From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:40 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n141' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #141 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Wednesday, October 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 141 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:04:40 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Rotary engines In a message dated 97-10-22 23:37:21 EDT, you write: << The only option a KR pilot has is possibly a 1/2 Mazda conversion. The rotary makes sense and can't fail catistrophically like a recip. engine can and they last FOREVER. Tracey put new seals in his and not much else and he thinks a 2000 hr. T.B.O. will be low!! >> I would be very interested in that but I understand they are as fuel hungry as the certified aircraft engines, therefore my decision to go with the Subaru. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:13:42 -0400 From: "Scott Goodman" Subject: Re: KR: Trim System This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BCDF48.84F1A6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I started thinking about springs and cables after reading this post... I modeled these pics to demonstrate the use of a compression spring under positive tension. I've got a lot of spare time. Regards, Scott Goodman - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com; krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Trim System > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 10:29 PM > > At 06:38 PM 10/22/97 -0600, Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > >Mike, > > > >Have you looked at the trim system in a Glassair? It is simple and > >produces the same sort of trim control you are looking at except that the > >springs are in compression. > > For some reason "using a spring in compression" and "simple" don't seem to > go together in my mind. Maybe someone should draw a picture! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims - ------=_NextPart_000_01BCDF48.84F1A6C0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="spring1.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: spring1 (JPG File) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="spring1.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAB4UFhoWEx4aGBohHx4jLEowLCkpLFtBRDZKa15xb2le aGZ2haqQdn6hgGZolMqWobC1v8C/c47R4M+53qq7v7f/2wBDAR8hISwnLFcwMFe3emh6t7e3t7e3 t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7e3t7f/wAARCADwAUADASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAGgAAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEDBAUCBv/EAD8QAAIBAwEDCAgEBAYDAQAAAAAB AgMEESEFEjEVMkFRU2FxkRMUIlKBkqLhM0JjoSNigtE0Q1RyscEGRPGT/8QAGAEBAQEBAQAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAECAwT/xAAjEQEAAgEEAwEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIREhMxUSFBYQMUIkJx/9oADAMBAAIR AxEAPwDc3njVDUsnUl7JCm1xRUSnFR6DTyKprHBRBIQSTQjSAAAAGLIZApbYp+ksZPpg1IxqD0R6 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MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Rotary Mazda engines >There is a 3 page article in the January '96 Issue of KitPlanes Magazine >about Mazda Rotaries. Mostly about David Atkins' Rotary engines, but lots >of information. >I believe they manufacture rotary enignes and possibly parts for a >home-conversion. There was a series of articles in Kitplane by a guy who converted one himself for his RV. But are you planning on using one of these on a KR? I thought they were for much bigger planes. . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:37:49 -0600 From: "Jeb" Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) Way to go Robert, we be chatting with IQC me and Brian B and MM (Spike) I can spell good, C A T - "dog" > PS I'll pay you $10 or do you a new shirt if you change the DragonFly > picture wording at the bottom of your WWW page from "I'm not prejudice!" to > "prejudiced!" Been a year now! :) > > Robert Covington > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:32:48 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Construction Manual I'm tired of the belly aching. I'm going to write an unauthorized construction manual to share how I built my airplane. I'm not going to ask for Jeanette's approval. I'm not going to criticize the current plans or manual. I see a need, and I'm going to fill it. Expect the first draft sometime in early 1999, after my plane has been fully tested and deficiencies are corrected. As for the mean time, either stop bitching and use the considerable resources available here to build the best airplane you can, or go build something else. 'Nuf said. Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:30:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) At 10:37 PM 10/22/97 -0600, Jeb wrote: >Way to go Robert, we be chatting with IQC me >and Brian B and MM (Spike) >I can spell good, C A T - "dog" >> PS I'll pay you $10 or do you a new shirt if you change the DragonFly >> picture wording at the bottom of your WWW page from "I'm not prejudice!" >to >> "prejudiced!" Been a year now! :) >> >> Robert Covington >> Butt,..........once again! What if I am not prejudice but I am prejudiced?! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:36:18 -0400 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Trim System At 07:29 PM 10/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:38 PM 10/22/97 -0600, Jeffrey E Scott wrote: >>Mike, >> >>Have you looked at the trim system in a Glassair? =A0It is simple and >>produces the same sort of trim control you are looking at except that the >>springs are in compression.=20 > >For some reason "using a spring in compression" and "simple" don't seem to >go together in my mind. Maybe someone should draw a picture! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike: =A0=A0 I just thought I would throw in my two cents worth on how I re-designed the control system for my "restoration" project. First off, I replaced the single stick with a dual stick arrangement. This left the centerline of the control system free to use a push pull tube( 1/2 " =A0=A0stainless =A0.065") that runs from the cross tube to a control horn behind the seat ( and rear spar). The brackets I fashioned for the horn replace the dual pulleys that the plans call for. From there the rest is cable operated. Now for trim and springs...on this push pull tube is a block of aluminum 1"X2"x2" with a 5/8"hole thru it (offset) . Parallel to the 5/8" hole is another hole which I pressed a flange nut into that has a 1/4" thread. Put a threaded rod thru the nut and connect the end to a small electric window motor and you have a way to move the 1"x2"x2" =A0block back and forth on the push pull tube.=20 Now all that remains to be added is 9/16" I.D. compression springs on the push pull tube on either side of the alum. block and you are done. This system allows me to have 1) dual control sticks =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2) no cable running back and forth on your thigh =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3) a self centering stick =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 4) electric trim (full elevator) =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A05) adjustable spring tension, by where I put the= clamps on the push pull tube. ( I eventually will drill and cotter pin the tube, but for now I don't know how much spring loading I want, so I'm leaving it adj. for now) I also added a boat trim gauge to the panel for trim indication. I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or is helpful , but if anyone has questions , feel free to ask. Regards: =A0=A0Dennis (in Toronto)=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:57:43 -0500 From: Mark Pierce Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat Just had to jump in here on experience with AS&S. Dummy that I am I've been burned by them twice. The last incident was about two years ago where I lost $260 and an artificial horizon gyro to AS&S. It's a long story but AS&S did not stand by their product, would not discuss resolution in three months of trying, and left me holding the bag without so much as a "sorry". I'll never order from them again and do not feel the least bit guilty in advising anyone else not to do so either. Their prices aren't really lower when you add up all the delays, bad or wrong merchandise, lost dollars, phone calls, etc. I recommend that you use a major Credit Card and dispute the charge if your not satisfied. They are a low class operation. - -- Mark Pierce markpi@oz.sunflower.org PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol KR2S (future ?) http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-10-22 08:09:47 EDT, you write: > > << That doesn't help me finish my two wing tanks that are 95% > done, but it IS what I'd expect from AS&S. I'm not going to be real happy > if I have to use another type of vinylester to glue the tops on my tanks > and seal all of the lines in place. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >> > > Does Wicks have it. I've not done much business with AS&S mainly due to > these type posts but have always gotten good support from Wicks. All my KR > stuff has come from them. > > Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:52:45 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Rotary engines just talked to david atkins of atkins aviation in puyallup, wa. he has one in his plane, he said that as you call it a 1/2 which is really a single port that it wouldn't last long because of the revs mostly in the 120hp models, but he said he could build me one at 120 hp in a duel port which would be a lot better, do not know what it would weight but i would guess around 225lbs. still sounds a bit to heavy but with the hp a kr2s might be able to handle it. yes that is a ?. does anyone know what is the max weight a kr2s can handle in a engine. this guy has been building thease engines for a long time, mostly in race cars. he is doing alot now in birds. will be going down to see him soon so will report on what i find out then. tandem2 in holding ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:53:09 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat At 10:57 PM 10/22/97 -0500, Mark Pierce wrote: >Just had to jump in here on experience with AS&S. >Dummy that I am I've been burned by them twice. The last incident was >about two years ago where I lost $260 and an artificial horizon gyro to >AS&S. It's a long story but AS&S did not stand by their product, would >not discuss resolution in three months of trying, and left me holding >the bag without so much as a "sorry". People! Lets stand together and send email to AS&S with these complaints! I did it to the Discovery channel and now Week Day Wings is Back on the air! Visit AS&S web site and tell them how it is and word is getting around that they,...........suck! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:08:22 -0600 From: "Jeb" Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat I've never had a problem with 'em, I ordered aluminum tubing, fittings and mixing cups/stir sticks and vinyl ester and boom, arrived here in 5 days. only one thing on back order and they told me up front. John Bryhan jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm Los Alamos, NM - ---------- > From: Mark Pierce > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Cc: Starks, Dick > Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 9:57 PM > > Just had to jump in here on experience with AS&S. > Dummy that I am I've been burned by them twice. The last incident was > about two years ago where I lost $260 and an artificial horizon gyro to > AS&S. It's a long story but AS&S did not stand by their product, would > not discuss resolution in three months of trying, and left me holding > the bag without so much as a "sorry". I'll never order from them again > and do not feel the least bit guilty in advising anyone else not to do > so either. Their prices aren't really lower when you add up all the > delays, bad or wrong merchandise, lost dollars, phone calls, etc. I > recommend that you use a major Credit Card and dispute the charge if > your not satisfied. They are a low class operation. > -- > Mark Pierce > markpi@oz.sunflower.org > PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC > Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol > KR2S (future ?) > http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ > > > JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 97-10-22 08:09:47 EDT, you write: > > > > << That doesn't help me finish my two wing tanks that are 95% > > done, but it IS what I'd expect from AS&S. I'm not going to be real happy > > if I have to use another type of vinylester to glue the tops on my tanks > > and seal all of the lines in place. > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >> > > > > Does Wicks have it. I've not done much business with AS&S mainly due to > > these type posts but have always gotten good support from Wicks. All my KR > > stuff has come from them. > > > > Jim Hayward > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Trim System >I started thinking about springs and cables after reading this post... I >modeled these pics to demonstrate the use of a compression spring under >positive tension. I've got a lot of spare time. >> >Have you looked at the trim system in a Glassair? It is simple and >> >produces the same sort of trim control you are looking at except that >the >> >springs are in compression. >> >> For some reason "using a spring in compression" and "simple" don't seem >to >> go together in my mind. Maybe someone should draw a picture! As usual, AOL 2.5 won't open this diagram and AOL 3.0 crashed when I tried, so I'll have to leave it up to my imagination. However, isn't "using a spring in compression" what most taildraggers with tailwheel springs do nowadays? The pull from the chains connect internally to the opposite ends through the middle of the spring, so when you pull on the chain, the spring compresses. Seems fairly simple. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) ok, fine, now you are really scareing me. is any of it worth it? about the Vision, yes you are right, he does have a nice layout and very easy to understand. you all have forgotten, the kr's are from the 70's and they don't want to change anything, i am surprise they even talk to any of you who are changeing the plane, which i think is the right thing to do. this plane has so much to offer and the way all of you are going about it, all of that will come out. i thought real hard about the Vision, but i still come back to the kr. there is just something about this bird and of course all of you who are building and trying to build a better kr for all of us to follow. ok, now since i said all of these great things about you all who is giving me there plans (kr2 and kr2s) tandem2 in holding ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:20:32 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Rotary engines At 12:52 AM 10/23/97 -0400, TANDEM2@aol.com wrote: i would guess around 225lbs. still sounds a bit to heavy but with the hp a kr2s might be able to handle it. yes that is a ?. does anyone know what is the max weight a kr2s can handle in a engine. this guy has been building thease engines for a long time, mostly in race cars. he is doing alot now in birds. will be going down to see him soon so will report on what i find out then. > >tandem2 in holding > Rand says the 2S can handle the O-235 and they are close to 240, A E-81 with reduction comes in around 250 pounds. What does it mean? I dont know?! Things like published max engine weight are only a pipe dream! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:21:45 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat At 11:08 PM 10/22/97 -0600, Jeb wrote: >I've never had a problem with 'em, I ordered >aluminum tubing, fittings and mixing cups/stir sticks >and vinyl ester and boom, arrived here in 5 days. >only one thing on back order and they told me up >front. > John Bryhan >jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > Los Alamos, NM Me neither but obviously there are a lot of people who have. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:27:03 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Trim System At 01:00 AM 10/23/97 -0400, MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: However, isn't "using a spring in compression" what most taildraggers with tailwheel springs do nowadays? The pull from the chains connect internally to the opposite ends through the middle of the spring, so when you pull on the chain, the spring compresses. Seems fairly simple. > >Mike Taglieri > > See I was making it way to complex! I was thinking about springs inside of tubes with special fittings on each end for the connection. (kinda like a preload device) Thats how its done on big birds! Anyway, how is using a spring like this any safer than using it the other way? If the spring breaks you still lose tension on one side and full trim would be applied to the other? Right? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:25:40 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Canopy Latch Question (Snappy Response) Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Hey, Ross- > > A guy could get the wrong idea here. Your signature sez you're a "Staff > Technical Specialist". And you're asking for ideas? Are these KRs hard > to build, or what? > > Sorry. > > Oscar :) :) Well how do I field that one. A) After 18 years of being a tecno weenie, I've decided it's easier to steal someone elses ideas then to do all the hard work yourself. B) A "Staff Technical Specialist" Could be anything, they just made that title up recently, I don't really do anything. C) I work with digital testers. You put an HC11 microcontroller under the cowling and I can talk to it, it's this non "fly-by-wire" stuff thats so hard. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:27:41 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Throttle Linkage Question Tom, I've got a GPASC 1835CC with Great Plains 4->1 Exhaust and Great Plains Intake. An Ellison TBI and Compu-Fire CDI ignition. Now If I can just wire up the throttle, I can turn her over. I guess the mixture & carb heat would be usefull too. I built up one carb heat plenum but I wasn't happy with the results, I'm looking for ideas before I trash some more stuff. (I wired the firewall side of the electrical yesterday & today.) - -- Ross Tom Crawford wrote: > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > HELP! Again. > > > > THROTTLE LINKAG EMOUNT QUESTION > > In all the photos of KR engines I've seen, it has been VERY difficult > > to get a good look at the throttle & mixture linkages. > > > > So here I am, wanting to start my engine up, and I'm trying to avoid > > a Rube Goldberg mouse-trap, toothpaste throttle linkage. > > > > I bought some very nice ACS push-pull controls, the black and red > > knobs look really pretty in the cockpit, but I need some hints on > > what to do with the other end. (Besides that!) > > > > I would appricate it if folks who have SOLVED this problem could > > dig up some photos/drawings, this is one of those tricky areas that > > I think needs to be done right. > > > > Also.... I have the Great Plains downtubes with my Ellison, and > > believe that SOME form of mechanical attachment to the engine is > > necessary besides the hose & C-clamps. Has anyone got ideas here? > > > > I'm stumped. (At least for the moment.) > > > > -- Ross > > -- > > > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > > PIN#895-9073 > > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > > 1632 > > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com > > Ross, > > What engine are you using? > > Tom Crawford > tomc@afn.org > Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:30:23 -0700 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR:KR Bran If there is an interest, I can make up some KRBran boxes and market them on the KRNET.ORG site. (You can do wonders with that HP printer.) Did I tell you thats how I did my "N" numbers... yep, printed them on the HP printer onto Avery Stick-em paper, then used these as templates. Cut out with a utility knife, used some fineline masking tape, and Vola! A big mess. Actually it turned out OK, but have you heard of Vinal Letters? Nuff Said. They are REALLY pretty, but lots of work. - -- Ross BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-10-21 08:39:07 EDT, Robert wrote (while helping Oscar): > > << Be assured that Randy has his kids do his reading for him. This frees him > up to learn how himself. :) >> > > Hey you jokers, the five hardest years of my life were first grade. Of > course you two know I'm going to be waiting for the next public floggin' and > draft both of you as the "flog-test dummies" as a reward for sharing my > family secrets! > > Say Oacar, I'm impressed you can find so much info on the back of a pack of > TP. My Charmin pack has little useable airplane info. What brand of TP are > you reading? Maybe a little fiber in your diet is in order? It would speed > up your life (less library time) and give you more building time. > > Heck we could even sell KRBran - keeps you and your project moving..nah > > Randy (in waiting) Stein ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #141 *****************************