From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:02 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n123' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #123 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Sunday, October 12 1997 Volume 01 : Number 123 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:35:34 CDT From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy sealer BSHADR Fri, 10 Oct 1997 wrote > Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy sealer > In a message dated 97-10-10 00:58:22 EDT, Brian wrote: > > << I have plenty of space for anything that anybody wants posted. > Just let me know what you want and send it to me. >> > > Rex, are ya listen'in? > Randy > I hear. I hear. We will get a scanner soon. In the meantime, I will look for Brian's snail mail address and send photo copies to him. Rex Ellington Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:16:52 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KRNet? At 12:07 PM 10/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >Isn=92t it interesting that Monte just wrote me asking for the names and >addresses of all of the attendees=85Gee, I wonder why? > >Randy > Based on my first (and hopefully last) encounter with the infamous Monte, I will disown you and the ride to the 98 or 99 gathering is off if you give him that list! He aint here to do anyone any favors, free sharing of information is not in his vocabulary. Needless to say he BUGS! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net =20 http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:38:03 -0600 From: Robert Lasecki Subject: KR: engine mounting location I have been talking to engine suppliersw and have been asked to provide two numbers which I can not seem to find in our wonderful construction manual. They are: Where is the centerline of thrust with respect to the top longeron? and What is the offset of thrust in degrees? It appears from the drawings, if I interpret loosely, that the thrust line is the top of the longeron. Is the offset zero? And assistance as to what should be done would be most appreciated. Bob Lasecki Chicago - getting chilly and still building. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:55:43 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Newsletter In a message dated 97-10-10 17:17:22 EDT, Mike wrote: << Based on my first (and hopefully last) encounter with the infamous Monte, I will disown you and the ride to the 98 or 99 gathering is off if you give him that list! He aint here to do anyone any favors, free sharing of information is not in his vocabulary. >> So Mikie, don't hold back - tell us how you really feel...just kidding... Randy PS - Please, let's not make this an on going thread. It is not worth the bandwidth. Poor Monte is back in the covered wagon days, ya can't blame 'im. He dosen't know any better. Believe me, the newsletter serves a purpose for the cyber challenged, as it should. KRNet is not threaten nor is KROnline. So save the energy. Let the market place determine what product is the preferred. If you need to vent, throw an article together and send it to him....errrrrr...I mean me and we'll put together a KROnline issue sooner. Besides, this'll give 'ol Oscar som'in to read on the crapper. PSS - Now about that airplane ride to Perry, when do we leave? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:14:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Newsletter At 06:55 PM 10/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >So Mikie, don't hold back - tell us how you really feel...just kidding... > >Randy > >PS - Please, let's not make this an on going thread. OK, sorry,..your right. I guess I have something against used car salesmen! :o) Opps there I go again! Sorry no articles from me until the KR is done, then maybe a book! Of who knows maybe if I could get Mark Langford to agree we can publish a book about how to build a KR or how not to if the need be! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:51:10 -0400 (EDT) From: LDeckert@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: engine mounting location In a message dated 97-10-10 18:40:05 EDT, you write: << I have been talking to engine suppliersw and have been asked to provide two numbers which I can not seem to find in our wonderful construction manual. They are: Where is the centerline of thrust with respect to the top longeron? and What is the offset of thrust in degrees? It appears from the drawings, if I interpret loosely, that the thrust line is the top of the longeron. Is the offset zero? And assistance as to what should be done would be most appreciated. Bob Lasecki Chicago - getting chilly and still building. >> I called RR and got 3 sheets of plans/drawings for a continental engine mount for the KR2S. They show the engine center line as 1 1/2 inches below the top long, and a 1 degree offset to the left. Larry Deckert Sandy, Ut 801-561-3573 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:23:07 -0700 From: Ted & Louisa Jones Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Accident Patrick Flowers wrote: > > Ted Jones wrote: > > > > The situation could be similar here in light of the reported stall > > characteristics of the KR at low airspeeds with aft CG: engine dies, > > stretch final approach -- it is not a comfortable scenario. Is it better > > to ride it out passively and hope for the best or to keep trying to get > > out of the problem until the end. Not good options, although 2 pilots > > survived flat spin crashes (at least one was in the ocean) in Velocity > > aircraft, as was well documented in the aviation press a couple of years > > ago. > > Ted, > > Not quite sure what you mean by "ride it out" or "keep trying to get > out". In the engine out scenario, keep the nose down and airspeed above > stall while looking for the flatest, softest place to set 'er down is > the only real option. If you're on final "stretching the glide" and get > yourself into the stall/spin situation, at <1000agl, you would barely > have time to say "on sh**", much less try to bail out. As long as the > airframe is intact, you're always better off to stay with the plane(if > you're not wearing a 'chute, it's really your only option). It would > seem that the best way to avoid flat spins with the KR is to be very > conservative on CG range, as espoused by many in this forum. > > > Patrick > -- > Patrick Flowers > Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > > The GMC Motorhome Page > http://www.gmcmotorhome.com You know that, and I know that, and I'll bet Mr. Culp knew that -- with 2,000 hours flight time -- but when you've just spent hundreds of hours building your bird, you may forget when you see the trees rushing up at you and the runway is only just a little bit farther, maybe I can.... By 'ride it out' I mean follow your forced landing proceedures, pick your spot, set up your pattern, and stick with it all the way down -- the proceedure we were all taught 'til it was ingrained to always know where you would go if the wind suddenly stopped. The situation is probably dissimilar, but I am struck by the fact that both Bergstrom and Culp appeared to be trying to exit their aircraft when they hit. In Bergstrom's case, I believe -- and it strictly my opinion based upon knowing him very well -- that he wasn't trying to get out but trying to get his weight forward to gain flying speed and recover from an aft CG stall. I don't think he had been at pattern altitude but at least 3,000 AGL. Perhaps Culp's case was different, given the likelyhood of engine failure. Probably we will never know. I miss my friend very much, no more so, I'm sure, than Mr. Culp's friends and family will miss him. I do not wish to denegrate either memory by surmising what went wrong but hope we might all benefit from their experience. Ted Jones Center Harbor, NH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:36:33 -0500 From: Mark Pierce Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts Oscar, you might try: http://www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search_nnr.html It lets you look up N numbers and also aircraft owners by name. Mark Pierce markpi@oz.sunflower.org PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol KR2S (future) http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > >Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:59:05 -0700 > >From: "John F. Esch" > >To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts > > >Just trying to think up a N-number. hmmmm > > > >John F. Esch > >Salem, OR > > Hi, John- > > Just don't use MY tail number: N1691N (notice that you can still read > this even when the airplane is UPSIDE DOWN?) > > But, seriously- does anybody know how to access the FAA database to see > if a tail number is already assigned? I know you can apply for a > 'custom' number, but how do you check to see if one exists, without > listing your 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice, etc.? > > Thanks > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 07:37:08 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts At 05:20 AM 10/10/97 PDT, you wrote: > > >>Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:59:05 -0700 >>From: "John F. Esch" >>To: krnet-l@teleport.com >>Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts > >>Just trying to think up a N-number. hmmmm >> >>John F. Esch >>Salem, OR > > >Hi, John- > >Just don't use MY tail number: N1691N (notice that you can still read >this even when the airplane is UPSIDE DOWN?) > >But, seriously- does anybody know how to access the FAA database to see >if a tail number is already assigned? I know you can apply for a >'custom' number, but how do you check to see if one exists, without >listing your 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice, etc.? > >Thanks > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > John, Try one of my favorite sites - AVweb website, if you don't know about it already. Check the aircraft database, using their search. Lots of other aviation stuff to check out there, too. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:58:09 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: KRNet? > >Isn=92t it interesting that Monte just wrote me asking for the names and >addresses of all of the attendees=85Gee, I wonder why? > >Randy > >He probably wants to write a personal note to everyone to let them know about the benefits of being signed up with KRnet as well as with his newsletter. ;-) ;-) Ed J ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:53:33 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts Ed Janssen wrote: > At 05:20 AM 10/10/97 PDT, you wrote: > > > > > >>Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:59:05 -0700 > >>From: "John F. Esch" > >>To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >>Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts > > > >>Just trying to think up a N-number. hmmmm > >> > >>John F. Esch > >>Salem, OR > > > > > >Hi, John- > > > >Just don't use MY tail number: N1691N (notice that you can still read > > >this even when the airplane is UPSIDE DOWN?) > > > >But, seriously- does anybody know how to access the FAA database to > see > >if a tail number is already assigned? I know you can apply for a > >'custom' number, but how do you check to see if one exists, without > >listing your 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice, etc.? > > > >Thanks > > > >Oscar Zuniga > >Medford, Oregon > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > John, > > Try one of my favorite sites - AVweb website, if you don't know about > it > already. Check the aircraft database, using their search. Lots of > other > aviation stuff to check out there, too. > > Ed Janssen Thanks Ed Going N-number hunting John F. Esch Salem, OR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:56:32 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: brakes At 08:10 PM 10/7/97 -0600, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 07 Oct 1997 11:43:24 -0400 David Batton >writes: >>I am about to purchase the brakes for my suggestions and need >>suggestions. > >You will see both Cleveland and Matco brakes on the KRs. In my opinion, >the Clevelands l look sharper and are a very simple design, but they also >cost more for the initial purchase. When I mounted the Clevelands on my >project, I found that both wheels were machined incorrectly causing the >brake disks to wobble. >The Matco brakes appear to be a little bulkier in size, but are also a >simple, functional design. If I understand correctly, the replacement >linings for the Matco brakes are either the same or very similar in size >and price to the Clevelands. > >For me, I prefer the cleaner design and my long experience with the >Cleveland brakes. I find them to be very smooth brakes that I use hard >when needed without worrying about brake fade. >Happy brake shopping, >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM I have MATCO and have never had any problems. I have 260 hrs on N122B and have never had anyproblems but I do need to replace the pads. Total cost = about $12 dollars. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 01:55:15 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR:More pictures I have added a few more pictures on my web site of my project. If anybody is interested they can see how the short, fat whale really looks. I haven't glued anything together yet because I am still debating whether to leave it this wide. Everytime I look at it though it seems to look better. I ended up with just over 46" on the outside at the widest point. The widest point ended up being between the spars. I tried making the widest point approximately at the trailing edge of the wing, but the sides did not want to bend right because the widest point ended up being about even with one of the vertical pieces and it just couldn't be bent there. Any comments on how it looks? Any suggestions? Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:56:49 -0400 From: Vince Bozik Subject: Re: KR: Lowered GPS price/ Headset Question. Ron Lee wrote: > This from AvWeb. Saw it posted on Cozy list I hope. > > * GOOD GRIEF! HOW LOW CAN THEY GO? Lowrance Electronics just dropped > > the price of its AirMap handheld GPS by another $100, to an > incredible > $599! SNIP! Guess Again! Hart Aviation in Savanah has 'em for 525.00. Plus(!!) There's no shipping cost, and if your out of state - no sales tax! Yessir! I just spoke with the guy on friday. Name was Ken. Nice guy. I ordered a headset from them. Which Reminds me - If ANY of you have had any experiences with a Flightcom Eclipse, Please let me know. They don't seem to have much integrity, but sure look pretty darn comfy! Mine's coming in on Monday, hopefully. I think that one downside to this headset is a "less than norm" sound decrease from less "vise-like" pressure on the noggin. At least, that's what the dizzy little Flightcom Rep. told me. They wouldn't give a true decrease, just note that it was less. I was trying to find one with a composite headband, but didn't want to pay 300.00 for a DC H20-10S. That one ways 20 some-odd ounces anyway. The Flightcom is only 13.9 oz. Any reply on the matter is much appreciated. I've got 30 days to return them, so the sooner the better. Cheers, Vince (checking e'mail at work sucks because my modem's busted) Bozik ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:18:41 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR:More pictures At 01:55 AM 10/12/97 GMT, you wrote: >Any comments on how it looks? Any suggestions? > > > Just Glue Brian!! Glue it now and stop thinking! :o) This is the advise I gave myself over and over during this phase, I wish my fuselage was like yours but mine will do. I had to build some funny looking (well they look cool to me but...) wing root fairings because the widest part of my fuselage is at the main spar. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:51:52 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Accident At 01:24 AM 10/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-10-08 22:13:38 EDT, you write: > ><< tried to jump from the plane without a chute prior to impact > and was partially decapitated. >> > > > It could be that jumping out of this airplane (with a >chute) is a bad idea and I'll need to install a BRS if I go through with spin >testing. My bailout criteria may have just changed drastically. > >Cheers! >Rick Junkin > You're the man. If you change anything about testing this airplane....please tell us what we should do. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:47:53 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR:More pictures Brian Bland wrote: > I have added a few more pictures on my web site of my project. If > anybody is interested they can see how the short, fat whale really > looks. I haven't glued anything together yet because I am still > debating whether to leave it this wide. Everytime I look at it though > > it seems to look better. I ended up with just over 46" on the outside > > at the widest point. The widest point ended up being between the > spars. I tried making the widest point approximately at the trailing > edge of the wing, but the sides did not want to bend right because the > > widest point ended up being about even with one of the vertical pieces > > and it just couldn't be bent there. > > Any comments on how it looks? Any suggestions? > > Brian J. Bland > Claremore, OK > > Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S > > bbland@busprod.com > > http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm Brian You did build your sides straight up and down? What are the measurements and will this affect the deminsion (sp) of the stub wings? It shouldn't now that I thought about it. I think you mentioned this before but my memory is failing me right now (not permanent). She does look a little wide but looks good. John F. "thinking about going wider on -2S" Esch Salem, OR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:46:55 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR:More pictures At 01:55 97/10/12 GMT, you wrote: >I have added a few more pictures on my web site of my project. If >anybody is interested they can see how the short, fat whale really >looks. I haven't glued anything together yet because I am still >debating whether to leave it this wide. Everytime I look at it though >it seems to look better. I ended up with just over 46" on the outside >at the widest point. The widest point ended up being between the >spars. I tried making the widest point approximately at the trailing >edge of the wing, but the sides did not want to bend right because the >widest point ended up being about even with one of the vertical pieces >and it just couldn't be bent there. > >Any comments on how it looks? Any suggestions? >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Brian J. Bland >Claremore, OK > >http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm Is that a loaded question? Do you go see someone's new baby and say anything other than she is beautiful? You will love your plane no matter how she looks. Just call her Beluga and treat her well. It was hard to get a good image of it until I found the one from the back. That looks ok to me with the wide spot somewhere around the shoulder area. You should be very comfy. You could make it narrower if you like guys with their arms around you while you fly (wink wink). Measure your shoulder to shoulder dimension and that of your wife and see if the INSIDE dimension is about right. Since you made it longer, and if your front end is a bit longer, it should flow nicely. Aerodynamically maybe someone else can comment. Besides, even if being that wide affects the airspeed a bit, you may be able to do other things to make up for it. MY guess is that you will be happy you have room inside when you give rides at KR gatherings. Ron "Prefer women's arms around me" Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:03:11 -0500 From: Kerry Miller Subject: KR: KR bailouts? Rick et al, I knew a guy who was spin testing his RV-3 back when they were having a few problems with them. Instead of using a ballistic chute, he used a small chute on the tail which he could kick out to arrest the spin. I assume he had some means of dumping it once the spin stopped... Kerry Miller Royse City, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:10:24 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR bailouts? At 10:03 PM 10/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Rick et al, >I knew a guy who was spin testing his RV-3 back when they were having a few >problems with them. Instead of using a ballistic chute, he used a small >chute on the tail which he could kick out to arrest the spin. I assume he >had some means of dumping it once the spin stopped... >Kerry Miller >Royse City, TX > That's pretty much standard operation while spin testing production aircraft. And yes they can jettison the chute after rotation has stopped and they are pointed downhill. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 03:25:52 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR:More pictures On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:47:53 -0700, you wrote: > Brian > >You did build your sides straight up and down? What are the >measurements and will this affect the deminsion (sp) of the stub >wings? It shouldn't now that I thought about it. I think you mentioned >this before but my memory is failing me right now (not permanent). >She does look a little wide but looks good. > >John F. "thinking about going wider on -2S" Esch >Salem, OR > Yes my sides are straight up and down. The widest point (46 5/8") is approx. 4" in front of the rear spar. I will have 43-44" of shoulder room depending on how far I slant the seat back. The width should have no affect on the stub wings. The pictures look better than in real life. To me it looks wider than the pictures show. I should have plenty of room for giving rides. I am planning on building an engine mount that is longer than the plans so that I can get the C.G. in the right place and to make it look right. The new prop drive setup that Great Plains is working on should make it look even better. Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:26:36 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Urethane foam sucks! Well after a few minutes of sculpturing my wing root fairings out of Blue Styrene I realized why I hate urethane so much! Polystyrene is NOT hard to work with what so ever, as a matter of fact it sculptures much easier than urethane and when your done you have a much more durable surface to slurry and glass and NO URETHANE DUST to clean up. I went out to the hanger today and fired up the old hot wire saw. After about a 30 second explanation on what we were trying to accomplish me and the wife went to town! After one practice cut she was ready to try a trailing edge. It came out perfect! All that need be done now is to glue it to the aft spar and layup some glass, no sanding, or shaping and best of all NO URETHANE DUST! We even cut out a little slot for the aileron cable to ride in, my wife got a kick out of it and thought it was cool how with a few cuts we had what looked like a piece to a wing. We moved on to the leading edges and wha la, more perfect wing parts! Straight as and arrow and no sanding required and best of all, NO URETHANE DUST to clean up. All this hot wiring took about 10 minutes. In my opinion (its worth what you pay for it) hot wired cores are the only way to go other than vacume cured skins. Do yourself a favor and buy a small piece of polystyrene, a Stanley sure form tool and some 60 grit sandpaper and give sculpturing a try, don't plan on using the Rand method of sanding the wings from blocks though, polystyrene is too hard to use in this fashion. Gee, a guy could hot wire wing cores and sell them as an alternative way to build KR wings,...Hummm........................ Mike "hot wired wing cores,.. kick butt" Mims ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:43:58 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! Snipped stuff. Welcome to the Long-EZ family. Did you hotwire using the wing ribs as guides? Then remove that foam and do the next section? A bit more explanation of the technique (KROnline article?) may help others. Ron "Hot-wiring blue foam- never Urethane - is fun" Lee At 20:26 97/10/11 -0700, you wrote: >Well after a few minutes of sculpturing my wing root fairings out of Blue >Styrene I realized why I hate urethane so much! Polystyrene is NOT hard to >work with what so ever, as a matter of fact it sculptures much easier than >urethane and when your done you have a much more durable surface to slurry >and glass and NO URETHANE DUST to clean up. > > >We moved on to the leading edges and wha la, more perfect wing parts! >Straight as and arrow and no sanding required and best of all, NO URETHANE >DUST to clean up. All this hot wiring took about 10 minutes. > >Mike "hot wired wing cores,.. kick butt" Mims >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 01:31:31 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR bailouts? In a message dated 97-10-11 23:23:21 EDT, you write: << >Rick et al, >I knew a guy who was spin testing his RV-3 back when they were having a few >problems with them. Instead of using a ballistic chute, he used a small >chute on the tail which he could kick out to arrest the spin. I assume he >had some means of dumping it once the spin stopped... >Kerry Miller >Royse City, TX > That's pretty much standard operation while spin testing production aircraft. And yes they can jettison the chute after rotation has stopped and they are pointed downhill. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Michael is right, but the concern with spin testing is the possibility of not being able to recover even with the spin chute deployed, or a structural failure being induced by the combined loads of the spin itself and the deployment of the spin chute. At this point in time I'm not planning on doing spin testing, although I AM thinking about how and where I would install a spin chute. I'll let y'all know what I come up with if I decide to get serious about it. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:23:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! At 10:43 PM 10/11/97, you wrote: >Snipped stuff. Welcome to the Long-EZ family. Did you hotwire using >the wing ribs as guides? Then remove that foam and do the next section? > I cut the wing ribs up into three sections, leading edge (D - section), center section, and trailing edge. The ribs (cut up pieces) have the washout built right into them, so needless to say when you cut out the foam cores you just glue them to the spars and the wing has the right twist! Cool huh?! You can use little circular pieces on each end of the core to make holes from root to tip for wiring and other items. As far as articles go,...I am having way too much fun building right now to take time to write about it. Sorry! But I will try to keep the web site updated to help you folks understand what I am doing. (for those interested anyway) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:15:47 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Re: Headset Question. >spoke with the guy on friday. Name was Ken. Nice guy. I ordered a >headset from them. Which Reminds me - > > If ANY of you have had any experiences with a Flightcom Eclipse, >Please let me know. I was trying to find one with a >composite headband, but didn't want to pay 300.00 for a DC H20-10S. >That one ways 20 some-odd ounces anyway. The Flightcom is only 13.9 >oz. > > Any reply on the matter is much appreciated. I've got 30 days to >return them, so the sooner the better. > >Cheers, > Vince (checking e'mail at work sucks because my modem's busted) >Bozik > Vince; I have no experience with the Flightcom headset. I have flown with a Telex E-951 for years, and can vouch for the vice-like grip on some of these sets; plus the plastic head and ear pads have deteriorated and the foam sticks out. So, I bought a PCA-4T from Pacific Coast Avionics last year. It's their cheapest set, but far better than the Telex; it came with some cloth earpads (VERY comfy), has a vol. control in the earcup, metal (not composite) top band, has earcups somewhere between the big dome shape of the David Clark and the flat shape of the Telex, and the set weighs just a whisker over 16 oz. on my postal scale. It was $85.00, shipping was free. I really like it, and recommend it to anybody. Not only that, but it was WAY better than the $300 that I paid for my Telex... and that was about 15 years ago! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:20:52 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Re: KR: KR Newsletter >From: BSHADR@aol.com >Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:55:43 -0400 (EDT) >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: KR Newsletter >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com snip I mean me and we'll put together a KROnline issue sooner. > Besides, this'll give 'ol Oscar som'in to read on the crapper. > Look, Randy- this might be funny to you, but I really learn a lot reading this stuff. And where I do my reading is my own business. Seriously- I learned tons of stuff just in one weekend, reading the first two issues of the KROnline newsletter. Now I gotta print out the others. It just took so long to print out! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 08:19:00 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! Micheal Mims wrote: > > Well after a few minutes of sculpturing my wing root fairings out of Blue > Styrene I realized why I hate urethane so much! Polystyrene is NOT hard to > > Mike "hot wired wing cores,.. kick butt" Mims > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims-------------------------------------- Michael: Are you using Styrene for the whole wing? I thought I would also use Extruded Styrene in place of Urethane. The tests I did with the two foams showed that the Styrene foam is 25% stiffer then Urethane. I am concerned about the possibility of fuel leakage in the wing, But, ?? I think I can make the wing tanks leak proof and it should not be a problem. The hot wire method sounds like the best way to go. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. Northe end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:46:48 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! At 08:19 AM 10/12/97 -0700, you wrote: Michael: > Are you using Styrene for the whole wing? I thought I would >also use Extruded Styrene in place of Urethane. The tests I did with >the two foams showed that the Styrene foam is 25% stiffer then Urethane. I am concerned about the possibility of fuel leakage in the wing, But, ?? I think I can make the wing tanks leak proof and it should not be a problem. > Yes 90% of the foam on my wings will be polystyrene, this was my plan from the beginning. I have a little (2 sets Dragonfly cores and 1 set of LongEZ cores) experience hot wiring and after trying the Rand method (sanding urethane) on the tail group I decided I never wanted to touch urethane again! I built my wing tank out of last-a-foam (clark foam sub) and it will not leak! (fingers crossed). The tank is located in the stub so I will be able to make the entire outer wing panels from polystyrene. My findings are styrene is stiffer, harder, and has much less of a tendency to de-bond with the glass covering. Obviously there is nothing wrong with urethane because it in the air and working but its my opinion polystyrene is better and its available at almost all building supply houses (in the northern states anyway). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:25:08 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! I was over at Sky Star's (Kitfox) new facility in Caldwell, ID a couple weeks ago with my brother to see if his engine parts came in yet and other reasons. The gentleman my brother has been in contact with gave a tour of the new facility. We got to the Pulsar (sp) assembly area and I notice they use some type of brown foam in the leading edge of the wing. It was very stiff stuff. I was wondering what type of foam this was and could it be used in a KR? John F. Esch Salem, OR MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > > Well after a few minutes of sculpturing my wing root fairings out of > Blue > > Styrene I realized why I hate urethane so much! Polystyrene is NOT > hard to > > > > Mike "hot wired wing cores,.. kick butt" Mims > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Micheal Mims > > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims-------------------------------------- > > Michael: > Are you using Styrene for the whole wing? I thought I would > also use Extruded Styrene in place of Urethane. The tests I did with > the two foams showed that the Styrene foam is 25% stiffer then > Urethane. > I am concerned about the possibility of fuel leakage in the wing, > But, > ?? I think I can make the wing tanks leak proof and it should not be a > > problem. > The hot wire method sounds like the best way to go. > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. Northe end of Boeing field > Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net > -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:32:55 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! At 08:19 AM 10/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >Michael: > Are you using Styrene for the whole wing? I thought I would >also use Extruded Styrene in place of Urethane. Check out the picture at: http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/wingcore.jpg to get a better idea of what I am doing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:34:28 -0400 From: "Scott Goodman" Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! > Check out the picture at: > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/wingcore.jpg > > to get a better idea of what I am doing. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike, Thats one beautiful piece of foam! Nice work. Congratulations. Regards, Scott Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:41:22 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KROnline Newsletter In a message dated 97-10-12 09:22:58 EDT, Oscar wrote: << I learned tons of stuff just in one weekend, reading the first two issues of the KROnline newsletter. Now I gotta print out the others. It just took so long to print out! >> Right on. The whole idea of KROnline was to share and improve the collective knowledge base of the KRNet readers. Glad you enjoyed it. My work/family loads are starting to change, so I can put newsletter issues together as sufficient material is collected. Now is the time for each of you to share what you have learned to make it easier for the newer builders to use. The wealth of unshared information on KRNet is beyond description. After assembling and then watching the seminars at KRKosh (97 Perry) I'm of the opinion that we need much, much more sharing of knowledge. We end up with a stronger KR community and larger percentage of safer built planes and a larger pool of good KR pilots. Steve, Jim, Bobby, etc., are some of the KRelders who have taken the time to share knowledge and information. You'd be hard pressed to find a better group of guys. The "mid" KRLife guys, Mike, Mark, Donald, and many, many others not named, are on the leading edge of the KR future. A melding of these groups has created a unique force that is bringing the 'ol KR into modern times. Look how long KRs have been around! Now look how large the the 97 KRKosh was! Don B. put a heck of a show together, but the true stars were the guys in the know who have taken the time to share and help the newbees and the want-a-bees. Pretty amazing if you ask me. The complexsion of the KR community is evolving. Do your part. Share your tidbits, ideas and information so it can be of benefit to the everyone now and the yet unborn KRAddicts. KRNet is good for the ongoing help and dialog, KROnline is for the longer articles and topics that need photos, drawings and extensive explanation. Gee, in reading what I just wrote, the preceding sounds like a KROnwhine for articles. How 'bout it folks, keep me from doing lots of these postings...you'll feel better and KRnet will thank you. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #123 *****************************