From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:32 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #48 krnet-l-digest Saturday, February 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 048 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:35:16 -0600 From: "Terry Chizek" Subject: KR: Re: Newsletters Brian I like to get a copy Terry Chizek 308 miller Marion ks 66861 chitl@southwind.net flying a kr2 building a kr2s with a 0235 . If anyone > else wants a copy send me you name and address and I will make a list > to send with the newsletters to Rex. > > Chinokosh is fast approaching. I can already smell the cows!! > > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S (DDT Soob - NO redrive here!!) > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:37:15 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: WAFs Tim Anderson wrote: > Regarding your stress analysis, how much of the load is transferred to the > spar through the bolts, and how much is transferred through the "clamping" > of the entire surface area of the WAF to the spar? Wouldn't this tend to > distribute the load more evenly to the spars? The frictional load can not be used in the structural analysis. The wood will expand and contract due to weather, the metal in the fittings and bolts will expand and contract with temperature. The ONLY way to calculate the stresses is to assume that they are transferred in the bolts bearing on the wood. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:08:31 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: WAFs >> Anyway, the question had >> to do with making the 'big' holes in the main spar WAFs. >...snip on weight considerations... > >Mike paraphrased some of my own thoughts on the structural aspects of >the fittings (and did a fine job). When you look at structural fittings >that involve metal bolted to wood in certificated airplanes, they all >seem to have a "taper" in strength in some way. When the components are >of the same material, the elasticity is the same, so the load transfer >analysis is simplified. > >One of my favorite references is ANC-18, Design of Wood Aircraft >Structures. It say, "When a long row of bolts is used to join two parts >of a structure, consideration should be given to the relative >deformation of the parts." For fittings of the type we are talking >about, it further goes on to say "This may be approximated in practical >structures by tapering the straps and the wood in such a manner that the >average stress in each (over the length of the fastening) divided by its >modulus of elasticity gives the same ratio." All of the examples that >they show for strucural fittings are tapered in cross-sectional area. > >Oscar, I think your strucural engineer was thinking about >aluminum-to-aluminum fastenings. I remember Don's original post on this subject last summer (basically, the above with more detail), and it's clear the holes perform the job of "tapering the strength." But couldn't we get the same result by tapering the fittings (apparently like the Taylor Monoplane) instead of drilling holes? It would waste more metal, but would just involve bandsawing a taper and save a hell of a lot of work. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:21:52 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Traveling Resource Library. At 17:16 2/11/98 PST, you wrote: >Yeah, or else wait till I get it scanned and put on CD-ROM and spare >yourself a dry ink cartridge and a couple reams of paper for your X*rox >copier. I'll sell you a CD-ROM for a nominal fee (ahem!), the bulk of >which I plan to plow back into the KRNet operating fund, or to the NLF >fund... whichever is undersubscribed at the time. > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon Oscar, Put me on the list for one of the CD's. Thanks, Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS itac@datasync.com http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:28:02 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: engine mount At 15:25 2/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >Yes , Dan said that it is the one Rand-Robinson sold for Revmasters. > > Jean, Please contact me by private e-mail. I would like to buy the mount from you. Austin Clark itac@datasync.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 04:20:09 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: WAFs-no archive Hello, Netters I am still discussing the WAF structural analysis with my buddy. We will fight again another day! o 0 o o ~0o ooO 0 ~ , o x ___^\___ ` \___ |___\ ' \ \ \--\ \ \ mikemims: * * * * * \ \ \ \ *\__ \X----{ __ }---------------\ * X_____\ ( ) \_______________\ * \ ^ \ <----oz! donreid: * ^ (==%==) | | WAF Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:32:14 -0500 From: kim kroes Subject: Re: KR: It don't get much better than this...(long!) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------21F0E323922 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Hello, Netters; > > I received the old Newsletters from Dana yesterday afternoon, and > Oscar Zuniga Please add my name to the list for the CD rom version. I would be happy to contribute to yours & the KR's coffers for something so worth while! kim - --------------21F0E323922 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="kimkroes@novagate.com" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="kimkroes@novagate.com" Novagate - Home
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- --------------21F0E323922-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:15:04 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: WAFs MikeT nyc wrote: > >> Anyway, the question had > >> to do with making the 'big' holes in the main spar WAFs. > >...snip on weight considerations... > > When you look at structural fittings > >that involve metal bolted to wood in certificated airplanes, they all > >seem to have a "taper" in strength in some way. > But couldn't we get the same result by tapering the fittings > (apparently like the Taylor Monoplane) instead of drilling holes? It would > waste more metal, but would just involve bandsawing a taper and save a hell > of a lot of work. > > Mike Taglieri Yes, the idea is the same. The KR style has holes because it was designed with a double row of small bolts. It could also have been designed to look like a dinner fork with two tines. There are several different configurations that perform the same basic function. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:19:04 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Engineers-no archive Hello, Netters Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I have seen other ads here and we are desperately seeking to hire a mechanical and an electrical engineer who is willing to relocate to beautiful Southern Oregon If you are interested or know of somebody who might be, please e-mail me privately for job requirements and more details. This is for engineers with experience and a P.E. license, who are familiar with commercial/institutional/residential HVAC, plumbing, lighting, power design and consulting. Interest in aviation/homebuilding will not be a plus! Gratefully, Oscar Zuniga taildrags@hotmail.com Medford, Oregon mai@cdsnet.net (office) http://www.cdsnet.net/Business/MAI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:37:54 +0000 From: "flyer" Subject: KR: VW CHT Hi can anyone advise please. My Rand KR2 has been flying since the summer with a 1835cc VW converted in the UK with twin plugs per cylinder. The engine runs hot with a CHT at an indicated 460F straight and level at anything over 3100 RPM. It would reach 480F in the climb if I let it. Probably higher as I've never tried. Could I ask what CHT other VW users are getting at; Ground Idle Cruse Max Climb And what's the groups experience with the reliability of un compensated Westach CHT gauges with the thermocouple under the right rear cylinder plug. There are no other signs of overheating (discolouring , hot oil smells, overrunning) and the EGT and oil temperatures are good. Believe me I have tried everything I can think of including, timing, compression (8:1), mixture, baffle seals, even calibrating the thermocouple and gauge. I'm beginning to wonder if this is normal. Thanks Hedley Walker hedley.walker@mcmail.com Hedley Walker flyer@mcmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 04:21:49 -0500 From: "Driessen, Marcel" Subject: KR: Aileron cable travel Dear KRnetters, I am installing the aileron bellcrank assembly to the aft. wing spar. To check if the bellcrank does not collide with other parts, I need to know the travel of the aileron cable (aileron movement +20*/-10*). Can someone help me out ? Thanks Marcel Driessen KR2S-Builder (boat on wheels, seats installed) Meerlo, Limburg, The Netherlands e-mail: driessen@krohne.mhs.compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:43:07 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Good Internet site KRNetnuts: Good sight to surf in you truely want to learn... http://www.desktopaero.com/appliedaero/appliedaero.html Enjoy Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:58:21 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Engineers-no archive At 06:19 2/27/98 PST, you wrote: >Hello, Netters > >Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I have seen other ads here and we are >desperately seeking to hire a mechanical and an electrical engineer who >is willing to relocate to beautiful Southern Oregon ... >Oscar Zuniga Aw shucks, Oscar, just 'cos we didn't like the straight WAF suggestion from your engineer buddy - ya didn't haveta go and fire him! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:36:32 -0500 From: rdewees@juno.com (Ron DeWees) Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT Hi Hedley.. Thanks for the post. I am afraid I don't have the numbers you are requesting but I perked up my ears at your use of the 1834 Vdub conversion. I am working on a project that will use that engine. Could you share with us the performance and weight figures for your KR so I can get a ballpark what mine might be. Thanks Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:37:54 +0000 "flyer" writes: > >Hi can anyone advise please. > >My Rand KR2 has been flying since the summer >with a 1835cc VW converted in the UK with twin plugs per cylinder. > >The engine runs hot with a CHT at an indicated 460F straight and >level at anything over 3100 RPM. It would reach 480F in the climb if >I let it. Probably higher as I've never tried. > >Could I ask what CHT other VW users are getting at; > >Ground Idle >Cruse >Max Climb > >And what's the groups experience with the reliability of >un compensated Westach CHT gauges with the thermocouple under the >right rear cylinder plug. > >There are no other signs of overheating (discolouring , hot oil >smells, overrunning) and the EGT and oil temperatures are good. > >Believe me I have tried everything I can think of including, >timing, compression (8:1), mixture, baffle seals, even >calibrating the thermocouple and gauge. > >I'm beginning to wonder if this is normal. > >Thanks >Hedley Walker >hedley.walker@mcmail.com >Hedley Walker >flyer@mcmail.com > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:00:48 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT At 10:37 PM 2/24/98 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi can anyone advise please. > >My Rand KR2 has been flying since the summer >with a 1835cc VW converted in the UK with twin plugs per cylinder. I think Revmaster list 500 degrees as redline for CHT gauges using the sending unit that goes under the spark plug. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:33:38 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT In a message dated 98-02-27 10:59:12 EST, you write: << The engine runs hot with a CHT at an indicated 460F straight and level at anything over 3100 RPM. It would reach 480F in the climb if I let it. >> Hedley, I'll post the temps that Steve Bennett at Great Plains http://www.greatplainsas.com, lists as normal operation limitations, cruise RPM 3200 +/- 200, CHT at cruise 350F-375F, CHT in climb 420F (5 mins.) do not exceed CHT 450F. You have picked the hot cylinder in #3. This is just for info purposes only, you may want to e-mail Steve or --- Adrian are you out there? Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:49:21 -0500 From: haroldp Subject: KR: CD-ROM Please add my name to the list for the CD-ROM: Harold Pfleiderer 120 Sunnysied Ave. Pointe Claire, Quebec,Canada H9R 3T6 Looking forward to it. Many thanks ! Also, has anybody in Canada received the hardcopies yet ?? I would like to copy them ! Rgds Harold KR-2 CGKAV with LIMBACH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:50:27 -0500 From: haroldp Subject: KR: CD-ROM Oscar, Please add my name to the list for the CD-ROM: Harold Pfleiderer 120 Sunnyside Ave. Pointe Claire, Quebec,Canada H9R 3T6 (514)-630-0391 Looking forward to it. Many thanks ! Also, has anybody in Canada received the hardcopies yet ?? I would like to copy them ! Rgds Harold KR-2 CGKAV with LIMBACH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:13:27 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: KR: (Fwd) Mail Delivery Failure. From: "Parley T. Byington" Organization: EG&G Special Projects To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:21:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT Reply-to: parley@anv.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Flyer I have the same West tach CHT gauge in my bird N54PB, When I first started flying it back in 1991, I had the same problem. After much wondering, redesign of the cooling intakes, and exit area, I decided to check the reliability of the guage. A friend and A/P helped me verify the readings from each of the four CHT probes. We heated up a can of oil using a propane torch and immersed the probes, one at a time, along with a candy thermometer to check the readings. We found that each probe reading was off by as much as 50 degrees F. My engine is a VW 1835 with a Ray Jay turbo charger. I have 145 hours on my plane and 270 hours total on the engine. The engine was installed in another KR-2 before I bought it. My CHT generally run about 450 indicated in cruise and about 480-500 in climb out. The engine never has pinged or indicated it was overheating no matter what the CHT said. I suggest you check the guage/probes as I did and note the OAT so you can get a good feel for the ACTUAL temperature the engine is running at. I also installed a oil temperature gauge in by engine and it runs at about 180 degrees F and has never gone above 200 even on the hottest days here in Southern Nevada. Hope this info helps, if you need more specifics let me know. Happy flying Parley Byington ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:21:42 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT Flyer I have the same West tach CHT gauge in my bird N54PB, When I first started flying it back in 1991, I had the same problem. After much wondering, redesign of the cooling intakes, and exit area, I decided to check the reliability of the guage. A friend and A/P helped me verify the readings from each of the four CHT probes. We heated up a can of oil using a propane torch and immersed the probes, one at a time, along with a candy thermometer to check the readings. We found that each probe reading was off by as much as 50 degrees F. My engine is a VW 1835 with a Ray Jay turbo charger. I have 145 hours on my plane and 270 hours total on the engine. The engine was installed in another KR-2 before I bought it. My CHT generally run about 450 indicated in cruise and about 480-500 in climb out. The engine never has pinged or indicated it was overheating no matter what the CHT said. I suggest you check the guage/probes as I did and note the OAT so you can get a good feel for the ACTUAL temperature the engine is running at. I also installed a oil temperature gauge in by engine and it runs at about 180 degrees F and has never gone above 200 even on the hottest days here in Southern Nevada. Hope this info helps, if you need more specifics let me know. Happy flying Parley Byington ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:01:46 EST From: RFreibe131 Subject: KR: Fwd: Why "Sports Scholarship" is an Oxymoron This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_888631306_boundary Content-ID: <0_888631306@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII There's truth here; see if you can find it. Ron - --part0_888631306_boundary Content-ID: <0_888631306@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay20.mail.aol.com (relay20.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.66]) by air16.mail.aol.com (v40.2) with SMTP; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:49:37 -0500 Received: from ns2.eds.com (ns2.eds.com [199.228.142.78]) by relay20.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA05443; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:49:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from nnsp.eds.com (nnsp2.eds.com [199.228.143.130]) by ns2.eds.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15943; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from koedgw01.delcoelect.com (koedgw01.delcoelect.com [144.250.1.39]) by nnsp.eds.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04634; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from uskokg01.delcoelect.com (uskokg01.delcoelect.com [144.250.84.28]) by koedgw01.delcoelect.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA07292; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:44:12 -0500 Received: by uskokg01.delcoelect.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (305.3 1-15-1997)) id 052565B8.0078633F ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:54:57 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: DELCO From: "Robert P Hoffman" To: dewey1@aol.com, krhoffma@indiana.edu, footefam4@aol.com, Terryl@kpl.Gov, "David J Nichols", "Lynn V Rudolph", Dave.Innes@mw.bbdo.com, RFreibe131@aol.com, george.klueber@gsa.gov, smaier@email.msn.com, JXAUZINS@aol.com, Bev@Sycron.com Message-ID: <052565B8.00780E4C.00@uskokg01.delcoelect.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:52:44 -0500 Subject: Why "Sports Scholarship" is an Oxymoron Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Robert P Hoffman@DELCO on 02-27-98 04:52:44 PM "I'm going to graduate on time, no matter how long it takes." - -- Senior basketball player at the University of Pittsburgh "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - -- Football commentator and former player Joe Theismann "You guys pair up in groups of three, then line up in a circle." - -- Bill Peterson, a Florida State football coach "You guys line up alphabetically by height." - -- Bill Peterson, a Florida State football coach "That's so when I forget how to spell my name, I can still find my clothes." - -- Stu Grimson, Chicago Blackhawks left wing, explaining why he keeps a color photo of himself above his locker "I play football. I'm not trying to be a professor. The tests don't seem to make sense to me, measuring your brain on stuff I haven't been through in school." - -- Clemson recruit Ray Forsythe, who was ineligible as a freshman because of academic requirements "I know the Virginia players are smart because you need a 1500 SAT to get in. I have to drop bread crumbs to get our players to and from class." - -- George Raveling, Washington State basketball coach "Why would anyone expect him to come out smarter? He went to prison for three years, not Princeton." - -- Boxing promoter Dan Duva on Mike Tyson hooking up again with promoter Don King "I can't really remember the names of the clubs that we went to." - -- Shaquille O'Neal on whether he had visited the Parthenon during his visit to Greece "The ballparks have gotten too crowded. That's why nobody goes to see the game anymore." * Yogi Berra Bob Hoffman Delco Electronics Program Management Core Process Manager Program Management Competency Phone: (765) 451-0125 / (GM) 8-322-0125 Fax: (765) 451-0470 / (GM) 8-322-0470 Internet: rphoffma@mail.delcoelect.com Lotus Notes: Robert P Hoffman/DELCO - --part0_888631306_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:18:09 EST From: KRkip Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT Hi Hedley these are the temps that i get on my KR2 runing a 2100revmaster using westach gages. Also i use 100LL and you must remember that if you use auto fuel your temps will run hotter. Temps are cruise flight on a 70 to 75 degree summer day. Cyl head 325 number 3 cyl oil temp 180 degrees On a extended climb i have seen head temps go to 425 and the oil temps go to 215 but they both dropback to what i call normal rather quickly after leveling out. Remember on the westach temp gauges they are based on 70 degrees and if your cockpit temps are 80 you have to add 10 degrees to the temp on the gauge to get your true reading,also you must subtract if the temp is less than 70. Have you checked the amount of flow through your cowling? Believe it or not if you have too much you can overheat also. An ideal situation is to have the outlet area 1/3 larger than the inlet. this allows the cooling air under ram pressure to slow down enough to absorb the most amount of heat off the heads and cyls but still be able to expand and accelerate as it leaves the outlet.Hopes this helps Kip lounsbury Lincoln Me ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:47:27 -0500 From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: KR: KR CD ROM Oscar, I would be interested in purchasing a copy too. Thanks Dale Baldwin 165 Middling Ln. Fayetteville, GA 302214 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:23:52 +0000 From: "flyer" Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT > Hi Hedley.. Thanks for the post. I am afraid I don't have the numbers > you are requesting but I perked up my ears at your use of the 1834 Vdub > conversion. I am working on a project that will use that engine. Could > you share with us the performance and weight figures for your KR so I can > get a ballpark what mine might be. > Thanks > Ron DeWees > Atlanta, Ga > I can certainly share the weights but performance is not really valid until I sort out the overheating and other performance issues. The empty weight is 574lb with a speed of about 85knots at 3000 RPM. Now I stress that my Rand is overpropped and/or underperforming. I am making a smoother inlet manifold this winter and will adjust the prop to give a max RPM nearer to 3400 than the current 3000. So for what its worth in the climb the revs do not exceed 2900 yet is still goes up at 500ft/min at MAUW. By the way the UK Rands are approved and limited by the Popular Flying Association who are the delegated authority. The MAUW is limited to 900lbs and VNE is limited to 155mphiIndicated. They also encourage the fixed wheel version which mine is. I don't think you can glean much from this except AUW but if I have any luck in the summer I'll post the final figures. Regards Hedley Walker flyer@mcmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:23:53 +0000 From: "flyer" Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT > > > >My Rand KR2 has been flying since the summer > >with a 1835cc VW converted in the UK with twin plugs per cylinder. > > I think Revmaster list 500 degrees as redline for CHT gauges using the > sending unit that goes under the spark plug. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims Micheal, do you know why or where can confirm that because it has crossed my mind that the plug may be hotter than the Cylinder head? Regards Hedley Walker flyer@mcmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:08:50 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT flyer wrote: > > Hi can anyone advise please. > > My Rand KR2 has been flying since the summer > with a 1835cc VW converted in the UK with twin plugs per cylinder. > > The engine runs hot with a CHT at an indicated 460F straight and > level at anything over 3100 RPM. It would reach 480F in the climb if > I let it. Probably higher as I've never tried. > > Could I ask what CHT other VW users are getting at; > > Ground Idle > Cruse > Max Climb > > And what's the groups experience with the reliability of > un compensated Westach CHT gauges with the thermocouple under the > right rear cylinder plug. > > There are no other signs of overheating (discolouring , hot oil > smells, overrunning) and the EGT and oil temperatures are good. > > Believe me I have tried everything I can think of including, > timing, compression (8:1), mixture, baffle seals, even > calibrating the thermocouple and gauge. > > I'm beginning to wonder if this is normal. > > Thanks > Hedley Walker > hedley.walker@mcmail.com > Hedley Walker > flyer@mcmail.com Hedley, I use the Westach CHT gauge on my T4 2400 with the sending unit under the rear head bolt on #3 cylinder. The highest I have ever seen it on climbout is 250 deg. In cruise, it always comes down to 190-200deg. My compression ratio is 9:1 using 100LL. I beleive the T4 head is bigger, and has more cooling fins. Oil temps are 200 deg. in cruise with OAT 75. Max oil temp on climbout is 220. This is with a remote mounted oil cooler on the firewall. I am told that this sort of cooler setup will always run about 10 deg. hotter than a coler mounted directly in the airstream. Sounds like you may need to do some re-working on your cowl. The Revmaster cowl that I received from Rand had practically no air outlet if you installed it stock. I had to cut out a piece and drop it down, then re-glass it in place to get some low pressure at the outlet. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:17:22 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT At 02:23 PM 2/28/98 +0000, you wrote: >Micheal, do you know why or where can confirm that because it has >crossed my mind that the plug may be hotter than the Cylinder head? > >Regards Yea I have a Revmaster overhaul manual at the hanger and a Revmaster 2100 powered Dragonfly. I can double check it but I am sure 500 is redline and something like 480 or 490 is yellow. Your right about the plug being hotter than the rest of the engine. Also I have wondered in the past if anyone has ever played around with different heat ranges on the plugs? Something to think about anyway. The Revmaster sees about 380 in cruise and up to 450+ in climb in hot desert like conditions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:29:58 +0000 From: "flyer" Subject: Re: KR: VW CHT > > Hi can anyone advise please. > > > > My Rand KR2 has been flying since the summer > > with a 1835cc VW converted in the UK with twin plugs per cylinder. > > > > The engine runs hot with a CHT at an indicated 460F straight and > > level at anything over 3100 RPM. It would reach 480F in the climb if > > I let it. Probably higher as I've never tried. > > > > Could I ask what CHT other VW users are getting at; > I use the Westach CHT gauge on my T4 2400 with the sending unit under > the rear head bolt on #3 cylinder. The highest I have ever seen it on > climbout is 250 deg. In cruise, it always comes down to 190-200deg. My > compression ratio is 9:1 using 100LL. I beleive the T4 head is bigger, > and has more cooling fins. Oil temps are 200 deg. in cruise with OAT 75. > Max oil temp on climbout is 220. This is with a remote mounted oil > cooler on the firewall. I am told that this sort of cooler setup will > always run about 10 deg. hotter than a coler mounted directly in the > airstream. > Sounds like you may need to do some re-working on your cowl. The > Revmaster cowl that I received from Rand had practically no air outlet > if you installed it stock. I had to cut out a piece and drop it down, > then re-glass it in place to get some low pressure at the outlet. > > Tom Crawford Tom that is interesting, your saying your CHTs are about the same temperature as the oil! But I note that you measure temperature under a Cylinder bolt and not the plug. Your getting 250 (F I assume) and Micheal and Parley are getting 450+ under the plug. I think that tells me where you fit the CHT gauge is critical. I am going to try moving the thermocouple to the ear head bolt next time I re torque and I bet I get about 250 deg. Thanks for the advice. Regards Hedley Walker flyer@mcmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:02:42 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: anti-banana boat plans Rossy wrote: > I believe Mr Langford has done the development and solved the bananna boat That would be Mark Lougheed. He has complete sets of anti-banana plans for sale, with a quality level that you've probably not seen in this business before. His email address is MDLougheed@wport.com, or see his "Nearsite" web page for more info, accessible from my web site below. Mark Langford langford@hiwaay.net kr2s project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:57:11 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Valve keepers. MikeTnyc wrote: > I looked into mushroom-type swiveling adjusters once (for a motorcycle), but I > heard that they have sometimes fragged in use without warning, obviously with > catastrophic results. Is that what these adjusters are, and is this brand > particularly well made? Mike, I don't remember exactly who makes them, but there are several manufacturers. Like anything, I suppose there are the good ones and the cheap imitations (kinda like WAFs). I've never heard of one breaking, and would suspect that the way they're designed, that would be hard to do. I think they were actually OEM on some sort of Japanese engine, if my memory is anywhere near correct. I'll try to find out more... Mark Langford langford@hiwaay.net kr2s project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:42:19 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Admin posting only -- don't archive Well I finally checked the email at krnet@krnet.org for the month. Well it appeared that way with over 1000 emails. A couple of full mailboxes at AOL, worldnet.att.net, and some folks who just didn't think to tell me they had closed their accounts caused all the bottleneck. For each one of these, I get 3-6 messages per KRNET message per day. It doesn't take much for this to snowball. At any rate, I'm caught up again. Whew! Maybe next week I will finish updating the website, then again maybe not. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:44:43 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Progress Update Charged up my brake lines last night. Got brake fluid everywhere! but what fun. My brakes are now WORKING... for the first time since I built the darn things up about 7 years ago. I'm using the Matco master cylinders (upright), and the Matco disc brakes. One less thing on the check off list for my engine run. -- Ross N541RY http://www.krnet.org (your humble admin) http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm One of these days.... I will update those websites they are awfully out of date. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:34:35 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: HAPI starter KRNetHeads, Thanks to all who responded to my "mystery case" question a while back. Now that we've decided it's an early HAPI, I notice that it must have used a smaller starter with a shorter drive shaft/gear arrangement. Anybody know what kind of starter the HAPI cases used? Also, I remember someone mentioning using a Geo starter on the VW. Is the starter drive gear compatible with the VW flywheel ring gear, or do you have to swap them out with the stock or similar VW drive gear? I can't use this HAPI case because it won't fit the Type 4, but I'm interested in the type and size of starter that I can use with my drive shaft housing. Thanks in advance for any info on this... By the way, I got back from Wales yesterday. It was quite a trip. And I learned a lot about shop fabrication methods. I also hung out with a welding expert, who conviced me not to do it on any part of my prop shaft. Before I left for Wales I had the flu for several days. In the hectic few days before I left, I'd promised several people I'd do things for them, but apparently never got around to it before I left. One was Steve Eberhart's wind tunnel pictures, another was Dana Overall's antenna drawings. Anybody else I forgot to follow up on? If so, email me privately and I'll work on it. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #48 ****************************