From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 1:50 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n112' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #112 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Saturday, October 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 112 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 18:14:11 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Thanks and progress At 07:24 PM 10/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks, but tell us how you made your sight guages. What materials? what are you going to use to mark levels? Are you restricting the flow thru your sight guages? Are you using any kind of floating ball to be able to see fuel level easier? > > > Well I plan to test them this weekend and will post all the information on their construction if they work! But to answer a few of your questions, yes the fuel flow is restricted otherwise the fuel level jumps around too much, and yes a floating ball is involved in the plan! :o) Its really a VERY simple setup and I hope it works! Any reccomendations on small fuel proof balls? (.5 inch or so) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 1997 10:25:36 +0900 From: Mouse@heiwa.com Subject: KR: Stronger wings.... With the discussions going on about the real strength of the KR's wings, spar modifications, etc. has anyone out there thought about doing what us model airplane boys been doing to beef up the strength of or models wings, by adding cardon fiber along the length of the main spar. Its light weight, easy to work with and adds an incredible amount of strength for the given amount of material so long as the adhesive bond between it cardon fiber and the material was good. But it does cost quite abit too. But if it were to assure that my wings will givew me the incidental load protection up to 5.7 G's I thinkl it would be cheap insurance with the minimal amount of weight be added. I'm not an expert by no means on this but I have seen what it does for some of my models. Tim Schuy KR-2S builder in Japan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 18:23:18 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: 97 Gathering page At 07:34 PM 10/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >If all of us were to build taildraggers then there wouldn't be enough propsto go around..... Just an observation..... The rumor about tail-draggers being hard to fly was actually started by a pilot.... a known fact..... > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > Probably was,...but keep in mind I am just teasing and I really dont want to start a thread on whats better. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:15:08 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Measuring to fit the stern post John, The plans method does make it mighty tough to cut the longerons while the plywood's already skinned in place! I cut them within about 1/16", then made a special sanding block to finish the job. This was good practice, since the tailpost looks just like it at the bottom. 18" long or so, with tapered sides that matched the fuselage taper. Then glued on self adhesive sand paper and sanded the four longerons so that they all met the tailpost perfectly. I even got away without sanding much of a groove into the plywood. One thing to consider is how vertical is your tailpost, left to right? Not that there's much that you can do about it. Forces on the fuselage side are bound to be uneven somehow, so just glue it in good and strong, with good fuselage plywood contact on both sides. Later, if a plumb bob shows it to be off, you can glue on one of your cutoff "wedges" from tapering the spar caps on which ever side needs the material, and belt sand the other side to proper dimension. Even better, you could build a dummy tailpost out of pine and clamp it in place. If it's not vertical, you could tweak your tailpost while you're cutting it to shape to correct for the observed misalignment. Some would say life's too short for this sort of stuff, but I sleep better at night knowing my tail is vertical. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 04:31:24 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR: Foam Does anybody know if there is any difference between polyurethane foam and urethane boat foam? I can get urethane boat foam locally and from what I can find out it sounds just like polyurethane foam. Is there any difference? Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 10:53:55 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: KR: KRnet subscriber lost Hi Ross There is a krnet subscriber called Steve Boshoff whom seems to have been dropped from the krnet group. He contacted me to ask if the krnet was still functioning. Please could you check to see if he is on the list still or if he is off so we can decide if he must try to join again. His email address is steveb@aviation.denel.co.za. Many thanks - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 06:24:19 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Foam At 04:31 97/10/04 GMT, you wrote: >Does anybody know if there is any difference between polyurethane foam >and urethane boat foam? I can get urethane boat foam locally and from >what I can find out it sounds just like polyurethane foam. Is there >any difference? >Brian J. Bland >Claremore, OK > I have not looked in the plans to see what is specified for the application you are talking about, but if you are looking for an easily sandable foam to make compound curves, urethane is the one. You can scratch it apart easily with your fingernails and it comes apart in small pieces......dust if you use sand paper. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 08:40:47 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post Bobby Muse wrote: > Hint for all builders: 1. Be creative, it's A.O.K.. > 2. No one can tell that the left side is > different from the right side. > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX In reguards to Number 2, the air flow can tell. It might be better to say that if you can't see a significant difference, then the air won't see a significant difference. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 08:47:09 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: Stronger wings.... In general response to the discussion about wing strength and the kr's strength in general, I would simply ask you to look at how many in flight structrual failures there have been with the aircraft that have been built per plans, to my knowledge, not one. If the KR is built per plans called for empty weight, the aircraft is fully capable of carrying two occupants, fuel and some baggage. If you add a watercooled or aircraft engine etc... try to make it into a IFR planform, lots of heavy stuff, like extended range fuel tanks that you use twice a year and carry the weight for the rest of the time, it simply degrades the performance of the aircraft. At the dragonflyswarming this year the one watercooled powered dragonfly weighed in a 940 lbs empty wieght which did included about 15 or so gallons of fuel. empty weight really does matter! s bennett ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:02:48 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: FAA & Inspections - ----------- The plans say to have the spars inspected by FAA before you enclose them with the plywood. When I contacted the Seattle FAA a few months ago and told them I was starting to build an experimental airplane, they were not interested. They told me to contact them when I get close to finishing it. Anyone else enclose their spars without the inspection, or have any experience with this? I did not get anything in writing, just a phone conversation with the FAA. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post In a message dated 10/4/97 12:44:25 AM, you wrote: <> Bobby, Speaking of compound curves....how did you get those nice curves on your turtledeck. I noticed upon close inspection from the rear that it has very nice, yet subtle, compound curves running from the rear of the canopy to the tail. Seems like all the others at Perry were built basically straight back on the turtledeck. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:54:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: FAA & Inspections You no longer have to have the interim FAA inspections. I guess they figured that it (the inspections) were causing them to have to actually work for a living. They only do the final inspection prior to signoff. It is strongly recommended that you have an EAA technical advisor inspect your bird at these critical stages. If you can't get that, it would be good to have a knowledgeable builder do an inspection prior to closing the spars (preferably an individual who is experienced with either wood construction or the KR itself). If you are not a member of a local EAA chapter, become one. The Tech inspections are free, and if you have 3 or more during the construction of your bird, you are eligible for reduced rate insurance for the initial flying you will do in the aircraft. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 10:05:28 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: FAA & Inspections At 07:02 AM 10/4/97 -0700, you wrote: Anyone else enclose their spars without the inspection, or >have any experience with this? I did not get anything in writing, just >a phone conversation with the FAA. > The FAA doesn't care to see your project until its finished, there are no more pre cover or pre closeup inspections. I had a few friends that have built homebuilts look at mine. But this was just to have another set of eyes checking my work. You can have someone from the EAA check it out if you like, I am not a member of the EAA or any EAA chapter for that matter and don't plan to be in the near future. My experience with EAA members around here hasnt been all that positive, we have a problem with "homebuilt snobs" that's is to say, if you are not building a Glasair, RV, or Lancair 4P then you are nothing more than a piece of scum building a toy that will surely kill you. Ask Robert Covington, he has to deal with it every time he tries to work on his project. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:32:24 -0700 From: Tom Brown Subject: Re: KR: FAA & Inspections MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > > ----------- > The plans say to have the spars inspected by FAA before you > enclose them with the plywood. When I contacted the Seattle FAA a few > months ago and told them I was starting to build an experimental > airplane, they were not interested. They told me to contact them when I > get close to finishing it. > Anyone else enclose their spars without the inspection, or > have any experience with this? I did not get anything in writing, just > a phone conversation with the FAA. > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field > Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net > -------------- Marvin FAA no longer requires a inspection of wing spars prior to closing them. At one time they did and is the reason that it's in the plans I am going to have my local EAA tech counslor look at mine before I close them just for security sake Tom Brown tbrown@pcpros.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:52:48 -0700 From: Tom Brown Subject: Re: KR: FAA & Inspections Micheal Mims wrote: > My experience with EAA members > around here hasnt been all that positive, we have a problem with "homebuilt > snobs" that's is to say, if you are not building a Glasair, RV, or Lancair > 4P then you are nothing more than a piece of scum building a toy that will > surely kill you. Ask Robert Covington, he has to deal with it every time he > tries to work on his project. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > \ / > _\/\/_ > ____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > All better now! Mike Funny you should mention that. I recently joined the Local EAA chapter and at the first meeting I introduced myself and told them about my KRs project. Prior to me finishing what I had to say one of the many RV fans there felt the need to tell me "good luck at 6' you will never fit in it" with a attitude. I know what you mean about snobs. On the more positive side the individual sitting right next to me at the same meeting who I also found out later was the tech counslor for that chapter, was very interested in my project. He believed in wood built aircraft and also pointed me in the direction of another KR builder in the local area. I guess some people today can have no respect for other's interest and ambitions. Thank good EAA was not founded on that note. Tom Brown tbrown@pcpros ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:42:07 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: Your KRNET Donations at work... OK so I have this check. Now actually three checks... (See Karl Malden with the big nose ... asking... "What will you do?... What will you do?" Spend the money of course. I have requested Teleport set up a seperate ISP account for KRNET which is cheaper annually than my personal account as I don't plan to surf from there $180/YR vs $250/YR. This comes with 5Mb of free webspace. I have also requested a krnet domain name. I have requested krnet.org, but if that is not possible I have asked for krnetter.com ... you guessed it krnet.com was taken... Someone in Korea has that already. It will take about 24 hours to establish krnet@teleport.com and move the website. It may take up to 30 days to obtain our domain name. I will keep everyone posted. When we get the new account we can either put archives on it... or we could build .html versions of KRONLINE by article. Any web authors out there want to build a builders manual suppliment? Oh by the way... we could now be known as the KRNET:KR Builders & Fliers Association. If I get around to it I will register us as a non profit orginization. If anyone wants to serve on the board of directors etc let me know via private email. I'm hoping to long term set things up so KRNET will have a life of it's own. Having our own domain would allow us to move the website to a new ISP without too much trouble. (If for example, you all got disgusted and wanted this to occur) -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:14:05 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from ["James W. Barker" ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------93F4360CFA11849E18D8A0ED Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a list message that bounced. FYI, if you post to an address other than the one you subscribed to, the message gets bounced. Our list is "CLOSED" which protects us from advertisements and other SPAMMING, so majordomo compares the submitters address to that of the subscribers before posting a message. If you have had problems with this drop me a line at rossy@teleport.com and I can fix you up... (hopefully, my batting average is down lately). There is a trick for those of you using netscape mail. I use it as it runs on UNIX/PC/MAC and I can change my reply email address at work to match my home address and post messages from work without being subscribed twice. You can probably find a similar trick with Eudora or other mail stuff, but it's too much like work for me to go any further... On to this rather good posting... - --------------93F4360CFA11849E18D8A0ED Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id QAA29679; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199709302327.QAA29679@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from ["James W. Barker" ] >From krnet-l-owner Tue Sep 30 16:27:44 1997 Received: from scis.acast.nova.edu (scis.acast.nova.edu [137.52.224.15]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29672 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jim by scis.acast.nova.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA20635; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:29:13 -0400 Message-ID: <34318A8A.5070301@scis.nova.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:26:03 -0700 From: "James W. Barker" Reply-To: barkjw@scis.acast.nova.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: General Questions X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of my requirements for any kit is that it be trailerable (either on its own gear or on a trailer) to facilitate storage in a two or three car garage. I have recently begun investigating the possibility of building a KR-2S and have a few basic questions. 1. The KR-2 is listed as having removable wings. Does the KR-2S also have removable wings? How difficult is it, and how long does it take, to rig the wings for flight? 2. Is there anyone that knows anything about the KR-2S that would specifically prevent the trailering of a KR-2S? 3. Is their anyone currently storing a flying KR-2S at home? any problems? 4. How do they transport it between their home and the airport? I have been reading the kr-net messages for a few days and have not seen any information on this specific subject, so any information would be welcome. Thanks, Jim Barker barkjw@scis.nova.edu - --------------93F4360CFA11849E18D8A0ED-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:16:12 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Copperstate Fly-in I no a great Mexican restraunt in Chandler... (A bit far from WAFB), it's Guadalupe and Rural... Casa Sorranos... terrific bean dip with the Salsa. If I come out there it will definately be a last minute Southwest flight kinda thing. My mom, sister & in-laws are out there so I've got a place to stay... --Regars Ross Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > > > > > What is the airport identifier on my GPS? > > > > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > > bmuse@mindspring.com > > Wimberly, TX > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >Bobby, > > > > The airport identifier for Williams Gateway airport is IWA, but it > might > >be KIWA in your GPS's database. It's 20 miles to the southeast of > Phoenix, > >AZ. If some of the KRNeters are going to be there lets try to pin down a > day > >and I'll try to get the day off from work and go too. Kind of make it a > >southwest KR Gathering! The flyin is scheduled for the 9th thru the 12th > and > >it would be easiest for me to get Thursday or Friday the 9th or 10th > off. > >Let's try to work this out ASAP cause closer to the date it will be much > >harder to get the day off. Of course weather could be a problem but > usually > >is severe clear this time of year in the desert. > > > > > >Tom Kilgore > > My plan is to get there around noon on Friday and leave early Sunday. I > don't expect to spend alot of time out in the sun on the flightline, but > would like to get together if we set a time and place to meet. Evenings > are going to be sipping margaritas next to the hotel pool. :oP > > Williams Gateway (IWA) is the former Williams AFB. The three huge > parallel runways are hard to miss. > > Hope to see lots of KRNetters there. > > ------- > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213W construction and first flight at > http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:18:14 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from ["Oscar Zuniga" ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------FDA810F45F7E06694C7AB804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several juno.com folks were cut from KRNET when it looked like the were no longer members of juno.com... Here is one I will be moving Oscar today... BTW Oscar, don't bother checking your juno.com email for KRNET mail :) - -- Ross - --------------FDA810F45F7E06694C7AB804 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id RAA19550; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:23:03 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199710010023.RAA19550@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from ["Oscar Zuniga" ] >From krnet-l-owner Tue Sep 30 17:22:58 1997 Received: from hotmail.com (F26.hotmail.com [207.82.250.37]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19460 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19064 invoked by uid 0); 1 Oct 1997 00:22:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19971001002257.19063.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.26.128.96 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:22:57 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.26.128.96] From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: New address/Oscar Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:22:57 PDT Hi, KRNetters; If anyone cares, I'm changing addresses. I've had some lost posts and other difficulties with Juno; I simply can't tolerate programs with bugs. I guess that just about eliminates all programs, except for MicroSoft products, right? Sorry about the commercial that HotMail appends to my posts... but I gotta go with the freebies for now. I'll see if there's a way to filter them out. My new address is: taildrags@hotmail.com but I will still check my Juno address for a couple of months anyway. I have a wild idea about digital cameras, fly-ins, and KRNetters... I'll see if it goes away after I get some sleep. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------FDA810F45F7E06694C7AB804-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:29:46 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Revmaster e-mail address Ed, I think Mike Mimms has some of that stuff on his website... Ed Janssen wrote: > > Does anyone have the e-mail address/web site for Revmaster. I've not had > any luck with my searches. > > Thanks much. > > Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:31:36 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Member List John, I may have posted this earlier, but my computer keeps locking up when I bring up netscape mail and try to move the window. This new revision is not as hot as the old rev. At any rate Mike doesn't have the secret password. That is my ego trip part of KRNET... only I have the means to add/subtract members. Me and a couple of hackers out there. If anyone else wants to play let me know, I might be willing to share. You have to come over and help wet sand however. I will take care of your email addres stuff. -- Ross John F. Esch wrote: > > Michael > > Can you take the jesch@cyberhighway.net e-mail address off of the list. > That is my old internet provider address. > > John F. Esch > Salem, OR > jesch@cyberis.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:37:22 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: VW engines John, I've got a great book by Rex Taylor on "How to Build a Reliable VW Engine" It is still available I believe, even though HAPI engines was bought out by Moseler... look in ACS and Wicks catalog... or come down to my house and you can peek at it. It has serial numbers etc on what to look for. I bought my first engine for $125, and it had a siezed crank, and the case was too far gone for align boreing. I think the connecting rods, and the crank would have been servicable. Steve Bennett is a great source (Great Plains) his catalog is definately worth $5.00 (or the current price). I think it is possible to build an engine up from servicable parts rather easily. The major component you will need to buy/machine is the prop hub. I think one of the better ones out there is the Force-1 hub, but it requires machining of the case for the bearing, and I think the crank needs a taper machined on it. You can get a tapered hub only, it also requires machining of the crank. This is what was supplied with my 1835cc engine. Or you can get a press fit hub. These are pretty simple, but are difficult to remove once installed. They are heated in your oven, then dropped onto the crank. A one shot deal, make sure you have all the washers etc in place when you start. Otherwise much of everything you need is available from Hot VW magazine. - -- Ross John F. Esch wrote: > > Michael > > I was wondering about what do you look for and what type of VW engines > do a person look for? I know you want to get an engine that hasn't had > a "bore sight?" done yet to it. I have notice a little more ads for > people trying to sell VW parts etc in a free want adds up here. > > John F. "on the hunt for parts or what ever catches my eye" Esch > Salem, OR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:08:31 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: RE: Straight Lines I think that if you use a laser pointer, you can also get a straight line, however I think that Einstein said that the line would be curved slightly due to relativity. I think that the error would be negligable considering the small distances we would be working with. -- Ross Robert Covington wrote: > > >smithr wrote: > >> The best tool is a piece of string, stretched tight. It is the only > >> thing that can be trusted as straight. > >> > >> Bob Smith > > > >Actually, it is only straight in the horizontal direction. In a gravity > >field, it will form a shape called a catenary. :) > >-- > >Don Reid > >donreid@erols.com > > Yes, but by using quarks,then neutrino inducted top quarks, and then left > turn quarks without spin, or even topspin, this effect can be nullified, > nay, even turned off. This is how the KR gets it high speeds anyway. > > I just use a flat table actually. ;) > > Anyway on KRnet, any type of catenary quickly becomes just a category > anyhow, yet again nullifying said effect. Anybody believe all this? > > Robert Covington > > Catenary:After Effect of a Feline Ingestion of a Canary. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:11:47 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bunsubscribe\b/i at line 8] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------7DFF76833075C34B43EE6552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Line1 Line2 Line3 Line4 Line5 Line6 Ohh... another nasty. If you use the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the first six lines of post to KRNET, majordomo thinks you really want to talk to the adminstrator so the message gets bounced. This is annoying, but not too bad. - --------------7DFF76833075C34B43EE6552 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id VAA05631; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199710010405.VAA05631@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bunsubscribe\b/i at line 8 >From krnet-l-owner Tue Sep 30 21:04:57 1997 Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05593 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA24428 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:04:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ppp-206-170-68-53.irvn11.pacbell.net(206.170.68.53) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024406; Tue Sep 30 23:04:38 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971001035554.00a54680@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mimsmand@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:55:54 -0700 To: krnet-l@teleport.com From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Member List At 06:06 PM 9/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Michael > >Can you take the jesch@cyberhighway.net e-mail address off of the list. >That is my old internet provider address. > Ross does those kinds of things, actually you can unsubscribe by sending an email to: majordomo@teleport.com and in the body of the email type: unsubscribe krnet-l jesch@cyberhighway.net or maybe its the user name first then the list? anyway send an email to majordomo and cut and paste the lines below into the email: unsubscribe krnet-l jesch@cyberhighway.net unsubscribe jesch@cyberhighway.net krnet-l ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / \ _\/\/_ / __/_//\\_\_____ F-117 Having structural failure! - --------------7DFF76833075C34B43EE6552-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:13:12 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Here goes again. Robert Covington wrote: > > >>smithr wrote: > >>> The best tool is a piece of string, stretched tight. It is the only > >>> thing that can be trusted as straight. > >>> > >>> Bob Smith > >> > >>Actually, it is only straight in the horizontal direction. In a gravity > >>field, it will form a shape called a catenary. :) > >>-- > >>Don Reid > >>donreid@erols.com > > > >Yes, but by using quarks,then neutrino inducted top quarks, and then left > >turn quarks without spin, or even topspin, this effect can be nullified, > >nay, even turned off. This is how the KR gets it high speeds anyway. > > > >I just use a flat table actually. ;) > > > >Anyway on KRnet, any type of catenary quickly becomes just a category > >anyhow, yet again nullifying said effect. Anybody believe all this? > > > >Robert Covington > > > >Catenary:After Effect of a Feline Ingestion of a Canary. > > I forgot to mention that particle board is more helpful in this respect > than plywood. But plywood won't expand with the weather. However > plywood is a known catenary surfactant and this can make you paint your KR > yellow, or worse, make someone else call you yellow if you don't. All this > because of a string catenary. Use a laser instead. > > Apologies in advance. ;) > > Robert Covington I used particle board, and I have only bought Red, White & Blue paint. Is this OK? :( - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:28:00 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: fiberglass wet layup smithr wrote: > > Micheal Mims wrote: > The guy from Texas with the big KR with air conditioning (can't remember > his name) claims that the best and easiest way is to let the micro on > foam harden first, before applying glass. He apparently has had lots of > experience with glass/epoxy work. You might want to get the details of > his method. Anyone want to comment on whether his method is best? > > Bob Smith I'd say not to let it fully cure. It is hard! I think the best method would be to spread micro-slurry over the foam, let it soak into the foam for a bit, then do the lay-up. If things get too sticky and messy, add some epoxy when you do the lay-up. This will make things more slippery. The trick when doing the wings is to keep the micro off the spars. I also use Sharpee markers to make some reference marks on the glass (where the spar will lie, layer 1 of 2, piece A,B,C etc) this helps me align the cloth. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:33:07 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: Glider Pilots ian whatcott wrote: > > > >Maybe I should say 7 miles south of Caddo Mills airport... > > > Where all the glider pilots hang out? > > Regards > brian whatcott > Altus OK For anyone making it to Copperstate this year, check out Estrella Sailport. About 20-30 miles SW of Copperstate, it is one of the US's best sailports... or used to be when I was a kid. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:37:11 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Web Page Move Sure... Micheal Mims wrote: > > Well sports fans I think for the most part my web site has been moved to the > Pacbell server. I changed the Netcom URL > ( http://pw2.netcom.com/~mimsmand ) so that it will point visitors in the > right direction to get to the new URL. > > Here comes the part Ross likes, Ross can you remove mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > from the krnet-l and add mikemims@pacbell.net ?? Thanks! I promise this > will be the last move for a while! :-) > > PS Anyone who send email to me privately may want to update their address > book to send email to mikemims@pacbell.net. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > \ / > _\/\/_ > ____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:52:42 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Here goes - Clamps? Robert Covington wrote: > > Ross, > > (or others) > > What size C clamps for the above mentioned operations? > > What length pipe clamps? > > I am at the will-be-needing them stage for spars and fuselage. I can see > where it would be painful to grab them all at once, $%! > > Thanks, > > Robert Covington I'll have to get back to you on that... I think about 5" overall length for the C-clamp. You will be clamping stuff to 5/8" spruce, and occasionally clamping fittings onto your wing spars. A couple of the tiny clamps are handy too. For the pipe clamps the pipes I got were about 5' long. A bit large but they work for furniture too. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:54:09 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------CB19D8B1BC564A4E21C30CE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Remember those bounced emails from folks at work? Heres one from me! - --------------CB19D8B1BC564A4E21C30CE6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp3.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id IAA04866; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:12:48 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199710021512.IAA04866@smtp3.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ] >From krnet-l-owner Thu Oct 2 08:12:43 1997 Received: from San-Jose.ate.slb.com (k2-1.San-Jose.ate.slb.com [163.185.48.3]) by smtp3.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04830 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (rossy-ss5.San-Jose.ate.slb.com) by San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1-Z) id AA29251; Thu, 2 Oct 97 08:11:58 PDT Received: from evergreen (localhost) by evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00262; Thu, 2 Oct 97 08:11:43 PDT Sender: rossy@teleport.com Message-Id: <3433B9AF.446B9B3D@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 08:11:43 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Organization: SABER Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Avionics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anyone out there in KRNET land has Terra Avionics. I was working out my electrical current budget, and the Terra Transponder has a current drain < 1A. Looks pretty good! My wish list now has the Terra Transponder & Terra COM radio on it. The tray for both units is the size of about anyone elses anything. I'd appriciate any comments... for example I could save the money and buy a handheld. But hey, if it's in the panel, I don't have to carry it! -- Ross Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------CB19D8B1BC564A4E21C30CE6-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 13:57:24 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: RAF 48 data? Peter, Your mention of a FAR23 gust jogged my memory. Could you recommend some Manuvering speeds for the KR at various gross weights? My thinking is that below Va gusts would be OK. Va varies with weight so a nice table (rough figures) would be a nifty thing. -- Ross Peter Hudson wrote: > > Hi guys, > > I was running through the wing strength calcs the other night. I wasn't > happy. I started to eliminate the conservative assumptions and used > shrenk's approximation for the semi-tapered plan form and included the > twist of the out-board wing panel and looked at the moment at the edge > of the fuselage (instead of the middle of the spar) all of which reduce > the conservatism and allow for more gross weight I'm still not showing > an acceptable strength for a 1000 lb gross weight. > The last thing I can do with hand calcs in include the contribution > of the rear spar. In order to do that I need the Cl-Cm and Cl-alpha > data for the RAF 48. I know I saw it on the web somewhere a while ago > but I can't find it now. Can any one point me in the right direction? > > And Mike (if you listening) The KR is quite capable of producing > enough lift to exceed its G limits at anything over about 120 MPH. In > fact with the lower gross weight limits I keep coming up with, an FAR 23 > type gust is capable of exceeding the wing strength. > > I think my mental jury is still out on what I'll consider my maximum > safe gross weight (at least 'til I see what the rear spar contributes). > I'm sure it will be less than some of the 1200 lb. gross weights some > KRs are using now. It may handle OK that heavy but I wouldn't want to > always worry about that next big gust. I suppose a limit load test > would make me feel better but maybe some of the 1200 lb. KRs are doing > that now! > > When I sort this last part out I'll post the results (and the resulting > v-n diagram corners) for any one who believes calculations more than the > KR literature and historical data. > > My goal it to get 1000 lb gross at 3.8 limit and 5.7 ultimate (right now > it's the ultimate strength that's the problem) > > -Peter hudson- > Ridgecrest, CA ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #112 *****************************