From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:06 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n130' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #130 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Thursday, October 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 130 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:20:17 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Bend Over Let's see $42.50 X 80 = 3400... Well not quite half the cost of a KR, For about $500 you can buy enough spruce and spend 80 hours building the sides. Or you could hire the A&P to do it for you, but then this would violate the 50% rule, and cost you $3900 total. Ouch. BTW, One of the members of my local EAA chapter flys the Tri-Pacer and swears by it. I think he does his own work and has the A&P approve it, but his Annuals cost $$$ as well. Ouch. But if you spend $3400/yr on maintence it had better fly when they are done. Thats 80 hours or C-152 rental wet here ($40/hr), unfortunatly its VFR only. -- Ross -- Ross Scott Aldrich wrote: > > Bought a Tri-Pacer last year. Got a fairly good deal on it and it has been > a good airplane. Now it is annual time. It has been in the Mechs. hanger > for 2 weeks now (The only AP, I/A in Heber, Utah). No major squaks, just > a couple of minor fabric repairs around inspection holes, and replace brake > linings.. The rest of the time supposedly spent on "routine annual checks. > " O.K. so where am I going with this?? Here's the good part - they > are approaching 80 hours of labor at $42.50 / hour!!!! The mechanics have > you by the balls with these certified airplanes. This is our first and > LAST annual we will ever pay for. Half the price of a KR down the drain > #%%!##^*&##!! I will stop whinning now. Just had to vent before there > is one less I/A around. > > Ben D. Over!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:23:33 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Painting Donald Reid wrote: > > Mark Pierce wrote: > > > > Hang in there Ross. Just pull the tapes as quickly as you can after > > applying the trim color. > > This is a for what it's worth, no personal experience. A guy at the local > EAA chapter who paints A/C all the time says to use the fine line tape > on all trim, wait a bit (his words, about 4 hours) before pulling tape. > He says it "rolls over" and needs nothing else. > I have to say that pulling the tape sooner instead of waiting overnight seemed to be a better solution. After the bleedthrough I had last time I also took care to spray a little differently (dryer, and more layers) to prevent a runny buildup along the edges... this seemed to do the trick. I really like the new gun, wish I had bought one sooner. I was really cheap. I expect I had to do a couple of additional coats due to the spraying problems I had with my old "dirty" worn out spray gun. I am cleaning this new gun like medical instrumentation every time now. -- Ross > Don Reid > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:27:17 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Resin at low temperature Donald Reid wrote: > > Alessandro Pecorara wrote: > > > > Well, it's Fall again! Now temperature, here, is well below 70°F (that's > > 50 to 60°) so it's time to quit with those epoxy works. Just a question: > > could dry micro be less temperature sensitive? I wonder if filling > > glassed surfaces when temperature is a bit low, may be acceptable: glad > > to receive any comment. > > > > alessandro pecorara > > It will still cure, but it will be slower and may have problems with > adhesion. A possible aid to cure is to cover the entire area with > something and have a low power heat source. I have used plastic sheets and > cardboard boxes to make small, temporary enclosures, and then used a light > bulb as a heat source. This can extend your glassing season a bit. > > -- > Don Reid > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Several years ago I bought an outdoor thermometer (like the type you look at out on your porch), and mounted it to the back of my workbench (pegboard area), then I bought an electric oil heater (it looks like a radiator with wheels), I'd fire it up and heat the shop for a couple of hours, then leave it on all night... boy my electric bill was tremendous, but I had a warm enough shop to do my wings a couple of falls ago. (It doesn't get too cold in the Willamete valley anyway just rainy). I also will vouch for the lightbulb idea, I had floxed the finger straner flanges in the fuel tanks, and was looking forward to finishing up the tanks the next day. Using the lightbulb the small area was dry within a couple of hours it seemed. (I don't know the actual time, but it was no longer tacky dry enough by the end of that day. -- Ross then I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:28:21 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Bend Over All this stuff is really great, I was considering buying a Piper Cherokee, but would have to sell everything to scrounge the down payment. Painting the KR, cured me. Also these stories help. Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 11:04 PM 10/15/97 -0400, Scott Aldrich wrote: > >" O.K. so where am I going with this?? Here's the good part - they > >are approaching 80 hours of labor at $42.50 / hour!!!! The mechanics have > you by the........................ > > A friend of mine decided to buy a cheep airplane to build time in, I think > he bought a Piper Pacer with a fresh annual. He flew it for X amount of > hours and then annual time came around. He had a few repairs in the fabric > (much like yours) and two cracked jugs that the Mechs said had been cracked > for a while. He spent enough on his first annual to rent a Piper Senaca III > for almost 3 times as many hours as he put on his Pacer and take an ATP > accelerated course. Needless to say it was a hard lesson for him. If you > want an example of what it can be like to own a certified plane, drive down > the road in your car and every fifty miles throw a 100 dollar bill out the > window. Yea, that's about right! :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:31:12 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Antennas revisited Adrian, Hey terrific post! Thanks for the Xponder tip. I was thinking of using foil, but didn't know how much to use. I never took the EE classes in college that required Maxwells equations, or those antenna plots... perhaps someday. If I want to check the preformance of my antenna, what type of equipment should I use. Or... how much should I expect to pay to have the local shop do the Xponder & Pitot check for me and also check the radio. Just a ballpark figure. Oh yea, I suspect I could ASK them? -- Ross Adrian Carter wrote: > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > > At 10:08 AM 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >Hi folks! I would like to know from the antenna specialists out there in the > > >crowd how to set up a VHF antenna which will connect to my King KX-99 handheld > > >radio in a KR. > > > > Ed if someone response to you personally please share it! I also would like > > to know the answers to your questions! > > > > ________________________________ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Micheal Mims > > Just Plane Nutts > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > Mike, Ed & Ross, > > Maybe this will give you some ideas. This is how I mounted my antenna > in my KR. Used RG58U, removed the outer insulation and removed the > center conductor from shielding by threading it through at about the > 24" inch mark. Used formulae 234/fMHz which is about 1.97'. > The center conductor with the dialectric on, I glassed it into my > verticle fin. The braid I attached to approximately 2'x2' piece of > tin foil, glued to the inside of the turtle deck right at the base of > the fin. On my SWR check with the needle in full forward power, it > barely moved the needle in reverse power. So I knew I had a good match > You can use any random length of transmission line to your instrument > panel. Mine was one continouse piece with no splices or RF bumps. My > handheld was an STS 5watts (no longer manufactured in Florida). I had > very good luck with my com and worked ground stations 90 miles away. > The max radiation pattern would be over the base groundplain which was > toward the nose. Just could not see myself buying a manufactured antenna > since they are so simple to make, it's not the antenna but how you > install it and prove out the antenna. Don't be satisfied with anything > but a flat line or very low SWR play with it until you get it down. > Theory is one thing but real life is another. > The little short 3" transponder antenna that Ross mentioned is the > very same as the one that I had. At about 2' behind the back of the > seat I epoxied a 12"x12"x1/4" plywood to the longeron and glued tin > foil to the top of it before the antenna was mounted in the vertical > position. I never had any signal problems with this arrangement. > Used an encoding AT150 for my transponder. > I used an 8AH sealed motorcyle battery for my 12 volt supply and > always turned off my transponder when I got out of the control zone. > Hope some of this helps - Good Luck! > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:22:00 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Foam and stuff Hey wait a minute! I resemble that remark! I just got my fuselage off the table for the first time this past weekend; I'm quit excited to HAVE a boat! It is very satisfying having a three dimensional structure, right Mr. Marvin? bou John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - skinning the belly Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Ross Youngblood > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Foam and stuff > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 11:35 AM > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > > Well tonight was kinda of a milestone for me, at least the visual impact of > > seeing what looked like a wing on the left side of my airplane made it feel > > like a "milestone" . > > I know how that feels. I was really excited when the boat started > looking less and less like a boat! > > -- Ross > > -- > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > 1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:23:54 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: One Piece Spars Anyone? I'm building in a pretty nice shop and have the space to build a one piece spar; seems like there could be a major weight and $$$ savings leaving out the spar attach fittings and associated bolts by building a single unit. Inquiring minds want to know if it has been done... John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - skinning the belly Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:44:06 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Foam and stuff At 08:22 PM 10/15/97 -0700, John Bouyea wrote: >Hey wait a minute! I resemble that remark! > >I just got my fuselage off the table for the first time this past weekend; >I'm quit excited to HAVE a boat! It is very satisfying having a three >dimensional structure, right Mr. Marvin? > Keep building big guy, the feeling just gets better and better! No doubt I will shed a tear when I roll it out into the sun after its final paint job! This is one big up hill battle but I AM winning! :o) By the way since the Subject area is correct, I finished glassing the upper skin on the left stub tonight, another neat feeling seeing a wing with fiberglass on it! WOO HOO!!! Has anyone used a hand power plainer? Dan Diehl recommends them and I was wondering if there are less expensive ones that will still do the job? Are they easy to use? How much should I pay? The reason I am asking is I plained the left spars by hand and I decided I DO NOT want to do the rest of the wings that way! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:47:34 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: One Piece Spars Anyone? At 10:23 PM 10/15/97 -0700, John Bouyea wrote: >I'm building in a pretty nice shop and have the space to build a one piece >spar; seems like there could be a major weight and $$$ savings leaving out >the spar attach fittings and associated bolts by building a single unit. > Dont know but if I had the room I would have given it great consideration! I see no reason you couldn't do it, just follow the recommended procedures for splicing the spar caps. You would have to pay close attention while building the aft spar to insure the proper washout would be obtained. Read EAA working with Wood and Tony's books on Sport Plane construction. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:58:05 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Antennas revisited In a message dated 97-10-15 13:24:02 EDT, you write: << I know the antenna gets soldered to the center wire of the coax. The braided shield is then twisted a little bit and soldered to a "ground plane" plate, right? OK. Then the questions I have are: 1. What size should this "ground plane" plate be (12"x12"?), 2. what material can I use for this plate (self-adhesive aluminum?), 3. and about what vicinity to the whip part of the antenna should this plate be mounted (in other words, how far away from the whip should this plate be)? >> Hi Ed.... the ground plane should be about 5% longer than your vertical element or about 25 to 26 inches *in radius* with the antenna mounted in the center of it. You may also substitute "radials" made from wire to give you more flexibility and save some weight. A minumum of 3 placed as equidistant (every 120 degrees) as possible. Four will work better.... just make an "X" with them extending out from each corner of your mounting bracket and the whip mounted in the middle of the bracket. Once, I put a chassis mount (female) BNC connector on an "L" bracket with coax connected to it (braid to the bracket and center to the center pin) with four 21" radials cut for the 2 meter ham band (144 to 148 MHz). I then assembled a male BNC connector with a 20" wire whip that was soldered to that connector's center pin and epoxied in place so it wouldn't touch the connector sides as it extended out the back of the connector. Then I put it on the one mounted on the "L" bracket and stuck it up in the attic....still works great 9 years later. You could mount an "L" bracket to one of the "V" braces behind the cockpit and run your radials out to the fuselage sides at a 45 degree angle or so from the bracket corners then forward/aft along the longeron. Solder a 24" wire to the center pin of a male BNC and plug that onto the one on the "L" bracket.... should fix ya up just fine! Use RG58A (B, or C) for the feedline. I plan on doing something like this for my 2-S except my whip will be along the vertical stab forward spar. The radials will go out along the horizontal stab and forward along the fuselage sides. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:10:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Web Site Update Sorry no pictures but I promise to have something up this weekend! I did add a scrolling message to the home page that I will update every week or so. Thanks to Adrian Carter, I hacked his web site to make the Java work! :o) Anyway if you have a Java enabled browser check out the messages if your bored! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:00:00 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Web Site Update Micheal Mims wrote: > > Sorry no pictures but I promise to have something up this weekend! I did > add a scrolling message to the home page that I will update every week or > so. Thanks to Adrian Carter, I hacked his web site to make the Java work! :o) > > Anyway if you have a Java enabled browser check out the messages if your bored! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims No wonder I am feeling so bad, I got hacked whoop poop pop pop!!!!!! - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:28:18 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes subscription Good idea, I have been a subscriber to Kitplanes since 1984, and what I do is everytime I go to an airshow, I look up the magazine sales booth. I get two years subscription for the same price as for a normal one year. Check it out the next air show you attend. Dave Moore At 11:17 AM 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >My daughter sells magazine subscriptions for her school every year. > >I'm pretty skeptical about the pricing of these fund raising things >but this year I compared and saved about $10 on my kitplanes >subscription renewal. > >Keep on the lookout for those kids in your neighborhood, and sign up >with them. I think I paid $17 or so. ... if you don't find one by >next year... let me know, and I can sell my daughter some more magazines >then. It's too late for this year. > > -- Ross >-- > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE >PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x >1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:28:19 -0700 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes subscription >Good idea, I have been a subscriber to Kitplanes since 1984, and what I do >is everytime I go to an airshow, I look up the magazine sales booth. I get >two years subscription for the same price as for a normal one year. Check >it out the next air show you attend. > >Dave Moore > I do this every couple years too, saves a lot of bucks.I think I got two years for about $26-27 bucks last time. You can get Private Pilot this way too. Even cooler, if you happen to need a particular recent back issue, you can usually get one or more for free if you subscribe. Sometimes they give them to you even if you _don't_ subscribe. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:26:14 -0400 (EDT) From: LVav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Copperstate and Barnaby Wainfan I almost forgot to mention that I sat in on a forum on drag reduction ( no, not dressing in women's clothes ) with Barnaby Wainfan of Facet Mobile fame on Sunday. There were actually 5 people in attendance counting myself! Afterward I asked him about the idea of making the fuselage straight or at least the widest near the aft edge of the wing and he said that on an aircraft as wide in relation to overall size as the KR is that it probably wouldn't make much difference and should probably be built "as close to the plans as possible" but agreed that the fillet between the wing and the fuselage side should make a noticeable difference if done so that the airflow remains as straight as possible. I still plan to widen mine and will still try to keep the sides straight as far back on the wing as I can but the fillet may be much more important. He also said that the Jabiru engine had caught his eye and that it's perfect for his next version of the Facet Mobile. Also for anyone intrested in two strokes, he said he no longer has any use for them since one failed on him and caused the demise of his first FM, besides he got tired of hauling around a BUNCH of two stroke oil! He even told us a neat trick that he did to a friends Twin Comanchee, used plastic spoons to make fairings for the door locks! Cut a hole for the key to fit thru and epoxied the spoon over it ( without the handle of course )! After a few other very small tricks they were able to get another 12 kts out of it without spending hardly any money! So look at your planes and think about anything anywhere that sticks out even a fraction of an inch and clean it up. For example, a big round rotating beacon that isn't faired can have more drag than both wings combined! Tom Kilgore Las Vegas, NV LVav8r@aol.com KR-2S 2% complete __I__ _______( X )_______ o/ \o ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:36:53 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: wacko email At 07:00 AM 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >Is it just my email or is everyone elses wacko too? A lot of the posts I am >sending to krnet are not showing up and I am getting double, double posts >from some users. I have only received about 10 post in the last five days, >Whats up? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > Mike, I have have the the same same problem problem. We just downloaded the new Microsoft Internet Explorer. Could it be the culprit? Ed J. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 1997 08:21:06 -0400 From: "Rick Spies" Subject: KR: Seeking owner of KR2 Projec Reply to: Seeking owner of KR2 Project Hello from a new KRNET subscriber. I'm hoping to have my curiosity = satisfied about a KR2 project my father started at the end of the '70's = and sold incomplete around 1984. He sold it to a guy in the Cleveland, OH area, possibly Rocky River, OH = or other town on the west side of Cleveland. The buyer may have been an = engineer at Union Carbide. The project was well along, with almost all = of the wood work complete and some of the metal components fitted. I'm trying to find out if the project was ever completed and if the plane = ever flew. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:02:05 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: John Denver Cary Honeywell wrote: > > > From: Patrick Flowers > > I haven't seen it in print, > > but I've also heard that he did not surrender his certificate > > voluntarily and is fighting the revocation. It looks like it will be a > > while before even this seemingly minor detail will be sorted out. > > Taking it to a higher court by augering in? Counterproductive methinks. > > Oh! Sorry, you meant he was fighting the revocation. :-) Well gee, I guess he *is* outside the FAA's jurisdiction now, but do *they* know that :o) Patrick "grammatically challenged" Flowers - -- Mailto:patri63@ibm.net http://www.gmcmotorhome.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:08:24 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: One Piece Spars Anyone? John Bouyea wrote: > > I'm building in a pretty nice shop and have the space to build a one piece > spar; seems like there could be a major weight and $$$ savings leaving out > the spar attach fittings and associated bolts by building a single unit. > > Inquiring minds want to know if it has been done... > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - skinning the belly > Hillsboro, Oregon As long as you have direct access to the runway, you can build a one-piece A/C and yes, you will have a lighter, cheaper plane. If the wings don't come off, then something must get smaller to transport to the airport. Falco (I think) fuselage comes apart at the back of the cockpit. A one piece wing that is removeable from the fuselage will require a different structural arrangement which might defeat your original lighter,cheaper, easyier premise. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:43:14 -0000 From: " Mike Filbrandt" Subject: KR: KR builders in/near Wisconsin KR-Netters, I bought a KR-1 project a while back that I am working on & have been here on the list for about 1-1/2 months. I was just wondering if there are any other KR builders or owners in my area. I'm near La Crosse, Wi. Any info on others around here would be greatly appreciated. Thanx in advance. Blue Skies, Mike Filbrandt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:25:01 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: Priming Foam Robert Covington wrote: RE: WING FOAM big snip > If the wing will fail without it, then how do those planes using the > Diehl wing skins fly? > > Is is just because the skins are thicker or something? > > Seems to me the sparcap to glass bond is the really important thing > Robert Covington I haven't seen the Diehl wings. I am too cheap to consider buying them, so I am going to assume that they are a glass, foam, glass sandwich like on Glassair, Lanceair, etc. Even if they are a only a glass surface with no foam, the following discussion remains true. Quoting from Modern Aircraft Design, by Martin Hollmann. "The airload that is generated over the top and bottom of the wing must be carried by the wing skins and ribs to the spar (my note: in a KR style wing, the foam takes the place of the ribs) The sandwich skin panels are supported by the ribs and the spar and it is important to attach the top skin to the ribs as shown ... As a conservative assumption, we state that all the shear load must be carried by the rib attachements to the spar. ..." There must be a rib based structure or its equivalent to transfer the air loads to the spar. I assume the Diehl wing has you install several ribs, spaced along the span of the wing. The wing skin transfers load through the ribs to the spar. In other words, no ribs, no wing. In our case, the foam does the exact same thing. Foam is not very strong, but it doesn't need to be. A few ribs, like in a typical rag wing, must be stronger, since each one is supporting a lot more load since it is concentrated in the smaller area of the rib. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:17:08 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Wing Foam and plywood stuff John Bouyea wrote: > > > I just got my fuselage off the table for the first time this past weekend; > I'm quit excited to HAVE a boat! It is very satisfying having a three > dimensional structure, right Mr. Marvin? > > bou > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - skinning the belly > Hillsboro, Oregon > ------------------------------------ Yes, it sure is. I put the plywood on after I built the fusalage frame and it is amazing how much stronger the fusalage is with the plywood on it. It is a big step since you can actually see something completed. It all went together very well. I have now got the spars glued up and will next be putting all the pieces together on the spars. I also just installed a gas heater in my shop so I can work this winter. Robert covington asked why the Deil wing skins do not fail. I think it is because they do have foam on them, although it is not as thick, they are glassed on both sides of the foam. This makes them quite strong. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:09:19 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Antennas revisited Ross wrote: > > Adrian, > Hey terrific post! Thanks for the Xponder tip. I was thinking of > using foil, but didn't know how much to use. I never took the > EE classes in college that required Maxwells equations, or those antenna > plots... perhaps someday. > > If I want to check the preformance of my antenna, what type of > equipment should I use. Or... how much should I expect to pay to have > the local shop do the Xponder & Pitot check for me and also check the > radio. Just a ballpark figure. > > Oh yea, I suspect I could ASK them? > > -- Ross > > > Adrian Carter wrote: > > > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > > > > At 10:08 AM 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Hi folks! I would like to know from the antenna specialists out there in the > > > >crowd how to set up a VHF antenna which will connect to my King KX-99 handheld > > > >radio in a KR. > > > > > > Ed if someone response to you personally please share it! I also would like > > > to know the answers to your questions! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Micheal Mims > > > Just Plane Nutts > > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > > > > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > > > Mike, Ed & Ross, > > > > Maybe this will give you some ideas. This is how I mounted my antenna > > in my KR. Used RG58U, removed the outer insulation and removed the > > center conductor from shielding by threading it through at about the > > 24" inch mark. Used formulae 234/fMHz which is about 1.97'. > > The center conductor with the dialectric on, I glassed it into my > > verticle fin. The braid I attached to approximately 2'x2' piece of > > tin foil, glued to the inside of the turtle deck right at the base of > > the fin. On my SWR check with the needle in full forward power, it > > barely moved the needle in reverse power. So I knew I had a good match > > You can use any random length of transmission line to your instrument > > panel. Mine was one continouse piece with no splices or RF bumps. My > > handheld was an STS 5watts (no longer manufactured in Florida). I had > > very good luck with my com and worked ground stations 90 miles away. > > The max radiation pattern would be over the base groundplain which was > > toward the nose. Just could not see myself buying a manufactured antenna > > since they are so simple to make, it's not the antenna but how you > > install it and prove out the antenna. Don't be satisfied with anything > > but a flat line or very low SWR play with it until you get it down. > > Theory is one thing but real life is another. > > The little short 3" transponder antenna that Ross mentioned is the > > very same as the one that I had. At about 2' behind the back of the > > seat I epoxied a 12"x12"x1/4" plywood to the longeron and glued tin > > foil to the top of it before the antenna was mounted in the vertical > > position. I never had any signal problems with this arrangement. > > Used an encoding AT150 for my transponder. > > I used an 8AH sealed motorcyle battery for my 12 volt supply and > > always turned off my transponder when I got out of the control zone. > > Hope some of this helps - Good Luck! > > -- > > Adrian VE6AFY > > cartera@cuug.ab.ca > > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera Hi Ross, Fortunately, my buddies at Mobile Oil had the pitot/static checker and I did this myself and a friend who is also a ham in avionics and checked my encoding transponder with about a 36 foot error, which is close enough for VFR. Used to to an annual and signed it out myself. Prices now days are so much higher then they were then so it's difficult to even estimate and the difference in country costs. For an electro tech around here is about $60.00/hr. Base plate or radials on and antenna are usually the same length as the radiator. Not any less in length, but look the best ground plane is an antenna on top of the cab/roof of a vehicle. No big secret here just keep the SWR as low as you can get it. Have a 5/8 whip on my truck and another on the roof, both are absolutley flat transmission lines. Can sit in my living room and talk to someone on the east coast with only 5 watts, mind you that is through the Anik E2 satillite. If you know and avionics tech or someone that works with VHF/UHF, a Bird SWR/PWR meter is what you want for comm. But for the txpdr, you need a special box that can pressurize and read the altitudes electronically. Look around for ham/pilots, sure they can stear you on to someone in the know. Good Luck! - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:17:01 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: wacko email Ed Janssen wrote: > > At 07:00 AM 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Is it just my email or is everyone elses wacko too? A lot of the posts I am > >sending to krnet are not showing up and I am getting double, double posts > >from some users. I have only received about 10 post in the last five days, > >Whats up? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > > > > Mike, > > I have have the the same same problem problem. We just downloaded the new > Microsoft Internet Explorer. Could it be the culprit? > > Ed J. Hi Ed, This will do it with the IE. The IE has to open channels, if your machine is on all the time it will interrogate the push sites and before you know it your out of disk space. These channels can be turned off or added to but, I don't know how because I hate the IE and use Netscape 3.01, don't even like the Netscape 4.02. We all got out little quirks. Good luck! :-)) - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:31:31 CDT From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: KR: Smith Chem tear sheet material G'Day Sorry to take up space here, But Have tried since Tue. to fax Smith Chem tear sheets to bbland. Can't get through. Did I copy FAX number incorrectly?? Have used 918-343-9794 Rex Ellington Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:52:23 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Foam and stuff Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:22 PM 10/15/97 -0700, John Bouyea wrote: > >Hey wait a minute! I resemble that remark! > > > >I just got my fuselage off the table for the first time this past weekend; > >I'm quit excited to HAVE a boat! It is very satisfying having a three > >dimensional structure, right Mr. Marvin? > > > > Keep building big guy, the feeling just gets better and better! No doubt I > will shed a tear when I roll it out into the sun after its final paint job! > This is one big up hill battle but I AM winning! :o) > > By the way since the Subject area is correct, I finished glassing the upper > skin on the left stub tonight, another neat feeling seeing a wing with > fiberglass on it! WOO HOO!!! Has anyone used a hand power plainer? Dan > Diehl recommends them and I was wondering if there are less expensive ones > that will still do the job? Are they easy to use? How much should I pay? > The reason I am asking is I plained the left spars by hand and I decided I I bought a Black & Decker power plainer specificly for finishing up the outer wing spars. This was about 5 years ago, I got a nice one for about $70-80 I think, I bought a dust collector and a fence to get a good 90deg angle (I think It's called a fence, perhaps a guide?) At any rate it was about a $12 dollar accessory. Good Luck! -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:02:28 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Web Site Update Mike, Terrific job with the website. I think your website was the inspiration that caused me to shell out $$$ for my own ISP account at teleport, and now... geez I'm in print on KRNET! -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > Sorry no pictures but I promise to have something up this weekend! I did > add a scrolling message to the home page that I will update every week or > so. Thanks to Adrian Carter, I hacked his web site to make the Java work! :o) > > Anyway if you have a Java enabled browser check out the messages if your bored! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:05:47 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wacko email Adrian Carter wrote: > These channels can be turned off or > added to but, I don't know how because I hate the IE and use Netscape > 3.01, don't even like the Netscape 4.02. We all got out little quirks. > Good luck! :-)) > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera I layed out $70+ for Netscape 4.0.2 and I'm hating it. Too many dialog boxes and much slower than 3.x. Plus the moved all my favorite buttons. I was going to email them and complain, but it was too diffiult, as 4.0.2 kept locking up my screen. I've fixed the screen lock problem, but I'm still P.O.'ed with Netscape for ruining a great product. And making me pay for it too... -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:22:39 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Do you feel old? If not, consider this: The people who are starting college this fall across the nation were born in 1980. * The Iranian hostage crisis occurred before they were conceived. * They have no memory of a time before M-TV. * The Pretenders, the Kinks, and the Sex Pistols are all old music they have heard of, if they have heard of it at all. * They have no meaningful recollection of the Reagan era. * They were prepubescent when the Persian Gulf War was waged. * Black Monday 1987 is as significant to them as the Great Depression. * Their world has always included AIDS. * They watched "Star Wars" years ago, when they were kids -- on video. * Atari predates them, as do vinyl albums and cassette audiotapes; they may have heard of an 8-track, but probably never actually seen (or heard) one. * From their earliest years, a camera was something you used once and threw away. * As far as they know, stamps have always cost about 32 cents. * Few, if any, have lived without an answering machine. * Few have used a TV set with only 13 channels. * They were born the year that Walkmen were introduced by Sony. * The expression "you sound like a broken record" means nothing to them. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #130 *****************************