies a couple of tables and a Chair for the overseer to "recouperate" in while selling everybody elses stuff for them I guess that I am your man. Sincerely , If somone can arrange for some tables, I don't mind sitting around and watching the stuff. Let's see If everyone were to bring $200.00 worth of stuff to sale and 5% comission on 250 folks... hmmmm.... ooops daydreaming, or maybe the pain medicine kicking in. Anyhow, the reservations are made, finally talked my wife into letting me make the drive, much harder than the Dr. SEE YALL THERE. That's Arkansaw talkin. PS on my WEBPAGE 4 SALE stuff the correct address is: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/kr2.htm Ricky Pitman KR2 Builder Marion, Arkansas E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm On Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:56:22 -0600 jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) writes: >Great News Ricky! > >So, do we now have a volunteer to oversee the flymarket?!? > >I'm glad things are going well for you. We'll all be glad to see you! > >Jeff "Making another weak attempt and R. S. style whining" Scott >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >jscott.pilot@juno.com >See N1213W construction and first flight at >http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: >//www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > >> >>Well I got my staples taken out of my chest & leg today. Doctor says > >>that I am doing wonderfully. Says I can drive in 2 weeks. Lets see >>that means I can go to the gathering. Going to call and reinstate >>reservations (I hope). Anyhow, bring your bucks, because I am going >>to bring all of my stuff that aint'yet sold. >>When I get relocated I can start again fresh. Gonna be some good >>deals on tools and stuff too. >> >>Excited again >> >>Ricky. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: lawyers (no archive) >anyone building a plane from advice on the >>Internet (which, in the popular press, is mostly composed of pedophiles, >>stalkers and survivalist cultists) got what he deserved for not knowing what >>he was doing. > >Let's see. I do not file pedestrians, cannot stay up late enough to be a >good >night time stalker, and have been thrown out of too many cults to count. >Where >does that leave me as an Internet dude? > >Ron " I wanna belong to a fringe element " Lee I think it leaves you in the same place it leaves me. I didn't mean these reports are accurate. Besides, filing pedestrians clogs up the teeth of the file worse than aluminum does. . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 20:54:35 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: lawyers (no archive) At 11:46 PM 9/5/97 -0400, you wrote: >I think it leaves you in the same place it leaves me. I didn't mean these >reports are accurate. Besides, filing pedestrians clogs up the teeth of the file worse than aluminum does. . . . > >Mike Taglieri > And what ever you do , NEVER use a grinder on them! I hear the grinding wheel could explode! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:26:24 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Gear Castings, etc. Ross I have matco brakes on my retractrs (KR-2 N54PB). I have flown my KR-2 for 135 hours and the brakes and the retracks work fine. I also was surprised to find that my KR-2 is one of the faster ones out there. My top speed straight and level has been 185 mph with a turbo charged 1835 VW. I routinely cruise at 165 mph on about 5.5 gal/hour. I have checked this several times and against several other aircraft, mostly Long Ezes and Vari-Ezes. Since the recent weight reduction and new paint job I hope to get around 170 mph cruise. Hope this info is helpful. Regards Parley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:31:20 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Weight Loss Well Like a lot of first time builders I over did it. I added extra bracing in several areas that were not called for in the plans. I also had an inner layer of glass on the turtle deck which was removed. I substituted several steel parts with aluminum. I remade the engine cowling and again removed unneeded fiberglass layers. When I finished redoing the turtle deck, the gas tank, and the engine cowlings the whole thing was much lighter. I also sanded the whole aircraft down to the fiberglass and put much lighter filler on and repainted. I would have had the plane back in the air by now but I just bought a new house and have been busy moving. I only have to rebuild the wing gap seals and put the battery back in and I will be ready to fly again. Regards Parley (N54PB) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:17:13 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: Real video and Kitplane Yes I watched the video, it was filmed by the pilot's wife and it was a KR-2. The program indicated and so did the video clip that this was the first flight. The pilot's name was Rick, didn't catch the last name. He took off did a little pio and then after starting his climb lost power on the engine. From what I saw he did the classical mistake of trying to hold the airplane up by pulling back on the stick. The aircraft was about 20 feet in the air and stalled dipping the left wing first. The left wing caught the ground and the aircraft went wing tip over wing tip. Surprisingly, the pilot walked away with minor injuries, mostly to his pants. The aircraft looked like a total loss, the engine broke off as did the cockpit from the instrament panel forward. The news caster said the pilot had taken over 8 years to complete the aircraft. This is all I could glean from the short segment on the T.V. They did show the crash in slow motion twice. Regards Parley (N54PB) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 08:43:46 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > I haven't heard of the Tech counselor news. What's it like? What's the > subscription cost and their address? Thanks..... > > Jim Hayward This is the publication for EAA Technical Counselors. To get it, you have the an EAA Tech Counselor. If I remember correctly, you have to be either an A&P, already completed at least one home built, or be an aeronautical engineer. Then there are a few requirements to "stay current", I think you have to make three EAA inspections per year and/or write some articles for the Tech Counselor news. I hope everyone out there is taking advantage of the EAA Tech Councelor inspections. It is free, easy, and another set of eyes looking over your project. If you have at least three inspections documented over the course of building, AVEMCO will give you a price reduction on hull insurance, and will start it at the first flight. If you also go through the EAA Flight advisor program, they will give an additional reduction in the cost. And the EAA stuff is free. Is this a great deal or what? - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 08:49:14 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: serial number darrin wrote: > > If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills > and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial > number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? > Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to > a kr-1b? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com To expand on what what has already been said, the FAA serial number has nothing to do with the KR serial number. In your case, you could regester as the Darrin West KR-1 Serial number 1. And mine could be the Reid KR-1 serial number 1. Rand uses the serial number to keep track of the people that they will help. If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will not help you. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:11:28 +0000 From: darrin Subject: Re: KR: serial number David Moore wrote: > > The serial no. comes with the plans, also the KR1b was a extented wing > model of the KR1. I believe the wing was extented to 27' to make a > motorglider out of a simple design. > > At 10:08 PM 9/5/97 +0000, you wrote: > >If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills > >and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial > >number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? > >Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to > >a kr-1b? > > > > DARRIN WEST > > darrinwest@juno.com > > > > > > > > David Moore > Turnkey1@mscomm.com > Hesperia, California > > Thanks david, do you know any more on the 1b option? Has anyone built a 1b? I would like to know more about it. I supose you could have two sets of wings for the best of both worlds? DARRIN WEST darrinwest@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:20:38 +0000 From: darrin Subject: Re: KR: serial number Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 10:08 PM 9/5/97 +0000, you wrote: > >If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills > >and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial > >number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? > >Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to > >a kr-1b? > > > > DARRIN WEST > > darrinwest@juno.com > > If you want, or just make up your own serial number. The serial number > origin is irrelevant, it can come from RR , the back of your watch or you > could use 928347982-KR-09911 if you like. Remember you don't even have to > have a set of plans to build a homebuilt in the US. You can build what you > want, how you want, and call it what you feel like. The serial number of > my KR will more than likely be what ever n-number I get, unless I need a > serial number to get a n number. My plans from RR came with two serial > numbers, one for a KR2 and one for a KR2S. I don't think it means that I > have to use one of them. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ > _____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 Thanks for the info Michael, I think the plans route is the way to go. At $60.00 for kr-1 plans, you can't go wrong. I would feel better about completing my bird with them. Kr-2 plans, however go for $165.00, wow, what a jump! I guess it's that supply and demand thing! These prices are from lit. received from RR last week. DARRIN WEST darrinwest@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:33:07 +0000 From: darrin Subject: Re: KR: serial number Donald Reid wrote: > > darrin wrote: > > > > If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills > > and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial > > number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? > > Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to > > a kr-1b? > > > > DARRIN WEST > > darrinwest@juno.com > > To expand on what what has already been said, the FAA serial number has > nothing to do with the KR serial number. In your case, you could regester > as the Darrin West KR-1 Serial number 1. And mine could be the Reid KR-1 > serial number 1. Rand uses the serial number to keep track of the people > that they will help. If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will > not help you. > -- > Don Reid > donreid@erols.com Don, do you have any info on faa as far as who to contact to register a project? DARRIN WEST darrinwest@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:16:19 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Real video and Kitplane In a message dated 97-09-06 08:38:07 EDT, you write: << From: parley@anv.net (parley t. byington) Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Reply-to: krnet-l@teleport.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Yes I watched the video, it was filmed by the pilot's wife and it was a KR-2. The program indicated and so did the video clip that this was the first flight. The pilot's name was Rick, didn't catch the last name. He took off did a little pio and then after starting his climb lost power on the engine. From what I saw he did the classical mistake of trying to hold the airplane up by pulling back on the stick. The aircraft was about 20 feet in the air and stalled dipping the left wing first. The left wing caught the ground and the aircraft went wing tip over wing tip. Surprisingly, the pilot walked away with minor injuries, mostly to his pants. The aircraft looked like a total loss, the engine broke off as did the cockpit from the instrament panel forward. The news caster said the pilot had taken over 8 years to complete the aircraft. This is all I could glean from the short segment on the T.V. They did show the crash in slow motion twice. >> Very graphic, and all too common, illustration of "I've got to save the airplane!" As I've said before, make sure you have a plan for WHEN (not if) your engine fails during your test period (and after) that includes lowering the nose to maintain/achieve controllable flying airspeed, and land straight ahead (or execute a controlled crash). Repairing the gear and bottom of the airplane after running off the end of the runway, or replacing the wings after driving between two trees is a heck of alot better than starting over from scratch, or worse yet, being dead. This guy was lucky. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:07:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Willard561@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Ricky Pitman&plywood Ricky: I had a friend who got his 3rd class medical back after a quad bypass, the secret is to find a AME who has done it before and knows how to give the FAA what the want for documentation. Also on the subject of plywood it comes in 3&5 ply in some of the thinner sizes I think strength is similar although I can't find my CAM 18 right now to verify that. Bill Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:01:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: serial number At 08:49 AM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote: . If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will not help you. >-- >Don Reid >donreid@erols.com > But I bought mine from RR, what excuse do they use in that case? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:25:57 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Gear Castings, etc. Parley, What is the weight of your KR? You have got to be light!!! Dave Moore At 09:26 PM 9/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >Ross > > I have matco brakes on my retractrs (KR-2 >N54PB). I have flown my KR-2 for 135 hours and the brakes and >the retracks work fine. I also was surprised to find that my KR-2 is >one of the faster ones out there. My top speed straight and level has >been 185 mph with a turbo charged 1835 VW. I routinely cruise at 165 >mph on about 5.5 gal/hour. I have checked this several times and >against several other aircraft, mostly Long Ezes and Vari-Ezes. > >Since the recent weight reduction and new paint job I hope to get >around 170 mph cruise. Hope this info is helpful. > >Regards >Parley > > David Moore Turnkey1@mscomm.com Hesperia, California ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:56:42 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Real video and Kitplane Glider lessons is a good option for learning that an AIR-plane will still fly without an engine. And it's a heck of a lot of fun, just quiet. Dave Moore At 10:16 AM 9/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-09-06 08:38:07 EDT, you write: > ><< From: parley@anv.net (parley t. byington) > Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com > Reply-to: krnet-l@teleport.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Yes > > I watched the video, it was filmed by the pilot's wife and it was a > KR-2. The program indicated and so did the video clip that this was > the first flight. The pilot's name was Rick, didn't catch the last > name. He took off did a little pio and then after starting his climb > lost power on the engine. From what I saw he did the classical mistake > of trying to hold the airplane up by pulling back on the stick. The > aircraft was about 20 feet in the air and stalled dipping the left wing > first. The left wing caught the ground and the aircraft went wing tip > over wing tip. Surprisingly, the pilot walked away with minor > injuries, mostly to his pants. The aircraft looked like a total loss, > the engine broke off as did the cockpit from the instrament panel > forward. > The news caster said the pilot had taken over 8 years to complete > the aircraft. This is all I could glean from the short segment on the > T.V. They did show the crash in slow motion twice. > >> > >Very graphic, and all too common, illustration of "I've got to save the >airplane!" As I've said before, make sure you have a plan for WHEN (not if) >your engine fails during your test period (and after) that includes lowering >the nose to maintain/achieve controllable flying airspeed, and land straight >ahead (or execute a controlled crash). Repairing the gear and bottom of the >airplane after running off the end of the runway, or replacing the wings >after driving between two trees is a heck of alot better than starting over >from scratch, or worse yet, being dead. This guy was lucky. > >Cheers! >Rick Junkin >EagleGator@aol.com >St Charles MO > > David Moore Turnkey1@mscomm.com Hesperia, California ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:28:37 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: major screwup? In a message dated 97-09-06 03:33:10 EDT, you write: << I built my boat with 3 ply 3/32 plywood. The manual calls for 5 ply but could not find any 5 ply 3/32 plywood in ASS catalogs. figured it was a misprint in the manual. But now I see on Marks website in his spar section a scarfed 5 ply piece of plywood. I hope this is a 1/4" piece. Have I screwed up royally? >> Netheads: Mark is out of town this week on vacation. He will not see KRNet messages until he gets back next week. Thus he will not comment on the net until his return. Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:28:37 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Ricky Pitman/Flymarket In a message dated 97-09-06 02:53:21 EDT, you write: << I don't know. How does one oversee a flymarket? If that means somone locally supplies a couple of tables and a Chair for the overseer to "recouperate" in while selling everybody elses stuff for them I guess that I am your man. Sincerely , If somone can arrange for some tables, I don't mind sitting around and watching the stuff. Let's see If everyone were to bring $200.00 worth of stuff to sale and 5% comission on 250 folks... hmmmm... >> Don is going to have tables and chairs. I think we can sucker a few people to spend some time in the fly market "penalty box" and spread out the shifts enough so no one person will rot there. Beside, I'll bring some sticker that the guys can use to put there name on for inventory tracking purposes. I also believe KR guys have a high level of honesty and theft will be a non issue. Sorry Ricky, KRNet gets the first 70% of the funds collected and you'll have to fight the seller for your cut of the rest... :-) Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA PS - Glad you got your wife's "medical" ok and will be joining us. You can eat veggie burgers with me at the BBQ. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:27:42 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: serial number darrin wrote: > Don, do you have any info on faa as far as who to contact to > register a project? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com All of the information on registration is in a government publication called Advisory Circular 20-27D, Certification and Opeation of Amateur-Built Aircraft. I got mine from the local FAA office, no charge. The EAA has all sorts of reference material to help the process. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:33:53 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: serial number Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:49 AM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > . If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will not help you. > > But I bought mine from RR, what excuse do they use in that case? :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand Well, here I go making assumptions again. I assumed that they would not help a second party plans purchaser since I have read that other places would not provide any technical assistance unless you bought plans directly. This ensures that two or more planes are not built from one set of plans. That would not be fair to the design company. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:04:52 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: Re: gathering (and progress) Micheal Mims wrote: > > You making it to Perry? > Mike, Yeah, I'll only be there saturday as I'm meeting up with an old friend in Oklahma city friday. I'm sure looking forward to it! I've never been up in a KR so I'll be pushing for a ride or two. I could also use some motivation as work has been slow lately. One outer panel is done and the other needs glass on the wing tip and sand-fill-sand-fi... Once that's done I'll move the fuselage back into the garage which will be a nice change from rubbing wing panels. It's been easy to not work on the wings as I grow bored with the repetition of the second panel. I bet a good look at a bunch of happy KR pilots will get me to turn up the wick a little. Looking forward to seeing you at Perry. - -Peter- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:41:18 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: serial number darrin wrote: > > If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills > and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial > number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? > Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to > a kr-1b? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com I think that for registration purposes you can use just about any serial number you want on your homebuilt... but I used the serial number that came from my plans. I think the KR-1B is a longer set of wings, but I don't know if these are available from Rand Robinson. -- Regards Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 17:44:20 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: serial number At 10:08 PM 9/5/97 +0000, you wrote: >If I purchase a kr project with no paperwork other than a few bills >and a bill of sale, I purchase a set of plans from RR, does the serial >number for my plane come with the plans? If not, where do I get one? >Also, does anyone have any info on the kr-1b and how to convrt a kr-1 to >a kr-1b? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.com > Darrin, RR should be able to help you with the serial number. A friend and I bought up a nice KR-1 boat a couple of years ago with the thought of making it into a -1B (still thinking about it, although we currently have the project for sale- I've moved) . My friend did most of the paperwork, contacting RR, etc. I believe, the way it turned out was that we were sold the plans for the long wing after we proved that we had purchased KR-1 plans. I believe RR was able to give us the serial number since we knew the original builder. Anyway, as it turned out, we did get the plans for the long wing. If you want any more specifics, I can contact my friend and he can refresh me on the procedure. Good Luck Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:50:52 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: serial number > Don, do you have any info on faa as far as who to contact to > register a project? > > DARRIN WEST > darrinwest@juno.comYou write the FAA and request the forma, or go to your local GADO. Then you need to get a notorized bill of sale or statement indicating you built it. It all takes about 60-90 days, and when you are done you get a nice 3x5 card with your N number in small print on it... Tony Bengelis books cover the address and forms required, and their is an AC (advisiory circular) on this. I'm told the regional FAA office here sends out a homebuilders packet. I would give your local FAA office a call to see if you can get one of these nifty packages. In the meantime, if someone else doen't beat me to it, I will post the letter and address I sent to the FAA to get my N number... per the Sportplane builder book. - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:52:37 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Real video and Kitplane David Moore wrote: > > Glider lessons is a good option for learning that an AIR-plane will still > fly without an engine. And it's a heck of a lot of fun, just quiet. It's a lot of fun and must be safer too, as you can solo in a glider at 14. - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:47:47 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Pitch stability/sensitivity Hi Netheads: This was a post on the Dragonlist today. The poster (Nathan Rambo) is a DFly builder and flyer. I believe he also is a Tech or Flight Advisor, or maybe both, in Southern CA. If memory (always dangerous) serves me right, he also is an Aeronautical engineer. He has been a very active poster to the DFly list and is well respected in the tandem wing community. There was a question posted recently that went unanswered. The fellow who asked the question was new to the list and the tandem community. Nathan responded after no one else did. The subject matter, although for a different bird, is still applicable to many other planes, including KRs. He does a good job 'splain'in it. Enjoy: <> Not a directly applicable fix for us, but good food for thought. Another way of saying watch the CG and keep it forward. Nothing new, just said differently. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #90 ****************************