From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, January 09, 1998 1:03 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #7 krnet-l-digest Friday, January 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 007 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:13:02 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) Ed Janssen wrote: > > Sorry, Didn't catch who initially asked the question about fuel flow. Just > a reminder that a fuel flow check should always be made on whatever fuel > delivery system a builder comes up with. Although it's a very basic check, > we still hear about a few people who fail to take this very important step > and get in trouble, especially with a gravity-fed only system. If you > didn't build it yourself, don't assume the fuel flow is OK. For example, if > you figure that your VW gulps 4.5 gallons an hour, full throttle, then make > sure that that is what your getting at the carb PLUS a generous margin at > all fuel levels in the header tank. > > Ed Janssen Ed, Thanks I was the original Poster (Ross). One fuel flow test I have heard of is to get a long hose, and stand on a ladder, if the fuel pump can pump the fuel up hill out the end of the hose at the desired rate, then you are probably set for a climb attitude situation. This was a clever way of not having to dig a hole for the tail, and put the main wheels on blocks. However, this technique has some drawbacks for gravity feed systems I think. :) Mainly you end up standing on the ladder for a long time waiting for gravity to push the fuel uphill. One EAA chapter member locally suggested using a sealed tank with slight AIR pressure to pressurize the tank. One could use a bicycle pump. 1-2 psi would be enough to push the fuel anyplace. Interesting idea. -- Ross - -- Ross > > At 08:57 PM 1/7/98 -0800, you wrote: > >At 11:19 PM 1/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> Ross: > >> As I am only a KR "Buyer" and not a KR "Flyer" yet take this at face value > >only, please. > >> > >> My airplane had a Hapi 1835 engine, an Ellison T.B.I. and 1/4 fuel line > >GRAVITY FED ONLY from the header tank and the previous owner said he could > >not run it "flat out" without the boost pump on............... > > > >There have been many documented cases of the Dragonfly guys having trouble > >with the Ellison and 1/4 inch lines, don't do it! You need a 3/8 line from > >the header tank to the carb if you want to run it on gravity alone! > >Otherwise you will need a pump to achieve optimum performance. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > >Happy Holidays to Everyone! > > > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:14:37 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Tailwheel nutplates At 12:44 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >Mark Langford wrote: >> And you're right about tailwheel nut plates. But since tail wheel mounting is not even IN the plans,............................... >> >My aft deck is removeable, and I used tailwheel nutplates. I used >small nails instead of rivets... marginally passable but keeps them >from rotating. >-- Ross > > I just gave in,.. an cut a 5 inch round access panel below the horizontal stab. Its about half way up the side of the fuselage and gives me plenty of room to get inside to R&R cables and or tailwheel bolts. It takes all of 10 seconds to remove the inspection panel and its nice and clean. I used the tailwheel spring from AS&S and it only requires one bolt (there are two more bolts on either side to keep it from moving side to side) for mounting. Its nice and simple,..not only that it is standard width so I can use what ever tailwheel assy I want. I thought about building my own tailwheel spring and tailwheel but feel much better about buying REAL ones. Heck the spring is only about $20! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:15:08 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) Rick! Thanks for the NUMBERS! In the case of the EFS-2, I am concerned not only with fuel flow rate, but also pressure. I can imagine that I could measure adequate fuel flow, but be under the desirable pressure with a gravity feed to get the TBI to operate correctly. Time to get out my physics book to see if I can equate flow rates and pressure. -- Ross EagleGator wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-08 08:28:09 EST, you write: > > << if you figure that your VW gulps 4.5 gallons an hour, full throttle, then > make > sure that that is what your getting at the carb PLUS a generous margin at > all fuel levels in the header tank. >> > > The recommended fuel flow rate for a gravity feed fuel system is 150% of the > fuel consumption of the engine at full throttle. If you have a pressurized > system, only 125% is recommended. As a general conservative rule, an aircraft > engine burns about 0.55 pounds of fuel per hour per horsepower, so you can use > the following formula to determine your minimum fuel flow rate for a gravity > feed system: > > Engine horsepower x 0.55 x 1.5 = minimum flow rate > > For a 65 HP VW, this works out to 53.625 pounds per hour, or 8.9375 gallons > per hour. That means that you should get at least 3 quarts of fuel through > the system in 5 minutes. Although they are conservative (about 6 gallons per > hour vs. the advertised 4.5), I'd recommend using these numbers unless you > have used a flow rate monitor to determine the true fuel flow of your engine > at full throttle. > > Cheers! > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:16:19 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR2S Baggage Buy several sets of golf clubs, and keep them at every golf course you land at. - -- Ross Wondering how one can afford to Golf & Fly. LVav8r wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-08 10:22:02 EST, you write: > > << I am hoping to add a baggage tube behind the seats to allow me to carry > > > >>my golf clubs. The weight should be okay (25lbs) but I am sure if it > > > >>would have to drastic an effect on my CG. Anyone have any thoughts on > > > >>the feasiblity? >> > > Strap the clubs into the passenger seat, unless you have to carry a > passenger. In that case leave the clubs at home and rent them at the golf > course! ; ) > > Tom Kilgore > Las Vegas, NV > LVav8r@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/LVav8r/index.html > KR-2S 2% complete > __I__ > _______( X )_______ > o/ \o ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:04:53 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: KR2S Baggage Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: > > I am hoping to add a baggage tube behind the seats to allow me to carry > my golf clubs. The weight should be okay (25lbs) but I am sure if it > would have to drastic an effect on my CG. Anyone have any thoughts on > the feasiblity? Golf Clubs? My rough feeling on this is that you are toast with regards to AFT CG on this. I think with some folks putting 1" spacers on the engine to get the CG right, there is not enough margin. However, it would be nice to do the weight and balance with the load, and see what happens. It just might work, just make sure the clubs don't slide farther aft. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:34:38 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Mini 500 and the NTSB Below you will find more interesting reading about accidents and homebuilt aircraft. Although this is not a KR we can learn from others mistakes. Interesting this list has so many entries considering the Mini500 has only been out a few years! http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/helicopter.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:45:50 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR2S Baggage At 01:04 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: I am hoping to add a baggage tube behind the seats to allow me to carry >> my golf clubs. The weight should be okay (25lbs) but I am sure if it >> would have to drastic an effect on my CG. Anyone have any thoughts on the feasibility? > >Golf Clubs? >My rough feeling on this is that you are toast with regards to AFT CG >on this. I think with some folks putting 1" spacers on the engine >to get the CG right, there is not enough margin. I was thinking the same, you could put the clubs in front of the main spar across the floor of the fuselage. Of course the fuselage may not be wide enough to fit them, as I have no idea how long golf clubs are! I could never figure out how chasing a little white ball could be so interesting,..oh well! :o) PS If you are getting into homebuilts,..give up golfing or you will never get it finished! Just Ask Jeb! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:27:11 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: Re: KR: KR For Sale > ATTN: I am looking for a KR-2 any condition .Please respond to me here or personel E-Mail at LEPERKINS@JUNO.COM Thanks, Lloyd > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:27:11 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: KR: Re: R/C Models ATTN all R/C modelers: I am looking to buy all of your old Airplanes and Engines . I am also looking to purchase some more radio equipment. Please E-Mail me with your lists and prices. LEPERKINS@JUNO.COM Thanks, Lloyd Perkins (540)786-2838 before 11:00 EST ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:32:56, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Information wanted Jean Veron Broken Arrow, OK Modifying N4DD for an O-200 (should be done by Sun-N-Fun). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:13:34 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: NTSB Accident stats I have been going through the NTSB accident database and one caught my eye. I will post a summary of the KR stats when I'm done... but this one caught my attention. I recall this accident. I may have to check my plans again, but as I recall the plans call for a single piano hinge for the canopy so this report is inaccurate... or... I should change my hinge assignment. I had read that it was thought a bird strike may have occured. - -- Ross NTSB Identification: FTW92LA054 For details, refer to NTSB microfiche number 46495A Accident occurred JAN-04-92 at SAN MARCOS, TX Aircraft: ALVIN D. CAMPBELL KR-2, registration: N651AC Injuries: 2 Fatal. THE PILOT/BUILDER OF THE HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT WAS ON A LOCAL FLIGHT TO DEMONSTRATE THE AIRCRAFT FLIGHT CHARACTERISTICS TO A PROSPECTIVE BUILDER. WHILE MANEUVERING, THE ONE PIECE PLEXIGLASS CANOPY SEPARATED FROM THE AIRFRAME DUE TO FAILURE OF THE HINGE SYSTEM, RESULTING IN AN INFLIGHT LOSS OF CONTROL. THE PILOT HAD MODIFIED THE CANOPY HINGE SYSTEM FROM THE STANDARD TWO HINGE SYSTEM, TO A FULL LENGTH PIANO WIRE HINGE SYSTEM. THE LOSS OF THE CANOPY IN SUCH A SHORT COUPLED FUSELAGE DISTURBED THE AIRFLOW TO THE POINT OF BLANKETING THE ELEVATORS. Probable Cause THE MODIFICATION OF THE CANOPY HINGE SYSTEM WHICH RESULTED IN THE LOSS OF AIRCRAFT CONTROL DUE TO AN INFLIGHT CANOPY SEPARATION. Index for Jan 1992 | Index of Months ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:22:50 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: NTSB Darwin Award Candidate NTSB Identification: LAX93LA135 For details, refer to NTSB microfiche number 52729A Accident occurred FEB-23-93 at PRESCOTT, AZ Aircraft: DOWNARD KR-1, registration: N9HD Injuries: 1 Serious. THE EXPERIMENTAL HOMEBUILT HAD ONLY BEEN OPERATED ABOUT 56 HOURS IN THE LAST 12 YEARS, WITH THE LAST FLIGHT PRIOR TO THE ACCIDENT LISTED IN THE AIRCRAFT LOG BOOK AS JUNE 16, 1992. THE PILOT MADE NO STATEMENT REGARDING THE ACCIDENT CIRCUMSTANCES. GROUND WITNESSES REPORTED HEARING AND OBSERVING THE AIRCRAFT DESCEND INTO A RESIDENTIAL AREA WITHOUT ANY APPARENT ENGINE POWER. FAA AIRWORTHINESS INSPECTORS EXAMINED THE AIRCRAFT AND REPORTED FINDING MANY DISCREPANCIES IN THE AIRCRAFT SYSTEM DESIGNS AND INSTALLATIONS. THE FUEL SYSTEM CONSISTED OF A RUBBERMAID FIVE GALLON CONTAINER CONNECTED TO THE ENGINE WITH PLASTIC TUBING AND OPERATED BY A HAND WOBBLE PUMP. THE CARBURETOR HEAT SYSTEM CONSISTED OF PVC PLUMBING PIPE HELD TOGETHER AND SECURED TO BOTH THE ENGINE EXHAUST SYSTEM AND THE CARBURETOR WITH RTV SEALANT. THE FAA INSPECTORS REPORTED THAT THE EXAMINATION OF THE REVMASTER VW ENGINE ITSELF REVEALED NO EVIDENCE OF A MECHANICAL MALFUNCTION. REVIEW OF FAA RECORDS REVEALED THAT THE PILOT'S MEDICAL HAD EXPIRED. THE PILOT HAD HELD HIS PRIVATE CERTIFICATE FOR 40 YEARS AND HAD FLOWN 290 HOURS IN THAT TIME. THE AVAILABLE PILOT AND AIRCRAFT RECORDS DISCLOSED THAT THE PILOT HAD NOT FLOWN IN THE LAST SEVEN MONTHS. Probable Cause THE TOTAL LOSS OF ENGINE POWER FOR UNDETERMINED REASONS. A FACTOR IN THE ACCIDENT WAS THE LACK OF A SUITABLE LANDING AREA AT THE TIME OF THE POWER INTERRUPTION. Index for Feb 1993 | Index of Months ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:31:15 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: NTSB Accident stats At 04:13 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >I recall this accident. I may have to check my plans again, but as >I recall the plans call for a single piano hinge for the canopy so >this report is inaccurate... or... I should change my hinge assignment. > >I had read that it was thought a bird strike may have occured. > >-- Ross > Yea I think this NTSB report was inaccurate, I think I remember something about the hinge being installed with wood screws rather than bolts and the screws pulled out of the longeron. Bummer! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh my,... its 1998! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:44:42 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) At 13:13 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote:... >One EAA chapter member locally suggested using a sealed tank with >slight AIR pressure to pressurize the tank. One could use a bicycle >pump. 1-2 psi would be enough to push the fuel anyplace. Interesting >idea. > > -- Ross Time to do some numbers: (Press the NEXT button now if you are math-averse) 1 atmosphere = 29.92 inches of mercury ( We all knew that!) Mercury density 13.59 Gasoline (say) 0.8 - it varies! So the atmosphere (14.7 psi) can push mercury up 29.92 inches and it can push gasoline up 13.59/0.8 x 29.92 inches that's 508 inches or 42 ft 4 inches. So a pump offering ONE psi can raise a head of gasoline to 35 inches. Next question: how much pressure does the air on the forward tank vent apply at various speeds? Dynamic pressure (sometimes called q) is given by the formula 1/2 rho. v squared rho is air density v is airspeed Let's skip the eact figures, this pressure is about 24 lbs/sq ft at 100 mph 48 at 140 mph 63 at 160 mph 96 at 200 mph But that's in sq feet. In sq inches thats 0.17 psi at 100 mph 0.33 psi 0.44 psi 0.67 psi at 200 So, what head of gasoline is this? 100 mph 6 inches of head 140 mph 11.6 inches 160 mph 15.4 inches 200 mph 23.5 inches. In other words - a pump from the wing to a header "thinks" the header is abt 24 inches higher (further to pump) at 200 mph. So, (finally, the punch line...) a pump offering ONE psi can raise gas 35 inches at the same tank pressure BUT only 11 inches (35 - 24 inches) if the outflow is a header tank facing into wind at 200 mph... Are you pleased you asked? Oh, yes; you didn't ask! brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:43:14 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: KR Accident summary (NTSB database) Here is what I found with a Query from 1/1/74 to 12/31/97 on KR Amateur Builts at http://www.ntsb.gov.NTSB/Query.htm N4306 3/6/83 -- No Carb Heat(Lost Power) N83UT 6/1/83 -- Bad Magneto (Lost Power) N3924N 7/19/83 -- Landing Mush into Trees N3382F 7/21/83 -- Distrib High Tension Lead (Lost Power) N98BB 7/23/83 -- Low Steep Turn over Water FATAL N80190 7/30/83 -- Fuel Starvation (Lost Power) FATAL N1369N 8/04/83 -- Tailwind? FATAL N391JK 9/04/83 -- Fuel Exhaustion,Leak (Lost Power) N25134 11/06/83 -- Mushed Stall FATAL N42CW 1/21/84 -- PowerLine FATAL N54KS 2/26/84 -- Engine failure (FATAL) N125RM 3/20/84 -- Low Power Takeoff continued N81JD 7/29/84 -- Engine failure (Oil Press) N507FJ 8/12/84 -- Fire/Crash...Unknown N4543Y 8/17/84 -- Hard Landing N45757 9/18/84 -- Precautionary Landing N83HL 10/06/84 -- Turbo Failure on T/O N4486V 11/03/84 -- Thermal (In Flight Loss of Control) N90233 12/06/84 -- Nose Over (Engine Out) N17VE 04/05/85 -- Loss of Control (Inverted) N8483Y 06/22/85 -- Fatal Stall-SPIN N82CG 07/08/85 -- Rough Engine (Power Loss) N717J 07/16/85 -- No Carb Heat (Power Loss) N5CJ 09/14/85 -- Gear Up through Wing (Hard Landing) N999TG 11/26/85 -- STALL FATAL N12YC 12/13/85 -- Aerobatics? FATAL N455JS 03/15/86 -- Canopy Opened in Flight Stall/Spin N99PT 04/18/86 -- Overweight Stall FATAL N4702Y 05/02/86 -- Fuel Pump Fail (Power Loss) N151RC 06/25/86 -- Pecautionary Landing N600CA 08/02/86 -- Stall (2 Pass) FATAL N49RW 08/16/86 -- Carb Problems Forced Landing N50WB 09/28/86 -- Hard Landing N47JJ 10/21/86 -- UNKNOWN N313RR 11/22/86 -- Engine Rough (Touch & GO) N3762S 12/13/86 -- Nose Up Pitch... Trim Tab Xcon N66996 01/25/87 -- Low Stall Spin (2 FATAL) N4346S 04/22/87 -- Hit Tractor (Runway Not Cleared) N75JL 06/27/87 -- No Power N2262N 08/22/87 -- Gusty Poor Construction (2 FATAL) N127AS 05/02/88 -- Ground Loop FATAL N3374G 10/12/88 -- First Flight 72 yr Pilot FATAL N4474U 11/05/88 -- Windshear N1033A 07/05/89 -- First Flight N1066 07/10/89 -- Power Failure (Fiberglass Contamination) N120TM 10/20/89 -- Land in High Winds (FATAL) N31123 04/18/90 -- High Speed TAXI Crash N359GS 05/26/90 -- Brake system failure N777BG 05/27/90 -- First Flight Uncontrolled FLight N36119 08/06/90 -- Fuel Selector Foot Operated N232CM 08/11/90 -- Low Flight (formation) hit power line N63BH 08/17/90 -- Rough Engine Magneto Failure N200RH 09/23/90 -- Exhaust Failure N570TS 04/20/91 -- Fuel exhaustion N420DC 05/14/91 -- Ground Loop N47KR 05/27/91 -- Student Pilot in KR Low ALT N651AC 01/04/92 -- Canopy Seperation (FATAL) N87JJ 01/24/92 -- Engine Rough Poor landing N1066 02/03/92 -- Canopy Seperation (FATAL) N183RB 05/27/92 -- Taxi Groundloop N3LL 06/07/92 -- Stall (FATAL) N21144 06/20/92 -- Power Loss/Stall/Crash N9667 06/30/92 -- Power Loss (FATAL) N377JK 07/14/92 -- Poor Climb Performance N983DB 08/01/92 -- Low Time Pilot Demo N86QT 08/02/92 -- Heart Attack(FATAL) N151TG 11/07/92 -- Carb Ice (Ellison) N302DC 12/25/92 -- Nose Gear fail N9HD 02/23/93 -- Engine Out PVC Intake? N2AL 07/17/93 -- Engine Out Inproper Coil N88PS 08/03/93 -- Flight into IMC N585D 08/05/93 -- Cable seperation N25DK 09/17/93 -- Power Loss (Fuel Exhaustion) N8SJ 10/31/93 -- Coolant Hose (Soob) N786RW 05/28/94 -- Fuel Bost Pump INOP N69TA 06/19/94 -- Stall (FATAL) N41MD 07/19/94 -- Power Loss (Dirty Posa) N121CW 08/23/94 -- Loss of Control (FATAL) N95RJ 11/12/94 -- Elevator/Control Failure (FATAL) N612W 01/18/95 -- Prop Thrown N54430 03/20/95 -- Power Loss on TO N22955 04/03/95 -- Loss of Prop Cotter Pin N49TF 04/06/95 -- Carb Upside down N49TK 06/08/95 -- Fuel Exhaustion (FATAL) N16626 08/20/95 -- Engine Fail (last insp '72) N9975A 09/28/95 -- Stall? (FATAL) N2CC 10/02/95 -- Overweight/AFT CG N14MR 10/29/95 -- Bounced/Gear Failure N57CC 11/07/95 -- Engine Fail first Flite(FATAL) N8019C 01/15/96 -- Crash/Burn (Unknown Cause) N395DS 02/17/96 -- Low Speed Low Level Slow Flight (FATAL) N85JV 11/06/96 -- Loss of Power on TO N7KR 04/06/97 -- Loss of Power (Fuel Exhaustion) N4GJ 04/06/97 -- Ground Loop (Solo Student Pilot) N9097E 09/21/97 -- Unknown (FATAL) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:46:33 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: NTSB Accident stats Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 04:13 PM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I recall this accident. I may have to check my plans again, but as > >I recall the plans call for a single piano hinge for the canopy so > >this report is inaccurate... or... I should change my hinge assignment. > > > >I had read that it was thought a bird strike may have occured. > > > >-- Ross > > > > Yea I think this NTSB report was inaccurate, I think I remember something > about the hinge being installed with wood screws rather than bolts and the > screws pulled out of the longeron. Bummer! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Oh my,... its 1998! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims That would make sense... I've got bolts. There was one other canopy seperation accident, perhaps that was a latch incident where the canopy came loose in flight. Makes windshields sound useful. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:22:14 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Ballistic chute questions??Pack wins Again!!(what's a Pack???) Ross Youngblood wrote: > > XZOSTD1 wrote: > > Does anyone have a chute installed in their KR? > Mr XZOSTD1, > Could you tell us your name? > > I thought that BRS would work with you to come up with > a design. The halyard location was one of the issues I > thought would be difficult to resolve. I'm curious as > to where you are attaching the chute. To the center > spar(s)? > > I think I may just buy a chute for me for about 1K, > instead. > > -- Ross I have posted a bit on this before, but I'll hit it again a bit since I am planning on a chute. I haven't talked to BRS yet, but I am thinking of putting it in the nose, beside my header tank. I have enough room if I get a custom package instead of the standard cylindrical package. The halyards will run down the outside of the fuselage, covered by one ply of glass and faired in with micro. They will attach to the main gear mount which I designed for a min. 5 G load. A secondary halyard mount to the upper engine mount plates to help raise the nose on deployment. It is about three times more expensive than a personal chute, but, if it works, it will provide better low altitude protection and will also take care of anyone silly enogh to ride with me. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:31:06 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Tail Wheel Spring - Titanium In a message dated 98-01-08 15:02:29 EST, Ross write: << I have seen one other "rod" implementation used for a tailwheel spring. Norm Rosenau's Firebird (on my website), used a titanium rod for a tailwheel boom. Turns out having a local titanium factory locally helps get the stuff. I understand it is hard to machine though.>> Ross: Any idea of size and length of the rod? How was the wheel attached to the boat and to the wheel fork? Can anybody give me the "Cliff Notes" on how to work with titanium, ie cutting, drilling, etc.? Thanks, Randy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 21:48:22 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Tapering Outer Main spar caps Hello KR Builders, I would like to share how I cut the tapers for the main spar caps. I consider it a personal triumph because this was a BIG deal that I thought was nearly impossible when I first started my KR but like the other "impossible" tasks that keep getting solved as I get to them, this one was ridiculously simple in the final analysis. I drew the tapers on the spar and cut them with a 7" circular saw to within 1/8" of the lines then planed them down to the lines using a power planer. If you've never used a power planer, you are missing out on a sweet experience. I bought the cheapie Black and Decker for $60. They're great for planing anything up to 3 1/4" width, like doors or other projects too. I clamped the spar cap to my workbench edge so the circular saw blade did not touch the bench then just cut it. One thing I have learned is to cut to near my cut line and either sand or plane to the line. This goes for any cut. - -Tom in Orlando ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:02:25 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Spar width errors in plans. Am I missing something on the plans? The width of the center spar is 2 5/32" and the width of the outer spar is 1 15/16". Considering the center and outer spars are sheeted on both sides for the KR-2S, with the two wing attach fittings each about 7/64" thickness, the outer spar plus WAF's is 1/16" too thick to fit between the WAF's on the center spar. I'm going to reduce the thickness of the outer spar by 1/16" to make it all fit right. The other error seems to be that the center spar is about 1/16" to 3/32" too thick to fit between the uprights in the fuselage. God, I hate having to second guess every measurement I come across and I've tried to avoid these little discrepencies but there's just so many of them. (I just had to kick this dead horse again because I wasn't around for the main slaughter session.) How have you guys handled these things? I hate having to fudge these types of things because I have to but my butt in the sling (seats) someday and it makes me nervous. I have to say that building a KR-2S is NOT like building a big model airplane. I've built 60 models, and I've never had the same feeling about any of them like the time I first located on the fuselage sides where my ass would be sitting. I ran my finger along the bottom longeron between the front and back spars and then it sunk in that I was going to be IN this one! Gulp! The nerve it takes to be a homebuider! - -Tom in Orlando ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:40:25 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: Aft Horz. Spar Bulkhead Dimensions > I believe I trusted that the large drawing was scaled properly, and > proportionally scaled the dimensions using the drawing. Thanks; this appears to be the general consensus. > What was the motivation for this lower doubler addition? Is there > somthing I didn't hear about? I just figured that this would double the contact point from the longerons to the stern post; again probably just over kill. This is the first (intentional) additional weight I've added, hence the effort to measure and record it. I read in Bingellis to always "think in terms of grams and ounces if you are shooting for a light a/c." I'm trying to build to the design weight as I will be using an 1835; I don't need another 140 mph airplane... thanks for the post! John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the top cross members Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:24:43 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. In a message dated 98-01-08 23:02:33 EST, you write: << Am I missing something on the plans? The width of the center spar is 2 5/32" and the width of the outer spar is 1 15/16". Considering the center and outer spars are sheeted on both sides for the KR-2S, with the two wing attach fittings each about 7/64" thickness, the outer spar plus WAF's is 1/16" too thick to fit between the WAF's on the center spar. I'm going to reduce the thickness of the outer spar by 1/16" to make it all fit right. >> The difference in width of the center spar and the outer spar is 2 5/32 - 1 15/16 = 7/32. Add the thickness of the two wing attach fittings on the outer spar, 2 x 7/64 = 7/32, and you make the outer spar the same thickness as the ceter spar. The center wing attach fittings now fit flush to the center spar and the outer wing attach fittings. Since you are adding the same thickness of webbing to the center spar and the outer spar, the net diference in dimensions remains constant. Therefore they will fit as drawn. Don't cut down your outer spar! Do the math, make yourself a sketch, and it will look better to you. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Louis MO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:47:02 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. At 11:24 PM 1/8/98 EST, you wrote: The difference in width of the center spar and the outer spar is 2 5/32 - 1 >15/16 = 7/32. Add the thickness of the two wing attach fittings on the outer spar, 2 x 7/64 = 7/32, and you make the outer spar the same thickness as the center spar. Dang it Rick I was almost done with my post and yours popped in! Oh well I was just to slow this time! Rick is right on all accounts, draw a picture, fit the pieces together (that's what I did) do what ever you can to make sure the plans are wrong before you start cutting your spars! My outer spars with shear webs and WAFs will slide right inside the WAFs on the center spar. So will yours. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:17:35 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Control Stops >I believe the book "Test Flying a Homebuilt Aircraft" covers some ideas >on making control stops. You could install them at the control stick >and near the rudder pedals I believe. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong. > > -- Ross > >Oscar Zuniga wrote: >> >> You wrote: >> >> >inspector noticed no control stops >> >> Houston, we have a problem. >> >> Installing control stops after the fact should be a most interesting >> problem. According to the dusty books that all the old dead guys wrote >> about control surfaces design, the control stops should be located at >> the control surface, not too close to the hinges (sorry Mark; I would be >> leery of putting the stops at the stick or rudder pedal end of the >> controls). That almost surely means getting out the saw and cutting in >> to get to the control horns to install stops. It's either that, or go >> ahead and try to get by with stops located in the cockpit somewhere. >> Not the best choice, but certainly an option. Since the design has never called for stops and thousands of KR's have been built without them, presumably other inspectors have approved not having them without any bad results. Would it be worth a shot to try to change this guy's mind rather than rebuilding the plane? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:17:31 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: KR2S Baggage >>> I am hoping to add a baggage tube behind the seats to allow me to carry >>> my golf clubs. The weight should be okay (25lbs) but I am sure if it >>> would have to drastic an effect on my CG. Anyone have any thoughts on >the feasibility? >> >>Golf Clubs? >>My rough feeling on this is that you are toast with regards to AFT CG >>on this. I think with some folks putting 1" spacers on the engine >>to get the CG right, there is not enough margin. > >I was thinking the same, you could put the clubs in front of the main spar >across the floor of the fuselage. Of course the fuselage may not be wide >enough to fit them, as I have no idea how long golf clubs are! I could >never figure out how chasing a little white ball could be so >interesting,..oh well! :o) > >PS If you are getting into homebuilts,..give up golfing or you will never >get it finished! Just Ask Jeb! :o) I just tried swinging a tape measure as if it were a putter, and the length was 35," but I'm 5'6." If you're taller and you widened the fuselage enough to put your clubs in front of the spar, the thing would look like a flying beach ball. Another possibility is an ad I once saw for a single golf club that's supposed to replace a whole set. It has a rachet device on the head that lets you set the angle to equal all the standard clubs. I'm sure serious golfers on this list are rushing for their airsickness bags at this point. . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:47:31 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Tail Wheel Spring - Titanium I will ask Norm next time I see him... he is part of the "Wing Nuts" Saturday morning breakfast crowd, but I have to get over there at 6:00AM to catch them. -- Ross BSHADR wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-08 15:02:29 EST, Ross write: > > << I have seen one other "rod" implementation used for a tailwheel > spring. Norm Rosenau's Firebird (on my website), used a titanium > rod for a tailwheel boom. Turns out having a local titanium factory > locally helps get the stuff. I understand it is hard to machine though.>> > > Ross: > > Any idea of size and length of the rod? > > How was the wheel attached to the boat and to the wheel fork? > > Can anybody give me the "Cliff Notes" on how to work with titanium, ie > cutting, drilling, etc.? > > Thanks, > > Randy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:49:48 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Tapering Outer Main spar caps Tom Andersen wrote: > > Hello KR Builders, > I would like to share how I cut the tapers for the main spar caps. I > consider it a personal triumph because this was a BIG deal that I > thought was nearly impossible when I first started my KR but like the > other "impossible" tasks that keep getting solved as I get to them, this > one was ridiculously simple in the final analysis. > I drew the tapers on the spar and cut them with a 7" circular saw to > within 1/8" of the lines then planed them down to the lines using a > power planer. > If you've never used a power planer, you are missing out on a sweet > experience. I bought the cheapie Black and Decker for $60. They're > great for planing anything up to 3 1/4" width, like doors or other > projects too. > I clamped the spar cap to my workbench edge so the circular saw blade > did not touch the bench then just cut it. One thing I have learned is > to cut to near my cut line and either sand or plane to the line. This > goes for any cut. > -Tom in Orlando Tom, This is the same technique I used. I didn't quite get within 1/8" using the jig described in the plans. The manual and I disagree on the statement: "Just run the spar caps through with the jig and perfectly tapered spar caps will result." About a year later, I bought a power planer for about $65 or so and did finally get perfectly tapered spar caps too. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:58:33 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. Tom Andersen wrote: > > Am I missing something on the plans? The width of the center spar is 2 > 5/32" and the width of the outer spar is 1 15/16". Considering the > center and outer spars are sheeted on both sides for the KR-2S, with the > two wing attach fittings each about 7/64" thickness, the outer spar > plus WAF's is 1/16" too thick to fit between the WAF's on the center > spar. I'm going to reduce the thickness of the outer spar by 1/16" to > make it all fit right. > The other error seems to be that the center spar is about 1/16" to 3/32" > too thick to fit between the uprights in the fuselage. > God, I hate having to second guess every measurement I come across and > I've tried to avoid these little discrepencies but there's just so many > of them. (I just had to kick this dead horse again because I wasn't > around for the main slaughter session.) > How have you guys handled these things? I hate having to fudge these > types of things because I have to but my butt in the sling (seats) > someday and it makes me nervous. > I have to say that building a KR-2S is NOT like building a big model > airplane. I've built 60 models, and I've never had the same feeling > about any of them like the time I first located on the fuselage sides > where my ass would be sitting. I ran my finger along the bottom > longeron between the front and back spars and then it sunk in that I was > going to be IN this one! Gulp! The nerve it takes to be a homebuider! > -Tom in Orlando Tom, Man... can I relate to this. I used a 3/32" plywood spacer under the wing attach fitting to get the wing attach fittings spaced correctly. I tapered the end, but one could argue that this technique creates a stress riser of sorts, so I don't recommend it... it's just what I did. Regarding the vertical uprights... I just used a hand plane to shave a bit off both insides to get a snug fit... BUT before doing this do some diagonal measurments to insure you have the spar perpendicluar to the longitunal axis of the fuselage... did I spell any of that correctly? I made several measurements... left the spar in, and did more measurements, shaved a bit of both sides of the vertical members and actually had to make spacers to get the alignment correct. FUN. Also, the aft center spar is shorter than the forward spar... don't do what I did and line one edge up with the fwd spar. I did this and discovered it months later when routing aileron cables. Agonized for a few weeks then cut the spar out... fixed the damage and re-installed the spar. Not Fun. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 01:06:46 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. Hmmm... I think the Plans are correct... however in my case something didn't come out right, and I ended up needing a shim. I think I was reluctant to cut any width from the outer spar. I will have to go out and measure all of this and check it with the plans to figure out what my rational was, and or check my builders log to see what I was doing. Hmmm... -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 11:24 PM 1/8/98 EST, you wrote: > The difference in width of the center spar and the outer spar is 2 5/32 - 1 > >15/16 = 7/32. Add the thickness of the two wing attach fittings on the > outer spar, 2 x 7/64 = 7/32, and you make the outer spar the same thickness > as the center spar. > > Dang it Rick I was almost done with my post and yours popped in! Oh well I > was just to slow this time! Rick is right on all accounts, draw a picture, > fit the pieces together (that's what I did) do what ever you can to make > sure the plans are wrong before you start cutting your spars! > > My outer spars with shear webs and WAFs will slide right inside the WAFs on > the center spar. So will yours. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Happy Holidays to Everyone! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #7 ***************************