From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 3:16 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #98 krnet-l-digest Thursday, June 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 098 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:20:01 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: hstab leading edge Bob Smith wrote: > I believe that Roy Marsh put a wooden dowel leading edge on the horiz > stab in his 2S. Does anyone think this or any kind of leading edge > reinforcement is needed? I must confess that I did that with my first h/s, except that I used a piece of "half round" moulding from Home Depot (half the weight of a dowel, you know) whose diameter matched the airfoil that I was using (half inch). But a layer or two of glass made from a piece of 2" 9 oz tape would be a lot lighter. Again though, this may be one of those areas in which we overbuild for no apparent reason... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:08:33 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretching In a message dated 98-06-17 01:51:02 EDT, you write: << for a 20 amp generator off a C-85 or C-90. The recipient of your alternator would probably be happy to make a trade. Ok, that's probably more than you wantd to hear. :o) >> Thanks for all the info. Its very helpful. You did 105# pilot minumum?. I would never want to hear less of useful info. Thanks again haris ashraf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:13:01 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretching In a message dated 98-06-17 09:22:43 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: KR: KR2S stretching Date: 98-06-17 09:22:43 EDT From: richontheroad@hotmail.com (Richard Parker) Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Reply-to: krnet-l@teleport.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com I think at this stage of the game I would plan on you changing your mind a few times. The more I've learned, the more my initial plan has changed. I would make it as long as your longerons are. 16'6 inches means 2 scarf joints. Plan your plywood accordingly. The boat seems to be the easy part. After the boat some people get overwhelmed.I think thats why you often see them for sale. This list is great for details but a lot of people tend to get tied up in them long before they need to.(I'm fighting that now) I feel theres plenty of people on this list who get a little bit ahead of themselves. Its easy for people to argue the merits of what color spark plug wires to use while in reality they are just starting to glue up there longerons. >> Thanks for the reply. My Longerons are 14 feet long. Thah would make my plane about 20 feet. Then I will worry too much about long length etc. I can still have one scarf joint per side (I think). I bought three pieces of 2'X8' plywood and it should be enough if I have parallel scarfs. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:14:31 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage In a message dated 98-06-17 11:31:14 EDT, you write: << My thoughts were that a scarf joint is as strong as no joint (continuous piece of plywood) so where they are is irrelevant. You may have noticed they all fall in the same place in my fuselage. But in thinking like you I staggered the ones on the spars. >> Has any one actually proved this point by actual experiment.? If not I would do it. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:07:46 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Weights Netheads, as you know Brian Bland setup a web site that has the weights of some of our projects at various states of completion. As you can see we could use more input for this page. Break out those scales and let us know how much your parts weigh! Go to: http://a51.wetworks.org/Weights.html to see what we have so far. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:32:01 From: Flesner Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretching Hello Heris, You didn't say if you were starting with the standard KR or the S version. My boat is built to standard KR measurements forward of the spar and a 24 inch stretch aft of the spar. It has standard tail surfaces with a balanced elevator. I also have a 6 inch matco tailwheel. I am using the HAPI mount on 1 inch spacers. I used 3/4 inch spruce on the firewall engine mount with an extra 1/4 inch of ply on the bottom side of the top shelf. I added the ply to mount my rudder pedals with toe brakes. I would have used one 6 inch piece of ply had I known sooner. I'm not worried about the HAPI mount being narrower the way Martin and Steve fly their planes!!! I do not have a header tank, no vacuum pump, battery is just behind the firewall, and a 5 inch prop extention on the 0-200. I have no paint on the bird yet and the canopy is not in place although I weighted it with as much of the material in place as possible. My C.G. is still ahead of the forward limit and math says it will fall right into place with pilot and fuel. I also have a 9 x 30 inch speed brake mounted just below the rear spar with a Cessna flap motor mounted about 8 inches behind that. I'm using a B&C 14 amp alternator. That basiclly is my setup. Having said all that, I'm not going to recommend which way to go. Compare this to your ideas and see what you think. Some things to think about: The longer you stretch the fuselage, the flatter your three point attitude will be on the ground. Jeff and I both have the 30 inch Diehl gear and they look about right. Standard is 24 inches. If Dan will sell you the 30 inch legs (I've heard he's not wild about selling any more 30 inchers) I'd recommend adding about1/8 to maybe not quite 1/4 inch of extra glass to take some of the bow out of the legs. Jeff has over 100 hours on his with no extra glass that I'm aware of with no problems. I added about 1/8 inch of glass to mine and they look better but I'm not sure how they will land yet. You might want to check an aircraft salvage yard to find some Yankee or Traveler gear. It is the same material only 1 inch thick and wider. I don't know about the length. With the 0-200 and and a 24 inch stretch, I think a 28 to 30 inch Diehl type gear is about right. Better prop clearence and a better three point attitude on the ground. Jeff will have to tell us how the gear does in takeoff and landing as my KR hasn't flown yet. Yo, Jeff...... One more point. You can balance a nose heavy aircraft with a lot less weight in the tail than trying to balance a tail heavy aircraft with weight up front. If it's too far out tail heavy, you probably can't add enough weigh up front to make it fly and still get off the ground. It's all about the distance from the C.G. point. Take ten minutes and do some sample loadings with the form in the plans and see the difference. I can shift my c.g. the same distance with 10 pounds in the tail as I can with 50 pounds on the firewall !!! There is no perfectly right answer. Do what makes you feel good but don't break any basic rules and think it out well. Making that first change is like plinking that first domino!! Once it's done there is no going back without starting over!!! End of novel ........................ Larry "my kids always said I ramble" Flesner P.S. O.K., one more thing. In my NON-ENGINEER trained mind, I think the balance is THE single most critical thing to keep in mind while building. Most everything else we discuss here on the Net are nits, including the new wing design. Built to plans and balanced, you will have a nice aircraft. Beyond that we are each trying to build the vision we each have in our head of what the perfect KR could be!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:10:06 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: KR: cracks Hey netters, I was looking over my boat stage project today and discovered a possible problem with my main spars. I bought a project in the boat stage which appears pretty old. I found a crack in the end of the main spars and can't determine how deep they are. Are these kind of "cracks" normal in older wood or a major problem? With all this talk about wings falling off, I don't want to take any chances! Is it feasable to replace the spars or would I be better off cutting my losses and starting from scratch? Darrin West KR-1 mailto:dwest@rose.net ......... . / .---------crack . / . ......... . . . . . . . . . . ......... . / .----------crack . / . ......... END OF SPAR STUB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:15:39 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks At 08:50 PM 6/15/98, you wrote: >At 01:24 PM 6~14~98 -0400, you wrote: > >Tom, > >I placed my wing tanks in the outboard panels. > >For those building header tanks, make sure you clamp down the line >somewhere before the firewall and then install a pull-apart between >there and the firewall. One KR accident report related a KR making >a hard landing that caused the firewall to separate from the fuselage. >the fuel line pulled the bottom of the tank out and covered the pilot >with fuel. How LUCKY he was that it never ignited. > > > >Larry Flesner > > Larry, I have never heard of a KR actually having the firewall separate from the fuselage. Who was it? When did this happen? How hard of a landing are you talking about or was it during an accident? Does anyone know first hand when and where this happened? Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:28:26 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: cracks At 10:10 PM 6/17/98 -0700, you wrote: Are these kind of "cracks" normal in older wood or a major problem? With all this talk about wings falling off, I don't want to take any chances! >>> If the ends of the spar caps (or any spruce for that matter) isn't treated properly with varnish or epoxy they will split as you described. You could start by using a circular saw and cutting off a few inches at a time until you get passed the split. Its not gona hurt your stub spars if they are a few inches shorter than the plans. That is unless the split goes into the wood for more than 4 or 5 inches then you may end up with a stubby stub wing! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:34:56 -0700 From: Allegra Sloman Subject: KR: Re: krnet-l-digest V2 #97 unsubscribe krnet-1-digest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:16:39 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge At 11:38 AM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >I believe that Roy Marsh put a wooden dowel leading edge on the horiz >stab in his 2S. Does anyone think this or any kind of leading edge >reinforcement is needed? > >Bob Smith ( you guessed it! I'm working on my horiz stab) > > Two layer of fiberglass bid is all that is needed. I don't understand why anyone would put a wooden dowel on the leading adge. I used a wooden dowel on my trailing edges but if I were to do it again I would use balsa tapered edges that you can purchase from any hobby shop on the trailing edges.. Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:16:37 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking At 12:33 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >> For those building header tanks, make sure you clamp down the line >> somewhere before the firewall and then install a pull-apart between >> there and the firewall. One KR accident report related a KR making >> a hard landing that caused the firewall to separate from the fuselage. >> the fuel line pulled the bottom of the tank out and covered the pilot >> with fuel. How LUCKY he was that it never ignited. > >All,This is my nightmare with that RR fiberglass header tank. One spark, and >you'd be dead, even if you made a landing you could walk away from. Let's see, >where can we get sparks on an airplane. How about a chock-full instrument panel >with lots of 12v wiring, placed right next to 12 gallons of gasoline? The lines >going into fiberglass tanks are FLOXED into place, and this is too weak for any >abuse at all. >No fuel in the cockpit for me, no way. I'd prefer it to leak out onto the ground, >or into the air. I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which >don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in aluminum or >glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't mean that's the best >design for everyone. >-Tom >Flameproof suit on order. > > Tom, Please, I promised myself that I wouldn't make comments on anything that wasn't technical. But I'm afraid that there are new builders out there that may be getting confused. The KR is a simple plane to build until you make it complicated. When you change from from the basic design it adds months and years to the project. Sometimes to the point that the KR will never be completed, at least by the original builder. The KR has been flying for over 25 years and I have never heard of a death or a fire due to a header tank or wing tank failure. It may happen but I never heard of one. There has been a countless fuel leak in both wing and header tanks upon initial fueling. After fixing the leaks, all is well. Whether you have a header tank or wing tanks(with electric fuel pumps), flying with gasoline all around you will always be something that you will have to consider when flying any type aircraft. Msg to new builders... Build it right, but build it with safety in mine. Just remember what Davy Crockett said "Make sure that you are right and go ahead." Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:23:54 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Engine Cowling Net Heads, I bought the beginning of my cowling today. I stopped by AS&S and picked up the nose cowl for a T-18. It can be seen on page 171 of the 97-98 catalog. The part number is MC-4 I also looked at MC-10 and it looked to ba a good one for KRs with O-200s or type four VWs. If you plan to build your own cowling I think these give you a great place to start. The nose of the cowling has to be the hardest past to get right so these are almost like cheating! :o) I would have loved to use the Revmaster KR cowling but I just couldn't see paying $400 for something I had to cut up and butcher to make work. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:40:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge At 10:16 PM 6/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >Two layer of fiberglass bid is all that is needed. I don't understand why >anyone would put a wooden dowel on the leading adge.>> I am with you there Bobby, I don't quite get this one! Just lap the fiberglass skins and it will be fine. What is the dowel for anyway? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:07:37 PDT From: "Jody Wallace" Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge >From owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Wed Jun 17 20:40:22 1998 >Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29094; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:40:13 -0700 (PDT) >Received: by smtp1.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:40:02 -0700 >Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id UAA29004 for krnet-l-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:40:00 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28997 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:39:57 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from deskpro-575 (ppp-207-214-180-243.irvn11.pacbell.net [207.214.180.243]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA28347 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:39:53 - -0700 (PDT) >Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980618034040.00a02e94@pacbell.net> >X-Sender: mikemims@pacbell.net >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:40:40 -0700 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >From: Micheal Mims >Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge >Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Precedence: bulk > >At 10:16 PM 6/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Two layer of fiberglass bid is all that is needed. I don't understand why >>anyone would put a wooden dowel on the leading adge.>> > >I am with you there Bobby, I don't quite get this one! Just lap the >fiberglass skins and it will be fine. What is the dowel for anyway? >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Hi all My name is (Mr.) Jody Wallace. I wanted to take take an opportunity to introduce myself and pass along a late breaking aviation story. I have purchased KR-2 plans and look forward to getting started building shortly. You people have great ideas and I really appreciate your organization...now for the story. Today an 81 year old WWII vet. was forced to land a Cessna 172 after the pilot had an apparent heart attack and slumped forward in the left seat. He (the passenger) had never been at the controls of any aircraft. Through the coaxing of the local controllers at Mt. Comfort airport (IN) and another aerobatic pilot, the old hero landed the plane with only minor damage. Sadly, the pilot was later pernounced dead. Chalk one up to the (Spam cans?) JW> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:53:40 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretch, mounts & gear legs I won't disagree with what Larry says about balancing the airplane. I didn't have a goal of making the plane for a 105# pilot, that's just how it turned out. I was building with a goal of moving weight forward. Had I built it any more forward, the plane would have to be parked in the - -eze row as it would want to fall over on to it's nose. With the plane empty and in a level attitude, I only have 12# on the tailwheel. Dan Diehl will not sell the 30 inch gear legs anymore. Larry and I have the only two sets as far as we know. Dan's concern is not with the glass gear leg so much as the leverage the longer leg exerts onto the cast aluminum mount up inside the wing. Dan's words to me at Perry were, "If you won't cut them off, then just make good landings." As I said about the mount, my choice was purely personal preference in how the mount is engineered. Obviously the HAPI mount works OK, but it was designed for mounting a VW, not a Continental. If I had it to do over again, I would probably weld my own. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 23:59:07 -0700 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Re: cracks Hi Darrin and all, The "cracking" is most probably checking in the end grains of the wood. They are caused by wood drying out by no preservative put on the ends. I 'Learned the hard way' a few years ago on another (not Aircraft) project. It would be best if the spars in question were rebuilt and sealed to protect them. (as time goes on). There are some Fiberglas resin products available in the boat building/repairing industry which address this problem but I don't think I'd use the processes on an Aircraft. BRGDS Marty - -----Original Message----- From: Darrin West To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 17 June, 1998 19:14 Subject: KR: cracks >Hey netters, >I was looking over my boat stage project today and discovered a possible >problem with my main spars. I bought a project in the boat stage which >appears pretty old. I found a crack in the end of the main spars and >can't determine how deep they are. Are these kind of "cracks" normal in >older wood or a major problem? With all this talk about wings falling >off, I don't want to take any chances! Is it feasable to replace the >spars or would I be better off cutting my losses and starting from >scratch? > >Darrin West >KR-1 >mailto:dwest@rose.net ......... > . / .---------crack > . / . > ......... > . . > . . > . . > . . > . . > ......... > . / .----------crack > . / . > ......... > END OF SPAR STUB > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 07:32:00 From: Flesner Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks =============snip========= One KR accident report related a KR making >>a hard landing that caused the firewall to separate from the fuselage. >>the fuel line pulled the bottom of the tank out and covered the pilot >>with fuel. How LUCKY he was that it never ignited. >> >>Larry Flesner >-----------snip------------ >Larry, I have never heard of a KR actually having the firewall separate >from the fuselage. Who was it? When did this happen? How hard of a >landing are you talking about or was it during an accident? > >Does anyone know first hand when and where this happened? > Bobby Muse(N122B) > ==============snip======================= Bobby, I read about this one in the KR accident files and as I recall it was quite a few years back. I can't find my copy of the report at the moment but it went something like ' after hitting wake turblence of the aircraft departing ahead of it, the KR hit the runway very hard causing the firewall to separate from the fuselage. The fuel line ruptured the bottom of the tank and the pilot's legs were covered with fuel. No fire resulted. Injuries, minor or none (as I recall). I'm sure it must have hit pretty hard to separate the firewall or the aircraft had a weak firewall. With the nosegear that is being used today, there will be additional stresses placed on the firewall in a crash/off airport landing. Something to think about. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:46:04 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Re: East coast gathering Which one of you guys ( any women builders out there?) has posted the info on the east coast gathering? I've got to finalize my hotel/flight info and dont watn to miss anything. With any luck I'll se a few more builders the week after at OSH. Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:51:49 -0700 From: "Tim Anderson" Subject: KR: Re: Weights Mike Mims wrote: > Netheads, as you know Brian Bland setup a web site that has the weights of > some of our projects at various states of completion. As you can see we > could use more input for this page. Break out those scales and let us know > how much your parts weigh! Go to: > > http://a51.wetworks.org/Weights.html > Hey, Mike, How come Brian's B-1 bomber weighed 5 lbs less than your SP-290 in the boat stage? Tim Anderson Stockton, CA tanderso@inreach.com Building frame 'n stuff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:58:17 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks Bobby Muse wrote: > Larry, I have never heard of a KR actually having the firewall separate > from the fuselage. Who was it? When did this happen? How hard of a > landing are you talking about or was it during an accident? > > Does anyone know first hand when and where this happened? > It was written in one of the earlier newsletters, complete with photos. As I remember, it was a bad landing. The firewall separated at the top longeron and sort of stayed attached at the bottom. The photo showed a gap of about 6-10 inches between the firewall and longeron at the top. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 07:25:41 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Weights Tim Anderson wrote: > How come Brian's B-1 bomber weighed 5 lbs less than your SP-290 in the boat stage? > > Tim Anderson I dont know, maybe he didnt have all the plywood gussets in place. Could be that I used 1/4 plywood on the S additions (main spar location and motor mount area). That weight was for everything from the turtledecks down. I will have an all up weight including wings this weekend. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 07:35:59 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks Donald Reid wrote: > > > > It was written in one of the earlier newsletters, complete with photos. > As I remember, it was a bad landing. The firewall separated at the top > longeron and sort of stayed attached at the bottom. The photo showed a > gap of about 6-10 inches between the firewall and longeron at the top. > > -- > - ---------------- Keep in mind the firewall has been reinforced since that happened. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:40:26 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Re: East coast gathering Richard Parker wrote: > I've got to finalize my hotel/flight info and dont watn to miss > anything. Richard, The Gathering will be mainly on Saturday, July 25, but the real diehards will be milling around at the airport on Friday. The hotel of choice will be the Ramada Inn (ph 931-388-2720). Mention the Raider Aviation discount, and let us know how much the room is... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:44:55 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning There was an accident report stating that a KR pilot had made an off-field landing, and the resulting fire melted a lot of u-foam, and he was cyanide poisoned in the cockpit, then burned. He was found a few days after the accident had occured. He was not able to get the canopy unlatched. - -Tom Bobby Muse wrote: > At 12:33 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> For those building header tanks, make sure you clamp down the line > >> somewhere before the firewall and then install a pull-apart between > >> there and the firewall. One KR accident report related a KR making > >> a hard landing that caused the firewall to separate from the fuselage. > >> the fuel line pulled the bottom of the tank out and covered the pilot > >> with fuel. How LUCKY he was that it never ignited. > > > >All,This is my nightmare with that RR fiberglass header tank. One spark, and > >you'd be dead, even if you made a landing you could walk away from. Let's see, > >where can we get sparks on an airplane. How about a chock-full instrument > panel > >with lots of 12v wiring, placed right next to 12 gallons of gasoline? The > lines > >going into fiberglass tanks are FLOXED into place, and this is too weak for any > >abuse at all. > >No fuel in the cockpit for me, no way. I'd prefer it to leak out onto the > ground, > >or into the air. I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which > >don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in > aluminum or > >glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't mean that's > the best > >design for everyone. > >-Tom > >Flameproof suit on order. > > > > > > Tom, > Please, I promised myself that I wouldn't make comments on anything that > wasn't technical. But I'm afraid that there are new builders out there that > may be getting confused. > > The KR is a simple plane to build until you make it complicated. When you > change from from the basic design it adds months and years to the project. > Sometimes to the point that the KR will never be completed, at least by the > original builder. > > The KR has been flying for over 25 years and I have never heard of a death > or a fire due to a header tank or wing tank failure. It may happen but I > never heard of one. There has been a countless fuel leak in both wing and > header tanks upon initial fueling. After fixing the leaks, all is well. > Whether you have a header tank or wing tanks(with electric fuel pumps), > flying with gasoline all around you will always be something that you will > have to consider when flying any type aircraft. > > Msg to new builders... Build it right, but build it with safety in mine. > Just remember what Davy Crockett said "Make sure that you are right and go > ahead." > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:12:46 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: RE: hstab leading edge What did you do on your second horiz stab?? Bob Smith Mark Langford wrote: > Bob Smith wrote: > > > I believe that Roy Marsh put a wooden dowel leading edge on the horiz > > stab in his 2S. Does anyone think this or any kind of leading edge > > reinforcement is needed? > > I must confess that I did that with my first h/s, except that I used a piece > of "half round" moulding from Home Depot (half the weight of a dowel, you > know) whose diameter matched the airfoil that I was using (half inch). But > a layer or two of glass made from a piece of 2" 9 oz tape would be a lot > lighter. Again though, this may be one of those areas in which we overbuild > for no apparent reason... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:59:30 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: RE: KR: RE: hstab leading edge Bob Smith wrote: > What did you do on your second horiz stab?? Bob, Believe it or not, I did it almost per the plans, which I think is one layer on top, and one layer on bottom, both overlapping a few inches at the leading edge. I did the trailing edge like I did my stub wings. The only difference was I added a layer of 1.45 oz silk weave "deck cloth". See "vertical stabilizer/rudder" on my page at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kvs.html for excruciating details on the trailing edge treatment. This keeps your trailing edge nice and straight, as well as very strong. This is one of the few parts that I ONLY had to make twice to get it right! Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:16:23 -0700 From: wolfpacks@juno.com (Linda & Paul Martin) Subject: KR: First time builder observations I hope to be out taxi testing the KR next week and have a few thoughts for other newcomers to the airplane world. Some of you will laugh but years of car fixin' didn't touch on these. Enjoy the humor :-) You may want to put the prop. on before starting the motor. If it fires before TDC (Slick impulse coupling) the extra rotational mass may keep it from kicking back and chewing a starter. The old 3 lb. HAPI starter (Bosch) is similar to a marine starter and rebuild parts can be found. Remind your wife/friend/child where not to step *before* they start out of the cockpit. Use a mask when sanding. White snot isn't fun after a day or two. Plan (write down) the next few steps. You may want to do step E before B and C. This is usually easier than ripping out B and C. Make "need" lists. You may have to wait for parts (NAPA doesn't have what you need) and the delay can hold up all the next steps down the chain. Get several opinions. The local A&P said to use sloshing compound in an older fiberglass fuel tank. It may work, but I feel better having a new one instead of a "fixed" one. Thank you KRNet. Have someone help you with the two person jobs. Independence is great, but help can save you months of repair. There's no bumpers on a KR. If you are rolling it around the garage and can't see the elevator because it's below the horiz. stab, step out and look. Nomex shorts are on, fire away. Paul M. Ashland, OR _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:12:39 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: RE: Re: East coast gathering FYI- the Ramada inn is booked solid for july 24th and 25th. the Days in 5 doors down is booked also. The Polk Motel 5 doors down in the other direction has rooms for 32.95 + tax. phone number is 931-388-2720. God (and probably a couple of the local hookers)only knows what it looks like. If anyone else is going to stay there let me know and we wont have to Check 6 as much. Airfare from Manchester NH was $55.00 each way. I couldnt have driven for that little. (add my name to the diehard list!) Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH >The Gathering will be mainly on Saturday, July 25, but the real >diehards will be milling around at the airport on Friday. The hotel >of choice will be the Ramada Inn (ph 931-388-2720). Mention the >Raider Aviation discount, and let us know how much the room is... >Mark Langford >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:32:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: RE: Re: East coast gathering On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Richard Parker wrote: > > FYI- the Ramada inn is booked solid for july 24th and 25th. the Days in > 5 doors down is booked also. The Polk Motel 5 doors down in the other > direction has rooms for 32.95 + tax. phone number is 931-388-2720. God > (and probably a couple of the local hookers)only knows what it looks > like. If anyone else is going to stay there let me know and we wont > have to Check 6 as much. > > Airfare from Manchester NH was $55.00 each way. I couldnt have driven > for that little. > > (add my name to the diehard list!) > > Rich Parker > Jaffrey, NH OK Rich, I'm covering your 6. Now who is going to cover me? Will get in sometime Friday. Will probably drive from Evansvillei, IN. If anyone is along the way I will be glad to pick them up. And what was that you said about the resident services at the Polk? Steve Eberhart newtech@newtech.com > > >The Gathering will be mainly on Saturday, July 25, but the real > >diehards will be milling around at the airport on Friday. The hotel > >of choice will be the Ramada Inn (ph 931-388-2720). Mention the > >Raider Aviation discount, and let us know how much the room is... > > >Mark Langford > >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > >KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > Richard E. Parker > Jaffrey, NH > richontheroad@hotmail.com > http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:15:53 EDT From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: RE: Re: East coast gathering Folks: Hot off the wire and ready for your review. Actually I stole it from the Q- List. Randy Stein flames to: BSHADR@aol.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mick Myal's CONTACT! Magazine's Website is up and running at http://www.NonProfitNet.com/CONTACT/ The website provides some background on the magazine, and a complete index of all issues of CONTACT! Magazine along with back issue ordering and subscription information. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #98 ****************************