From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 6:42 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #95 krnet-l-digest Monday, June 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 095 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:58:56 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: unpublished coordinates At 05:32 PM 6/13/98 -0500, you wrote: Anybody with a name like that has to be trustworthy, right? > >Mark Langford, Well the French need a new airfoil to play with too! :o) (aabbcc01@infonie.fr) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:20:15 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: AS5046 airfoil After thinking about this for a little while (and preparing to start on my outer wings), I came up with the folloinwg brilliant observation. Although I forced the AS5046 airfoil to fit my almost (dimensionally) stock spars, I wouldn't recommend anybody else do that, mainly because the airfoil has to be slid rearward on the spars due to being "fat" in different places. There are also other issues (center of lift, for example) that need to be optimized. I beefed up my aft spar from the beginning, as well as made it taller, expecting higher loads due to my larger flaps and more powerful ailerons. The reality of all of this is that waiting for the 18% version, and the spar versatility that it affords, might be the way to go. At the very least, the spars need to be rethought and probably repositioned to make the AS5046 work properly. All of this remains to be seen... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:55:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: unpublished coordinates On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Mark Langford wrote: > I guess I somehow missed that these were supposed to be unpublished, not > that I doubt it for a second, of course. Sorry about that. I guess we know > I can't keep a secret now. And it would be nice to see Troy fly it and > survive the experience before too many of us go down that road. Ashok's concerns about not publishing the coordinates were for the early preliminary airfoils not the AS5045 which has now been wind tunnel tested and looks good. My post about not publishing the coordinates was just a conservative thing. No harm, no foul. I would like to hold up publishing the coordinates for the 18% airfoil as Dr. Selig and Ashok are not finished evaluating the wind tunnel data. Heck, we already have two airplanes being built with the AS5046 airfoil, seems pretty public to me. With a name like that it sounds like he needs to be in the Skunk Works :-) Steve - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:12:38 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: unpublished coordinates If these are being made public, is the thought of charging a small fee for the templates to recoup the costs incurred beyond contributions no longer being considered? Ron Lee At 05:32 PM 6/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I guess I somehow missed that these were supposed to be unpublished, not >that I doubt it for a second, of course. Sorry about that. I guess we know >I can't keep a secret now. And it would be nice to see Troy fly it and >survive the experience before too many of us go down that road. > >If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure they're in good hands, since we >know that aabbcc01 has them now. Anybody with a name like that has to be >trustworthy, right? > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 00:12:38 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: unpublished coordinates If these are being made public, is the thought of charging a small fee for the templates to recoup the costs incurred beyond contributions no longer being considered? Ron Lee At 05:32 PM 6/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I guess I somehow missed that these were supposed to be unpublished, not >that I doubt it for a second, of course. Sorry about that. I guess we know >I can't keep a secret now. And it would be nice to see Troy fly it and >survive the experience before too many of us go down that road. > >If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure they're in good hands, since we >know that aabbcc01 has them now. Anybody with a name like that has to be >trustworthy, right? > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:41:16 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: RE: KR: unpublished coordinates Ron Lee wrote: > If these are being made public, is the thought of charging a small fee > for the templates to recoup the costs incurred beyond contributions > no longer being considered? Ron, The fee for templates is actually for paper plots that can be spray glued to plywood to make the wing templates that are used for sanding the foam. I've always figured the coordinates would end up on the UUIC web page (in fact, I thought they were already there). I'd say it's a far cry from handing somebody the coordinates to handing somebody correctly sized and accurately bspline fitted airfoil plots with level lines, chord lines, and spars drawin in. That's still the plan. When we get the nod on the incidence and spar locations, etc, (and maybe see Troy's plane fly), we'll be sending out the templates to contributors, and to future contributors to the cause as well. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:58:34 +0200 From: aabbcc01@infonie.fr Subject: KR: unpublished coordinates Mark , I'm sorry but now i can't giveback this coordinates but don't worry i don't use this already(and i will not publish this data because nobody in my aera are interrested to the buildind of kr2s) I prefer to wait the flying test if ever you like to tell me the result . and about the remark from Michael Mims i think it's groundless because i'm not a spy it's not existence in homebuilding but... sorry again and i hope you will accept to answer to my next request always with a smile the french builder ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:38:45 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress Netheads, I spent the morning doing a little touch-up sanding on the belly of the airplane and the bottom of my highly "publicized airfoil". Then I applied SuperFil to a couple places that needed just a little more filler. For the most part the outer wings and the horizontal stab were looking as good as they were gona get (at least in my hanger) so I opened up the can of Smooth Prime and started stirring. I mixed up a 16 oz batch (you have to add cross linker) and started painting. This stuff is fantastic for filling pin holes and glass weave. I applied two coats to most of the belly and wings and was able to hit one corner with some sand paper to check how it sands and the results were very nice. So far everything I have tried with the Poly Fiber system is great and I highly recommend it. I don't plan on using the UV barrier on the bottom of the airplane so I could spray some color on it next week if I can get Brad to give me a hand. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:23:18 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: elevator hinges Sorry to resurrect a twice dead horse. I have a set of rudder and elevator hinges that I bought from RR. They are made of extruded Al that has sharp corners. I had mentioned this to Mike Mims and he even posted it on the net but that did not evoke any response. I need to make a decision to have a new set made with the proper material or use the one I have. Any suggestions? Thanks Haris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:09:42 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: elevator hinges Haris wrote: > I need to make a decision to have a new set made with the proper > material or > use the one I have. Any suggestions? At the risk of being labeled an "answer hog", I'll throw in my little opinion. Like Mike said, there are lots of 'em flying already. And I think the loads back there are pretty small (witness how little force it takes to enter the realm of PIOs) so I wouldn't worry about a catastrophic failure there (it's never happened anyway). I've seen aileron hinges made out of .060" material. You might consider wear though, as most of the elevators I've felt had substantial slop. Here again (bring me another horse, Carlos) O*ilite bushings would help matters in the wear department, as would five hinges rather than three. But I have to admit, even the sloppy elevator KR's probably fly just fine... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:22:54 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: fuel tank vent lines What size vent line are people using? My system is plumbed with 3/8s line but that seems a little big for a vent. I need to install a vent in each wing tank and one for the header thank and was thinking 1/4 inch would be fine. Thoughts? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:15:07 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: fuel tank vent lines Mike I used the 3/8 size in mine, and by the way be sure to install a check valve if your header tank vent is on top (infront of the windshield). I forgot to do that on mine and the first time I stalled the bird fuel sprayed out the vent all over the canopy. This wasn't so bad but I also had cabin vents on the sides of the canopy rail which sucked alot of gas fumes directly inside the cockpit. I sure was glad I was not a smoker. I have since relocated my cabin vents and installed a check valve in the vent tube. I think that the actual size of the vent line depends on the total fuel flow at max power but since air is much less dense than fuel 1/4 inch should be sufficient. Hope it helps Parley N54PB On 13 Jun 98 at 20:22, Micheal Mims wrote: What size vent line are people using? My system is plumbed with 3/8s line but that seems a little big for a vent. I need to install a vent in each wing tank and one for the header thank and was thinking 1/4 inch would be fine. Thoughts? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 08:54:30 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Stub Wing Fuel Tank Capacity Mike, Have you filled your stub wing tanks yet to determine their capacity? Did you install any drain cock on the bottom of the tanks? Any way to drain water? Where was your vent line run from/to? I'm thinking of aluminum fuel tanks mounted in my stub wings as my primary tanks, (no header tank), and of course a facet pump in the main fuel line. I don't like the idea of all that fuel in the cockpit with me, plus I could gain the storage space up front. Oh Yea... - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:10:05 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: fuel tank vent lines In a message dated 98-06-13 23:23:07 EDT, you write: << I need to install a vent in each wing tank and one for the header thank and was thinking 1/4 inch would be fine. Thoughts? >> Sorry Mike, I'm answering your question with a question. Along the same line here guys. I need to pressurize my header tank but do not want to install the bent tube out the top of the forward deck. What type of check valve are we talking about? Will a simple free flow one-way check valve installed inline, outside the tank work? I want the port to be under a wing stub and don't want it to turn into one of those big drippers on spam cans. Progress here lately......Filled the header tank up with water yesterday, no leaks as of this morning. Will be sqeeshing the tank into the top (forward deck) as soon as I figure out what to do with the vent line. I ended up glassing some reinforcement into the bottom of the tank and attaching the fuel pump directly to the bottom outside of the tank, then all I have to do is ground the fuel pump body to either my firewall or my ground bus inside and behind the panel. Built the Mike Mims (TM) roll-o-matic yesterday, I think I'll try flipping the Explorer today as a test :-)). More wiring, man what an octupus!!!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 08:34:17 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: fuel tank vent lines A local A&P suggested pressurizing the header tank using a small bicycle pump or some other method. His thinking is just because we've been doing things the same way for 50 years, doesn't mean we have to keep doing it that way. He is also a proponent of automotive engines for aircraft use, but indicates not to exceed 1HP per cubic inch displacement or reliability will suffer. Is this relevant? At any rate, to answer the heading topic, I used 1/4" fuel tank vent lines. - -- Ross KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-06-13 23:23:07 EDT, you write: > > << I need to install a vent in each > wing tank and one for the header thank and was thinking 1/4 inch would be > fine. Thoughts? >> > Sorry Mike, I'm answering your question with a question. > Along the same line here guys. I need to pressurize my header tank but do not > want to install the bent tube out the top of the forward deck. What type of > check valve are we talking about? Will a simple free flow one-way check valve > installed inline, outside the tank work? I want the port to be under a wing > stub and don't want it to turn into one of those big drippers on spam cans. > > Progress here lately......Filled the header tank up with water yesterday, no > leaks as of this morning. Will be sqeeshing the tank into the top (forward > deck) as soon as I figure out what to do with the vent line. I ended up > glassing some reinforcement into the bottom of the tank and attaching the fuel > pump directly to the bottom outside of the tank, then all I have to do is > ground the fuel pump body to either my firewall or my ground bus inside and > behind the panel. > Built the Mike Mims (TM) roll-o-matic yesterday, I think I'll try flipping the > Explorer today as a test :-)). > More wiring, man what an octupus!!!! > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:09:29 From: Flesner Subject: KR: fuel pump mounting > >Progress here lately......Filled the header tank up with water yesterday, no >leaks as of this morning. .................snip....................... Dana, Gas will leak through holes that water won't!!! Check again carefully when you fill it with fuel. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, >glassing some reinforcement into the bottom of the tank and attaching the fuel >pump directly to the bottom outside of the tank, then all I have to do is >ground the fuel pump body to either my firewall or my ground bus inside and >behind the panel. >Dana Overall ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Make sure you have plenty of structor there to handle the stresses or it will be a good source for a crack and leak !!!!!!!!!!!!! Tony Bingalis had some concerns about even putting the shutoff valve on the bottom of the tank. Also, that seems like you are placing the (possible) igniter very close to the fuel. I know, they do it in auto's all the time(pump in the tank) but I don't even like the fuel in the cockpit, let alone hang an electrical device on the tank!!! We each have to go with what we are comfortable with. I eliminated the header tank completely and went with wing tanks and two fuel pumps, a completely separate backup battery, switches , and breakers for the pumps. Overkill? who knows...(the battery is a small 3 pound motorcycle battery that I placed on the firewall and is the cutest little thing!! Just my humble opinion.............. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:15:55 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: fuel tank vent lines Micheal Mims wrote: > > What size vent line are people using? My system is plumbed with 3/8s line I used the 3/8 ths, just because it was the same size. One order, use cutoff pieces, etc. 1/4 should work fine. I think that if you route the vent lines correctly, you don't need a check valve. Refer to Tony B.'s books for the pictures. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:57:31 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Fuel Tank Capacity Tom Andersen wrote: > > Mike, > Have you filled your stub wing tanks yet to determine their capacity? > Did you install any drain cock on the bottom of the tanks? Any way to drain > water? > Where was your vent line run from/to? > I'm thinking of aluminum fuel tanks mounted in my stub wings as my primary > tanks, (no header tank), and of course a facet pump in the main fuel line. I > don't like the idea of all that fuel in the cockpit with me, plus I could gain > the storage space up front. Oh Yea... > -Tom Hi Gang, Ohhh, for sure you need those drain cocks!!!!!!!!!!! - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:51:11 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: fuel tank vent lines > Progress here lately......Filled the header tank up with water yesterday, no > leaks as of this morning. Will be sqeeshing the tank into the top (forward > deck) as soon as I figure out what to do with the vent line. I ended up > glassing some reinforcement into the bottom of the tank and attaching the fuel > pump directly to the bottom outside of the tank, then all I have to do is > ground the fuel pump body to either my firewall or my ground bus inside and > behind the panel. > Built the Mike Mims (TM) roll-o-matic yesterday, I think I'll try flipping the > Explorer today as a test :-)). > More wiring, man what an octupus!!!! > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ Hi Dana, Just as a suggestion - rather than filling your fuel tank with water which in my opinion is not the best way because bubbles can be created in the very spot that can leak. Try this - place a balloon on one of your outlets and plug other outlets you may have in the tank and get youself a little shutoff valve that is used in a lab(there are many) that are positive shutoff(little brass thingys) for about 3 bucks and place it inline and blow up the balloon and leave it overnight. If the balloon is the same size the next morning. "Great no leaks" and no water to drain and tank to dry. Good Luck! - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:24:07 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: fuel pump mounting Larry, What is the capacity of your wing tanks? Are they in your stub wings or in your outer wing panels? - -Tom Flesner wrote: > > > >Progress here lately......Filled the header tank up with water yesterday, no > >leaks as of this morning. > .................snip....................... > > Dana, > Gas will leak through holes that water won't!!! Check again carefully > when you fill it with fuel. > > ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, > > >glassing some reinforcement into the bottom of the tank and attaching the > fuel > >pump directly to the bottom outside of the tank, then all I have to do is > >ground the fuel pump body to either my firewall or my ground bus inside and > >behind the panel. > > >Dana Overall > ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, > > Make sure you have plenty of structor there to handle the stresses > or it will be a good source for a crack and leak !!!!!!!!!!!!! Tony > Bingalis had some concerns about even putting the shutoff valve > on the bottom of the tank. Also, that seems like you are placing > the (possible) igniter very close to the fuel. I know, they do it in > auto's all the time(pump in the tank) but I don't even like the fuel > in the cockpit, let alone hang an electrical device on the tank!!! > We each have to go with what we are comfortable with. I eliminated > the header tank completely and went with wing tanks and two > fuel pumps, a completely separate backup battery, switches > , and breakers for the pumps. Overkill? who knows...(the battery > is a small 3 pound motorcycle battery that I placed on the firewall > and is the cutest little thing!! > > Just my humble opinion.............. > > Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:59:30 -0700 From: "Gary Lee" Subject: KR: Re: Alt. Noise. GONE! Where did you hook the filter up to? - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Crawford To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 3:09 AM Subject: KR: Alt. Noise. GONE! >Just a quick note to let you know I finally got rid of the alternator >noise. I found a filter at Rodeo Snack that worked. It's a "heavy duty >automotive electrical noise filter". Cat. #270-055. $19.95 plus tax. > >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL >N262TC > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:22:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: wing tank capacity TankHeads, I just whipped up a fuel tank (on CAD, it's at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/48tank.gif) made from an RAF48 wing with half inch thick top and bottom skins, and quarter inch front and back panels which yielded an area of 108 square inches. Assuming you're down to 100 square inches after adding baffles, fillers, sending units, and expansion space at the top, that means you get a gallon for every 2.3 inches of tank span (1 gallon=231 cubic inches). So if each of your tanks is 23 inches long (which is just about right) you've got yourself a 20 gallon capacity counting both sides. Of course, that leaves no room for aileron cables, unless you flox a fiberglass tube in place for them to run thru. I offset the front of my tank by making a triangular section for them to run thru, and it didn't cost me much in total capacity. Mine are expected to hold about 19 gallons, but I used the different airfoil (fatter), and only used 18" of my wing span (improper prior planning!) thinking I'd need four inches between my inner rib and the fuselage to operate the sanding board (dumb!). Just trying to keep others from screwing up like I did... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 07:15:38 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: elevator hinges Haris I mentioned previously that Van's recalled such material when they supplied it to their builders. I just purchased a partially completed project KR2 with the RR supplied hinges. It appears to have the same hinge kit you have described. Good enough for RR -> good enough for everyone else? I don't plan on discarding these parts. I built the hinges for my KR2S project and found out about the non-radiused material after the fact. I built 4 hinges for the elevator and 3 for the rudder using the bearing material AS&S describes as oilite. The extra hinges cost me about 40 grams plus the attaching AN hardware. I figure this is good enough for me... John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: HAshraf@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: elevator hinges > Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 7:23 PM > > Sorry to resurrect a twice dead horse. I have a set of rudder and elevator > hinges that I bought from RR. They are made of extruded Al that has sharp > corners. I had mentioned this to Mike Mims and he even posted it on the net > but that did not evoke any response. > > I need to make a decision to have a new set made with the proper material or > use the one I have. Any suggestions? > > Thanks > > Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:20:53 +0200 From: aabbcc01@infonie.fr Subject: KR: new airfoil hi I started to build my fuselage and spars but i brake my project now and wait for the "official" new design of kr2s. E.DEWET CALAIS (pas-de-calais) North Cost of France FRANCE I hope i'm not with a name like it sounds like i need to be in the "Skunk Works" now.(with smile) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:32:48 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Stub Wing Fuel Tank Capacity At 08:54 AM 6/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Mike, >Have you filled your stub wing tanks yet to determine their capacity? No I have only done the math and the numbers come out to about 6.6 gallons each. >Did you install any drain cock on the bottom of the tanks? Any way to drain water? Yes there is a standard Cessna style drain in each tank >Where was your vent line run from/to? The vents for the stub tanks run right out the bottom of the tank. I have a total of three vents, one for each tank. >I'm thinking of aluminum fuel tanks mounted in my stub wings as my primary tanks, (no header tank), and of course a facet pump in the main fuel line. I don't like the idea of all that fuel in the cockpit with me, plus I could gain the storage space up front. Oh Yea... >-Tom > I can understand why one wouldn't want the fuel in the cockpit with them but I decided its not that big a deal. Seems that 80% of the homebuilt fleet have the tanks inside or close to the cockpit. I would rather have a gravity feed fuel system instead of relying on a fuel pump. Its just my opinion but there is a much bigger chance of a fuel pump failing than the fuel tank bursting. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:17:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: fuel tank vent lines At 12:15 PM 6/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >I think that if you route the vent lines correctly, you don't need a >check valve. Refer to Tony B.'s books for the pictures. > >-- >Don Reid Don,.. I think your right. I used Tony's book and the plans from a Dragonfly and a LongEZ to design my fuel tank plumbing. Its really a pretty simple system, I have a header tank which is the main tank that has a feed line, a single vent that is routed to the belly and a stand pipe that is mounted about 1/2 inch below the vent. The two stub tanks join in the fuselage just ahead of the main spar with a T and then to a facet pump that will pump fuel from the stub tanks up to the stand pipe in the main tank. Each stub tank is vented straight out the bottom of the tank and that's about it. There is no selector valve only one shut off valve from the main tank feed to the engine. And no need for any check valves as the stand pipe is high enough on the main tank that very little if any fuel will drain back into the stub tanks. You guys who are considering building your main tanks in the outer wings may want to get with someone who has done it before you make that final decision. There is a KR built just as Larry described at my airport (no header and main tanks in the wings) and the guy doesn't like it at all! He has to pay real close attention to fuel management or the airplane becomes severely wing heavy as the fuel burns from one tank. In fact he dislikes it so much he is thinking of ripping it all out and installing a header thank. He too has the back up battery and fuel pump and his little 1835cc VW powered retract KR2 weighs over 700 pounds empty! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:41:54 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: N541RY Progress report. Well I filled the tank with 2.5 gallons of fuel today, and 1.0 gallons leaked into the cockpit. DOH! Check all the fuel connections before filling... and fill part way after this. DOH! I was able to drain most of it back into the fuel container from the gascolator, but geez. At any rate, I didn't play start the engine today. But I did get the antenna wiring routed, and plugged my radios into the stack. Recieve is OK but I seem to have a problem with the PTT wiring. I don't have the PTT switch installed so I just grounded the PTT line to transmit, but the transmit mode stayed on "stuck mike" mode, until I unpluged the headset MIC plug. So more investigation. Also, I wasn't able to raise anyone on the radio, although I could pick up AWOS and the local traffic in the pattern. So... some minor progress, a major "DOH", but it beat sanding the wings... - -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:26:35 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: KR: wing tank differential loads / Misc Info >You guys who are considering building your main tanks in the outer wings may >want to get with someone who has done it before you make that final >decision. There is a KR built just as Larry described at my airport (no >header and main tanks in the wings) and the guy doesn't like it at all! He >has to pay real close attention to fuel management or the airplane becomes >severely wing heavy as the fuel burns from one tank. In fact he dislikes it >so much he is thinking of ripping it all out and installing a header thank. >He too has the back up battery and fuel pump and his little 1835cc VW >powered retract KR2 weighs over 700 pounds empty! >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims for informational purposes: I built my -2S with 7 gallons in either outboard wing and 9 1/2 gallons in the header tank. I can run about 3 gallons differential between the wing tanks before the plane starts to get a little wing heavy. With a full 7 gallon differential between the wing tanks, the plane is very wing heavy, but can be safely flown and landed. It just requires a fair amount of aileron. This was tested during the flight testing regimen last year. BTW, happy birthday to my plane. June 10 last year was the first flight. Today I did a demo ride in it for another prospective KR builder, followed by my biennial flight review. The plane now has 106 hours on it. For those that are building or wanting to build and not flying yet.....It's still a blast! Also just for comparison reasons, the CFI I was working with today has also spent some time in an O-290 powered Lancair 235. She says the Lancair has the more sensative elevator and that in her opinion, the KR was easier to fly although she did chase it around a bit prior to some KR orientation training. :o) I did let a number of kids fly the plane while doing Young Eagles flights last weekend and found that they usually handled the plane better than pilots that are used to grabbing onto a ham fisted air tank. :o) Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:40:41 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: elevator hinges Mark and John, Thanks for the input. I'll call around next week to look se whether a local metal place has the right material. If I am sucessful I'll go ahead and have some made. If not we are all in same 'boat'. That RV reference is quite sobering though. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:16:19 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: fuel pump mounting In a message dated 98-06-14 12:14:31 EDT, you write: << Gas will leak through holes that water won't!!! >> Yeah, I know but after doing the vinyl ester resin shuffle :-)) I just wanted to see if all that frantic work paid off. Adrian, I can't pressurize it yet as I don't have the forward deck mounted to the top of the tank yet but plan on doing what you mentioned. By the time I do plug everything up any bubbles will be gone. Plus I've still got all my plumbing to put into it and I didn't want to contaminate it with gas. You guys considering alum. tanks, check out Langford's page on fuel tank construction. It's really a pretty simple system and you end up with enough vinyl ester that I don't think it "can" leak. I know, I know, if there's a will there's a way, but I'm feeling pretty confident about this one. Heading over to a buddy's house now to pick up Tony B's book so I can get some idea how to route the pressure tube. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:22:48 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Web Pages. Anybody thinking about starting a web page, geocities now offers 11 meg for free. Hair tonic, Ms. Gorman's "Feel Good" magical potion for sale, other amazing products.........inquire within :-)) Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:02:41 EDT From: Kr2dream@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: highway landing If you are using automotive type CHT gauges the trouble could very well be in the gauge. As an example, VDO CHT gauges are single-point calibration according to the VDO internal engineering spec and are not even spec'd for the right thermocouple data. As a result they can be 20% off at the scale ends. Checking as recommended is an excellent idea. Bob Lasecki Chicago - building slowly now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:01:11 -0500 From: Ed Janssen Subject: KR: RV-8 Accident Just curious - other than from the AVWeb, I haven't seen much discussion on the RV-8 prototype accident as yet. Anyone see an RV website where they're talking about it? Maybe we can all learn something. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:48:23 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Re: Alt. Noise. GONE! Gary Lee wrote: > > Where did you hook the filter up to? > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Crawford > a quick note to let you know I finally got rid of the alternator > >noise. I found a filter at Rodeo Snack that worked. It's a "heavy duty > >automotive electrical noise filter". Cat. #270-055. $19.95 plus tax. > > > >Tom Crawford > >tomc@afn.org > >Gainesville, FL > >N262TC > > I wired it in series with the hot wire going into the main bus. There was some discussion about fusing it, but it is rated at 20 amps, and even if it did quit working in such a way that would not let power thru, there is nothing on the panel that I absolutely have to have to fly the plane. I always carry a handheld VHF, generally dont fly at night, and dont need the fuel pump except on start up. The engine gauges and electric trim would still work, and the alternator would still charge the battery. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:41:08 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Skunk Works (no archive) French KR builder wrote: > >I hope i'm not with a name like it sounds like i need to be in the "Skunk >Works" now.(with smile) ...and I think perhaps our friend doesn't realize that "skunk works" is not a bad place where we send someone who we feel doesn't belong. The "Skunk Works" is the name given to the place where top-secret military projects were developed, and by extension, to the place where KR builders develop secret projects and forbidden mods to the Rand-Robinson design. ;o) Not that any such place really exists, of course. Nor that I know where such a place would ever be, or how to get to it with your browser. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:42:32 EDT From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: RV-8 Accident In a message dated 6/15/98 7:05:08 AM, you wrote: <> It was a flight with two pilots on board. The Van's employed factory pilot was taking a prospective customer for a cross country flight. Van was notified immediately after the accident and he arrived shortly after the NTSB showed up. A portion of the wing was found appx. 1/4 mi. from the crash site. Engine was running upon impact. Two fatalities. Witnesses mentioned they "heard a loud bang or pop just after they saw a portion of the wing separate from the aircraft". Preliminary evidence indicates that the prototype suffered an in- flight structural failure (evidence is pointing to the spar). The wing of the RV-8 has been tested to failure with yield occurring somewhere around 10 G? Other than that, most of what you're going to hear among the RV crowd is speculation. There are many RV-8s currently under construction and Van is working to determine if there is a design flaw that needs to be rectified before many of these get in the air. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #95 ****************************