From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:02 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n124' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #124 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Sunday, October 12 1997 Volume 01 : Number 124 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:59:36 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! At 04:34 PM 10/12/97 -0400, you wrote: >Mike, >Thats one beautiful piece of foam! Nice work. >Congratulations. > >Regards, >Scott Goodman Yes it is and I wish it were mine! Actually that's the photo than inspired my idea. Its a core to a Europa. Mine look very similar though. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:57:05 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: KROnline Newsletter - --------------465B250C1AAE4C5D700E44A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > After assembling and then watching the seminars > at KRKosh (97 Perry) I'm of the opinion that we need much, much more sharing > of knowledge. We end up with a stronger KR community and larger percentage > of safer built planes and a larger pool of good KR pilots. > > Steve, Jim, Bobby, etc., are some of the KRelders who have taken the time to > share knowledge and information. > Gee, in reading what I just wrote, the preceding sounds like a KROnwhine for > articles. How 'bout it folks, keep me from doing lots of these > postings...you'll feel better and KRnet will thank you. > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA I thought I would share the paper I wrote for landings and you might want to use it in the KROnline Newsletter as well. I get windy with this but couldn't think of a better way to present it. The "Perfect" Landing - In a KR??? After my test flight in my KR-2 I thought every landing would be as good. However, it seems that first landing was my best until I sat down to analyze each and every step before touchdown. The purpose of this article is to present the plan I use before each landing in hopes that it will help KR builders getting ready for their first flight and those having problems with consistent landings. Each phase of the landing process must be planned and executed if the successful touchdown will be made. I will try to explain each step along with the speeds and altitudes for each phase of the landing. Please keep in mind that those of us who fly experimental aircraft do not have calibrated airspeed systems and your speeds may and probably will be different. For your information, N891JF has an empty weight of 625 lbs, no flaps, I weigh 190 lbs, and typically carry 15 lbs of stuff in my baggage area. Phase 1 - Approach to the airport - The KR is a very slippery aircraft and you must plan to start slowing down before you reach the downwind leg of the airport pattern. I always try to descend to traffic pattern altitude (800 agl) and obtain a speed of 120 mph on downwind. Phase 2 - Downwind - When I have stabilized my speed on downwind, 120 mph, my RPM on the 2180 VW with a 52 X 52 prop is around 2000. This is a very comfortable speed to check all instruments, ensure the mixture is at full rich, and plan the touchdown point. Don't forget to plan for either a strong headwind or a crosswind component. If you are facing a strong crosswind, this is the time to review what you will do at touchdown. (Which wing you will have low on approach and which wheel you will land on first.) You may not have time for "thinking" later. Phase 3 - Base - The base leg will be flown at 90 to 100 mph. I use the turn to aid in decreasing speed and lower my RPM to around 1600 to 1800. During the base leg, I will descend to an altitude of approximately 500 agl. Phase 4 - Turn to final - This is one of your great opportunities to decrease altitude. I usually slip (if it is a left pattern) on this turn to decrease altitude to 300 agl as I enter the final leg. It is important that you determine your best altitudes for each of the legs and always consider safety. In other words, remember, in case of engine failure, altitude is your best asset! Phase 5 - Final - Your two most important considerations on final are altitude and speed. You can always decrease altitude with a controlled slip. (The KR slips very good.) However, it is extremely difficult to decrease speed once you have let it build up. On final I will fly at 80 mph until I reach mid final, then I will decrease to 70 mph. I will hold this speed until short final (cross the end of the runway) at which time I begin decreasing speed. Phase 6 - Float - The KR is so close to the ground that you will encounter ground effect in a VERY big way. You can and should use this to your advantage in making the "perfect" landing. Patience is a huge virtue during this phase. I will NEVER land my airplane above 60 mph. If I try, and for the first 60 hours I tried all the way up to 80 mph, I WILL bounce!!! The reason for this is very simple. When you touch the main wheels down, the tail will lower, your angle of attack will increase and you will go back up in the air. This will continue until you are at the appropriate speed. What we want to do is make the landing once rather than getting current (bounce 5 times) every time we decide to land. Remember, we had just crossed the end of the runway decreasing speed out of 70 mph. At this time I pull back the throttle all the way and try to hold my KR inches off the runway. The more I concentrate on holding it off by inches the better landing I am able to make. I will glance, VERY quickly, at the airspeed indicator until it is below 60 mph and then I will continue to pull back on the stick concentrating on NOT touching down but instead maintaining the inch or two above the runway. When the stick is approximately one half the way back, we are now somewhere between 50 and 55 mph, I will let it then settle on the runway. Then I will raise the tail to decrease the lift and allow me to see over the nose. I have seen airspeeds, solo, as low as 40 mph before I actually touch the wheels down. I will continue to apply forward pressure on the stick keeping the nose up until I am almost to the limit. Next I will allow the tail to come back to the runway and then apply full back pressure on the stick to ensure the tail wheel stays on the ground as it takes over directional control from the rudder. If you are landing in a crosswind most experts agree you should wheel land the airplane and raise the tail to ensure the mains are securely on the ground. Ensure you apply the appropriate aileron going all the way to full. These controls of aileron and elevator must be managed as you complete your landing and as you taxi. You will learn how much of a crosswind component you and your KR are capable of over time and I recommend all early flights are with a crosswind component of less than 5 kts. I have found that the crosswind component I am capable of handling is more a function of my piloting ability (practice) than the airplane. If I follow my own procedures, I will make a good landing every time. However, I seem to make exceptions when concentration lapses. For example, if I lower the nose on final I will gain speed very quickly, usually to 100+ mph, and this makes the landing more difficult unless you are very good at using slips to decrease speed. Another point that should be made is that when flying with two people I will raise the speeds on final by 5+ mph compensating for the increase in weight and stall speed. What happens if I bounce? The first thing you have to decide is how bad of a bounce is it? I put bounces into three categories. First is BAD. If this is the case or if everything just doesn't seem right your only good option is to advance the throttle to full and go around. Don't worry about your ego just do it, GO AROUND. Second is a small bounce. If you come back up 6 inches to a foot, then don't over control, just re-land the plane. The reason for the small bounce was probably that you were going too fast when you let the airplane set down. The third bounce is in-between. The recovery from an in-between bounce will depend upon your skill level with your KR. If you have only been flying for 10 hours, you should probably go around. However, as your skills improve there is another option. To recover, apply approximately half throttle, stop the oscillation, and re-land the airplane. This only works if you stay in ground effect and remember you are very close to a stall so DON'T try this unless you are comfortable with your plane, your skills and you have a long enough runway. I certainly hope the information will prove helpful as you think about test flying your KR or are trying to improve your landings. If you can visualize and plan each phase of the landing process you will be able to make "perfect" landings. I am not a flight instructor and only present the information here in hopes you will not make the same mistakes I did in my early flights. If you would like to discuss these phases prior to flying your KR then give me a call. Perhaps we can improve this narrative for others. Good Landings Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave St. Louis, MO 63108 314-652-7659 Cell 573-465-8039 - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 - --------------465B250C1AAE4C5D700E44A5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
  After assembling and then watching the seminars
at KRKosh (97 Perry) I'm of the opinion that we need much, much more sharing
of knowledge.  We end up with a stronger KR community and larger percentage
of safer built planes and a larger pool of good KR pilots.

Steve, Jim, Bobby, etc., are some of the KRelders who have taken the time to
share knowledge and information.
Gee, in reading what I just wrote, the preceding sounds like a KROnwhine for
articles.  How 'bout it folks, keep me from doing lots of these
postings...you'll feel better and KRnet will thank you.

Randy Stein
BSHADR@aol.com
Soviet Monica, CA

 I thought I would share the paper I wrote for landings and you might want to use it in the KROnline Newsletter as well. I get windy with this but couldn't think of a better way to present it.

The "Perfect" Landing   -   In a KR???

After my test flight in my KR-2 I thought every landing would be as good. However, it seems that first landing was my best until I sat down to analyze each and every step before touchdown. The purpose of this article is to present the plan I use before each landing in hopes that it will help KR builders getting ready for their first flight and those having problems with consistent landings.

Each phase of the landing process must be planned and executed if the successful touchdown will be made. I will try to explain each step along with the speeds and altitudes for each phase of the landing. Please keep in mind that those of us who fly experimental aircraft do not have calibrated airspeed systems and your speeds may and probably will be different. For your information, N891JF has an empty weight of 625 lbs, no flaps, I weigh 190 lbs, and typically carry 15 lbs of stuff in my baggage area.

Phase 1 - Approach to the airport - The KR is a very slippery aircraft and you must plan to start slowing down before you reach the downwind leg of the airport pattern. I always try to descend to traffic pattern altitude (800 agl) and obtain a speed of 120 mph on downwind.

Phase 2 - Downwind - When I have stabilized my speed on downwind, 120 mph, my RPM on the 2180 VW with a 52 X 52 prop is around 2000. This is a very comfortable speed to check all instruments, ensure the mixture is at full rich, and plan the touchdown point. Don't forget to plan for either a strong headwind or a crosswind component. If you are facing a strong crosswind, this is the time to review what you will do at touchdown. (Which wing you will have low on approach and which wheel you will land on first.) You may not have time for "thinking" later.

Phase 3 - Base - The base leg will be flown at 90 to 100 mph. I use the turn to aid in decreasing speed and lower my RPM to around 1600 to 1800. During the base leg, I will descend to an altitude of approximately 500 agl.

Phase 4 - Turn to final - This is one of your great opportunities to decrease altitude. I usually slip (if it is a left pattern) on this turn to decrease altitude to 300 agl as I enter the final leg. It is important that you determine your best altitudes for each of the legs and always consider safety. In other words, remember, in case of engine failure, altitude is your best asset!

Phase 5 - Final - Your two most important considerations on final are altitude and speed. You can always decrease altitude with a controlled slip. (The KR slips very good.) However, it is extremely difficult to decrease speed once you have let it build up. On final I will fly at 80 mph until I reach mid final, then I will decrease to 70 mph. I will hold this speed until short final (cross the end of the runway) at which time I begin decreasing speed.

Phase 6 - Float - The KR is so close to the ground that you will encounter ground effect in a VERY big way. You can and should use this to your advantage in making the "perfect" landing. Patience is a huge virtue during this phase. I will NEVER land my airplane above 60 mph. If I try, and for the first 60 hours I tried all the way up to 80 mph, I WILL bounce!!! The reason for this is very simple. When you touch the main wheels down, the tail will lower, your angle of attack will increase and you will go back up in the air. This will continue until you are at the appropriate speed. What we want to do is make the landing once rather than getting current (bounce 5 times) every time we decide to land. Remember, we had just crossed the end of the runway decreasing speed out of 70 mph. At this time I pull back the throttle all the way and try to hold my KR inches off the runway. The more I concentrate on holding it off by inches the better landing I am able to make. I will glance, VERY quickly, at the airspeed indicator until it is below 60 mph and then I will continue to pull back on the stick concentrating on NOT touching down but instead maintaining the inch or two above the runway. When the stick is approximately one half the way back, we are now somewhere between 50 and 55 mph, I will let it then settle on the runway. Then I will raise the tail to decrease the lift and allow me to see over the nose. I have seen airspeeds, solo, as low as 40 mph before I actually touch the wheels down. I will continue to apply forward pressure on the stick keeping the nose up until I am almost to the limit. Next I will allow the tail to come back to the runway and then apply full back pressure on the stick to ensure the tail wheel stays on the ground as it takes over directional control from the rudder. If you are landing in a crosswind most experts agree you should wheel land the airplane and raise the tail to ensure the mains are securely on the ground. Ensure you apply the appropriate aileron going all the way to full. These controls of aileron and elevator must be managed as you complete your landing and as you taxi. You will learn how much of a crosswind component you and your KR are capable of over time and I recommend all early flights are with a crosswind component of less than 5 kts. I have found that the crosswind component I am capable of handling is more a function of my piloting ability (practice) than the airplane.

If I follow my own procedures, I will make a good landing every time. However, I seem to make exceptions when concentration lapses. For example, if I lower the nose on final I will gain speed very quickly, usually to 100+ mph, and this makes the landing more difficult unless you are very good at using slips to decrease speed. Another point that should be made is that when flying with two people I will raise the speeds on final by 5+ mph compensating for the increase in weight and stall speed.

What happens if I bounce? The first thing you have to decide is how bad of a bounce is it? I put bounces into three categories. First is BAD. If this is the case or if everything just doesn't seem right your only good option is to advance the throttle to full and go around. Don't worry about your ego just do it, GO AROUND. Second is a small bounce. If you come back up 6 inches to a foot, then don't over control, just re-land the plane. The reason for the small bounce was probably that you were going too fast when you let the airplane set down. The third bounce is in-between. The recovery from an in-between bounce will depend upon your skill level with your KR. If you have only been flying for 10 hours, you should probably go around. However, as your skills improve there is another option. To recover, apply approximately half throttle, stop the oscillation, and re-land the airplane. This only works if you stay in ground effect and remember you are very close to a stall so DON'T try this unless you are comfortable with your plane, your skills and you have a long enough runway.

I certainly hope the information will prove helpful as you think about test flying your KR or are trying to improve your landings. If you can visualize and plan each phase of the landing process you will be able to make "perfect" landings. I am not a flight instructor and only present the information here in hopes you will not make the same mistakes I did in my early flights. If you would like to discuss these phases prior to flying your KR then give me a call. Perhaps we can improve this narrative for others.

Good Landings
Jim Faughn  4323D Laclede Ave   St. Louis, MO  63108  314-652-7659   Cell 573-465-8039

--
Jim Faughn  N8931JF
St. Louis, MO
(314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039
  - --------------465B250C1AAE4C5D700E44A5-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:13:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KROnline Newsletter Jim, I uploaded an HTML version of your article to my server for anyone who may need it in the future. If there are any objections let me know and I will remove it. Its at: http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/landing.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 22:15:44 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Some good news on the gross weight issue. Ohhh I love Good Data! Definately worth the price of KRNET admission! Peter Hudson wrote: > > hi gang, > > I've just had some luck on the gros weight issue. While talking about > it with some work mates at lunch I found someone with an OLD edition of > Bruhn (for the non engineer types Bruhn is the bible of aircraft > structural analysis). In fact its a 1949 edition so it still had the > section on wood spar design/analysis. The good news bit is that the > forrest products lab had done extensive testing on exactly our type of > box spar for spruce. There are different allowables for the spruce in > spars based on some shape factors of the spar caps and webs. The values > are stronger than test specimens in pure compression (due to the > nonlinearity of wood at failure depending somewhat on the shape) > FOR THE KR-2 SPAR the allowables for ultimate compressive rupture are > 6670 PSI and for the elastic limit is 4900 PSI. > > Not counting any contribution from the rear spar that gives the > following limits. > > For 5.7 g ultimate (FAR 23 for normal catagory) > the gross weight allowable is 1035 lbs (plus the weight of the wings) > for My KR with 100 lbs of wing the gross weight should not exceed 1135 > lbs. (ultimate is the driving factor here...limit load works out to 4.2 > g) > > So I plan to use 1100 lbs as my gross weight, leave my spar stock and > I'll feel good about it. (I trust Bruhn implicity!) > > I'll write again with an appropriate set of V-N diagram data soon based > on that gross weight and strength. > > -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 22:19:59 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: VW Type 4 engine Ed, Steve Benett is the resident VW guru on KRNET (He is the guru behind Great Plains Aircraft), I think his email address is gpasc@aol.com, but I could be mistakin. - -- Ross enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > Hey folks, I just acquired a type-4 VW engine a guy had overhauled and > semi-converted for use on a KR-2, but I have a couple of questions about it. > > It's on a standard Diehl-type motor mount on the firewall and has a prop hub > (and 52x48 prop). It has standard auto spark plugs in it, has the oil system > converted OK, but has no ignition system what-so-ever on it. At the back of the > engine, where the magneto would be, is a pointed end. It has a new everything > inside it (pistons, cylinders, crank, etc.). There is no intake or exhaust > system. > > Do you have any thoughts about getting the rest of the parts for this beast? I > think getting parts for the type 4 is difficult, isn't it? > > Ed Newbold > Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:36:36 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: split flaps Micheal Mims wrote: > > Have another beer Ross! :o) How about not installing flaps period! A > speed brake (belly board) will work just fine! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike, I like the speed brake idea... unfortunatly I cut these little wedge shapped thingies out of my stub wings, and the only way I can figure out how to get them back is to put hinges on them. :) I may add a speed brake some time in the future. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:38:01 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Flipping over KRs! You will not regret it!.. I've just put on the first topcoat on the belly, and Geez... I'm not to interested in getting underneath to sand, and spray another... When that is all done, I've got the system III clearcoat to put on whew! - -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 10:06 PM 10/8/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Mike, > > My recommendation, while you've got her belly up.. paint it! > > > > I thought... well just one more thing, but once I had it flipped, > >I wanted to hang the engine... just gets harder to flip back over. > > > > Good Idea Ross! I think while she's upside down I will do all the foam and > glass work and belly board (speed brake) of course but will also glass the > belly from the firewall back to the main spar with a good wet layup and a > layer of glass then paint the entire belly with epoxy,..sand it down and > apply the primer. I doubt I will ever flip it upside down again so I better > do everything while its there! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:42:16 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 6] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C99601BAA29769BAFC15F95F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit approved - --------------C99601BAA29769BAFC15F95F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id FAA03703; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 05:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 05:21:47 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199710091221.FAA03703@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 6 >From krnet-l-owner Thu Oct 9 05:21:43 1997 Received: from host.ld.centuryinter.net (www.ld.centuryinter.net [206.65.161.250]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA03692 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 05:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp0010.ms.centuryinter.net by host.ld.centuryinter.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/16Aug95-0520PM) id AA22392; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:21:38 -0400 Message-Id: <9710091221.AA22392@host.ld.centuryinter.net> From: " Mike Filbrandt" To: Subject: Re: Aircraft Design Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:27:59 -0000 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Scott, I'm new to the KR list also. I'm here 'cause I'm currently doing a KR-1, but have been flyin' the 2-stroke stuff like you're talkin' about for about 6-7 yrs. Mostly faster stuff than the Cloud Dancer, but the same in general. I also subscribe to another list that deals more with this type of craft. It can be rather informative at times, but also has some general BS on it too. Ya got to kinda sort through that stuff. If you're interested in checking out that list, please contact me direct at redbaronflyrs@centuryinter.net & I'll tell you how to subscribe. If you're ever around Northern Wisconsin, let me know & I can get you into one for a demo ride. A friend of mine owns the airport where we fly & we have a 2-place Challenger & a 2-place Titan for doing just such things. TT ya later. Blue Skies, Mike - ---------- > From: Scott Goodman > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Aircraft Design > Date: Thursday, October 09, 1997 10:04 AM > > Greetings to all. > I am a new member of the list as well as the KR fan club. I'm a senior in > college attending East Carolina University in Greenville, NC, with a major > in the Industrial Technology program. > > For years I have been scanning advertisements and magazines for a kit plane > that fit my needs (looks really cool, has a decent range, and respectable > cruise). I believe that I've found it. The KR series of aircraft seem to > be exactly what I've been looking for. Unfortunately, I don't have nearly > enough cash to start a KR project, and even if I did, I don't have the > space for it (though I'd probably do it anyways-I'm quite impulsive ; ] ). > > > In order to quench my thirst for flight, I am considering ultralights. I > have perused a couple thousand web pages and have concluded that the US > Aviation-Cloud Dancer has caused me to salivate more than any other UL > design. Following are the specs; please pardon the length: > > Top Speed, mph ........... 63 > Cruise, mph ............ 55 > Range, s.m. ............ 250 > Rate of Climb, fpm ... 600 > Takeoff Distance, ft... 120 > Landing Distance, ft.. 170 > Service Ceiling, ft. ....15,000 > Engine Used .......... Rotax 277, 28hp > Fuel Capacity, gal. .. 5 > Empty Weight, lb. ... 253 > Gross Weight, lb. .... 520 > Height, ft. ............... 4.5 > Length, ft. .............. 20.0 > Wing Span, ft. ........ 40.0 > Wing Area, sq.ft. .... 133.0 > No. of Seats .............. 1 > Landing Gear ......... tailwheel > Bldg. Materials ...... sheet metal,tube,fabric > Bldg. Time .............160 hrs > Kit Cost ................ $9,275 > > No plans are available for this aircraft, but the specs (if correct) are > incredible to me-over 200 miles on 5 gallons of autogas(!) and I can run > about as fast as this thing stalls. Being a hands-on type of guy with some > design & drafting experience, I would like to emulate this motor-glider > with my own design. I have built and flown a dozen or so radio controlled > model aircraft, and I've piloted a C172 for about 20 minutes (dont have my > PPL yet-graduation present from dad when I finally get out of school). > > I am confident in my ability to design, build and pilot this craft, but I > have never embarked on such a task as this. My goal is to design and build > a craft with similar specs to the Cloud Dancer with a minimal budget. > > I've designed a portion already, including such innovations as a hand laid > fiberglass tail boom, full flying elevator and hot-wired foam ribs to name > a few. I'm lacking in the areas of load calculations, materials > implementation, airfoil selection, covering materials and sources for the > materials I'll need while building, among other things. There is a 172 > page publication sold by the makers of the VolksPlane-1, Evans Aircraft, > entitled 'Lightplane Designer's Handbook' which is advertised to cover > aerodynamics, engines, props, properties of wood, aluminum, steel, > composites, flight & landing loads, et cetera. If anyone has reviewed or > evaluated this text, comments would be helpful before I order. > > I would appreciate any help on this project that you can supply. If anyone > objects to this project being addressed on this list, or if there is > another list more closely pertaining to these topics, please let me know. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Scott Goodman, > Unlicensed Dreamer > > > - --------------C99601BAA29769BAFC15F95F-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:44:53 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Flaps I like spoilers too (Sailplane days I guess). Tony Bengilis' books have a reasonably good section on spoiler and flap design in case you haven't seen it. I also understand that EAA chapters can get a discount on the Sportplane Builder seires of books ... although as a Chapter Pres. I don't know anything about it myself... perhaps I will find out. -- Ross Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > KRNetters- > > Has anybody investigated the use of spoilers, ala Precise Flight, for > use in glide path control, rather than flaps? The things I'm thinking > of mount to the rear face of the main spar, pop up out of the top of the > wing with a scissor action; not spoiler "flaps" on top of the wing like > on sailplanes. > > Hey- I like the idea of the speed brake "belly board" too; a guy could > run the PRT (pilot relief tube) right out the bottom. Pop that puppy > open a tad when the need arises, and... > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:50:39 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam sucks! How in the world was that accomplished? I liiiike it! Looks like it is time to shop around for a hot wiring kit. Wow. Nice Job! John F. Esch Salem, OR Scott Goodman wrote: > > Check out the picture at: > > > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/wingcore.jpg > > > > to get a better idea of what I am doing. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Micheal Mims > > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > Mike, > Thats one beautiful piece of foam! Nice work. > Congratulations. > > Regards, > Scott Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:02:49 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Limbachs Bob, I think by taking a close look at a Limbach one could figure out what had been done. Steve Benett of Great Planes offers a Force-1 HUB & bearing which might be one area where Limbach modified the engine. Great Planes is not affilated with Limbach in any way, but does offer VW conversion kits and built up VW engines. I also belive Mosler motors offers VW conversions here in the US. My opinion is that after the few VW's with cast crankshafts were weeded out... the VW is a reasonably reliable powerplant. Time will tell.. I haven't started mine yet... hopefully this winter. -- Ross smithr wrote: > > Ed Janssen wrote: > > Limbachs are significantly higher in price than VW conversions found here in > > the US. Noticed that at an Oshkosh booth, Limbach reps were particularly > > agitated by people who make comments like "Isn't that a just VW engine?" > > Don't know the major mechanical differences tho. > > Essentially the Limbach is a VW. Since Limbachs are certified in Europe > and therefore reliable, it would seem to be very valuable to us VW guys > to find out what modificaitions have been done to make the VW so > reliable. I,for one, would love to have that information (and HP), but > I suppose that Limbach would be reluctant to give it out. How can we get > it? > > Bob Smith, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:07:43 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy sealer Good post. I'd also like to comment that I have experienced a little bit of plywood grain show through after the primer coat of system III primer. I could have used feather-fill or thrown on two or three more coats of primer. I've decided at this point that the topcoat looks good enough, but a product like this epoxy sealer, might have done the trick for me. - -- Ross Rex Ellington wrote: > > G'Day > > After Dan Diehl's presentation at the Gathering, I have started > gathering informaiton on some of his suggestions. The first > was an epoxy sealer that he suggested would yield a surface on > one's plywood ready for painting with minimal or no surface > filling. This could eliminate the need for covering with glass > fiber 'silk'. > > I contacted Smith & Co., Richmond, CA, 1-510-237-6842 and > obtained information sheets on a number of their products, > especially "Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer" (tm). Here are several > quotes from their brochure. > "Impregnation of wood with CPEStm changes the cellulose of wood > (which fungi and bacterial find tasty and easily digestible) into > epoxy-impregnated-cellulose which resists further attack ... while > reinforcing the wood,.... The wood is strengthened while allosing > normal expansion and contraction with changes in humidity and > temperature. Paint or varnish will last longer because the paint has > a strongly attached, chemically compatible surface to bond to. > ... The resin system is derived from natural wood resins and so > develops a chemical adhesive bond to the wood fibers themselves." > > Further, paraphrasing, If we apply something (paint) over something to which > a CPEStm sealer has been applied and only partly cured, the (paint) > proceeds to cure first and then the CPES giving a firm bond to the > (paint). So one might wish to coat the inside of the fuselage first > and the coat the outside as part of finish painting. > > I take no responsibility for any of the quotations, and only suggest > that it does appear interesting and some of you might wish to do > some testing. I intend to do so. > > Their 'tear sheets' also discuss a wood glue that probably deserves > test by a number of us. > > Rex Ellington > Norman OK > Rex T. Ellington > ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:11:08 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: [Fwd: member search] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------9F9AF47A315C86970DBB15E9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Help? - --------------9F9AF47A315C86970DBB15E9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Kr2dream@aol.com Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by smtp3.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA21144 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:14:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Kr2dream@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA12952 for rossy@teleport.com; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971009191238_-695296735@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: rossy@teleport.com Subject: member search Ross: I am looking for a potential member by the name of Bill Owens. He is building a KR-2S with a direct drive subaru engine. I would appreciate being able to contact him with specific questions relating to engine installation. Any help in locating him would be appreciated. I got his name from the engine supplier. Thanks Bob Lasecki Chicago (500 hours and still going) - --------------9F9AF47A315C86970DBB15E9-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:14:35 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts Say John, How about your Area code and initials... I took N541RY. Would you be N503JE, or N541JE? I did this as all the nifty RY N numbers were taken by other people who didn't even OWN KR's! Can you believe this! -- Ross John F. Esch wrote: > > I will ordered the 97 gathering video as soon it comes available. I was > another person who couldn't make it to the gathering (DARN IT). The > last video encouraged me to buy plans. Will register my KR here soon > also. Just trying to think up a N-number. hmmmm > > John F. Esch > Salem, OR > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > At 03:07 PM 10/9/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >For those of us who were unable to attend the testing program > > >discussion, would it be possible for someone to post the points > > >covered and suggested procedures to follow. > > > > > >CW Crane > > > > > > > The best thing for you to do is buy the 97 gathering video! > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Micheal Mims > > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:17:04 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: (Fwd) (Fwd) Gathering thoughts Mark, That's a nasty one. I registered mine a year ago, but here in Oregon we don't have state sales tax. So I guess I don't have to worry, nor does John. We also can't buy self-serve Gasolene either, but hey, you can't have everything. Here you tell that you need gas, by the bug count on your windshield in the summer, everytime you get gas you usually get the windshield cleaned. Sorta Pre-70's for everyone else. -- Ross Mark Langford wrote: > > John F. Esch wrote: > > > Will register my KR here soon > > also. Just trying to think up a N-number. hmmmm > > John, > > Be advised that the instant you register your KR, the state tax man will > probably be all over you to pay taxes on everything you buy out of state > (since it's rare that out of state companies charge state tax on out of > state orders). Just thought I'd warn you so you can take appropriate > action. Of course, paying as you go may be preferable to what happened to > our EAA president when he registered his Mini-Max. He was presented with a > rather large bill, and told to pay up now or he'd be hauled to court...and > he's a senior officer with the Huntsville Police department... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #124 *****************************