From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 10:17 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #184 krnet-l-digest Friday, December 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 184 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:14:49 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Engine Choices Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 10:17 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Hey Mike, how does the O-235 compare to the O-290? I was in dream-on > mode............. > > If I had the 235 as an option I think I > would do it over any other engine. Its a good one but not cheep! I've heard that you need to be very careful picking the correct model of 0235. Apparently rebuild parts for some are *very* expensive, while parts prices for others are more typical of the lycosaur. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:15:29 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: The video. I just got my KR Gathering video, it's GREAT. I know, I know, capital letters on the net means you are yelling but what the heXXX"?X:?:>?X it's GREAT. Let's put it this way, it's starting to snow but I believe I can heat the garage up enough to mix some resin before it's bedtime. Now that's motivation. Dana Overall KR2 616TJ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:38:26 EST From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: Re: KR: KR questions Hi Mike.. Thanks for the info. I will try it out as soon as I get a chance. I am just beginning to realize how much I don't know and a "mentor" who has been thru it would be great. See you Ron On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:43:46 -0800 David Moore writes: >Ron, >Click on Mike's Web page and click on the map, now where are you?, >click on >your state and it will show you the people who are in your state who >are >building KR's. Not only KR2 but 2s and 1's. >Hope this helps you with your search. > >Dave Moore > > > >At 03:54 PM 12/3/97 EST, you wrote: >> >>On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:34:52 -0800 Micheal Mims > >>writes: >>>At 01:30 PM 12/3/97 EST, you wrote: >>>>Are you a KR driver and if so what is your selection of models? >>>>see you Ron >>>> >>>> >>>Well I wouldn't consider myself a "KR" driver but I have flown one >or >>>two >>>(regular KR2 models) and a plethora of other aircraft. >>> >>>I am building a KR2S with "minor" mods, longer fuselage, larger >tail, >>>less >>>incidence, NACA 23016 airfoil, wider-larger cockpit (its >BIG),scratch >>>built >>>windshield canopy, hotwired wing cores with tri-ply uni glass, 145hp >>>Lycoming, and other "minor" stuff! :o) >>> >>>See it at my web site if you have access. >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>Micheal Mims >>>Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship >>> >>>mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >>>http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >>> >>> >>Wow Michael... I suppose if those mods are minor you could convert >one >>into a Boing 777 before calling it Major mod. I will try to see >your >>progress on the Webb. I am still looking for a local KR person to >look at >>what I have to give ideas of possibilities. >>Keep us posted on your progress Ron >> >> > >David Moore >Turnkey1@MSComm.Com >Hesperia, Calif. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: bvermeul@concentric.net Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel airfoil > >NLFHeads: > >Has anyone discussed with Video Bob about the wind tunnel tests? Got your >ears up Bob? A short clip of the tunnel testing and an overview of the whole >process may make for an interesting Friday evening program item at KRKosh 98! > >Anyone have any thoughts (or flames) to add? > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA > >PS - Steve, the check is in the mail (oh sure) - I was a bad boy and forgot >to send it sooner. The thought of the upcoming Turkey day overpowered me and >I lost focus... > Randy, I've been following the thread with great interest. What has really piqued my interest is the construction of the airfoil. I think a video of Mike Mims hotwiring his wing and then doing the glass layups would also make for interesting video. Maybe I need to make an excuse to get to California. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:23:45 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel airfoil >I know he will be testing for sensitivity to rain and bug guts on the >leading edge with various textured tapes. Ah, why not throw out real bugs into the tunnel airflow stream. ;) Seems more accurate to me. Won't textured tapes be covering more of an area than a bug or bugs would, or will it be small sections of tape? Or is it better to know how much of a difference a whole _bunch_ of bugs is going to make, as textured tape would seem to be emulating. Kind of like flying into a hundred year storm of Locusts. ;) But if it works that way, fine with me. All the better. Then I can actually mount fake trophy bugs out there and still fly well. Maybe mount a few back of the leading edge, and use their wings for stall indicators. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:59:36 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress Saturday the 29th I finally finished glassing all the little fillets and other items that remained on the fuselage and wing stubs. It seems like there are 1000 little jobs that never seem to stop appearing here and there! All of the glass work above the top longeron is now covered with filler (Superfil) and I plan on sanding it all down this weekend (6th and 7th). After all the sanding is done I will apply the last coat of filler to the t-decks and tail feathers and they should be ready for primer. I plan to take the digital camera to the hanger so there should be more pictures up on the site on Sunday night. Well its been a long day so I am going to hit the rack! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:26:54 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: project update - Langford Mark, A project report is not wasted bandwith. Jokes are borderline. So don't apologize! :) Mark Langford wrote: > > KRNetHeads, > > I just finished another sheet in my builder's log and I've only got 1350 > hours in it so far, and I'm half way done. That doesn't sound nearly as > bad as 1500! I'm finishing up my rudder pedals after about 3 weeks of > foolin' around with them. They turned out pretty elegant looking, simpler > and lighter than even the plans version. I'll do a story on them for > KROnline, but suffice it to say that they're dirt simple, and work great > with my size 10 1/2 feet. Some of the savings came from my lack of > fasteners. I designed myself into a corner in which I left no room for > bolts and I screwed up and drilled the rivet holes 3/16" instead of 1/8", > so I used some Tra-Bond (copyright!) that Mark Lougheed sent me a while > back to bond a light support bracket to my already light pedal. It's > supposed to bond aluminum and other metal permanently. We'll see. Looks > an awful lot like JB Weld to me. I should have toe brakes by the end of > the week. > > I made seat backs a few weeks ago out of two layers of 5.85 oz glass on > each side with 4.5lb density 3/8" Clark foam sandwiched in the middle. > Turns out they weigh 1/3 as much as the 1/4" plywood seatback that the > plans call for. Chalk up another few pounds saved by the Lunatic Fringe. > > And I just installed my third sling seat. It wouldn't seem right if I had > only made one or two. > > I'm in the throes of finding some gas filled springs to hold my canopy > open. Managed to spend $10 for a pair from an old Nissan in the junk yard. > They were the most worn out I could find. When I got home and compressed > them on the bathroom scales, each required 80 lbs of force to compress. My > 10 year old Scirocco struts are good for 130 lb each! Needless to say, I > had to find something a little lighter for my 18 pound canopy. Finally > found just what I need at Guden ( http://www.guden.com ). 19.68 inches > extended, 8" stroke, and 20 pounds of force to compress. That ought to be > about right. It's all out there, we just gotta find it... > > As for head-scratchin' time, I start the clock ticking when I go to the > basement to work on the plane. I figure if I weren't scratching my head, > I'd be doing something else more productive, so I ccount it against KR > construction time. I don't count design time at the computer or research > time that I'm not actually in the basement because most people don't have > to do that sort of thing. But I'd be doing people a disservice if I said > it took me 700 hours of actual building time, because they might get the > impression that THEY could build it that fast too. Reminds me of when I > was a VW mechanic at a dealership in Las Vegas. In '81 they had a batch of > bad Diesel Rabbit blocks where the assembly line just got started and they > forgot to flip the blocks upside down to empty the solvent out of the head > bolt holes. When they screamed those head bolts in place to hold the heads > on with their impact wrenches, hydrostatic pressure cracked the block > internally. It only took a few miles to mix the black Diesel oil with the > coolant. As low man on the "heavy line" totem pole, I had the honor of > replacing the blocks on 9 Diesel Rabbits in a row. VW warranty paid 5.5 > hours to replace the block! Yep, remove every single stinkin' piece and > put and bolt them to a new engine block. I'm sure that some guy who'd done > it 1000 times with everything laying right there could do it, but the best > I could ever do after the ninth one was about 10 hours. Just 'cause they > say it can be done that fast, doesn't make it so. > > Sorry for the wasted bandwidth, but it's been kinda quite lately. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:25:47 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR:Retract There are still several KR's out with the retract gear, at least that's my impression. My retract isn't flying yet so don't count me in. rdewees@juno.com wrote: > > On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:52:26 -0800 Micheal Mims > writes: > >At 01:19 PM 12/2/97 EST, you wrote: > > > >>>I surmized the same thing but never saw it written down anywhere. It > >>struck me as odd that the retract was standard and the option was > >fixed > >>gear. With the little plan's speed it would appear that retracts > >would be > >>beneficial if thwy were practical and safe. > > > >The retracts are not an option (or standard equipment)any longer as RR > >doesnt stock the parts to build it, I don't know why they are still in > >the > >plans? It would be nice to trade the 10 or 15 pages of useless > >retract > >information that is in the plans an explain how to do other things, > >like > >size an instrument panel! > > > >Thanks for the info.. Are there any pilots still flying the retracts now > or are they essentially "recalled" because of problems? I don't know > which plans I will be getting when the folks I got the projects get > around to sending them. Do more recent plans or the newsletters tell how > to convert to fixed conventional or tri gear? > Thanks ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:29:15 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Re:Useless retract information in manual Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 06:44 PM 12/2/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Speaking of taking the useless retract information out of the manual . . > >. let's get a $999 computer and put the plans (those multi-printed, > >torn, drawn years ago, almost totally accurate drawings) on paper using > >CAD. Let's fix the manual - take out the confusing drawings/info that > >don't match the plans - put in detailed information that's correct. > > There is a group that tried to do this FOR FREE and I can tell you it just > aint gona happen! RR is not interested,..period!! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship Been there done that... to find out more Click HERE (x) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:45:46 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Locating other builders Mike, One of these days I will get around to putting a link to your map...Geez.. Bad Bad KRNET administrator! (Wack) -- Sound of KRNET admin hitting the back of his wrists with 1/4" spruce aileron spar material. - --Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 07:47 AM 12/4/97 PST, you wrote: > >Yep- that's how I found Paul Martin and his KR-2 project, before I even > >knew about KRNet. That little map thingie is pretty cool... Thanks, > >Mike > > > >Oscar Zuniga > >Medford, Oregon > > Yea it is pretty cool and I wish I could take credit for its design but It > was done by a KRnetter about a year ago (maybe more) by the name of Carlos > Sa. He passed it on when he signed off the KRnet because it proved a useful > tool in locating builders and flyers. I really need to update it so if your > a builder and or flyer see if your on the map, if not and you want to be > send me the info. The map is located at: > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/krmap.html > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:53:45 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Hi All! Hi all, Remember some of you from AOL. Great job here!! My project is coming along slow but sure (KR2S). It will be powered with an EA81 Turbo MPFI with a Swag Aero ECM conversion. Most likely will be going with the blueprints for the Swag PSRU as well as it seem to be the only one internally lubricated as well. (Turbo oil systems are selfish and do not like to be shared). Thanks for your info and I hope to share as well. VBRGDS Marty I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:31:28 +0100 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: KR: KR2S drawings Do yo think is quite normal that I've sent a fax to Jeanette asking infomation to buy the KR2-S drawings one week ago, and I've not yet received anything? The fax number I've used is (+01)-714-890-1658 (found on http://www.fly-kr.com) ciao, Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it Phone: +39-2-43889077 Fax: +39-2-43888431 MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:03:02 -0500 From: t48715@twobit.dehavilland.ca (Kevin Oickle) Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel airfoil Robert Covington wrote: "...Ah, why not throw out real bugs into the tunnel airflow stream. ;) Seems more accurate to me. Won't textured tapes be covering more of an area than a bug or bugs would, or will it be small sections of tape? Or is it better to know how much of a difference a whole _bunch_ of bugs is going to make, as textured tape would seem to be emulating..." Robert, There are probably a couple of reasons why Dr. Selig will not throw real bugs at the wind tunnel model: - What Selig what's to do is determine the 2 dimensional Cl (lift), Cm (pitching moment), and Cd (drag) of the airfoil. So what he needs to do is ensure that whatever "imperfections" he does to the airfoil to simulate the bugs, he does it the same all along the span of the model. - Being a scientist, he'll also want to quantify the imperfections that he does, so that he can document them and others can understand, compare, and repeat the tests if necessary. - Lastly, the owners of the wind tunnel probably wouldn't let him make that kind of a mess in their tunnel!!! Hope this helps ? Kevin - --- Kevin B. Oickle Phone: (416) 375-7634 (W) de Havilland Inc. - DASH 8-400 FAX: (416) 373-7361 (W) Stability & Control Group e-mail: koickle@dehavilland.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:02:51 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Re: KR2S drawings > From: Michele Bucceri > To: KR-NET > Subject: KR: KR2S drawings > Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 11:31 AM > > Do yo think is quite normal that I've sent a fax to Jeanette asking > infomation to buy the KR2-S drawings one week ago, and I've not yet > received anything? > > The fax number I've used is (+01)-714-890-1658 (found on > http://www.fly-kr.com) > > ciao, > Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) not abnormal at all. It took over 2 weeks to get the drawings once I sent the check. Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH PS I'll be in New Orleans this weekend . Any builders down there? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:20:25 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: Re: nlf Steve, I'm located a few miles south of Taylorville which is SE of Springfiled. Ed J At 07:28 AM 12/4/97 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Ed Janssen wrote: > >> I admit that I haven't been following this wind tunnel thing too closely, >> but is there a chance in getting to see this operation? I'm pretty close to >> the U of I campus. Anyone know? >> >> Ed Janssen > >Ed, > >I looks like we are five or six weeks from getting the wind tunnel time >for the evaluations. There shouldn't be any problem in monitoring some >of the tests. As I understand it the tests will be run over about a >weeks time. I plan on being there for part of the tests. > >Where are you located? I pass through Urbana atleast two or three times >a month. > >Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:55:03 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: KR2S drawings >Do yo think is quite normal that I've sent a fax to Jeanette asking >infomation to buy the KR2-S drawings one week ago, and I've not yet >received anything? > >The fax number I've used is (+01)-714-890-1658 (found on >http://www.fly-kr.com) > >ciao, >Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) > >-- >MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB >Michele Bucceri >E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it >Phone: +39-2-43889077 >Fax: +39-2-43888431 >MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele, I would also check your fax log to make sure it transmitted well.It is possible that she still got a garbled fax. I was just reading an article a publisher wrote about overseas faxes to the US, and he says it is a good idea to follow up your fax with a brief phone call sometimes. Other than that, she will probably take a little longer than a week to get anything out to you I think. ;) Good Luck. Good plane choice! Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:30:04 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: Tailfeathers OK, to get my feet wet(figuratively I hope) with this composite stuff, I'm gonna' build a horizontal stab and elevator, so I've got a couple questions for the KRNet - I like Mark's idea of using the NACA 63009 symmetric airfoil. For aesthetic('cause I think it would look pretty) reasons, I want to carry the airfoil contour around the airfoil tip(i.e. the tip will look like half the airfoil in plan view). Any downside to that(drag?)? What would be the best sequence for glassing these surfaces since the tips would be a compound curve? I plan to use peelply, if that makes any difference. I'm planning to use a trim tab similar to the plans. Where's a good source for the nyrod? I don't see it in the Wick's or AS catalogs. I'm not wild about using nyrod, but I don't want to use electric trim either. Does anyone have a better suggestion to manually operate the trim tab? That's enough for now. Thanks in advance! Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:03:12 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: KR2S drawings Robert Covington wrote: > > >Do yo think is quite normal that I've sent a fax to Jeanette asking > >infomation to buy the KR2-S drawings one week ago, and I've not yet > >received anything? > > > >The fax number I've used is (+01)-714-890-1658 (found on > >http://www.fly-kr.com) > > > >ciao, > >Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) > > > > Michele, I would also check your fax log to make sure it transmitted > well.It is possible that she still got a garbled fax. I was just reading an > article a publisher wrote about overseas faxes to the US, and he says it is > a good idea to follow up your fax with a brief phone call sometimes. You might also try an email to pilot@fly-kr.com (also from the KR Homepage). > Other than that, she will probably take a little longer than a week to get > anything out to you I think. ;) Most likely Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:00:30 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR2S drawings At 05:31 PM 12/4/97 +0100, you wrote: >Do yo think is quite normal that I've sent a fax to Jeanette asking >infomation to buy the KR2-S drawings one week ago, and I've not yet >received anything? If you hear anything it will be by snail mail, I don't think RR likes to make pong distance phone calls. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:02:12 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: new link http;//www.ellison-fluid-systems.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:17:14 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Tailfeathers On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Patrick Flowers wrote: > OK, to get my feet wet(figuratively I hope) with this composite > stuff, I'm gonna' build a horizontal stab and elevator, so I've got a > couple questions for the KRNet - > > I like Mark's idea of using the NACA 63009 symmetric airfoil. For > aesthetic('cause I think it would look pretty) reasons, I want to carry > the airfoil contour around the airfoil tip(i.e. the tip will look like > half the airfoil in plan view). Any downside to that(drag?)? > > What would be the best sequence for glassing these surfaces since the > tips would be a compound curve? I plan to use peelply, if that makes > any difference. > Pat, Check out Tony K's web page on teh construction of his Europa. The Europa uses tips like you describe and his web pages are a wealth of information for any one building a composite airplane. A suggestion, for what it is worth, make a 12" span section of your airfoil and finish it to completion. If this is your first composite project this learning experience will give you the confidence to tackle your actual parts. I did this for the NLF wind tunnel airfoil to convince myself that I could build to the tolerances necessary. I modified my procedures based upon what I learned. Much cheaper to scrap a 12" section or two than a complete stab. > I'm planning to use a trim tab similar to the plans. Where's a good > source for the nyrod? I don't see it in the Wick's or AS catalogs. I'm > not wild about using nyrod, but I don't want to use electric trim > either. Does anyone have a better suggestion to manually operate the > trim tab? > > I haven't built my stab yet but I am more than a little afraid of using model airplane supplies like nyrod on a trim tab assembly. I like the arangement used on the Maule. It brings out two sheathed cables that attach to an upper and lower control horn. I am sure other builders will jump on this topic rather quickly, choose the method that you are comfortable with. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:11:34 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Tailfeathers At 09:30 AM 12/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >What would be the best sequence for glassing these surfaces since the tips would be a compound curve? Patrick, the first time I built my horizontal stab I glassed the top then the bottom after cure I then glued a chunk of foam to the tip, shaped it and glassed it as a separate piece using two layers of very light cloth (5oz or less) overlapping onto the top and bottom surface about 1inch. If you plan to glass the top and bottom surfaces along with the tip at the same time you will eventually share your knowledge of every curse word you know with those around you! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:41:21 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Tailfeathers Sorry, URL for Tony K is http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:58:56 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Tailfeathers Steven A Eberhart wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Patrick Flowers wrote: > > > I like Mark's idea of using the NACA 63009 symmetric airfoil. For > > aesthetic('cause I think it would look pretty) reasons, I want to carry > > the airfoil contour around the airfoil tip(i.e. the tip will look like > > half the airfoil in plan view). Any downside to that(drag?)? > > > > What would be the best sequence for glassing these surfaces since the > > tips would be a compound curve? I plan to use peelply, if that makes > > any difference. > > A suggestion, for what it is worth, make a 12" span section of your > airfoil and finish it to completion. If this is your first composite > project this learning experience will give you the confidence to tackle > your actual parts. Good suggestion, although I think I'll include the tip so I can get the feel of glassing that curve. >Much cheaper to scrap a 12" section or two than a complete stab. Yup, although the horiz stab is a pretty inexpensive part to build. A bigger loss would be the emotional trauma of finishing off the perfect stab and then having to toss it into the bin because I screwed up the glassing :( > > I'm planning to use a trim tab similar to the plans. Where's a good > > source for the nyrod? > > I haven't built my stab yet but I am more than a little afraid of using > model airplane supplies like nyrod on a trim tab assembly. I like the > arangement used on the Maule. It brings out two sheathed cables that > attach to an upper and lower control horn. I was thinking more along the lines of using a bowden cable(like a throttle cable) or 32 ga music wire inside a cable sheath. I'm a little concerned about the cable or wire bowing, but it would rarely be under compression(that would be "down" trim). Thanx Steve, Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 16:39:29 +0100 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: Re: KR: KR2S drawings Thanks to everybody, but ... does Jeannette has an e-mail? Michele - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it Phone: +39-2-43889077 Fax: +39-2-43888431 MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 11:12:00 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Tailfeathers Micheal Mims wrote: > > If you plan to glass the top and bottom surfaces along with the tip at the > same time you will eventually share your knowledge of every curse word you > know with those around you! :o) Hee hee... Based on my limited experience with boat glass(just enough to realize that I didn't want to build a boat), that's what I thought. Actually, I was thinking of glassing the tips first using a couple layers of light glass cut on the bias using the masking tape trick show in the manual to limit it to about a one inch overlap. Then glass the rest using peelply. The manual seems to recommend doing the upper surface first, but somewhere I seem to remember a recommendation to do the lower surface first. Then glass the upper with the glass coming all the way around the leading edge, keeping the overlap on the bottom. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 11:20:34 EST From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: Re: KR: Cockpit width/KR questions On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:34:52 -0800 Micheal Mims writes: >At 01:30 PM 12/3/97 EST, you wrote: >>Are you a KR driver and if so what is your selection of models? >>see you Ron >> >> >Well I wouldn't consider myself a "KR" driver but I have flown one or >two >(regular KR2 models) and a plethora of other aircraft. > >I am building a KR2S with "minor" mods, longer fuselage, larger tail, >less >incidence, NACA 23016 airfoil, wider-larger cockpit (its BIG),scratch >built >windshield canopy, hotwired wing cores with tri-ply uni glass, 145hp >Lycoming, and other "minor" stuff! :o) > >See it at my web site if you have access. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > Hi Michael... Still haven't found your map of Kr's yet on the webb but will do so shortly. I had a long discussion with the editor of the KR newsletter on the phone several days ago and his opinion is that the original retract system is minimal and probobly dangerous at best. I don't know if this is shared opinion or not, but liked his idea of the Deihl fiberglass fixed gear of either tri or conventional configuration. He also said that it would run about $2000 to go with the conversion and add hydraulic brakes. Is this a high-end figure and do you know of other options that avoid the dangers of the retract system, get trigear conversion and not add a LOT of cost and weight? Tthanks for your opioion(s) Ron in Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:24:41 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: KR2S drawings Michele, Just called Jeanette for you and she said that they were behind in responding to FAX's and would have her secretrary locate your FAX and call me if she needed any additional information. She did say that most likley the information would be mailed to you :-( For international purchases of KR-2S plans she said that you would need to send her $285 USD in the form of an international money order drawn on a New York bank such as American Express, Barkley, etc. When she receives the funds in US Dollars she will express mail the plans. Hope this helps, Steve Eberhart On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Michele Bucceri wrote: > Do yo think is quite normal that I've sent a fax to Jeanette asking > infomation to buy the KR2-S drawings one week ago, and I've not yet > received anything? > > The fax number I've used is (+01)-714-890-1658 (found on > http://www.fly-kr.com) > > ciao, > Michele (KR2S dreamer from Italy) > > -- > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB > Michele Bucceri > E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it > Phone: +39-2-43889077 > Fax: +39-2-43888431 > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:12:06 -0500 From: smithr Subject: KR: aluminum channel Does anyone know of a supplier of 1" 6061 t6 "c" channel without tapered edges for KR elev hinges. (need to have the full 1" for scintered bearings) The stuff I got from Wicks is extruded and tapered and I'd rather not use it. Does Jeanette sell channel stock or just premade hinges? While I'm on the subject of aluminum, is OK to use any aluminum stamped 6061 t6 in the KR regardles of its source? or does the quality vary? Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:16:16 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Cockpit width/KR questions At 11:20 AM 12/5/97 EST, you wrote: add hydraulic brakes. Is this a high-end figure and do you know of other >options that avoid the dangers of the retract system, get trigear >conversion and not add a LOT of cost and weight? > Tthanks for your opioion(s) >Ron in Atlanta > I don't know what the current price of the DD gear is but if I recall it didn't add that much weight and hardly any speed was lost converting to the DD taildragger system. I was able to score the gear legs on my KR for $50. I have spent about $25 to rebuild them and of course I will spend another $500 to $600 on wheels and brakes. I priced out the DD gear and compared the cost to doing it myself and the end result was that I could not duplicate the DD gear system and save any money. His gear setup is reasonably priced. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:45:17 EST From: BSHADR Subject: Re: KR: The video. In a message dated 97-12-05 06:02:59 EST, Dana wrote: << I just got my KR Gathering video, it's GREAT. >> Remember folks...$$$ to KNet operations for 1998 are donated for each video tape you order direct from Video Bob AND mention KRNet. Your costs are no different and we can help Ross enlarge our KRNet hot tub or buy a carrying case for our new digital camera with the funds. Think of it as our vewy own "Club Net." Besides, I'm sure his wife will enjoy the constant KRNet "time share" guest who drop by each week. Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 11:55:57 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: aluminum channel At 13:12 12/5/97 -0500, you wrote: .. >While I'm on the subject of aluminum, is OK to use any aluminum stamped > 6061 t6 in the KR regardles of its source? or does the quality vary? > >Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY > > Hehehe...this reminds me that a "stop" sign my son acquired is stamped 6061 T6 in back. Things to watch out for. 1) Scratches are a 'bad thing' 2) Has the fatigue life been compromised by cyclic stresses in a previous life? 3) Corrosion pits (enough time for those later... Otherwise it's all the same. Brian brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:45:18 EST From: BSHADR Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel airfoil In a message dated 97-12-05 07:15:37 EST, Bob wrote: << I've been following the thread with great interest. What has really piqued my interest is the construction of the airfoil. I think a video of Mike Mims hotwiring his wing and then doing the glass layups would also make for interesting video. Maybe I need to make an excuse to get to California. >> Heck...I'd pay an admission fee just to watch that "dog & pony" show happen. Bring a sweater though - it is winter out here (in the mid 60's) and we may finally see some drizzle... :-) Randy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:45:20 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: NLF wind tunnel airfoil dreams In a message dated 97-12-05 09:58:41 EST, Steve wrote: << I don't know if Dr. Selig would be interrested but it might be nice if he would be able to give a talk at KRKosh 98 about the new airfoil. We should be able to get enough contributors to cover his expenses. Would make for some interresting discussions about KR aerodynamics with a person of Dr. Selig's stature present. >> Steve: I'll ponder that one...it does sound good. E-mail me privately after you talk with Dr. Selig. See if he can do it Friday night, 9/18/97. Heck, since that is my birthday anyhow, if would make a super "party" for all KR'ers to enjoy. If we can hash out the costs estimates to make this happen, I may be able to get sponsorship from some vendors. What do the rest of you guys think? If this topic is too far out of line for KRNet, flame me (and I may then stop it - - but no promises). Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:07:31 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Cockpit width/KR questions Ron, You also might want to contact Dan Diehl, he owns the company that makes the fiberglass gear legs for the KR. Try: http://www.cuttingedge-tech.com/diehl/ or his phone is 918-299-4445. The tail dragger version he lists at $485.00 (USD), and the tri-gear is an additional $485.00 (USD). He also lists wing skins for the KR2 and 2S at $1500.00. These prices are as of April '97 Dave Moore At 11:20 AM 12/5/97 EST, you wrote: > >On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:34:52 -0800 Micheal Mims >writes: >>At 01:30 PM 12/3/97 EST, you wrote: >>>Are you a KR driver and if so what is your selection of models? >>>see you Ron >>> >>> >>Well I wouldn't consider myself a "KR" driver but I have flown one or >>two >>(regular KR2 models) and a plethora of other aircraft. >> >>I am building a KR2S with "minor" mods, longer fuselage, larger tail, >>less >>incidence, NACA 23016 airfoil, wider-larger cockpit (its BIG),scratch >>built >>windshield canopy, hotwired wing cores with tri-ply uni glass, 145hp >>Lycoming, and other "minor" stuff! :o) >> >>See it at my web site if you have access. >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Micheal Mims >>Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship >> >>mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >>http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >> >> >Hi Michael... Still haven't found your map of Kr's yet on the webb but >will do so shortly. I had a long discussion with the editor of the KR >newsletter on the phone several days ago and his opinion is that the >original retract system is minimal and probobly dangerous at best. I >don't know if this is shared opinion or not, but liked his idea of the >Deihl fiberglass fixed gear of either tri or conventional configuration. >He also said that it would run about $2000 to go with the conversion and >add hydraulic brakes. Is this a high-end figure and do you know of other >options that avoid the dangers of the retract system, get trigear >conversion and not add a LOT of cost and weight? > Tthanks for your opioion(s) >Ron in Atlanta > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:18:23 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: aluminum channel Bob, If you have "c" channel that is webbed it is stronger than the kind that the plans call for. As for 6061-T6, it is a corrosion resistant (alcad) aluminum used in aircraft construction where weather or corrosion is present, for what we are using 6061-T6 for it is plenty strong. Dave Moore At 01:12 PM 12/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a supplier of 1" 6061 t6 "c" channel without tapered >edges for KR elev hinges. (need to have the full 1" for scintered >bearings) The stuff I got from Wicks is extruded and tapered and I'd >rather not use it. Does Jeanette sell channel stock or just premade >hinges? > >While I'm on the subject of aluminum, is OK to use any aluminum stamped > 6061 t6 in the KR regardles of its source? or does the quality vary? > >Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #184 *****************************