From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:07 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n139' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #139 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Wednesday, October 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 139 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 00:50:37 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: "Speed with Economy" On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:17:40 -0700, you wrote: >At 05:16 AM 10/21/97 PDT, you wrote: >>Is this the book about Arnold's AR-5? How much was the book? =20 > >NO its about making a Busby Mustang 64 mph faster over a 20 year period. >(with the same powerplant) I don't have the info on the book at hand = but >maybe someone else does. > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >=20 >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > Available from: Paser Publications 5672 W. Chestnut Ave Littleton, CO 80128 303/904-3417 $24.95 + $3.50 S&H Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:54:17 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Re: http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm I checked out the fuselage photos on your website, good photos... brought back memories! -- Ross Brian Bland wrote: > > For any one interested the article in now on my web page: > > http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > bbland@busprod.com > http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:55:01 -0500 From: cwcrane@why.net (CW Crane) Subject: Re: KR: "Speed with Economy" On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:17:40 -0700, you wrote: >NO its about making a Busby Mustang 64 mph faster over a 20 year period. >(with the same powerplant) I don't have the info on the book at hand but >maybe someone else does. > >Micheal Mims There was an article in Sport Aviation, January 1977 by Kent M. Paser about the process. Mustang Aeronautics sells the book for $24.95 + $3.50 handling. Their address is 1470 Temple City, Troy, MI 48084 or call them at (810) 589-9277. At one time I was interested in the Mustang II and this information was in the info pack they sent. I still think it looks better than an RV-6 from Van. CW Crane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:26:37 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: New Plans? Hey Brian, Just how wide and long did you make this super guppy, ahhh! I mean KR on steroids. Dave Moore >Hey! I think I resemble that remark!! > > >Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P >Claremore, OK >Building stretched and widened KR-2S > >bbland@busprod.com >http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:22:20 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: "Speed with Economy" In a message dated 97-10-21 12:19:27 EDT, Mike wrote: << NO its about making a Busby Mustang 64 mph faster over a 20 year period. (with the same powerplant) I don't have the info on the book at hand but maybe someone else does. >> Look at the classified section of Kitplanes or Sport Aviation. I don't think Mike Arnold has anything in book form on the AR5, but his tapes are good. Also go to his website for the excellent collection of articles about the AR5. They should be required reading for all KR builders Reverend Randy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:22:27 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: New Plans? In a message dated 97-10-21 13:33:39 EDT, you write: << does that mean RR is not going to revise? >> It took RR over a year after they were first pestered before they considered revisions, and I suspect it will be another year or two before they get serious enough to see it through (and then it will take a year of work). I doubt Mark will be able to wait around that long. He is a hands on sort of dude (and a good one too). So it you want to build, buy the dang plans, stay on KRNet to get the latest and greatest help and you'll be fine. Thousand have done it and most of them didn't have the benefit of KRNet! We have an incredible group of builders and flyers who are more than willing to help anyone who asks. Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:23:15 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Rotary engines In a message dated 97-10-21 12:16:28 EDT, Joh & Ross wrote: << Can anyone else help? -- Ross TANDEM2@aol.com wrote: > > ross, do you know if duncan aviation engines is still around or who is doing > the mazda engines now? > thanks > tandem2@aol.com > john >> I recall something about them being in Mexico, but I may be confoosed. Talk to the guys at Ross Reductions in AZ. They should know who the hot Rotary people are right now. Anyone else recall better than this? Randy (failing memory) Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:23:59 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR-2S meet Jabiru In a message dated 97-10-21 14:04:44 EDT, you write: << Just got off the phone with Jeanette (sp?) and she said that a Jabiru has been ordered for a KR-2S that is under construction and that Jabiru is interrested in doing a firewall forward package for the KR. I don't know if my budget can be stretched enough to cover a Jabiru but it would sure make a nice combination. Full 80 HP and less weight than the VW. >> This proves my point. I faxed the Jabiru info to RR 20 months ago, and they had no interest at that time. Imagine the change of heart. Kind of slow, just like the plans. I think Darwin had another name for it... Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:49:34 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: more dimensioning drivel... Brian Bland wrote: > Hey! I think I resemble that remark!! I guess that makes you one of the hapless souls... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Brian Bland > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: New Plans? > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 6:35 PM > > On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:55:17 -0700, you wrote: > > >What do you "meeeeaaaan", one bay to short???? > >> > >>Dave Moore > >> > > > >David Moore > >Turnkey1@MSComm.Com > >Hesperia, Calif. > > Hey! I think I resemble that remark!! > > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > bbland@busprod.com > http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:43:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat Ed Newbold wrote: > Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a shot as soon as I can get my hands on some of > it. I'm ordering it now. Good luck. I'm waiting for some that I ordered from AS&S 3 weeks ago. They told me it was in stock and would be shipped "today". Two weeks later I called to find out where the h___ it was and they said "gee, I don't show any in stock, or when it might be due, would you like to cancel the order? That doesn't help me finish my two wing tanks that are 95% done, but it IS what I'd expect from AS&S. I'm not going to be real happy if I have to use another type of vinylester to glue the tops on my tanks and seal all of the lines in place. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:14:57 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: New Plans? On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:26:37 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Brian, >Just how wide and long did you make this super guppy,=20 >ahhh! I mean KR on steroids.=20 > >Dave Moore > Hey Dave, It's not a supper guppy! It's a Great White!! I made it 10" longer and about 7" wider than the stock(?) KR-2S. You can see pics of it on my web page. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:34:35 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: New Plans? On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:12:48 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: >Steve Eberhart wrote: > >> Just got off the phone with Jeanette and she said that it wasn't a high >> priority. The person working on the new plans is covered up with other >> work and can't put very much time into them. I got the impression that >> this wasn't a high priority. AS has been mentioned before, she is very >> reluctant to approve any changes to the design that haven't been flight >> proven yet. > > >Besides, as has been mentioned, this is low priority, since "major" changes >are not viewed in a favorable light. Don't count on the NLF wings ever >being incorporated either, since she just paid for tooling for the RAF 48 >wing skins. Of course, I've long since resigned myself to merely sprucing >the plans up...making them all the same font, getting the nomenclature >right (calling the main spar the same thing everywhere, rather than main >spar, forward spar, and front spar), and dimensioning things in a much less >confusing manner. And what I'm talking about here would take maybe 2 hours >per drawing, and I'd gladly do it for nothing just to keep another hapless >soul from making their fuselage one bay too short because they couldn't >interpret the architectural dimensioning scheme that's used in the current >plans... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >email at langford@hiwaay.net Jeanette makes it very clear that she would prefer that all KRs be built just like Ken's little retractable. She doesn't like progress because it dates her plans and comes a step closer to forcing her to update them. Just build a -2S or make any improvements over what is called for in the plans and see how she looks down her nose at you. It seemed rather obvious to me at the gathering that she disapproved of mine. I wouldn't hold my breath and wait for new plans. You'll only turn blue and still have nothing. :o) Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:36:46 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: Chat/KRNet My guess is they don't sleep. Probably how they keep spouses happy at the same time. What's the trick guys? - -Peter Hudson- Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Hey, Micheal- > > How DO you and Ross manage to get anything done? You both seem to be > going great guns on your KRs, posting progress reports and tips to > KRNet, plus doing other stuff online. I presume that there are also > work-related things, chores, family, possibly eating and bathing...? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:41:07 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: colored plexi/acrylic The other trick is one from my modeling experience. Yeah I still squeak out the occasional RC plane. Try using extremely concentrated clothing dye on clear plastic parts. This is how I tint canopys. Let em soak overnight. Well it's worth a try. - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:27:00 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Rotary engines There was a RV-3 at Copperstate with a Mazda rotary mounted on it and the owner making a pitch for selling his book about using rotaries. I didn't pick up his stuff and don't recall his name, but it seems to me that he was also featured in Sport Aviation a couple of years ago. If nobody can come up with his name, I can probably call a friend that's hot to use a rotary in his RV and get the name of the book and author. FWIW, they were also running the Dynacam engine, a Corvair engine and a 90 hp APU gas turbine with a reduction that looked like Mike Latigo's setup on trailers at Copperstate.. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:23:15 -0400 (EDT) BSHADR@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 97-10-21 12:16:28 EDT, Joh & Ross wrote: > ><< Can anyone else help? > > -- Ross > TANDEM2@aol.com wrote: > > > > ross, do you know if duncan aviation engines is still around or >who is >doing > > the mazda engines now? > > thanks > > tandem2@aol.com > > john >> > >I recall something about them being in Mexico, but I may be confoosed. > Talk >to the guys at Ross Reductions in AZ. They should know who the hot >Rotary >people are right now. Anyone else recall better than this? > >Randy (failing memory) Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:49:37 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Chat/KRNet At 08:36 PM 10/21/97 -0700, Peter Hudson wrote: >My guess is they don't sleep. Probably how they keep spouses happy at >the same time. > >What's the trick guys? > >-Peter Hudson- Uh... I have a twin brother?! :o) I don't have trouble scheduling at least one hour a night to play sometimes 2. My wife works very early hours and hits the rack around 8:30 so afterwards what's a airplane geek to do? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:16:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Trim System For those of you interested in the spring trim system I uploaded two drawings to the "Ideas" page. You can get there by going to: http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/ideas.html and scrolling down to the bottom and clicking on the links. Check it out and send your thoughts! The pulleys are cheep ($3 each) 1.5 inch nylon units with SS bushings and I made the handle from 2024 t3 X .125 . The two friction washers are old cutoff wheels from the Dremel tool, the spring is from my tool box (spare junk). I am using 1/16 cables and trim springs from AS&S. I had thought of using Nylaflow tubing to route the cables but decided the pulley arraignment would be much more secure, after all we don't want one of these units pulling lose do we Randy? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:57:19 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: KR vs. Ultrapup >Hmmm, and the name of their company test pilot is...? Just kidding, I >know the answer. > >Chalk up one more in Preceptor's column. At least they have a flying >demonstrator. The choice between the KR and the Ultrapup is not so strange -- I've considered it too [which, doesn't NECESSARILY mean it's not strange, of course, but you know. . .] All the VW-engine planes have to work within the same parameters of engine power and weight, and each puts something at the top of the list. The Ultrapup is the best of the Cub copies, with the ability to do anything -- STOL, rough field, floats, etc., and gives better performance than a Cub with excellent flying manners and maybe a 90-100 mph cruise. (also you could make a clipped-wing Ultrapup the same way they made clipped-wing Cubs [and nowadays Avids] to bias it more toward cruise than STOL). The KR, by contrast, gets more than 50% higher cruise out of that same 60 hp by sacrificing roominess, floatplane use, rough-field characteristics and stability. As Ron Wanttaja says in Kitplane Construction, it depends on your mission. I want a plane to go places far away, and the KR is probably the fastest I can get from the VW. If I wanted to spend time bush piloting or lake-hopping in upstate NY, I'd want the Ultrapup, but it sure wouldn't get me to Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire or Idaho very fast, which is where most of my out-of-state family and friends live. Difficulties such as welding, etc., could be avoided since you can buy the Ultrapup frame prewelded. Issues such as plans availability, factory support, etc., have come about because Preceptor is a competently run company and Rand-Robinson, to a large extent, is not. That isn't really the fault of the design, but of history. I'm sure you won't see much innovation in Tailwinds either, now that its designer was killed in one, but at least he got the thing completely sorted out before he died. Unfortunately, Ken Rand hadn't. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 05:43:05 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Throttle Linkage Question Ross Youngblood wrote: > > HELP! Again. > > THROTTLE LINKAG EMOUNT QUESTION > In all the photos of KR engines I've seen, it has been VERY difficult > to get a good look at the throttle & mixture linkages. > > So here I am, wanting to start my engine up, and I'm trying to avoid > a Rube Goldberg mouse-trap, toothpaste throttle linkage. > > I bought some very nice ACS push-pull controls, the black and red > knobs look really pretty in the cockpit, but I need some hints on > what to do with the other end. (Besides that!) > > I would appricate it if folks who have SOLVED this problem could > dig up some photos/drawings, this is one of those tricky areas that > I think needs to be done right. > > Also.... I have the Great Plains downtubes with my Ellison, and > believe that SOME form of mechanical attachment to the engine is > necessary besides the hose & C-clamps. Has anyone got ideas here? > > I'm stumped. (At least for the moment.) > > -- Ross > -- > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > 1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com Ross, What engine are you using? Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:06:33 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: new?, better? T4 vw conversion. In a message dated 97-10-21 08:10:33 EDT, Ed wrote: << Steve Wittman (if the same one I knew) is deceased. Could be working, tho, in that great EAA chapter in the sky. >> My error, it was late last night and I meant to say "style." Sorry. I guess it is true, "a closed mouth gathers fewer feet." Randy (hoof in mouth) Stein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 04:59:37 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: dead horse alert-New Plans-new wings >From: TANDEM2 >Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:33:37 EDT >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: New Plans? >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >ya, go for the kr. what is up on the new plans, are we waiting for mark to fly >and see if the new wings are going to work? how about it mark, what is going >on, i am just waiting to see. >thanks >tandem2, in the holding pattern > 'Scuse me, but what are "the new wings"?? Oscar "dumb and dumber" Zuniga ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 05:08:29 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Rotary Mazda engines >Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:10:52 -0700 >From: Ross Youngblood >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: http://www.krnet.org >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Sorry, > >Can anyone else help? > >-- Ross >TANDEM2@aol.com wrote: >> >> ross, do you know if duncan aviation engines is still around or who is doing >> the mazda engines now? >> thanks >> tandem2@aol.com >> john > John; I got some information from Ross Aero on redrives, and they started their enterprise on the Mazda rotary engine conversion. Presumably, that is still something that they do. Drop me a personal e-mail if you want any info that I have on this (anybody). Oscar Zuniga ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 05:18:47 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: "Sayings" >From: "jeb" >To: >Subject: KR: Stuff >Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:39:16 -0600 >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Here are some aviation sayings, thought ya'll might like 'em >obtained at: http://www.skygod.com/quotes/quotes.html > snip,snip >Never fly anything that doesn't have the paint worn off the rudder Pedals. >-- Harry Bill > YES! Now this guy was undoubtedly a taildragger pilot! - -Oscar Zuniga ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 05:30:10 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Re: KR: Canopy Latch Question >Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:28:36 -0700 >From: Ross Youngblood >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: Canopy Latch Question >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com >I'm looking for ideas, perhaps someone has solved this one nicely. > >-- Regards > Ross > > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x >1632 Hey, Ross- A guy could get the wrong idea here. Your signature sez you're a "Staff Technical Specialist". And you're asking for ideas? Are these KRs hard to build, or what? Sorry. Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:18:08 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: Global QCS Propeller I didn't pay much attention to the photo in the October Sport Aviation until I read this on r.a.h yesterday. Very interesting stuff, especially when you get to the part about the 4700rpm prop for direct drive applications. Imagine a direct drive turbo soob turning that speed... Sorry, it's kind of windy, but worth reading: > In this month's "Sport Aviation", in the photo section reviewing some > of the aircraft and displays from this years Oshkosh fly-in, was a > photo of a scimitar shaped prop on the nose of a wingless fuselage. I > was intrigued by the color and shape of the blades. They were bright > yellow and had a PRONOUNCED scimitar shape. I knew from past readings > that scimitar shaped props were designed that way to allow them to flex > in flight and assume some of the characteristics of constant speed > blades; they are deliberately pitched to a cruise (coarse) type pitch > and flatten out at slow speeds to allow the engine to spin up and > develop more power. At higher speeds and reduced throttle, they unbend > back to the coarse pitch. Or at least that's the idea. This is not a > new concept, it was first used in World War I. In those days, the > shape of the blade and the type of wood they used was mostly guesswork. > One of the scimitar shapes I've seen (EAA's Experimenter a month ago) > actually had a swept forward shape. Bob Whittier, the author of the > very informative article did not think the forward swept prop was very > successfull. > > The blurb on this new prop claimed that it was computer designed to > predictably flatten out at slow speed/high power situations and then > unbend to a coarse pitch at higher speeds for good cruise by the use of > computer design and modern composites and resins. I was intrigued, I > called the number and talked with QCS. I spoke for about half an hour > with an individual (sorry, I didn't write his name down and I'm not > sure so I'd rather not guess) who said his expertise was in tooling > design. He told me that Sport Aviation had erred slightly with the > description in the photo, they called the prop a single piece type, it > isn't; the blades clamp to a steel hub. While the initial setting is > adjustable, customers do not get to change the pitch themselves. > Estimates are made as to what the initial pitch should be and the prop > is sent with two pairs of indexed clamps for the hub that, when clamped > around the prop bases, will give the prop the correct pitch. If, in > testing, it turns out that the prop needs to be repitched, one each of > the two sets of clamps are sent back and they are re-indexed by Global > QCS and returned to you. You re-clamp the prop and it now assumes the > new pitch. Other than that, there is no owner adjustment possible. > > The rep talked about how they manufacture the blades so that there are > absolutely positively no voids in the composite blanks. The blades are > made of a composite of materials all predicted by computer design to > flex from 6¡ to 8¡ during flight. In other words, no guesswork. It > took them 18 months to model the first prop, and 9 months to complete > the second one. Engineers were hired from all over the space, aviation > industry and prop industry to put their collective minds behind this > project. Global successfully competed with other companies for NASA > SPIR funding with which to hire the many engineers who are working on > the research. If I'm remembering the conversation correctly the > president of Global, Michael Smith, had been wanting to pull together > all the various techniques and concepts of a fixed pitch constant speed > and combine them with state of the art composites and resins to create > this prop. > > One thing he stressed over and over was that the airfoils were exactly > the same, one after the other. They come out of the molds that way. > He mentioned that they got a certified fixed pitch prop in their shop > for analysis and comparison and were surprised to find that the blades > were not the same one side to the other. "One side had a flat spot on > the airfoil not duplicated by the other blade" he said. QCS has > achieved precision repeatability, each blade is an exact duplicate of > all the others. I was told the blades are so light they were > considering adding some mass to them so that engines won't run rough at > slow speeds without the flywheel effect of a heavy prop to carry them > around in between power pulses. > > The blades are molded to steel shanks and are currently being run on > the test stand at 135% rpm. > > Yet another feature of the blades is that they incorporate modern > airfoils not used in props previously. Many certified props simply > have a flat back to them, possibly because of the difficulty of > manufacturing intricate shapes in metal. I've read elsewhere that > often the ubiquitous Clark-Y airfoil is what many props use. At QCS > the computer modeling suggested a turned down rear edge near the hub, a > "cusp" it was called which causes the top and bottom airflow off the > trailing edge to be more parallel which reduces turbulence. > > Finally, I asked him if he minded if I posted this information to the > news group. He said he didn't mind but asked that I wait until he > could send me their information sheet so that I didn't get any of what > he was telling me wrong. So I waited and it arrived yesterday. You > see it complete below: > > ***Begin quote*** > Global QCS Composite Propeller > > "Global Aircraft Corporation has designed, fabricated and is currently > testing a flexible, quasi-constant speed, composite propeller for use > on General Aviation and Experimental aircraft. Initial production is > scheduled for January 1998 and FAA certification is anticipated by mid > 1998. > > The Global QCS Propeller Team has developed a unique propeller design > methodology that defines the geometric shape of the propeller blade. > Developed through cooperative research and development contracts with > NASA, the Global Quasi-Constant Speed (QCS) Propeller is the first > major improvement in fixed-pitch propellers for General Aviation > aircraft since the 1930's. Utilizing the integration of aerodynamics, > non-linear structural analysis, state-of-the-art aero-elastic analysis > and advanced composite manufacturing capability, the propeller design > process uses sound analytical approaches and Computational Fluid > Dynamic (CFD) simulation coupled with full-scale test verification. > > The QCS Propeller is fabricated with advanced composite materials and > resin transfer molding processes in precision closed-cavity molds. The > revolutionary innovations of the Global QCS Propeller are its ability > to flex (change pitch) predictably under operating loads, performing > similarly to variable pitch propellers, and reduced noise levels > achieved through modern propeller acoustic design. Increased > performance and efficiency over fixed pitch propellers include 35% > reduction in take-off distance, 40% increase in rate-of-climb, and 10% > increase in cruise speed. The QCS Propeller retains the advantages of > a fixed pitch propeller, specifically, low cost, low weight, low > maintenance, and simple operation with no requirement for engine > pitch/speed control. No other fixed-pitch propeller demonstrates > comparable characteristics. > > The Global QCS Propeller is currently being developed for 160 to 210 > horsepower engines. Production of propellers for experimental > airplanes is scheduled for early 1998. Production of FAA certified > propellers for certified airplanes is scheduled for mid 1998. QCS > Propellers for special applications can be developed under special > agreement." *** end of quote*** > > Will this be what it appears it can be? Will this prop revolutionize > the propeller industry? I don't know but we will soon find out as the > first version for experimental aircraft is due to fly shortly. > > And the cost? They really haven't gotten into production yet but were > forced to toss out some ballpark figures. They felt that $3500 for the > 160 hp engine and $4500 for the 210 hp engine was a good starting > point. > > My personal feeling, and I'm going out on a limb here, is that this is > a truly significant advancement in aviation. If it actually manages > the performance figures the computer modeling predicts, they will be > HUGELY successful. Imagine constant speed prop performance with a > lightweight fixed pitch prop. And while $3500 is not cheap, it's a > bunch less than a constant speed. > > Actually, it doesn't end there. QCS is also computer modeling cowlings > for aircraft. He said that little work has been done on cowlings and > noise abatement and cooling design recently. Some cowlings act as a > drum, picking up the beat of the prop and amplifying it. This is > something that a properly designed and constructed cowling could > minimize. So my worry about a needing a slow turning prop to keep it > quiet may be over. If this prop can be quiet at 2500 to 2700 rpms > because of its accoustical design then little, if any sacrifice need be > made to performance. And that's STILL not all. They are working on a > prop for a direct drive engine, something that will be turning 4700 > rpms on the formula one circuit. Owners of direct drive engines might > want to pay attention to this research. > > Sure hope the testing verifies the computer model. > > Corky Scott > > PS, I was also warned that at least one manufacturer of composite props > appeared unable to make them without voids in the blades. He was of > the opinion that this is a dangerous practice. - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net The GMC Motorhome Page http://www.gmcmotorhome.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:21:38 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: dead horse alert-New Plans-new wings Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > 'Scuse me, but what are "the new wings"?? > > Oscar "dumb and dumber" Zuniga Time for more reading Oscar. Go to: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html It should keep you busy for quite a while :o) Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:24:03 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: KR2 for sale This popped up on r.a.h this morning: > For Sale KR2 N76KB 175 Hours TT. Hapi 1835 Slick Mag. Elt, some instru. > Deihl gear conversion. Needs work, wing and canopy damage. Built in 1978. > $3000 OBO contact: Harold Shoemaker via E-Mail or 319-396-3651. - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 06:03:59 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Buying partially-built project To the person who was asking about buying a project- if you haven't already done so, it would be well worth your time to read Jeff Scott's article on that topic in one of the back-issues of KROnline (was it Sept. or Oct. '96?) It may not be exactly comparable to the project you're looking at (and you SHOULD actually LOOK at it!), but at least it will put you into the mindset of what to look for. If you have trouble finding back issues of KROnline, jump onto Mike Mims' page or one of the other KR builder pages. (After a couple of hours of browsing, don't forget to print out the article you came there for in the first place!) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 06:09:43 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: One bay too short Follow-up on the discussion about updating plans; I didn't want to call it "dead horse". This is one of the great things about KRNet- in cyber-talking with Mark Lougheed, he casually mentions the little matter of plans dimensioning and how a person can easily "miss" a bay in their frame. Also the problem of "banana boat", as so clearly discussed in his article in KROnline. These two factors alone would make plans update worth RR's effort, but sounds like it's not likely to happen. Now, ask yourself: how much do Mark's templates cost, and how much is your time worth per hour of lost effort? Sounds like a deal to me. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 06:19:43 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: More reading >Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:21:38 -0400 >From: Patrick Flowers >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: dead horse alert-New Plans-new wings >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Oscar Zuniga wrote: >> >> 'Scuse me, but what are "the new wings"?? >> >> Oscar "dumb and dumber" Zuniga > >Time for more reading Oscar. Go to: > > http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html > >It should keep you busy for quite a while :o) > >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > HEY! NO FAIR! Randy's been coaching you, right? You guys are piling on now. Leave me alone with my books and stuff, OK? Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:28:39 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Future public flogging In a message dated 97-10-21 08:39:07 EDT, Robert wrote (while helping Oscar): << Be assured that Randy has his kids do his reading for him. This frees him up to learn how himself. :) >> Hey you jokers, the five hardest years of my life were first grade. Of course you two know I'm going to be waiting for the next public floggin' and draft both of you as the "flog-test dummies" as a reward for sharing my family secrets! Say Oacar, I'm impressed you can find so much info on the back of a pack of TP. My Charmin pack has little useable airplane info. What brand of TP are you reading? Maybe a little fiber in your diet is in order? It would speed up your life (less library time) and give you more building time. Heck we could even sell KRBran - keeps you and your project moving..nah Randy (in waiting) Stein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:23:40 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) Mark Langford wrote: > > TANDEM2 wrote: > > >i guess i should just get a set of plans and do what i need to do > > That'd be my advice. Okay, so the consensus is that support and assistance from RR is nearly nil and the new plans are Jeanette's equivalent of vaporware. Just buy the plans and depend on KRnet and other builders. None of this is news, but bears repeating for the sake of the following question. If I build a KR, I will likely follow Mark's lead with a longer fuselage and the NLF airfoil(except I like the idea of hotwiring sytro cores). Based on this, is it worth $75 to get the 2S supplement? What's to be gained? Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Chat/KRNet In a message dated 97-10-22 09:15:54 EDT, you write: << My guess is they don't sleep. Probably how they keep spouses happy at the same time. What's the trick guys? >> They could tell you...but they then would have to kill you...it is best not to ask. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:29:53 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Commode talk In a message dated 97-10-22 09:23:57 EDT, Oscar wrote: << HEY! NO FAIR! Randy's been coaching you, right? You guys are piling on now. Leave me alone with my books and stuff, OK? >> Hold on Buster. We haven't even started to work you over yet...stop that sniveling. You know what they say about paybacks. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:34:34 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) i was wondering about this too, mark said there is nothing in the plans about the width , sooooooo, is the kr2s plans worth the money? if so, fine, if not speak up someone. thanks tandem2 in holding ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 09:40:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) At 12:23 PM 10/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >If I build a KR, I will likely follow Mark's lead with a longer fuselage >and the NLF airfoil(except I like the idea of hotwiring sytro cores). >Based on this, is it worth $75 to get the 2S supplement? What's to be >gained? > >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > Yes,.. as much as I would like to tell you to blow off the KR2S supp. I cant , You should buy them. Actually skip the manual and just buy the S supp! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #139 *****************************