From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, January 18, 1998 6:19 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #17 krnet-l-digest Sunday, January 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:38:54 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Re: Water condensation in spars Mike, Interesting argument. I will look into this. I guess living in Arizona when I built the wings, might have made me miss this one, I will check into it. I know that Tony Bengelis recommends placing drain plugs in the fuselage, to allow moisture to drain, but don't recall anything on the spars. I will sniff that one out. -- Thanks Ross MikeT nyc wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-14 02:56:23 EST, you write: > > >> These holes also help water to run out that accumulates from condensation, > >so > >> I would put them at the bottom of the aft shear web, in the middle, which > >may > >> be what you mean. > >> > >> Mike Taglieri > > >Uhh... My understanding is that these holes are to allow for equalizing > >pressure at altitude so that the shear webbing doesnt "pop" off the > >spar caps at altitude. I hadn't thought of the condensation angle, but > >even living in Oregon, I don't expect much water to come pooring out of > >my > >spars. > > I don't recall where I read this, but as you fly up high, air vents out from > the cells. When you descend again, air goes back in, but it's not the same > air, and it has a fresh load of water vapor that condenses when the wings cool > in the evening. This happens over and over again. If you provide a way for > the air to go in and out but not for the moisture to get out, you could > accumulate quite a bit of water in there. > > Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:44:05 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Re:Power on stalls. MikeT nyc wrote: > There's no reason to do power-on stalls, so I > don't care how vicious they are. > > Mike Taglieri I was lead to believe that power-on stalls are slightly similar to the flight configuration at take off. During take off, if I was distracted, say by the canopy opening, or some crazy landing on the intersecting runway, I might let my attitude control lapse, of course, this might only happen in a pitch sensitive aircraft. If such a situation might occur, I would be very interested in the power-on stall behavior of the aircraft. Seeing as I am easily distracted. Try telling the instructor on your next BFR that you aren't interested in power-on stalls. They actually are kinda fun (with enough altitude). -- Ross What was I talking about? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:53:15 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Flight Training Program Ron Lee wrote: > Most people are required to have a tailwheel endorsement if they want to > fly a taildragger with no experience. IMO, it would be idiotic to fly > a KR taildragger without being properly trained to fly it. Well the student pilot statistic in the NTSB report suggested that I hint that a taildragger endorsement is a good idea. I agree with you! Beyond this... I'm trying to decide how I will get 100hours of taildragger time between now and the time my KR wants me to go flying, or can I make do with 20-30. > I doubt anything besides tailwheel landings and take-offs is of any value. > Once you are airborne, a Citabria flies like a Cessna 172. I agree partially, however some slow flight, and SLIP practice at altitude would be a good thing. I slipped an Aeronca Champ, and it will fly sideways pretty good, seemed to have gread rudder authority. A 152 isn't as much fun to SLIP. But, I think you get enough of this during the 10 hour transition to start with, but it might be a good idea to drill some of this stuff. (I'm thinking that if you make a practice session out of the airwork too, you can improve your proficiency in less hours saving $$$). > I do not think it would be wise for a low-time pilot to fly solo from > the back seat, even if the plane allows it. I had planned on flying > a Champ from the back seat WITH the instructor in front. Weather > cancelled that flight and one in a Citabria. This might be a much better idea. You get the visual reference cues, with the backup of someone who knows what they are doing. Good idea. > One more input. Ross suggested starting early with the tailwheel training. > Excellent idea. I spent four months looking for another taildragger to > become proficient in main wheel landings. > > There is another training point....be sure to learn main wheel landings > > Ron Lee Both instructors I went up with were building me up for both weel and three-point landings. The first was a wheel landing first instructor, and the second seemed to be a three-point first instructor. This may have been due to the aircraft, I dunno, but I think you will be sure to get some exposure to both. However I have heard that the KR is a wheel landing kind of taildragger. Three pointers work if you get long front legs.. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:03:23 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Re: Canopy height Mike, My KR's top deck is not stock. I did all the layups myself. I made cardboard cutouts. The distance from the inst-panel x member to the top of the panel is about 9", and the distance from the longeron at the canopy aft end to the top of the canopy I estimated is about 20". In my case, I originally had a much lower canopy height (about 16" I would guess.) This gave me the standard KR-2 side profile, and with the cardboard mockup, I felt I had great over the nose visibility. Then I read Vaughn Askue's book regarding test flying, and decided I needed more headroom if I was going to leave the option for a 'chute and helmet. Now the side profile has an interesting rise to it that I decided I liked. It kinda bulges and comes back in, reminding me of a Cobra helicopter. You might be able to see this from the pictures on the webpage, but then again, maybe not. -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:37 PM 1/14/98 -0700, you wrote: > As for the main wheel landings...do not use brakes at all. As for the flying > >KR Taildragger macho dudes, is it not prefered to d a main wheel landing so > you can see where you are going? > > > > Well once again I am not a KR flying macho dude but when I flew with Troy in > his KR the over the nose thing on landing was no big deal. I think it one > of those KR traits that is being blown out of proportion. > > >PS Mike, I just looked at the pic of Gerge Bell in your KR. Besides the > >great looking canopy, it appears you actually have some head room. Was he > sitting on a seat or is your canopy higher than a typical KR? > > > > Its much higher, and yes he is sitting in the seat and he is 6 foot tall! > My fwd t-deck bulkhead is 19 inches tall and the windshield bow is 20 > inches. These measurements taken from the top longeron to the outside of > the windshield and t-deck. I don't know how tall a stock KR2 is above the > longeron but it looks to be about half of what mine is. Anyone out there > have one handy to measure? Ross run out to your garage and take your tape > measure dude! :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:07:55 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Bolt Installation Austin, I worried about this for some time, then I saw a KR which won some awards, with the crude solution. (Go to http://www.krnet.org then click on the N8575C link on the left pane. This will take you to a page, at the bottom is a photo of what I'm talking about). I decided that this large chunk looks bad, so I cut a channel as you are considering, then to make it nice, I floxed it so I wouldn't get any delamination, and dremeled out a cavity for the bolt. It is a REAL pain to get the bolts in and out. I will use cotter pins and castelated nuts, and don't plan to flox or fill the hole at this time. I had a chair drop on me elevator, and I had to remove a fitting and do some work, so access to the bolts came in handy. I think future hangar rash cases might also mean the same thing. - -- Regards Ross Austin Clark wrote: > > I have been working on mating the elevator to the horizontal stabilizer. I > glassed the concave part of the hor. stab. tonight. I am trying to figure > a way to install the hinge bolts and the best idea I have come up with is > to notch the rounded part of the elevator and create a chamber for them to > rest in until I am ready to bolt up the hinges. I think I can use needle > nose pliers to work them into the hinges. Once in, I would fill up the > little chamber and glass over it. This would prevent the bolt from backing > out of the hinge if the nut were to come off. What have others done? > Maybe someone has a photo of their method on their web page. > > Thanks, > > Austin Clark > Pascagoula, MS > http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:12:06 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Bell Crank and Rudder Control Horn Made me look. 1996 Vintage plans Page 41 Drawing 39. 6.75" L overall 6.00" Thimble holes #12 dia (3" radius) Hinge (short side) is 1.5" centered on #12 hinge bolt hole. Made from .125 6061 1" channel. You get the rough idea. MikeT nyc wrote: > > I just noticed that various pages in the manual show the elevator bellcrank > and the rudder control horn in place on the plane, but I can't find measured > drawings showing how to make them. Am I losing my mind or are they shown > somewhere else? > > Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:15:41 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Flight Training Program KMcken7414 wrote: > > why not just make it a tri-gear? No fun in that... 8 years ago when I started, the fixed taildragger came out after I installed the retracts. Diehl did have a tri-gear version I think, but I wasn't aware of it. Plus, what's the fun in a tri-gear. Taildragger landings are only part of the transition flight training plan I have in mind. Also some dual time in other responsive airplanes are in the works. Removing the taildragger portion only removes 10hours of instruction. Remember, I'm a low time pilot (80+hours). - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:22:16 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: New Member Woodbridge, Gary wrote: > 2) What about composite construction books? What do you recommend? There is a book on composite construction sold by Wicks and Aircraft Spruce which was originally part of the LONG-EZE training package from Rutan. I loaned my copy to a fellow EAA member, so I don't recall the title. You can get it seperatly or as part of the "perido skiff" trainign package. I think it is somthing like "moldless composite construction". It's not really a book, more like a large format hand out, but it is really good. Covers hot-wiring, micro, flox etc. - -- Ross > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:30:01 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: V-Tail I remember that there was one sailplane kit manufacture Ryan Aircraft which made the HP18, and my favorite RS-15 kit and I believe these both had V-tails. Perhaps there are some slipstream issues with the tractor engine configuration that makes trimming the aircraft messier. This sure seems to make yawstrings ineffective on the KR. - -- Ross Paul Eberhardt wrote: > > Has anyone ever considered using a V tail (Bonanza style) on their KR? > You don't see many V tailed kit planes, but they seem to be popular in > sailplanes. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:38:19 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Spins I think that Rick Junkin did some playing with a scale model, and found that it would flat spin easily. There were also some anticdotal discussions on this about a year ago. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Just a question here, while we're talking about recognizing incipient > stalls and such. Has anybody out there spun a KR? Anybody have any > experience with spins or spin recovery in the KR? > > Thanks > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:44:45 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: need KR stall spd. for NLF project Steven A Eberhart wrote: > > Ashok would like to know the stall speed flying KR-2 and KR-2S's with the > RAF48 airfoil. Also, what is the general concensus about what the stall > speed of a KR-2S should be with the new NLF airfoil. THis would be an > unflapped speed as flaps can be used to lower it if necessary. > > We are using 180 mph as the target cruise speed. Should this be lower? > > Steve Eberhart Evansville, IN > newtech@newtech.com No, I think a cruise speed of Mach 1.8 will be fine for the NLF. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:06:17 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Re: Progress Report (N541RY) Stall Strips, Instruments OK, here is my last post of the day. I am going to try and read more before posting in an effort to keep the traffic on KRNET down ... even I am getting tired of sifting through KRNET email.. go figure! Instruments sources $$$: SKY SPORTS -- Catalog has terrific color photos, but price is comparable to others. I have heard one or two negative things about them, but I have been happy with my fuel sending units so far (never powered up yet). WICKS/ACS -- Good selection, pretty good prices. On instruments.. seems that WYSIWYG. On avionics CALL! There is some type of scam going on where companies can't print the price they can sell the stuff for. Century Instruments Witicha KS -- Price list on rebuild of your core, and/or a refurb instrument. My take on this... you may save $25.00 but the new instrument cases are plastic and WEIGH MUCH LESS! I have three instrument cores I am thinking trying to have rebuilt, but they weigh about 20 pounds. (Altimeter, OLDDDD GYRO, Altimeter pieces). My new altimeter is about 1/8th the weight of the old one. In general if you want to beat Aircraft Spruce you will have to look in trade-a-plane. Most instrument companies are at about what Aircraft Spruce/Wicks sell stuff for, within $20.00. Stall Strips My point on washout was to keep someone from doing all the changes to the basic KR without considering impact on other flight characteristics. I like the post RE stall strips and low washout, but I'm still sticking with the wings I've built. N541RY Progress report. I got my 22Ga wire and finished soldering up my wiring harness. I like this kinda stuff, but if you don't make sure you buy your avionics with the harness, it takes time to build it, ohm it out, and heat shrink everything. And, I will have to have it tested at a shop when I'm done, don't want a Transponder that lies! Aircraft Spruce is selling the Potter Brumfield breakers for about $5.00 ea. This is a screaming deal. I have seen them listed for from $8-$12.00 previously, so I don't know whats going on. I have replaced the following fuses with these nifty gadgets. 1) 40A Push/Pull Ckt Breaker (Alternator to Main BUS) (This is more $$) 2) 15A Pop out Ckt Breaker (Compu-Fire Ign module) 3) 5A Pop out Ckt Breaker (Future) (It was only $5.00) 4) 4A Pop out Ckt Breaker (Terra TX760 Comm Radio) 5) 2A Pop out Ckt Breaker (Terra TX250 Transponder & AT300 Encoder) I've got some fuse holders too, but haven't gone back and assigned current loads to everything yet. Anyone know what the current load of those Facet fuel pumps is? So, at amy rate, I will try to just post one email/day/session after I read all the emails.. drafting it as I go. Otherwise, I think I clog up the works. -- Ross Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: > > I just received an Aircraft Spruce catalog and thought that I would look > up some instrument prices. Looking at some of those prices was a real > eye opener. I think I may want to look elsewhere for instruments. Any > suggestions? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:37:52 -0600 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cleveland wheels At 01:59 PM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >Austin Clark wrote: >> >> >> > >> This question is for those of us who are putting the tailwheel in the wrong >> place. >> >> Does the Deil nosegear take a 4" or 5" wheel and does anyone have the >> Cleveland part number for the 4" nosewheel? >> >>--------------- > > I don't know if you got an answer to this. The Deihl nose gear >I have (I think came from R&R) has a five inch nose wheel. The tire is >a Cheng Shin 3.40/3.00 - 5. There is no name or number on the wheel. >But the bearing says China. So I doubt that it is Cleveland. The wheel >is a two piece, meaning that three bolts hold it together. > >Marvin McCoy >Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field >mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net >------------------- > FYI .......... I use a 4" wheel on my Deihl nose gear. I used the smaller wheel and tire to cut down some of the drag induced by the nose gear. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:00:27 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Spins and Tomahawks Ah yes: a plane designed by paying close attention to the views and desires of many high-time instructors. What could be a worthier method? But still - a camel is still a horse designed by a committee. In this case - the camel can not only stall, but possibly deep-stall, and an instructor is right to be somewhat apprehensive if this is the case... Brian At 23:53 1/16/98 EST, you wrote: >I recently rented a Tomahawk, and the instructor was afraid for me to STALL >it. I never went back for another flight, even though he signed me off to do >so. > >That baby wallows like a pig and is ugly to fly. If I thought my KR2S would >have any relationship to that, I'd burn the project. > >Ron Freiberger >KR2S builder in Fort Myers, FL > > brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:20:16 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Flight Training Program Well the student pilot statistic in the NTSB report suggested that I >hint that a taildragger endorsement is a good idea. I agree with you! >Beyond this... I'm trying to decide how I will get 100hours of >taildragger time between now and the time my KR wants me to go flying, >or can I make do with 20-30. Not sure why you need 100 hours unless it is an insurance thing. However I have heard that the KR is >a wheel landing kind of taildragger. Three pointers work if you get >long front legs.. >-- Ross > Interesting. Hope to find out soon. My need to be proficient in whhel landings was due to the visibility limitations over the nose. However we have at least two accomplished manly man (I mean taildragger) pilots here who can clarify that point. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:40:26 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: Progress Report (N541RY) Stall Strips, Instruments Ross wrote: > I've got some fuse holders too, but haven't gone back and assigned > current loads to everything yet. Anyone know what the current load > of those Facet fuel pumps is? The paperwork that came with mine said to use 16 Ga wire. I am starting with a 5amp breaker on the 16G. In one of Tony's books, he suggested using shielded wire to your fuel pump if it runs all the time. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:10:55 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Re: Progress Report (N541RY) Rossy wrote: > I've got some fuse holders too, but haven't gone back and assigned > current loads to everything yet. Anyone know what the current load > of those Facet fuel pumps is? ASS's Cat shows 12V @ 4A for the Weldon A-8170A (35GPH @ 4.5 PSI) This should be in the ball-park for the Facet 30 GPH models. Brian brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:31:08 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Spins In a message dated 98-01-17 05:35:15 EST, you write: << I think that Rick Junkin did some playing with a scale model, and found that it would flat spin easily. There were also some anticdotal discussions on this about a year ago. >> Nope, wasn't me. I haven't put anything about spins in my test plan yet because I'm not going to recommend it until after I spin mine. If anyone out there wants to spin theirs, I'd suggest reading some aerobatic references, and get some dual spin training if you haven't already. I'll look up some good book references and post them. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:46:12 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Bolt Installation At 02:07 1/17/98 -0800, Ross wrote: >... I cut a channel as you are considering, then to make it nice, I floxed it so I wouldn't get any delamination, and dremeled out a cavity for the bolt. It is >a REAL pain to get the bolts in and out. I will use cotter pins and >castelated nuts, and don't plan to flox or fill the hole at this time. > Thanks Ross, this is encouraging. This morning I done as you described and the epoxy is curing as I write this. I think you are right not to fill the chamber as this will be handy when you have to remove the elevator or rudder. We must think alike, I have the cotter pins and castelated nuts ready for installation. I put a crude sketch of this on my web page, Tail Group section this morning. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:13:39 -0500 From: "James Bassett." Subject: KR: Ron Lee on Landing Tailwheel Aircraft The idea is really to change the airplane from a flying machine into a ground vehicle without hurting yourself,your pride or,your kite!The airplane while in contact with the ground is safest when it has all three wheels on the ground.In most cases directional control is lost when (1)raising the tail on take off or(2)lowering the tail while rolling out on landing. When you transition to a 3pt. landing attitude (in the flare) you are not only closer to the final attitude on the ground,you are also closer to landing speed than you are in a "wheels" landing.Touching down slightly tail first with the stick allthe way back (as the airplane stalls) insures the airplane is not only on the ground,it is also going to stay there.In crosswinds as well, with some wing down into the wind while using a bit of opposite rudder for directional control,the tailwheel first method still applies. Wheel landings (1)take longer rollouts at higher speeds.(2)are more likely to cause directional control problems (3)let everyone know the person flying really shoud be in a 152.I don't want to insult your intelligence or sound too authoritative.All I can tell you is it has worked well for me in SNJ's,F6F Hellcats and my Lusconbe 8E(right out to 25 mph X-winds) If you want a demo and tial run at it let me know Jim Bassett (nifty@leading.net) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:49:40 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Bolt Installation At 09:46 AM 1/17/98, you wrote: >Thanks Ross, this is encouraging. This morning I done as you described and the epoxy is curing as I write this. I think you are right not to fill the>>>>>>>>>. I am heading to the hanger in a few minutes. I will take along the digi camera and take a few pictures of my elevator hinge bolt locations. May help, may not! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:04:19 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Ron Lee on Landing Tailwheel Aircraft At 11:13 AM 1/17/98 -0500, you wrote: > Wheel landings (1)take longer rollouts at higher speeds.(2)are more >likely to cause directional control problems (3)let everyone know the >person flying really shoud be in a 152.I don't want to insult your >intelligence or sound too authoritative.All I can tell you is it has worked >well for me in SNJ's,F6F Hellcats and my Lusconbe 8E(right out to 25 mph X-winds)>>>> Oh my a War Bird Pilot! We are not worthy! Just joking Jim, this is what I have been trying to tell everyone from the beginning but I guess todays flight instructor has a better idea on how to land a tail dragger. I am glad I didn't have to go through this when I was flying! Isn't it great, we have flight instructors (with the ink still drying on their commercial ticket) teaching guys how to fly tail draggers with little or no tail dragger experience themselves! Go figure! No Ron I am not a manly man in respect to this whole taildragger thing, its just not that hard and the whole damn thing has been blown out of wack! Just go do it man! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:03:45 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Tailwheel Spring Noise. I came up with what I think is the poor man's solution to the tailwheel spring noise problem. Some of you may have thought of this already and not told me, but it's made my day, little things sure can make me happy, eh. I found some conveyer (sp) belt rubber that is 1/2" or 1/4" thick and is extremely dense and reinforced with fiber. Local coal companies use it for shock mounts on all of their portable power units, generators etc by cutting up a piece of an old belt. The guy assured me that it would not compress so as to cause wobble and that it would last the life of the plane. By placing a piece of the 1/4" between the spring steel and the bottom of the fuse. it provides a buffer between the wheel and guitar box we have for an airplane. The noise reduction, I am sure will be remarkable. If anyone wants a piece of this to try let me know by private e-mail and I'll send you a chunk. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:24:28 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Spins >In a message dated 98-01-17 05:35:15 EST, you write: > ><< I think that Rick Junkin did some playing with a scale model, and > found that it would flat spin easily. There were also some anticdotal > discussions on this about a year ago. >> > >Nope, wasn't me. I haven't put anything about spins in my test plan yet >because I'm not going to recommend it until after I spin mine. If anyone out >there wants to spin theirs, I'd suggest reading some aerobatic references, and >get some dual spin training if you haven't already. I'll look up some good >book references and post them. > >Cheers! >Rick Junkin >EagleGator@aol.com >St. Charles MO >http://members.aol.com/eaglegator And don't forget that parachute too, plus plenty of altitude! I would start at 10,000 AGL myself. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:22:32 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: KR2 Project FS- Dallas, TX This just in from Rec.aviation.homebuilt Ron Lee I have my KR-2 for sale (Dallas, TX). It is in the "boat" stage of construction (if you don't know what this means, don't ask - I won't consider you a serious buyer) with the wing spars signed-off by an FAA inspector prior to their covering. It is configured as a tail dragger with dual controls (not the 'S' model). All material to complete (less engine and instruments). Excellent workmanship. $2,000 (cash). Serious buyer inquires only, please. You will have to make arrangements to pick-up - I will not ship it. E-mail me at: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:32:20 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Spins >In a message dated 98-01-16 17:26:26 EST, you write: > >> >>>Just a question here, while we're talking about recognizing incipient >>>stalls and such. Has anybody out there spun a KR? Anybody have any >>>experience with spins or spin recovery in the KR? > There was an article about the KR in Hot Kits & Homebuilts March 1989. It had a short article from a 27 year Air Force veteran. He talks all about the flight of his KR-2. He even describes about spinning it. If anyone is interested in seeing the article let me know. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S=20 KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:35:42 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR: Plywood OK. I know that I have heard about someone using Baltic Birch ply in a homebuilt, but I can't remember where I read or heard about it. Does anyone know anything about Baltic Birch ply? I have found a local source of it and it would save me a lot of $ by getting it locally. Any comments on Baltic Birch? I am thinking about at least using it to skin the boat. Any and all comments are welcome.=20 Thanks, Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S=20 KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:05:34 -0600 From: flyer@clas.net Subject: Re: KR: Spins > If anyone is interested in seeing the article let me know. Brian, May I see a copy? Thanks Bruce Watkins Cape Girardeau (no I don't know Rush Limbaugh) Mo. flyer@clas.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:20:39 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Spins and Tomahawks >>I recently rented a Tomahawk, and the instructor was afraid >>for me to STALL it. I never went back for another flight, >>even though he signed me off to do so. >>That baby wallows like a pig and is ugly to fly. If I >>thought my KR2S would have any relationship to that, I'd >>burn the project. >>Ron Freiberger >>KR2S builder in Fort Myers, FL I own a Tomahawk, a KR-1, and am building a KR-2. The flight instructor referred to above was obviously very intimidated by an article outlining the Tomahawk's "different" stall/spin characteristics. Notice that I said "different" not "dangerous". Having hundreds of hours in several different Tomahawks, I can assure you that they are neither dangerous nor difficult to master. One only has to read the POH and fly it accordingly. It is more demanding to fly than a C-150/152 though, and if not flown correctly, it will feel 'ugly'. I tell you though, after flying a C-150/152 type aircraft and then getting back into my Tomahawk, that it feels like I've gotten out of an old Chevy and gotten into a newer model Caddy! At every BFR I've had to do the complete stall series in a Tomahawk, and I have done so unhesitatingly without ever entering an inadvertant spin. Perhaps the 'instructor' needs some refresher training in it too. As for the "wallowing" I have no idea what might have been going in in that particular aircraft. Sorry you had such a bad feeling about the Tomahawk. I'm sure you'll enjoy the KR-2 much better. Cheers, Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:31:43 EST From: XZOSTD1 Subject: Re: KR: New Member (Comp.Book Title) The title is Moldless Composite Homebuilt Sandwich Aircraft Construction. By Rutan Aircraft Factory Lots and Lots of info and tips on building things to make your glass and epoxy experience easier. Bill Huntley KR2S Green Bay ( Home of the Green Bay Packers) WI. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:16:26 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Spins Brian Bland wrote: > > >In a message dated 98-01-16 17:26:26 EST, you write: > > > >> > >>>Just a question here, while we're talking about recognizing incipient > >>>stalls and such. Has anybody out there spun a KR? Anybody have any > >>>experience with spins or spin recovery in the KR? > > > There was an article about the KR in Hot Kits & Homebuilts March 1989. > It had a short article from a 27 year Air Force veteran. He talks all > about the flight of his KR-2. He even describes about spinning it. > If anyone is interested in seeing the article let me know. > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org Brian Would you send a copy to me too? If you can scan it as a JPG file that would be great. I'm curious to know the aerobatics one can perform in a KR. I would think that loops would be limited by the amount of airspeed you can maintain over the top. Also excess speed can build up on the bottom side very easily. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:44:32 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Spins and Tomahawks >>>I recently rented a Tomahawk, and the instructor was afraid >>>for me to STALL it. I never went back for another flight, >>>even though he signed me off to do so. > >>>That baby wallows like a pig and is ugly to fly. If I >>>thought my KR2S would have any relationship to that, I'd >>>burn the project. >I own a Tomahawk, a KR-1, and am building a KR-2. The flight instructor >referred >to above was obviously very intimidated by an article outlining the >Tomahawk's >"different" stall/spin characteristics. Notice that I said "different" not >"dangerous". Having hundreds of hours in several different Tomahawks, I can >assure you that they are neither dangerous nor difficult to master. >As for the "wallowing" I have no idea what might have been going in in that >particular aircraft. The "particular aircraft" you fly is part of the problem: Aviation Safety reported some time ago (and may in fact, have discovered this -- I don't recall) that Piper departed from the type certificate during the course of the production run of Tomahawks by making many of them without enough ribs in the wings. These planes are too dangerous to stall and probably should be destroyed. Obviously, there would be significant political ramifications for the FAA to issue an AD making most of the production run of the Tomahawk permanently unairworthy, so they're burying their heads in the sand. Presumably you got one of the ones that was built right. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:12:54 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Elevator Hinge Bolt access Yall can go to my tail page and see the horizontal and vertical tail fillet now that it has been filled and sanded. Also there are a few pictures and a short explanation of my hinge bolt access cutouts. They are not the most glamorous things but they are on the bottom of the elevator! I did something completely different on the rudder as I did not want those ugly slot showing! My rudder hinge is a one piece rod that slides up from the bottom into all the hinges. Looks nice and was easy to do! And best of all no ugly slots! Here is the URL to the tail page: http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/tail.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:43:17 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Spring Noise. At 14:03 1/17/98 EST, you wrote: >I came up with what I think is the poor man's solution to the tailwheel spring >noise problem.... By placing a piece of the 1/4" >between the spring steel and the bottom of the fuse. it provides a buffer >between the wheel and guitar box we have for an airplane. The noise >reduction, I am sure will be remarkable. ... >Dana Overall > Sounds like a neat idea. You might consider another piece ( A washer?) between the spring and the holding bolt too. Brian brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:58:20 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Spins and Tomahawks Hi Mike. >The "particular aircraft" you fly is part of the problem: Aviation Safety >reported some time ago (and may in fact, have discovered this -- I don't >recall) that Piper departed from the type certificate during the course of the >production run of Tomahawks by making many of them without enough ribs in the >wings. These planes are too dangerous to stall and probably should be >destroyed. Obviously, there would be significant political ramifications for >the FAA to issue an AD making most of the production run of the Tomahawk >permanently unairworthy, so they're burying their heads in the sand. >Presumably you got one of the ones that was built right. >Mike Taglieri Aviation Safety did run the article as you stated, and I read it, as did many others. However, this article unnecesarily spread fear among those who do not know the aircraft, and *especially* among those who haven't flown it! The AOPA Safety Foundation subsequent to that article performed an extensive study which gave the airplane a clean bill of health, as did further studies by the FAA. I don't think the AOPA can be bothered by supposed "political ramifications." Not wishing to get into a flaming debate, I'll make just one other observation about the statement, "These planes are too dangerous to stall and probably should be destroyed." This is pure and utter nonsense. The Tomahawk is no more dangerous than any other aircraft of its type. If you think the Tomahawk stall is obnoxious, you should go fly an AA-1 Yankee sometime! Whew! If anyone desiring any further reading on the topic, I can supply you with numerous web site URLs which have ALL the relevant documents posted. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:13:18 -0600 From: Ed Janssen Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Spring Noise. Several of us "old timers" did this to our KRs some years back. Regarding the noise - I thought my tailwheel had fallen off when I encountered a grooved runway for the first time. Most of us used a layer or two of inner tube or similar type rubber. I don't know of anyone using anything high tech. The noise was dampened somewhat, but not eliminated by any stretch of the imagination. Ed Janssen At 01:43 AM 1/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 14:03 1/17/98 EST, you wrote: >>I came up with what I think is the poor man's solution to the tailwheel >spring >>noise problem.... By placing a piece of the 1/4" >>between the spring steel and the bottom of the fuse. it provides a buffer >>between the wheel and guitar box we have for an airplane. The noise >>reduction, I am sure will be remarkable. ... >>Dana Overall ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #17 ****************************