From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 1997 5:15 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #162 krnet-l-digest Saturday, November 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 162 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 10:35:37 -0500 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Cutting KR in half for real MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > I know this thread has been in jest, but I've been toying with cutting a KR > in half in the literal sense. As I've mentioned here before, I'm having a > hard time finding a place to build, and even if I could build a plane in my > apartment, I'd have a hell of a time getting it out, since the tailfeathers > would prevent it from being carried through a normal doorway (not to mention > down flights of stairs). > > Since a long tapered splice is considered to be as strong as the wood itself, > however, could the rear end of the boat be sawn-off with suitable tapers and > epoxied on again after the plane was removed from the workshop? . Mike, Although what you suggest might be a solution, I don't think its the best solution. The KR is hard enough to build without introducing more problems. I would put my effort into trying to find a better place to build nearby. Ask people and see what you find. Ask at a nearby airport. Best of luck! (PS I'm starting mine in a small basement, then 1 car garage. Basement is working great) Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 11:19:20 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: Plywood? Just checked Aircraft Spruce's web page to see how expensive plywood is these days. I was surprised that there are eight different varieties shown(except as noted prices are for 3/32in): 90deg Domestic Mahogany $118/4x8 90deg Domestic Birch $78/4x8 45deg Domestic Mahogany $184/4x8 45deg Domestic Birch $156/4x8 Finnish Birch $29/50"x50" Okoume Plywood $84/4x8(1/8in) Royal Marine $127/4x8(1/8in) Basswood $63/4x8 I'm curious about the relative merits of these plywoods for skinning the fuselage, especially 90deg vs 45 deg. The 45deg is probably stronger, but is the price difference justified. The Finnish Birch looks like a bargain, but it would double the number of scarf joints required on the fuselage sides due to short sizes available. Unless there is an overwhelming reason to do otherwise, I will probably opt for the 90deg Mahogany to save a little weight. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 08:36:43 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Plywood? At 11:19 AM 11/7/97 -0500, you wrote: 90deg Domestic Mahogany $118/4x8 90deg Domestic Birch $78/4x8 > 45deg Domestic Mahogany $184/4x8 > 45deg Domestic Birch $156/4x8 > Finnish Birch $29/50"x50" > Okoume Plywood $84/4x8(1/8in) > Royal Marine $127/4x8(1/8in) > Basswood $63/4x8 > >I'm curious about the relative merits of these plywoods for skinning the >fuselage, especially 90deg vs 45 deg. I used 90 degree birch because saving $$$ is the prime objective! Janette said she was offering the finish ply in the kits. This is a great question as it seems every builder is faced with this decision and all I got from RR was "I use the finish ply". ____________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine CA http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 23:00:15 -0700 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR: sizing up a project for sale Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 03:17 PM 11/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Mark, > >Maybe my eyesight is not so good but where is the pointer for this > >article?? Went into your construction page too, no luck. > >-- > >Adrian VE6AFY > > Adrian, here is the HTML to issue # 9 and the article in plain text. > > http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kronline9.html > > Shopping for the Partially Built KR. > Hi Mike, Thanks for the help! Interesting is'nt it. - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 13:28:59 -0500 From: Robert Moreland Subject: Re: KR: Cutting KR in half for real If you are tight for space and you want to get on with your project, start by building your wing spars and the fuselage sides then SKIP THE BOAT assembaly. Move on to the tail feathers, they can be build seperately. Get all of your metal work done, and start on the canopy and turtle-deck, you don't really need the boat to build them. Build your fuel tanks so that they can be dropped into place later. Lay out your instrument panel. What you will then have, is a fast-build-kit that takes up very little space. When there is nothing left to do, then build your boat in a rented space, put it altogether and go fly. I am doing it this way but for a different reason. I understand myself enough to know that I am very good at starting projects but finishing them always takes too much time because I get bored. If I delay the construction steps that are the easiest and the most exciting, (i.e. the boat) I can make completion the most exciting part instead of having a long list of details at the end. I don't want a boat staring me in the face for the next 2, 3 or five years. Robert Moreland ranland@worldnet.att.net smithr wrote: > > MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > > > I know this thread has been in jest, but I've been toying with cutting a KR > > in half in the literal sense. As I've mentioned here before, I'm having a > > hard time finding a place to build, and even if I could build a plane in my > > apartment, I'd have a hell of a time getting it out, since the tailfeathers > > would prevent it from being carried through a normal doorway (not to mention > > down flights of stairs). > > > > Since a long tapered splice is considered to be as strong as the wood itself, > > however, could the rear end of the boat be sawn-off with suitable tapers and > > epoxied on again after the plane was removed from the workshop? . > > Mike, > Although what you suggest might be a solution, I don't think its the > best solution. The KR is hard enough to build without introducing more > problems. I would put my effort into trying to find a better place to > build nearby. Ask people and see what you find. Ask at a nearby airport. > Best of luck! (PS I'm starting mine in a small basement, then 1 car > garage. Basement is working great) > > Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 14:07:35 -0500 (EST) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KRNet on CD-ROM (and such) In a message dated 97-11-07 02:44:34 EST, Oscar wrote: << (HUGE snip) ..What I have in mind here is in RE: the thread about the Rutan stuff on CD-ROM, and how cool it would be to do the same with KR stuff, for Netters. Only catch is, if we do this, I get to design the labels. >> You know folks, I was liking this idea more and more until I got to the bottom of the post to the part about Oacar getting to design the labels...I thought he was using his throne for "library time"...now it would seem he has a drawing table there too. I gotta see this "work space" :-) Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 11:44:57 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: KRNet on CD-ROM (and such) >In a message dated 97-11-07 02:44:34 EST, Oscar wrote: > ><< (HUGE snip) ..What I have in mind here is in RE: the thread about the >Rutan stuff on CD-ROM, and how cool it would be to do the same with KR >stuff, for Netters. > > Only catch is, if we do this, I get to design the labels. >> > > >You know folks, I was liking this idea more and more until I got to the >bottom of the post to the part about Oacar getting to design the labels...I >thought he was using his throne for "library time"...now it would seem he has >a drawing table there too. I gotta see this "work space" :-) > >Randy Stein That's a good one, Randy. ;) Wonder if it is electric and all too. :) Robert Covington (Hey, Oscar. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 12:49:24 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Revmaster Page The Revmaster page is back up if anyone cares. http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/rev.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 13:41:42 -0800 From: hjfine@wave.net Subject: Re: KR: Dallas KR At 06:07 PM 11/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 07:34 PM 11/5/97 -0600, you wrote: >>I must have missed the post about the KR for sale in Dallas, but isn't OR a >>long way to drive to look at it? I live East of Dallas, but work in >>Dallas. If it would help, give me the info, I'll contact the guy and burn >>some film on it. I have a roll I need to finish anyway. I'll scan the pix >>and email the files to you. >> >>What a deal! If I can help, just let me know how to contact the guy and >>I'll work something out. It might take a few days, but probably less time >>than a trip from OR, and a lot cheaper! >> >>Kerry Miller >>Royse City, TX >> >>Sole owner of half of a KR2... >>Hi Kerry: Thanks for the offer to check out the kr in Dallas. I'd really >appreciate it if you would do just that for me. I requested all the info >from the owner. He said that he was swamped with work right now. So this >weekend he would email everything he could. When he does, I'll pass along >all to you. As of now, I don't know his name or phone. He did confirm that >it is a complete kit for $2000! If it checks out ok, I'm prepared to drive >down, rent a trailer, and tow it back with my pickup. Roundtrip it's about >3200miles. I can't think of a better way to do it for the money. Always >open to suggestions tho. Thanks again Kerry, I'll be in touch. Hank. >> >>Hi Kerry, The owner of the 'boat' in Dallas just emailed me his name and phone #. If you are still willing to check it out, please email me with your email address, and I'll email the info to you. Many Thanks. Hank. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 19:50:49 -0600 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: Cutting KR in half for real Robert Moreland wrote: > > If you are tight for space and you want to get on with your project, > start by building your wing spars and the fuselage sides then SKIP THE > BOAT assembaly. Move on to the tail feathers, they can be build > seperately. Get all of your metal work done, and start on the canopy > and turtle-deck, you don't really need the boat to build them. Build > your fuel tanks so that they can be dropped into place later. Lay out > your instrument panel. > > What you will then have, is a fast-build-kit that takes up very little > space. When there is nothing left to do, then build your boat in a > rented space, put it altogether and go fly. > > I am doing it this way but for a different reason. I understand myself > enough to know that I am very good at starting projects but finishing > them always takes too much time because I get bored. If I delay the > construction steps that are the easiest and the most exciting, (i.e. the > boat) I can make completion the most exciting part instead of having a > long list of details at the end. > > I don't want a boat staring me in the face for the next 2, 3 or five > years. > > Robert Moreland > ranland@worldnet.att.net > > smithr wrote: > > > > MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > I know this thread has been in jest, but I've been toying with cutting a KR > > > in half in the literal sense. As I've mentioned here before, I'm having a > > > hard time finding a place to build, and even if I could build a plane in my > > > apartment, I'd have a hell of a time getting it out, since the tailfeathers > > > would prevent it from being carried through a normal doorway (not to mention > > > down flights of stairs). > > > > > > Since a long tapered splice is considered to be as strong as the wood itself, > > > however, could the rear end of the boat be sawn-off with suitable tapers and > > > epoxied on again after the plane was removed from the workshop? . > > > > Mike, > > Although what you suggest might be a solution, I don't think its the > > best solution. The KR is hard enough to build without introducing more > > problems. I would put my effort into trying to find a better place to > > build nearby. Ask people and see what you find. Ask at a nearby airport. > > Best of luck! (PS I'm starting mine in a small basement, then 1 car > > garage. Basement is working great) > > > > Bob Smith Glad to see others share my piecemeal method for KR construction. It took me two years to finish off the interior of my shop and during that time I was very eager to begin work on my plane. Because metal is my medium at work (machinist), the brackets and bellcranks accumulated rapidly. The pulleys are made of 6061T6 billet but I don't know if they will end up in the plane yet. The rudder pedals and the rudder bars were done at work as well. I coundn't resist not buying the bolt, control cable, and turnbuckle kits from Wicks so I could measure the exact size to drill all the holes in the parts. Now I have a bunch of stuff stashed in the cabinets and the wood came a couple of weeks ago. Alot of this could be done at a table with a small vise, a hand drill, hacksaw and a couple of files, except for the welding. I am not sure if I would weld in an appartment if it had carpet! Just finnished the little room for my hot water heater and compressor this week and the last project for the shop will be a cuppola on the roof to exhaust the epoxy fumes and then it's glue time. You can do alot in production of a plane and not need very much space for a long time and it will be a very rewarding journey until the time comes to build big things. Try it, you will like it. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 19:11:48 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Plywood? Patrick Might want to check Wicks catalog. I think they might be alittle cheaper. John F. Esch Salem, OR Patrick Flowers wrote: > Just checked Aircraft Spruce's web page to see how expensive plywood > is > these days. I was surprised that there are eight different varieties > shown(except as noted prices are for 3/32in): > > 90deg Domestic Mahogany $118/4x8 > 90deg Domestic Birch $78/4x8 > 45deg Domestic Mahogany $184/4x8 > 45deg Domestic Birch $156/4x8 > Finnish Birch $29/50"x50" > Okoume Plywood $84/4x8(1/8in) > Royal Marine $127/4x8(1/8in) > Basswood $63/4x8 > > I'm curious about the relative merits of these plywoods for skinning > the > fuselage, especially 90deg vs 45 deg. The 45deg is probably stronger, > > but is the price difference justified. The Finnish Birch looks like a > > bargain, but it would double the number of scarf joints required on > the > fuselage sides due to short sizes available. > > Unless there is an overwhelming reason to do otherwise, I will > probably > opt for the 90deg Mahogany to save a little weight. > > Patrick > -- > Patrick Flowers > Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 20:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: Willard561@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR Before you use any non certified wood you should run a series of test on it for strength, several years ago (70's or 80's) there were a couple of articles in Sport Aviation on how to build a tester and how to test douglas fir. The problem seems to be compresion fractures in the wood. Bill Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 21:41:26 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR At 08:58 PM 11/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >Before you use any non certified wood you should run a series of test on it >for >strength, several years ago (70's or 80's) there were a couple of articles in >Sport Aviation on how to build a tester and how to test douglas fir. The >problem seems to be compresion fractures in the wood. >Bill Higdon > Yes they talk about it in the EAA publication "Wood" Everyone should read it if they are planning to use FIR! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:11:22 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: KR: paint Fellow netter's, At an airshow this summer in Kentucky I had a chance to talk to a rep. from TEAM. I was checking out the "Airbike" he had brought to the show and we got around to discussing paint. He made the statement that " auto paint has a UV barrier in it already so you don't have to add this layer if you use auto paint". I have not been able to confirm this from any other source. Anyone have any info on this or have any ideas on how to confirm. I am planning on using auto paint and if it's true I may be able to save weight by eliminating the coat applied just for UV protection. Any help appreciated. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 07:27:18 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: paint flesner wrote: > He made the statement that " auto > paint has a UV barrier in it already so you don't have > to add this layer if you use auto paint". I have not > been able to confirm this from any other source. Anyone > have any info on this or have any ideas on how to > confirm. I am planning on using auto paint and if it's > true I may be able to save weight by eliminating the > coat applied just for UV protection. > > Any help appreciated. > > Larry > --------------------------- If it did not have UV protection it would not last more then six months. Keep in mind even paint or varnish with UV protection will eventually degrade. Just my two cents worth. Marvin McCoy Seattle WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - --------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:11:25 -0500 (EST) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings >One long bolt through each pair of fittings, with a compression spacer >between the fittings is in fact stronger than the standard KR method of >using individual bolts What should such a spacer be made of? In one brand of motorcycle using a compression spacer in the rear axle assembly, there have been cases where the assembly became loose and failed because the spacer was not properly hardened. Of course, this involved much higher torque but also a much bigger bolt, so I assume similar problems might apply on the wing-attach fittings. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:11:21 -0500 (EST) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Steven's wing >I have made numerous changes to the design on my project, but I did a lot of >calculation and thinking on each one (and I still worry that I did something >wrong). [snip] >Good luck, but do a LOT of calculations prior to construction. I know this is getting outside of traditional homebuilding topics, but can you recommend texts in which a person can learn to do calculations of this kind? I presume this would be from standard engineering and aerodynamic texts, which are plentiful where I live, but I don't know which, if any, would be amenable to home-study. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: assembly question >I have just noticed that if the header fuel tank is mounted firmly in >place (per plans) then the engine mount bolts are not accessable. As a >matter of fact they are impossible. What is the recommended technique: >bonding the bolts to the forward doubler, using nutplates inside the >compartment between the tank and the doubler and safety-wiring the >bolts from the engine side? Nutplates and safety wire sounds like the natural solution to me, or at least the one that involves the least redesign. However, somewhere in Tony Bingelis' books is the recommendation to never, never, NEVER have a nonremoveable fuel tank, so I was toying with mounting it using piano hinges with removeable wire. However, the nutplates would be a good idea anyway, probably for everything on the engine side of the firewall. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: I'm not a test pilot, I just play one at work In a message dated 97-11-08 02:09:16 EST, you write: << Good to know we know have a qualified test pilot to run flight test questions by. >> Thanks for the congrats, Anton, and you're right, it's a great "job", but I need to clear something up here. I do alot of the flying during our test profiles, but I'm not technically a test "pilot". Credibility and credentials are very important in this field, and I want to make sure y'all know what the extent of mine are! Just to set the record straight (again), I'm not a test pilot, I just play one at work. My current position with the Air Force is F-15E Weapon Systems Officer, that would be the guy in the back seat of the Strike Eagle. I haven't been to "The School", but I will have a waiver based on my education and experience to permit me to perform experimental test flights with the company, sort of a Test Pilot School Equivalency. I've been performing government acceptance test flights and engineering test flights on the latest F-15's coming off the line at "Boeing" for the past two years, and now I'm moving to a position with the company to perform the same duties, but primarily on the F/A-18F "Super Hornet". The latest version of my KR-2S test plan, which I hope to have posted by Thanksgiving, will be a complilation of some of my more recent refinements and comments I've received from some of my test pilot buds who reviewed it for us. It should be pretty good by the time we get to the final draft. Please take a look at it and send any comments you have to me, be they comments on procedure, sequence, format, or punctuation and grammar. Anything that will make this document more usable is enthusiatically solicited! Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO Test plan at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator N415RJ ~35% complete ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 10:15:13 -0700 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR: Steven's wing MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > >I have made numerous changes to the design on my project, but I did a lot of > > >calculation and thinking on each one (and I still worry that I did something > > >wrong). > > [snip] > > >Good luck, but do a LOT of calculations prior to construction. > > I know this is getting outside of traditional homebuilding topics, but can > you recommend texts in which a person can learn to do calculations of this > kind? I presume this would be from standard engineering and aerodynamic > texts, which are plentiful where I live, but I don't know which, if any, > would be amenable to home-study. > > Mike Taglieri Hi Mike, Suggest if you can get a hold of Kitplanes June 1995, p68, Wind Tunnel Caution: Modify at your own risk! This is a good comprehensive article on your question. - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 10:09:44 -0700 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR: paint flesner wrote: > > Fellow netter's, > > At an airshow this summer in Kentucky I had a chance > to talk to a rep. from TEAM. I was checking out the > "Airbike" he had brought to the show and we got around > to discussing paint. He made the statement that " auto > paint has a UV barrier in it already so you don't have > to add this layer if you use auto paint". I have not > been able to confirm this from any other source. Anyone > have any info on this or have any ideas on how to > confirm. I am planning on using auto paint and if it's > true I may be able to save weight by eliminating the > coat applied just for UV protection. > > Any help appreciated. > > Larry > Hi Larry, Yes, it's true. Thats what I used on my KR. I was told it was in the primer. Used Acrylic Urethane Enamel for the finish coat(3) and Epoxy Primer, both are 2 part. Ask your automotive paint supplier which has the UV barrier. If he can't tell you, go somewhere else but, I found most are pretty knowledgeable. Automotive paints are a little more reasonable in price than aviation paints and I find very little difference. You mention "aviation" and right away the price doubles. Everything around my engine is automotive, but all AN hardware, the only thing is that you get a little more viberation in an aircraft. Safety wire everything and adjust accordingly. Cables, etc. should not become loose or wires frayed because of lack of tie wrap, this is just sloppiness. Good luck! - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 09:27:04 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings At 11:11 AM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >>One long bolt through each pair of fittings, with a compression spacer >>between the fittings is in fact stronger than the standard KR method of >>using individual bolts Why couldn't you use the outboard spar cap as the spacer, just realign the WAF's to overlap at the outer spar cap. Or would this weeken the spar? Dave Moore >What should such a spacer be made of? In one brand of motorcycle using a >compression spacer in the rear axle assembly, there have been cases where the >assembly became loose and failed because the spacer was not properly >hardened. Of course, this involved much higher torque but also a much bigger >bolt, so I assume similar problems might apply on the wing-attach fittings. > >Mike Taglieri > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 09:27:35 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings At 11:11 AM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >>One long bolt through each pair of fittings, with a compression spacer >>between the fittings is in fact stronger than the standard KR method of >>using individual bolts Why couldn't you use the outboard spar cap as the spacer, just realign the WAF's to overlap at the outer spar cap. Or would this weaken the spar? Dave Moore >What should such a spacer be made of? In one brand of motorcycle using a >compression spacer in the rear axle assembly, there have been cases where the >assembly became loose and failed because the spacer was not properly >hardened. Of course, this involved much higher torque but also a much bigger >bolt, so I assume similar problems might apply on the wing-attach fittings. > >Mike Taglieri > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 10:35:10 -0700 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR: I'm not a test pilot, I just play one at work EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-11-08 02:09:16 EST, you write: > > << Good to know we know have a qualified test pilot to run flight test > questions by. >> > > Thanks for the congrats, Anton, and you're right, it's a great "job", but I > need to clear something up here. I do alot of the flying during our test > profiles, but I'm not technically a test "pilot". Credibility and > credentials are very important in this field, and I want to make sure y'all > know what the extent of mine are! > > Just to set the record straight (again), I'm not a test pilot, I just play > one at work. My current position with the Air Force is F-15E Weapon Systems > Officer, that would be the guy in the back seat of the Strike Eagle. I > haven't been to "The School", but I will have a waiver based on my education > and experience to permit me to perform experimental test flights with the > company, sort of a Test Pilot School Equivalency. I've been performing > government acceptance test flights and engineering test flights on the latest > F-15's coming off the line at "Boeing" for the past two years, and now I'm > moving to a position with the company to perform the same duties, but > primarily on the F/A-18F "Super Hornet". > > The latest version of my KR-2S test plan, which I hope to have posted by > Thanksgiving, will be a complilation of some of my more recent refinements > and comments I've received from some of my test pilot buds who reviewed it > for us. It should be pretty good by the time we get to the final draft. > Please take a look at it and send any comments you have to me, be they > comments on procedure, sequence, format, or punctuation and grammar. > Anything that will make this document more usable is enthusiatically > solicited! > > Cheers! > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO > Test plan at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator > N415RJ ~35% complete Hi Rick, Suggest you go into http://www.safetydata.com/a90-89a.html and download this handbook it will give a very comprehensive flight test guide. It's called "Amateur-Built Aircraft & Ultralight Flight-Testing Handbook". It's 115 pages long and filled with good information. Your concern about test certification does not apply here. What you learn at work is entirely different for an aircraft you build yourself. You have to be very discriminating in what you hear from work unless someone is versed in the homebuilt area. Good Luck! - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 13:49:14 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings At 09:27 AM 11/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:11 AM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >>>One long bolt through each pair of fittings, with a compression spacer >>>between the fittings is in fact stronger than the standard KR method of >>>using individual bolts > >Why couldn't you use the outboard spar cap as the spacer, just realign the >WAF's to overlap at the outer spar cap. Or would this weeken the spar? > >Dave Moore That's what a lot of guys have done. Just bolt the WAFs on the outer spars in a way that allows the whole thing to be inserted into the WAFs that are bolted to the center spar. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 17:18:44 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > >One long bolt through each pair of fittings, with a compression spacer > >between the fittings is in fact stronger than the standard KR method of > >using individual bolts > > What should such a spacer be made of? > Mike Taglieri I am using a 0.125 wall 4130 steel tubing that I turned on a lathe to the correct length and with square ends. The concern about vibration and hardening may be appropriate, but I don't think so. I think the vibration on a motorcycle axle is potentially worse than the loading on a wing attachment, especially if the motorcycle bolt was not torqued properly. The wing will see a high loading, but not a large number of loading cycles where the loads reverse direction. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 14:22:01 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR I know I asked this before to you Mike but for the benefit of everyone else. What about using D Fir in the boat area only? Of course I will use Spruce in the spars, hor stab, elev, ver fin and rudder. John F. Esch Salem, OR Micheal Mims wrote: > At 08:58 PM 11/7/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Before you use any non certified wood you should run a series of test > on it > >for > >strength, several years ago (70's or 80's) there were a couple of > articles in > >Sport Aviation on how to build a tester and how to test douglas fir. > The > >problem seems to be compresion fractures in the wood. > >Bill Higdon > > > Yes they talk about it in the EAA publication "Wood" Everyone should > read > it if they are planning to use FIR! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 17:21:13 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Steven's wing MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > >I have made numerous changes to the design on my project, but I did a lot of > >calculation and thinking on each one (and I still worry that I did something > >wrong). > [snip] > >Good luck, but do a LOT of calculations prior to construction. > > I know this is getting outside of traditional homebuilding topics, but can > you recommend texts in which a person can learn to do calculations of this > kind? I presume this would be from standard engineering and aerodynamic > texts, which are plentiful where I live, but I don't know which, if any, > would be amenable to home-study. > > Mike Taglieri Modern Aircraft Design by Martin Hollmann, Volume 1 is OK. Volume 2 is not worth the money. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 17:29:27 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: A/C plywood In reference to the recent thread about plywood, I got mine at a place called Harbor Sales, Co Inc. 1401 Russel St, Baltimore Md 1-800-345-1712. They run a small ad in Sport Aviation. Several years ago, the plywood was about 25% cheaper from them than from any of the A/C supplies, plus they shipped it for free. They truck to the major cities near Baltimore (in my case more that 120 miles) and will drop it off at any commercial address, but not a household. The quality was great. Anyone near Baltimore should check them out. Other boating supply houses may be able to do as well. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 16:58:58 -0600 From: khersh Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals Tom Crawford wrote: > Your post about "tinkering" with the VW brings up a question. While > doing the "annual" after my first flight, I noted that the head nuts on > one side were noticeably looser than they should be. How often is one > suppose to check the torque on a VW? On My engine, to check them all, > you have to remove the rocker arm assembly. Tom, i don't know if some has answered this yet as I have been away for a while, but the old VW manuals use to say to check and re-torqe the head bolts (nuts) every 3,000 miles (evey 50 hrs at the 50 mph speed range). I know from 1st hand expierence that if you do NOT do this then expect to be rebuilding an engine; which was what I had to do (1 lesson learned the hard way). later keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 18:41:34 -0600 From: flyer@clas.net Subject: KR: Scanner Awhile back there was a thread about inexpensive scanners. I ordered one from Heartland America 1-800-229-2901. It is a 30 bit 81/2 x 11 flatbed scanner w/600dpi. Cost was $99.99 + 7.95 S&H Works great for me:-) Later, Bruce Cape Girardeau, Mo flyer@clas.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 08:43:26 +0800 From: Jed Whitford Subject: Re: KR: paint At 10:09 AM 8/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >flesner wrote: >> >> Fellow netter's, >> >> At an airshow this summer in Kentucky I had a chance >> to talk to a rep. from TEAM. I was checking out the >> "Airbike" he had brought to the show and we got around >> to discussing paint. He made the statement that " auto >> paint has a UV barrier in it already so you don't have >> to add this layer if you use auto paint". I have not >> been able to confirm this from any other source. Anyone >> have any info on this or have any ideas on how to >> confirm. I am planning on using auto paint and if it's >> true I may be able to save weight by eliminating the >> coat applied just for UV protection. >> >> Any help appreciated. >> >> Larry >> >Hi Larry, >Yes, it's true. Thats what I used on my KR. I was told it was in >the primer. Used Acrylic Urethane Enamel for the finish coat(3) and >Epoxy Primer, both are 2 part. Ask your automotive paint supplier >which has the UV barrier. If he can't tell you, go somewhere else but, >I found most are pretty knowledgeable. Automotive paints are a little >more reasonable in price than aviation paints and I find very little >difference. You mention "aviation" and right away the price doubles. >Everything around my engine is automotive, but all AN hardware, the only >thing is that you get a little more viberation in an aircraft. Safety >wire everything and adjust accordingly. Cables, etc. should not become >loose or wires frayed because of lack of tie wrap, this is just >sloppiness. Good luck! >-- >Adrian VE6AFY >cartera@cuug.ab.ca >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of parts. Thought maybe avaition grade paints would be more flexible than auto paint which is fairly brittle. Jed Whtiford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 08:49:33 +0800 From: Jed Whitford Subject: Re: KR: Steven's wing At 11:11 AM 8/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >>I have made numerous changes to the design on my project, but I did a lot of > >>calculation and thinking on each one (and I still worry that I did something > >>wrong). > >[snip] > >>Good luck, but do a LOT of calculations prior to construction. > >I know this is getting outside of traditional homebuilding topics, but can >you recommend texts in which a person can learn to do calculations of this >kind? I presume this would be from standard engineering and aerodynamic >texts, which are plentiful where I live, but I don't know which, if any, >would be amenable to home-study. > >Mike Taglieri > > > The book I use in my statics/solid mechanics course at uni is called "Mechanics of Materials" by Gere and Timoshenko. It should contain all the info you need, but price is pretty steap, so perhaps someone has a book that they could lend or maybe just put the information in a post. Jed Whitford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 19:00:10 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: A/C plywood At 17:29 11/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >In reference to the recent thread about plywood, I got mine at a place >called Harbor Sales, Co Inc. 1401 Russel St, Baltimore Md >1-800-345-1712. They run a small ad in Sport Aviation. > >Several years ago, the plywood was about 25% cheaper from them than from >any of the A/C supplies, plus they shipped it for free. They truck to >the major cities near Baltimore (in my case more that 120 miles) and will >drop it off at any commercial address, but not a household. The quality >was great. Anyone near Baltimore should check them out. Other boating >supply houses may be able to do as well. >-- >Don Reid >mailto:donreid@erols.com >http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > > Good point Don, boating supply houses carry a lot of items that can be used in KR construction. I'm fortunate to have one about 15 minutes from home. They carry epoxy, fiberglass, etc ... AND the guys that run the store are third generation wood boat builders. I've got some good tips from them. I did'nt tell them I was bulding an airplane untill about the fourth visit though :-) They use and sell a paint that carries the Easypoxy brand. I'm going to take a close look at it next visit. The guy told me it has the UV barrier and can be painted directly on to the epoxy. They use West Sytem epoxy as a wood sealer. They brush it on, sand with 60 grit after curing, then 100 grit, then apply the Easypoxy paint system. Austin Clark KR2S / Subaru Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #162 *****************************