From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 12:54 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #186 krnet-l-digest Monday, December 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 186 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:00:30 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Tailfeathers RE: Horiz Stab. Do like I did. Glass the Horiz stab, BEFORE you mount it to the fuselage, then you can turn it over and do the bottom as the top. -- Ross Patrick Flowers wrote: > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > > If you plan to glass the top and bottom surfaces along with the tip at the > > same time you will eventually share your knowledge of every curse word you > > know with those around you! :o) > > Hee hee... Based on my limited experience with boat glass(just enough > to realize that I didn't want to build a boat), that's what I > thought. Actually, I was thinking of glassing the tips first using a > couple layers of light glass cut on the bias using the masking tape > trick show in the manual to limit it to about a one inch overlap. Then > glass the rest using peelply. > > The manual seems to recommend doing the upper surface first, but > somewhere I seem to remember a recommendation to do the lower surface > first. Then glass the upper with the glass coming all the way around > the leading edge, keeping the overlap on the bottom. > > Patrick > -- > Patrick Flowers > Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:03:31 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: The video. What a chuckle! I've got to get the video too. BTW I got the info on KR lapel pins. I will update as soon as I have had a chance to read it all. My computer is barfing these days. Can't print, nor do anything with WORD or anything else. It could be a virus, or it could be some upgrades to the Win95 kernel I downloaded from Microsoft. Hmm.. at any rate, email still works. BSHADR wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-05 06:02:59 EST, Dana wrote: > > << I just got my KR Gathering video, it's GREAT. >> > > Remember folks...$$$ to KNet operations for 1998 are donated for each video > tape you order direct from Video Bob AND mention KRNet. Your costs are no > different and we can help Ross enlarge our KRNet hot tub or buy a carrying > case for our new digital camera with the funds. Think of it as our vewy own > "Club Net." Besides, I'm sure his wife will enjoy the constant KRNet "time > share" guest who drop by each week. > > Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:06:39 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: aluminum channel I get 6061-T6 stamped material occasionally at my local hardware store here in Oregon. Some of the stuff is non stamped in the rack, but I expect the stuff that is stamped 6061-T6 is the same quality as what you get from ACS. There is a big aluminum plant on the Columbia River near Portland, I think all the hydroelectric projects gave us cheap power so that we could make aluminum for WWII. At any rate I expect that the stuff I get is probably from one of the sources ACS uses, but I don't know for sure. -- Ross brian whatcott wrote: > > At 13:12 12/5/97 -0500, you wrote: > .. > >While I'm on the subject of aluminum, is OK to use any aluminum stamped > > 6061 t6 in the KR regardles of its source? or does the quality vary? > > > >Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY > > > > > > Hehehe...this reminds me that a "stop" sign my son > acquired is stamped 6061 T6 in back. > > Things to watch out for. > 1) Scratches are a 'bad thing' > 2) Has the fatigue life been compromised by cyclic > stresses in a previous life? > 3) Corrosion pits (enough time for those later... > > Otherwise it's all the same. > Brian > brian whatcott > Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:08:19 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: aluminum channel Wicks Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce both sell the stock. Wicks can also sell the complete hinge assemblies (or used to.) That is what I did, however there is no detail in the plans on the smaller hinge which is on the tapered portion of the elevator. I staggered the bolt holes based on a photo of the completed hinges I observed. -- Ross smithr wrote: > > Does anyone know of a supplier of 1" 6061 t6 "c" channel without tapered > edges for KR elev hinges. (need to have the full 1" for scintered > bearings) The stuff I got from Wicks is extruded and tapered and I'd > rather not use it. Does Jeanette sell channel stock or just premade > hinges? > > While I'm on the subject of aluminum, is OK to use any aluminum stamped > 6061 t6 in the KR regardles of its source? or does the quality vary? > > Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:35:22 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Improved KR I'm thinking a Lancair is a KR on steroids for those with large checkbooks. - --Ross Tom Andersen wrote: > > I am not aware of any other planes > > similar to the KR except maybe the Pulsar. > > > > Ron Lee > > I think they call it the Pulsar because after they tell you how much the > kit costs, they have to check your pulse. For all the fiberglass parts > in the kit, no time savings over a KR is noticed either. > -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 07:18:04 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: test test ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:22:41 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Re: KR-1s >Does anyone build KR-1s anymore? It seems like everyone's building 2-place >models now. I just ordered the KR-1 plans today, but haven't ruled out the >2S. >I just have to decide between no compromise toy, and usable aircraft. >As far as the decision between the no compromise toy & usable >aircraft.........we're guys, so 1 or 2 seats, its a toy. The decision to be >made is what to tell the wife or girlfriend it is. I'm not sure why a KR-1 isn't a usable aircraft if a one-person plane is enough. I never considered it because I'd like to at least take a friend up for a sightseeing ride occasionally (or carry lots of luggage on the right seat if I were going cross-country alone). However, I assume the KR-1 would be the least weight for the horsepower, so it would perform marvelously, and it's generally said that the first version of a design usually has the best handling, before they start bulking it up (this is the general rule, although I'm not sure it would apply to a plane "designed" as casually as the KR). Finally, you could presumably put the same fixed gear on a KR-1 that the 2's have now if you didn't want the archaic retracts. What seems to be the worst of both worlds is when people build 2's and 2S's so porky that they can't safely carry more than one, which sadly seems to happen fairly often. Concerning "significant other problems," I know a guy who just bought a very large apartment with his lover partly so he could build a BD-5 (!), but the lover is extremely reluctant, which makes perfect sense to me: why should someone put up with years and years of cost, mess, and strain on the relationship if he's never gonna get a chance to go up in the damn plane? If a spouse has any possible interest in riding someday, I'd build the 2 or 2's. I'm told that as it begins to look more and more like a proper kind of plane spousal enthusiasm grows, so I wouldn't judge from the enthusiasm the day the wood arrives. . . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 01:14:36 CDT From: dboll@newburg.ndak.net Subject: RE: KR: Phoenix Ross I will be in Phoenis for 4 weeks over Christamass allso . I'm from North Dakota and will have my wings for my kr2 with me. My wife and I travel with a 5th wheel trailer and will say at our daughter's.I will have my air compressor and all my air tools with and plan on doing the filling and painting on the wings when in the Phoenix area. We will be traviling in Jan to ST. Perersburg Fl. again with kr parts and tools and spend 2 mounths at our sons. If any interested party wants to get together they can contact me at 602-8727264 inAZl or813-3446142 Fl. I will be going of fthe net Dec 10 but rback on Jan 15 at MSB344@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:25:52 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Dedication! >From: dboll@newburg.ndak.net >Ross I will be in Phoenis for 4 weeks over Christamass allso . I'm from North Dakota and will have my wings for my kr2 with me. My wife and I travel with a 5th wheel trailer and will say at our daughter's.I will have my air compressor and all my air tools with and plan on doing the filling and painting on the wings when in the Phoenix area. We will be traviling in Jan to ST. Perersburg Fl. again with kr parts and tools and spend 2 mounths at our sons. Hey, Netters- Is this builder dedicated, or what? Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:40:01 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: Larger Flap then plans - ------------ I was wondering what problems I might get into by making the flaps larger then shown on the plans. The plans show a flap that is about six inches wide or deep. I think Mark Langford has a picture of a flap that appears to be hinging off of the rear spar. This looks like a better way to do it since the flap would be larger and the hinge is not out in the open. Since I am going with the Diehl gear I am high enough off of the ground and there is room for larger flaps. But I wonder what effect a larger flap would have on the flying or landing characteristics?? And also what other problems or changes will need to be made on the plane. Since so many times when you change one thing it precipitates a number of other changes. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:02:54 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: neat site http://www.preciseflight.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:25:26 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: 2180 VW parts for sale Jean Veron, the owner of N4DD, is parting out his 2180. It developed a crack in the block, and he's upgrading to an O-200. Here's what he's got to sell: >Basically I will be offering everything from the >firewall forward. The case is not repairable and I have already sold >the cylinders, heads, prop and spinner. I still have everything else >for a 2180 VW. Acessory case, engine mount, 4 into 1 exhaust, Revflow >carb and cowling. Everything is 1/2 new ( 1991 ) prices from the >Great Planes catalog. I will not split the Scatt stroker crank, >Porche rods and force one hub and prop flange since they are a >matched balanced set. You can get in touch with Jean at YCGB97A@prodigy.com Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:11:07 -0800 From: "Don Rideout" <19don26@castles.com> Subject: KR: Re: Re: Admin Message & Suggestions If you have enough energy to build an airplane, you ought to have enough to hit the delete button on some thing that bugs you. Tolerance guys every group has its share of weirdos, I offer this post as proof. I am most happy listening to you guys babble. 19don26@castles.com SeeYa! - ---------- > From: Ron Lee > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Re: Admin Message & Suggestions > Date: Saturday, December 06, 1997 3:51 PM > > > > > >We had one member drop the list due to too many jokes, and non building > >stuff. So although I enjoy jokes/etc, I am trying not to reply to > >every message I see to help keep the bandwidth down. > > > > >Rather than rant about some "bandwidth wasting" posts, which I enjoy, I > >will encourage builders to post KR questions, and KR building status > >reports etc. Hopefully that will keep the signal/noise ratio high > >enough for everyone to be happy with the list. > > > > -- Ross > > May I suggest that folks change the subject to something close to the > contents. > As in many lists, people will read about cake batter, then eventual talk about > the mating habits of porcupines (with a cake batter subject!). > > Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 07:22:23 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress Sports Fans and Flood Victims (its raining in Southern Cali) I put in a good 6 hours today filling and sanding. I am happy to report both t-decks are filled and sanded. I have a few minor areas that will require more filler but for the most part they are ready for primer!. All the glasswork on the stub wings is finally done! Woo Hoo! I trimmed up the last of the root fairing glass this morning. Speaking of root fairings,..I built one using the ideas from Mark Langfords site for the tail area and it came out pretty nice. I brought it home tonight and it is being subjected to 100 degree heat as we speak. Once it has cured all the way I plan to flox it into position. I will cut two 3 X 3 inch access holes in it for access to the upper elevator horn bolt and the cable pulley. I plan to use thin sheet aluminum for panels and tinnerman nuts on the fiberglass, the panels will be held in place with PK screws into the tinnermans. Should work great! I started filling and sanding on the left horizontal stab today but didn't get to carried away because I need to mount the fairing first. Anyway you can see some new pictures at the pages below, just scroll to the bottom. http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/fuselage3.html http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/tail.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:56:07 EST From: LVav8r Subject: KR: E-Mail to RR was KR2S Drawings I sent this to the KRNet a day or two ago and never saw it come back so here it is again. Sorry if you got this twice. In a message dated 97-12-05 22:11:47 EST, you write: << You might also try an email to pilot@fly-kr.com (also from the KR Homepage). >> I once sent an e-mail to them and never got a response. I later called them and inquired about it and was told that the site is maintained by a builder and they didn't find out about my e-mail for a week or two. So the best way to communicate with Jeanette is to use the old-fashioned telephone or snail mail. I've called several times and as long as you call during normal business hours someone will probably be there to take the call. Tom Kilgore Las Vegas, NV LVav8r@aol.com http://members.aol.com/LVav8r/index.html KR-2S 2% complete __I__ _______( X )_______ o/ \o ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:37:01 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: KR Progress Sports Fans and Flood Victims (its raining in Southern Cali) I put in a good 6 hours today filling and sanding. I am happy to report both t-decks are filled and sanded. I have a few minor areas that will require more filler but for the most part they are ready for primer!. All the glasswork on the stub wings is finally done! Woo Hoo! I trimmed up the last of the root fairing glass this morning. Speaking of root fairings,..I built one using the ideas from Mark Langfords site for the tail area and it came out pretty nice. I brought it home tonight and it is being subjected to 100 degree heat as we speak. Once it has cured all the way I plan to flox it into position. I will cut two 3 X 3 inch access holes in it for access to the upper elevator horn bolt and the cable pulley. I plan to use thin sheet aluminum for panels and tinnerman nuts on the fiberglass, the panels will be held in place with PK screws into the tinnermans. Should work great! I started filling and sanding on the left horizontal stab today but didn't get to carried away because I need to mount the fairing first. Anyway you can see some new pictures at the pages below, just scroll to the bottom. http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/fuselage3.html http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/tail.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:00:05 EST From: rdewees@juno.com Subject: Re: KR: landing gear Hi Don .. Thanks for the suggestion. I will try to find the information and ad. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:23:57 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: landing gear Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Don wrote: > >I designed my own gear that is > >similar to the Diehl, but a little heavier and taller for my larger > >plane. > > It was a fair amount of work. > >-- > > Yeah- > > If my perception of Don is correct, this is probably a fairly big > understatement! :o) > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon For someone who has never met me and knows of my work only through my e-mail lies and poor typing skills, I would say that Oscar has it pretty close to correct. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 12:55:42 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Rudder Pedals John, Have you done anything with your Subaru yet? What are chances of getting pictures of the pedal set up? Rich McCall 1518 Holly Lane Junction City, KS 66441 John Roffey wrote: > Austin Clark wrote: > > > > I am getting ready to build my rudder pedals and am having trouble bending > > the tubing according to plans. I am considering a welded fabrication > > either with the tubing or building the thing from aluminum. Would like to > > hear some ideas and suggestions. I built the brake pedals and brackets > > (modification kit from Wicks) this week and they turned out nice. > > > > I could use 1/2" aluminum conduit as the "shaft" welded to 1-1/2" x 1/8" > > aluminum flat stock for the vertical and another piece of 1/2" aluminum > > conduit welded at the top of the flat stock for the "pedal" and fabricate > > poly bearings for the "shaft" and the brake pedals. Any thoughts pro or con? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Austin Clark > > Pascagoula, MS > > > Just finnished with my rudder pedals Austin, and I used 4130 tubing > recommended in the construction manual. I mitered the tubing and welded > it with 4130 tig rod. They are very light and appear to be very strong > and ridgid. My bearings were milled from nylon and I am happy with thier > appearance and weight. The rudder/brake pedals I milled from 6061T6 raw > aluminum 6" stock and this took a lot of lunch time at work but they are > custom and light/strong. > I borrowed the Piper design for my master cylinder mounting by putting > parallel tabs on the 90 degree corners of the drivers side cross tubes > and using Cleveland cylinders with a tang mount. Looks very clean and > turned out to be light. A lot of work though, some of the pictures of > others pedals look to be very light/clean and much simpler, check out > the web sites and you will see a few of the other builders pedals. > John Roffey KR2S/ Subaru > jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:13:10 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: test Weird, it seems that only one out of every 6 post of mine are making it to the net! Did anyone get my progress report? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:10:22 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR: Admin Message >Hello everyone. > >I just caught up on some admin tasks. It looks like I won't be getting >my engine fired up this December... shooting for January. > >Had to upgrade the PC this weekend. Ran out of disk space, so decided >to buy some more. The rest of my family uses it for school etc, so >it got some $$$. > >UPS has been attempting to ship my Terra Transponder, it would have >been just in time, had I been wiring my panel like a good boy, as it >is, I'm behind, so it will just stay in the box a bit longer. End >result, I didn't notice the delay from Terra one bit. At least I'm >assuming that was what is in the box. It needs a signature, and no >one has been home to sign for the package. It's from Chief Aircraft. > >I just added/removed/moved several subscribers so here is the tally: > >KRNET-L-DIGEST 29 Members >KRNET-L 188 Members >-------------------------- >Total 218 Members > >It just occured to me that we might be over 200 KRNET members if I >were to include those that get the digest. I hope you are all getting >somthing out of this. If not send me a post to krnet@krnet.org with >suggestions. > >We had one member drop the list due to too many jokes, and non building >stuff. So although I enjoy jokes/etc, I am trying not to reply to >every message I see to help keep the bandwidth down. > >Rather than rant about some "bandwidth wasting" posts, which I enjoy, I >will encourage builders to post KR questions, and KR building status >reports etc. Hopefully that will keep the signal/noise ratio high >enough for everyone to be happy with the list. > >I will be in Phoenix over Christmas, and if I had any wits, I would >try to get some photos of KR's and builders in the Phoenix area. >One I have in mind is I believe the "Gypsy" KR which appeared in >earlier KR printed newsletters. I will do what I can as time permits. >Drop me a line if you are in the Phoenix area, and I will do my best >to stop by and snap a mugshot of you and your project for KRNET. > > -- Ross >Hey Ross,I'll be in the Phoenix area(Sun City West and Prescott) over the Christmas week too. Where you gonna be and when, maybe we can do a face to face lunch(I'll buy). Give me a shot on my own e-line. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:09:56 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: neat site http://www.preciseflight.com/ I really liked the speedbrakes info at that site. Aren't these also called spoilers? I thought speedbrakes were on the fuselage, like the popular belly board. These speedbrakes probably kill a lot of lift since they pop out of the wing about 40% out on the span. I wonder if small speedbrakes on the stub wings just aft of the main spar on the top only would affect the elevator control too much? I'm considering 2" x 12" speedbrakes for quicker descent without shock cooling, and also to help reduce the "float" that the KR's have in ground effect, thereby reducing landing distances. These would be used all the way down through landing, like a glider. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:16:55 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Larger Flap then plans I like the idea too of hinging the flap off the rear spar. You'll probably get a lot more extra drag than extra lift. How much clearance would you have with the flap down? Since I fly off a grass strip I know that your ground clearance can vary from one bump to the next, and if you hit some washboard, it can cause bouncing. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:38:54 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR: Vortex Generators >Bruce Toscano wrote: >> >> Has anyone used/had experience with/or otherwise will express their >> views on the use of vortex generators? . . . or some form or vortilons? >> (as it would apply to use on a KR2S of course!) > >This is a subject that needs more discussion from the flyers. I have hopes >of trying vortex generators and other boundary layer control ideas, but I >need to get in the air first. This sounds like an exciting area. The >vortex generators can give extra lift at low speed and go on or in front of >control surfaces to increase low speed response. Sport Aviation had an >article about 2 years ago on a Lanceair (I think) that put a thin tape >along the wing span just in front of the area where the airflow would >transition from laminar to turbulent. This caused an increase in airspeed >of several knots. The tape created a very low vortex generator that would >in turn cause the airflow to re-attach in a laminar form. Result, lower >drag. This is what "experimental" means. >-- >Don Reid >mailto:donreid@erols.com >http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > >Try the December issue of Sort Aviation. An article on a Long-EZ altitude record by Jim Price. He used VGs to enhance low speed/ high altitude handling and got a lot of help from our own University of Michigan Department of Aerospace Department on the placement of the VGs on his wing and canard. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com Good article on Prostate Cancer too. So many of us are old farts, we need all the info we can get about thier origin!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 15:45:37 From: Austin Clark Subject: KR: Spouse Approval >I'm told that as it begins to look more and more like a proper kind of plane >spousal enthusiasm grows, so I wouldn't judge from the enthusiasm the day the >wood arrives. . . . > >. > >Mike Taglieri > > That is proving true in my case. Actually she became a little more enthusiastic when she saw the KR's at the gathering. Austin Clark http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 05:23:13 CDT From: dboll@newburg.ndak.net Subject: RE: Re: KR: Admin Message I will be in Sun City Glendale area for 4 weeks over Christmass allso. I'm from N.D. and will have my wings with me so I have somthing to work on during our stay there. Will be traving to St. Pete. Fl. in Jan till March so hope to run into some kr builders . Anyone interested net me in the next few days . Will leave N.D. Dec 10 Don ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:53:32 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: KR2S drawings In a message dated 97-12-07 04:12:14 EST, Tom wrote: << I once sent an e-mail to them and never got a response. I later called them and inquired about it and was told that the site is maintained by a builder and they didn't find out about my e-mail for a week or two. So the best way to communicate with Jeanette is to use the old-fashioned telephone or snail mail. >> KRNetheads: The Website for RR was maintained by Mike Stearns - He is an "ex" KR builder. He parted out his project due to a supposed "financial" problem. Mike told me a couple of years ago that he would print out the RR E-mail messages forward them to RR via fax. I don’t know if this protocol is still followed today though, or if Mike is even involved with the company hosting the site. From my experience, RR is not inclined to return calls or faxes if it is other than a local call. Ask Mike Mims or me how we know. The only time RR talks to me is at KRKosh, and I’m only 40 miles from them! Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA PS - Must be my personality...(or lack of) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:53:22 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Improved KR - Fodder for tought In a message dated 97-12-06 11:45:25 EST, Ron wrote: << If a guy were to ponder this comment, would this possibly be a KR-2S derivative with mods that an unspecified KRNET dude is incorporating with a possible new wing airfoil? I am not aware of any other planes similar to the KR except maybe the Pulsar. >> Ron: Hey, quit reading that crystal ball! The Pulsar AND the Vision are advanced versions of a KR class of plane. Area 51 of KRNet does have lots of ideas buzzing about. Ever notice how certain unnamed persons seemed to mysteriously disappear each evening during KRKosh? I can assure you it was not for extra sleep. There is nothing concrete on a new VW class of speedster YET…just a free flow of Area 51 ideas. As I have heard before, "…you can lead, you can follow, but get the heck out of the way if you are just going to stand there…" and I suspect there is an Area 51 Posse forming for the purpose of moving ahead with a KRNet VW2 design. It is called progress, it happens in every area of life. Nothing stays the same if it is to survive. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:48:46 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Larger Flap then plans MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > I was wondering what problems I might get into by making the > flaps larger then shown on the plans. The plans show a flap that is > about six inches wide or deep. I think Mark Langford has a picture of a > flap that appears to be hinging off of the rear spar. The big difference is the location and length of the torque tube used to actuate it. Mine runs along the back side of the main spar, rather than the back side of the aft spar. And a pushrod extends from the torque tube bellcrank to the flap bellcrank. This all takes place in the gap between inboard and outboard wing, so there are no holes in the spar web. Flap actuation is by a stock lever arrangement bolted to a 5/8" mounting block which is epoxied to the back of the main spar by the left cockpit wall, so there are no extra holes in the spar. And fastening directly to the aft spar has got to be stronger than fastening to foam and glass. I would think that if you wanted flaps to start with, more flaps would be a good thing... I'll make a picture of my arrangement and put it out there in a week or so. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:19:55 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: neat site http://www.preciseflight.com/ Tom Andersen wrote: > I wonder if small speedbrakes on the stub wings just aft of the main > spar on the top only would affect the elevator control too much? I would be concerned about the airflow over the elevator. I think a better choice would be outboard of the elevator. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:22:26 -0800 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: test Micheal Mims wrote: > > Weird, it seems that only one out of every 6 post of mine are making it to > the net! Did anyone get my progress report? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Yep! Got it twice so far. You're moving right along. What else is there to do on a rainy day? Watch out for the slidding houses out there :o) Bruce S. Campbell Tampa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 19:02:02 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: test At 10:22 PM 12/7/97 -0800, you wrote: Yep! Got it twice so far. You're moving right along. What else is >there to do on a rainy day? Watch out for the slidding houses out there >:o) > I just got a whole slew of post from yesterday and today! Weird delay thing going on I guess. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:46:45 -0800 From: Robert Maniss Subject: KR: Mike Mims' test Got your test message, Mike. As a matter of fact got 3 copies dated Saturday and 3 more dated today. Seems I'm getting everything in duplicate or triplicate this weekend, tho, not just your's. Bob Maniss ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:21:47 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Re: Carbon fiber: (was Peel ply and hot wired cores) >Great stuff Steve! A couple questions(please keep in mind that I'm not >second guessing - I just know very little about using carbon fiber), I hope the people planning on using carbon fiber in areas where it might come in contact with the human body will read Composite Construction for Homebuilt Aircraft (Jack Lambie, Aviation Pub. Hummelstown, PA ISBN 0-938716-14-X). This has been mentioned several times on this list. According to Lambie, carbon fiber could be less safe in a crash because it can shatter on impact into millions of splinters that cannot be pushed out of the body by the immune system like, e.g., a wood splinter. The book recommends somewhere that it be covered with fiberglass where such shattering could endanger people. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:09:14 -0600 From: "Russell Duffy" Subject: KR: Re: Re: KR-1s >I'm not sure why a KR-1 isn't a usable aircraft if a one-person plane is >enough. I never considered it because I'd like to at least take a friend up >for a sightseeing ride occasionally (or carry lots of luggage on the right >seat if I were going cross-country alone). However, I assume the KR-1 would I guess by "usable" I meant a true 2 place plane that will hold full sized adults in relative comfort, with good range, speed, and maybe even some baggage. This would fulfill the great pilot dream of taking the spouse on those weekend vacation trips, etc, etc. Unfortunately, that's never really worked out for me or many other pilots that I've talked to. Weather, work, or something else always seems to get in the way of this plan. What I "want" is a single place performance aircraft. A KR1 would take care of 90% of all my potential flying adventures. For the other 10%, a KR2S would be the ticket. The question for me is whether to compromise 90% of my flying time to satisfy the other 10%. My wife doesn't really like to fly much. She'll go, and claims that she doesn't mind, but she gets airsick practically at the sight of the plane. I spend all my time worrying about her, and she spends all her time being ill. I have a small 2-place plane now, and she never got interested in it when it was done. It's still in it's flight restriction time, so we'll see if she jumps in for a ride when it hits 40 hrs. I predict that she'll take a token ride, and that will be it. Probably, the most reasonable thing for me to do is to build a KR1, and rent something larger when needed. BTW- You guys are really depressing me with all this talk of poor quality plans. I should receive the KR1 plans in a week or two. I'm not really sure what to expect now. Russell Duffy SlingShot SS-003, N8754K rad@pen.net http://www.pen.net/~rad/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 04:38:02 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re: KR-1s On Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:09:14 -0600, you wrote: > >BTW- You guys are really depressing me with all this talk of poor = quality >plans. I should receive the KR1 plans in a week or two. I'm not really >sure what to expect now. > >Russell Duffy >SlingShot SS-003, N8754K >rad@pen.net >http://www.pen.net/~rad/ > > Russell, There is nothing wrong with the plans. You can build a plane from them. They just need to be updated and they could give a builder a little more information. Don't worry about the plans. What the plans lack you can get from KRNet! Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S=20 KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:34:49 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: test >Weird, it seems that only one out of every 6 post of mine are making it to >the net! Did anyone get my progress report? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims This may be happening to me too, or maybe it just seems that way. sometimes a post of mine will get on the list weeks after it's been answered by other people. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:34:53 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Re: aluminum channel >Believe it or not, T-6 is common everyday aluminum. Like Brian said, if it >says 6061-T6, you've said it all. The more exotic stuff is 7075. This could be the answer to a question I've been wondering about for a long time: I've got a large suitcase full of about 75 pounds of aluminum of all shapes and sizes that were scrap, cutoffs and various jigs from a plant where I used to work, which they let me have for pennies a pound. This was not some storm-window factory -- they made portable bomb shelters for God-knows-what Cold War purposes and materials-testing chambers, including the cooling chambers that Morton Thyocol engineers used to determine that the O-rings in the space shuttle would fail in cold weather (unfortunately, the business execs wouldn't listen to the engineers, but that's another story). Thus, I can conclude this aluminum is quality-grade stuff, but the machinists weren't idiots, so they always cut metal off the end of the stock without the identification codes, so I've never known what it was and what I could use it for KR-wise. Can I assume that, at the very least, any of this stock is good enough to use where it calls for T6? Is there some clearcut test for telling what a hunk of aluminum is? I've read about a system for testing hardness of aluminum? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:50:03 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Improved KR?/Nose Gear >At 08:46 AM 12/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >>If a guy were to ponder this comment, would this possibly be a KR-2S >>derivative with mods that an unspecified KRNET dude is incorporating >>with a possible new wing airfoil? I am not aware of any other planes >>similar to the KR except maybe the Pulsar. >> >>Ron Lee > > >I didn't just buy Turbo CAD for nothing! :o) And no its not gona come with >the nose dragging option! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship Sheesh Mike. Why not? Never mind. Then you will be like the RR of Net Discussion in that dept...and get thrashed about too for the omission. As you should for sounding snobbish. ;) I tail you whut. Robert Covington (Building a Tri-Gear, without any shame whatsoever) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:56:25 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: KR: Re:Useless retract information in manual/Marsh Tom Andersen wrote: >Roy Marsh's KR-2S goes 180 mph but he's using a different airfoil, >shorter wings, and a lot more than 80 hp to do it. That article in Jan >95 Kitplanes is such BS and misrepresentative of the KR-2S it's a >disservice to kitbuilders. True about the wings, but his engine was a RevMaster 2180 Turbo, and it doesn't make all that much more horsepower over 80-85 to my knowledge. I think most of his speed came from the trick wing. Anyway, there have been a number of KR planes using that engine, or an 0-200. I think the biggest variable factor for good KR performance is low empty weight and keeping drag as low as possible. I agree with your statement that his plane is not representative of a true KR-2S, especially, and most important in my opinion, because his plane lacked the two inch stretch ahead of the wing, making any CG observation invalid except as regards his own plane, which has been sold since. Because the plane lacked that frontal stretch, I don't think it should have been called a "KR-2S", but a stretched KR-2. imho, Robert Covington ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #186 *****************************