From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 2:53 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #10 krnet-l-digest Monday, January 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 010 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:32:38 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? At 08:48 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >As I begin building my boat, I wonder if there has ever been any discussion or thought to making and using fiberglass fuselage skins bonded to the original spruce frame. I would think that the strength, weight etc would be close to plywood if a good clean job was done on them removing all excess resin. > >Any body ever consider it? > One way I could see this actually working is to wetout 3 or 4 layers of 8oz bid on a flat surface that is covered with wax paper or mylar. After all the layers of glass are wet out then apply a layer of peel ply. Let it cure and cut the glass panel to fit the fuselage sides and the flox it to the spruce frame! A few issue I can think of right off is how many layers of glass would it take to equal the plywood? Also a layer fiberglass cloth alone is not very efficient at taking loads, that's why we build parts using the composite sandwich method. If someone was to figure out how many layers of glass it would take to equal the plywood in strength then I think the fiberglass panel idea could be an interesting route! Just think how smooth the outside of the skin would be (the side that was wetout on the mylar)! Finishing could be easier! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:05:40 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress Report Netters! I was finally able to work on the project for the first time in 3 weeks! Woo Hoo! I spent about 4 hours on Saturday and another 5 hours today making good solid progress. Lets see,... I sanded and contoured all the filler back on the tail fillet (between horizonal and vertical stabs) and smoothed out all the filler on the tail surfaces. I shaped and sanded the area around the cockpit door to its final shape and did some touch up sanding and filling on various parts. I built my right outer main spar and I also added strips to the bottom of my brake pedals to help "feel" the pedal better. I started on routing all the fuel lines and install the check valve and other components. I need to stop by the parts store and pick up a fuel pump and shut off valve so I can finish up the fuel system next weekend. I am pretty darn lucky to have three other homebuilts in my hanger, if I have a question about how I should do something all I have to do is go look! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:19:36 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: Flight Test Plan Update Version 8 of my test plan is available at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator. The file is in Word 2.0 format, if you need another format just let me know and I'll send you a converted copy. If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, send me a return email with your request. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO (314) 477-1756 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:28:08 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR:John Roffey's Pics >John Roffey's rudder pedal and misc. pics are now on my site. > > >Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P >Claremore, OK >Building stretched and widened KR-2S > >KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com >http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org > >I just took a look at your website Brian. Thanks for posting the pics of my KR stuff. The work bench I took the pictures of the parts on is covered with mirror finished stainless steel sheet and I didn't realize how much glare or refection the flash was creating. Next time, I'll spread more towels on it. Thanks again John ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:46:30 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Ballast for flight test >> I'm considering the idea of a >> water tank designed to fit in the passenger seat and perhaps one >> forward on the floor and one aft at the baggage compartment. The idea >> is to be able to take off at gross with a forward CG then at a safe >> altitude shift the water aft for flight testing aft cg limits. >> -Peter Hudson- > >The idea seems to have some promise, but I think the water might be too >slow. How about a loop of cable (or similar) with your ballast weight >attached. Move it like an "endless" clothsline. You really wouldn't need very much weight if it were far enough back, so big tanks of water are unnecessary. I've been toying with a moveable weight and cable loop like the one above in the form of a slug sliding inside a pvc tube. That way the weight could not become entangled in something and unable to move forward again. I would also want a bungee cord on the weight to pull it forward if the cable mechanism somehow failed. A moveable weight system like this (with a smaller weight) could also be useful on a permanent basis, and could serve to adjust CG as the fuel burned or to optimize CG for 1 or 2 passengers. Actually, I will probably do the second function with a fixed weight installed or removed from the tailcone area when checking the elevator horns during preflight. This would be more idiot-proof, because when the weight was not in the tailcone, it could be attached to the instrument panel, covering a placard that said, "SOLO ONLY," and the weight could say "DUAL" written on it. This way, the CG could be in an optimum location during both solo and dual flight, particularly important on the KR-2, which is what I'm hoping to build. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:08:11 EST From: Willard561 Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? Ron Scott used fiberglass skins on old Ironsides, I will post the issue of Sport Aviation that discribed how he did it when I get a chance to look for it Bill Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:41:52, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Re: Yes i tried it on what was to be a tandum KR. but gave up when i ran into a bargan on a Sonerai II. The sides are still in the top of the garage. I used Divinicell between the upper and lower longerons and laid up 2 layers of 8 oz. e glass on a marlite table. Then vacuum bonded the sides to them. If you try this be sure to paint the wood with resin and let it kick then sand to rough the surface before bonding to the sides. Otherwise the wood will wick the resin away from the joint. I was going to use one layer of glass inside once the boat was assembled. I can't remember what they weighed but i think it was a lot less than sides made with plywood. I didn't paint the wood and can see some voids at some of rhe joints. This could be fixed but probibly won't. Still they seem hell for stout and are slick as glass. Jean N4DD Broken Arrow,OK ycgb97a@prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:54:44 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? >>As I begin building my boat, I wonder if there has ever been any discussion >or thought to making and using fiberglass fuselage skins bonded to the >original spruce frame. I would think that the strength, weight etc would be >close to plywood if a good clean job was done on them removing all excess >resin. >> >>Any body ever consider it? >> > >One way I could see this actually working is to wetout 3 or 4 layers of 8oz >bid on a flat surface that is covered with wax paper or mylar. After all >the layers of glass are wet out then apply a layer of peel ply. Let it cure >and cut the glass panel to fit the fuselage sides and the flox it to the >spruce frame! > >A few issue I can think of right off is how many layers of glass would it >take to equal the plywood? Also a layer fiberglass cloth alone is not very >efficient at taking loads, that's why we build parts using the composite >sandwich method. > >If someone was to figure out how many layers of glass it would take to equal >the plywood in strength then I think the fiberglass panel idea could be an >interesting route! Just think how smooth the outside of the skin would be >(the side that was wetout on the mylar)! Finishing could be easier! The easiest way to figure strength and stiffness would be to try making some small pieces and compare them with aircraft plywood. Presumably something as stiff as an equal-sized piece of plywood and no heavier could substitute for plywood, and would be a heck of a lot more weatherproof. Plus, no scarfing! Composite Aircraft Construction discusses a design that uses heavy paper or think cardboard in between layers of glass to provide spacing for greater rigidity, the same way that foam provides rigidity in the composite sandwiches we use. This might be a way to make it more rigid without more weight. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:50:44 EST From: JEHayward Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? In a message dated 98-01-11 21:48:19 EST, you write: << One way I could see this actually working is to wetout 3 or 4 layers of 8oz bid on a flat surface that is covered with wax paper or mylar. After all the layers of glass are wet out then apply a layer of peel ply. Let it cure and cut the glass panel to fit the fuselage sides and the flox it to the spruce frame! >> How about using Clark foam or some such for the sandwich. I think that's about a quarter inch thick.... don't know if anyone makes an eighth inch thick sheet. If vacuum bagging were used it would be as nice as the Diehl skins. Don't know how difficult it might be to get the sides curvature right. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:15:01 -0500 From: msharkey@softarc.com (Mike Sharkey) Subject: Re(2): KR: Accident Stats krnet-l@teleport.com,Internet writes: >The published KR stall speed is actually better than that of a clean 172, and >just 3 mph higher than a 172 with full flaps -- the KR also has a better glide >ratio when the engine dies. Tthe problem may be that people in all planes >tend to panic when they lose an engine, maybe because they never get practice >at it after they get their ticket. Is that so?....I was under the impression that the "clean" stall speed (KR2) was somewhere around 50-55 MPH or so (I read that somewhere...I'll try to locate the article)...dunno for sure...anyway, with respect to stalling after an engine failure, I've always been drilled to EXPECT an engine failure on EVERY take off, and to this day, I always do. I always fly under the presumption that the luxury of power is a temporary condition. Mabey that's a bit of an uptite attitude, but it's kept me alive so far. The point is, unless there is a serious control problem with the aircraft, there is no excuse for not maintaining sufficient air speed after an engine failure, maintaining appropriate air speed is the most fundimental skill required for flight under ANY curcumstances, in my opinion, if one can't do that, one shouldn't be flying in the first place Mike Sharkey X11 Development SoftArc Inc. http://www.softarc.com/~msharkey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:48:15 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? If I remember reading my "plastics" books the petrolium produts used in the formulation of epoxy may give of a slight smell similar to urera[sp?]. I recall that my aeropoxy did have a slight urine smell to it if you whiffed it just right. It turns out that some of the molecules are very similar, although not identical. I don't know if thats what you are smelling with the T-88 however. -- Ross John Bouyea wrote: > > I'm keeping my resins in a "warm box, a cabinet in the garage with a light > bulb. The thermometer shows 68 - 75 F. > > I'm noticed that both T-88 and Aeropoxy PH3660 hardeners both take on a > very harsh smell some time (2 months?) after the container is opened. I'm > stopped using that container at that point due to the possibility that it > has "gone funny" on me. > > Anyone know why this happens? If not, I'll call System3 on Monday & report > back to the list. > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - fitting the top cross members > Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:51:40 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Ballast for flight test There was an approach used for another kitplane (I think it was the Velocity). It used a weight on a slider which was actuated by a chain or screw system (I don't recall which). This way fore and aft CG situation could be simulated in flight. In my younger sailplane days I used to grab a couple of 15# metal plates and sit them in the back of the 2-33, this was back when I was 14, and was about 100 pounds lighter :). But this weight was not intended to move about. -- Ross Peter Hudson wrote: > > Hi gang, > > So I was thinking about flying KRs and flight tests and such. (It's a > ways off but it's fun to think about it!) I'm considering the idea of a > water tank designed to fit in the passenger seat and perhaps one > forward on the floor and one aft at the baggage compartment. The idea > is to be able to take off at gross with a forward CG then at a safe > altitude shift the water aft for flight testing aft cg limits. I would > plan a way to dump the water fast in case of trouble or transfer it > forward again. > I can't help but picture an almost passenger looking water tank > getting passed around the KRnet community for flight testing. > > Any thoughts? > > -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:28:29 +0100 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: KR: News-letters My apolgies in advance if my question is trivial. I've read many times on KRNet about some news-letters. How can I get them? Is it automatic when you buy the plans, or should I register somewhere? By the way, there is somebody out-there that have some unused set of KR2 / KR2S plans to sell? Cheers, Michele - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:51:04 EST From: KMcken7414 Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? I have a question. What is flox, and how is it done? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:16:16 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: NLF Thoughts Donald Reid wrote: > > I had to work this weekend, but it was slow and I had a chance to do > some number crunching on the NLF(1)-0115 airfoil and I want to pass on > what I found. I forgot to mention one or two things. Anyone planning on this type of airfoil should also consider ailerons and flaps that will reflex up in flight. If you look at the profile of the airfoil, the trailing edge points down a little. This is what causes the high pitch moment and helps give a high lift coefficient. High pitch moment results in a higher trim drag, especially if you need to use a wide CG range. There is no such thing as a free lunch, each airfoil is a collection of problems and solutions. Each one is designed for one specific mission in life and will not work well in all situations. The last point is that I don't know what the real flying characteristics will be. The electronic windtunnels, especially the simple one that I used, do not do a good job on predicting airflow separation and they just sort of guess at drag. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:22:18 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? Micheal Mims wrote: > >As I begin building my boat, I wonder if there has ever been any discussion > > or thought to making and using fiberglass fuselage skins bonded to the > > original spruce frame. > If someone was to figure out how many layers of glass it would take to equal > the plywood in strength then I think the fiberglass panel idea could be an > interesting route! I looked at that one some time ago and answered on the net. It turns out that one ply of 6 oz glass is almost as strong in shear as the 3/32" mah. plywood. Since the glass is so thin, any excessive sanding in a critical area would reduce the strength significantly, so 2 or 3 plies of 6 oz glass, layed up on the bias, should work fine. Test a few samples to destruction and see which is stronger and lighter. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 06:27:15 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Seat belts/harnesses MikeT wrote: >and even seatbelts with airplane-style buckles for less than $20. > I have questions about this, too. I noticed some outstanding full harnesses in the Summit Racing catalog, for prices way less than in the aero catalogs. Why the big disparity in price? If it's good enough for a racing car... Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 06:30:41 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Compass MikeT wrote: >Browsing the latest JC Whitney catalog, I found a number of things that look >interesting, such as lots of low-priced instruments Sorry I forgot to mention this in my other post; there is a nice looking in-dash 'wet' compass in the Whitney catalog as well, and even with lighted dial. Of course costs way less than a standard Airpath. Wonder if it would be good enough for use in a homebuilt? Why not? Maybe doesn't include means of adjusting/swinging? Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:38:03 +0100 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? KMcken7414 wrote: > > I have a question. What is flox, and how is it done? My knowledge is from reading, and not practical (I'm getting the drawings), so take this informations with caution. Flox is a mixture of cotton fiber and resin, and it is used, for instance, when you need to laminate sharp edges (fiberglass don't allow you to glass a sharp edge without making voids and air bubbles). This highly detailed (!) drawing shuld be clarificator !! glass | V ===================|| ===================|| FFFFFFFFFFFFF LLLLL|| FFFFFFFFFFFFFF LLLL||<--glass FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF LLL|| FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF LL|| A A | | foam flox Michele - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 06:38:41 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Ballast for flight test Peter wrote: > I can't help but picture an almost passenger looking water tank >getting passed around the KRnet community for flight testing. > >Any thoughts? > Yeah- can we nickname the dummy tank "Randy"? ;o) Very interesting idea. Good use for those recycled fuel tanks that people have made, then didn't fit or got discarded for whatever reason. Would you envision transferring the water with a squeeze bulb, or what? Might get kind of busy with the bulb if things start going south in a hurry...;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:08:49 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? > > If someone was to figure out how many layers of glass it would take to equal > > the plywood in strength then I think the fiberglass panel idea could be an > > interesting route! > > I looked at that one some time ago and answered on the net. It turns > out that one ply of 6 oz glass is almost as strong in shear as the 3/32" > mah. plywood. Since the glass is so thin, any excessive sanding in a > critical area would reduce the strength significantly, so 2 or 3 plies > of 6 oz glass, layed up on the bias, should work fine. Test a few > samples to destruction and see which is stronger and lighter. > -- > Don Reid > Bumpass, Va. > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm So why didnt you go with it? Rich Parker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:49:16 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? At 08:51 AM 1/12/98 EST, you wrote: >I have a question. What is flox, and how is it done? > Its a mixture or epoxy and milled cotton, it is used for structural bonding and to make sharp corners in composite construction. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh my,... its 1998! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:54:29 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: Re: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? Spot on Martin! I just got off the phone with Dick at System 3. Due to the increasing "head space" in the bottles, the hardener off-gases it's some of the more volatile component(s) which collects in the captured air. The fact that I'm storing the product in a warm environment accentuates the whole situation. You can find more info @ http://www.systemthree.com In a nutshell, it should be ok... Thanks for your help folks! John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the top cross members Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Martin Mulvey > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Re: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? > Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 12:45 AM > > Hi all, > > I believe the smell you are noticing is just the resins in their liquefied > state. You have them stored in a heated cabinet and they have been opened. I > notice the same (I think) smell when I have them enclosed for a while. No > need to get concerned. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:29:53 EST From: Kr2dream Subject: Re: KR: Compass Be careful - it might be a Chinese unit. The Chinese altimiters look just like the United units but looks are deceiving. They have been tested to be many hundred feet off. As one chinese importer told me "It doesn't make any difference, you can see how high you are anyhow!" Cheap doesn't always mean just a lower price. Bob Lasecki Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:12 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? Richard Parker wrote: > > > > If someone was to figure out how many layers of glass it would take to > > > equal the plywood in strength then I think the fiberglass panel idea could > > > be an interesting route! > > > > I looked at that one some time ago and answered on the net. It turns > > out that one ply of 6 oz glass is almost as strong in shear as the 3/32" > > mah. plywood. > So why didnt you go with it? > > Rich Parker I might on the next one. The main reason is that I knew some stuff when I started this project and I am learning more and more all the time. The other reason is that plywood is easy to work with. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:53:38 EST From: KMcken7414 Subject: Re: KR: Re: fiberglass skins?? I am new to the KR's and still learning. My question is this. After covering the sides of the fuselage with ply, do you then go over it with glass and resin or is there foam included in this? Thanks for the input. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:40:28 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Why does T-88 start looking weird? John Bouyea wrote: > > Spot on Martin! > > I just got off the phone with Dick at System 3. Due to the increasing > "head space" in the bottles, the hardener off-gases it's some of the more > volatile component(s) which collects in the captured air. The fact that > I'm storing the product in a warm environment accentuates the whole > situation. > > You can find more info @ http://www.systemthree.com > > In a nutshell, it should be ok... > > Thanks for your help folks! > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - fitting the top cross members > Hillsboro, Oregon > > ---------- > > From: Martin Mulvey > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: KR: Re: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? > > Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 12:45 AM > > > > Hi all, > > > > I believe the smell you are noticing is just the resins in their > liquefied > > state. You have them stored in a heated cabinet and they have been > opened. I > > notice the same (I think) smell when I have them enclosed for a while. No > > need to get concerned. > > I've noticed that the hardner in my T-88 has become thicker and darker in color. It's like cold honey and about the same color. The strength seems fine and it mixes fine with the resin. By the way, the glue mixer gun which has 8oz tubes is a great way to insure 50/50 mixing of even the smallest batches. I found it especially useful when it came time to skin the fuse sides and then the fuse bottom, since you have to lay a bead which is about 100' long including all the cross pieces. It lays a bead about 1/16" diameter which is optimum for 5/8" glue cover under pressure. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:06:13 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Why does T-88 start looking weird? At 04:40 PM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've noticed that the hardner in my T-88 has become thicker and darker >in color. It's like cold honey and about the same color. >> Something else for you t-88 mixers, sometimes the resin will look as though it has crystallized. If this happens you can set the bottle of resin in a pan of water that is around 130 degrees and it will clear back up. Important NOTE: You should not mix and or use any resin that appears to be crystallized! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh my,... its 1998! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:30:31 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Break System Question [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [DAN469 ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------794BDF3215FB748359E2B600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- KRNET-L Administrator !!! REMEMBER POSTS GO TO !!! krnet@krnet.org !!! KRNET-L@teleport.com !!! rossy@teleport.com !!! NOT krnet@krnet.org !!! http://www.krnet.org - --------------794BDF3215FB748359E2B600 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by mail1 for krnet (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Mon Jan 12 14:12:50 1998) X-From_: krnet-l-owner Sun Jan 11 10:01:27 1998 Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id KAA29490; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:01:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199801111801.KAA29490@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [DAN469 ] >From krnet-l-owner Sun Jan 11 10:01:22 1998 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.177]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29453 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:01:16 -0800 (PST) From: DAN469 Message-ID: <2e434238.34b908d7@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:00:54 EST To: KRNET-L@teleport.com Subject: BRAKES Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) I am presently building a KR2S and am having trouble with the brake master cylinder installation. My rudder pedals were fabricated from tubing and are hung from above and I have no ideas on the linkage to the brake cylinders. I would like to have toe brakes but do not want to put pressure on the rudder when I apply the brakes. I am interested on how others have solved this problem. Dan Shervheim Dan@aol.com - --------------794BDF3215FB748359E2B600-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:34:05 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 07:47 PM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote: > >PG21 of my '86 vintage plans shows the outer fwd spar with webbing > >for 12-1/2" on both sides inboard. The fwd webbing on the outer fwd > >spar does not continue past this point. > > > >The aft spar has webbing only over the 2nd and 3rd verticle members. > > > >So the FWD spar does have webbing on both sides of the fitting, but > >the aft spar does not. At least according to my version of the plans. > > > > Yep I think your right, also while at the hanger today I fit my outer spar > caps, two pieces of 3/32 ply and the two WAFs into the WAFs on the center > spar just to double check. It fit perfectly! There was a few thousands > clearance but the fit is what I call perfect! Man I don't know what I did > wrong but it worked! :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike, I think it is clear that I hosed up someplace... but I haven't gone out to measure and determine where. I suspect my outer spars are a smidgen too thick. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:35:19 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. Austin Clark wrote: > > Ross wrote> > >>PG21 of my '86 vintage plans shows the outer fwd spar with webbing > >>for 12-1/2" on both sides inboard. The fwd webbing on the outer fwd > >>spar does not continue past this point. > >> > >>The aft spar has webbing only over the 2nd and 3rd verticle members. > >> > >>So the FWD spar does have webbing on both sides of the fitting, but > >>the aft spar does not. At least according to my version of the plans. > >> > Michael wrote> > >Yep I think your right, also while at the hanger today I fit my outer spar > >caps, two pieces of 3/32 ply and the two WAFs into the WAFs on the center > >spar just to double check. It fit perfectly! There was a few thousands > >clearance but the fit is what I call perfect! Man I don't know what I did > >wrong but it worked! :o) > > If you are building a KR2, this is correct. If you are building a KR2S, all > the spars have webbing the full length, on both sides. This is one of those > 'gotchas' that appear in notes on the supplemental drawings. If you are > building a KR2S, Check drawing W1, spar details for the KR2S, Drawn in > 1993. Even this drawing can confuse you. In one place, it calls out '4 > important changes in the spar details' and the webbing change is NOT noted > here. The note about the webbing appears in ANOTHER PART of the drawing. > Austin Clark > Pascagoula, MS > http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ I had an EAA tech counselor puzzled about the outer spars only having webbing on one side... so it might be a good idea to put the webbing on both sides anyway. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:34:31 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: News-letters Michele Bucceri wrote: > > I've read many times on KRNet about some news-letters. > How can I get them? Is it automatic when you buy the plans, or should I > register somewhere? > - ------------------- The KR newsletter is $20.00 year. All available back issues are $85.00 but most issues are missing and unavailable. At least when I ordered the back issues there were only a few issues before 1990. Send your check to KR Newsletter 624 West University Drive, Suite 199 \denton, TX 76201 Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:40:35 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) Dennis Ambrose wrote: > > At 08:57 PM 1/7/98 -0800, you wrote: > >At 11:19 PM 1/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> Ross: > >> As I am only a KR "Buyer" and not a KR "Flyer" yet take this at face value > >only, please. > >> > >> My airplane had a Hapi 1835 engine, an Ellison T.B.I. and 1/4 fuel line > >GRAVITY FED ONLY from the header tank and the previous owner said he could > >not run it "flat out" without the boost pump on............... > > > >There have been many documented cases of the Dragonfly guys having trouble > >with the Ellison and 1/4 inch lines, don't do it! You need a 3/8 line from > >the header tank to the carb if you want to run it on gravity alone! > >Otherwise you will need a pump to achieve optimum performance. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > >Happy Holidays to Everyone! > > > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > Mike: > > Did you not read the whole post? > > Regards dennis (in Toronto) As an update... I checked my Ellison manual and the recommended fuel pressure is from 1/2-3psi. It might just be possible to get 1/2psi from the header tank with some ram air into the vent. However, a boost pump is still on the hit list for the header. Again. The wing tanks have independant Facet fuel pumps so this fuel (11Gal ea) is provided under pressure to the Ellison. I'm just wondering if I can use the 5 gal reserve tank. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:45:54 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: News-letters At 02:34 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >The KR newsletter is $20.00 year. All available back issues are $85.00 >but most issues are missing and unavailable. At least when I ordered >the back issues there were only a few issues before 1990. > Send your check to KR Newsletter > 624 West University Drive, Suite 199 > \denton, TX 76201 > Gee I wonder if the issues I have (1 - 70) can be copied and redistributed?? If they are considered "unavailable" :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh my,... its 1998! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:50:53 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Rick's Master-work - an ungrateful comment! Rick, I like your test plan. It is in line with what I've read in Vaughn Askue's book and gives me food for thought. Another tip from a friend who test flew a couple of homebuilts for people... in a nutshell. TAXI test the airplane for a while. Try to rattle all the nuts and bolts loose. Then get a flashlight and go over the plane looking to be sure you didn't. (General inspection) Do this again. (Several times?) Then do a high speed taxi test.... including some full power runups. Get out the flashlight. The point was to take it slow and be methodical... sort of in line with Ricks test plan. In fact the FAA GADO I called back in '89 suggested that I could do taxi tests and even high speed taxi tests on the plane before the inspection. The idea here was that I could leagly do anything I wanted, AS LONG AS THE WHEELS NEVER LEFT THE GROUND. The benefit to this is that you have found several bugs in the aircraft before inspection. The downside, is that if you do have an incident, you will look like a fool for flying the plane before getting the FAA inspection. Thats just houw the NTSB report will read. So I wouldn't recommend any high speed tests. Also, that was 9 years ago and in another state, might be wise to check with your local GADO on this. EagleGator wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-11 01:59:33 EST, you write: > > << Reading Rick's test-plan should have given me a similar shine, > but it didn't. So I guess I think it's so cool and low-key and detailed, > I get bored. >> > > Actually, and perhaps unfortunately, that is the essemce of test planning and > flight testing. The plan covers every miniscule detail of the events that > will occur on the ground and in the air, and then you execute the tests in > accordance with your plan. It can be tedious, and yes, at times, boring. > That's the nature of the beast. The main reason I started the plan last year > before my "airplane" was even a "boat" was so that I could finish it before > the excitement of getting close to finishing the airplane pushed me to leave > things out that I know need to be covered. I know how that goes. > > But here is the up side. All that planning and preparation you do will allow > you to make the most of your airborne time, and perhaps most importantly, > prepare you to recognize a bad situation developing. You won't have to think > about what to do because you have reviewed and practiced the procedure in > accordance with your plan. One such situation that we discussed here recently > -- fuel starvation/engine failure on takeoff -- is a situation you will have > thought long and hard about. How high do I have to be before I can turn back > to the runway? What can I do to maybe get the engine started again, and how > high do I need to be to even consider this option? What kind of obstructions > are off the end of the runway? Do I need to plan an immediate shallow turn on > takeoff to point toward and emergency landing area? What are my "immediate > action procedures" for engine failure on takeoff? You will have the answers > to all of those questions before you even get into the airplane, because you > have PLANNED for it. And your test plan should cover every other medium to > high risk contingency you can think of with the same amount of detail. An > "exciting" test program (one involving mishaps) is quite often tied to an > inadequate plan. > > So, no apologies, Brian. Please try and slog through it, even if it is > between Test Plan reading induced naps ;-} and please add your insights as you > are able. We will all benefit form each other's experience. > > Cheer! > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #10 ****************************