From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 5:00 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n152' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #152 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Thursday, October 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 152 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:47:08 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR:Rudder Pedals Shelf or Floor I used the technique Monte Miller used in the old newsletter for mounting my rudder pedals to the floor. I placed the 5/8" thick support blocks per plans, then floxed AN-3 Bolts in place underneath the belly coming up through the floor of the cockpit. Now I don't have to worry about nut plates, nor do I have to have two people to install/remove the bolts. Just fair in the micro, and viola'! - -- Ross Bobby Muse wrote: > > At 08:54 PM 10/23/97, you wrote: > >Greetings Fellow Netters, > > > >I've spent my evenings this week cutting, fitting and welding my rudder > >pedals. The plans show them mounted to the floor, but the manual says that > some > >builders have mounted them to the shelf with good results. I think the > >shelf mounting may be best since the only way I can see to mount them to > >the floor is with wood screws (just don't like the idea of using wood screws). > > > >So what problems might I encounter by mounting them to the shelf? Does > >this mean the brake cylinders will be upside down? Does it matter if they > >are? Sure would make for a cleaner looking installation with the pedals > >hanging down. > > > >Austin Clark > >Boat sprouting wings in Pascagoula, MS > > > > > > Checkout 'zee nuts'. You can buy them from almost any hardware store. They > allow you to use a machine screw into wood. By the way, I mounted my rudder > pedals on the shelf and they work great. Master cyclinders can be a problem > but I mounted the master cyclinders to the front of the main spar. I > activate the cyclinders using Scwinn bicycle cables and a bellcrank. Easy > to service. > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:52:41 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Aircraft Certification Thanks! This is going into the "Paperwork" Section of the builders handbook. There is also a AC on test flying... but thats another section. (I'm saving this post for the weekend.) - -- Ross JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-10-24 07:11:47 EDT, you write: > > << here's what you need to ask them for: > > 1. AC 20-27D Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built aircraft > 2. AC 20-139 Commercial Assistance During Construction of > Amateur-Built > A/C > 3. AC 39-7B Airworthiness Directives > 4. AC 65-23A Certification of Repairmen > 5. FAA Form 8130-12 Eligibility Statement > 6. FAA Form 8130-6 Application for Airworthiness Certificate > 7. FAA Form 8610-2 Application for Repairman Certificate > 8. FAA Form 8050-2 Bill of Sale > 9. FAA Form 8-50-1 Registration Application > 10. FAA Form 8050-88 Affidavit of Ownership > > They also provided some other info, including FAA Certification Tips, EAA > Certification Tips, Tips for Flight Testing, Sample Weight and Balance > Forms, > AD Compliance Sheets, Letter of Intent (used to schedule your certification > appointment), and a notice about being consistent on all forms with the make > and model of your airplane. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:54:43 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Building from plans Oscar, Actually, although I slammed the plans, they are pretty descriptive for the most part. They don't cover things like engine installation etc too well, but that's where Tony Bengelis' books come in. -- Ross Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > >Thank you Robert. After reading all of the negative posting, I was > >beginning to wonder if I could ever build a KR from the manuals and > plans. > >Oh yea, I forgot, I did. > > > > > > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > > bmuse@mindspring.com > > Wimberly, TX > > > Hi, Bobby > > I think it's interesting that in the Oct. 97 Sport Aviation, where the > builders' projects are shown and there's a KR (one of the few ever shown > there), the builder thanks RR for an excellent set of plans. So, they > must be sufficient for some people. > > Me, I'm still waiting for mine! Bought a set from Ricky Pitman through > a post here, but he's been out of town and unable to send them to me. > The UPS guy is usually here by 3 PM, so if he gets my stuff to me today, > you may not hear from me for a while. Plus, it's the last 10 days of > deer hunting season here, and I gotta get some fresh air. > > Yeah, I know- you'll be glad I shut up for a while. > > Oscar Zuniga > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:02:54 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: T-Shirt idea in progress [Fwd: Hello Ross!] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------933EEBDC06C82F5B628C6525 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I asked Carlos Sa, if it would be OK to use the KRNET logo for a KRNET T-Shirt. (As seen on http://www.krnet.org) I'm thinking that since it is so close to the end of the year this would have to be a KRNET '98 T-Shirt. What I'm thinking of is a white T-Shirt, with the KRNET Rotating Globe Logo on the Front. (No it won't be moving, unless you jump up and down) With the web address http://www.krnet.org below it On the back it would have "KRNET '98" and two columns of the 175 member email addresses. What do you think of the idea. Proceeds from the sale of these shirts would go to support KRNET and other activities in support of KR builders. I've got a local source for T-Shirts here in Corvallis, and will eventually get back to everyone on rough pricing ideas. -- Ross - --------------933EEBDC06C82F5B628C6525 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: wings@axess.com Received: from mail.axess.com (mail.axess.com [204.19.206.9]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19252 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (ppp-18.axess.com [204.19.207.18]) by mail.axess.com (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA14805 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:57:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971027185526.0079c780@mail.axess.com> X-Sender: wings@mail.axess.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:55:26 -0500 To: rossy@teleport.com From: Carlos Sa Subject: Hello Ross! In-Reply-To: <3453FFE5.9B99AE34@teleport.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings! Nice to hear from you! I have followed the progress of the gang on their respective web pages. Lots of good stuff happening, I see (fly-in and such)... I have no problem with the logo being used in the manner you describe. Just make me famous and give me credit :o) :o) :o) ! As for being a board member, I am flattered (the dictionary says: flatter - to praise insincerely. I'll have to get a new dictionary!) And it could be fun. But honestly, I think the group's interests would be better served by someone that owns or is building a KR. I won't be building in the near future, but I got CH 601 plans for my b-day this summer... So, it will be riveting instead of sanding... Keep sanding, I'll be checking your web pages from time to time. Regards to you and all the KRnetters; blue skies, clear epoxy :o) Carlos At 18:43 97/10/26 -0800, you wrote: >I have an idea for an http://www.krnet.org T-Shirt which would have >your KR-NET logo on the front, and http://www.krnet.org, then >on the back it would have a list of the email addresses of all >the KRNET members. >Since you have the copyright on the logo, I'm wondering if it is >OK to use it for this? All proceeds would go to running KRNET.ORG, >and possibly to support other activities of the KR Builders & Flyers >Association.. (not yet set up.) > >BTW, if I ever do get around to incorporating us, would you be >interested in serving as an officer or a board member? It would give >you a say in how the operation is run. > > -- Ross > > - --- Montreal, Canada http://www.axess.com/users/wings *** last update 97/09/06 *** - --------------933EEBDC06C82F5B628C6525-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:04:34 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes Statics was OK, but Dynamics? Ouch. The final had some problem about the cofficient of friction on all four tires when a sudden stop occured, I think the answer involved differential calculus. I guess I passed, but it was all an ugly blur. - -- Ross Jed Whitford wrote: > > At 04:26 PM 27/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > >smithr wrote: > >> > >> With all of the stress analysis being considered for the airframe, has > >> anyone considered the effect of drilling holes in the main spar or spar > >> webs to mount various things such as gear or controls? I suppose it has > >> been proven that the gear holes pose no problem, Would anyone have any > >> suggestions as to how many or how big or where you can make a hole and > >> still stay out of trouble? > >> > >> Bob Smith ... with drill in hand > > > >I recall reading in an text book that when a bending force is applied to > >a simple beem, one side is under compression and the other side is under > >tensile load and at the mid-point there is no stress at all. Of course > >the main spar is not a simple beem but a complex structure. I'd still > >drill it throught the middle. > > > >Robert Moreland > >ranland@worldnet.att.net > > > >Robert > I'm a first year mech engineer and this is part of our statics > course. You seem to have misunderstood this. there is no load along an > imaginary line known as the nuetral axis. This usually lies half way > between the side of the beam that is under compression and the side that is > in tension. hope this helps. > Jed Whitford > jedw@tartarus.uwa.edu.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:05:50 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Retractable U/C hinge brackets AJ, Your right, however at 1:00AM U/C looked like RC, which is what got me into trouble.... -- Ross A. J. Mendes Pereira wrote: > > Actually U/C means "Control Line", and not "Radio Control" as you mentioned. > The "U" as to do with the "U" shaped control handle we use to control the > model aircraft flying around in the 50' (+-) circle around us. I guess you > were close enough for the subject, andyou'd have to be a hard core modeller > to know that. We forgive you... > > Keep on building > Antonio > Portugal > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Date: Domingo, 26 de Outubro de 1997 1:21 > Subject: Re: KR: Retractable U/C hinge brackets > > >Kobus, > > > >My apolgies... It took me a while to decode U/C into "landing gear" > >my brain kept coding U/C to R/C (radio control). So I thought that > >others who were up at 1:00AM might need the translation. It was > >late, and I apologize for the posting. > > > > -- Regards > > Ross > > > >Kobus de Wet wrote: > >> > >> Ross, > >> For reasons of simplicity in South Africa we use the term Under Carriage > >> (U/C) for both fixed and retractable, as very few commercial or military > >> aircraft today still have fixed U/C. You must bear in mind that we not > only > >> have to put up with American Daftness, we also have French, English, > >> German, Italian and lately also Russian Terminology. As the first > >> commercial and military aircraft we came into contact with were British > we > >> took on their terminology as the standard and stuck to it. The American > >> terminology is definitely in the minority as almost all the other > countries > >> mentioned above use a system very close to the British system. Sorry > about > >> all this but the original reason for the letter regarding the cracked > hinge > >> bracket were for reasons of safety and to inform other KR-2 owners and > >> operators of a problem that I found on my aircraft. I do not recall > asking > >> for a lecture on the aircraft terminology as used in the USA. > >> > >> Thanks Kobus > >> > >> Kobus, > >> I think this was one of the reasons that the Retract Gear has lost > >> ground to the fixed gear or Under Carrage (U/C for those who drive on > >> the left.) > >> > >> -- Ross > >> > >> Kobus de Wet wrote: > >> > > >> > The reason that ZS-WPX has not been airborne yet is because I found two > >> of > >> > the three U/C hinge brackets cracked. These are the brackets that > >> attaches > >> > to the U/C beam and rotates around the bolt in the bracket against the > >> > spar. > >> > Both these brackets are castings of very poor quality. There is no way > >> that > >> > I can determine if these brackets came from RR (USA) or from a local > >> > supplier that was dealing out of Lanseria Airport (Pretoria area) > >> > The bottom line is it does not matter where these come from, what does > >> > matter is that all builders and operators should have a good look at > >> their > >> > U/C hinges. > >> > The cracks runs through the outer two holes in the brackets. > >> > > >> > Its hell to get those bracket out of there. Making up a set out of > 4130 > >> > > >> > Kobus (might be flying soon) de Wet > >> > > >> > South Africa > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > >> PIN#895-9073 > >> Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > >> 1632 > >> Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > >> Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com > >> > >> Name: WINMAIL.DAT > >> WINMAIL.DAT Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > >> Encoding: x-uuencode ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:13:11 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Aluminum Spar This is one of those modifications that would make the plane somthing other than a KR. One problem I can think of is the bonding of the fuselage to the spar it self. The Aluminum spar would be more rigid (I belive) than the wood, and I think you would have to design a different spar/fuselage load transfer region to keep the wood from crushing under loads. Keep in mind I no nothing of what I speak.. Also, the bonding of the fiberglass to the spar caps is what gives the wings their strength. Since the spruce spar caps are porous you get a really good bond, I think with aluminum spars you would have to rely on the peel strength of the epoxy, which might not be so good. Then of course, you get into the area of substitution of materials in a composite aircraft... which is generally not recommended. But it is an interesting idea. I expect by the time I post this, there have already been several replys I haven't gotten to. It's a nifty idea however... keep em coming. TANDEM2@aol.com wrote: > > sometimes my mind wonders and i get these crazy ideas, has or can you use an > aluminum i-beam or rectangular beam for a spar in the kr? would it be lighter > and stronger then a wood spar? > > tandem2 ( mind going ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:20:50 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Why KR2S is the best airplane in the world. Top 10 reasons why the KR2S is the BEST airplane in the world. 10 Too small for most mother-in-laws to travel in. 9 The wings come off for trailering. 8 The wings go back on for flying. 7 It's composite, so you get the advantages of working with fiberglass, and epoxy. 6 It's composite, so you get to work with Spruce, Spruce smells great when it's cut. 5 It uses VW power, which is pretty cheap when compared to other alternatives. 4 You can actually build it! 3 Building your KR2 gives you somtihing else to think about besides your #@%!^ job. 2 You don't have to buy any clecos unless you really want to. 1 No crazy jigs required. Just a big table, and lots of spare time. Well, at least I came up with 10. - -- Ross Michele Bucceri wrote: > > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > >Please try to be patient with those of us who haven't yet started > > >glueing together spruce sticks yet. > > > > > >Patrick > > >-- > > >Patrick Flowers > > >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > > > > > > > Amen. Thanks, Patrick. > > > > Also, please try to be patient with folks like me, who have suddenly > > found in the Internet and KRNet, a group of like-minded people. I > > sometimes ramble on and toss in fluff, but am genuinely interested in > > harvesting data and contributing as I am able. I just get carried away > > at times with the camaraderie. I know it slows down the flow of useful > > data. > > > > I agree with Bobby, that the main intent here is to talk KRs, building, > > flying, tweaking, tech issues, ideas. I'll try to restrain until I'm in > > that position. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Oscar > > > > ... > > Gee, I will take advantage of this thread ... > Does anybody out there has some time to convince me the KR2S is the best > airplane in the world? After that, gimme some good reason that it's the > worst! > I'm not already glueing, but I think I'll begin in a few. > > Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) > -- > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB > Michele Bucceri > E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it > Phone: +39-2-43888423/8781 > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:23:26 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: indigestion? Digest Digest Procedure... Send an email to krnet@krnet.org, and ask.... or Automagicly it can be done like this. (I have to skip some lines here so majordomo doesn't bounce this message). Send an email to mailto:majordomo@teleport.com with the body text: (subject line can be anything) unsubscribe krnet-l myaddress@mycomputer.com subscribe krnet-l-digest myaddress@mycomputer.com You will get one message every time 40,000 characters have spewed forth from krnet. (From 1/day to 1/week). - -- Ross Scott Goodman wrote: > > Could someone mail me the procedure for switching to the digest version? > Too many msg's in my inbox, the digest version would be easier to handle. > > Thanks, > Scott Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:27:07 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Visit to Mike's Troy, There are several completed KR-2's in the Phoenix area. If you hook up with the EAA Chapter at Falcon Field, there was one retired gentleman who had his hangared there. Another was hangered in Glendale but the owner lived in Tempe. Then there was the gentelman who had his in Chandler, but sold it around '90... I don't know where it went. Too bad I moved. I will be in Town over Christmas, I plan to sneak in an hour or two of dual in the nice weather at Chandler Air Service. -- Ross Troy Johnson wrote: > > Okay gang, > > Here is my official report on my visit to Mike Mims' project: > > Somebody get me a garage 'cause I am ready to start building! > > If anyone out there is considering a project or is stagnating on theirs, > find someone nearby and request some time to take a peek at what they are > doing, it will definitely get the blood flowing. I feel fortunate in > getting to see Mike's as he has made a lot of "improvements" to his that > coincide with some things I have been dreaming of doing. He also pointed > out some things he would do differently were he to do over again. > > I believe it would be beneficial for anyone to visit someone else's project > to see what other people have done and to find out what problems they had > and things they would change. It is one thing to read and see pictures on > the net, quite another to put your hands on actual work and climb around > and poke your head in different corners. > > Congrats to Mike on the beautiful workmanship he has done to this point, > and good luck with the rest of the project. I will probably be bugging him > again soon since I am out his way fairly frequently...hear that > Mike?....I'll be back.... > > So, is there anyone out there building in Arizona? > > Troy "primed and ready to build" Johnson > ************************************************************* > > If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! > > Troy A. Johnson > WYLE Electronics > 1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North > Phoenix, AZ 85034 > (602)-495-9953 > (602)-416-2158 (direct) > > ************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:30:10 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: KR2-S Build as you go! The build as you go should have been my #1 reason. If you plan ahead, you can keep building for about $100-200 a month for a LONG time. That's how I did it, however I have to say, some months, I cheated and spent more. - -- Ross jeb wrote: > > It may not be the best in the world, but it IS a really > good project, just because you can spend as you build. > You don't need $20,000 dollars up front just to start. > (What is that in lira?? :^) ) > It's reasonably fast (if light) very responsive and from > what I hear extremely fun to fly > Can't be the worst it beats a C-150 and even they > aren't the worst. > John - Los Alamos NM > jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > > > Does anybody out there has some time to convince me the KR2S is the best > > airplane in the world? After that, gimme some good reason that it's the > > worst! > > Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) > > -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:31:27 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Learning to Sand Micro (Skip this post) Micheal Mims wrote: > NO problemo dude! Anytime! Actually next time bring some shop clothes and > I will teach you how to sand micro! :o) Mike, Is that where you stand REAL still, and make really small micro sanding motions? Keeps the dust down right ;) - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:40:51 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 09:07 PM 10/28/97 -0600, Cole Pierce wrote: > >I wouldn't drill thru the main spar unless I had a detailed > >engineering analysis showing how the load resistance is changed. > > > >gun one > > Then it is safe to say you will never build a KR! :o) Uhhh, Ouch. The manual documents holes through the spar to capture the elevator pullies (aft spar), and the sling seat attach points. For the FWD spar the manual documents the holes for the retract gear castings, and for the control stick. Also, a hole through the webbing is documented for the horizontal control cables. Additional holes... I don't think are recommended. We also had a thread about it being a not so hot idea to drill holes through the longerons that aren't in the plans. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:42:35 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Tom Bagnatto's KR-1 Tom, Thanks! N911TB@aol.com wrote: > > OK you want the whole story! Got a couple of hours? > After attending one of Steve Bennett's seminars at Covington in 1988 I came > home to find an ad in the local paper for a used Porsche 914 engine. It was > a 1700cc model that had about 80,000 miles on it and was just getting tired. > The engine had been stored on this guy's patio for about 18 months and his > wife wasn't convinced that it would make a good planter. He wanted $200 for > the engine complete. After a short conversation with Steve, I was the proud > owner of a pile of greasy parts including the original fuel injection unit. > I stripped the motor and found the oil had never been drained (that probably > preserved the innards) and the crank still turned. After salvaging the case, > heads, flywheel and cool tin the whole mess was sent to Steve with the > instructions to return a 2600cc TopBug. Steve did all the necessary machine > work to install 103mm pistons and 78mm crank. He also machined the case for > a mechanical fuel pump since an electric one was used with the F. I. unit. > The heads were rebuilt and flycut for the larger sleeves. I had to > fabricate the intake manifold since none of the Type 1 models would fit. The > exhaust stacks were made using the original headers and 4130 tubing. The > carb is an Ellison model 2. Ignition is a single Slick 4130 plugged into the > back of a Dhiel supercase housing a 20 amp alternator. The original oil > cooler was used in front of the # 1 cylinder just as it was in the car. > > I rebuilt the engine about 150 hours ago after a "run-in" with a Bonanza > (long story). I'm a little more agressive with the compression than Steve > and upped it to 9.3:1 and installed a mild cam. A few mods to the heads and > a little "tweaking" and I picked up 600 RPM over the original version with > the same diameter and pitch prop (56 X 54). > > Some performance specs: > Cyl head temp-----350 > Oil press-------------40 to 55 > Oil temp--------------200 to 220 ( depends on OAT) > EGT--------------------1300 > MAX RPM -----------3600 ( inflight ) > Fuel Flow ------------6 GPH ( cruise ) > Cruise Speed-------185 MPH > Top Speed ----------207 MPH > Rate of Climb ------WOW! > > Needless to say the cost of the engine wasn't cheap and it's not going to set > endurance records, but I think I get more bang for the buck than the O-200 > guys and can probably give them a run for their money. > > I was sorry to hear Steve say he had dropped the 2600 because of some crank > problems that Dan Dheil and I had. It's just my opinion, but my problems > were the result of a prop strike and had nothing to do with the design of the > crank or mods to the engine. I understand Steve's point of view, however. > He is in business and the plaintiff's lawyers are hovering all around just > waiting for something to happen to contribute to their retirement fund. > > Told 'ya it would take a couple of hours, but you just gotta love them "Big > Block VW's. > Let me hear from you. > > Tom Bagnetto > N911TB > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:46:20 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: A tip on studying the plans I bought those page protectors. I bought a few sheets at a time, as I was spending $$$ on plans, tools etc, the first few months. These are the type where the 3 ring holes are in the clear plastic, and the plans pages fit in the pocket. This worked out well, and has protected my plans from 8 years of neglect and abuse. Plus you can take a pages out, without worrying about spilling coffee or soda on them. (I'd say beer, but I gave up on drinking beer and working in the shop at the same time... just not very productive.) - -- Ross MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > >the builder thanks RR for an excellent set of plans. So, they > >must be sufficient for some people. > > > >Me, I'm still waiting for mine! Bought a set from Ricky Pitman through > >a post here, but he's been out of town and unable to send them to me. > >The UPS guy is usually here by 3 PM, so if he gets my stuff to me today, > >you may not hear from me for a while. > > Here's a tip I found very useful when studying the manual: Take the pages > out of that damn 3-ring binder and fasten the pages with three brass paper > fasteners (the kind with the ends that you spread apart. To keep the pages > clean, you can get front and back covers from a stationery store or make them > yourself from thin cardboard. > > Now you have a sturdy, portable manual the size of one of Tony Bingelis's > books, so you can read it easily and flip pages back and forth without > tearing a page. Also, it'll store on a normal bookshelf. > > The 3-ring binder is better at staying OPEN on a particular page, so I may > put them back when I start building, but not till then. > > Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:48:30 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: KR stability analysis Check out the KRNET yearbook at http://www.krnet.org, one of the websites pointed to by the yearbook has the EAA Sport Aviation article which is an analysis of the KR stability etc. The main gist I got from the article was to keep it light. If anyone recalls the exact web link, can they post it. - -- Ross Michele Bucceri wrote: > > Thanks Bob, all the suggestions are good to make decision! > You wrote: > > ... > > The KR2 is probably not a beginners plane. The original KR is not very > > stable in the pitch axis, although some builders now are trying to > > make changes that will help this. Flying it with 2 onboard is very > > different from 1. > > ... > > Does anybody have never performed stability evaluation? I mean > evaluating most aft/forward CG limits? Looking at the airplane, my > feeling is that the tail volume is not so big. If nobody did, I will, > but I have to wait for the drawings! About the pitch stability, is the > 2S version better? > > Michele Bucceri > > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB > Michele Bucceri > E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:52:44 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: main spar holes Jed, I assumed that each spar cap had a neutral axis through the middle of it's cross section, and attempted to drill the holes at this point. The MOST difficult area to get this done, was at the center AFT spar where the spar taper removes much of the material on the aft face of the spar cap (upper is impacted more than lower). I spent a lot of time manipulating the attach fittings with "C" clamps in place before I had an arrangement that gave me the right hole placement, and clearance above and below the spar for the bellcrank fittings. I would set this up, take lots of measurements, then let it sit for a weekend and think about it. Then I would come back a week later to see if I was on track the week before and all hosed up. This technique seemed to help my queasieness at the thought of screwing up an entire spar/fuselage assembly. Once I had drilled the holes, I wondered what all the fuss was about... WHEW. It worked. -- Ross Jed Whitford wrote: > > At 01:24 AM 29/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>>> With all of the stress analysis being considered for the airframe, has > >>>> anyone considered the effect of drilling holes in the main spar or spar > >>>> webs to mount various things such as gear or controls? I suppose it has > >>>> been proven that the gear holes pose no problem, Would anyone have any > >>>> suggestions as to how many or how big or where you can make a hole and > >>>> still stay out of trouble? > > > >>>I recall reading in an text book that when a bending force is applied to > >>>a simple beem, one side is under compression and the other side is >>under > >tensile > > > >> I'm a first year mech engineer and this is part of our statics > >>course. You seem to have misunderstood this. . . . > > > >> It is incorrect to assume that there is no load along > >>the neutral axis. The neutral axis, in the case of an I or box beam lies on > >>the web. . . . > > > >No offense, but this thread seems to be wandering off course. The questioner > >was not asking for the correct theoretical understanding of how stresses in > >the spar compare to the stresses in I-beams, etc., but was asking where is > >the best place to drill holes and how big can they be? A very good question > >in my opinion, so I hope one of you engineering folks will address it. > > > >Mike Taglieri > > > > > Well yes and no. In my initial post i did address this, I said that if your > going to drill holes they should be through this imaginary line called the > neutral axis, I will add however that they should be as small as posible. > However before you go this problem has forces that cause both bending and > shear, this response only counters for the bending. To accurately tell you > were you can and can't drill holes I would need figures and a great deal of > time, I have neither, so perhaps the best thing is that some of you guys > that have KR's in the air explain were' and how big the holes you drilled were. > Jed Whitford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:53:42 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: New GPS I like the speed to 951 Mph. Next time I'm strapped to a Exocet missle, I can tell where I'm going! -- Ross Ed Janssen wrote: > > Netters, > > I see Cabela has a $99.00 GPS (Magellan Pioneer) in their catalog. Tracks > 12 satellites. 100 waypoints. One route with ten legs. Altitude and all > the rest. Speed to 951 mph. Operates 20 hours on 2 AA. > > Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:06:26 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Studying the plans Oscar Zuniga wrote: > I have gone through them hastily (still need to go through slowly and > carefully), but see no reason why a KR couldn't be built from them... > and many have. Definitely NOT for the non-tech type, in my opinion, > because there aren't little "Place tab B into slot A" type of > instructions. If you expect to get a hand-holding type of manual/plans, > look elsewhere. The pix in the manual are black and white, somewhat > vague, very 70's-looking, and there is much to be filled in between the > explanations given. I expect no trouble at all, given the ready > availability of KRNet, the many hundreds of pages of printouts I've > gleaned from you guys' pages on the web, and the invaluable tips and > tricks also from you builders/pilots. Then, when Rick and Ross and Mike > and the rest of you link all the nifty stuff onto the KRNet.org "online > builders' manual", well- what can I say? > > The "Plans", by the way, consist only of two large fold-out blueline > prints, plus a full-size firewall template. I was disappointed, but not > very much, given the comments received on Net. > > I can do this! > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > Oscar, Yep you can! There will be up times and down times, at least there were for me. Now I'm PUMPED, the last year or two with KRNET has really helped me pace myself. Your description of the plans is right on target. If you don't have Tony Bengellis' books, check out www.amazon.com, and look for SportPlane builder. Or order one of the set each time you place a $60.00 or so order with Aircraft Spruce. If you are like me you will spend as much time browsing the ACS and Wicks catalogs as you will browsing the plans in the next few years. Along with the KR manual, the Wicks catalog used to have a section breaking out kit components, this was VERY useful, as it details many items such as the control cable size, and other things not given in the manual. This allows you to purchase all or some of your kit direct from Wicks and or ACS or any other supplier, as you will know what you need to buy. I bought my canopy, sling-seat, control stick, and flap control from Rand, most everything else arrived in small UPS boxes. If you can afford to buy epoxy in larger quantities, do so, there is now a hazardous materials charge of $10-15.00 or so. This adds up if like me you often buy small quantities of epoxy/paint mail order. Instead of worrying about ordering the entire spruce kit, you could just build up your table, and order the 5/8" stock and begin laying out and building your sides. This won't cost too much $$$ and you can order your spar caps (the hard to get stuff) and build in the meantime. Or ask Wicks/ACS if they can ship the 5/8" stock first. When I started there was a long wait for spruce so this might work if it happens again. Your 3/32" plywood is expensive but the shipping costs are disgusting. I paid $50 in 1989 in truck freight for a 4x8 sheet of 3/32 ply that was about $98.00. It weight about 10 ounces...(exaggaration). You will have to laminate your spar caps (most likely), although you can use regular epoxy, I bought HEXEL laminating adheasive. I had never laminated before, so thought the expense was good insurance. I found that this stuff was much thinner than the standard structural adheasive I used for the rest of the wood (HEXEL structural adheasive is similar to T-88). Make lots of Test blocks out of the 5/8" stuff, and I dare you to try to shear the joints. The best I could do was to hammer them and see the wood splinter. Really builds confidence in your wood joints. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:07:40 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: New GPS Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 06:50 AM 10/29/97 -0600, Ed Janssen wrote: > >Netters, > > > >I see Cabela has a $99.00 GPS (Magellan Pioneer) in their catalog. Tracks > >12 satellites. 100 waypoints. One route with ten legs. Altitude and all > >the rest. Speed to 951 mph. Operates 20 hours on 2 AA. > > > >Ed Janssen > > > > Sounds cool! Will be very cool to link to a laptop and have a 13 inch > moving map display! I plan to add all that stuff after it flys. I will > more than likely have only a handheld radio for the first few flights and > after I decide wheather I like it or not then I will add all the whizz bang > cool gizmos! DeLorme has a $125 Tripmate GPS w moving map software. It's terrific in the car, but I wouldn't recommend it for aircraft use. Try flying and rebooting a Laptop at the same time and you will see what I mean. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:11:47 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: 78mm Type 4 crank Steve Bennett wrote: > > both reasons are correct. when the rear drive is done, the t4 should > make a great comeback at gpasc. steve This means I need to order a new catalog... and me with a new 1835cc engine. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:13:43 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals Ed, I haven't looked at solving this yet myself, but I was thinking of preparing aluminum or glass cover strips. At one point velcro came into mind, but it's a long story. -- Ross enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > I'm still prepping the KR-1 I got from Bill Reents, and would like to know if > anyone has any good ideas for a nice cover for the wing gap where the wings bolt > onto the stubs. > > Currently I have 4 rectangular aluminum plates that use 6/32 screws in each > corner. These plates screw onto the upper surfaces of the wings over the > mounting bolt opening holes. > > It appears that duct tape was then applied over the gaps and plates and wrapped > around from the upper surface to the lower surface. > > There are no plates to cover the lower wing surface holes. > > I have three ideas at this point; > > A. Wrap the gaps with clear plastic sheet (top & bottom surfaces), put the > aluminum plates in place (without screws), lay a strip of fiberglass over the > the plastic and plates. Lay on a fairly thick coat of resin. Slap another sheet > of plastic around the entire mess. When cured, trim, drill finish, pray. > > or > > B. Cut a strip of .040 aluminum 5" wide and long enough to cover the entire top > and bottom gap. Glue a thin strip of rubber to one side of it. Attach it to the > top rear surface over the gap, and then gently bend the whole thing into shape > around the leading edge and attach it to the lower rear surface just in front of > the aileron linkage. > > or > > C. Try to find a 5" wide length of some heavy plastic material (like vinyl house > siding) and try to heat/form it to the leading edge shape and wrap it around the > wing over the gaps. > > Ugh! Anyone have any good ideas about this? At this point I don't want to > permanently glass over the gaps, eventhough that's what ultimately looks the > best. > > Thanks guys. > Ed Newbold > Columbus, OH > > P.S. Taxi time this weekend, Ed J! :o) ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #152 *****************************