From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 10:31 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #200 krnet-l-digest Sunday, December 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:44:50 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? I thought about this also, since I am a R/C nut. IMO I rather stay with mechanical trim due to if I was to lose all electrical power. BTW my website is up. Just playing with though. Suggestions are greatly appreciated plus spelling tips. John F. Esch Salem, OR MikeT nyc wrote: > >Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim > tab > >servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure > I > >sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that > these > >are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage > with a > >voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than > that for > >a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating > around? > > I think I'll reconsider what I said in my last post on this. Why > power trim > from the electrical system at all? I'd do it with batteries, like the > systems > in some of the old newsletters. That way you'd have a fully flyable > plane if > the electrical system failed (assuming you have a magneto). The 4.6 > or 6 volt > RC servos are obviously intended to work with 3 or 4 dry cells, which > would > add little weight and greatly simplify the system. > > Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:57:43 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? At 01:44 12/25/97 -0800, John Esch wrote: >... >BTW my website is up. Just playing with though. Suggestions are >greatly appreciated plus spelling tips. > >John F. Esch >Salem, OR Do it, and they will come. But you have to tell them the URL In your sig line maybe... brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 09:18:19 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: Re: KR: Quiet Mods --------------------snip-----------> > I plan on using this type of muffler for my -2S and would like to fair it >into the >fuselage bottom but am not sure yet of how hot it might get while taxiing >around. >I imagine I'd have to have some sort of air inlet to allow air to flow thru >the "tunnel" with the exhaust pipe inside but don't know what I'll have to >conjure up just yet. > >Jim Hayward > > Jim, I suspect the time when the most heat will be disapated to the bottom of the fuselage will be immediately after shutdown. The muffler will still be hot but there will be no prop blast to help carry away the hot air. Some type of baffle or good insulation might work if you plan to inclose it. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 09:18:33 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: KR: trailer Fellow builders, There were some postings a few weeks back about trailers. The route I went was as follows. I shopped around until I found a boat trailer that was built for an 18' river "jon" boat. (the flat-bottomed rowboat looking thing) I wanted a tandem axle (4 tires) so I didn't lose my project to a silly $30 tire blowout!! I found one for $250, bought 4 new tires and wheels, one new bearing and a new light kit. I then proceeded to modify. I used 3 pieces of 8 inch channel from the local scrap yard (they still thought it was gold!!), three or four treated 4x4's, and some treated 2x8's and 2x10's. All together I have about $650 in the rig and have hauled an Acro-Sport II four times, an RV-4 twice, and my KR twice. It works like a dream. We use the winch to pull the A.C. onto the trailer and it is easily done with two people. We locate the A.C. to give us the tongue weight we want and then block and strap the aircraft to the trailer. Guess which one of the three planes I've hauled has the widest gear. My KR !!! With the 30" Diehl gear legs, and the 6.00x6 tires, my gear comes in at 92" outside to outside leaving just 2 inches on each side of the mains to the edge of the trailer!! Eight feet is the legal limit in Illinois so I'm at the limit. I was concerned that the bed height would be too high but when the tailwheel is set on trailer and the mains come up the ramp, the bottom of the fuselage clears with several inches to spare. My first test run was hauling a lawn tractor on a 40 mile run and the trailer was so smooth that to look in the rearview mirror you would think the lawn tractor was mounted in the bed of the truck!!! Remember, if you only haul KR's, your load will only be around 600 to 700 pounds. You don't need a construction type rig!!!!!! Your results may vary......... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:41:17 +0200 From: "PIERRE & ANTON FOUCHE'" Subject: KR: Happy Xmas Hi all MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL GOOD HEALTH AND PROSPERITY TO YOU Regards Anton Fouche' South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:02:38 EST From: Krwr1 Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? WildBill here I used a servo for a retrack gear, with a small Batt. pack under the inst. panel.. The batt. pack lasted for yrs. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:53:12 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? Hi gang, My thought on the RC servos... I expect it's what I'll use. There are several ways to hook it up though and I haven't decided on that part yet. The servo position is dictated by a pulse width signal on the white wire (sometimes yellow wire) of any model servo. The pulse ranges from 100 to 200 milliseconds (150 ms is neutral) actually these vary a little and my radio gear goes from 70 to about 160 ms. I have a couple of schematics for using some cheap parts (like a 556 timer for those how know a little about this sort of thing) for controlling position with a potentiometer. One option was to do this and use one big servo at the trim tab and one small one at the panel for an indicator. The drawback here is whether to trust all the voltage regulator and timer chips. If you want to use a servo but just want to power it one way or the other with a switch, then you should open it up and take out the little electronic board and wire up directly to the servo motor. Just powering the red and black wires on the outside of the servo won't move the motor. Reversing the voltage on them will probably just fry the little circuit board inside. I'm considering the direct switch option as well. Id probably use the little pot inside which normally feeds position info back to the little board and use it to vary the voltage on an indicator wire which would then light up an LED bargraph for a position indicator. This set up would need some limit switches to keep from over-driving the servo but it eliminates the pulse width control circuit and it's potential failure. I'm still aways off from designing and trying out these systems but if I find a good one you'll be the first to know. I'm not too concerned about losing the trim tab during an electric system failure (plane still flies) but it shouldn't be too hard to switch it to batteries if it really bothers you. Voltage control: there are a number of voltage regulators which could do the job of dropping the 12+ volts down to 5 volts for all these little electric bits but I have done the reseach on the ones best for reliability in this environment so no recommendations at this point. My guess is I'd i.d. one (or rob one) from some cheap electric thingy for automotive use which is a similar voltage spike-temperature-vibration environment. Well that's it for now. Back to the garage for me (it's time to do the rudder cables). Hopefully this helps the servo minded. - -Peter Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:29:44 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Belly Board testing In a message dated 97-12-24 18:36:40 EST, you write: << how you gonna simulate that in your pickup? You have access to the track at Daytona? ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon >> Back to you Oscar, If you are as lucky as I am and have a very understanding FBO, you have at you disposal a pretty long piece of blacktop. We've done a 100 mph test(well almost) on venturi's. It's kind of like NASA's weightlessness training, it doesn't last long, but boy is it fun. Merry Christmas Dana Overall http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:28:47 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? Peter Hudson wrote: > If you want to use a servo but just want to power it one way or the > other with a switch, then you should open it up and take out the little > electronic board and wire up directly to the servo motor. Just powering > the red and black wires on the outside of the servo won't move the > motor. Reversing the voltage on them will probably just fry the little > circuit board inside. I have thought to remove the circuit board, wire the servo to a 9V battery, and use a thin music wire run to the cockpit for trim indication/trim backup. This way if the motor burns out or the gears strip out the trim can still be moved by grabbing the indicator and sliding it. A 9v battery is self-limiting in current, and this battery type has been used successfully in the Minimax aircraft, even without trim position indicators. (of course they can turn around and determine trim indication since they're mostly open-cockpit types.) - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:54:54 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: KR: get everything? I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and got what they wanted. I am satisfied about everything. The work bench is nearly completed and I will be drawing on it here soon for the fuselage sides! John F. Esch Salem, OR New web site http://www.cyberis.net/~sesch Anything wrong with it or want to see something, let me know ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:27:16 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Re: Happy Xmas Merry Christmas to you as well!! All the best in the New Year VBRGDS Marty - -----Original Message----- From: PIERRE & ANTON FOUCHE' To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 25 December, 1997 07:38 Subject: KR: Happy Xmas >Hi all > >MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL > >GOOD HEALTH AND PROSPERITY TO YOU > >Regards > >Anton Fouche' >South Africa > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:19:35 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? >I have thought to remove the circuit board, wire the servo to a 9V >battery, and use a thin music wire run to the cockpit for trim >indication/trim backup. This way if the motor burns out or the gears >strip out the trim can still be moved by grabbing the indicator and >sliding it. A 9v battery is self-limiting in current, and this battery >type has been used successfully in the Minimax aircraft, even without >trim position indicators. (of course they can turn around and determine >trim indication since they're mostly open-cockpit types.) Is it really necessary to have a trim indicator in any plane? The only time I ever look at the one in the 152's I fly is when I preflight, and the checklist says to adjust trim to takeoff position. It later says to check that adjustment visually by looking back at the trimtab, so there was no need to use the indicator in the first place. All other times when I'm flying, the trim is set right if it feels right. 152's need a lot of down trim when you hit the throttle after a touch & go or a power-off stall, but I've never looked at the indicator under those conditions and no instructor has ever suggested that I do. I didn't realize you had to rip a circuitboard out of a servo before you could connect it directly to a switch, but that's how I'll do it: a double-throw switch for up and down with batteries for power and no trim indicator. Some builders have mounted the small servos for the KR trim in the elevator itself, with only the electrical wires going from the elevator to the stabilizer, which eliminates the hole in the spar, Nylock tubing, and all the other mess in the plans, but this would make a mechanical backup difficult. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:57:56 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? In a message dated 97-12-26 14:24:20 EST, you write: << Some builders have mounted the small servos for the KR trim in the elevator itself, >> Mike, I to wonder about the trim indicator, but I bought my unit at Sun & Fun and the indicator came with the package, plus it looks neat on the panel. The indicator will be nice however as a check item just prior to adding power at takeoff. I did what you have mentioned concerning the mounting of the servo itself. I mounted my servo to a piece of L channel and mounted it to the underneath side of the elevator at the rear of the spar. I encased the wiring in a piece of fuel tubing and ran it on the inside of the elevator along the back side of the spar, so as not to drive a hole in the spar. The tubing exits the elevator in front of the rear vertical stabilizer spar and is attached to the spar leaving a small loop for elevator travel. With the tubing exiting the elevator near the pivot point, your loop of excess wiring does not have to very large. My unit is hooked up and operates wonderfully, the wiring cannot bind and I have holes in the elevator spar other that the two bolt hole to attach the L channel. With glass fairing added at the bottom of the vertical stab, the wiring cannot be seen. Dana Overall http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:23:25 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: NLF Visionary fund at $820 Just received checks from Ross Youngblood and Pat Flowers. THe fund is now at $820.00. THere have been others that have sent email saying that they will be sending contributions after the first of the year. I am still amaized at the support we are getting on this project. I updated the web page with some more pictures of the wind tunnel wing http://www.newtech.com/nlf/nlf.html I haven't totaled the costs for the wing section yet but I now know one of the down sides of building with carbon fiber. To get the 1/16" wing skins I am using 8 layers of carbon fiber BID on the top and bottom surface. I used up a 10 yard roll of $18.00 a yard carbon fiber for the skin. I ended up making one short, 8" span chord as a test sample to verify the carbon skins and the aileron hinging method. THis plus using the Langford method of scrapping the first set of wing cores puts the amount of blue foam, from Wicks, at one and one half planks of 7" x 14" x 64" foam at $30.94 per plank. Will use a little less than a quart of West 105 resin at 21.45 and about a gallon of micro at $6.50 and 1/10 gallon of cab-o-sil at $0.39. Also will have to include one rubber squegee that I foregot to clean before the epoxy dried and ruined it at $2.85. The finishing system that I am using is K&B SuperPoxy epoxy paint and primer. A pint of each with catalyst is $28 for $54.00 for the final finish. The aileron hinge is 1 1/4 aluminum piano hinge - bought 6 foot so I would have enough for the two wing sections $38.88. THe hinges have too much play for wind tunnel use so used the method recommended in the Canard Pusher for removing play from the hinges - 100' teflon tubing (smallest qty. I could order) $14.00 and the stainless steel welding rod to replace the hinge pin $2.00. It sure takes all of the fun out of it when you total up everything. Looks like about $366.48 for my portion of the wing. The spars cost about $60 in high strength steel tubing and billet bars to bring the cost up to about $426.48. Looks like the carbon fiber hot tub is going to have to be an E Glass tub ;-) Hope everyone had a good Christmas. My wife gave me the money to build the tail of my KR - it doesn't get much better than that. Steve Eberhart All donations to the NLF Visionary Fund are greatly appreciated and can be sent to: Steve Eberhart P.O. Box 9227 Evansville, IN 47724 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:25:39 +0000 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Projects FS At 07:50 PM 12/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Ron and Netters: How long has the Kr2S been in production? Is the "new >gear design" an improvement over the older one and would it be possible to >convert this one to fixed gear conventional? Thanks. I assume the "new gear design" is something the builder designed himself as there is no new design available from Rand Robinson. Actually RR only offers the fixed gear at this time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 16:47:21 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: Control Stick Does anyone know a source for a control stick. I am looking for one that as a minimum has a rocker switch for elevator trim, push-to-talk switch, and several more switches that can be used for radio frequency selection when I get to that point. The one that you can get with the MAC trim servo has these features, but it doesn't look very good. Any suggestions? - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:05:19 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick In a message dated 97-12-26 16:49:10 EST, you write: << Does anyone know a source for a control stick. I am looking for one that as a minimum has a rocker switch for elevator trim, push-to-talk switch, and several more switches that can be used for radio frequency selection when I get to that point. The one that you can get with the MAC trim servo has these features, but it doesn't look very good. Any suggestions? -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm >> Don, Try Infinity Aerospace. They market a replica fighter stick grip with six switches of your choice mounted where you want them. It's the grip I'm using. The only consideration is that there is a 15 strand wire bundle that connects the grip to the operated components, so I'm using a 1" tube for my control stick rather than the smaller diameter in the plans and as supplied by RR. You'll also need a relay deck ($25) to use the MAC servo with the trim control on the stick. The web page is: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_aerospace/infgrip.htm The address is old, I think they may have a new one, but a search on infinity aerospace will get it for you. The email address is INFAero@flash.net, voice and fax on (619)448-5103. Oh yeah, they used to go for $150, I don't know if they've raised their prices since Oshkosh. It's an outstanding piece of equipment, I'm really pleased with mine. I'm also contemplating a multifunction throttle quadrant grip, but I haven't put anything on paper yet. Let me know if you're interested. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:26:16, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Control Stick Mine came from Best Buy computer store. The Wing Commander light. They also have the regular Wing Commander that has 4 buttons and a chinamans hat. I modified it to fit the 3/4" tube and potted it in place with Bondo. I only wse the trigger button for push to talk. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:45:56 -0500 From: haroldp Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick As mentioned before, I built a Velocity and had a great grip from them. I think it is in the $30.00-$35.00 range and includes the grip with on PTT and 2 trim switches. I can only recommend it for feel and value. Rgds Harold PS: (561) 589-1860; ask for Bonnie Swing Donald Reid wrote: > Does anyone know a source for a control stick. I am looking for one that > as a minimum has a rocker switch for elevator trim, push-to-talk switch, > and several more switches that can be used for radio frequency selection > when I get to that point. The one that you can get with the MAC trim > servo has these features, but it doesn't look very good. Any suggestions? > > -- > Don Reid > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:01:27 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: NLF Visionary fund at $820 Steven A Eberhart wrote: > Also will have to include one rubber squegee that I foregot to > clean before the epoxy dried and ruined it at $2.85. You're beginning to get a taste of what it's like to build a KR. Most people get that building the tail, but look at the bright side... your tail will be perfect! Build it. They will come... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:53:51 -0800 From: wolfpacks@juno.com (Linda & Paul Martin) Subject: KR: Mufflers I notice lots of suggestions for mufflers. There's some made by VW, cost $3.50 (each), weigh only a few ounces and they fit my exhaust tubing perfectly. You can find them sticking out the back of most VW bugs and if you take them out the bug gets noisy. Anyone know if it's too much back pressure? I hope to fire my engine in Jan. so I haven't tested these. Anyone out there try them yet? Paul M. Ashland, OR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:57:10 +-200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: Test Just testing ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:18:44 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Control grip Rick wrote: >>I'm also contemplating a multifunction throttle quadrant grip, but I >>haven't put anything on paper yet. > > You jet jockeys! I picture one of those latching gate deals to lock out 'beta' on your KR ;o) You ever heard of keeping it simple? You ever been in a yellow Cub? ;o) You just put the old mitt on the throttle, roll it forward, and fly. No buttons to push, no levers to lock, nobody to talk to or listen to. Just blue sky and the purr of the engine! Thanks for your contributions; Happy New Year! Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:15:20 +0000 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick At 04:47 PM 12/26/97 -0800, you wrote: The one that you can get with the MAC trim >servo has these features, but it doesn't look very good. Any suggestions? > > >-- >Don Reid But it works great! I get to fly a Dragonfly that has a full blown MAC trim setup in pitch and roll. It uses the MAC control stick and the buttons have a good feel to them and if I recall there are a few extra buttons for other functions. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:11:16 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Avionics overkill -- was Control grip Oscar wrote: << Rick wrote: >>I'm also contemplating a multifunction throttle quadrant grip, but I >>haven't put anything on paper yet. > > You jet jockeys! I picture one of those latching gate deals to lock out 'beta' on your KR ;o) You ever heard of keeping it simple? You ever been in a yellow Cub? ;o) You just put the old mitt on the throttle, roll it forward, and fly. No buttons to push, no levers to lock, nobody to talk to or listen to. Just blue sky and the purr of the engine! Thanks for your contributions; Happy New Year! Oscar >> Ok, Ok, you caught me!!! ;-) The one part of my airplane that I am totally geeking out on is the avionics integration. The fact that I'm even using the term "avionics integration" with regard to a KR should make you roll your eyes, but it's the way I want to do it. I am using a HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick) integration in my airplane to control everything from the trim to transponder ident functions without moving my hands from the throttle or stick. My instrument panel (VFR) will be totally digital except for the turn and bank and fuel guage, I'm using the Rocky Mountain Industries Micro Encoder and Micro Monitor you see advertised in Sport Aviation and Kitplanes. Great products, and fun to build. If I can figure out how to integrate a HUD (head up display) from one of the cars that have implemented that technology, I'll probably do that eventually, too!!! Yes, it's a "little" more complex than it needs to be ;-}, but believe it or not I'm saving weight. And yes, before anyone asks, I'm planning backup power for all the essential avionics. Wouldn't have it any other way! Oh, and by the way, I've got a "few" hours in a Super Cub and a Citabria, and completely understand and respect the KISS principle. I've just chosen to ignore it in this case.... LOL. Blame it on my day job! Cheers, and Happy New Year to everyone! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:14:41 -0500 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: "Banana Boat" question At 02:15 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote: > >FWIW, I have used the wood soaking method on RC aircraft in the past, it >does help. The wood was balsa sheet, and was soaked in hot ammonia water >until it was pliable enough to wrap around a turtledeck framework. Glue >was applied as usual, followed by the wood planking, then rubber banded, >clamped, etc. to hold it in place til it dried. The practicalities of >doing this on a full scale plane might make the operation a little more >difficult, obviously. > >Mark Scott >Vision wannabe builder >Elkton, MD USA > > When you say "hot ammonia water" what exactly is it? ie. 50% water, 50% ammonia and 180 deg. F? Thanks Dennis (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:14:11 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick > << Does anyone know a source for a control stick. > Try Infinity Aerospace. They market a replica fighter stick grip with six > switches of your choice mounted where you want them. Thanks to all respondents. I found Infinity Aero with a web search. This is the stick that I was thinking about, but now I think it may have too many buttons. I may try a computer joystick and add buttons/switches as necessary. BTW, I didn't mean to start a flame between jet jocks and Cub'ers. I have flown a Supercub (the J-3 is just too small) and love it, and drool over the idea of a Mach 2+ fighter. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:09:53 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick -- "flame extinguisher" In a message dated 97-12-27 19:16:04 EST, Don wrote: << BTW, I didn't mean to start a flame between jet jocks and Cub'ers. I have flown a Supercub (the J-3 is just too small) and love it, and drool over the idea of a Mach 2+ fighter. -- >> I must have missed the flame, but there are alot of things you can do in a Cub that you can't do at Mach 2, and vice versa. That's why I love flying both! The KR is a great airplane to build because you can do just about anything you want to it as long as you don't break the Cardinal Rule of not adding weight. And alot of people have added alot of weight, and STILL have great airplanes. My goal is to bring my airplane in under 600# with as many "high tech" avionics as my weight restriction will allow. The best way to configure your cockpit is to design it after the cockpit of the airplane you enjoy the most and are the most comfortable with, and make the improvements you have always wished you could make. If your favorite cockpit is in a Cub, then you know what your KR cockpit should look like. My favorite is a little more exotic, but I also know what my "Phantom Eagle" KR-2S cockpit will look like. Neither will be better than the other, they'll just reflect the 'druthers of each of the builders. Isn't experimental aviation COOL??!! Please yourself, you'll enjoy your airplane that much more. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 05:44:58 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Engine of the Week Hello, Netters; Well, it's time again for the Engine of the Week. I've been reading again (sorry, Randy)- in my 'engine' archive. Does anybody know of anybody who is flying, or has considered, the CAM100 for the KR? It's advertised head-to-head with the O-200, and I've scanned the 3-views into AutoCAD to see how it 'fits' in the scanned-in cowling of the KR. Is the company even in business any more? My literature is about 3 years old. Back then, the package was about $5,800- which is less than the Stratus Subaru conversion package of about the same HP. Nothing any more reliable than a good old Honda engine, plus the developers put a lot of thought into the ignition and 'brain' to control it. Thanks Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:17:47 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Nylaflow brake lines? BrakeLineHeads, I seem to vaguely remember somebody saying that Nylaflow(R!) brake lines might melt if connected directly to the caliper, especially during extended taxi tests. Has anyone had this experience? I have both the 5052-0 and Nylaflow tubing on hand, so I can go either way, but I'd rather use Nylaflow due to the ease of bending and lack of fatigue problems. I could use the aluminum just for the last few feet, but the caliper does move a little bit, and I don't want to do the fatigue arresting coil thing for aerodynamic reasons. Any opinions? Anybody connect Nylaflow directly to the caliper and live to tell about it? I don't plan to do a whole lot of taxi testing. Probably a couple of trips down the runway to get the feel for it and then a firewall job... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:38:49 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Nylaflow brake lines? Mark Langford wrote: > > BrakeLineHeads, > > I seem to vaguely remember somebody saying that Nylaflow(R!) brake lines > might melt if connected directly to the caliper, especially during extended > taxi tests. Has anyone had this experience? I have both the 5052-0 and > Nylaflow tubing on hand, so I can go either way, but I'd rather use > Nylaflow due to the ease of bending and lack of fatigue problems. I could > use the aluminum just for the last few feet, but the caliper does move a > little bit, and I don't want to do the fatigue arresting coil thing for > aerodynamic reasons. Any opinions? Anybody connect Nylaflow directly to > the caliper and live to tell about it? I don't plan to do a whole lot of > taxi testing. Probably a couple of trips down the runway to get the feel > for it and then a firewall job... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford Mark, That's what I used- the plastic tubing into Cleveland brakes. Never had any problem with the plastic melting, but I did have an incident where the tubing rubbed on the disc brake. Didn't take long to cut thru it. Make sure you tie the tubing down well with something. I used tie wraps and they seem to be holding up well. I am pretty comfortable with the system now and plan to put the wheelpants on before the next flight. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:54:13 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: KR: props For those of you flying KR's- I would be interested in hearing about your experience in getting the right prop on your plane. I know all the guidelines that you read about, but would like to hear some first hand knowlege before I go and start whittling on my prop. Specifically- my 2400cc T4 is turning a Sterba 54" dia by 56" pitch prop. The max RPM static or in the air is 3000. Let's just say that the ROC and the top speed is less than I anticipated. Has anyone gone thru a similar situation? When you trimmed the pitch, I would think the ROC would increase, but how did it affect the top speed? Anyone have any real numbers? Please E-Mail me direct if you hesitate to post on the net. All info will be usefull to me. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:57:41 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Nylaflow brake lines? Seems this issue has recently come up in the EZ list. If I recall correctly, Rutan recommended using fiberfrax, or other heat retardent material, to protect the tubing. In any event, I would suggest at a minimum, to keep the wheel pants off during any taxi tests. Ron Lee At 08:17 AM 12/28/97 -0600, you wrote: >BrakeLineHeads, > >I seem to vaguely remember somebody saying that Nylaflow(R!) brake lines >might melt if connected directly to the caliper, especially during extended >taxi tests. Has anyone had this experience? I have both the 5052-0 and >Nylaflow tubing on hand, so I can go either way, but I'd rather use >Nylaflow due to the ease of bending and lack of fatigue problems. I could >use the aluminum just for the last few feet, but the caliper does move a >little bit, and I don't want to do the fatigue arresting coil thing for >aerodynamic reasons. Any opinions? Anybody connect Nylaflow directly to >the caliper and live to tell about it? I don't plan to do a whole lot of >taxi testing. Probably a couple of trips down the runway to get the feel >for it and then a firewall job... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >email at langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 13:24:26 -0800 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick -- "flame extinguisher" > but I also know what my "Phantom Eagle" KR-2S cockpit will look like. >Neither will be better than the other, they'll just reflect the >druthers of each of the builders. > > Isn't experimental aviation COOL??!! Please yourself, you'll enjoy your airplane that much more. > > Cheers! > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO Now there IS a cool idea -- a Phantom Eagle 2 Stretch. Happy New Year Guys! Bruce S. Campbell Tampa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 13:21:03 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Avionics overkill -- was Control grip >Ok, Ok, you caught me!!! ;-) The one part of my airplane that I am totally >geeking out on is the avionics integration. The fact that I'm even using the >term "avionics integration" with regard to a KR should make you roll your >eyes, but it's the way I want to do it. I am using a HOTAS (hands on >throttle >and stick) integration in my airplane to control everything from the trim to >transponder ident functions without moving my hands from the throttle or >stick. Just try not to have the "Push to talk" button too close to the "Squawk 7700 & Radio to121.5" button. Those FAA guys have no sense of humor and the HOTAS might be yours. . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 13:21:00 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Possible error in manual? I was reading the plans for the upper engine mount installation (pg. 16, drawing #9), when I noticed an error, or at least a difference from the original suggestion in the Newsletters. The KR mount is narrower than the KR-2 firewall and localizes the stress further from the longerons than isideal. The use of a T6 aluminum angle iron behind the firewall began when Lance Neibauer discovered cracks in the 5/8" spruce crossmember of his 175 hour KR-2, and suggested reinforcement, which resulted in several months of controversy (Newsletters # 97-99) after Rand Robinson denied there was a problem and said Neibauer must have damage his plane by dropping it off a trailer. Eventually, RR put the angle iron in the plans, but Niebauer's original drawing also said to epoxy the angle to both the 5/8" crossmember and the top 1/4" ply shear plate and bolt it to the shear plate. (It's already bolted to the 5/8" by the engine mounts. Niebauer does not say how many or where to bolt on the 1/4" ply, just that "8/32's are sufficient," but I guess you'd bolt it where the engine mount bolts are). The drawing in the plans, by contrast has the angle but nothing about bolts or epoxy, I'm sure we're all shocked to imagine that there might be an error in the manual, but perhaps the unthinkable has finally happened. Seriously, does anyone know whether the lack of epoxy and bolts to the shearplate in the manual was developed because of problems that developed in the Niebauer version, or would it be wise to add them? (The "problems" I'm thinking of would be that aluminum expands and contract with temperature much differently from spruce). Incidentally, as some of you may know, Lance Neibauer was once very active in KR's before he lost the faith and began building some kind of knock-off plane whose name I can't recall. . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 13:21:11 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Another tantalizing bit from Niebauer, but what is it? In the same 1983 article that first mentions the firewall reinforcement I posted earlier, Lance Niebauer describes a modification to his KR-2, "Sweet Mildred" (#97 p. 2): >I've also converted "Mildred's" ailerons into flaperons. The retro fit was >all accomplished from the wing stub ends and consequently did not >involve any exterior patch work. The flap mode is limited by the total >available down travel of the original ailerons (-12 1/2 degrees). I now >use 7 degrees flap on final which translates into about an 8 mph slower >approach speed with having the same "over the nose" visibility as with >the no-flaps higher speed. This really does pay off in much shorter >landings. The sink rate was not measurably increased since 7 degrees >flaps add little drag, but does pitch the nose down considerably. >I will be drawing up the modifications for use in a future article. Also, I >would strongly recommend installing flaperons to anyone in the >cunstruction phase as they are very simple and effective (I'd like to thank >a fellow KR-1 pilot, Richard Shirley, for helping machine out the >necessary parts. The problem is that he never sent the drawing, or at least I haven't been able to find it in my old newsletters (which are not complete although I'm working on that). The reason may partly be the harsh way Niebauer was treated by RR for suggesting that the firewall needed to be beefed up, or maybe he was just moving on to bigger and better things (i.e., the Lancair). He was offering "Sweet Mildred" for sale in the same issue. Can anyone guess what Niebauer was doing here? It would certainly be tempting to have drag capability without the complexity of flaps or spoilers (or the drag they'd have when not deployed). Also if someone were building this from the start rather than retrofitting it to an existing plane, it might be possible to get more than 12 1/2 degrees. I'm so interested in this modification that I'm even thinking about writing Niebauer about it, but I'm not expecting an answer. Lancair probably has more lawyers than Rand-Robinson has employees, and I doubt they'll be too keen about their president exposing himself to liability by giving advice on an unauthorized modification he made 15 years ago to another company's homebuilt. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #200 *****************************