From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, February 20, 1998 12:55 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #44 krnet-l-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 044 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:36:27 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Trade A Plane KRs From the second Feb 98 issue. Ads snipped to save typing. 1) KR2, 60 hp, 114 hrs, Diehl wings, fixed gear taildragger. $9000, 618-624-5052 2) KR2, 90 hrs, show plane, 2180 revmaster (lots of pretty finish info), $17,500. 520-368-4766 or 367-3185 3) Project: Boat stage fuselage, plus more, $950, Unconverted VW, $250 (this ones for you Mike). 205-699-8533 (evenings/weekends) 699-7802 days. Any typos are my fault. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:39:21 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: KR: Epoxy Toxisity I am in the thros of gluing my "boat" together with West Systems Epoxy and I respect the views of those who were kind enough to respond. The Gougeon Bros. have a very imformative web site at http://www.concenric.net/~Westsys and it contains a full user manual. After reading the manual, I made my decision to use thier product. Other influences were a seminar by one of the principals of the West Company at a chapter meeting in the Detroit area and a brother in-law who built a canoe from cedar strips and West epoxy. I did a little sample of each batch for break testing. Of the samples tested so far, the wood ripout was always beside the joint leaving the actual joint intact. I'm happy and it'll be West all the way for me. It's great stuff. My original question was pretty much answered by Steve Eberhardt. Thanks Steve. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:07:42 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: COZY: yet more epoxy info [long] (fwd) Saw this on the Cozy list and thought you might be interrested. Steve Eberhart - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:47:32 -0500 From: bil kleb To: cozy_builders mailing list , "canard-aviators@canard.com" Subject: COZY: yet more epoxy info [long] while looking for the red hook brewery in seattle last week, i ran across system three resins---the people who make the water-reduceable polyurethane paints, general boat building epoxies similar to west system from gougeon brothers (http://www.gougeon.com/), and most probably the five-minute epoxy you have in your workshop. anyway, while asking directions i picked up their assorted brochures. of particular interest has been their "the epoxy book" (see http://www.systemthree.com/). besides a decent basic chemistry lesson, it includes such gems as: o much acetone sold today is reclaimed and may have impurities that interfere with secondary bonding by leaving a film of residue on the surface. (i.e., get $technical$ grade chemicals and stop wiping with acetone before a secondary layup?) o epoxy resins may be applied over cured polyesters that have been dewaxed and well sanded but polyesters should never be used over cured epoxy resins. unreacted amine [throughout] the epoxy inhibits the peroxide catalyst in the polyester causing an incomplete cure at the interface. sanding does NOT get rid of the unreacted amine. the result is a poor bond even though the surface appears cured. debonding will be the inevitable result. (i.e., don't use polyester body fillers over epoxy.) o haziness and crystallization [of the resin] will occur if stored at cold temperatures (below 50F) for prolonged periods. immersing the closed container in hot tap water and heating to 120F or above will bring the resin back to a clear state. neither crystallization nor heating will adversely affect the product. o since all epoxy based materials eventually chalk in sunlight be careful when using the two part epoxy paints for exterior finish coats. (i.e., use epoxy only for primer coats?) o don't pot stainless steel bolts in epoxy resin. stainless steel works only in the presence of sufficient oxygen. note: the msds's for system three resin, ez-10 resin, 2727 resin, and 2410 resin indicate that they are all based on the same chemical compound, CAS 25068-38-6. - -- bil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:48:07 -0500 From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: KR: Re: Thanks for the plans! Dana.. THe plans got here yesterday and I wanted to thank you for them. It is very helpful to look at the source of all the discussion here and try to find the differences in my projects and the plans., I was amazed to note on the front specs sheet that the expected weight was 400 pounds.. not 500. The all -up weight is 800 and stall speed is listed as 42 mph. It's interesting to know that some of the target weights are creeping up toward 600 pounds now and not surprizing that the stall speeds are also up a lot. Thanks again and I always enjoy your posts. See you at Sun IN Fun. Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:19:26 EST From: DAN469@aol.com Subject: KR: motor mount extentions Thanks for the input Mike and Dana, I think I will plan on having to extend my mount but will wait until I am further along and can compute where my CG will be. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:53:59 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR: Progress Report Just thought I would let you know what I have recently got done on my project. Tonight I cut my tailpost and laminated the 1/4" ply to it. Hopefully I will get it glued in tomorrow night. I also finally got around to pulling my EA-81 SOOB engine out of the car. Now I just have to clean it up and then tear it down and see what I need to do to it if anything. So far I have about $500 invested in my project including the plans and engine. I will be adding another $1000 in a few weeks and it will start to look like an airplane. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S (DDT Soob - NO redrive here!!)=20 Currently glueing plywood skins on fuselage KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:07:04 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Trade A Plane KRs At 08:36 PM 2/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >3) Project: Boat stage fuselage, plus more, $950, Unconverted VW, $250 (this ones for you Mike). 205-699-8533 >>> Yea I will get right on it!! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:01:14 EST From: XZOSTD1@aol.com Subject: KR: I'am Using West System If West System epoxy doesnt work I,ll be able to give a eye and body witness account of how a BRS chute works.(if it works??) I also have used the system on boat hull repairs that are in a very abusive enviroment, including -20 WI. winters and high temps. from being painted dark colors. The West System is presently gluing the motor mounts for a 350 Chev. small block in a older 16' boat I previously owned.(holding for the 7th year) The pumps are the best!!! Bill Huntley KR2S Green Bay, WI. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:04:21 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: This years Chinokosh phrase Well thanks to Rob Covington we now have a Chinokosh 1998 phrase, its,..are you ready for this? "ChinoKosh...smell it, live it." For those of you not familiar Chino airport is located right in the middle of 80% of the milk producers (IE lots of cows) here in Southern California! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:16:49 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: West Systems (was Epoxy toxisity) One thing I noticed was its short pot life even with the slow hardner, this may be a problem on large layups then again it may not be! Curing in 9 hours does sound good though! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:29:41 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: This years Chinokosh phrase On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:04:21 -0800, you wrote: >Well thanks to Rob Covington we now have a Chinokosh 1998 phrase, = its,..are >you ready for this? > > "ChinoKosh...smell it, live it." > >For those of you not familiar Chino airport is located right in the = middle >of 80% of the milk producers (IE lots of cows) here in Southern = California! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > All right! I will feel right at home! Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S (DDT Soob - NO redrive here!!)=20 Currently glueing plywood skins on fuselage KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:09:29 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: This years Chinokosh phrase At 05:29 AM 2/19/98 GMT, you wrote: >All right! I will feel right at home! > > This just in from our roaming Chinokosh reporter (Mr. Covington): "Also featuring CowPatty Wagstaff doing Manurebatics in her Shittabria." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:10:49 EST From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: This years Chinokosh phrase In a message dated 98-02-19 00:25:22 EST, you write: << Well thanks to Rob Covington we now have a Chinokosh 1998 phrase, its,..are you ready for this? "ChinoKosh...smell it, live it." >> I guess that makes Rob a Moooooooooo(ver) in the CHINOKosh Event... Frickoid ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:57:41 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Re: Epoxy Toxisity I think theres a typo in your link. AARP (the Association for the Advancement of Richard Parker) - -----Original Message----- From: jeroffey To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:40 PM Subject: KR: Epoxy Toxisity > I am in the thros of gluing my "boat" together with West Systems Epoxy and >I respect the views of those who were kind enough to respond. The Gougeon >Bros. have a very imformative web site at http://www.concenric.net/~Westsys >and it contains a full user manual. After reading the manual, I made my >decision to use thier product. Other influences were a seminar by one of the >principals of the West Company at a chapter meeting in the Detroit area and >a brother in-law who built a canoe from cedar strips and West epoxy. I did a >little sample of each batch for break testing. Of the samples tested so far, >the wood ripout was always beside the joint leaving the actual joint intact. >I'm happy and it'll be West all the way for me. It's great stuff. > My original question was pretty much answered by Steve Eberhardt. Thanks Steve. >John Roffey >jeroffey@tir.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:09:05 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Scimitar USA (http://www.sciflyusa.com/epoxy.html This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD3CF4.80152C80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01BD3CF4.80152C80" - ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BD3CF4.80152C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Epoxies: Epoxy resins when mixed with the appropriate hardener provide = reinforcement for the glass, carbon, and Kevlar fibers used in sailplane = construction.=20 If you are structurally modifying a part of a certified aircraft, then = you are obliged to use the epoxy/hardener/glass system certified by the = manufacturer. In many cases this will be a resin called Epikote 162, = manufactured by Shell, used with a hardening agent called Laromin C-260, = manufactured by BASF. These products are manufactured in the US but are = not available here because of trade restrictions on a carcinogen used in = the epoxy.=20 The Epikote/Laromin system has excellent working properties for room = temperature layups, but does not have nearly as good physical properties = at elevated temperatures even with a post-cure. At about 120 degrees F, = there is a noticeable reduction in the strength of the cured epoxy. This = means that if you paint your sailplane a non-white color and leave it = outside in the sun, there is likely to be some heat-induced distortion = of your profile.=20 The technical support group at Shell advocates the use of a newer = improved epoxy system called DPL-862, which when layed up at room = temperature and postcured to 200 deg F for one hour, provides a = significant strength increase as compared to Epikote/Laromin. The key is = the use of a much lower concentration of dilutant (4% compared to about = 19% in the Epikote). The dilutant concentration lowers the heat = deflection temperature of the layup, such that a postcured Epikote/glass = wing will have a maximum service temperature of about 80 deg F less than = the DPL-862 wing.=20 The DPL-862 epoxy with Ancamine 1769 hardener also has the advantage of = having a low level of skin irritation factor. You should still use = gloves, but the probability of developing a skin sensitization would be = lower with the 862/1769.=20 There are a few epoxies on the market that have been popular in power = airplane homebuilding market.=20 SAFE-T-POXY is a styrene based epoxy/hardener system that has the = advantage of having a very low skin irritation factor. Is is brown = colored. This should not be used for structural applications ! The heat = deflection temperature is quite low and could cause deformation or = failure on any parts left out in the sun.=20 WEST-SYSTEMS EPOXY also should not be used for structural applications, = but it is perfect for use when you want to have a very well bonded = filler material. When mixed with microballoons (Aerosil), it makes a = very nice sanding filler. Like SAFE-T-POXY, WEST SYSTEMS EPOXY has a low = heat deflection temperature and is rather weak compared to a layup done = with DPL-869/Ancamine http://www.sciflyusa.com/epoxy.html - ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BD3CF4.80152C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Epoxies: Epoxy resins when mixed with the appropriate hardener = provide=20 reinforcement for the glass, carbon, and Kevlar fibers used in sailplane = construction.

If you are structurally modifying a part of a certified aircraft, = then you=20 are obliged to use the epoxy/hardener/glass system certified by the=20 manufacturer. In many cases this will be a resin called Epikote 162,=20 manufactured by Shell, used with a hardening agent called Laromin C-260, = manufactured by BASF. These products are manufactured in the US but are = not=20 available here because of trade restrictions on a carcinogen used in the = epoxy.=20

The Epikote/Laromin system has excellent working properties for room=20 temperature layups, but does not have nearly as good physical properties = at=20 elevated temperatures even with a post-cure. At about 120 degrees F, = there is a=20 noticeable reduction in the strength of the cured epoxy. This means that = if you=20 paint your sailplane a non-white color and leave it outside in the sun, = there is=20 likely to be some heat-induced distortion of your profile.

The technical support group at Shell advocates the use of a newer = improved=20 epoxy system called DPL-862, which when layed up at room temperature and = postcured to 200 deg F for one hour, provides a significant strength = increase as=20 compared to Epikote/Laromin. The key is the use of a much lower = concentration of=20 dilutant (4% compared to about 19% in the Epikote). The dilutant = concentration=20 lowers the heat deflection temperature of the layup, such that a = postcured=20 Epikote/glass wing will have a maximum service temperature of about 80 = deg F=20 less than the DPL-862 wing.

The DPL-862 epoxy with Ancamine 1769 hardener also has the advantage = of=20 having a low level of skin irritation factor. You should still use = gloves, but=20 the probability of developing a skin sensitization would be lower with = the=20 862/1769.

There are a few epoxies on the market that have been popular in power = airplane homebuilding market.

SAFE-T-POXY is a styrene based epoxy/hardener system that has the = advantage=20 of having a very low skin irritation factor. Is is brown colored. This = should=20 not be used for structural applications ! The heat deflection = temperature is=20 quite low and could cause deformation or failure on any parts left out = in the=20 sun.

WEST-SYSTEMS EPOXY also should not be used for structural = applications, but=20 it is perfect for use when you want to have a very well bonded filler = material.=20 When mixed with microballoons (Aerosil), it makes a very nice sanding = filler.=20 Like SAFE-T-POXY, WEST SYSTEMS EPOXY has a low heat deflection = temperature and=20 is rather weak compared to a layup done with = DPL-869/Ancamine


http://www.sciflyusa.com/epo= xy.html - ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BD3CF4.80152C80-- - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD3CF4.80152C80 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Scimitar USA.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Scimitar USA.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.sciflyusa.com/epoxy.html Modified=801D7E241E3DBD0158 - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD3CF4.80152C80-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:43:01 -0600 From: Kerry Miller Subject: KR: West systems epoxy I just got the latest flyer from West Systems last week. They have a directory of projects, mostly boats, but here are a few of the aircraft projects they list: Wittman Tailwind Various composite repair, wing and skin damage Sequoia Falco Cozy 1/2 scale Corsair Osprey Composite Aircraft - Airmaster/Aires Most of the articles are about boat-building, but it looks like a lot of it could apply to a wood/glass plane like ours. Kerry Miller ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:08:32 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: West Systems site/was Epoxy Toxicity John wrote: >Gougeon Bros. have a very imformative web site at http://www.concentric.net/~Westsys ^ | | But you need a t right here to get their site! Thanks, John Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:09:39 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: HAPI case VW& soggy KR for sale Hello, Nettees Well, I finally got over to look at the KR for sale here in Medford, the one which got wet. I have thought about how to word this so it's not too critical, and the best way is to describe the engine first, for anybody looking for a VW with a HAPI case. If you buy it, you'll also get the KR for free. The engine is of unknown displacement, but the seller seems to think it's 1600 or 1835. It has a HAPI case with magneto and starter. It has dual ignition, that is- it also has a distributor up in the front hole, and the builder made a glassed "bump" in the top of the cowl to (mostly) cover the distributor. The heads have dual plugs and straight-down semi-stubby pipes. The intake manifold looks to be a purchased item for carb under the engine. The carb presently installed looks to be a Mikuni off a motorcycle; unknown size. The seller also described what sounds to be a Posa, in a box somewhere in his garage, which also goes with it. The engine has a wood prop on it (probably serviceable), and homemade spacer between the prop and hub- looks like several plies of old car tires. I'm not kidding. The engine mount looks like it was designed for the engine, and probably a purchased item, but the transverse member which crosses over the top of the mag has been "persuaded" to clear the mag... seems to have been heated and then struck with a big blunt object. The steel members (mount, manifold, exhausts, etc.) all show some light rust and incomplete paint coverage. The case looks like it has had the "flat black paint cut with gasoline" treatment (it's flat black); heads and jugs were never really degreased or blasted, and a few bent cooling fins were noted. There is no baffling. The seller says that the old guy who built the plane had run the engine in his garage, but doesn't know that for a fact. I don't know how much power it would have made with the carb that's on it. He wants "make an offer". I would start with a couple hundred bucks, tops. If you're interested, read on. If not, delete this post as the rest may be offensive to somebody. The "aircraft" is very crude and totally unairworthy. It is a perfect model for teaching Designees or Tech Counselors or FAA inspectors what to look for in a homebuilt, because it has everything you ever heard or thought about doing wrong when building. It is the KR-2 retract configuration with cable-pull brakes, and I suppose you could salvage the retract pieces if you want to. The canopy bubble might could be salvaged and polished out, but it has been fastened to the frame with alum. L-angles around the outside at about 8" intervals all around the edge. The wood framing sticks can be snapped off by hand due to water getting on the glue joints, which were evidently not epoxy but rather something like household carpenter's glue. The fiberglass is very rough, can be punched through with your finger and a good push. The control cables were re-routed as the builder wished, with the frame cut away for clearance... with a pocket knife... but still many contact points and much friction. The canopy, cowl, turtledeck and front deck are removable... using Ace Hardware latches all around the outside of the airplane. The leading edge of the vertical stab is about 1-1/2" wide, not rounded or faired, but nearly square. I didn't see the wings (they are in a hangar somewhere), but they go with the deal. I can only imagine what they look like. I'm sorry to say this, folks, but there are some people out there who shouldn't be doing this. I can only hope that the poor old guy (now passed on to his reward) who built the "plane" was just dreaming about actually flying it, because it would never have gotten off the ground. Or, if it did, his first pull-up would have put him in the cow pasture. If the controls actually functioned properly. Anyway, if you want to know more, let me know... or call Terry Bruce at (541)944-5861. He lives at 341 Sutter Ave. in Medford, OR 97504, just a couple of blocks from my house. Don't blame it on Terry- he flies a 140 that he restored and re-engined with an O-235. He's just trying to get the KR out of his garage! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:11:01 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: West Systems (was Epoxy toxisity) Yes , you are right. Even with the slow hardener 206? the large layups will be difficult , especially in summer temperatures. I may decide to use Aeropoxy after all if the layup time is as good as previously mentioned. Have to decide soon as I will begin the wing layups this summer. Maybe I'll just use the West stuff on hand for glassing the fuselage sides with 1.5 oz deck cloth for waterproofing and additional strength. Regards Chris Gardiner At 09:16 PM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >One thing I noticed was its short pot life even with the slow hardner, this >may be a problem on large layups then again it may not be! Curing in 9 >hours does sound good though! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >Fax 714.856.9417 > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Client Service Manager................. Schlumberger RMS...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR clgardiner@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:10:23, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: Re: KR: motor mout extentions Dan Diehl put 2 1/4" spacers on his 2180cc VW. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:25:04 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: The Newsletters have arrived I received the newsletters from Dava Overall today. I will get my copy made at Kinkos tomorrow. Looks to be about 500 pages or so - and yes, they will keep me buisy reading for many a cold night. EAST Coast KRNetters wanting to get on the list to receive the traveling newsletter masters send me a personnal email with your address. I will send the masters to the first person on the list. When you get them have your copies made from the masters and send the MASTERS, not your copy, on to the next person on the list. A Big round of thanks to Dana for making this treasure available to all of us. Steve Eberhart newtech@newtech.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:15:27 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Engines Tony King wrote: >I read an article in Kitplanes about building KR-2s. One man had used >Subaru EA-82 that he bought new for $1047. Are there any other engines >that are that affordable? Does the Subaru run as good as a VW? Tony; The EA-82 is a heavy engine due to overhead cams, belts to drive them, etc.- it's not as preferable as the pushrod EA-81. There are other engines that are affordable, depending on your engine skills, because the best way to get an inexpensive engine is to build it up yourself. Even that is relative, because you get what you pay for. If you want reliability and good power, you will likely spend a good bit more than $1000 for an engine! The Subaru is water cooled, so has more weight and complexity due to hoses, radiator, recovery tank, etc. etc., but it can be a very smooth and reliable engine if done right. Depends on your priorities: low cost, light weight, high top speed, simplicity- all involve trade offs. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:23:22 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing & Horiz Stab spars In a message dated 98-02-18 22:31:25 EST, you write: << Don't worry about removing a little ( 1/8 max) material if needed, but use the 3/32 ply gussets inside the fuse at this joint....... >> I think this was my first building error.... I was so excited about getting to this point, I just saw "plywood" for the triangular pieces and grabbed the 1/4" stuff! Oh well.... I already had it epoxied when I realized my mistake. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:23:28 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: The Newsletters have arrived In a message dated 98-02-19 17:44:48 EST, you write: << When you get them have your copies made from the masters and send the MASTERS, not your copy, on to the next person on the list. A Big round of thanks to Dana for making this treasure available to all of us. Steve Eberhart >> I might have missed it Steve, but is this a complete set that's going around? I bought one of the sets advertised a couple of years ago but there are quite a few issues missing. I really didn't think a whole lot about that since I'm building the 2-S anyway and figured it was a non-problem. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:53:40 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing & Horiz Stab spars At 10:23 PM 2/19/98 EST, you wrote: > I think this was my first building error.... I was so excited about >getting to this point, I just saw "plywood" for the triangular pieces and >grabbed the 1/4" stuff! Oh well.... I already had it epoxied when I realized >my mistake. > > Jim Hayward > Uh me too,.....not only that but I used 1/4 inch for the two extra motor mount beef ups on the fuselage sides too! I am kinda glad for that mistake though! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:58 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: The Newsletters have arrived At 10:23 PM 2/19/98 EST, you wrote: > I might have missed it Steve, but is this a complete set that's >going around? I bought one of the sets advertised a couple of years ago but there are quite a few issues missing. I really didn't think a whole lot about that since I'm building the 2-S anyway and figured it was a non-problem. > >Jim Hayward > Hey I just thought of something, yea it hurt so what! Obviously this is only an observation and an attemp to stir up some more trouble (its what I do best) but if E Koppe never sold the rights to the newsletters that he published and someone (no name mentioned here) was selling them as back issues wasn't there a copyright violation happening or am I mistaken?? Mike "the trouble maker" Mims ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:33:28 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: Re: KR: The Newsletters have arrived Steve, Please send them to me ..... LLoyd Perkins 813 Lincoln Drive Fredericksburg, Va. 22407 Thanks, Lloyd On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:25:04 -0600 (CST) Steven A Eberhart writes: > >I received the newsletters from Dava Overall today. I will get my >copy >made at Kinkos tomorrow. Looks to be about 500 pages or so - and yes, >they will keep me buisy reading for many a cold night. > >EAST Coast KRNetters wanting to get on the list to receive the >traveling >newsletter masters send me a personnal email with your address. I >will >send the masters to the first person on the list. When you get them >have >your copies made from the masters and send the MASTERS, not your copy, >on >to the next person on the list. > >A Big round of thanks to Dana for making this treasure available to >all >of us. > >Steve Eberhart >newtech@newtech.com > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:07:21 -0700 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Private airstrip requirements HI Rick, Sorry for the late reply to the subject. I'm finally getting around to reading the last few weeks worth of KRNet. I have a friend that has done this recently here in NM including getting his place put on the sectionals. If you can't find the necessary info, I'll be happy to put you in contact with him. Another source that should be happy to help you is the local FSDO FAA office. Regards, Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:54:42 EST EagleGator@aol.com writes: >Please excuse the non-building topic, but do any of you know where I >can find >information on the web about getting a site approved for a private >airstrip? >The short story is I'm looking at buying some land to build a >retirement home >on and want to start with the runway and hangar (my wife's idea, can >you >believe it??!!). I want to get an idea of what I'm up against before >I start >making any financial commitments on land. If necessary, I could put >in a >3000' "driveway", but I'd like to try the legal approval route first, >if it >isn't to excrutiatingly painful. Thanks for your help, and please >reply >directly to eaglegator@aol.com. > >Cheers, >Rick Junkin >EagleGator@aol.com >St. Charles MO > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:17:38 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: exhaust system tape Thats two negatives for exhaust tape... any pros? Mark Langford wrote: > Just as a data point on the exhaust tape thing, Jim Hill had his wrapped > with tape at one time. What convinced him that it was a bad idea was when > the pipe developed a leak thru a crack which blasted his wiring harness > with hot gas, melting the insulation and shorting out his tachometer lead, > which killed his ignition. Fortunately, this was while taxiing, and he > also has a mag, but you get the message. He thinks that if the exhaust > were only painted white he'd have noticed the crack much earlier. The tape > probably muffled the exhaust leak too. > > Mark Langford > langford@hiwaay.net > kr2s project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:29:54 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: exhaust system tape MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > Steve Bennett says it's dangerous to use insulating tape unless the exhaust is > stainless steel. I didn't understand why, but I guess rust and inability to > inspect are the reason. > > I'm not sure how much good this does anyway. Once the air is through the > cylinder fins and on the way out, does it matter how hot it gets from the > exhaust? Or are you trying to keep the heat from getting out of the pipes for > some other reason? I just wanted to keep the low pressure side of the cowling as cool as possible. But it appears that there are several reasons not to install the tape. - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:35:44 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: COZY: yet more epoxy info [long] (fwd) Steve, I have used some System III five minute epoxy for foam and also have used their water reduceable coatings. I love there product documentation, and books. Written for boatbuilders, but you get a lot out of the information. - -- Regards Ross Steven A Eberhart wrote: > Saw this on the Cozy list and thought you might be interrested. > > Steve Eberhart > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:47:32 -0500 > From: bil kleb > To: cozy_builders mailing list , > "canard-aviators@canard.com" > Subject: COZY: yet more epoxy info [long] > > while looking for the red hook brewery in seattle last week, > i ran across system three resins---the people who make the > water-reduceable polyurethane paints, general boat building > epoxies similar to west system from gougeon brothers (http://www.gougeon.com/), and most probably the five-minute > epoxy you have in your workshop. > > anyway, while asking directions i picked up their assorted brochures. > of particular interest has been their "the epoxy book" (see > http://www.systemthree.com/). besides a decent basic chemistry > lesson, it includes such gems as: > > o much acetone sold today is reclaimed and may have impurities that > interfere with secondary bonding by leaving a film of residue > on the surface. (i.e., get $technical$ grade chemicals and > stop wiping with acetone before a secondary layup?) > > o epoxy resins may be applied over cured polyesters that have been > dewaxed and well sanded but polyesters should never be used over > cured epoxy resins. unreacted amine [throughout] the epoxy > inhibits the peroxide catalyst in the polyester causing an > incomplete cure at the interface. sanding does NOT get rid of > the unreacted amine. the result is a poor bond even though the > surface appears cured. debonding will be the inevitable result. > (i.e., don't use polyester body fillers over epoxy.) > > o haziness and crystallization [of the resin] will occur if stored > at cold temperatures (below 50F) for prolonged periods. immersing > the closed container in hot tap water and heating to 120F > or above will bring the resin back to a clear state. neither > crystallization nor heating will adversely affect the product. > > o since all epoxy based materials eventually chalk in sunlight be > careful when using the two part epoxy paints for exterior finish > coats. (i.e., use epoxy only for primer coats?) > > o don't pot stainless steel bolts in epoxy resin. stainless steel > works only in the presence of sufficient oxygen. > > note: the msds's for system three resin, ez-10 resin, 2727 resin, > and 2410 resin indicate that they are all based on the same > chemical compound, CAS 25068-38-6. > -- > bil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:56:13 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: N541RY Progress Report Well, The PC is back up, but it is missing lots of my favorite software UGH. This means that I have only now started scanning photos that I have in my collection sent from KRnetters... (Tom yours were first!). Now, I've got to dig up my FTP software so I can shove this stuff up to KRNET... did I say this was a KR progress report? Oh yea. I've got some moving shots of the move to the new hangar. Hopefully when the sun comes out I will have shots of my KR-2, and my hangar mates KR-1 in progress to post. I weighed the project with the wings stuck on, (two bolts each), and the one scale that was working said about 270#, if I assume that there would be about 30# at the tail (a wild guess), and that the other scale would have read 270# too, and that the reading I have is accurate, my empty weight with oil added is going to be about 570#. Oh yea, the cowling, ailerons and radios are not included, so lets throw in another 10# for good measure. About 580#. This is for a KR-2 with 1835cc GPASC engine kit, alternator & starter, retract landing gear. This is OK, but I was shooting for about 500# with all the kevlar work. Maybe my scale was off. Actually, I need to get two more scales, and swap them around each wheel and average all three readings, then I can say I have a rough estimate. Oh yea, why did I decide to do all this? I figured if I did a preliminary weight and balance, I could figure out where to place the ELT for best CG range. This really means I need to get a couple of scales, and move them around like I did before I hung the engine. I have a tech counselor coming out Saturday to help me figure out all the stuff I need to do to get this bird airworthy. I know of several things, but now is a good time to get others to find things, before I think I'm done. Then I might get discouraged, or rush/skip items. This would be my second tech counselor visit. The first was many years ago, before closing the spars. -- Ross ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #44 ****************************