From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 12:45 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n097' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #97 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Monday, September 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 097 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:32:54 -0400 (EDT) From: bvermeul@concentric.net Subject: Re: KR: The Perry Report 9/8/97 > >Do you still have any videos of the '96 Gathering left and are you going >to bring some to sell. I'll bet they could be sold from the fly market. >I'll be happy to sell during my watch. Besides, I still haven't bought >my '96 video yet. > >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >jscott.pilot@juno.com >See N1213W construction and first flight at >http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: >//www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > Hey Jeff, Have I got videos? Does a bear live in the woods? You bet:) I was planning on bringing some along and we'll be taking orders for the 97 video while we're there. I really appreciate your offer to help sell during your watch. I don't know, but if you do real well at taking orders or selling videos, I might just owe you a free 96 Gathering video. By the way KRNetters, five bucks of any video purchase goes towards the expenses of the KR Gathering. Enough said. E-mail me personally if your interested. We'll (Jim Fields, myself, and a cameraman)be leaving Michigan on Thursday for Perry. I can hardly wait. I'm soooooo excited I think I gotta go to the bathroom. Bye for now, Video Bob bvermeul@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:50:18 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Taildragger Ride at Perry ? I have decided that I need a bit more dual taildragger time. Is anyone at Perry able to provide a bit of "proficiency time" in a taildragger KR-2(s); to include landings and take-offs? Willing to pay reasonable "wear & tear" costs: fuel, oil, tire/ brake wear, engine depreciation, bug removal, etc. My weight is 165 lbs. Ron "Can't get past the taxi stage" Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:35:36 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Taildragger Ride at Perry ? In a message dated 97-09-14 14:54:33 EDT, you write: << I have decided that I need a bit more dual taildragger time. Is anyone at Perry able to provide a bit of "proficiency time" in a taildragger KR-2(s); to include landings and take-offs? Willing to pay reasonable "wear & tear" costs: fuel, oil, tire/ brake wear, engine depreciation, bug removal, etc. My weight is 165 lbs. Ron "Can't get past the taxi stage" Lee >> Ron: In the past, Dan Deihl and Jim Faugh both have been willing to "instruct" newbees in the fine (fun) parts of KRflying. I spoke with Dan earlier this week, and he had just been in CO Springs for a weekend jaunt. Maybe you could "entice" him to fly over with someone and then fly back with you and give you some practice on the way to the gathering. I don't think Dan weights more than 145-150 lbs with muddy boots on. If you need Dan's direct work #, Email me private. I'm reluctant to post it without Dan's blessing. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:57:31 -0700 From: Robert Covington Subject: KR: Re: Taildragger Ride at Perry ? >I have decided that I need a bit more dual taildragger time. > >Is anyone at Perry able to provide a bit of "proficiency time" >in a taildragger KR-2(s); to include landings and take-offs? >Willing to pay reasonable "wear & tear" costs: fuel, oil, tire/ >brake wear, engine depreciation, bug removal, etc. > >My weight is 165 lbs. > >Ron "Can't get past the taxi stage" Lee Hey Ron, A recent groundloop didn't convince you of this did it? Just making sure... ;) Anyway to get past the taxi stage, put your hand high in the air, adopt your finest New York accent, and yell really loudly, "hey TAXI!, TAXI!!" That's free advice. In the more serious dept., do you not have an instructor available where you taxi? Robert "Gonna Nose Drag It" Covington ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:04:34 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: Taildragger Ride at Perry ? BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-09-14 14:54:33 EDT, you write: > > << I have decided that I need a bit more dual taildragger time. > > Is anyone at Perry able to provide a bit of "proficiency time" > in a taildragger KR-2(s); to include landings and take-offs? > Willing to pay reasonable "wear & tear" costs: fuel, oil, tire/ > brake wear, engine depreciation, bug removal, etc. > > My weight is 165 lbs. > > Ron "Can't get past the taxi stage" Lee >> > > Ron: > > In the past, Dan Deihl and Jim Faugh both have been willing to "instruct" > newbees in the fine (fun) parts of KRflying. I spoke with Dan earlier this > week, and he had just been in CO Springs for a weekend jaunt. Maybe you > could "entice" him to fly over with someone and then fly back with you and > give you some practice on the way to the gathering. I don't think Dan > weights more than 145-150 lbs with muddy boots on. > > If you need Dan's direct work #, Email me private. I'm reluctant to post it > without Dan's blessing. > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA It's my plan to give rides at the Gathering. The priority of all the pilots is to give rides to people who are ready to fly or nearing completion. As a side note, as a common courtesy one ride per person is the best way to go since there will not be enough airplanes to give everyone rides and to ride more than once is taking away from others opportunity. To answer the question, yes, I would be happy to take you up and I will first give you a lesson on getting the tail up and going down the runway WITHOUT lifting off. This is critical in the first stages of learning. We will then taxi back to take off. Next we will go up and I will allow you to get the feel of the plane. Last we will do a missed approach which you can fly and I can demonstrate controling airspeed and slips. Last we will land the plane (hopefully only once ie no bounce). Introduce yourself to me when you get there and you will get priority. I'm looking forward to the Gathering and I know everyone else is too. (By the way, does anyone know where Perry is??? Just kidding.) Marti is also great at instructing people in the KR. As far as Dan Diehl is concerned, he sold his plane to Gene and I'm not sure if Gene is giving rides yet or not. - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:38:25 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Re: Taildragger Ride at Perry ? >Hey Ron, > >A recent groundloop didn't convince you of this did it? >Just making sure... ;) > No ground loop...yet > >In the more serious dept., do you not have an instructor available where >you taxi? > I lost my tail dragger instructor...unknown reason...before i could get an hour of main wheel landings in. Ron >Robert "Gonna Nose Drag It" Covington > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:34:04 -0400 From: "Jim Daly" Subject: KR: Re: flexible fuel feed On September 12, 1997 14:47 Bob Smith smithr@wadsworth.org wrote: > > For what its worth, I have used the flexible fuel feed (silicone tubing > and "clunk weight") on RC planes. While it was generally reliable, on 2 > occasions it malfunctioned resulting in sucking air and engine stoppage: > 1) tubing came off the rigid connection 2)tubing broke in half at the > rigid connection. > > True this can happen.... how old was the installation? Gota chnage the tubing every once and a while! I've been flying R/C for over 20 years.....never had either problem! Can't splainit...... Had an RV Guy respond to this posting.....said that's what he's using in his RV-6! I still think it's a viable option. Jim "MId-Air" Daly Mississauga, Ontario Canada mailto:rcscale@interlog.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:36:14 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Liquid Foam In a message dated 97-09-14 00:21:18 EDT, you write: >I was "lurking and saw my name mentioned...Seems there is a question on the >use of "liquid foam" and whether or not it continues to expand. >This has been a question without a definite answer ever since I was >building KRs 20 years ago. . . . Thanks for the reminiscence -- this is the best detail on how to use the liquid foam I've seen yet. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Rollbars; steel tubes > I went a little bit overboard on mine since it >does >>not represent a significant increase in weight. I used 3/4" X 0.049 steel >>tubing. It is "U" shaped, bolted to a large bearing block at the bottom >>longerons at the back edge of the baggage area. Then braced at head level >back >>to the top longeron and diagonally braced from pilot head to passenger's >right >>shoulder, then to pilot's left hip. I am also using it as the shoulder >harness >>attachment points. >I like the sound of Don's design. . . . > A steel tube of this kind has the extra advantage that it continues to >absorb energy as it distorts and collapses - a big plus. Unlike, say, spruce? This is a bigger can of worms than the rollbar question. Do you mean that a Sonerai of similar weight and speed could resist a crash better than a KR because its steel tubes would absorb the energy as they distort? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:42:12 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: KR: Latest Web update here Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml I finished the cowel, cut-paste-sand that is. I won't paint until I have run her up and down a bumpy taxiway and discovered all the cracks. Rockliffe airport is closed for the next 3 weeks so I guess it will have to wait. If anyone is interested in seeing how I secured the front of the carb and the air filter, I have added them to the pages as well. Pictures are a bit dark. sorry. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:45:44 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web site - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > The spars were split through the mounting bolts by someone in > >a hurry to mount the wings. Did it to both sides too! Hurry kills! > > > > > > HOw were the spars split via the mounting holes? Over tightening? Man > someone would have really had to put the torque to those bolts to split the > spar! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims Not by overtightening. They were speared by the support brackkets on the wings. He was in a hurry to put the wings on and had no help, so he just pused too hard. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:00:59 -0500 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Re: Rollbars; steel tubes At 23:37 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >> I went a little bit overboard on mine since it >>does >>>not represent a significant increase in weight. I used 3/4" X 0.049 steel >>>tubing. It is "U" shaped, bolted to a large bearing block at the bottom >>>longerons at the back edge of the baggage area. Then braced at head level >>back >>>to the top longeron and diagonally braced from pilot head to passenger's >>right >>>shoulder, then to pilot's left hip. I am also using it as the shoulder >>harness >>>attachment points. > >>I like the sound of Don's design. . . . >> A steel tube of this kind has the extra advantage that it continues to >>absorb energy as it distorts and collapses - a big plus. > >Unlike, say, spruce? This is a bigger can of worms than the rollbar >question. Do you mean that a Sonerai of similar weight and speed could >resist a crash better than a KR because its steel tubes would absorb the >energy as they distort? > >Mike Taglieri > > Wood - a natural composite - like the man made ones has good strength for weight but when it's bust, it's bust! Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:08:50 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web site At 11:45 PM 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote: Not by overtightening. They were speared by the support brackkets on the >wings. He was in a hurry to put the wings on and had no help, so he just >pused too hard. > >- Cary - > UCK!! I bet he came close to tears! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:30:49 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Rollbars; steel tubes At 11:00 PM 9/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >Wood - a natural composite - like the man made ones has good strength for weight but when it's bust, it's bust! > >Regards >brian whatcott >Altus OK > Im not sure this should be treated as a negative aspect though, look at how many KR crashes people have walked away from and the airplane is a total pile of sticks! For the most part the KR looks like it does a pretty darn good job of sucking up all that energy in a crash, just look at the crash photos on Wild Bills page! As far as roll-over protection goes, I build my turtledeck, head-rest bulkhead, and roll-over bulkhead (for lack of a better name) as a means to support this thing if it decides to flip over on its back! If you want to see go to: http://pw2.netcom.com/~mimsmand/fuselage.html The top six pictures will show what I am talking about. Both bulkheads have two layers of 8oz bid each side and its all tied together with two 8oz tapes and flox. Pressure applied to the top of these members is spread out onto the plywood shelf below and then the top longerons but it doesn't stop there. I built sort of a network of 5/8 spruce stock under the shelf to carry some of the load down to the bottom longeron and aft spar. There are four extra pieces of spruce sq stock not including the two called for in the plans. There are two pieces of spruce that are 5/8 x 1.5 inches that carry the load from the area right under the headrest bulkhead down to the rear spar, they are also used as the supports for the seat back. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:51:25 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web site - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > >pushed too hard. > > > >- Cary - > > > > UCK!! I bet he came close to tears! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. Nope. He didn't even notice. Whats more, the guy I bought it off said he had flown it like than. More guts than brains. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:37:59 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: Honeycomb - ---------------- Anyone in the Seattle area. I was at the Boeing surplus store and I just picked up some Phenolic Honeycomb for $3.50 a sheet. They had it priced at $1.00 per pound. The sheets are 54 by 96 and 7/16 thick. I couldn't believe the price. I am not sure what I will use it for yet, but most likely, I will make my seat and seat back with it. In anycase it will be fun to experiment with. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:41:31 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress This weekend was a good one for progress! Needless to say I don't need the gathering for motivation! But I guess I will go anyway! Aux Fuel tank: I made the bottom, top, and front pieces of the aux tank on Friday night. Saturday I glassed them on the inside with two layers of 6 oz cloth and lots of epoxy to make sure there will be NO LEAKS! I used peel ply all around the outside edges where the flox and tapes will bond during assembly. After laying up all the glass I noticed I had a bit of epoxy left so I mixed up a batch of flox and glued the left and right tank sides to the spars. This morning I trimmed the pieces until the fit was perfect and they are now ready to install. Control cables and elevator counter weight: Sunday was another milestone (well at least to me it was), I made the two elevator cables and rigged my elevator controls. I casted the lead weight for the balance weigh and installed it tonight. It took about 1.25 pounds of lead to achieve 100% balance. It was sure nice to move the stick back and forth and watch the elevator go up and down! Sounds pretty basic but I guess some of you know what I mean! After I added the balance weight the controls sure felt nice! Just a slight bump and the stick glided to its stops! Reminded me of the old DHC-2! Anyway you can see a few new pictures at these two locations: http://pw2.netcom.com/~mimsmand/fuel.html and http://pw2.netcom.com/~mimsmand/controls.html scroll to the bottom of each page. The pictures of the counter balance suck! I will try to post a few better ones tomorrow night. Four days and counting!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:22:05 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: fuel guages required At 12:23 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote: Well, like I said, I'm very skeptical of the >>"Y" scheme, and will take appropriate measures to prevent sucking air >>rather than fuel. The one-way trap door header tank within the wingtank >>is still my plan. > >I guess this could work with something like a toilet-ball float mechanism in >reverse to close off the end of the tube when the fluid level went below a >certain level. Aviation batteries work this way, with vents that close when >inverted. Make such a design with a float instead of a lead plug and you're >all set, but you'd never get all the usable fuel out before it closed. > >Mike Taglieri > > Well if you really wanted to use a 'Y' tube then you could use a check valve in each leg of the 'Y' but that wouldn't follow the KISS princple, now would it? Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:56:31 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: Rollbars; steel tubes MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > A steel tube of this kind has the extra advantage that it continues to > >absorb energy as it distorts and collapses - a big plus. > > Unlike, say, spruce? This is a bigger can of worms than the rollbar > question. Do you mean that a Sonerai of similar weight and speed could > resist a crash better than a KR because its steel tubes would absorb the > energy as they distort? > > Mike Taglieri The answer to your question is a qualified, YES. Any type of crash and the loads imposed on the structure are a "random" event. So much depends on point of impact, energy transfer, structure, etc, etc, etc. It is very dificult to analyze the possible scenarios. That is one reason why auto companies test crash so many cars. Steel tubing will flex up to a point, and then will deform. The flexing and deformation absorb energy. Wood will flex to a point of failure, and then turn into splinters. Fiberglass has the same behavior. FWIW: When a A/C designer uses a material that fails like steel, they typically have a 50% margin of safety; that is, design the part to 150% of the desired strength. Fiberglass would be designed to have a 100% margin of safety, or 200% of the desired strength. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:32:58 -0700 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Looking for plans (no archive) Is there anyone you know of who has "Teenie Two" or "Hummelbird" plans they would like to sell? Also, does anyone out there have any 1/2 VW conversion plans or manuals they would like to sell or dispose of? A fellow in my EAA chapter is looking for this info. If so, please respond directly to me: enewbold@sprynet.com Thanks. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:51:37 -0500 From: kr2builder@juno.com (Richard E Pitman) Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 project wanted Have him see me at the gathering. I am bringing all of of my unsold stuff, wood, foam, fiberglass kit, etc. Check out my web page as indicateed below for a complete list. Tell him prices are negotiable if he buys all. Already deeply discounted. Ricky Pitman KR2 Builder Marion, Arkansas E-Mail to: KR2Builder@juno.com Web Page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~rnricky/Ricky/Default.htm On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:09:46 -0500 ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) writes: >Netters, > >A friend of mine (located central Illinois) is very serious about >acquiring >a KR-2 project in the boat stage or there-abouts. He has also >advertised for >one in Trade-A-Plane. He recently bought a KR-2 project mainly for >the >engine (glue joints are questionable), so he's hot on picking up a >good boat >to hang the engine on. He WILL be attending the Gathering at Perry, >so >bring pictures if you have/know one for sale. > > >Ed Janssen > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:18:16 -0500 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: Latest Web update here Cary Honeywell wrote: > > Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca > Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ > KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml > > I finished the cowel, cut-paste-sand that is. I won't paint until I have > run her up and down a bumpy taxiway and discovered all the cracks. > Rockliffe airport is closed for the next 3 weeks so I guess it will have to > wait. > > If anyone is interested in seeing how I secured the front of the carb and > the air filter, I have added them to the pages as well. Pictures are a bit > dark. sorry. > > - Cary - Rockliffe Airport.... my parents were both stationed there during WW2 and met, married after the war. I have an uncle in Stittsville. Nice to hear we have a good KR person in the area if we ever visit. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:46:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 project wanted HI Anybody out there need a vw short block,good for a 1700 cc-- 1800cc ?? I bought it 5 yrs ago, and never got to use it . It was built in 1987 and I have the receipt when sold for $300.00 I dont know what they sell for now. The eng. was built by Stephens Parts and Mach. out of Venice Calif. I have 4 cams, a crank shaft , a set of 1800 cc cylinders with pistons also. I'll sell the whole thing for $200.00.. Being I retired the KR , I wont need them. WildBill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:22:42 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 project wanted Bill, Sold! I'll take it. How far do I have to drive to get it? Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Krwr1@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 project wanted > Date: Monday, September 15, 1997 4:46 PM > > HI > Anybody out there need a vw short block,good for a 1700 cc-- 1800cc ?? > > I bought it 5 yrs ago, and never got to use it . It was built in > 1987 and I have the receipt when sold for $300.00 I dont know what they > sell for now. > > The eng. was built by Stephens Parts and Mach. out of Venice Calif. > > I have 4 cams, a crank shaft , a set of 1800 cc cylinders with pistons > also. > > > I'll sell the whole thing for $200.00.. Being I retired the KR , I wont > need them. > > WildBill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:13:36 -0400 (EDT) From: LDeckert@aol.com Subject: KR: Canopy lift struts Hi folks, I am in the process of trying to figure out how to use those gas-charged struts on my conopy. I though I saw (and saved) a note from someone that said they had used some from a VW, but I can't find it. Has anybody succesfully used these things? If so, make like a gossip columnist and tell all!!!! Larry Deckert Sandy, Ut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:22:15 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Gathering Fly Market HRNetheads: If you do not plan to attend, but have things to sell at the fly market, you can Email me privately with a list of what you have for sell, or what you want to buy. I'll print your Emails and take it with me to Perry to post on our FlyMarket Message board. No charge, but if you do sell something, it would be neighborly of you to donate a few bucks to the pot for the 98 Gathering. Please be sure I have the messages by Wed 9/17/97 5 PM PST. Subject line needs to say "KR Fly Market". Include your name, address and phone number with best time to call you. The buyers/sellers will make the contact themselves. The donation portion is on the honor system, besides, if a guy wanted to shaft the group we don't want his stinking money anyway! :-) My sense is that everyone is too good for this to ever happen. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:41:23 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR:Turbo-prop KR-2 Hello everyone! I had the oportunity to see Steve Trentman's turbo-prop KR-2 on Saturday. It is just incredible to see a KR-2 taxi up and only hear the sound of a turbine running. I couldn't seem to get Steve to talk much about his KR-2 though. All I could get out of him was that he was going to try to make it to the gathering. I also overheard that he was now cruising at about 180 MPH. Steve's Kr would look great if it had at least a couple of extra feet between the cockpit and the tail. It just looks kind of weird with the long nose and short tail. All I know is that it sure sounded great and I heard a few =46-16 pilots say that they would love to fly it. (Steve and I am currently serving in the Oklahoma Air National Guard in Tulsa.) Well thats all for now. See you in Perry!!! Brian J Bland Claremore, Ok bbland@busprod.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:34:25 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: KR Gathering Fly Market On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:22:15 -0400 (EDT) BSHADR@aol.com writes: > >HRNetheads: > >If you do not plan to attend, but have things to sell at the fly market, you >can Email me privately with a list of what you have for sell, or what you >want to buy. I'll print your Emails and take it with me to Perry to post on >our FlyMarket Message board. No charge, but if you do sell something, it >would be neighborly of you to donate a few bucks to the pot for the 98 >Gathering. > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA > It's beginnig to look like we could build a plane in a few days just with the stuff at the fly market. :o) Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:32:35 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Canopy lift struts On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:13:36 -0400 (EDT) LDeckert@aol.com writes: >Hi folks, > >I am in the process of trying to figure out how to use those gas-charged >struts on my conopy. I though I saw (and saved) a note from someone that said >they had used some from a VW, but I can't find it. > >Has anybody succesfully used these things? If so, make like a gossip >columnist and tell all!!!! > >Larry Deckert >Sandy, Ut > > I've got gas shocks for the canopy on my bird although they are probably not VW. (See the web pages in my signature.) One thing I would advise is to stay with some fairly light pressure struts as too high of pressure will tend to tear the ends out of either the fuselage or the canopy frame or both. I ended up bedding an aluminum plate inside the canopy frame to keep the gas shock attach points from tearing out of the canopy. This happened twice before it ever made it to the airport. It will be on display in Perry on Friday. Don Betchan also used gas struts with a little different configuration on his KR as well. No doubt his plane will also be on display since we'll be at his airport. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:49:43 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Canopy lift struts LDeckert@aol.com wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I am in the process of trying to figure out how to use those gas-charged > struts on my conopy. I though I saw (and saved) a note from someone that > said they had used some from a VW, but I can't find it. > Larry Deckert > Sandy, Ut I used a set from a late model Honda hatchback. They are short stroke units, about 13-14 inches long when compressed. The only advise I can offer is be prepared for a lot of force. The structure will have to be strong to handle it. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:14:25 -0700 From: Robert Covington Subject: KR: Re:Canopy lift struts >LDeckert@aol.com wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> I am in the process of trying to figure out how to use those gas-charged >> struts on my conopy. I though I saw (and saved) a note from someone that >> said they had used some from a VW, but I can't find it. >> Larry Deckert >> Sandy, Ut > >I used a set from a late model Honda hatchback. They are short stroke >units, about 13-14 inches long when compressed. The only advise I can offer >is be prepared for a lot of force. The structure will have to be strong to >handle it. >-- >Don Reid >donreid@erols.com How about making your own struts with some tubing enclosing some springs of the proper force. Might not stress your canopy and fuselage so much. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:28:40 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Canopy lift struts At 08:13 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I am in the process of trying to figure out how to use those gas-charged >struts on my conopy. I though I saw (and saved) a note from someone that said >they had used some from a VW, but I can't find it. > >Has anybody succesfully used these things? If so, make like a gossip >columnist and tell all!!!! > >Larry Deckert >Sandy, Ut > > Larry, Are you going to the Kr Gathering? I use a gas strut to hold up and to hold down my canopy. The struts are about 7" long when compressed and 9" when extended. They came off of LEER Camper shell side windows. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:13:10 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: Canopy lift struts Larry I used a gas stut on my KR-2, however my canopy is hinged along the front of the canopy not on the side. I got the strut from my local Checker auto supply store at a cost of about $30.00. I us one that when it is fully extended measures 26" and about 15" compressed. I attached the fuselage end to the same bracket that I use to lock the canopy down on the side. Keep in mind that my KR-2 is a single place and so I enter it on the left side. The stut is a little in the way when raised if it were being used for passenger entry. Hope this information helps. Regards Parley (N54PB) Henderson NV ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:12:59 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: I HATE vinylester!!!! I just finished floxing and taping the four sides of my first wing tank into position. I'm lucky that all I have to throw away is several brushes, 10 pairs of gloves, and a pair of scissors. It could have been my spars. Although I'm using the minimum 1% ratio at 72 degrees, this stuff becomes incredibly sticky in 10 minutes. You can't put anything down, without stepping on it first to pull it loose. Place a tape, and when you try to let go you pull a string loose, and unravel the whole thing, screwing up the joint. I sure wish I'd known how this stuff was before I made all of my tank panels out of it. I thought it would be smart to flox fillet and tape all of the joints in the tank (except the bottom) at one time to enhance integrity. Wrong. And you can't use packing tape as a release agent, or polyethylene to layup the glass. Vinylester shrivels it up. I watched in amazement as a piece of 24"x 24" polyethylene rolled itself up completely into a perfect 1/2" diameter hollow tube, immediately after peeling it away from my layup. It's too hard to explain how I'm trying to do this, but suffice it to say that this isn't the way to do it. If you can't do it in ten minutes, use something else. Too bad I don't have a couple of airplanes to practice on. My recommendation is to avoid vinylester at all costs, or you too may have a pair of scissors glued to the inside of your wing tank forever... Go ahead, Tell me how wonderful it is. I ain't listenin'. You people who haven't made your fuel tanks yet, consider yourselves warned. This is NOT the stuff to use. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:29:34 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: I HATE vinylester!!!! Mark,, this does not help now but EZ Poxy (replacement for Safe T Poxy), might be better. You may also want to consider the method used to help prevent leaks at the top that the EZ builders use. I will check my EZ email archives to try to find the method and post it here for general use. Ron Lee At 23:12 97/9/15 -0500, you wrote: >I just finished floxing and taping the four sides of my first wing tank >into position. I'm lucky that all I have to throw away is several brushes, >10 pairs of gloves, and a pair of scissors. It could have been my spars. >Although I'm using the minimum 1% ratio at 72 degrees, this stuff becomes >incredibly sticky in 10 minutes. You can't put anything down, without >stepping on it first to pull it loose. Place a tape, and when you try to >let go you pull a string loose, and unravel the whole thing, screwing up >the joint. I sure wish I'd known how this stuff was before I made all of >my tank panels out of it. I thought it would be smart to flox fillet and >tape all of the joints in the tank (except the bottom) at one time to >enhance integrity. Wrong. > >Go ahead, Tell me how wonderful it is. I ain't listenin'. You people who >haven't made your fuel tanks yet, consider yourselves warned. This is NOT >the stuff to use. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >email at langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:54:45 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: I HATE vinylester!!!! > It's too hard to explain how I'm trying to do this, but suffice it to say > that this isn't the way to do it. If you can't do it in ten minutes, use > something else. Too bad I don't have a couple of airplanes to practice on. > My recommendation is to avoid vinylester at all costs, or you too may have > a pair of scissors glued to the inside of your wing tank forever... > > Go ahead, Tell me how wonderful it is. I ain't listenin'. You people who > haven't made your fuel tanks yet, consider yourselves warned. This is NOT > the stuff to use. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford I built my entire airplane with it and loved it. I know, your ears aren't turned on. - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:32:26 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: I HATE vinylester!!!! At 11:12 PM 9/15/97 -0500, you wrote: My recommendation is to avoid vinylester at all costs, or you too may have a pair of scissors glued to the inside of your wing tank forever... > >Go ahead, Tell me how wonderful it is. I ain't listenin'. You people who >haven't made your fuel tanks yet, consider yourselves warned. This is NOT the stuff to use. > Dude,...been there done that and aint ever doing it again! I would tell you how nice my wing tanks panels are coming along and how nice it is to flox and tape with Aeropoxy but I am willing to bet you don't want to hear about it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:21:58 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Bungee Trim Systems (formerly Airworthiness Certificate) >>He was right concerning the trim tab. I changed mine to a spring setup >>on the control stick and used a RV type window crank to adjust the >>tension. It works so good that I did the same thing on the rudder. >How about sharing how its done! I myself don't like the plans trim system >and was just about to flox the piece that I cut out for the tab back in and >come up with something better! PLEASE share! The best treatment of bungee trim systems I've seen is in "Design for Safety" (David B. Thurston, 1987 Macmillan [the hardcover -- more recently it's been issued as a TAB book] ISBN 0-02-618501-6). It's also mentioned in "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft." I think this may have been named for attaching an actual bungee cable to the stick on long flights in planes without trim systems. You could visualize a it symbolically as a bungee cord that runs around pulleys so it's parallel to the rudder cables. Both ends are tied to a ring in the top cable. The cord is wound around the trim wheel, which adjusts trim by pulling on one end or the other of the bungee. Below, the trim wheel is being rotated back (Arrow A), which pulls on the front of the bungee cord, moving the top cable forward (Arrow B) and pulling the whole elevator (not a trimtab) up. A -------> o o o.......o o........o : o o : : o o : : : o.........(S)..........o -----------------------|||||||------------------------- <----------- B <--to stick to rudder --> ------------------------------------------------------ In practice, the system wouldn't use a bungee cord but a standard cable, connecting the ends to coil springs that press against a disk attached to the cable below "S." If the springs broke, the stick would still work, although without trim. This would give the same result as using a real bungee cord but is more reliable. A bungee system eliminates a trimtab completely and allows the whole elevator to be trimmed, so you'd never run out of trim This kind of system is not allowed for certificated planes, where the trim system has to function if the elevator cables break, allowing you to land the plane with trim alone. By all means see Thurston's book to get the details of this system, because I can't do it justice. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #97 ****************************