From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:03 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n129' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #129 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Wednesday, October 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 129 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:30:16 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Missing Messages? I just received an email from teleport Majordomo Admin. There was a minor problem with one of the mail servers which was upgraded to Solaris 2.6. This server was taken out of the rotation, and things should be OK now. If you've missed some email you can have majordomo send you some of the recent digests. Send a mail with "help" as the body text to majordomo@teleport.com and look at the index and get commands to get majordomo to send you the digests. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:35:48 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Foam and stuff Micheal Mims wrote: > > Well tonight was kinda of a milestone for me, at least the visual impact of > seeing what looked like a wing on the left side of my airplane made it feel > like a "milestone" . I know how that feels. I was really excited when the boat started looking less and less like a boat! -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:41:07 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: JD...again Micheal Mims wrote: > > Man I know where your coming from! If I hear another dumb question from the > people at work my head is going to explode! I am glad my wife grew up in a > military aviation family and is a fairly bright individual! Her first > reaction was "How the heck did HE break a LongEZ" , I guess I should > consider myself lucky to have a wife that's in the know! Yes the NTSB will > sooner or later come to a conclusion, we all have our guesses but that's > all they are,...guesses! I think aerobatics could have played a part but > you would have to really lean on an EZ to break it with only one up! Oh well > hang in there, 1000's of EXERIMENTALS fly every day and crash less often > than spam cans. > I agree... I've been isolated from co-workers (I work from home these days... but I've gotten email from them. It's OK, I'm going as Wrong Way rossy. - -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:04:27 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > > I agree with Michael! Can we quit trying to guess why he crashed? He > > shouldn't have even been flying since his license was revoked last > > year! Let's let this thread die also. I don't care why people think > > it might have crashed. I will wait to find out what the FAA and the > > NTSB finds out. > > His license was revoked? Thats news to me. This question is over whether his medical certificate was valid. First, the NTSB said it had been revoked, apparently over concerns regarding alcohol abuse. Now, it seems they are backpedaling, saying that his medical certificate was "denied" and, since it's a medical issue, it's confidential and they can't say any more. I haven't seen it in print, but I've also heard that he did not surrender his certificate voluntarily and is fighting the revocation. It looks like it will be a while before even this seemingly minor detail will be sorted out. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net The GMC Motorhome Page http://www.gmcmotorhome.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:02:04 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: FWD: KR builders son curious about project completion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------7991A45388F659A751F5ECB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a new KRNETTER looking to discover if his fathers KR was ever completed. I suppose we would need to either know the SN of the project, or the name of the original builder... - -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------7991A45388F659A751F5ECB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: spies@pixel.kodak.com Received: from kodakr.kodak.com (kodakr.kodak.com [150.220.251.69]) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12498 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pixmap.pixel.kodak.com by kodakr.kodak.com with SMTP id AA17885 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:36:26 -0400 Received: from pixel.kodak.com (semaphore.pixel.kodak.com [129.126.217.3]) by pixmap.pixel.kodak.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05207 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: 15 Oct 1997 14:37:12 -0400 From: "Rick Spies" Subject: Re: KRNET To: "Ross Youngblood" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; Name="Message Body" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply to: RE>KRNET Here is my reply. As I said in my comment when registering, I thought KRNET may be a = resource to find out if my father's KR2 project was ever completed and = flown. What do you think, is this a reasonable way to find out by asking = the KR community on the net? Thanks! - -------------------------------------- Date: 10/15/97 2:15 PM To: Rick Spies From: Ross Youngblood Send me a reply to this email test & I will add you to KRNET-L -- Regards Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------7991A45388F659A751F5ECB-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:00:09 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: John Denver At 11:20 AM 10/15/97 -0700, Ross Youngblood wrote: >His license was revoked? Thats news to me. > > -- Ross > >-- > Well technically his medical was pulled following two DUI incidents. So in effect yes his license was suspended. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:45:05 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Denver Probe to Take Months (double ,double vision) At 09:20 AM 10/14/97 -0700, Micheal Mims wrote: >>>>Top Stories Summary - Oct 14, 11am EDT >Denver Probe to Take Months Investigators say it will take months before they can determine what caused the plane crash that killed singer-songwriter John Denver I am having double , double vision again! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:06:00 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Antenna Stuff (CONT) Ed, I just ordered the book and kit from RST electronics on building my own antenna... the kit is $39, but the book is only $5.00. I will comment after I've read it. For now their homepage is http://www.rst-engr.com (I think). The com manual I have suggests that the antenna be placed in the center of a 42" diameter ground plane. This is not for a whip antenna, but for a spam can mounted blade type (I think). I expect the RST book to answer my COMM need. I have a question on a Transponder antenna. I have this approx 3" long stub with a ball on the end, and wonder what type of ground plane it would like... -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:55:17 -0500 From: Mark Pierce Subject: Re: KR: Painting Hang in there Ross. Just pull the tapes as quickly as you can after applying the trim color. Also, if you sand with #600 before applying the clear coat you'll get colors smudged across the line (even using stokes only along the line). Try a soft eraser to clean up on either side of the line. Stumbled onto this while cleaning up some pencil marks and it worked for me. MarkPi Ross Youngblood wrote: > > Mark, > > Thanks for the encouragement. I still like the paint and would > recommend it... we shall see what I say in three years. > > I taped for black stripes an N numbers last night... hopefully > I will spray some black today! > > -- Ross > Mark Pierce wrote: > > > > >Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > Thanks for the comments! > > > I noticed the spanning problem last night, it spans over the striping > > > tape. Yuck. But it looks like a tough film of paint. > > > > > > I still like a water reducable system better than having to deal > > > with temperature chosen reducers. We shall see in a couple of years > > > how it looks. > > > > > > -- Ross > > > > Ross, I wouldn't get too excited yet. System III really is tough stuff > > and my guess is that when used over a solid surface like the surfaces on > > your KR it will do just fine. > > > > -- > > Mark Pierce > > markpi@oz.sunflower.org > > PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC > > Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol > > KR2S (future) > > http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ > > -- > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > 1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - -- Mark Pierce markpi@oz.sunflower.org PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol KR2S (future) http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:08:07 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Antenna Stuff (CONT) At 01:06 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Ross Youngblood wrote: >Ed, > >I just ordered the book and kit from RST electronics on building my >own antenna... the kit is $39, but the book is only $5.00. I will >comment after I've read it. For now their homepage is >http://www.rst-engr.com (I think). I just did the same thing an hour ago! We should ask for the KRnet discount! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:59:09 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: Patrick Flowers >I haven't seen it in print, > but I've also heard that he did not surrender his certificate > voluntarily and is fighting the revocation. It looks like it will be a > while before even this seemingly minor detail will be sorted out. > > Patrick > -- Taking it to a higher court by augering in? Counterproductive methinks. Oh! Sorry, you meant he was fighting the revocation. :-) - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:30:09 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: John Denver In a message dated 97-10-15 13:36:14 EDT, Randy wrote: << Our chapter has a close relationship with both Rutans and the Berkut people. When John went in, the news media was all over a number of us (yes, me too). LA is the hot bed of info AND hype.... [large snip] >> Hey! Second time around for this message too! OK Mim's, you been taking my computer to Starbucks again? That is a NO NO. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:02:21 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Newbie with 1/2 vw question On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:52:16 -0700 enewbold@sprynet.com writes: >>Hello All, >>I'm a newbie to this list. My primary interests are vw and 1/2 vw. I >>have been reading the list archives re: 1/2 vw balancing and have a >>quick question. > >>Say I have a two bladed propeller. Should I mount the propeller with >>the blades in the plane of the crank throws or perpendicular to that >>plane? > >>Sid > > >I think Sid has a valid question here. How 'bout it anyone? Jeff? >Bobby? > >Ed Newbold >Columbus, OH > > I don't have an answer for you, but should see the experts at our EAA chapter meeting tomorrow evening. Will post an answer on Friday. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:50:11 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Resin at low temperature On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:59:29 -0700 Alessandro Pecorara writes: >Well, it's Fall again! Now temperature, here, is well below 70°F (that's >50 to 60°) so it's time to quit with those epoxy works. Just a question: >could dry micro be less temperature sensitive? I wonder if filling >glassed surfaces when temperature is a bit low, may be acceptable: glad >to receive any comment. > >alessandro pecorara > My experience with resins and cold weather has indicated to me that the more micro you have mixed with the resin, the harder it is to get a good set. The epoxy needs to be with more epoxy to get the chemical reaction to cause it to set. Thinning it out with micro tends to slow the reaction down and makes it set even slower, if at all. Even with heat in the garage, I would often have gummy resin after 24 hours. By all means, do some test pieces, but I found it to be problematic. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:30:17 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Copperstate Stuff On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:33:18 -0400 (EDT) BSHADR@aol.com writes: > >KRNetters: > >>From the Dragonfly list, written by Nate Rambo > >>The winds and turbulence were wild for return to the coast. Mason gave up >>and decided to stay in Tucson Monday hoping to get better conditions Monday. >>I'm not sure if every body else got home Sunday. I did but I'm recovering >>from a four hours of apprehension (spelled "headwinds and turbulence") in >>the air. The trip home sorta sucked! >> >Nately > I had a good time at Copperstate. Met up with Troy, Tom, Charlie, Matt and Al. Troy and Tom are KRNetters, the rest were properly recruited and I have heard from some via e-mail since the fly-in. We all spent an afternoon talking KRs. The weather at Copperstate was great. Nice temps, reasonable winds, etc. The aerobatic acts were quite good. The F-15 flight demonstration was quite impressive. Attendance was down from the last couple of years. That was attributed to the forcast for the stuff listed above. That's also why I left my KR at home and snuck in riding right seat in a Cherokee. :o( It was a pretty funky ride to and from the fly-in including headwinds and turbulance high up in the mountains both ways and skirting some mountain snow squalls along the way home. The ride home turned out to be better than forcast, but at times I was glad my plane was home in it's hanger. The only KR in attendance was the yellow one that was at Perry with the yarn tufts on the left wing. He was passing through on his way to CA and decided to spend a day or two at the fly-in. Rand Robinson was also not in attendance, although I understand they were one of the venders selling plans last year. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:33:27 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Painting Mark Pierce wrote: > > Hang in there Ross. Just pull the tapes as quickly as you can after > applying the trim color. This is a for what it's worth, no personal experience. A guy at the local EAA chapter who paints A/C all the time says to use the fine line tape on all trim, wait a bit (his words, about 4 hours) before pulling tape. He says it "rolls over" and needs nothing else. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:38:11 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Resin at low temperature Alessandro Pecorara wrote: > > Well, it's Fall again! Now temperature, here, is well below 70°F (that's > 50 to 60°) so it's time to quit with those epoxy works. Just a question: > could dry micro be less temperature sensitive? I wonder if filling > glassed surfaces when temperature is a bit low, may be acceptable: glad > to receive any comment. > > alessandro pecorara It will still cure, but it will be slower and may have problems with adhesion. A possible aid to cure is to cover the entire area with something and have a low power heat source. I have used plastic sheets and cardboard boxes to make small, temporary enclosures, and then used a light bulb as a heat source. This can extend your glassing season a bit. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Updated Website Bill's KR Aviation Homepage has been updated and soon to have an expanded KR dedicated Photo Library. There are already 82 Photos online for your viewing and all about KR's! Be sure to check out the new look, and check back often to see what is New. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3050/ Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:57:12 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: big snip > I would think that references to the Long-EZ would be relevant only if you > were building a plane, like the Long-EZ, in which the structural load is > carried by the foam. On a KR, as far as I understand, the load is carried by > spruce and carried to the glass by the bond between glass and spruce, with > the foam being present merely to keep the airfoil in the right shape. That's > why it doesn't matter whether you use styrofoam or urethane, with its much > lower peel strength, and why it doesn't matter how you stick the blocks of > foam in the wings together -- foam, epoxy, hot-melt glue or chewing gum, if > you were in the mood to use that, don't make a difference because the stuff > is not structural. > > Mike Taglieri The skin to foam bond is required and is in fact a structural element, it just doesn't need to be very strong. The air load on the wing has to be transferred to the spar. The foam is a vital element of that stress transfer. If you built a KR style wing, but with no bond between the foam and the glass skin, the wing will fail! The reason the joint does not need to be very strong is that the air load, even at a high G, is spread out over a very large surface area. To put it in perspective with round numbers, a 1000 pound plane at 5 G's, will be supporting a 5000# air load. If it has 100 ft^2 wing area, then each ft^2 will have an air load of 50#, each ft^2 has 144 in^2, which means 0.347 #/in^2, and since a wing has a top and bottom surface, an average air load is 0.174 #/in^2 for the skin. This is not much and doesn't require much strength. This is a REALLY simple way to explain it, but the hard way comes out the same. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:36:07 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam At 09:57 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Donald Reid wrote: why it doesn't matter whether you use styrofoam or urethane, with its much lower peel strength, and why it doesn't matter how you stick the blocks of foam in the wings together -- foam, epoxy, hot-melt glue or chewing gum, if you were in the mood to use that, don't make a difference because the stuff is not structural. >> >> Mike Taglieri > >The skin to foam bond is required and is in fact a structural element, it just doesn't need to be very strong. The air load on the wing has to be transferred to the spar. The foam is a vital element of that stress transfer. If you built a KR style wing, but with no bond between the foam and the glass skin, the wing will fail! The reason the joint does not need to be very strong is that the air load, even at a high G, is spread out over a very large surface area. Thanks Don, I have been trying like heck for over two years to stop the rumor that the KR wing foam does nothing! The wing will fail without it, but some still do not believe it. Humm... what does it take? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:55:23 -0700 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam >At 09:57 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Donald Reid wrote: > why it doesn't matter whether you use styrofoam or urethane, with its much >lower peel strength, and why it doesn't matter how you stick the blocks of >foam in the wings together -- foam, epoxy, hot-melt glue or chewing gum, if >you were in the mood to use that, don't make a difference because the stuff >is not structural. >>> >>> Mike Taglieri >> >>The skin to foam bond is required and is in fact a structural element, it >just doesn't need to be very strong. The air load on the wing has to be >transferred to the spar. The foam is a vital element of that stress >transfer. If you built a KR style wing, but with no bond between the foam >and the glass skin, the wing will fail! The reason the joint does not need >to be very strong is that the air load, even at a high G, is spread out >over a very large surface area. > >Thanks Don, I have been trying like heck for over two years to stop the >rumor that the KR wing foam does nothing! The wing will fail without it, >but some still do not believe it. Humm... what does it take? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike, If the wing will fail without it, then how do those planes using the Diehl wing skins fly? Is is just because the skins are thicker or something? Seems to me the sparcap to glass bond is the really important thing overall. This doesn't mean I don't think foam matters, because I do. ET, foam home. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:23:33 -0400 From: dennis ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Limbach EO 2000(KR2 for sale) At 12:15 PM 10/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >Ross > >Does anyone know the specs and reliability of the Limbach EO 2000 >engines? All I know that there is one for sale and it is 80 hp and >complete with all accessories. Also, there is a O-200-A Cont. for sale >for $3500 w/logs. > >John F. Esch >Salem, OR > If you want to talk to someone with 400 Hrs. on a KR2 with that engine, there is an add in the latest C.O.P.A. (Canadian Owners and Pilots Assn.) paper. Details as follows: KR2 Tri-gear,400TT, Limbach 80 Hp., VHF,Loran,Mode C, intercom,lights, strobe, AME maintained, hangered, 130 kts., 3.5 g.p.h., Dan Diehl wings. Must sell. B.O. over $10,000 CDN. Phone (514)455-9847 I think it's in Montreal, Quebec. You might need to speak french, but not likely. Give them a call and see what they say! nes't pas? Regards Dennis (In Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:04:21 -0400 From: Scott Aldrich <71714.1611@compuserve.com> Subject: KR: Bend Over Bought a Tri-Pacer last year. Got a fairly good deal on it and it has been a good airplane. Now it is annual time. It has been in the Mechs. hanger for 2 weeks now (The only AP, I/A in Heber, Utah). No major squaks, just a couple of minor fabric repairs around inspection holes, and replace brake linings.. The rest of the time supposedly spent on "routine annual checks. " O.K. so where am I going with this?? Here's the good part - they are approaching 80 hours of labor at $42.50 / hour!!!! The mechanics have you by the balls with these certified airplanes. This is our first and LAST annual we will ever pay for. Half the price of a KR down the drain #%%!##^*&##!! I will stop whinning now. Just had to vent before there is one less I/A around. Ben D. Over!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:07:30 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Stepping on KR Wing Stubs >Thanks Don, I have been trying like heck for over two years to stop the >rumor that the KR wing foam does nothing! The wing will fail without it, >but some still do not believe it. Humm... what does it take? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Michael, since you are using the hotwire foam method, are you trying to make the area just outside the cockpit strong enough to step on? If so, what did you do to reinforce that area? Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:30:57 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam At 07:55 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Robert Covington wrote: Mike, >If the wing will fail without it, then how do those planes using the Diehl >wing skins fly? > >Is is just because the skins are thicker or something? > The Diehl skins are a composite structure. Each skin consist of a 1/4 inch foam core (probably last-a-foam) with glass on each side and they look as they are cured under vacuum. They are NOT just a single fiberglass skin wetout with epoxy. In fact the way the Diehl skins are constructed I would venture to guess they are up to 4 times as strong as the plans built wings. Does that description make any sense? Remember each skin is a foam and glass sandwich which makes then VERY ridged, remember the panel I passed around at the gathering during the fiberglass demo, the one with the 1/4 foam core and a layer of glass on each side? They are sorta like that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:39:44 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Bend Over At 11:04 PM 10/15/97 -0400, Scott Aldrich wrote: >" O.K. so where am I going with this?? Here's the good part - they >are approaching 80 hours of labor at $42.50 / hour!!!! The mechanics have you by the........................ A friend of mine decided to buy a cheep airplane to build time in, I think he bought a Piper Pacer with a fresh annual. He flew it for X amount of hours and then annual time came around. He had a few repairs in the fabric (much like yours) and two cracked jugs that the Mechs said had been cracked for a while. He spent enough on his first annual to rent a Piper Senaca III for almost 3 times as many hours as he put on his Pacer and take an ATP accelerated course. Needless to say it was a hard lesson for him. If you want an example of what it can be like to own a certified plane, drive down the road in your car and every fifty miles throw a 100 dollar bill out the window. Yea, that's about right! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:40:40 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Antennas revisited Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 10:08 AM 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi folks! I would like to know from the antenna specialists out there in the > >crowd how to set up a VHF antenna which will connect to my King KX-99 handheld > >radio in a KR. > > Ed if someone response to you personally please share it! I also would like > to know the answers to your questions! > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike, Ed & Ross, Maybe this will give you some ideas. This is how I mounted my antenna in my KR. Used RG58U, removed the outer insulation and removed the center conductor from shielding by threading it through at about the 24" inch mark. Used formulae 234/fMHz which is about 1.97'. The center conductor with the dialectric on, I glassed it into my verticle fin. The braid I attached to approximately 2'x2' piece of tin foil, glued to the inside of the turtle deck right at the base of the fin. On my SWR check with the needle in full forward power, it barely moved the needle in reverse power. So I knew I had a good match You can use any random length of transmission line to your instrument panel. Mine was one continouse piece with no splices or RF bumps. My handheld was an STS 5watts (no longer manufactured in Florida). I had very good luck with my com and worked ground stations 90 miles away. The max radiation pattern would be over the base groundplain which was toward the nose. Just could not see myself buying a manufactured antenna since they are so simple to make, it's not the antenna but how you install it and prove out the antenna. Don't be satisfied with anything but a flat line or very low SWR play with it until you get it down. Theory is one thing but real life is another. The little short 3" transponder antenna that Ross mentioned is the very same as the one that I had. At about 2' behind the back of the seat I epoxied a 12"x12"x1/4" plywood to the longeron and glued tin foil to the top of it before the antenna was mounted in the vertical position. I never had any signal problems with this arrangement. Used an encoding AT150 for my transponder. I used an 8AH sealed motorcyle battery for my 12 volt supply and always turned off my transponder when I got out of the control zone. Hope some of this helps - Good Luck! - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:46:57 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Stepping on KR Wing Stubs At 09:07 PM 10/15/97, Ron Lee wrote: >Michael, since you are using the hotwire foam method, are you trying to >make the area just outside the cockpit strong enough to step on? If so, >what did you do to reinforce that area? > >Ron Lee > The left wing stub has a 7 gallon tank in it with two plywood ribs. At the intersection of the inboard rib and aft spar its pretty strong and after covering the stub wing with the tri-ply cloth I think I should be able to step just about anywhere in the fuel tank area as it is glassed in the inside with two layers of 6 oz. I will paint a black area right over the area of the rib and spar and tell everyone to step only in that area. I climbed in a few nights ago stepping on the aft spar and it worked just fine. The tri-ply glass should hold up to just about anything except those spike high heals that the girls around here wear! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:51:44 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Antennas revisited At 10:40 PM 10/15/97 -0600, Adrian Carter wrote: Maybe this will give you some ideas. This is how I mounted my antenna >in my KR. Used RG58U, removed....................... Adrian, good to hear from you! How are things? We should get that KR out and go buzz the country side! :o) MIght be a tad too cold in the great white north for buzzing though! Thanks for the antenna bit, I printed it and put it in my construction manual. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:03:39 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Painting Mark, Thanks for the tip on #600. I sprayed the black this afternoon (played hookey from work for an hour), then at about 4:30 (1-1/2 hours later) pulled the tape. Things came out much better, a lot less bleedthrough under the tape, and fewer rough edges. I think that making an effort to insure the tape was applied with pressure. (I went over it with the end of a utility knife), made all the difference with the 3M fine-line tape. It looks SOOO good with the N numbers on it. I have one last tape job for a small red pinstripe, then I sand the belly for the last coat of white. At that point I will touch up any areas that need white paint, and add my no-skid additive (Thanks to Jeff Scott). -- Ross Mark Pierce wrote: > > Hang in there Ross. Just pull the tapes as quickly as you can after > applying the trim color. Also, if you sand with #600 before applying > the clear coat you'll get colors smudged across the line (even using > stokes only along the line). Try a soft eraser to clean up on either > side of the line. Stumbled onto this while cleaning up some pencil > marks and it worked for me. > > MarkPi > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > Mark, > > > > Thanks for the encouragement. I still like the paint and would > > recommend it... we shall see what I say in three years. > > > > I taped for black stripes an N numbers last night... hopefully > > I will spray some black today! > > > > -- Ross > > Mark Pierce wrote: > > > > > > >Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the comments! > > > > I noticed the spanning problem last night, it spans over the striping > > > > tape. Yuck. But it looks like a tough film of paint. > > > > > > > > I still like a water reducable system better than having to deal > > > > with temperature chosen reducers. We shall see in a couple of years > > > > how it looks. > > > > > > > > -- Ross > > > > > > Ross, I wouldn't get too excited yet. System III really is tough stuff > > > and my guess is that when used over a solid surface like the surfaces on > > > your KR it will do just fine. > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Pierce > > > markpi@oz.sunflower.org > > > PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC > > > Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol > > > KR2S (future) > > > http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ > > > > -- > > > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > > PIN#895-9073 > > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > > 1632 > > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com > > -- > Mark Pierce > markpi@oz.sunflower.org > PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC > Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol > KR2S (future) > http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:04:51 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Antenna Stuff (CONT) I'm going to lobby for the Karmic standard for KR aircraft... (if you install a radio.) Soon... I get to do the wiring. Cant wait to spin the engine up. -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 01:06 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Ross Youngblood wrote: > >Ed, > > > >I just ordered the book and kit from RST electronics on building my > >own antenna... the kit is $39, but the book is only $5.00. I will > >comment after I've read it. For now their homepage is > >http://www.rst-engr.com (I think). > > I just did the same thing an hour ago! We should ask for the KRnet > discount! :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:10:01 -0700 From: Ross Subject: KR: AVNET news This was emailed from Landings periodic email... some of you may be getting these. > Speaking of grassroots aviation, Piper just unveiled their 300MPH > turbine powered Mirage highbred for 1.3 million. It was very well > received as a low end but comfortable corporate ride. > If 1.3 million is grassroots, then they must be using some powerful amounts of Miracle Grow! - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:14:40 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 09:57 PM 10/15/97 -0700, Donald Reid wrote: > why it doesn't matter whether you use styrofoam or urethane, with its much > lower peel strength, and why it doesn't matter how you stick the blocks of > foam in the wings together -- foam, epoxy, hot-melt glue or chewing gum, if > you were in the mood to use that, don't make a difference because the stuff > is not structural. > >> > >> Mike Taglieri > > > >The skin to foam bond is required and is in fact a structural element, it > just doesn't need to be very strong. The air load on the wing has to be > transferred to the spar. The foam is a vital element of that stress > transfer. If you built a KR style wing, but with no bond between the foam > and the glass skin, the wing will fail! The reason the joint does not need > to be very strong is that the air load, even at a high G, is spread out > over a very large surface area. > > Thanks Don, I have been trying like heck for over two years to stop the > rumor that the KR wing foam does nothing! The wing will fail without it, > but some still do not believe it. Humm... what does it take? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I buy this story ... load over large area = low stress per unit area. I think I remember somthing from that strength of materials class I dropped in College. -- Ross ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #129 *****************************