From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, March 09, 1998 6:03 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #51 krnet-l-digest Monday, March 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 051 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 06:55:49 EST From: JEHayward Subject: Re: KR: Re: KRNet support In a message dated 98-03-08 02:13:55 EST, you write: << > Good idea. I like the donation-to-a-worthy cause idea too, but I >got to tell ya - I took enough flack off line on this donation issue to keep >me silent for a long, long time to come when it comes to KRNet support. ..................snip............. > >Randy (FKA Whinester) Stein I've long been a subscriber to National Public Radio, which whines like a cat in heat every fund drive but still gets only 10% of its listeners to subscribe. Maybe if KRNet called it "membership" and offered a button ..............snip......... Mike Taglieri >> I work for S. Dakota PBS as a station engineer. We know we have probably 80% who "take a free ride". The state pays our salary, buys the equipment, and maintains it. Their money goes ONLY to buy the programs we broadcast. I remember not too many years ago paying $24 a year for a bulletin board subscription to a local fellow so I could get a net for the TRS80 computers. Now here I am paying close to that EVERY MONTH for e-mail and internet access. Sure, you can get free e-mail and a lot of people do, it all depends on what's valuable to you. I've been saved grief over some portion of my KR project several times SOLELY because of the information available here. The information I've gleaned here in the past year has paid for that $10 many, many times over not to mention the web sites I've been able to visit, due to others efforts, and see pictures of a given subject. I have so many folders in this computer on various KR subjects it's not funny. My wife thinks I'm nuts with this stuff. That's also not to mention the folders and information about ultralights that I've accumulated in the past 8 months or so which HAS been without mention of donations. Both "nets" have provided me with experience concerning projects that I would have NEVER been able to obtain without years of work with the given project. No, I don't have money to throw around but I doube I would complain about donating even if the request were double. I just think of how I'd feel if either net were to go away because someone no longer had the time or dedication not to mention their own monies to give toward their net. The $10 is a very small amount to pay for this great resource of information and experience. Soap Box Mode Off Now Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:37:15 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Info request At 21:36 3/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >I have the UMAX Astra 1200S. I got it for $400, it now goes for $249. It >has a hardware resolution of 600x1200 DPI.... If you plan to do >a lot of printing of your pics, I would get the higher hardware resolution >scanner. For printers, I like the Epson Stylus Color 800 and 600. >Robert Covington > So - how does that combination do on portraits of Lincoln, Jackson etc? (Just joking - though its a growing problem from mom & pop shops, I hear...) Whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:24:59 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: 2180 Upgrade (long) The history of the case I used for my 2180 upgrade is it was originally built up at a speed shop using HAPI specs from a book titled How To Build a Reliable VW Aero Engine in 1982 and had never been run. Upon breaking the case apart I found that it had been line bored to .5mm over on the crank saddles. In addition to this finding, the oil galley from the # 2 saddle to what would be the prop bearing was totally stopped up necesitating the drilling out of the bore plug in the front of the case to clean this galley and subsequent plugging of this drill hole. In addition to this I found both oil pressure relief plungers were stuck and could not be removed without using an easy-out. The oil cooler would have probably blown off the top of the engine before the prop bearing siezed due to the plugged oil galley if I had started the engine. After taking care of these problems I scrubbed the oil gallies out using copper bore brushes from a gun shop, had the case halves hot dipped, brushed out again and then taken to the car wash and the case halves were pressure washed, paying attention to the oil gallies for the crank and cam. After doing this I air dried the case halves using my compressor and then lightly coated the interiors with a light oil. Pay particular attention to the cleaning of your case, as any particles left in the case are going to be in your oil. Installing the cam gear and distributor gear was a piece of cake. Clean your crank extremely well and coat the inside of the one piece bearing with engine assembly lube and slide it on. Put both gears in the oven at 400 degrees for about 15 minutes and they easily slide over the taper end of the crank, cool and contract onto the crank. Be sure and install the cam gear with the timing marks facing the front on the crank. After laying the crank and cam into case, with plenty of assembly lube, I found all my clearences well within tolerance and was able to use three rear end play shims to achieve .005 end play. You are looking for between .004 and .008. What Steve has you do here is bolt on the flywheel, measure your clearence and call him for the appropriate size shims or shim. There will be shims in your engine when you split the case. What I did kept my three shims but then went to VW repair shop and the guy handed me probably 50 shims and said "here you'll need all these the find the three you actually need". He was right, it took several combinations. Get this clearence right. You don't want to prematurely wear you case out, tolerances are close enough in there, you don't need to exagerate these. The upgrade kit from Great Plains is some kind of quality. It really is nice to work with such high quality stuff, thanks Steve. Guys if you have any questions he gladly answers them for you, great help. In additon to the quality, everything you need is included. It really is quality, I tried to convince my wife to let me put the billet forged crank above the mantle and get another one for the engine, but she wouldn't go for it. You temporarily reassemble the case halves couple of times, so save your old thru stud nuts and washers for this purpose. You need to do this with someone else around as you will be turning the crank through with a rod attached and then with all rods, one piston (less both rings and spacer) and one cylinder to see is the opposing rod will hit the piston skirt. Hint, this is a good time to go ahead and put in your new cam plug so that you size it to the case. Be sure and mark it on the outside so that it will go back in the same way later. When you are going to permanently bolt the case halves together be sure that the case half face of both halves are clean, once again I used carb cleaner and a rag. You cannot use too much assembly lube so generously lube your crank and cam bearings and with the help a another person sit in your crank with the rod machine marks pointing up and install the cam into the case halve (stud side) by splitting the timing marks on the crank with the one on the cam and rotate the crank down which will sit the cam into it's bearings. Once again make sure the halves stay clean along with the berarigs, as the lube hold any particles you drop onto it, be careful. Be sure and lube your end play shims and do not use more than three shims, the word is you will spin the main bearing if you do. Put in your rear seal and marked cam plug now. If you haven't heard of it, use Loketite 518 between the case halves, it seem to be great stuff and recommended by Great Plains. You may have to get an auto parts store to order it for you or Steve sells it also, about the same price ($12.00 a tube or so). With the stud side down lube the lifters (mark these when you take them out if you are going to reuse them) on the other half, insert them and then you can place a finger in each of the four pushrod holes to hold the lifters in while you pick up the case and run it over the six thru bolts. Follow the torque sequencing on the halves and it's back together. Sorry for the length but maybe there's a couple of helpful hints to avoid some pitfalls. If you have a mechanical mind you can do this, but if you don't know something don't do it. These are incredibly simple engines but your butt's hanging behind it. If my engine was not preassemble by someone like Great Plains, I'd break it down and have a look-see. I'll let you know how the custom made pushrod making goes (you get blank rod you have to cut and assemble for correct length). Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:24:44 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: 2180 (short) & info request. The 2180 (long) post is just that, it's long but hopefully I've included a couple of hints. As far as web page info goes, I used quicksite light which can be downloaded from the net free. It works nicely. The pictures on my page were scanned from a Mustek 1200 III EP at 100 dpi and saved in the jpg format. I'll post 7 pictures I have scanned of the upgrade onto my web site this evening. The print quality of pictures to a color printer are limited only by the quality of your printer but even the "cheap" ones now will print a quality page. Price wise in todays Best Buy ad, a UMAX 30-bit 610 is $99.99 and a Mustek 1200 III EP is $169.99. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:37:00 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: Re: KR-net support, used to be Traveling Panel Planner... BSHADR wrote: > but I > got to tell ya - I took enough flack off line on this donation issue to keep > me silent for a long, long time to come when it comes to KRNet support. > Apparently my interest to build KRNet to a point of self sufficiency doesn’t > sit well with some. Heaven help us if Ross gets fed up and bails…I’ll bet his > sys admin job is not one most of us would/could do. > > Randy (FKA Whinester) Stein - ------------------------- Randy: I can put up with your whine. Some one must do it. One idea to make $$ for KR-Net may be to publish a calendar and sell it at the next gathering. There are enough good pictures of KRs around that we should be able to put together a good KR Kalendar. I know I would buy a couple of them. I don't know what it would cost to do, but if we can print T-shirts we should be able to figure out how to make a calendar with a dozen good pictures of KRs. Just a thought. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 11:40:08 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: 2180 Upgrade At 11:24 3/8/98 EST, Dana wrote: >The history of the case I used for my 2180 upgrade is it was originally built >up at a speed shop using HAPI specs from a book titled How To Build a Reliable >VW Aero Engine in 1982 and had never been run. > Upon breaking the case apart I found that it had been line bored to .5mm >over on the crank saddles. ... > Sorry for the length but maybe there's a couple of helpful hints to avoid >some pitfalls.... >Dana Overall > Here's one pitfall Dana didn't mention. ( it probably just doesn't arise on the GP components.) If you have a crank with undersize mains - which is quite likely - make sure that EITHER the crank turns freely on a trial fitting in the case, OR that the edges of the main shell bearings are relieved so that they don't rub on the smoothly radiused corners of the main journals on the crankshaft. (There is NOTHING so aggravating as needing to split the case after "glueing it together with the most oil-resistant gasket cement you can find...) Whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:22:06 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR-net support, used to be Traveling Panel Planner... In a message dated 98-03-08 11:43:12 EST, you write: << Randy: I can put up with your whine. Some one must do it. One idea to make $$ for KR-Net may be to publish a calendar and sell it at the next gathering. There are enough good pictures of KRs around that we should be able to put together a good KR Kalendar. >> I like it!!!! That'd be a Kalendar I'd use. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:29:42 From: Flesner Subject: KR: wing attach fittings Fellow netters, The cost and complexity of the wing attach fittings ( W.A.F. ) was recently discussed on the net. Does anyone have the current "offical" price for the W.A.F.'s from RR ? Someone posted the info that they were now $400 to $500 dollars. With that figure in mind, I obtained bids on having them made so I could make them available to builders. Today I saw on the RR homepage that they are listed for $235. I can make them available for considerable less than the $400 but not $235. If someone has the "current " offical price, please e-mail me and I will see if I have a deal for builders or not and if so, post it on the net. Thanks, Larry Flesner flesner@mychoice.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:12:28 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: calendar idea Marvin suggested we do a calendar next year. I'd be happy to take some air to air pictures at the Gathering this year for such an endeavor. I'd be willing to do it for nothing, except I'd have to give everybody involved an 8" x 10" of their plane in flight... That way I get free KR time in a variety of KRs, and get the opportunity to get some really nice web page photos. We're a little overdue ya know. I tried to do this last year, but didn't make it clear enough that I wasn't going to charge anything, so the pilots were a little skeptical. An open cockpit plane would be a plus too, if anybody has any ideas on that. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 16:04:25 -0600 From: Brian J Bland Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings At 01:29 PM 3/8/98, you wrote: >Does anyone have the current "offical" >price for the W.A.F.'s from RR ? >Someone posted the info that they were now $400 to $500 dollars. >With that figure in mind, I obtained bids on having them made so >I could make them available to builders. Today I saw on the RR >homepage that they are listed for $235. I can make them >available for considerable less than the $400 but not $235. If >someone has the "current " offical price, please e-mail me and I >will see if I have a deal for builders or not and if so, post it >on the net. > > Thanks, > > Larry Flesner > flesner@mychoice.net > Larry, I saw the new price list at Chinokosh. The WAF's were $400 or $405 I can't seem to find the price sheet right now. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 16:08:52 -0600 From: Brian J Bland Subject: KR: Rex Ellingtons E-mail Address Anybody happen to know Rex's e-mail address? My e-mail software quit on me and I lost all my old e-mails along with Rex's mailing address. I need his address to mail him the Newsletters. Rex is a digest member so I don't know when he will see this. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:08:46 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Rex Ellingtons E-mail Address At 16:08 3/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >Anybody happen to know Rex's e-mail address? My e-mail software quit on me >and I lost all my old e-mails along with Rex's mailing address. I need his >address to mail him the Newsletters. Rex is a digest member so I don't >know when he will see this. > > >Brian J Bland >Claremore, OK > >bbland@busprod.com >http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm > > Hehe...looks like the left coast AND the right coast sets are both in Oklohoma just now. I had a set from Marvin which I had copied yesterday at the local copy shop "The Paper Tree". I will be mailing them on to John Bouyea at Oregon, tomorrow. I bargained for $27 thinking there might be about 600 sheets. They charged me $23 and said there were about 450 single-sided sheets to copy. I noticed my "originals" came in a 'Mailboxes' box - but they weren't really originals but copies. Under Marvin's mailing label was one from Dana. I have forgotten if the real "originals" had been copied up-front then sent to Oscar for CDing, or what. Anyway, I'm very pleased to get this archival material. Thanks! Brian Whatcott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 15:31:02 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings At 01:29 PM 3/8/98, you wrote: > Fellow netters, > > The cost and complexity of the wing attach fittings ( W.A.F. ) was recently discussed on the net. Does anyone have the current "offical" >price for the W.A.F.'s from RR ?>>> $400 as of ChinoKosh ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Proud Member of the Area 51 BBA mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims mirror site at : http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:19:11 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Rex Ellingtons E-mail Address In a message dated 98-03-08 18:10:47 EST, you write: << I have forgotten if the real "originals" had been copied up-front then sent to Oscar for CDing, or what. Anyway, I'm very pleased to get this archival material. Thanks! Brian Whatcott >> Brian, Oscar got the originals which were actually copies (still the best deal we had). Just send on the ones you get in the mail, that way the next person will have the same copy quality as you. What you got were the copies I made of the ones I sent to Oscar. I don't know about the number of pages, I believe though that were gaps in the numbering sequence. Have fun reading. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:26:07 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: calendar idea In a message dated 98-03-08 15:20:34 EST, you write: << That way I get free KR time in a variety of KRs, and get the opportunity to get some really nice web page photos. We're a little overdue ya know. >> Mark, Like I said to Marvin, I'll go for that idea even if we want to do a "short" year. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:40:29 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 6:31 PM Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings >At 01:29 PM 3/8/98, you wrote: >> Fellow netters, >> >> The cost and complexity of the wing attach fittings ( W.A.F. ) was >recently discussed on the net. Does anyone have the current "offical" >>price for the W.A.F.'s from RR ?>>> > >$400 as of ChinoKosh >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Mine are currently being made out of stainless steel Cost = 0 AARP (the Association for the Advancement of Richard Parker) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:34:14 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Web Page Pictures. I've finally posted 7 pictures of different stages of the engine upgrade up to and including the reassembly of the case halves. Go the the engine page and I've deleted the prior engine pictures. PS (personal) My son's surgically repaired finger has circulation, I'll repeat, ain't micro surgery neat. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:37:15 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings At 18:40 3/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >>... the wing attach fittings ( W.A.F. )... >Mine are currently being made out of stainless steel >Cost = 0 >AARP >(the Association for the Advancement of Richard Parker) > Any particular alloy? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:05:25 -0600 From: Brian J Bland Subject: KR:Weight & Balance Program Just thought some of you guys might be interested in this: >To: Sooblist , Q-List , > Jimmy Masal , Dragonlist , > Darryl Wright , AirSig >Subject: Weight & Balance Program > >As promised, the Weight and Balance program package and documentaion is on the web at >http://www.si-inc.com/dragonfly/w&b/ > >You can read and/or print the booklet from the website, and there is a link which you >can click on to automatically download a self-extracting .EXE file containing the >software. > >As always, if you have trouble, remember it is a big file (both the web page and the >download file), so be patient and try during non-busy times (ie NOT on Wednesday between >10-2pm) to fetch the page and software. > >If your systems fails to get my stuff, email me and I'll attempt a direct email >attachment to you. > >The Private Pilot's Written Exam Q&A software is also on the web and is located at >http://www.si-inc.com/dragonfly/yadi-yadi/ > >When you get to the site, single click on FAAEXAM.EXE file for downloading. The >questions and answers are current through the last FAA change in October, 1997. To >effectively use the software for studying, you will need the package of charts and >symbols that can be purchased from the FED or is packed in such study guides as Gleim's >(Big Red Book). > >Regardss to all, > >Don Stewart > Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:35:07 EST From: ECLarsen81 Subject: Re: KR: calendar idea In a message dated 98-03-08 19:29:48 EST, you write: << << That way I get free KR time in a variety of KRs, and get the opportunity to get some really nice web page photos. We're a little overdue ya know. >> Mark, Like I said to Marvin, I'll go for that idea even if we want to do a "short" year. >> Why a "short year" Just add a unfinished KR between finished months, that'll get some guys motivated to at least wipe off the dust for a good picture of the project. ;-) maybe even get a little more done before the picture. Gee, you could even get artistic and start Jan with an emty bench and add stages of completion thoughout the Year. Ed Larsen Ypsi, Mi ECLarsen81@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:38:38 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: KR: Kalender I like the calender idea, put me in for two when the idea flys. Grat way to support the list. Even if they are priced at $10. eac, its a great idea. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:51:17 -0600 From: Brian J Bland Subject: KR:Dragonfly canopy Anybody out there know how much the Dragonfly canopy is currently selling for? I am trying to make my final decision on which canopy to go with. Thanks, Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:03:29 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: KR: WAF's Has anyone thought about checking out if it would be feasible to find someone who might have one of those computerized plazma torche system for cutting out the WAF's. I was wondering what the quality would be and if the WAF's would be safe enough to use on aircraft. just a thought John F. (one fuse side done) Esch Salem, Oregon http://www.cyberis.net/~sesch ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:14:59 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: Re: KR: t88 Hi All, I agree fully with Marvin. Alcohol and T88 Epoxy do not mix. There is no way you want to "thin" it anyway. If the work is properly prepared, the T88 will bond it. If the T88 is crystallized, heat it up in some hot water and the cloudiness will go away and it will be OK to use. BRGDS Marty --Original Message----- From: MARVIN MCCOY To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 06 March, 1998 09:37 Subject: Re: KR: t88 >Mike: > You may be able to thin T88 with alcohol but I would not do it and use >it in my airplane unless you have some knowledge of chemistry. Just my >thoughts. > >Marvin McCoy >Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field >mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net > >------------------------- > >MikeT nyc wrote: >> >> >>I've had some T88 for over two years now. Even though I've used >> >>(fresh)T88 extensively, I never felt comfortable with the stuff because >> >>it didn't seem to penetrate the wood more than a few thousanths. Now >> >>that its older, it seems to be even more viscous on application >> >> >Make sure you are coating both sides of the joint, that helps with the >> >seeping in, and keeps the joint from getting too dry. If it is cold, that >> >will effect the viscosity too. >> >> I thought you could thin overly viscous epoxy with alcohol. >> >> Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 05:08:04 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. Anybody know the answer to this question? I haven't quite gotten to the prop part yet... Please copy him on the email, and I'll invite him to sign up with KRNet. Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Don & Esther Walters > To: langford@hiwaay.net > Subject: Kr2s prop. > Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 12:39 AM > > Mark. > > I have a friend who is building a "Kr2s, and is now at the prop. He > would like to know what the bolts torque out at. Can you be of any > help? > > I have given him downloads of you info and it has been very helpful. > > Thank you. > > Don > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:08:25 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings > Any particular alloy? > >Brian 316L Richard Parker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 09:25:23 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. Mark Langford wrote: > > Anybody know the answer to this question? > > I have a friend who is building a "Kr2s, and is now at the prop. He > > would like to know what the bolts torque out at. Can you be of any > > help? I have an O-200 that came out of a Vari-Eze. It used a wooded prop and required 18-20 ft-# or 220 inch-# on the prop bolts. I also remember that you were supposed to retorque every 50 hours or every three months. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:57:06 EST From: Horn2004 Subject: Re: Re: KR: calendar idea I guess it=92s time to roll up my sleeves a little and pitch in. I=92m a graphic designer/art director who owns and operates a small desig= n=0Astudio in Dallas, TX. If we get enough interest in the calendar idea,= I=92d be=0Awilling to layout the calendar and handle the production supe= rvision end as=0Awell (pre-press and printing). I would not be interested= in trying to hunt=0Adown photography, though. If this were supplied (pre= ferably in color=0Atransparency form) I could take it from there. To make= it interesting, I'd=0Alike to have a fairly comprehensive description fr= om the owner/builder of each=0Aaircraft, including notable modifications,= etc. to go along with the image for=0Aeach month. There are a couple things to consider first. 1. Are you/we thinking of a 4-color job with color photos, or black and w= hite=0Aphotos? If we went with B&W photos (cost effective for short runs = re:=0Aprinting), do you think people would want to spend the bucks on tha= t? 2. What sort of quantities are we talking about here? 3. If this is intended to generate revenue for the KRNet, would the cost = of=0Athe calendar be wrapped into the yearly "dues"? If so, we might have= to re-=0Athink this a little. My point is, if we are having difficulty g= etting $10 out=0Aof the subscribers now, do you think they would be willi= ng to cough-up $20 for=0Adues + calendar, just to have the calendar? Shor= t run calendars tend to have a=0Ahigh unit cost, although there are some = decent short run 4-color technologies=0Awhich may make this feasible. I c= ould find out roughly what it would cost if=0Awe can pin down quantity an= d colors. Let me know if you'd like my help. I could use a little break from all th= ese=0Acorporate clients and their stress-generating deadlines. Steve Horn Dallas, TX Horn2004@aol.com=0A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 08:14:07 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: calendar idea-No archive >I could use a little break from all these corporate clients and their stress-generating deadlines. Heck, Steve! What stress? It's only March right now, and you have till, oh, November to get the calendars done! ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:08:45 EST From: LVav8r Subject: Re: KR: wing attach fittings In a message dated 98-03-08 17:05:56 EST, Brian writes: << Larry, I saw the new price list at Chinokosh. The WAF's were $400 or $405 I can't seem to find the price sheet right now. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm >> I have the price list that Jeannette Rand dropped off at Mims hangar for Chinokosh. The price for the WAF's is now $395.00. I also dropped by RR on Monday and talked with her for a couple of hours and she said that she should probably have charged more like $415, so I wouldn't be supprised if there is another price increase before long. I dodged having to pay that price since Mike Stearns dropped by while everyone else went to chow down at "Flo's Airport Cafe" and offered to sell his WAF's for only $150.00!!! I decided that I would rather go for a ride in Mims hangarmates Dragonfly than eat, and while he was preflighting was when Stearns showed up. How lucky can I get!! Got a deal on WAF's and a ride in a really nice homebuilt too!! Besides, anyone there can tell you that I could probably stand to miss a few more meals!! : ) Anyway, thanks Mike for hosting Chinokosh! Tom Kilgore Las Vegas, NV LVav8r@aol.com http://members.aol.com/LVav8r/index.html KR-2S 2% complete __I__ _______( X )_______ o/ \o ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:33:11 EST From: Horn2004 Subject: Re: KR: calendar idea-No archive In a message dated 3/9/98 10:15:04 AM, you wrote: <> EXACTLY my point! Steve Horn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:56:32 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: calendar idea In a message dated 98-03-09 09:59:56 EST, you write: << Let me know if you'd like my help. I could use a little break from all these corporate clients and their stress-generating deadlines. Steve Horn >> Steve, you can count on me for a couple. Just save yourself some grief and don't mention the "dues" word, I'm sure Randy cringed when he saw that word. I'm sure between all the web pages we all have, we could come up with a dozen pictures each year no problem. I'll throw in my support but it sounds like "you're the man":-)). Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:07:48 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Vinyl Ester Resin I just got an order in from AS&S that has all my glass fuel tank stuff. I ended up having to get vinyl ester resin as they told me they did not carry Hexcel anymore. I need a hand here. I got a gallon of resin and 4oz of mekp catalyst and it is to mix one gallon for the 4oz, I've never worked with vinyl ester. How easy is this stuff to work with, can you work with it under 70F, do large mixes exotherm, how fast does it set up, etc? Any advice would be appreciated, I only want to do this once (yeah, right!!). Thanks gang. Brian, Oscar & Ron, I'll get with you off the net about the panel planner. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:22:40 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester Resin At 03:07 PM 3/9/98 EST, you wrote: I got a gallon of resin and 4oz of mekp catalyst and it is to mix one gallon for the 4oz, I've never worked with vinyl ester. How >easy is this stuff to work with, can you work with it under 70F, do large >mixes exotherm, how fast does it set up, etc? >>>>> You should get with Mark Langford, he would be a great resource on how to work with vinylester! Or is that how NOT to work with it Mark? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Proud Member of the Area 51 BBA mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims mirror site at : http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:36:40, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Vinyl Ester Resin We use 5 to 10 oz. MEKP per cup of resin depending on temperature. Don't mix more than you can use in about 10 min. It also helps to get it spread out as soon as possible to prevent exotherm even in small batches. When you notice it turning to a jelly like consistency you are done don't try to do more. get your brushes and other tools into acitone. It sounds like they shorted you on MEKP but go by the direction that they supply becasuse you may have a hotter resin. I would suggest you start with a small project first . An average bean can will be about enough to wet out a fuel tank size layup. Good luck. Jean N4DD (laying up cowl in new mold ) Broken Arrow,OK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:57:43 EST From: LDeckert Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester Resin Dana, I used 4 cc of mekp to 8 oz of resin at around 70 degrees and it set up real quick (20-30 minutes). The colder it is, the more mekp you need. It depends on the resin, it comes as 'promoted' (quick set), 'slow' (24 hours) and I think a 'regular' (don't know for sure about this one). Anyway, you can adjust the set time by varying the amount of mekp. There were times when I used about 1.5 cc's to 4 oz of resin and had about 30-40 minutes of work time. You might want to give Dan Diehl a call. He had the best set of instructions (cc's per oz's per temp) I've found (can't find the notes now though, typical huh?). When I was building my tanks and wings (bought Dan's skins), the fast set was really nice for the tanks, but I sure wish I'd have used the 'slow' stuff when putting on the wing skins! Four guys hurrin' like mad, and if we'd spent another 5 minutes doing the skins, I'd of had to figure out how to get 'em apart and start over. Hope this helps. Larry Deckert Sandy, Ut (801) 561-3573 In a message dated 98-03-09 15:12:49 EST, you write: << I need a hand here. I got a gallon of resin and 4oz of mekp catalyst and it is to mix one gallon for the 4oz, I've never worked with vinyl ester. How easy is this stuff to work with, can you work with it under 70F, do large mixes exotherm, how fast does it set up, etc? Any advice would be appreciated, I only want to do this once (yeah, right!!). Thanks gang. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:04:43 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Vinyl Ester Resin Jean wrote: > We use 5 to 10 oz. MEKP per cup of resin depending on temperature. I guess you meant cc's instead of ounces, huh? I usually used only about a fourth of the 4 ounces of MEKP that they shipped me. The rest inevitably got poured out when handling with the incrdeibly sticky fingers that develop after about 2 minutes of layup work, so I eventually learned to separate it into two different bottles. The directions say to use between 1% and 2.5% catalyst by weight, which ain't much. I filled a mixing cup of known volume up with 400 grams of vinylester (maybe 12 ounces, but I'm purely guessing) , and then in another identical cup, added 4 grams of catalyst. When I added the grams I counted the number of drops as I administered the "medicine" with a small 10cc syringe (you can get these from the vet or drug store, minus the needle). This gave me the ratio of number of drops of resin to number of grams of resin, and it isn't much, I assure you. I vaguely remember (fortunately my brain blocks most of these traumatic experiences for me) adding about 1cc (a quarter of a thimble full) to 200 grams If you have "medium" promoted resin like I did, it will start to gel on your warm gloves in minutes. If you don't have it where you want it in 15 minutes, you're toast! And I'm talking 1% ratio here. Maybe 6-10 drops per mixing cup is all it took) Any more would be potential suicide, unless you use it like 5 minute epoxy. Just lay EVERYTHING out in order. Precut all glass, and definitely don't even think about answering the phone. Like I said though, you should have 3/4 of that bottle left over when you're done. And this ain't rocket science. I think the stuff will cure eventually with practically NO catalyst, but it would take years. Even properly mixed, the stuff gets real warm in a hurry. Small batches are a must. I've often wondered if AS&S didn't screw up my batch and label some "fast" as "medium", but since I had to wait FOUR MONTHS for the second gallon (after I ordered it), I know they were from different batches. May the Force be with you... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #51 ****************************