From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 4:04 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #193 krnet-l-digest Tuesday, December 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 193 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:59:55 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III rdewees@juno.com wrote: > > Hi Patrick.. I didn't know you were in the Atlanta area. I would be very > interested in a visit to Huntsville if you and Mark can tolerate a real > "newbie" to the KR world. I have heard there is a lot of KR avtivity in > Huntsville and would love to see a real KR. > I will be glad to show you the state of my two projects, too. If you want > to call me I am at 404 876-3481 and live in the Midtown area... thanks > Ron DeWees Hi Ron, Sorry to take so long getting back to you, but this past weekend was insane. I did get down to AS&S East in Griffin to pick up some hardware first thing Saturday morning. Then drove up to Gwinnett, over to Marrietta and then back down to Union City and home to Tyrone. Christmas is gonna' kill me if it's not over soon. I'm favoring either Jan. 17 or 24 for the Huntsville Road Trip. Let me know how those dates are for you. Where do you keep your 172? That would make the trip shorter, but it sounds like the two of us make 3 "FAA humans". Do you work midtown/downtown also? I work downtown at 191 Peachtree. Maybe we can grab a burger together one day. My work number is 404-818-1717. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:11:39 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Oops! (Was Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III) Sorry, That last post was meant to be "off-list", not sent to the entire KRNet list. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:13:15 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: The Whine Art of KR Video selling In a message dated 97-12-15 11:07:03 EST, Bob wrote: << I just received my copy of the video and it is the best $25 I have spent since I started my project a jear ago. The quality of the video is totally professional and is superb. I believe that any KR builder or wannabe builder will be doing himself (or her self) a disfavor bu not getting a copy. What a tremendous boost for builder morale! Congrats for a job well done. >> Hey KRNetters, don't blame me - he started it... :) Be sure to mention you are ordering as a result of KRNet. We get a "spiff" toward KRNet budget for next year for each video sold via KRNet. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:13:12 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Yule Time Whine Making KRNetheads (especially you newbees): In this time of holiday cheer and good will, have you shown your support for KRNet? Once a year at KRKosh time we all like to support KRNet efforts with a donation ($10 suggested) to Ross for his efforts and costs in keeping KRNet running. His job is thankless and never ending. If it cost him too much out of his pocket too, then he may get ideas of jumping ship - NOT GOOD. He doesn’t know how good we have it and how cheaply he works currently, soooo - Don’t spoil it. If you are new (since KRKosh) and/or have not donated yet this year, then do it today: Ross Youngblood 1109 NE Burke Pl Corvalis, OR 97330 Thanks for your support. Email me direct if you need further information or want to flame me (I like private BBQs). Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:13:14 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Company making canopies In a message dated 97-12-15 10:53:57 EST, Marvin wrote: << Does anyone know the name and address of the plastic company that makes KR canopies. I think Bobby Muse said he got his canopy at Allied Plastics or Associated Plastics or some name like that. I can't remember the exact name. If anyone knows the name and address I would be grateful. I also wonder if they have a web site? Thanks. >> Howdy Marvin: I would try Viking Aircraft. They sell the Dragon Fly plans and parts. I do not think you'll be able to get it direct from the factory, so to speak. The DFly one is 1/8" thinner, but otherside it is basically the same as the 2S one. Cost should be less than any other vendor. Other guys who have already gone this route want to comment more? Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Moncia, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:30:56 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III wait, wait a minute, when did a kr become a 4 place like a 172? i must be missing something here or someone else is? tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:16:45 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III TANDEM2 wrote: > > wait, wait a minute, when did a kr become a 4 place like a 172? > > i must be missing something here or someone else is? A little humor. The 172 is at best a 2+2 aircraft. Not much more useful load than a KR2. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:59:53 -0500 From: "Bob Vermeulen" Subject: KR: VIDEO ALERT!!VIDEO ALERT!! Hey KRNetters, We just discovered that about 4 or 5 KR Gathering videos got shipped out that are bad quality. There will be a picture and sound, but its not good. I think I know who got them, but I'm not absolutely sure. If you happen to get one of these bad ones, please e-mail or call me. I'll get another one out the door right away. Sorry this happened, we try to make them all good. Bob Vermeulen Omega Productions 616-774-3913 bvermeul@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:46:04 EST From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: Re: KR: VIDEO ALERT!!VIDEO ALERT!! On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:59:53 -0500 "Bob Vermeulen" writes: >Hey KRNetters, > >We just discovered that about 4 or 5 KR Gathering videos got shipped >out >that are bad quality. There will be a picture and sound, but its not >good. > I think I know who got them, but I'm not absolutely sure. If you >happen >to get one of these bad ones, please e-mail or call me. I'll get >another >one out the door right away. Sorry this happened, we try to make them >all >good. > >Bob Vermeulen >Omega Productions >616-774-3913 >bvermeul@concentric.net > Hi Bob.. I am a new KR netter and sent my check for the 97 gathering in the mail today. I didn't mention that I was a netter, so if it helps the net to say so , count me as netter. Looking forward to the video for lots of ideas and inspiration. Ron DeWees ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:46:04 EST From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:59:55 -0500 Patrick Flowers writes: >rdewees@juno.com wrote: >> >> Hi Patrick.. I didn't know you were in the Atlanta area. I would be >very >> interested in a visit to Huntsville if you and Mark can tolerate a >real >> "newbie" to the KR world. I have heard there is a lot of KR avtivity >in >> Huntsville and would love to see a real KR. >> I will be glad to show you the state of my two projects, too. If you >want >> to call me I am at 404 876-3481 and live in the Midtown area... >thanks >> Ron DeWees > >Hi Ron, > >Sorry to take so long getting back to you, but this past weekend was >insane. I did get down to AS&S East in Griffin to pick up some >hardware >first thing Saturday morning. Then drove up to Gwinnett, over to >Marrietta and then back down to Union City and home to Tyrone. >Christmas is gonna' kill me if it's not over soon. > >I'm favoring either Jan. 17 or 24 for the Huntsville Road Trip. Let >me >know how those dates are for you. Where do you keep your 172? That >would make the trip shorter, but it sounds like the two of us make 3 >"FAA humans". > >Do you work midtown/downtown also? I work downtown at 191 Peachtree. >Maybe we can grab a burger together one day. My work number is >404-818-1717. > >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > Hi Patrick...Great to hear from you.. You really have been traveling a lot. I have made the AS&S trip myself as my potential partner in the KR is taking lessions at South Fulton Airport and we drove from there to AS&S one day. To add Marietta to that would indeed make a trip. I haven't been doing a lot of traveling until recently. My Mazda went thru one of the freak flooded streets from the flood 3 weeks ago and sucked some water up the exhaust and threw a rod... $3500 later it's running just like it it did before the accident. I work on Bankhead ave in a multi services buiding and am the director of a small outpatient mental health clinic. I live on Rosedale Road and it's only about 6 miles to work so the commute isn't too bad. The 172 is at Gwinnette airport and it would be about 20 miles in the wrong direction to leave from there, but would indeed make the trip shorter if the weather permits. I am not current on instruments. I think either date would be ok with me and I will ask my partner which is best for him. I would shure like to get some input on what I have with my projects . How far along are you and what are you building? Would love to show it to you and get your opinions. I just got the back issues of the KR newsletter and it sounds like every other builder is either dead or scared to death of the machine.. I sure want to find some happy KR drivers to talk to. My work number is 404 870-3673 and I have regular week hours. Give a holler sometime. I only get 30 minutes for lunch so can't go far but can have company anytime if you are in the vicinity of work or home. See you.. ROn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:01:15 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III Hi there, guys. >I'm favoring either Jan. 17 or 24 for the Huntsville Road Trip. Let me >know how those dates are for you. Where do you keep your 172? That >would make the trip shorter, but it sounds like the two of us make 3 >"FAA humans". I wouldn't mind flying in from Columbus for a little visit either (in my little Tomahawk. My KR-1 still isn't ready to go - or perhaps the other way around). I have room for 1 in the Tomahawk, so (assuming the weather's going to smile upon us) anyone along the flight route from Columbus, OH, to Atlanta needing a ride, drop me a line. Personally, if given a choice I favor the later date. Thanks, Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:38:16 EST From: Kr2dream Subject: Re: KR: Re: video The video is from the KR ngathering in Perry Oklahoma and contains excellent shots of both aircraft on the ground and in the air. Well worth the price if you want to be more familiar with what a KR is. Sorry, no construction help as such on this video. Bob Lasecki Chicago @650 hours ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:47:24 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Company making canopies BSHADR wrote: > << Does anyone know the name and address of the plastic company > that makes KR canopies. > I would try Viking Aircraft. They sell the Dragon Fly plans and parts. I do > not think you'll be able to get it direct from the factory, so to speak. The > DFly one is 1/8" thinner, but otherside it is basically the same as the 2S > one. Cost should be less than any other vendor. That is what I did. The D-fly canopy was from Viking, but it was shipped dierctly from their supplier in California. It was on the order of $425 plus about $125 to truck it to the east coast. Quality work. I tried to make my own canopy and it was a disaster. The only good thing about it was that I didn't burn down the shop. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:23:10 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > Hi there, guys. > > >I'm favoring either Jan. 17 or 24 for the Huntsville Road Trip. Let me > >know how those dates are for you. Where do you keep your 172? That > >would make the trip shorter, but it sounds like the two of us make 3 > >"FAA humans". > > I wouldn't mind flying in from Columbus for a little visit either (in my little > Tomahawk. My KR-1 still isn't ready to go - or perhaps the other way around). I > have room for 1 in the Tomahawk, so (assuming the weather's going to smile upon > us) anyone along the flight route from Columbus, OH, to Atlanta needing a ride, > drop me a line. Sounds great Ed! As the date gets closer we'll see who needs a ride. > Personally, if given a choice I favor the later date. Since you're the first to state a preference, we'll shoot for Jan. 27th if Mark's clear on that date. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:25:53 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III Patrick Flowers wrote: > > ...we'll shoot for Jan. 27th if Mark's clear on that date. Uh, that should have been Jan. 24th. Sorry, Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:20:28 -0800 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: Re: KR: VIDEO ALERT!!VIDEO ALERT!! Bob Did you get my order, Tom Stokes. On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:59:53 -0500 "Bob Vermeulen" writes: >Hey KRNetters, > >We just discovered that about 4 or 5 KR Gathering videos got shipped >out >that are bad quality. There will be a picture and sound, but its not >good. > I think I know who got them, but I'm not absolutely sure. If you >happen >to get one of these bad ones, please e-mail or call me. I'll get >another >one out the door right away. Sorry this happened, we try to make them >all >good. > >Bob Vermeulen >Omega Productions >616-774-3913 >bvermeul@concentric.net > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:02:48 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Huntsville Jan 24th's fine with me. Just remind me in advance. I'll try to get Troy Petteway and Jim Hill to drop in too. Anybody else is welcome too. Just bring beer. Does this mean I have to clean up the basement again? Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:39:37 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR >I think the KR series of aircraft is the absolute simplest aircraft to >build! It is a real piece of cake! There is a few items that should be >included in the plans that arnt but for themost part the plans dont need to >be any more technical than they are because the airplane is so basic in >design. A bit tongue-in-cheek coming from a guy who's using a completely different airfoil and construction method from the one in the plans, and a gazillion other modifications besides. . . . Or did you mean a KR is a simple, easy- to-build airplane, unlike the airplane you're designing? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:24:40 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR At 01:39 AM 12/16/97 EST, you wrote: >A bit tongue-in-cheek coming from a guy who's using a completely different airfoil and construction method from the one in the plans, and a gazillion other modifications besides. . . . Or did you mean a KR is a simple, easy- to-build airplane, unlike the airplane you're designing? > >Mike Taglieri > > Well I meant the KR is nothing more than a big model airplane and it is easy to build! The construction method I am using to build my KR is different how? Oh yea the hot wired cores!! Oh well its the only un airworthy part of the KR in my opinion so I decided to do something about it. The urethane foam that AS&S sold me does not belong on an airplane! It has absolutely no peel strength and crushes under VERY light pressure. It absolutely sucks! Its the primary reason why you see so many KRs with bumpy wings, and you can make out exactly where the spars are located in the wing. Trust me skins or hot wired cores are the way to go. I am truly surprised that there hasnt been a wing failure do the urethane foam and the way its used in the KR. It goes against all of the composite construction methods I have ever read about. Who knows, maybe AS&S is selling me the wrong stuff? You mention "gazillion other modifications". Lets see, its wider, it has hotwired wings, it has a fuel tank in the stub, I used landing gear from a Piper instead of Dans factory setup, uh.... besides that Homer, its a bone stock scratch built KR just like the first one! Oh yea I guess you could count the turtledecks since I scratch built them but I think that was the original intent in the plans anyway. Oh yes I had to build a Instrument panel because the plans don't tell you how to do it and I couldn't figure out how to get the aircraft certified without the instruments. :o) And of course there is that thing that RR has chosen to ignore, I added 2 more square feet to the horizontal stab because it will make my KR a safer airplane. Oh yea RR continues to publish incorrect CG ranges for the KR2 so I guess that's another change, mine will be 15 to 30% airfoil and not the 15 to 35% suicide zone called out in the plans! So I guess your right, in the name of wanting to survive my first flight I have made 1/2 a gazillion changes! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 06:16:49 -0600 From: " Mike Filbrandt" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR Mike, Maybe I've missed the answer to my question here on the list before, but why do you say the the additional 2 sq. ft. on the hor. stab. makes it a safer plane? I know you're building a -2. Does the problem you are looking to remedy also apply to the -1 in your opinion? Blue Skies, Mike redbaronflyrs@centuryinter.net - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 1:24 AM > > And of course there is that thing that RR has chosen to ignore, I added 2 > more square feet to the horizontal stab because it will make my KR a safer > airplane. Oh yea RR continues to publish incorrect CG ranges for the KR2 so > I guess that's another change, mine will be 15 to 30% airfoil and not the 15 > to 35% suicide zone called out in the plans! So I guess your right, in the > name of wanting to survive my first flight I have made 1/2 a gazillion changes! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 06:41:48 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Adding to horiz. stab >From: " Mike Filbrandt" > >Mike, > >Maybe I've missed the answer to my question here on the list before, but >why do you say the the additional 2 sq. ft. on the hor. stab. makes it a >safer plane? I know you're building a -2. Does the problem you are looking >to remedy also apply to the -1 in your opinion? > > >Blue Skies, > >Mike Mike; I'm sure Mike (Mims) will reply as well, but the nutshell story is that the stock -2 (and -1) are sensitive in pitch, so people have added surface area to the tail to add stability. Also lengthened the fuselage to get the tail further out for more "leverage". The -2S supposedly improves things (it's lengthened from the stock -2), but most seem to be "kicking it up a notch" on the -2S too. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:25:31 -0500 From: smithr Subject: KR: laminating main spars I was just reading an old article by Ben Owen about laminating spars. I got the distinct impression from this article that epoxy was not recommended for laminating spruce. Unfortunately I have already used T88 to laminate mine. They appear to be very strong. Is there anyone out there that is successfully flying with T88 laminated spars? Comments anyone? Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:34:02 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR At 06:16 AM 12/16/97 -0600, you wrote: >Mike, > >Maybe I've missed the answer to my question here on the list before, but >why do you say the the additional 2 sq. ft. on the hor. stab. makes it a >safer plane? I know you're building a -2. Does the problem you are looking >to remedy also apply to the -1 in your opinion? > > I haven't run the numbers on the KR1 so I don't know. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:47:14 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: laminating main spars smithr wrote: > > I was just reading an old article by Ben Owen about laminating spars. > I got the distinct impression from this article that epoxy was not > recommended for laminating spruce. Unfortunately I have already used T88 > to laminate mine. They appear to be very strong. Is there anyone out > there that is successfully flying with T88 laminated spars? Comments > anyone? I think the admonition is not to use expoxies intended for surface layups. T88 is intended for use as a structural adhesive. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:58:49 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: laminating main spars At 12:25 PM 12/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >I was just reading an old article by Ben Owen about laminating spars. >I got the distinct impression from this article that epoxy was not >recommended for laminating spruce. Unfortunately I have already used T88 >to laminate mine. They appear to be very strong. Is there anyone out >there that is successfully flying with T88 laminated spars? Comments >anyone? > >Bob Smith > I think the Key word in your post is "old". I don't think you will find anything better than epoxy for laminating spars these days. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:41:56 EST From: BSHADR Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III In a message dated 97-12-16 04:39:12 EST, Ed wrote: << I wouldn't mind flying in from Columbus for a little visit either (in my little Tomahawk. My KR-1 still isn't ready to go - or perhaps the other way around). I have room for 1 in the Tomahawk, so (assuming the weather's going to smile upon us) anyone along the flight route from Columbus, OH, to Atlanta needing a ride, drop me a line. >> Hey Marko: I'm starting to get nervous...are you trying to steal all of the KRKosh guys for your basement? Wasn't the hanger big enough last year at Perry? I remind you we did get all of the impotant planes in the hanger over night...inlcuding that RV you two KR traitors came in... :) Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:51:23 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR > Well I meant the KR is nothing more than a big model airplane and it is easy > to build! > > The construction method I am using to build my KR is different how? Oh yea > the hot wired cores!! Oh well its the only un airworthy part of the KR in my > opinion so I decided to do something about it. The urethane foam that AS&S > sold me does not belong on an airplane! It has absolutely no peel strength > and crushes under VERY light pressure. It absolutely sucks! Its the > primary reason why you see so many KRs with bumpy wings, and you can make > out exactly where the spars are located in the wing. Trust me skins or hot > wired cores are the way to go. I am truly surprised that there hasnt been a > wing failure do the urethane foam and the way its used in the KR. It goes > against all of the composite construction methods I have ever read about. > Who knows, maybe AS&S is selling me the wrong stuff >....... > Micheal Mims > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > I'd be interested in seeing some hot wired wing cores on someones web site. I'm a little unsure about how they are done. any you can think of that are good descriptive photo's? The Pulsar video shows wings skins going together but they are not Bid/foam/bid sandwiches. Its just cured BID laid over foam ribs. Rich Parker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:41:54 EST From: BSHADR Subject: Re: KR: VIDEO ALERT!!VIDEO ALERT!! In a message dated 97-12-16 02:56:35 EST, you write: << We just discovered that about 4 or 5 KR Gathering videos got shipped out that are bad quality. There will be a picture and sound, but its not good. I think I know who got them, but I'm not absolutely sure. If you happen to get one of these bad ones, please e-mail or call me. >> OUCH!!!!...I think I'll change my name to be like that sub movie. Call me "Randy October" 'cause this kind of oopsie will surely target me for a quick dispatch by all forces at the next KRKosh!!!! :) Randy (was Whine - now October) Stein ******@aol.com (going deep - depression ya know) Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:04:50 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR At 12:51 PM 12/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >I'd be interested in seeing some hot wired wing cores on someones web site. >I'm a little unsure about how they are done. Well eventually there will be a page dedicated to this when I do mine but that wont be for another month or two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:26:47 EST From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:01:15 -0800 enewbold@sprynet.com writes: >Hi there, guys. > >>I'm favoring either Jan. 17 or 24 for the Huntsville Road Trip. Let >me >>know how those dates are for you. Where do you keep your 172? That >>would make the trip shorter, but it sounds like the two of us make 3 >>"FAA humans". > >I wouldn't mind flying in from Columbus for a little visit either (in >my little >Tomahawk. My KR-1 still isn't ready to go - or perhaps the other way >around). I >have room for 1 in the Tomahawk, so (assuming the weather's going to >smile upon >us) anyone along the flight route from Columbus, OH, to Atlanta >needing a ride, >drop me a line. > >Personally, if given a choice I favor the later date. > >Thanks, >Ed Newbold >Columbus, OH > >Hi Ed... Sounds good to me and either date will be fine as far as I know now. I think Patrick will be glad to have more folks for the trip too. Ron DeWees ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:27:37 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Re: Simplicity of the KR Rich, Look at http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html and you will see more than you ever wanted to know about building a plane with hot wired flying surfaces. Tony K. has an excellent builders log with many pictures of the Europa he is building. The Europa kit includes precut foam cores but you have to build from there. Steve On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Richard Parker wrote: > > > Well I meant the KR is nothing more than a big model airplane and it is > easy > > to build! > > > > The construction method I am using to build my KR is different how? Oh > yea > > the hot wired cores!! Oh well its the only un airworthy part of the KR in > my > > opinion so I decided to do something about it. The urethane foam that > AS&S > > sold me does not belong on an airplane! It has absolutely no peel > strength > > and crushes under VERY light pressure. It absolutely sucks! Its the > > primary reason why you see so many KRs with bumpy wings, and you can make > > out exactly where the spars are located in the wing. Trust me skins or > hot > > wired cores are the way to go. I am truly surprised that there hasnt > been a > > wing failure do the urethane foam and the way its used in the KR. It > goes > > against all of the composite construction methods I have ever read about. > > Who knows, maybe AS&S is selling me the wrong stuff > >....... > > Micheal Mims > > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > > > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > > > I'd be interested in seeing some hot wired wing cores on someones web site. > I'm a little unsure about how they are done. > any you can think of that are good descriptive photo's? > The Pulsar video shows wings skins going together but they are not > Bid/foam/bid sandwiches. Its just cured BID laid over foam ribs. > > > Rich Parker > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:08:12 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: KR Gathering Videos I have just setup a new website for Video bob. http://www.krnet.org/videobob.htm We are testing this... When you click on send, it sends an email to krnet admin, and video Bob. Also.... krnet.org was hosed for at least a bit this morning, I could get to my website http://www.teleport.com/~rossy but http://www.krnet.org was stuck... it's fixed now, I emailed teleport, and maybe that did it.. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:13:55 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: Fwd: Re: HELP! reaction to epoxy?? The following came up on rec.aviation.homebuilt this afternoon and I thought it might be of general interest especially to the newcomers in the group. Sounds like some good common sense rules for working with epoxies. On 16 Dec 1997 12:20:38 -0600, rtp9433@ksu.edu (Richard Todd Perry) wrote: >eracervinn@aol.com (ERacerVinn) writes: > >>Group, >>I too am building a composite airplane in a cold climate. We have >>little >(snip) >>respirator parts, but after being sensitized, my body would hardly >>tolerate even the smallest exposure. >>When technology came to my rescue I converted to Aeropoxy. END OF >>PROBLEM. Aeropoxy has a mild smell and no body reactions for me. >>Aeropoxy is not the only bio-friendly epoxy but I am having good luck >>with it. > >I completely agree. I have limited experience with homebuilt aircraft >(I'm an A&P student right now) but I have 10 years experience with >epoxy systems working in a boatyard. My experience has been that the >resin systems can make a HUGE difference in the reaction of >individuals. I haven't used Aeropoxy, but I know that the Gougeon >Brothers (WEST systems) make some great products for the sensitive. >If you have problems in this wise, call WEST... They're good people. >I've also used SYSTEMTHREE and RAKA epoxies (RAKA is a discounter), >but usually stick with WEST because of the service you get (NOTE: I >don't, nor have I ever worked for them. >Just a satisfied customer). > >One note... It's probably not such a great idea to switch resin systems >inthe middle of a job. I did just that on a cold-molded hull once. It >left a visible difference on the final product. I dunno about tensile >strength,but asthetically, it wasn't good. Plus, the paint adhered >differently... > >Anyway, dealing with epoxy, some basic rules apply still: > >1) use a respirator (or forced-air, if you can afford it.) I believe >there's a system called "HobbyAir" that came out last year. Supposed >to be inexpensive and decent, but I can't afford a garage, let alone >a project right now, so I can't tell you from personal experience. > >2) Make sure the mask fits! (a bigger problem than you might think) If >you take the mask off after a long period of wear and you don't have a >continuous red "ring" where the mask was... get a smaller size. > >3) DONT DONT DONT use vinegar/apple cider or any other acid/alkali to >clean up your hands! Fine for tools, but it will exacerbate an epoxy >condition greatly. This bit of "old sailor's lore" cost us a good >worker in the yard I worked at. Sad. If you're using gloves >(professionally, we used Tyvek suits with gloves taped at the wrist, >although the guy I mentioned above wanted to live forever and never >did. Get the hint?), you shouldn't be cleaning anything off your hands >anyway. Use Gojo or someother pumice cleaner if absolutely nessasary. > >4) Establish a set of "epoxy tools" and label them as such (colored >tape works great). On tools you can't afford to do this on (cordless >drills, for instance), consider using duct or masking tape to cover >areas where you grip them. When they get munged up (and they will), >pull the tape off and start over. > >5) Finally, if you start to have ANY problems breathing during >or after epoxy exposure... get out of the garage until you see a >doctor. > > >I hope this helps... feel free to let me know if you have different >experiences, or problems with what I've said. I'm always open-minded. > >Regards, > >R. T. Perry - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:23:04 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Urethane foam, was Simplicity of the KR Micheal Mims wrote: > > The urethane foam that AS&S > sold me does not belong on an airplane! It has absolutely no peel strength > and crushes under VERY light pressure. It absolutely sucks! Its the > primary reason why you see so many KRs with bumpy wings, and you can make > out exactly where the spars are located in the wing. Trust me skins or hot > wired cores are the way to go. I am truly surprised that there hasnt been a > wing failure do the urethane foam and the way its used in the KR. It goes > against all of the composite construction methods I have ever read about. > Who knows, maybe AS&S is selling me the wrong stuff? > - -------------------------- Michael: I think it is the nature of all Urethane foam. When I started my project I did a series of tests using urethane and extruded styrene foam with various laminations. The styrene foam was 25% stiffer then the urethane in all tests. I did not test for peel strength. As far as I can see the only redeeming factor for urethane foam is its resistance to fuel damage. The stuff sucks. But I will most likely use it on my wings since I will have fuel tanks in the wings. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:34:11 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: NLF Visionary Fund at $660 I have received checks totaling $660.00 we still need to get to $1,000 before we go into the wind tunnel. Looks like early January will be when we get the wind tunnel time. Ashok needs to complete the design of the new airfoil specifically tailored to the Reynolds numbers our wings will be working in and I need to make the wind tunnel model for it before we go into the tunnel. Looks like a buisy next few weeks but the results should be more than worth it. The NLF(1)0115 wind tunnel model should be complete next week, the spars should arrive tomorrow or Thursday and the wing section is ready to have the spars bonded in. This is really starting to be fun - we should all be proud of the contributions we are making to Sport Aviation. Sure wish I had a plane ready for one of the new wings!! Steve Eberhart newtech@newtech.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:37:12 From: "Troy Johnson" Subject: Re: KR: NLF Visionary Fund at $660 At 03:34 PM 12/16/97 -0600, you wrote: >I have received checks totaling $660.00 we still need to get to $1,000 >before we go into the wind tunnel. Looks like early January will be when >we get the wind tunnel time. Ashok needs to complete the design of the >new airfoil specifically tailored to the Reynolds numbers our wings will >be working in and I need to make the wind tunnel model for it before we go >into the tunnel. Looks like a buisy next few weeks but the results should >be more than worth it. > >The NLF(1)0115 wind tunnel model should be complete next week, the spars >should arrive tomorrow or Thursday and the wing section is ready to have >the spars bonded in. > >This is really starting to be fun - we should all be proud of the >contributions we are making to Sport Aviation. Sure wish I had a plane >ready for one of the new wings!! > >Steve Eberhart >newtech@newtech.com > Hey Steve, Just wondering if you received my check, I sent it before Thanksgiving and it has not been cashed and I see you have not received everyone's money as promised so just checking to see if you got it...Let me know...Troy ************************************************************* If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! Troy A. Johnson WYLE Electronics 1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North Phoenix, AZ 85034 (602)-495-9953 (602)-416-2158 (direct) ************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:03:53 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: NLF Visionary Fund at $660 (fwd) I meant to include the names of the contributors in the last post. So far I have received checks from the following visionaries: Randy Stein Troy Johnson Rex Ellington Oscar Zuniga Mark Langford Ronald Lee John Esch Robert Cornelius Robert Moreland Richard Mole I haven't deposited the checks yet will probably do so this week. Thanks guys, we should all be proud of our contribution to sport aviation. Steve Eberhart - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:34:11 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: NLF Visionary Fund at $660 I have received checks totaling $660.00 we still need to get to $1,000 before we go into the wind tunnel. Looks like early January will be when we get the wind tunnel time. Ashok needs to complete the design of the new airfoil specifically tailored to the Reynolds numbers our wings will be working in and I need to make the wind tunnel model for it before we go into the tunnel. Looks like a buisy next few weeks but the results should be more than worth it. The NLF(1)0115 wind tunnel model should be complete next week, the spars should arrive tomorrow or Thursday and the wing section is ready to have the spars bonded in. This is really starting to be fun - we should all be proud of the contributions we are making to Sport Aviation. Sure wish I had a plane ready for one of the new wings!! Steve Eberhart newtech@newtech.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #193 *****************************