From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 9:16 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n127' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #127 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Wednesday, October 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 127 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:21:10 -0700 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: John Denver >John Denver Accident > >Well folks, as an EAA Chapter president, it is with much sadness I will add >what I have discovered on this accident. We believe John was flying an EZ he >just purchased about 3 weeks ago from the Van Snow, Santa Paula, CA. This >would suggest John was somewhat new in type, although I am unable to confirm >this. > >I do know that John was a decent stick in a Christian Eagle biplane that he >owns and flies. It is unknown if any aerobatic flight was involved at the >time of the accident. I will say that, as we all know, the EZ is well proven >by thousands of safe flight hours around the world. > >John was in Santa Monica, CA about 2 months ago. He tried to buy the EZ (a >very nice one) of a friend of mine, but was turned down. I heard John was >apparently very interested in buying an EZ immediately. Van's EZ was one of >the nicest around. It was very fast. He won many of the races that Shirl >Dickey sponsors each year in it. > >John Denver was a wonderful person. Our heartfelt condolences go out to >John's family. He will be missed. > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA This is a real bummer, he was a great musician, and he wasn't too bad in "Oh, God!" either. I heard a witness on CNN say they heard a "snap" and the thing came straight down, not spinning or anything. Even if it was engine failure, I wonder why (or if) he didn't glide it in. Hope the facts get out so we can find out what really happened sometime. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:23:53 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: [Fwd: Builder in Japan?] David, can you get a msg to Tim and ask him if he can find an SVX and what the cost is? I'm looking for a 6 cylinder Subaru. Rich McCall Junction City, KS David Moore wrote: > KRnetters, > I thought I would pass along this message I received this morning from Tim > Schuy the builder in Japan. > > >TU>>I've forgotton the name of the KRnetter who is dowing the Subaru > >TU>>missionary work in Japan :) . Can someone email this person and help > >TU>>them out! > >TU>>-- Regards > >TU>> RossReturn-Path: j_link@directv.co.jp > > >Yes it me, Tim Schuy who has been working with the Subaru engines. Hit a > >snag here and there but things are stabilizing. Been real busy with the > >airline job, which is the reason I'm living here in Yokohama. Havew > >started work on my engine first before building the KR-2S, and things > >are coming together for me. Just wish I wasn't so busy with the work. > >Summer time is real busy for us. Love the over time pay though. > > > >If someone wants to contact me about the engines my phone number is > >045-622-3548 here in Yokohama. I'm hard to catch at home, but the answer > >machine and fax machine is on and I do return my calls. Be happy to > >help someone with my source to these engines. Much more cheaper then > >what you would expect. Remember these people here have a tendancy to > >give up these cars over here much to early then what we would do in the > >states. Average milage that I have seen on these things has been around > >30,000 kilometers. Some higher and allot more below. Can get the EA-81 > >for about $200 from an car that is about 6 to 7 years old, from the > >wrecking yard. > > > >Cheer's to all, > > > >Tim Schuy > >New KR-2S builder in Japan. > >E-mail mouse@heiwa.com > > > > > > > > David Moore > Turnkey1@MSComm.com > Hesperia, Calif. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:48:59 -0700 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: Here goes again. Ross Youngblood wrote: > > Mike, > Yellow is a terrific color. I knew a Long Eze builder who painted > his bird yellow, and was frowned on by Burt Rutan, but the guy decided > the risk of not being seen was greater than that of heat damage to the > structure. I tended to agree, it was a wonderful looking airplane. > > -- Ross > > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > 1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com Forty million canaries can't be wrong ;-) Bruce S. Campbell Tampa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:29:45 -0500 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Robert Covington wrote: > > >John Denver Accident > > > >Well folks, as an EAA Chapter president, it is with much sadness I will add > >what I have discovered on this accident. We believe John was flying an EZ he > >just purchased about 3 weeks ago from the Van Snow, Santa Paula, CA. This > >would suggest John was somewhat new in type, although I am unable to confirm > >this. > > > >I do know that John was a decent stick in a Christian Eagle biplane that he > >owns and flies. It is unknown if any aerobatic flight was involved at the > >time of the accident. I will say that, as we all know, the EZ is well proven > >by thousands of safe flight hours around the world. > > > >John was in Santa Monica, CA about 2 months ago. He tried to buy the EZ (a > >very nice one) of a friend of mine, but was turned down. I heard John was > >apparently very interested in buying an EZ immediately. Van's EZ was one of > >the nicest around. It was very fast. He won many of the races that Shirl > >Dickey sponsors each year in it. > > > >John Denver was a wonderful person. Our heartfelt condolences go out to > >John's family. He will be missed. > > > >Randy Stein > >BSHADR@aol.com > >Soviet Monica, CA > > This is a real bummer, he was a great musician, and he wasn't too bad in > "Oh, God!" either. > > I heard a witness on CNN say they heard a "snap" and the thing came > straight down, not spinning or anything. > > Even if it was engine failure, I wonder why (or if) he didn't glide it in. > > Hope the facts get out so we can find out what really happened sometime. > > Robert Covington Isn't strange or basicly human to have everyone who knows that you are building or are interested in "Home Made" airplanes has something to offer when news strikes in the media of a celebrity/aviation event? We woke up to the news this morning of the John Denver incident and my wife was the first of many to-day to ask "Are you still going to build that Home Made airplane"? Answer "Yes I am". John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:08:12 -0500 From: Mark Pierce Subject: Re: KR: Painting >Ross Youngblood wrote: > > Mark, > > Thanks for the comments! > I noticed the spanning problem last night, it spans over the striping > tape. Yuck. But it looks like a tough film of paint. > > I still like a water reducable system better than having to deal > with temperature chosen reducers. We shall see in a couple of years > how it looks. > > -- Ross Ross, I wouldn't get too excited yet. System III really is tough stuff and my guess is that when used over a solid surface like the surfaces on your KR it will do just fine. - -- Mark Pierce markpi@oz.sunflower.org PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol KR2S (future) http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:50:09 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Palmer's molded parts Oscar asked, and Brian replied: > Check out this for info on the parts Lester has availabe! > > http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/klppl1.jpg This is Lester's machined hardware list, but when I asked him if about how he made his cowling, he said it was made from a female mold, along with all the rest of his parts, and that he could (and would, if asked) whip up some more, for a fee... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:48:30 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: Lowered GPS price/ Headset Question. Sorry Ross. I'm got nothing but bad to say about FlightComms. I have 3 sets and all 3 sets have been back to the factory 3 times. I've paid for repairs each time. When will I learn? John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - skinning the belly Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- snip > > I looked hard at the Flightcom Eclipse and was going to get one of those > as they are an Oregon based company, (all other things being equal), I > also got some good reviews of the Peltor headset. Both of these were > around $170 or so. > > -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:58:24 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Lowered GPS price/ Headset Question. At 08:48 PM 10/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >Sorry Ross. I'm got nothing but bad to say about FlightComms. I have 3 >sets and all 3 sets have been back to the factory 3 times. I've paid for >repairs each time. When will I learn? > >John Bouyea >johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net >kr2s - skinning the belly >Hillsboro, Oregon > I have two sets of DC H10-40s and have had them for a few years (since the 10-40 first came out) and one died about 3 years after I bought it. DC fixed it for free and they paid for the shipping! Otherwise the performance has been outstanding! And they both were sufficiently abused when I was a flight instructor. I have gel ear seals and head band and they are very comfortable. You get what you pay for. Mike "headset snob" Mims GO BIG GREEN!! (DC) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:03:31 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: John Denver >> >> Robert Covington >Isn't strange or basicly human to have everyone who knows that you are >building or are interested in "Home Made" airplanes has something to >offer when news strikes in the media of a celebrity/aviation event? >We woke up to the news this morning of the John Denver incident and my >wife was the first of many to-day to ask "Are you still going to build >that Home Made airplane"? >Answer "Yes I am". >John Roffey >jeroffey@tir.com > Yeah, well, one of the problems is that we're hog-tied to the word "experimental" until a word with a better connotation is used by the FAA. Human nature causes people to be critical of things not fully understood. I think we (EAA organization) try to protect our activites a bit by using "EAA" instead of "Experimental Aircraft Association" in much of our advertisments and call our main magazine "Sport Aviation". To the general non-flying public, most insurance companies, and the news media, we're taking an unusually high risk in this sport. We all know the highest risk is traveling to and from the airport in our car. I'm afraid that, in our lifetimes at least, we'll all be Rodney Dangerfields - won't get any respect from outsiders. Might as well accept the fact and trudge along and enjoy ourselves for as long as we are allowed. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:32:02 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Re: Priming Foam >Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:11:12 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >From: Ron Lee >Subject: Re: KR: "Prming foam" for fiberglass wet layup >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > >>When I first read this I was thinking, "Wouldn't it weaken the bond between >>skin and foam?" But if the bond strength is actually unimportant, why not do >>it? In fact, if the bond strength is unimportant, why even use a waterproof >>glue? Dilute Elmer's glue mixed with micro would fill the foam as well as >>aliphatic resin glue. >> > >I would not assume that foam to fiberglass bond strength is unimportant. >At least in the Long-EZ, debonds of the foam fiberglass are to be fixed > >Ron Lee > >> >>Mike Taglieri >> >> > Okay, again- from a NON-expert; in reading (yes, READING, Randy!) about this topic in composite design books, there is reference to peel strength. I guess the importance is if you start to get a delamination or some damage somewhere, you really don't want that to allow that whole section of skin to peel off the airframe. So, although the skin itself is quite strong, if it's not well bonded to the structure beneath, a little problem could quickly become a big one? Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:20:23 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: Ed Janssen > >> > >> Robert Covington > >Isn't strange or basicly human to have everyone who knows that you are > >building or are interested in "Home Made" airplanes has something to > >offer when news strikes in the media of a celebrity/aviation event? > >We woke up to the news this morning of the John Denver incident and my > >wife was the first of many to-day to ask "Are you still going to build > >that Home Made airplane"? > >Answer "Yes I am". > >John Roffey Might as well accept the fact and trudge along and enjoy > ourselves for as long as we are allowed. > I don't know if this was ever mentioned, but Denver had purchased his bird the previous day or had just picked it up(if you are to believe news reports). Not sure if he had ever flown one (probably) and equally not sure how well he had inspected the engine before he bought it (probably not). In all likelyhood, it will probably never be determined whether or not it was haste, pilot error, contaminated fuel (probably) or bad luck. Half expected the headlines to read "Country boy buys the farm". Or "Country boy plows the field." How about "Country boy augers for water." Sad day for his many fans. Easy to listen to. Too bad the aviation will likely be the fall guy. (no pun intended.) - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:39:09 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: John Denver At 11:20 AM 10/14/97 -0400, you wrote: In all likelyhood, it will probably never be determined whether or >not it was haste, pilot error, contaminated fuel (probably) or bad luck. > Can we just let JD die? I have the misfortune of meeting the guy twice and trust me I wasn't all that impressed! He was a rude, obnoxious SOB who was tanked up all the time. I don't know maybe he joined AA and was cleaned up by he time Randy interacted with him but if not I can give you one more guess as to why he may have augured in! Sorry to be so rude, its not like I don't have respect for the dead but....... ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:55:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: John Denver On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Micheal Mims wrote: > At 11:20 AM 10/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > In all likelyhood, it will probably never be determined whether or > >not it was haste, pilot error, contaminated fuel (probably) or bad luck. > > > > Can we just let JD die? I have the misfortune of meeting the guy twice and > trust me I wasn't all that impressed! He was a rude, obnoxious SOB who was > tanked up all the time. I don't know maybe he joined AA and was cleaned up > by he time Randy interacted with him but if not I can give you one more > guess as to why he may have augured in! Sorry to be so rude, its not like > I don't have respect for the dead but....... > RIP JD We do have to contend with the news media hype and the full blown NTSB investigation. When was the last time an EXPERIMENTAL was reconstructed just like TWA 800? I expect to hear that Rutan has been called in to assist with the investigation. Hope EAA public relations department is on theit toes. News media did report that there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. THe eyewitness reports indicated that the plane nose dived streight into the water, no spiraling. Sounds like either the canard failed or the engine departed controlled flight leaving the plane without the Lycoming ballast in the rear - bird strike with a wood propeller resulting in unballanced prop tearing out the engine? Steve newtech@newtech.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:20:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Denver Probe to Take Months >>>Top Stories Summary - Oct 14, 11am EDT Denver Probe to Take Months Investigators say it will take months before they can determine what caused the plane crash that killed singer-songwriter John Denver. He died Sunday evening when the experimental Long-EZ plane he was piloting nosedived into the Pacific Ocean and disintegrated on impact off Monterey, California. Authorities say Denver, an experienced pilot, bought the plane the day before. Because of the Columbus Day holiday, investigators still do not have records on who built the aircraft about ten years ago and who owned it before Denver.<<< Interesting this could lead to builders of homebuilt aircraft being held liable for the planes they construct! The news media here on the west coast is having a field day with the word EXPERIMENTAL! I predict 60 minutes or 20/20 will run a piece on how dangerous they really are and how our government allows Joe Blow or anyone else who wants to build and airplane do so! No matter what happens, this aint gona be good! Interesting no one has mentioned suicide or substance abuse. After all LongEZs just don't nose dive in to the ocean by themselves! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:16:39 +-200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: RE: KR: John Denver Try under the name Henry John Deutchendorf. John Denver was his stage name. A long standing admirer of John Denver. If you have a chance listen to the words of "The Eagle and the Hawk" by John Denver and Mike Taylor from the LP AERIE Kobus de Wet - ---------- From: Ross Youngblood[SMTP:rossy@teleport.com] Sent: 14 October, 1997 00:24 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Re: KR: John Denver John Roffey wrote: > > Anybody know what John Denver was flying yesterday? The news said it was > an experimental but did not say what make or model. I just hope it > wasn't a KR2S or any other KR. > John Roffey > jeroffey@tir.com Well the news said first it was an ultralight, then it was a two seater fiberglass plane. Could have been just about anything. Seems the engine quit. I tried to do an Owner lookup to see what kind of planes John Denver owns, but couldn't get anything back from the search engine at landings.com. I was hoping we could figure out the plane type this way. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:46:55 -0700 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Denver Probe to Take Months >Interesting this could lead to builders of homebuilt aircraft >being held liable for the planes they construct! That's a thought that passed through my mind too. I'm assuming the builder of Denver's aircraft had the good sense to have him sign a waiver absolving the builder of any responsibility in the event of an accident. I had no qualms whatsoever in signing this type of waiver when I bought Bill Reents' KR-1. It's just plain old good "common sense." >The news media here on the west coast is having a field day >with the word EXPERIMENTAL! I predict 60 minutes or 20/20 will >run a piece on how dangerous they really are and how our >government allows Joe Blow or anyone else who wants to build >and airplane do so! No matter what happens, this aint gona be good! I know. The media will blow this thing really out of proportion, just like they did with that danged "Jessica - the child pilot" story. How pathetic that they have to try to panic the public every time there's an aircraft accident in order to stimulate their magazine sales or program ratings! >Interesting no one has mentioned suicide or substance abuse. >After all LongEZs just don't nose dive in to the ocean by themselves! Although John did get a couple of alcohol-related speeding tickets, he was also known throughout the EAA as being a pretty good pilot, flying a Christian Eagle (spelling?) quite a bit. The early coroner reports (thus far) haven't even hinted at anything drug or alcohol related in this instance. As an aside, ground observers reported hearing a sharp "crack" or "pop" type noise immediately prior to the aircraft diving straight in. Perhaps the forward canard fractured (maybe due to high G forces) and broke off. Loss of that canard would cause the aircraft to assume an immediate nose-down vertical descent, with an immediate LARGE increase in speed. Perhaps. We'll see sooner or later. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:49:46 -0700 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: John Denver >Can we just let JD die? ... Sorry to be so rude, its not like >I don't have respect for the dead but....... Hmmmm. Mike. This doesn't appear to be in very good taste. Not like you at all. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:55:26 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: John Denver On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:39:09 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:20 AM 10/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >In all likelyhood, it will probably never be determined whether or >>not it was haste, pilot error, contaminated fuel (probably) or bad = luck. >> > >Can we just let JD die? I have the misfortune of meeting the guy twice = and >trust me I wasn't all that impressed! He was a rude, obnoxious SOB who = was >tanked up all the time. I don't know maybe he joined AA and was cleaned= up >by he time Randy interacted with him but if not I can give you one more >guess as to why he may have augured in! Sorry to be so rude, its not = like >I don't have respect for the dead but....... > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >=20 >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > I agree with Michael! Can we quit trying to guess why he crashed? He shouldn't have even been flying since his license was revoked last year! Let's let this thread die also. I don't care why people think it might have crashed. I will wait to find out what the FAA and the NTSB finds out. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:17:49 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: Steven A Eberhart > et al > > > At 11:20 AM 10/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > > In all likelyhood, it will probably never be determined whether or > > >not it was haste, pilot error, contaminated fuel (probably) or bad luck. > > > > > > > Can we just let JD die? ....... > > > Already taken care of. > RIP JD > > THe eyewitness reports indicated that the plane nose dived streight into > the water, no spiraling. Sounds like either the canard failed or the > engine departed controlled flight leaving the plane without the Lycoming > ballast in the rear - bird strike with a wood propeller resulting in > unballanced prop tearing out the engine? > As a matter of fact.... I was over visiting the flying club about 2 weeks ago and the AME was working on an enginless C-150. It seems that the engine (0-200) literally blew up on the runway while a student and instructor were on a roll-out during T&G's. A piece of the starter clutch had broken off and dropped into the sump whereupon it was jammed up against the crankshaft during low rpm. The result was a disintegrated crank and parts of it scattered throughout the cyl's, exhause and manifold. Engine totalled with a sharp bang in less than a second. In any of our homebuilts, we stand the chance of that happening despite any efforts to the contrary. Just luck of the draw. The AME told me that if this had happened during climbout or cruise, Bang! Gone! The front of the aircraft would be removed abruptly. The Long-EZ, engine being in the rear, would break apart and destroy the aerodynamics in a much more spectacular way. Had the engine remained with the aircraft, upon verticle impact with the water, its momentum would cause it to continue on its merry way through the cockpit into the deep. No wonder fingerprints were the identifying factors. Suspect his last words were "Oh! God!" (no offence to the religeous amungst us) - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:43:30 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: John Denver At 10:49 AM 10/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Can we just let JD die? ... Sorry to be so rude, its not like >>I don't have respect for the dead but....... > >Hmmmm. Mike. This doesn't appear to be in very good taste. Not like you at >all. > >Ed Newbold >Columbus, OH > Actually I think it maybe just like me! Just ask Randy, he has accused me of shooting then asking if it hurt! :-[ Anyway sorry for the rude and crude post! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:43:17 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Here goes again. i also have seen a long ez painted yellow here in WA. at arlington air show, the owner said he had not had any trouble with heat and yes it did look good. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:08:10 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Denver Probe to Take Months YA, thats a fact, I have been in a couple long ez that have been flying for some time back in the 80's in cal. and they are still flying. i don't know if one will glide with out an engine but i do know they will with an engine. they are a very nice airplane and yes we are going to hear alot about this from people WHO HAVE NO CLUE ON THIS MATTER. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:45:06 -0700 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: J.D. >Actually I think it maybe just like me! Just ask Randy, he has accused me >of shooting then asking if it hurt! :-[ Hehehehe. You and Randy (aka Mark ;-> ) sure make a wild pair! >Anyway sorry for the rude and crude post! Ah heck; it wasn't *that* rude & crude. Later, big guy! Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:12:24 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Ditto here. I liked him and his music .. attended his concerts stateside and in Europe. He was extremely good. We will miss him, his music, and his love of nature. Just goes to show you that there are some awfully good folks in this world and they depart us to soon! John Denver was a man who left his mark on this world as he passed walked through it, a human being with caring and concern for others, and a leader amongst us in his own way. We wish him well where ever he may be, for he is surely missed here! Rich McCall Junction City, KS Robert Covington wrote: > >John Denver Accident > > > >Well folks, as an EAA Chapter president, it is with much sadness I will add > >what I have discovered on this accident. We believe John was flying an EZ he > >just purchased about 3 weeks ago from the Van Snow, Santa Paula, CA. This > >would suggest John was somewhat new in type, although I am unable to confirm > >this. > > > >I do know that John was a decent stick in a Christian Eagle biplane that he > >owns and flies. It is unknown if any aerobatic flight was involved at the > >time of the accident. I will say that, as we all know, the EZ is well proven > >by thousands of safe flight hours around the world. > > > >John was in Santa Monica, CA about 2 months ago. He tried to buy the EZ (a > >very nice one) of a friend of mine, but was turned down. I heard John was > >apparently very interested in buying an EZ immediately. Van's EZ was one of > >the nicest around. It was very fast. He won many of the races that Shirl > >Dickey sponsors each year in it. > > > >John Denver was a wonderful person. Our heartfelt condolences go out to > >John's family. He will be missed. > > > >Randy Stein > >BSHADR@aol.com > >Soviet Monica, CA > > This is a real bummer, he was a great musician, and he wasn't too bad in > "Oh, God!" either. > > I heard a witness on CNN say they heard a "snap" and the thing came > straight down, not spinning or anything. > > Even if it was engine failure, I wonder why (or if) he didn't glide it in. > > Hope the facts get out so we can find out what really happened sometime. > > Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 23:22:28 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: John Denver In a message dated 97-10-14 12:14:03 EDT, Steve wrote: << I expect to hear that Rutan has been called in to assist with the investigation. Hope EAA public relations department is on theit toes. News media did report that there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. >> Our chapter has a close relationship with both Rutans and the Berkut people. When John went in, the news media was all over a number of us (yes, me too). LA is the hot bed of info AND hype. All the slim TV "news" magazines were crawling all over the Santa Monica airport the morning after the accident. We have a fair number of EZs besides the Berkuts that are popping out of the factory back door. The jist was everyone was looking for the sensational dirt that builds ratings. Most of us have been down this road before with the media (remember, it is LA) so we have a decent damage control system in place. The word on the street as far as dealing with the media was: Scaled Composites - Said - Don't give the media anything (not my preference). EAA OSH - Said - Be honest and positive, don't talk dirt, let the NTSB do their job and report back. Klaus Savier (sp?) put Van and John together in the sale of this aircraft. We arranged for local EZ pilots to be interviewed by the Media, again as an on going effort at damage control. We took a pounding in Santa Monica when the instructor Jessica was riding with augered in and as such, try to keep the positive information flowing for the press to see (even if they do not use it). The press I spoke with didn't use my comment about why guys choose to build their own planes using current technology, rather than buy a new 30 year factory airplane at 10 times the price. He mumbled something about that not being sexy enough...(sigh) John liked to "yank" his biplane around (a Christian Eagle). He did also have two DIU "incidents" and may not have had a ticket to fly anything as PIC at the time of the accident. John did seem to march to the beat of different drummer, if you know what I mean. John seemed hot for a new toy and an EZ was in his sights. My limited experience in EZs suggest smooth flying technique is a positive. The NTSB will have the final word in a few months. I suspect I may hear somt'in through the grapevine sooner than that. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:56:15 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam In a message dated 97-10-14 09:35:56 EDT, you write: >>>When I first read this I was thinking, "Wouldn't it weaken the bond >between >>>skin and foam?" But if the bond strength is actually unimportant, why >not do >>>it? In fact, if the bond strength is unimportant, why even use a >waterproof >>>glue? Dilute Elmer's glue mixed with micro would fill the foam as >well as >>>aliphatic resin glue. >>> >> >>I would not assume that foam to fiberglass bond strength is >unimportant. >>At least in the Long-EZ, debonds of the foam fiberglass are to be fixed >> >>Ron Lee >Okay, again- from a NON-expert; in reading (yes, READING, Randy!) about >this topic in composite design books, there is reference to peel >strength. I guess the importance is if you start to get a delamination >or some damage somewhere, you really don't want that to allow that whole >section of skin to peel off the airframe. So, although the skin itself >is quite strong, if it's not well bonded to the structure beneath, a >little problem could quickly become a big one? I would think that references to the Long-EZ would be relevant only if you were building a plane, like the Long-EZ, in which the structural load is carried by the foam. On a KR, as far as I understand, the load is carried by spruce and carried to the glass by the bond between glass and spruce, with the foam being present merely to keep the airfoil in the right shape. That's why it doesn't matter whether you use styrofoam or urethane, with its much lower peel strength, and why it doesn't matter how you stick the blocks of foam in the wings together -- foam, epoxy, hot-melt glue or chewing gum, if you were in the mood to use that, don't make a difference because the stuff is not structural. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:06:04 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: John Denver In a message dated 97-10-14 12:14:03 EDT, Steve wrote: << I expect to hear that Rutan has been called in to assist with the investigation. Hope EAA public relations department is on theit toes. News media did report that there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. >> Our chapter has a close relationship with both Rutans and the Berkut people. When John went in, the news media was all over a number of us (yes, me too). LA is the hot bed of info AND hype. All the slim TV "news" magazines were crawling all over the Santa Monica airport the morning after the accident. We have a fair number of EZs besides the Berkuts that are popping out of the factory back door. The jist was everyone was looking for the sensational dirt that builds ratings. Most of us have been down this road before with the media (remember, it is LA) so we have a decent damage control system in place. The word on the street as far as dealing with the media was: Scaled Composites - Said - Don't give the media anything (not my preference). EAA OSH - Said - Be honest and positive, don't talk dirt, let the NTSB do their job and report back. Klaus Savier (sp?) put Van and John together in the sale of this aircraft. We arranged for local EZ pilots to be interviewed by the Media, again as an on going effort at damage control. We took a pounding in Santa Monica when the instructor Jessica was riding with augered in and as such, try to keep the positive information flowing for the press to see (even if they do not use it). The press I spoke with didn't use my comment about why guys choose to build their own planes using current technology, rather than buy a new 30 year factory airplane at 10 times the price. He mumbled something about that not being sexy enough...(sigh) John liked to "yank" his biplane around (a Christian Eagle). He did also have two DIU "incidents" and may not have had a ticket to fly anything as PIC at the time of the accident. John did seem to march to the beat of different drummer, if you know what I mean. John seemed hot for a new toy and an EZ was in his sights. My limited experience in EZs suggest smooth flying technique is a positive. The NTSB will have the final word in a few months. I suspect I may hear somt'in through the grapevine sooner than that. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #127 *****************************