From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 1998 8:01 PM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #147 krnet-l-digest Saturday, September 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 147 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:44:33 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: 2 cyl 4 strokes In a message dated 98-09-09 21:42:34 EDT, you write: << The Christine c2400S claims 87hp@3500rpm for a mere 82 lbs and 1000hr tbo. Is this to be believed? >> My first guess. No. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:57:42 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type In a message dated 9/9/98 9:47:08 PM Central Daylight Time, HAshraf@aol.com writes: > Second topic is kind of a dead horse. All rear spars and outer spars carry > way > less loads then center spars. So, I think, mahogany could safely be used > every > where except front center spars saving a couple of pounds of weight. Any > thoughts? I think the conventional wisdom has said to use the 2.5mm birch plywood on all of the spars. At the risk of scaring everyone from ever flying in my airplane once it is finished, all of my spars are laminated with 3/32 mahogany. Not saying I'm right, but that's what I did. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 20:44:16 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type At 10:44 PM 9/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >Today I saw 'the boat on sale' at RR and spent some time looking over it. One thing I noticed is that the center front spars were 2.5" deep. The plans specify both top and bottom center spars to be 2" deep. >>> My plans say the spars caps are 2 inches deep (top to bottom) and 2 5/32 wide (front to back). If this is wrong the bonfire will start at 7:00pm Saturday evening just outside of my hanger. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:01:01 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type At 10:57 PM 9/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >> Second topic is kind of a dead horse. All rear spars and outer spars carry way less loads then center spars. So, I think, mahogany could safely be used every where except front center spars saving a couple of pounds of weight. Any thoughts?>>> I think there comes a time when you have to ask yourself what is that pound of weight worth. I remember back when we were talking about Clear Doug FIR and the fact that all the wood required to build the boat could be bought for about $50 compared to $450 or so in spruce. The weight gain was about 10 pounds. Is spruce worth $40 a pound? Is the mahogany worth the pound or so it will save you? I don't think there is a strength issue with using mahogany for the shear webs. I think the Mahogany is about 2 pounds per sheet lighter and that works out to about $20 a pound. If I remember right it took about 2 sheets to make all the shear webs. So you could be 4 pounds lighter in weight and $120 lighter in the wallet. :o) And there you have it, what I think! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:53:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type At 09:01 PM 9/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >works out to about $20 a pound. If I remember right it took about 2 sheets to make all the shear webs. So you could be 4 pounds lighter in weight and $120 lighter in the wallet. > Uh that was supposed to be $30 a pound, oh well its getting late! Goodnight! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:50:26 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Weights In a message dated 98-09-09 20:30:15 EDT, you write: << Hi Dana friend of mine taxied around without wings we still haven't found the rest of his warp drive. tail is real light .Warron >> Hey Warron, didn't I meet you at Sun & Fun (firewall thru brackets)? Sorry for the personnal thread guys. In regards to my bussel of apples, my bird has standard diehl gear. For you guys who are getting to the point where I am presently, let me give you some advice.........oh, no watch out. Hang your engine with your wings on or tie down the tail...................it gets real light. After you do hang the engine, the first time (and all others) you take the outer panels off do the same thing and tie the tail down. The slightest pressure from front to back on that last panel will set your bird on it's nose. If you don't watch out, you will be making a decision of whether to drop a wing panel or watch your bird go into a nose dive attitude steeper than it'll probably ever be in. Mine didn't go over, but it could have. I hope these heart-stopping moments end..................but then again I'm almost done so the real heart stopping should be just getting started :-)). Send the nitro my way. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:07:20 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: Weights Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca or ve3ev@rac.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: KR2616TJ@aol.com > In regards to my bussel of apples, my bird has standard diehl gear. For you > guys who are getting to the point where I am presently, let me give you some > advice.........oh, no watch out. Hang your engine with your wings on or tie > down the tail...................it gets real light. After you do hang the > engine, the first time (and all others) you take the outer panels off do the > same thing and tie the tail down. The slightest pressure from front to back > on that last panel will set your bird on it's nose. If you don't watch out, > you will be making a decision of whether to drop a wing panel or watch your > bird go into a nose dive attitude steeper than it'll probably ever be in. > Mine didn't go over, but it could have. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY I have been taxiing my KR2 for the past month or two while I patched the blemishes in the outer wing panels. I found that, with full brakes (which means very little I might add" the tail wants to rise at around 2700 rmp. Without brakes, I became too busy tyrying to get the tail down to notice anything else. It comes up rather quickly when you taxi. Remember: this is without wings. When I mounted my Rev, the tail was on the ground. I used a block and tackle to gently position the beast on its supports. Once the engine was attached, I disconnected the chain and everything was as it should have been. This was done without the wings in place. When I started working on the wing stub rear spar, which needed splicing do to poor storage practices on the part of the previous set of owners, I had to raise the tail to make the job easier. The Queen or some other Royal family member must have been passing my door because the KR2 did a brief curtsy then a full fledge bow in respect. My hanging on to the tail saved the day, but I felt like Tim Conway hanging on to a doorknob. Must have been funny to watch. I didn't laugh. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:21:44 -0400 From: msharkey@softarc.com (Mike Sharkey) Subject: Re: KR: 2 cyl 4 strokes krnet-l@teleport.com writes: > The Christine c2400S claims >87hp@3500rpm for a mere 82 lbs and 1000hr tbo. Does 2400 indicate 2400cc displacement? If that's the case, then the claimed output may be true. But, those would be some very big jugs, my guess would be you'd be looking for some big rubber motor mounts as the vibration from a two cylinder of that size would be enormous at relatively low RPMs. I would question the true weight of this thing also, is that weight bare naked? Normally, the two cylinders are much smaller than 2400cc and run at higher RPM using a reduction drive, this solves the vibration problem, but generally decreases the TBO. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:21:58 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: elev horn arm length Hi KRnetheads, I am ready to drill the holes in my elevator horn and set the arm length in stone. It is my understanding that the plans call for a 2.5" arm on the stick and 3" on the elevator but that the stick feel can be improved with less elevator arm length (Lancair data). It has also been suggested that maybe the stick should be 3" and elevator 2.5". My goal is to get the best stick feel to minimize any pitchiness (Uh Oh, I said a bad word) So I have 2 questions: 1) what arm dimensions have been shown to work well? and 2) is there any known problem making the elev arm an odd dimension such as 2 3/4"? (I might add that I plan to use linkage from stick to a bellcrank on the aft spar and cables from there to the elevator horn) Thanks in advance!!! Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:18:59 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: 2 cyl 4 strokes Afzoomer@aol.com wrote: > > In all the discussion about engines I have not seen any of the 2cylinder > 4strokes mentioned. Some of these put out alot of HP for their weight. > Anybody have first or second hand info on these? The Christine c2400S claims > 87hp@3500rpm for a mere 82 lbs and 1000hr tbo. Is this to be believed? I'm not familiar with the two cylinder Christine, but I'm fairly sure that Christine abandoned the exp. aviation business a while back. Christine's engines were VW based(their core business being racing and hotrod street VW engines). The 87hp claimed for a 2 cylinder seems very improbable as most 1/2 VW(if that's what this is/was) run 35 to 40hp. Note the high rpm also. Add some weight for a redrive. My $.02, Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:37:31 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: elev horn arm length Bob, I used 2-3/4" and only have the elevator horn sticking out the top. I cut off the bottom and have a rod going through the forward rudder spar to another horn for cable attachment. By having multiple holes drilled in this intermediary elevator arm it allows me to adjust the distance from the cable attach points to the pivot point. Mark Langford I beleive is the real inventor of this idea and has it posted on his web page. Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH >Hi KRnetheads, > >I am ready to drill the holes in my elevator horn and set the arm length >in stone. It is my understanding that the plans call for a 2.5" arm on >the stick and 3" on the elevator but that the stick feel can be improved >with less elevator arm length (Lancair data). It has also been suggested >that maybe the stick should be 3" and elevator 2.5". My goal is to get >the best stick feel to minimize any pitchiness (Uh Oh, I said a bad >word) > >So I have 2 questions: 1) what arm dimensions have been shown to work >well? and 2) is there any known problem making the elev arm an odd >dimension such as 2 3/4"? > >(I might add that I plan to use linkage from stick to a bellcrank on the >aft spar and cables from there to the elevator horn) > >Thanks in advance!!! > >Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:18:01 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: elev horn arm length smithr wrote: > > Hi KRnetheads, > > I am ready to drill the holes in my elevator horn and set the arm length > in stone. It is my understanding that the plans call for a 2.5" arm on > the stick and 3" on the elevator but that the stick feel can be improved > with less elevator arm length (Lancair data). It has also been suggested > that maybe the stick should be 3" and elevator 2.5". My goal is to get > the best stick feel to minimize any pitchiness (Uh Oh, I said a bad > word) > > So I have 2 questions: 1) what arm dimensions have been shown to work > well? and 2) is there any known problem making the elev arm an odd > dimension such as 2 3/4"? > > (I might add that I plan to use linkage from stick to a bellcrank on the > aft spar and cables from there to the elevator horn) > > Thanks in advance!!! > > Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY Hi Bob, Go into my website. I have some data there on controls, this is what I did. Maybe, it will give you some food for thought. - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:14:49 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: 2 cyl 4 strokes At 01:18 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >> 87hp@3500rpm for a mere 82 lbs and 1000hr tbo. Is this to be believed? > >Note the high rpm also. Add some weight for a redrive. > 3500 aint that high is it? We can turn 3600 or more on both of the Dragonflies. But 87 hp does seem a tad bit for a 2 cylinder VW but if this engine is 2400cc it aint no VW. Heck that means it has cylinders the size of the ones on my Lycoming. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:30:12 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Fwd: Final 1998 KR Gathering Agenda This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_905484612_boundary Content-ID: <0_905484612@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Ok, so a typo in the address is a BAD thing.... - --part0_905484612_boundary Content-ID: <0_905484612@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: EagleGator@aol.com Return-path: To: krent-l@teleport.com Subject: Final 1998 KR Gathering Agenda Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:54 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I just finished talking to Don, and we finalized the agenda. You can see it at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator/agenda.html. Nothing fancy, but it will let you know what's going on when. I'd like to get a rough hack on how many folks from the KRNet will be there. Please send me an email with the subject "I'll be there 18, 19, 20", including only the dates you will be there, of course. This will give me a WAG at how many folks will be at the BBQ Friday night and the banquet on Saturday. There will be a charge for the banquet, but I forgot to ask Don how much... duh. By the way, there will be a KR Gathering donation bucket available throughout the gathering and then passed at the banquet to help defray the cost of hosting this gala event. No pressure, just toss in a few bucks if and when you feel like it. There will also be donation buckets for KRNet and for the KR Pilots Relief Fund (to defray the cost of the pilots giving rides). You know what the KRNet is worth to all of us, so let's all do what we need to to keep it rolling. You also know what a ride in a KR is worth to you, so don't forget to show your appreciation by pitching in to help pay for gas. There will be a single bucket (large trash barrel -- hint hint) for the Relief Fund so that no money directly changes hands between those getting rides and those giving rides (Big Brother will be watching). The money collected will be applied against the total collective fuel bill for the weekend for all the KR flyers. Anything left over will be carried forward to next year's event. It's a good deal all around. Oh, one more thing -- I'll be driving in from St. Charles Thursday, should get to Perry around 1300. There's a nice little bar at the Best Western, there's a CHANCE there might be a KR guy or two there Thursday night.... ;o} That's all I've got for now, questions are welcomed, don't hesitate to ask 'em. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO - --part0_905484612_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:21:52 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: elev horn arm length FWIW, I have pushrod controls the whole distance to the elevator. I tried shortening the stroke by on the stick to give the plane more "feel" and found that if anything, it was more difficult to fly, especially for landing. I only made three test flights with this configuration before changing back to my original setup. Without question, my original setup was better. Jeff Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:21:58 -0400 smithr writes: >Hi KRnetheads, > >I am ready to drill the holes in my elevator horn and set the arm >length >in stone. It is my understanding that the plans call for a 2.5" arm on >the stick and 3" on the elevator but that the stick feel can be >improved >with less elevator arm length (Lancair data). It has also been >suggested >that maybe the stick should be 3" and elevator 2.5". My goal is to >get >the best stick feel to minimize any pitchiness (Uh Oh, I said a bad >word) > >So I have 2 questions: 1) what arm dimensions have been shown to work >well? and 2) is there any known problem making the elev arm an odd >dimension such as 2 3/4"? > >(I might add that I plan to use linkage from stick to a bellcrank on >the >aft spar and cables from there to the elevator horn) > >Thanks in advance!!! > >Bob Smith, KR2S, Albany, NY > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:31:21 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Weights Yep, my bird got dropped on it's nose once while doing the last weigh in just before I painted it. JEB and I were lifting it onto the scales while my oldest son was supposed to be holding the tail. Son was out in the street admiring our work rather than holding the tail. The plane landed on the chin of the cowling. Fortunately, the prop was set crossways and the damage was only cosmetic and easily repaired. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:07:20 -0400 "Cary Honeywell" writes: > >I have been taxiing my KR2 for the past month or two while I patched the >blemishes in the outer wing panels. I found that, with full brakes (which >means very little I might add" the tail wants to rise at around 2700 rmp. >Without brakes, I became too busy tyrying to get the tail down to notice >anything else. It comes up rather quickly when you taxi. Remember: this is >without wings. > >When I mounted my Rev, the tail was on the ground. I used a block and >tackle to gently position the beast on its supports. Once the engine was >attached, I disconnected the chain and everything was as it should have >been. This was done without the wings in place. > >When I started working on the wing stub rear spar, which needed splicing do >to poor storage practices on the part of the previous set of owners, I had >to raise the tail to make the job easier. The Queen or some other Royal >family member must have been passing my door because the KR2 did a brief >curtsy then a full fledge bow in respect. My hanging on to the tail saved >the day, but I felt like Tim Conway hanging on to a doorknob. Must have >been funny to watch. I didn't laugh. > >- Cary - > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:19:57 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: rudder size? Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 10:07 PM 8/23/98 -0500, you wrote: > >RudderHeads, > > > >I really hate to set off another flurry of KR traffic, but I'm wondering > >about KR rudder size. Troy says he thinks it has way too much, and that > >he never uses but a small fraction of it. >>> I don't think it is rudder size that matters, but how you use it. :O - -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:11:33 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Subject: KR: Re: stripped plug threads I saw this on a motorcycle list, and remembered the recent thread on the subject here. The "cold-plug in-hot-head" tip is something I've never seen anywhere else, but it makes sense. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________ 'Mine goes up to 11' ___________________________________ <<< Plug readings are essential in determining the state of tune of your engine. It's become difficult tho with the witches brew being sold as gasoline these days, especially the CA stuff! Of course you can always set the carb on the rich side, and the timing on the slow side..... As Eric pointed out, ALWAYS use anti seize lube on the plug threads. A tuner trick: NEVER tighten a cool plug in a hot motor! Screw it in snugly, allow the plug to warm to the head temp, and then finnish tightening. This will prevent most stripped plug thread problems. BTW, this also applies to drain plugs in alloy cases. Also carry a short length, app 2" works, of neoprene fuel line in your pocket to slip over the plug insulator to allow you to spin the hot plug in/out and to hold it without pain. I always carry a light weight cheapo plug wrench and the tubing in my jacket pocket for reading time.>>> _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:11:34 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Subject: Re: KR:tail Weights As Larry says, this is not a CG issue but a gear-placement issue. The original design for the Cessna 140 also had a problem with too light a tail. The flight schools got tired of buying new props for their trainers, so Cessna made extensions owners could put on the bottom of the gear legs to move the wheels forward a few inches. This could also be done with a KR if the tailwheel weight turns out to be wrong, but changing the CG for this problem is wrong. I don't know how the Diehl gear mounts, but if it's possible to set it up so it could be tweaked forward or backward a bit, you could do final adjustments after initial taxi tests. Mike Taglieri - --------------------------------------- 'Mine goes up to 11' - --------------------------------------- >I think the concern here isn't so much the CG as it is with whether or >not these guys will have to park in the -eze row at airshows with >their chins on the ground. In general, I think most KR builders want >to get the CG as far forward as possible without having the plane tip >over when there's no pilot aboard. > >To compare more apples to grapefruit :o), I own the other set of long >Diehl gear legs so my gear geometry is different from most. My plane >had 5# on the tailwheel fully assembled in a level attitude before >painting it. After painting, it had 12# on the tail in the same >attitude. With my butt in the seat, it has lots of weight on the >tailwheel. :o/ I never even considered firing the engine without the >wings on as they do move the CG aft. >>You guys are probably compairing apples and oranges. You more than >>likely have totally different gear geometry and that will direcrtly >>affect >>your tail weight on the ground. It also is not necessarily and >>indication of >>your airborne C.G.. My KR is stretched 24 inches and has an 0-200 on >>a HAPI mount on 1 inch spacers. I also have about 5 to 10 pounds of >>tail weight without the outer wing panels installed but I have 30 >inch >> >>Diehl gear that places my main wheel contact a few inches forward >>of the standard Diehl gear. Mike has a gear of his own design. >>See what I mean ? The real concern is where the flight C.G. falls >>unless >>your gear geometry is so out of wack that you can't handle the >>airplane on the ground. Make sure you are compairing similar >>KR's before you confirm you own speculations with other builders >>rumors. >> >>Larry Flesner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:50:59 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type In a message dated 98-09-10 00:02:00 EDT, you write: << I think there comes a time when you have to ask yourself what is that pound of weight worth. I remember back when we were talking about Clear Doug FIR and the fact that all the wood required to build the boat could be bought for about $50 compared to $450 or so in spruce. The weight gain was about 10 pounds. Is spruce worth $40 a pound? Is the mahogany worth the pound or so it will save you? I don't think there is a strength issue with using mahogany for the shear webs. I think the Mahogany is about 2 pounds per sheet lighter and that works out to about $20 a pound. If I remember right it took about 2 sheets to make all the shear webs. So you could be 4 pounds lighter in weight and $120 lighter in the wallet. :o) >> My concern is carrying all the unnecessary weight around. Maybe I still thinh like an aerospace engineer who is constantly reminded that that it cost $20,000 to put 1 kg in space and much more if you escape gravity ;-) Althought I admit that if i have to carry some weigth around it WILL be in spars. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:05:14 EDT From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR:tail Weights I put my KR up on the nose once, when I got about 1 inch slop in the gear retrack system. I was running up the engine and over it went.Pushing on the brakes harder diden't do a thing to help. In fact,if I let it roll a little bit, the tail would have went down. This cost me a new prop, and a new crank shaft. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:36:46 -0500 From: Paul Eberhardt Subject: KR: 2-strokes Did anyone see the guy at OSH in the ulrtalight end that had those little stackable opposed twins? They were 10 HP 2 cyl 2 strokes that had a gear reduction with an output at the bottom. They stack with tie rods or something, and the output shafts mate together. The one he had on his table was a 6 cyl 30 HP cinfig that weighed 26# - long block only. I'll bet you'd be the only KR on the field with a 100# 120 HP 12 cyl. (not to mention the 5' cowl) I was so busy playing with my new GPS that I didn't pick up any literature. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:26:08 -0500 From: Paul Eberhardt Subject: Re: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type I visited Tarus Mfg. who makes CMM auto body panel checking machines with probes accurate to within .001 mm. They have repalaced steel as their main beam material with carbon fiber. The beams are of a 2" x 6" rectangular cross section with about a 1/16 wall thickness. They told me that they see a 200:1 weight advantage over steel, without the thermal expansion problems (these beams get to be 30' long). They are EXPENSIVE and the CMM's can cost a million bucks. Point? -- There is probably a better material for every component on your KR. With enough money, I don't see why you couldn't keep it under 200#. My target: 700# wet and somewhere less than $1 million. > Second topic is kind of a dead horse. All rear spars and outer spars carry way > less loads then center spars. So, I think, mahogany could safely be used every > where except front center spars saving a couple of pounds of weight. Any > thoughts? > > Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:19:43 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus At 05:06 PM 9/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >---------- >> From: Krwr1@aol.com >> To: krnet-l@teleport.com >> Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus >> Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 8:40 AM >> >> I had trouble with stripping out plug holes. I found the plug extended >into >> the cylender, and carbon building up on the plug striped out the thread >when >> you took out the plug. >> >> I put two washers on each plug and also anti seize compound. After >that, no >> more problems. >> >> ( You can have the holes welded up and rethreaded. or buy new heads.) > >Thanks that was the problem going to get it welded and have it flying by >perry OK. > > always use anti-seize compound on the plug threads. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:27:13 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: PerryKosh workshops EagleGator, you there? I spoke with Don Parham at RFI in McAlester, OK about giving a Subaru conversion workshop at the Perry "alternative engine" discussions. As I mentioned before, he has been in and out of the hospital, plus lost his business partner and is now busy trying to hook up with a new fiberglass person. He did say that he is very interested in the KR community and originally developed his conversions for the KR because he was building one at the time, so he will try to get over to Perry on Sat. the 19th, but it will be a last-minute decision due to being out of town most of the week. He has a conversion flying in a Europa, over 100 hrs. in it, and the builder is flying it down to his shop in McAlester to show him how it turned out. He will contact the builder to see if he will swing it by Perry on the way- so folks can see one for real, flying. There are other things of interest that he can bring, but won't know if he will make it until next week. I will let you know... Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:12:12 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Hangar at Perry Jeff, you asked about hangar space at Perry... the answer is that it depends on the weather. There are two twins in the hangar right now, and I believe they will have to be put back in the hangar at night, which will leave a limited amount of space for KR's overnight. If the weather is bad, the twins will stay in the hangar during the day, too, so it will be a bit cramped. there may be some other space open on the field, but everyone should plan on bringing what they need to tie their airplanes down in the grass, if need be. If this is a major concern or problem for anyone, please call Don Betchan at (580) 336-5954 and I'm sure he'll help you work out what you need. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:47:39 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus Bill, What plug type were you using. I'm thinking that the correct plug shouldn't do this. Or am I wrong? That's why I'm asking. - -- Ross Krwr1@aol.com wrote: > > I had trouble with stripping out plug holes. I found the plug extended into > the cylender, and carbon building up on the plug striped out the thread when > you took out the plug. > > I put two washers on each plug and also anti seize compound. After that, no > more problems. > > ( You can have the holes welded up and rethreaded. or buy new heads.) > > Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:50:54 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Real TV Fatalities? I will watch for the episode, pehaps someone can catch the "N" number and we can look that up. - -- Ross Genseric@aol.com wrote: > > Any one watch Real TV tonight? It had a KR-2 That Crashed on take of for it's > first flight. > I was wondering if any one knows more about it? They said it was carosion in > the fuel pump, but I was also wondering what else was going on. > It looked like the plane stalled out just before it hit. > > Any thaughts out there? > > Ben Raby > Minnesota ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:57:51 EDT From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus Hi Ross I used Champion L87Y, I used this the whole time I flew the KR.. What do you mean the right plug, the german plug? I was told by a guy that flew a VW that , that was what he used, so you cant argue with what works. The only problem was it extended too far into the engine. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:25:35 -0500 From: "Terry Chizek" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus - ---------- > From: Ross Youngblood > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus > Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:47 PM > > Bill, > What plug type were you using. I'm thinking that > the correct plug shouldn't do this. Or am I wrong? > That's why I'm asking. > -- Ross > > > Krwr1@aol.com wrote: > > > > I had trouble with stripping out plug holes. I found the plug extended into > > the cylender, and carbon building up on the plug striped out the thread when > > you took out the plug. > > > > I put two washers on each plug and also anti seize compound. After that, no > > more problems. > > > > ( You can have the holes welded up and rethreaded. or buy new heads.) Im using champion REL 37B in a revmaster did not have enough clearence on the bottom plug for the cover so I left the washer out.this left about three thread showing in the cyclinder terry chizek ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:37:41 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Forwarded message The original message bounced to me as it was > 40K in size. That is the limit for a KRNET post. For all the KR builders and Flyers. You are personally invited to an old time Fly-In: The Annual EAA Chapter 866 Smilin Jack Fly-In Dunn Airport X21 Titusville Florida Saturday Oct 19, 1998 8:00 am to 4:00 pm. Admission and parking free Free Breakfast for Fly-In Pilots Food Proceeds to support Chapter Pietenpole Project Breakfast 8:00 to 10:00 am Lunch 11:00am to 1:00pm Experimental Homebuilts Ultralights Antiques Classics Skydivers Models Hangar Flying Come and enjoy one of the oldest airports in Florida that still retains that old time nostalgia near the Space Shuttle launch and landing site at Kennedy Space Center For those of you who come with your gear down and locked: >From I-95 take exit 80 East on Garden Street 1.2 miles to Williams Avenue Left 0.5 miles to Dunn Airport Parking straight ahead. >From US-1 (Hopkins) west on Garden Street 0.7 miles to Dixie, 0.8 miles to airport Drive, Smilin Jack straight ahead. Any questions E-mail kipapilot@gnc.net Kip Anderson Titusville Florida 407-269-4564 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:47:11 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: Re: KR: Forwarded message speaking of Fly-ins... check the Thomasville Fly-in info @ http://CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032/ lots of info ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:00:49 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: Re: KR: Forwarded message sorry for the mistake earlier... Thomasville Fly-In info @ http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:54:03 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: Fwd: Final 1998 KR Gathering Agenda EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > Ok, so a typo in the address is a BAD thing.... > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Final 1998 KR Gathering Agenda > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:54 EDT > From: EagleGator@aol.com > To: krent-l@teleport.com > > I just finished talking to Don, and we finalized the agenda. You can see it > at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator/agenda.html. Nothing fancy, but it will > let you know what's going on when. > > I'd like to get a rough hack on how many folks from the KRNet will be there. > Please send me an email with the subject "I'll be there 18, 19, 20", including > only the dates you will be there, of course. This will give me a WAG at how > many folks will be at the BBQ Friday night and the banquet on Saturday. There > will be a charge for the banquet, but I forgot to ask Don how much... duh. > > By the way, there will be a KR Gathering donation bucket available throughout > the gathering and then passed at the banquet to help defray the cost of > hosting this gala event. No pressure, just toss in a few bucks if and when > you feel like it. There will also be donation buckets for KRNet and for the > KR Pilots Relief Fund (to defray the cost of the pilots giving rides). You > know what the KRNet is worth to all of us, so let's all do what we need to to > keep it rolling. You also know what a ride in a KR is worth to you, so don't > forget to show your appreciation by pitching in to help pay for gas. There > will be a single bucket (large trash barrel -- hint hint) for the Relief Fund > so that no money directly changes hands between those getting rides and those > giving rides (Big Brother will be watching). The money collected will be > applied against the total collective fuel bill for the weekend for all the KR > flyers. Anything left over will be carried forward to next year's event. > It's a good deal all around. > > Oh, one more thing -- I'll be driving in from St. Charles Thursday, should get > to Perry around 1300. There's a nice little bar at the Best Western, there's > a CHANCE there might be a KR guy or two there Thursday night.... ;o} > > That's all I've got for now, questions are welcomed, don't hesitate to ask > 'em. > > Cheers, > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO Rick You'll have to talk to Marty real nice about giving rides this year. Seems that after giving ( and I do mean giving since the guy did not conttribute to the gas fund ) that Kitplanes did an article about an overweight pig a KR-2. He took this personally and swore to never give another ride. I think he can be persuaded though. N4DD will not make it this year. Too much to do and so little time. I am trying to catch a ride for saturday but have to be back as i am the mc for a banquet at American Airlines. Hope to see you there. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #147 *****************************