From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 7:43 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n151' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #151 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Wednesday, October 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 151 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:43:00 +-200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: RE: KR: limbach engine I have a 2000 T-4 in my A/C (aircraft) and from its first tests (previous owner) the performance is great Kobus De Wet - ---------- From: MARVIN MCCOY[SMTP:MR.MARVIN@worldnet.att.net] Sent: 29 October, 1997 07:07 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Re: KR: limbach engine TANDEM2@aol.com wrote: what about the vw t-4 i here talk about? is it 2000 and what > kind of hp? is it any good to use in a kr? > > tandem2 > > in holding--------------- I have a Type IV that I am building to 2400cc that I will be using in my KR. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:59:23 -0500 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine MARVIN MCCOY wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:55:52 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > > enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > > > > > OK, Marvin, how about a little info about your Type 4 conversion? Parts like > > crank pistons, sleeves, heads, carb, ignitioin, etc. There are a lot of Type 4s > > available, and I, for one, am looking for a good combination of safety/cost > > effectiveness in converting one of these beasties. > > > > Ed Newbold > > Columbus, OH-------------------------- > > ED: > My type IV is out ot a 914 porsche, 2000 cc. I am using the > stock crank which is 71 mm and stock rods. With Great Planes 103mm > pistons this will be close to 2400cc. Steve at Great planes tapered the > crank for his Force one prop hub and bearing. I am using all of Steve's > advise that I can get. I purchased new heads from MOFOCO. I think they > were about $300 each with valves and machining for 103mm pistons. RIMCO > did most of the machine work on the rebuilt case, crank and rods. They > did very nice work. I had a local VW machine shop bore the case for a > mechanical fuel pump. Since the fuel injected 2000cc type IV had > electric pump and all others have mechanical. The fuel pump pad was > there but needed to be drilled out. I plan to use both mechanical and > electric fuel pump with the Ellison carb. Since Ellison is only a > couple of blocks away from me. I will only have wing tanks, no header > tank. I will use a stock hydraulic cam. I have not decided if I will > use dual ignition. I want to use some type of electronic ignition but > will most likely add a magneto with a second set of spark plugs drilled > in the heads. The Type IV has a oil filter and oil cooler on it > already. The type IV is a good 20 lbs heavier then the type I, but when > I compared the case and crank, the type IV looked a lot stronger and > therefore I hope more reliable. I have not put the motor together yet > since it will be a while before I am ready to mount it. > I hope the extra weight of the Type IV will be off set by the > extra power it produces. However it may not be. I still believe that > the Type I makes the best combination of power to weight for the KR > since it was designed for that motor. I decided to use the Type IV > because I think it would be a bit more reliable. Just my opinion. > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field > Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net > ----------------------- Ed, I built a T4 for my KR2. The engine came out of a 1978 VW bus. Originally it was 2000cc, now it has 105mm pistons and jugs. I decided to use the original crank, so this makes it about 2400cc. The compression ratio came out to 8.6:1, a little higher than recommended. I am using dual ignition, mag and Compufire. I recut and welded the stock headers like T.B. did, and welded up an intake M-fold from 1.25" stock. Am using an Ellison TBI with an electric fuel pump but think mechanical is a good idea. I turn a Sterba 56x54 prop at 3000 rpm static. I just finished all my ground testing, and am waiting for that perfect day for my first flight. May be tomorrow- it is suppose to be nice and I have the day off. Also, I received lots of help from Steve Bennett while building the engine. He patiently endured my endless stream of dumb questions. Thanks Steve! Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:19:07 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: New GPS >I see Cabela has a $99.00 GPS (Magellan Pioneer) in their catalog. Tracks >12 satellites. 100 waypoints. One route with ten legs. Altitude and all >the rest. Speed to 951 mph. Operates 20 hours on 2 AA. >Ed Janssen I'll bet that's the one that used to be $149.00. What's Cabela's phone number, Ed? Cheers, Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:26:49 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine Let's see now, Tom Bagnetto, Marvin McCoy and Tom Crawford are all running Type-4s. Appears that this engine is catching on quite nicely. All are using Ellison carbs. Interesting. I need to get my hands on one of those babys. Methinks a call to Steve Bennett is probably in order for me, since all three of you expressed sincere thanks to him for his assistance. Looks like I might become his next PITA. Thanks guys, for all the info. This forum sure is great for information exchanges! Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:41:00 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals I'm still prepping the KR-1 I got from Bill Reents, and would like to know if anyone has any good ideas for a nice cover for the wing gap where the wings bolt onto the stubs. Currently I have 4 rectangular aluminum plates that use 6/32 screws in each corner. These plates screw onto the upper surfaces of the wings over the mounting bolt opening holes. It appears that duct tape was then applied over the gaps and plates and wrapped around from the upper surface to the lower surface. There are no plates to cover the lower wing surface holes. I have three ideas at this point; A. Wrap the gaps with clear plastic sheet (top & bottom surfaces), put the aluminum plates in place (without screws), lay a strip of fiberglass over the the plastic and plates. Lay on a fairly thick coat of resin. Slap another sheet of plastic around the entire mess. When cured, trim, drill finish, pray. or B. Cut a strip of .040 aluminum 5" wide and long enough to cover the entire top and bottom gap. Glue a thin strip of rubber to one side of it. Attach it to the top rear surface over the gap, and then gently bend the whole thing into shape around the leading edge and attach it to the lower rear surface just in front of the aileron linkage. or C. Try to find a 5" wide length of some heavy plastic material (like vinyl house siding) and try to heat/form it to the leading edge shape and wrap it around the wing over the gaps. Ugh! Anyone have any good ideas about this? At this point I don't want to permanently glass over the gaps, eventhough that's what ultimately looks the best. Thanks guys. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH P.S. Taxi time this weekend, Ed J! :o) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:17:12 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes Jed Whitford wrote: > I have never actually built one of these so I'm just speaking from my > knowledge of engineering. If it's unavoidable than the RR have probably > looked into it otherwise they run the risk of liability cases. Anyway if > you have to do it you have to do it I'm just saying if you can avoid it > then this is a good idea but if you have no choice than that is what has to > be done. > Jed Whitford > We are going a bit overboard on this one. The maximum stress levels will occur at the junction of the spar and the fuselage. The stress levels inside the fuselage will decrease to approximately half that at the wing root. The stress levels outside of the fuselage will decrease as the distance from the fuselage increases. The main spar center section is uniform in all dimensions for approximately 20 inches outboard of the fuselage. Therefore, the margin to safety increases the farther away you get from the wing root, both inside and outside the fuselage. Keep the holes to a minimum in number and size, and as far away from the fuselage sides as possible, and it just won't matter. - -- Don Reid Taking the Professional Engineering license exam on 10/31/97 in Mechanical Engineering. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:29:44 -0500 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > I hope the extra weight of the Type IV will be off set by the > extra power it produces. However it may not be. If the 2180 can haul 900 lb of KR through the air, then the 2.4 should be able to haul about 9% more since its displacement is 9% more. This would correspond to about 80 lb more. Subtracting the 25 lb extra for the T4 engine, this leaves about 55 lb to the good. Crude calculation but I couldn't resist. (sorry for empty posts before, but my PC does that once in a while) Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:34:50 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine At 04:29 PM 10/29/97 -0500, smithr wrote: > (sorry for empty posts before, but my PC does that once in a while) > >Bob Smith > > Yea RIGHT! Blame it on the PC!! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:44:10 CDT From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: KR: GP4 Wing plans G'Day All Hands Once piqued, my curiosity must be satisfied or beaten back with a stick. Steve Bennet indicated that the KR2 he sold a while ago had wood wings based on GP4 plans. Can anyone give me a reference to said wings or a photo of one opened up? I would just like to get ideas on a couple of unsure areas before committing my 2s in that direction. I would guarantee return of any sketches, undamaged, muy pronto. Rex Ellington Norman OK Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:54:51 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes At 11:17 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote: >Don Reid >Taking the Professional Engineering license exam on 10/31/97 in Mechanical >Engineering. >mailto:donreid@erols.com >http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > > Good luck - if not the first try, the second for sure! Sincerely, brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:53:43 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Vinylester and paint color Hi, netters- I have read the article on vinylester resin. It states that curing at room temperature, the stuff is very good at maintaining strength at elevated temps... much more so than other resins. The number put out in the article is 300F... which is HOT. My question- if the color we paint the planes has to do with keeping internal heat buildup to a minimum, is that because the resin gets soft, or the glass doesn't like it, or the foam doesn't like it? If it's the resin, looks like we got it licked and we can all use colors other than white if we build with vinylester. Right? If it's the glass or the foam, I guess I'm still sunk. But, if a good UV blocker ("silver") is used to cut down on what gets into the wing, won't that help, too? I would like to consider colors running to gray or maybe a tad darker than just plain vanilla. Thanks Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:54:35 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Vinylester Oh, and by the way- How did this thread get to be called "the vinyl ester HORSE"? I don't get it. Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:02:48 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine >At 04:29 PM 10/29/97 -0500, smithr wrote: >> (sorry for empty posts before, but my PC does that once in a while) >> >>Bob Smith >> >> >Yea RIGHT! Blame it on the PC!! :o) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Well he couldn't blame it on a Mac. ;) Just wouldn't happen. And he obviously hasn't learned to blame it on you yet, Mike. Like me. :) >Subtracting the 25 lb extra for >the T4 engine, this leaves about 55 lb to the good. Crude calculation >but I couldn't resist. I like that analogy of the weight vs. the 9%, sounds cool to me. Hope it is wrong though, that there is magic in there. So you get 100 lb better. Yeah, 100 lbs better on a kr-2S, 55 for a plain kr-2. That's the ticket. Turbo. If using a VW in my plane, I will go type 4. Maybe I can scrap my van and get it out of there when the time comes. GEX used to sell type 4 longblocks for around 1200 (exchange?), but I don't know if they are around anymore, or if those prices are (real) old history. Robert Covington t88@primenet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:07:37 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes and gear placement Donald Reid wrote: > > > > The maximum stress levels will > occur at the junction of the spar and the fuselage. The stress levels inside > the fuselage will decrease to approximately half that at the wing root. The > stress levels outside of the fuselage will decrease as the distance from the > fuselage increases. The main spar center section is uniform in all > dimensions for approximately 20 inches outboard of the fuselage. Therefore, > the margin to safety increases the farther away you get from the wing root, > both inside and outside the fuselage. Keep the holes to a minimum in number > and size, and as far away from the fuselage sides as possible, and it just > won't matter. > > -- > Don Reid > Taking the Professional Engineering license exam on 10/31/97 in Mechanical > Engineering. >-------------------- Don: That sounds good. Now my question adds a little twist to the "hole" problem. I was thinking of moving the main gear outward ten inches or so away from the side of the fuselage to get it away from the prop wash. This would be a better place for drilling holes but with the gear farther out it seems to me that it would put more force on the spar at the fuselage. Since the leverage on the spar seems to be increased now that the gear attachment is farther out. Will this be a big deal and reason to worry about the spar?? Or is the spar strong enough that it will not matter?? Thanks Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:47:42 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: limbach engine We still support the t4 engine up to 2600 cc. We no longer sell the 2.6l engine however. We offer a conversion kit to build a customers t4 core into a 2400cc enigne. We have the intakes, exhaust stubs, hub, bearings, gasket sets, 103mm p&c sets etc... If you need a 78mm crank, contact bradley aero for a replacement. steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:53:18 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: 78mm Type 4 crank both reasons are correct. when the rear drive is done, the t4 should make a great comeback at gpasc. steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:58:41 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine displacement is more, but stroke usually rules. the 2180 t1 is 82 and the 2400 t4 is 71. acutal dyno test show torque to be very similar. steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:09:34 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Vinylester >Oh, and by the way- > >How did this thread get to be called "the vinyl ester HORSE"? > >I don't get it. > >Oscar I think it got started when Mark Langford started beating it before Perrykosh. Anything that gets thrashed around only to resurface later in either new or other form (as new) becomes a dead horse that was beaten earlier. We on KR-Net enjoy lifeless horses at times. They may be dead, but they always have kick left in them. :) Ex: The horse below has been killed, mulched, sold for dog food, and then reconstituted out of burgers back into the shape of a horse many times. "The KR is absolutely positively 100% pitch stable." (any Horse needs a stable) It may yet live again, Nay, I say. ;) Robert Covington http://www.primenet.com/~t88 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:07:11 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: New GPS At 10:19 AM 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I see Cabela has a $99.00 GPS (Magellan Pioneer) in their catalog. Tracks >>12 satellites. 100 waypoints. One route with ten legs. Altitude and all >>the rest. Speed to 951 mph. Operates 20 hours on 2 AA. >>Ed Janssen > >I'll bet that's the one that used to be $149.00. What's Cabela's phone number, >Ed? > >Cheers, >Ed Newbold >Columbus, OH > Cabela is 1-800-237-4444 Website: http://www.cabelas.com/index.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:10:08 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Vinylester and paint color At 04:53 PM 10/29/97 PST, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >If it's the glass or the foam, I guess I'm still sunk. But, if a good >UV blocker ("silver") is used to cut down on what gets into the wing, >won't that help, too? > >I would like to consider colors running to gray or maybe a tad darker >than just plain vanilla. > Horse, talking about this subject is like kicking a dead horse! Get it? Anyway, I have an opinion and yes its worth what you paid for it! Here goes, variations from white on true composite designs is not recommended because of the UV rays and heat causing a breakdown of the various components that make up the structure (foam, epoxy, and glass) This will cause a strength degradation of a period of time. But I don't view the KR series as a true composite homebuilt and feel you could get away with colors other than just plain white as long as they were on the lighter side, sorta like pastels. I may paint mine the same color as my 1996 GTi, which is "Flash Red" (VW color) The tops of the wings may be white with the leading edge painted in red trim. (like the One Design on the AS&S Catalog) Vinylesters must have better resistance to heat and UV because you see Lancairs and Glasairs showing up with paint jobs other than white, even on the factory airplanes! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:12:09 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Type-4 Engine At 05:02 PM 10/29/97 -0800, Robert Covington wrote: >Well he couldn't blame it on a Mac. ;) Just wouldn't happen. What the heck does a Hamberger from McDonalds have to do with this? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:11:43 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: Vinylester At 04:54 PM 10/29/97 PST, you wrote: >Oh, and by the way- > >How did this thread get to be called "the vinyl ester HORSE"? > >I don't get it. > >Oscar > Oscar, As in "beating a dead horse". Vinylester has been drug over the coals by a some netters a few hundred messages ago. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:13:00 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Vinylester At 16:54 10/29/97 PST, you wrote: >Oh, and by the way- > >How did this thread get to be called "the vinyl ester HORSE"? > >I don't get it. > >Oscar I'm curious too Oscar. I don't know if it means like beating a dead one or getting on one and riding off into the sunset. ;) Austin Clark KR2S / Subaru Pascagoula MS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:35:27 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes Donald Reid wrote: > We are going a bit overboard on this one. The maximum stress levels will > occur at the junction of the spar and the fuselage. Very true, Here's my tips: 1) Avoid the wing/fuse junction for any holes. 2) Also you're better off with the holes in the upper cap than the lower (if you have a choice) The compressive flight loads will carry through the fastener shank if it's a snug fit. 3) The best approach for any big loads you're trying to feed into the spar is to put in a verticle member between the caps and put the fasteners in the verticle member. 4) For openings in the plywood shear panel for feed throughs etc, put on a ring doubler to carry the shear around the hole. EXAMPLE: for a 1" hole, bond on about a 3" OD ring around the hole (of the same thickness as the web). 5) Don't put holes near the edges of the caps. If you put some through the cap then put them through the MIDDLE of the cap. 6) based on the historical KR data there's not a problem with the occasional 1/4" fastener through a spar cap horizontally. Don't go crazy but I wouldn't worry about a couple more if they're not close to any other holes. 7) if it's a big hole and you're in doubt then beef up the structure to equivelant strength. If you not sure just ask. There's enough of us that can figure it out and we'll help. that's all for now - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:46:50 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: Old glue, Desert air :( Well gang, I just brought my fuselage home from the airfield so I can start on it again after I paint this last wing panel. This fuselage boat as you may recall was built by someone else many years ago. After sitting in the desert air for these last 10 months the wood has finally achieved equalibrium with the surround dry air. Unfortunatly the induced shrinkage has popped some of the old AEROLITE glue joints. They are stuck on well enough that removing them would damage a lot of good wood but I cant just leave them. I figure my options are. a) Fill the gaps with epoxy and live with the questionable bond strength. b) add fiberglass fillets between the skins and longerons etc to assure adequate shear transfer to the longerons from the skins (the uprights are in compression and the corner blocks aren't as critical on those) c) Break out everything questionable and fix all the damage. d) build a flat table, get some more drawings and...nah. I'm leaning towards b) for critical structure and a) for non-critical Do any of you have any other ideas or thoughts on it? - -Peter- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:51:55 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Vinylester and paint color >Vinylesters must have better resistance to heat and UV because you see >Lancairs and Glasairs showing up with paint jobs other than white, even on >the factory airplanes! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Me thinks the reason is that the parts are post cured. If a given epoxy is "heat stable" up to 60 degrees F above the cure temp, then curing at 80 deg yields a 140 def F deformation temp. Postcure it at 160 degrees F then the value becomes 220 deg F and other colors become usable. Just a bubba's thoughts. Postcuring composites seems to have a benefit. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:57:13 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Old glue, Desert air :( At 05:46 PM 10/29/97 -0800, Peter Hudson wrote: >a) Fill the gaps with epoxy and live with the questionable bond >strength. >b) add fiberglass fillets between the skins and longerons etc to assure >adequate shear transfer to the longerons from the skins (the uprights >are in compression and the corner blocks aren't as critical on those) >I'm leaning towards b) for critical structure and a) for non-critical > >Do any of you have any other ideas or thoughts on it? I have heard re-gluing joints that have gaps is acceptable and the flox / fiberglass method would be more than adequate, don't you think? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:30:07 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > I'm still prepping the KR-1 I got from Bill Reents, and would like to know if > anyone has any good ideas for a nice cover for the wing gap where the wings > bolt onto the stubs. How about a vinyl trim tape. The same kind used for N numbers. That should be heavy enough to bridge the gaps and flexible enough to form. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:29:45 -0600 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: A tip on studying the plans MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > >the builder thanks RR for an excellent set of plans. So, they > >must be sufficient for some people. > > > >Me, I'm still waiting for mine! Bought a set from Ricky Pitman through > >a post here, but he's been out of town and unable to send them to me. > >The UPS guy is usually here by 3 PM, so if he gets my stuff to me today, > >you may not hear from me for a while. > > Here's a tip I found very useful when studying the manual: Take the pages > out of that damn 3-ring binder and fasten the pages with three brass paper > fasteners (the kind with the ends that you spread apart. To keep the pages > clean, you can get front and back covers from a stationery store or make them > yourself from thin cardboard. > > Now you have a sturdy, portable manual the size of one of Tony Bingelis's > books, so you can read it easily and flip pages back and forth without > tearing a page. Also, it'll store on a normal bookshelf. > > The 3-ring binder is better at staying OPEN on a particular page, so I may > put them back when I start building, but not till then. > > Mike Taglieri When I got my plans and prints for Christmas two years ago Mike, the first thing I did was trash the RR binder and shopped Staples for a "D" ring binder and a couple of packs of page sleves. My manual is all enclosed in plastic now and should stand up to the mess in the shop. Now I'm thinking of buying a couple 4x8 sheets of lexan and permanently mounting the plans to the shop wall! I tend to over do everything, so I'm told. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:45:57 -0600 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes Donald Reid wrote: > > Jed Whitford wrote: > > I have never actually built one of these so I'm just speaking from my > > knowledge of engineering. If it's unavoidable than the RR have probably > > looked into it otherwise they run the risk of liability cases. Anyway if > > you have to do it you have to do it I'm just saying if you can avoid it > > then this is a good idea but if you have no choice than that is what has to > > be done. > > Jed Whitford > > > > We are going a bit overboard on this one. The maximum stress levels will > occur at the junction of the spar and the fuselage. The stress levels inside > the fuselage will decrease to approximately half that at the wing root. The > stress levels outside of the fuselage will decrease as the distance from the > fuselage increases. The main spar center section is uniform in all > dimensions for approximately 20 inches outboard of the fuselage. Therefore, > the margin to safety increases the farther away you get from the wing root, > both inside and outside the fuselage. Keep the holes to a minimum in number > and size, and as far away from the fuselage sides as possible, and it just > won't matter. > > -- > Don Reid > Taking the Professional Engineering license exam on 10/31/97 in Mechanical > Engineering. > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Don, good luck on the exam. I'm sure you are prepared as well for it as you are with your plane building. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:01:30 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Vinylester and paint color On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:51:55 -0700, you wrote: > >>Vinylesters must have better resistance to heat and UV because you see >>Lancairs and Glasairs showing up with paint jobs other than white, even= on >>the factory airplanes! >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Micheal Mims > > >Me thinks the reason is that the parts are post cured. If a given epoxy= is >"heat stable" up to 60 degrees F above the cure temp, then curing at 80 = deg=20 >yields a 140 def F deformation temp. Postcure it at 160 degrees F then= the >value becomes 220 deg F and other colors become usable. > >Just a bubba's thoughts. Postcuring composites seems to have a = benefit. > >Ron Lee This is right. It all depends on the temp at which the parts were cured at. If the parts get hotter than they were cured at then they will get soft again. =20 This is mainly why the Lancair's and Glasairs can go with darker colors. They are heat cured to at least 250 degrees F (Lancair is cured to this, not sure about Glasair but I assume it is close to this) There was an article in Kitplanes Oct 1995 about Ray Modert's Lancair. It was painted with Toyota Super Red II. It talks about flying conservative for the first 10-15 min of flight to allow the airframe to cool enough to return to original strength. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:03:35 -0600 From: khersh Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes and gear placement > ........ I was thinking of moving the main gear outward ten > inches or so away from the side of the fuselage to get it away from > the prop wash. This would be a better place for drilling holes but with the gear farther out it seems to me that it would put more force on the spar at the fuselage. > > Marvin McCoy Marvin, i was thinking that the splice ends of the wing center section would be an ideal placement for a mini torqe box-section between the spars. This kind of bracing could not only carry the landing loads but also strenghten the wing carry loads; the rear spar then gets to help with the landing loads. I know that there is the rib, but a torqe-box could do so much more but the weight factors must also be considered. Thanks for letting sound off. keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:42:11 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Old glue, Desert air :( Peter Hudson wrote: > > Well gang, > Unfortunatly the induced > shrinkage has popped some of the old AEROLITE glue joints. They are > stuck on well enough that removing them would damage a lot of good wood > but I cant just leave them. I figure my options are. > > a) Fill the gaps with epoxy and live with the questionable bond > strength. > b) add fiberglass fillets between the skins and longerons etc to assure > adequate shear transfer to the longerons from the skins (the uprights > are in compression and the corner blocks aren't as critical on those) > > I'm leaning towards b) for critical structure and a) for non-critical > > Do any of you have any other ideas or thoughts on it? > > -Peter- - ------------------ Peter: I think that would work. But if I were you I would try to glue a test piece with the same type of dried aerolite glue on it and try breaking it just to see if the epoxy will stick to it. Since you will not be able to sand the area clean. Epoxy is great stuff but some times it will not stick very good to some surfaces that are dirty. Just my thoughts Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - --------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:20:05 -0700 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > I'm still prepping the KR-1 I got from Bill Reents, and would like to know if > anyone has any good ideas for a nice cover for the wing gap where the wings bolt > onto the stubs. > > Currently I have 4 rectangular aluminum plates that use 6/32 screws in each > corner. These plates screw onto the upper surfaces of the wings over the > mounting bolt opening holes. > > It appears that duct tape was then applied over the gaps and plates and wrapped > around from the upper surface to the lower surface. > > There are no plates to cover the lower wing surface holes. > > I have three ideas at this point; > > A. Wrap the gaps with clear plastic sheet (top & bottom surfaces), put the > aluminum plates in place (without screws), lay a strip of fiberglass over the > the plastic and plates. Lay on a fairly thick coat of resin. Slap another sheet > of plastic around the entire mess. When cured, trim, drill finish, pray. > > or > > B. Cut a strip of .040 aluminum 5" wide and long enough to cover the entire top > and bottom gap. Glue a thin strip of rubber to one side of it. Attach it to the > top rear surface over the gap, and then gently bend the whole thing into shape > around the leading edge and attach it to the lower rear surface just in front of > the aileron linkage. > > or > > C. Try to find a 5" wide length of some heavy plastic material (like vinyl house > siding) and try to heat/form it to the leading edge shape and wrap it around the > wing over the gaps. > > Ugh! Anyone have any good ideas about this? At this point I don't want to > permanently glass over the gaps, eventhough that's what ultimately looks the > best. > > Thanks guys. > Ed Newbold > Columbus, OH > > P.S. Taxi time this weekend, Ed J! :o) Hi Ed, As a suggestion, try some of the suppliers that supply marking tape for basketball floors. It is plastic and pliable. You can get it in different colors and witdths. I used 2" wide, white for my wing to cover the gap. Worked real good! Hope this helps. - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:31:43 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals At 10:20 PM 10/29/97 -0700, cartera wrote: >Hi Ed, >As a suggestion, try some of the suppliers that supply marking tape >for basketball floors. It is plastic and pliable. You can get it in >different colors and witdths. I used 2" wide, white for my wing to >cover the gap. Worked real good! Hope this helps. >-- >Adrian VE6AFY >cartera@cuug.ab.ca >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > Adrian! How the heck are you? I have missed you here on the net! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:12:10 -0500 (EST) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: VW engine In a message dated 97-10-28 05:12:34 EST, Keith wrote: << All this talk about VW engines got me to thinking about a version which was built to survive under racing conditions. It was centered around a new block design from: Pauter Machine Co., Inc 367 Zenith St Chula Vista, CA 91911 (619)422-5384 An article in the Jan 1993 issue of Dune Buggies and Hot VWs describes some interesting developments of this lowey engine. Some of the points of interest are: 1) no more split case (1-piece) 2) 4-bolt mains 3) cam-shaft held in via bearing caps like the crank 4) 2.750" Ford 351 Clevland main bearings and journals 5) cam-shaft changes in 30-min 6) oiling system: wet or dry as you desire 7) 200 cu. in. (3.0-liter) 8) block weight approx 45lbs 9) distruibter drive and oil pump contained within a front end plate 10) Chevy cam/lifter combination can be used. any thoughts? later keith >> Well, we discussed this at the last KRKosh Skunk session. Cost is one factor. Seems to me it was in the $2,000 - $3,000 range. It was about 25 lbs extra in the fat department. It was a agreat idea to me too until I heard these things. I think it may take special heads too. Might as well buy a Jabiru, JPX, Rotax 912 or Midwest Aero rotary for the pile of bucks you'll end up spending going this route. We concluded a flywheel conversion pack like Steve Bennett is working on is a better way for the $$ and weight involved. Plus you can use quality stock parts bought locally. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #151 *****************************