From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, May 24, 1998 7:54 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #85 krnet-l-digest Sunday, May 24 1998 Volume 02 : Number 085 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:28:58 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab Austin Clark wrote: > > I am going to build my trim tab in a few days. The plans call for it to be > 4" by 10". For those flying, would you make it larger or is the size > adequate. > > Austin Clark > Pascagoula, MS > mailto:itac@datasync.com > http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ Austin, If I were to build another, I would make it bigger. The plane is very sensitive to different loads. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:25:50 -0400 From: "Ron Rheude" Subject: Re: KR: Re: East Coast Gathering Ron, Oops! Excuse my sometimes being dense. Ah yes! Good point!!!! At least 51% to go! I just wasn't thinking that way. Thanks, Ron - -----Original Message----- From: Ron Lee To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 12:46 AM Subject: Re: KR: Re: East Coast Gathering >The hint is that to get your repairman's certficate you have to build 51%. > >Ron > >At 12:28 AM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Ron, >> >>Ah yes, learn-ed words from an experienced KR builder. You're right because >>I've allready found several items that I'll be "re-doing". But actually, >>It's really pretty well along. Wings built, fuselage on gear, empenage >>attached, controls in progress. Still need wing stubs covered, cowl, front >>deck, canopy frame and rear deck. Have 1835 VW and canopy. I'm thinking >>tanks in wing stubs with a small header tank. Want to convert from original >>gear to tri-gear. Yep, lot's of construction fun left! I saw Tom >>Crawford's beautiful KR-2 down at Sun & Fun and I'm inspired! >> >>Hey great timing on the East/Central Coast Gathering. I'm just planning to >>tell my boss that I'm on vacation for a week and a half and I'll catch the >>East/Central Coast Gathering over the weekend of July 25th and 26th and fly >>on from there to Oshkosh which opens on July 29th. Talk about getting your >>aviation fix! >> >> >> Ron >> >>mailto:srheude@erols.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ron Lee >>To: krnet-l@teleport.com >>Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 10:50 PM >>Subject: Re: KR: Re: East Coast Gathering >> >> >>>Ron, I suspect your project is only about 40-45% complete. >>> >>>Ron Lee >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>At 10:39 PM 5/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>Dana, >>>> >>>>I'm a new KR-2 builder (acquired a 60% complete project) and would >>certainly >>>>plan to attend an East Coast Gathering. I'm located in the north eastern >>>>Virginia area (Washington, D.C. suburb). Since my KR2 is a ways from >>>>completion, I'd be real interested in a location to which I could fly my >>>>spam can (1965 Alon AirCoupe) without having to take a lot of time off >>from >>>>work to accomplish it. (Yes, I have to work to pay for all of this fun!) >>>>Anyhow, I'm interested but I'm sorry that my work schedule doesn't provide >>>>more time for KR-2 building, but I could likely find some way to support >>>>this effort. >>>> >>>> Ron Rheude >>>> >>>>mailto:srheude@erols.com >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: KR2 616TJ >>>>To: krnet-l@teleport.com >>>>Date: Sunday, May 17, 1998 7:36 AM >>>>Subject: KR: East Coast Gathering >>>> >>>> >>>>>In addition too, not as an alternative too the National KR Gathering in >>>>>Perry-----anybody up for an east coast gathering. I've been talking with >>>>Mark >>>>>Langford and we've thrown out a couple of ideas. I know there a lot of >>>>>builders on the KRNet around Atlanta, there are a bunch in FL, there >>aren't >>>>>many around me.....although Rough River and Kentucky Dam State Parks sure >>>>are >>>>>nice :-)), we've even mentioned Columbia, TN.. Seriously, anybody up for >>>>>this, I'll volunteer my time to do a mailing to all the east coast KR >>guys >>>>we >>>>>know about, or whatever...........................Anybody else up for it? >>>>> >>>>>Dana Overall >>>>>Richmond, KY >>>>>mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >>>>>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:50:30 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Posa rebuilder PosaHeads, I noticed in the recent issue of Experimenter magazine a phone number for a guy who rebuilds Posa carburetors. Neil Sidders, 318-343-7000. Maybe he makes those hard to find needles too... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:50:32 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: urethane glue report GlueHeads, I've managed to lived long enough to test the ProBond (trademark!) urethane glue that Dr. Dean and I bought at Home Depot. This particular brand must not be what Troy refers to as "Gorilla Glue". He got that at a foam supply place in Nashville, and I'll try to get some and test it. He swears by THAT stuff. ProBond is about 2 or 3 times as dense as 2 lb foam. It does (like Bob said) leave a bit of a ridge which has to be removed, and the resulting low spots filled with micro. But the good news is that it is super strong, and cures good enough to use in an hour or two. It expands a fraction of what the two part foams do, and takes 15 minutes to do it so you have much more working time. I'd say it's a good compliment to the two part foam. It's sanding properties are actually better than two part foam, and you have more time to work with it and it's not as messy. It's water activated so you mist water on one piece of foam and paint the urethane on the other. Stick them together and in an hour you can bond two pieces of 2" foam together, or whatever. The beauty of this is that you can paint the stuff on all the surfaces to be joined, and then mist everything with water and stick it together. I used them to make my trailing edge for my stub wing, and am very happy with the results. The true test may be to see if it continues to expand after being subjected to warmer temperatures. Perhaps spending the day outside in the sun will be sufficient. What I've been doing to minimize that problem is to only put the expanding stuff where it never reaches the airfoil surface, and using micro to fill in the gaps when laying down the foam layer. Today I glue the leading edges and trailing edges to my stub wing, and because of the fast setting nature of this stuff, I'll be sanding to contour this afternoon. Tomorrow I flip it and install the wing tank top, and sand it to contour. Then it's glass time on Monday! Then it's on to the outboard wings. If we can find the source of "Gorilla Glue" we may have found something. I'll get Troy to read me the label on it today... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:16:17 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Columbia, TN Gathering I'll try to make it, but am driving in from Kansas. KR2S still under construction. Need to find someone in the Kansas area with KR2 or KR2S to fly with and become familiar with the KR before I try mine. Rich McCall Junction City, KS Darrin West wrote: > KR2 616TJ wrote: > > > > OK, guys like Mark said, our East Coast Gathering will be held this year at > > Maury Co. Airport (MRC) in Columbia, TN, Saturday July 25th. If you are > > planning on attending please let Mark Landford, or myself know so that we can > > have somewhat of a head count. Thanks for all the responses, I heard from > > numerous people off the KRNet. We were obviously unable to accommodate > > everyones wishes for the location but I hope you will understand the thought > > process. We want to make this a fun flying Saturday and not just a bunch of > > builders (like me) and be able to provide hotel space for those who want to > > make a weekend of it (I plan on this). We have three people, Troy, Mark and > > myself in three different states trying to put this thing together on somewhat > > of a short notice so we needed an airport we were familiar with, close to a > > major airport for commercial travel, one that was within easy flying distance > > of 12 or 15, or more, states and one that had a KR on the field belonging to > > someone who would be willing to lend a hand. We know what we have at > > Columbia. The FBO was disappointed when we moved the gathering before. Also > > we needed a weekend somewhere that nothing else was going on, the airshow was > > a nice idea but be want to see KRs flying. If your KR is flying and you can > > make it there, come on down (or up). I doubt mine will be finished by then, > > but I'll keep at it. Quick reference, Columbia, TN is about 30 nm, by air, > > south of Nashville with a 6000 ft. runway, away from everything, great airport > > and hopefully will have several flying KRs for all you guys who "need a ride". > > Hope you understand our reasoning here guys, and hope to see everyone there. > > Again let us know if you are interested...........and pass the word. > > > > Dana Overall > > Richmond, KY > > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > Hey Tom C., > Whats the chance of me paying for some fuel for a ride to Tenn.? > Darrin West > KR-1 > dwest@rose.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:53:52 EDT From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab In a message dated 98-05-23 08:16:13 EDT, you write: << Bubba engineering can be good, especially when it does not hurt anything. Having it but not needing is fine. But does your reasoning suggest that the incidences of the flying surfaces may be off? Me thinks that Mark's (?) adjustable elevator is a great idea. Ron Lee >> Sure, Ron the adjustable elevator is a great idea, I've seen it and it's neat.......but, for those of us who are past that point, I believe the trim tab size can solve a world of problems in load variance in regards to the pitch sensitivity of the plane. When I returned from Sun & Fun the first thing I did was remove my tab and make a larger one while I still could. I really don't think it's an incidence problem as much as the plane just being so $%#%@#$ pitch sensitive and the change in CG amplified due to fuel in a header tank and the addition of a passenger. Austin, I'm trying to keep this going in hopes that a true engineer will tell you what size to make it although it's probably going to be an arbitrary thing. Anyway, I ended up making mine 5"X 12" as I didn't want to make it too big as the thing is only foam and glass. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:34:37 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: urethane glue report Mark Langford wrote: > > GlueHeads, > > > > If we can find the source of "Gorilla Glue" we may have found something. > I'll get Troy to read me the label on it today... > > Mark Langford > - --------------------------- Just a note: You can get Gorilla Glue at "The Woodworkers Store", They are a chain with many stores around the states and they also have mail order. They have a web site but it took a long time to get a catalogue when I ordered it from the Web page. I tried the 3M foam adhesive in wicks catalogue page 160 and it seemed to work real good for urethane but melted the styrene. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:22:36 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab Sorry Dana, but I'll have to argue this point with you. You can compensate for a horizontal stab with an incorrect incidence with a larger trim tab, but the problem is still the incidence of the tail. I have lots of trim added to the bottom side of my elevator to compensate for the horizontal stab being mounted at an incorrect angle...as per plans. With the additional trim wedges permanently affixed to the bottom of the elevator, my stock trim tab does a fine job of handling every load and CG condition I can get this plane into. As a matter of fact, that was a requirement I made during the test phase. The plane should flyable from cruise to landing with trim only in all legal load configurations. The stock trim tab passed that test with plenty of trim to spare once I added the additional wedges to the bottom of the elevator. I know from talking to others that this has been a fairly common problem, especially if you are flying in the forward part of the CG range. The incidence of the horizontal stab when set per plans does not work well if you are flying in the forward part of the CG range. If it's too late to change the incidence on your tail, then an extra big trim tab is one of your options. Just realize that you are doing it to compensate for an incorrect tail incidence and that it will be creating extra drag. As for pitch sensativity, that is a completely separate subject and in my opinion is unrelated to the lack or trim or incorrect tail incidence. BTW, I turned 100 hours on my KR this morning since the first flight nearly a year ago. :o) Regards, Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > >Sure, Ron the adjustable elevator is a great idea, I've seen it and it's >neat.......but, for those of us who are past that point, I believe the trim >tab size can solve a world of problems in load variance in regards to the >pitch sensitivity of the plane. When I returned from Sun & Fun the first >thing I did was remove my tab and make a larger one while I still could. I >really don't think it's an incidence problem as much as the plane just being >so $%#%@#$ pitch sensitive and the change in CG amplified due to fuel in a >header tank and the addition of a passenger. > >Austin, I'm trying to keep this going in hopes that a true engineer will tell >you what size to make it although it's probably going to be an arbitrary >thing. Anyway, I ended up making mine 5"X 12" as I didn't want to make it too >big as the thing is only foam and glass. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 23:16:37 EDT From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Foam and Fuel >>Is that blue foam you used fuel proof? I remember you telling me at Chino >Kosh >>that you plan to install wing tanks. Interesting having to pick between making your wings out of a foam that dissolves in gasoline compared to making them out of a foam that liberates cyanide gas if the plane has a fire. Which way would you want to go if you had a choice? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 00:04:01 -0500 From: Ed Janssen Subject: KR: Polyurethane glues There have been several postings on "Gorilla" glue a.k.a. polurethane glue. Although not an expert on the subject, I do have an article from "American How To" Magazine (Handyman Club of America), May/June 1997 on this type of glue. The following 6 polyurethane glues, along with the manufacturers and their 800 numbers, were discussed: A. Ambell (Exel) 800-779-3935 B. ChemRex (PL), 800-243-6739 C. Elmer's (Probond), 800-848-9400 D. Franklin International (Titebond), 800-347-4583 E. Gorilla Glue, 800-966-3458 F. Loctite (Wood Wizard), 800-562-8483 I took some notes from the article as follows: 1. You coat only one side of the joint with glue, and, if necessary, spritz the dry side with water. (I found that the moisture content of the wood I tried it on was water enough to activate.) 2. The glue expands as it cures, so parts should be clamped securely so they don't separate as the glue foams. 3. Polyurethane squeeze-out cures to a hard foam that can be removed easily with a chisel or sandpaper. 4. The expansion of the foam will sucessfully bridge most gaps in a joint nicely, but it is not a structural gap filler like epoxy. 5. These glues have a typical "open time" of 20-40 minutes, depending on the brand, materials and environmental conditions. 6. To accelerate curing, mist the mating surface with water before you apply the glue. 7. The glues have no tack (stick) during its open time - like white glues have, for instance. 8. Most consumer-grade polys cure in 24 hours but will vary with temperature and humidity. 9. Don't try to temove the squeeze-out by wiping it off; it'll just spread the mess around. 10. The PL brand was a bit rubbery after cure than the others tested. It was also the only brand that experienced glue-joint failures on the two projects they used the glues on (one was a maple cutting board and the other was gluing up cocobolo blanks to make carver's mallets). The other 5 glues tested were found to perform well, and about equally. 11. Polys accept stain readily, not like the "white" glues. 12. No good solvent for removing uncured glue because polys aren't solvent based. Mineral spirits or rubbing alcohol will do in a pinch. 13. Once cured, polys become stable. They don't continue to creep like white glues, so glue lines don't become more prominant with time. 14. Color and viscosity varies with the brand. Probond was the thinnest (resembled 30W motor oil) ; Titebond was the thickest. 15. Gorilla Glue and Wood Wizard expand the most. 16. Shelf life of polys is somewhat short. Don't buy more than you expect to use in 6 months. With polys, a little glue goes a long way anyway. 17. Polys can cause temporary respiratory problems, particularly for people with asthma. Use goos air exchange. 18. Wear gloves, because polys will stain skin black and is nearly impossible to remove for several days. 19. Out of the bottle, the color of the glues varied from light to dark. After cure, there is far less color difference. 20. European Excel- and Gorilla-brand polyurethane glues arrived here about 5 years ago. Since then domestic brands have cropped up, making polyurethane glues a hotly contested adhesive category. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:19:46 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Polyurethane glues At 12:04 AM 5/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >There have been several postings on "Gorilla" glue a.k.a. polurethane glue.>>> Is this the same stuff Steve Bennett said he used for construction of the wood portions on the KR? Gorilla Glue sounds familiar for some reason. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 00:44:59 -0500 From: Ed Janssen Subject: Re: KR: Polyurethane glues Mike, I may be mistaken, but I don't think Steve used it on a KR. It's familiar to you probably because he did mention it in a posting several months ago as I also recall. Suppose you're aware that, for a few years now, he's been in the business of building air boats for sale and he may have been using polyurethane glue for that purpose since the stuff is supposed to be waterproof. Several years ago (3 or 4?) I saw a demonstration by a T.E.A.M. (Mini-Max) dealer who was building some wing ribs at the North Central EAA "Old Fashioned" Fly-In, Rock Falls, IL (advertisement plug for those who might like to go to a very nice "free" fly-In in the Fall of the year). He said he was trying out some new glue he learned of - which was Gorilla Glue. Never did follow up later to find out if he liked it. Ed At 10:19 PM 5/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:04 AM 5/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >>There have been several postings on "Gorilla" glue a.k.a. polurethane glue.>>> > >Is this the same stuff Steve Bennett said he used for construction of the >wood portions on the KR? Gorilla Glue sounds familiar for some reason. >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 714.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:04:52 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab KR2 616TJ wrote: > > more just might be > better. Like gasoline, I'd be better to have it there and not need it than > not have it and need it. Anyway, Tom said that if he had to do it over again, > he'd make it bigger. > 'Bout right Tom? > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ I agree with both Dana and Jeff here. I do have one question tho. If you need to add trim, does a trim tab of conventional design create more drag than an adjustable horiz. stab does? OK, now that I have your head hurting from thinking too much, I will answer my own question. In my plane, I did it just like the plans said (I know, I know, dont say it). The H. stab. has one piece of thin ply between the spar and the longeron. With my stock KR2, and my slightly heavier than most engine, and somewhat lighter pilot (147'), in hindsight, I should have put the spar on the longeron without the spacer. My H. stab. would have slightly less incidence and require less nose up trim when flying solo. So, what will work for your plane? First you go get a chicken. Then you cut off it's head and swing it around while chanting to the KR Gods. The answer will come to you. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:07:27 EDT From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab In a message dated 98-05-23 20:25:40 EDT, you write: << Sorry Dana, but I'll have to argue this point with you. You can compensate for a horizontal stab with an incorrect incidence with a larger trim tab, but the problem is still the incidence of the tail. I have lots of trim added to the bottom side of my elevator to compensate for the horizontal stab being mounted at an incorrect angle...as per plans. The stock trim tab passed that test with plenty of trim to spare once I added the additional wedges to the bottom of the elevator. I know from talking to others that this has been a fairly common problem, especially if you are flying in the forward part of the CG range. The incidence of the horizontal stab when set per plans does not work well if you are flying in the forward part of the CG range. If it's too late to change the incidence on your tail, then an extra big trim tab is one of your options. Just realize that you are doing it to compensate for an incorrect tail incidence and that it will be creating extra drag. BTW, I turned 100 hours on my KR this morning since the first flight nearly a year ago. :o) Regards, Jeff >> Jeff, I probably didn't say it exactly right before. I agree with your assessment. I should have said it short and sweet that if you built "per plans", are using a heavier engine, or moving it forward to try and stay out of the aft CG problem, thereby riding with a more forward CG, and possibly the throw of a MAC servo (fishing here) is going to be less than a push pull tube arrangement, then you may need that extra trim tab size. I think the "per plans" thing is the forked tailed beast here. Thanks, I was trying to stir some %$%#$ with that one. Congrats on the 100 hrs, there's guy at my home airport who haven't gotten 100 hrs. in a 172 in 10 yrs. What's neat about that is that even if they had, they would only have went about 65%, or so, of the distance you have :-)). Progress report--------Getting ready to throw the master switch today and see what happens.......as long as the toilet in the house doesn't flush, I may have wired this sucker right XX (fingers crossed). If not, I know at least my CD player works thru the intercom, HA-so there. How's that for extra weight!!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:11:41 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: honeycomb sources Here are some sources for honeycomb core sandwich material. It ain't cheap, but it sure is light. Would be great for seatbacks and fuel tanks (assuming it's covered with the right stuff on the inside), but once made into a sandwich, you can't hardly bend it to make curved surfaces. For curves you're better off using foam. Nida-Core Corp., FL 561-287-6464 Hexcel International, CA 1-800-444-3923 Fiber Glast Developements, OH 1-800-821-3283 Divinycell International, TX 1-972-228-7600 Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:01:51 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: East Coast Gathering. At 06:41 PM 5/17/98 EDT, you wrote: > We don't want to compete with the national KR >Gathering, heck I've already called Southwest about tickets. What we would >like to do is get some flying KRs along with some builders and have a >gathering for those who can't go to Perry or people like me, who would go to >both. If it looks like we would hurt the participation in the Perry >Gathering, I don't think we need to do it. >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY > Dana, Count me in! I'll go to both. Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:38:29 -0500 From: "ronald.freiberger" Subject: KR: Trim Tab Drag The trim tab must be pushing the elevator into the position to correct the stabiliser incidence, so there's a bit of drag due to the camber of the pair, and the tab force in counter to the operation, so there's even more drag. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 98 17:24:47 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: KR: Trim Tab Hi All Krnetters Whilst everyone is on this subject, Please !!! can someone tell me how far must the trim tab move up and down. I am busy mounting a R/C servo and need to know how much travel to have. Many Thanks - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com KR 2 ZS-VCM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 98 17:27:37 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: KR: Fw: Trim Tab Resending as i don't know if the first one went through. Sorry!! - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com KR 2 ZS-VCM - ----------------------------Forwarded Message-------------------------------- > Hi All Krnetters > > Whilst everyone is on this subject, Please !!! can someone tell me how far > must > the trim tab move up and down. I am busy mounting a R/C servo and need to > know > how much travel to have. > Many Thanks > -- > Rob Matthews Have a nice day > South Africa > email mathewrz@iafrica.com > KR 2 ZS-VCM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:34:14 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Trim Tab This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------165FAE839565BF609DE8C29B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Rob, What are you using to control your R/C servo? I'm considering using a servo driver box like the kind used to test servos during installation. Kraft Midwest makes one for $25. I was even considering connecting up a PAL to this setup to give wing leveling and pitch leveling. The PAL is $79, two giant servos $35 each, and two servo drivers are $25 each. Not bad for two-axis electric trim and two-axis autopilot. I saw and R/C servo on a TEAM Minimax, he removed the amplifier board and connected a 9V battery directly to the motor, and is using a double pole, double throw switch to reverse the current flow. The 9V battery can't dump a lot of current due to internal resistance, so no resistors are used. He could turn his head around to check the position of the trim tab so no indicator was necessary. No current flows unless he presses the trim switch, so an alkaline 9V battery lasts a long time and can be replaced or backed up from the cockpit. - -Tom Rob Matthews wrote: > Resending as i don't know if the first one went through. > Sorry!! > -- > Rob Matthews Have a nice day > South Africa > email mathewrz@iafrica.com > KR 2 ZS-VCM > ----------------------------Forwarded Message-------------------------------- > > > Hi All Krnetters > > > > Whilst everyone is on this subject, Please !!! can someone tell me how far > > must > > the trim tab move up and down. I am busy mounting a R/C servo and need to > > know > > how much travel to have. > > Many Thanks > > -- > > Rob Matthews Have a nice day > > South Africa > > email mathewrz@iafrica.com > > KR 2 ZS-VCM - --------------165FAE839565BF609DE8C29B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Tom Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Tom n: ;Tom email;internet: tomkr2s@worldnet.att.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------165FAE839565BF609DE8C29B-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:30:29 -0500 From: "Dean R. Collette, MD" Subject: KR: Progress Report Netters, Today was a red letter day in the construction of my KR. The first layup! Woo Hoo! And this was a BIG layup. I can't believe that it went as well as it did. I glassed the aft fuselage from station I to the tail. (Yes, I said fuselage.) About 9 months ago I started redesigning the fuselage, (not that there is anything mechanically wrong with the current design, it has proven itself time and again,) but I wanted to widened it and stretched it. After a lot of thought and a huge amount of research I then decided to design a composite fuse. My thought here is two part - First, it would allow me to build redundancy into the structure of the fuse (I'll explain below) and it also allows me to round the bottom corners - more aesthetically pleasing to me. Later on, when I read everything that Mark Lougheed had written on the "banana boat syndrome" I also realized that I could eliminate this as well. I had both designs done and was still waffling between which one to build (go with the proven design or try to build my own design.) I talked with a friend of mine from college (engineer) who pointed out that if a person builds the fuse as per the plans (builds the sides, skins them, and then bends them into shape) the fuse is stressed. The natural tendency of this structure is to try to spring apart. If the sides of the fuse are skinned after the stick structure is complete this greatly reduces this stress, but not entirely - now there are opposing forces - one trying to spring the fuse apart and the other trying to hold it in position. This is what finally convinced me to build my own design. The first thing that I did was bend the top longerons into position and glue the doublers in place (the fuse is built upside down.) Then I constructed "U" shaped stations that are laminated. These are attached upright at all of the vertical member locations along the top longerons. These were actually very easy to steam and build thanks to a sliding jig that I made. Bracing was added and then everything gussetted. 3/4" urethane foam was added between all of these stations, sanded to contour and now glassed. The redundancy part is that the wood structure of the fuse is strong enough to handle all of the loads that would be normally encountered in flight. When my inspector checked my work he said he thought that if I wanted to cover it with cloth I could get away with that (ahh, No!) The fiberglass reinforces the wood structure (holding everything together) and also serves provide a means for dispersment of mechanical forces along the entire fuse (more efficiently than the plywood.) My rough numbers show that I will probably increase the weight of the fuse by a few pounds (depending on how liberal with the epoxy I am). but for this I will dramatically increase the strength. I am planning on a bigger than usual engine, something Continental or Lycoming, so I should have enough horses for the few pounds that I add. As of now the aft fuse is glassed, the firewall and the first 2 upright members are in. I am stuck at this point because I am waiting for the dimensions and incidence of the new airfoil. I am actually amazed at how well things are working out. I thought early on that by designing something totally different I would forget about a bunch of little things that would plague me throughout the construction. So far, that's not the case at all, but I've got a long way to go. I am currently negotiating with my ISP for space for web site. If I can work this out I will post pictures, drawings etc. One thing that I found with the Urethane Glue. If it gets too thick in any area sanding becomes VERY difficult. The glue forms these little "balls" that roll under the sanding block and gouge the foam. I had to replace one of the foam panels due to these little critters. Make sure the stuff stays thin and you won't have this problem. Dean mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:24:16 EDT From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab In a message dated 98-05-24 13:22:38 EDT, you write: << Whilst everyone is on this subject, Please !!! can someone tell me how far must the trim tab move up and down. I am busy mounting a R/C servo and need to know how much travel to have. Many Thanks -- Rob Matthews >> Rob, if your servo has 1 in. of travel, you should be fine. Mine has 3/4 in. and I'll just attach the push rod very near the base of the control horn. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:01:24 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Ground School Dean, I have purchased the KING instrument course, and if you send in your practice tests to them, they will send you the appropriate endorsement. This works for the Private pilot exam as well. - -- Regards Ross Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: > Netters, > > A friend of mine asked me a question that I can't find the answer to. I hope > someone here can. > He wants to learn to fly, but the cost is a major factor. He said he read > somewhere that a "home study course" such as the King tapes or any of the > other "packaged" flight training courses are sufficient for the FAA, as long > as you pass the exam. I'm not so sure about this. It seems to me that I > needed a signature before I could take the Test. > > I understand why he's asking - The ground school at the local airport is in > the $1000.00 range for books and the instructor's time and that doesn't buy > an hour in the air. The King tapes are something like $169.00. > > If anyone knows more about this I love to hear it. > > Thanks > Dean > mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:07:07 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Great Plains Long Block Kit Marcel, I built a Great Planes 1835cc long block, my only problem was initially some missing parts. Be sure to check the parts you recieve against the catalog. I did not get a part's list with the kit, and was missing a few items. Calls to Steve got this streightned out, but I was still short a dipstick, and oil drain cover, which I didn't discover until a few months later. I had an extra dipstick, but had to purchase an oil drain cover locally, I suppose I could have called Steve again, but it was only $4.00. At any rate, inventory everything as soon as you get it, and you will be OK. The kit went together with no problems, however I did have to shop around locally for some deck height shims of the correct size, and some end play shims. Steve will sell these to you as well, but it was faster for me to get them locally. - -- Regards Ross Driessen, Marcel wrote: > Hello KRNetters, > > I'm thinking of buying a Great Plains Type 1 2180 cc Long Block Kit. > I would appreciate if anybody who already assembled a GP Long Block Kit > could share some experiences ? > (For example: Total assembly time , Required skills, Quality of the > Parts) > > Thanks, > > Marcel Driessen > KR2S-Builder (boat on wheels, seats installed, starting with turtledeck > construction) > Meerlo, Limburg, The Netherlands > e-mail: driessen@krohne.mhs.compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:34:57 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: new subscriptions Well, Just to let everyone know, I try to check the authentication emails weekly, but I have been out of town over the last week, and I had 650 emails to sift through. If you are not getting KRNET email at the place you want it by Monday. Send another email requset to me at mailto:rossy@teleport.com AND mailto:krnet@krnet.org. This is the equivilent to shouting at me to get it done. Only unsubscriptions are fully automated, although I occasionally get requests via majordomo for theses too. I have to approve all subscription requests manually, lately, I have had many distractions, and haven't had as much time surfing the web or sanding my wings as I would have liked. -- Regards Ross Richard Parker wrote: > I have been unsuccessfully been trying to sub*cribe to the KR-net through > Hotmail so I can check it while I'm on the road, I get my authorization but > then I never get the threads. > > Anyone having similar problems. > > Rich Parker > Jaffrey, NH > theparkers@monad.net > richontheroad@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:51:38 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Spuce Trent, Well, if you order your spruce from the lumber yard, there is no guarentee that it will be "Aircraft" quality. There is a government standard on this dating back to WWII. It deals with the grain slope and size of knots etc. Aircraft Spruce and Wicks are generally expected to be shipping aircraft grade, and most likely have somone on staff familiar with the standard. If you buy the wood from a local source, get a local EAA technical counselor (familiar with wood aircraft ) to come with you and assist in selecting the wood, or at least see if you can become familiar with the standard to make the selection yourself. There are several books available on the topic, but I don't have them handy to post. - -- Ross Trent Flemming wrote: > Hi Group, > > I have recieved my plans for the KR-2S (no thanks to UPS). I checked my > local lumber yards (McCoys and Lowes) and they say that they can order the > Spruce that I need. Is there any difference in the quailty or otherwise of > the Spruce between the lumber yards and AS&S. I haven't recieved a price of > the Spruce from the lumber yard yet. May not be worthwhile at all if the > lumber yards price is to high. > > Thanks > > Trent > > mailto:tflemming@texramp.net ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #85 ****************************