From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Friday, October 09, 1998 11:17 PM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #159 krnet-l-digest Friday, October 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 159 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:01:50 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: All Wood KR (Old thread) JKM001@aol.com wrote: > > As far as composite goes, I do not like it. I was considering using ply skins > on the wings and tail areas followed by a coat of epoxy, sanded and apply auto > paint with an additive to keep the paint flexible. Any thoughts on this? > Keith, This has been done, there is a picture of an ALL WOOD KR-2 based design called the "Firebird" by the builder, all built from hemlock instead of spruce, and plywood for the flight surfaces. Go to http://www.krnet.org/Rotating.htm If this doesn't work, go to http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm, and click on the link to Norm Rosenau's Firebird on the MAIN page down in the middle. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:26:32 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Re: question about Mosler I belive Mosler went out of business, can anyone reply to this Gentleman who emailed me? HE is not a KRNET member, so post to his address listed below: Aimo Päivöke wrote: > > Hello ! > Years ago I bought a Mosler VW-based engine to my Kr2-project. Now I have > not found any information about Mosler engines any more. > Do you know what has happened to it. > > Regards Aimo > > Aimo Päivöke > p. +358-9-61393 470 > m. +358-400-870481 > e-mail. aimo.paivoke@pp.inet.fi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:43:28 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Registering your KR For those that were wondering about Registering their Aircraft, this is a page with the Adobe Acrobat forms for doing this. http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/forms.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:51:17 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Re: KR2S outer wing spars John, Please post your questions to krnet-l@teleport.com KRnetters: I have forwarded this question to the list. (I'm not sure if John is a KR-net member, so you may want to reply to jwnwl@juno.com to make sure he gets your reply. -- Regards Ross John M. Wadleigh wrote: > > I am working on the outer wing spars of a KR2S. The outer wing forward > spar has a top view and a side view taper. The plans are not clear on > these tapers. Are these tapers made even to a centerline - or are the > tapers (from 1 15/16" to 1" on the top view ; and 1 7/8" to 11/16" on the > bottom view ) cut from one side only. > > I would appreciate any help to this question. Thanks. > > John Wadleigh > jwnw1@juno.com > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:33:19 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tail post joint John, I experienced the same problem back in 81 when I built my Kr. If you already glued in the cross members on the bottom or the top of the fuselage, then it is probably to late. If I was to do it over again, I would layout the fuselage upside down on the gig table, bore a hole in the table for the tail post to go through. I would cut the angle on both sides of the tail post to establish the 1 3/4" dimension needed on the back side of the post. I know its time consuming but you get only one chance if you rush and glue everything. I found out too late in my project. Probably bond the tail and the firewall first and work from one end to the other. Do not cut your cross pieces to the plan dimensions. Measure each one individually as you go from one end to the other. Use a piece of pine or something thats easy to work with to get your angles, then make the real part once you are sure and confident with the angles. It's been a long time since then but i hope i have given some useful advise.......Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:58:21 -0700 From: "Ronald R. Eason Sr." Subject: KR: Re: KR control cables This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BDF2E5.3CD70900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, but I used S.S. Ron Eason - -----Original Message----- From: g hamilton To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 8:23 PM Subject: KR: KR control cables >Can someone confirm the specs on the control cables. My set of plans don't have any reference. Is 1/8 inch, 7x19 galvanized standard? > >Gary Hamilton >Ghami@gtwn.net > > - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BDF2E5.3CD70900 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Ronald R. Eason Sr..vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Ronald R. Eason Sr..vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Eason Sr.;Ronald;R. FN:Ronald R. Eason Sr. ORG:J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd.;Engineering TITLE:C.E.O., President NOTE:Appartment Veranda House, 100 W. Lincoln ST., Tullahoma. TN. = 37388, House phone 931-455-7033, Fax 931-455-9335, Aptmt.#308, phone = 931-393-3165. TEL;WORK;VOICE:816-468-4091 TEL;HOME;VOICE:816-468-4425 TEL;PAGER;VOICE:816-989-9692 TEL;WORK;FAX:816-468-5465 TEL;HOME;FAX:816-468-5465 ADR;WORK:;jrlkc@mindspring.com;7333 North = Brooklyn;Gladstone,;MO.;64118-2329;U.S.A. LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:jrlkc@mindspring.com=3D0D=3D0A7333= North Brooklyn=3D0D=3D0AGladstone,, MO. 64118-232=3D 9=3D0D=3D0AU.S.A. ADR;HOME:;;7333 N. Brooklyn;Gladstone,;MO.;64118-2329;U.S.A. LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:7333 N. = Brooklyn=3D0D=3D0AGladstone,, MO. 64118-2329=3D0D=3D0AU.S.A. URL: URL:http://jrl-engineering.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:ron@jrl-engineering.com EMAIL;INTERNET:jrlkc@mindspring.com EMAIL;INTERNET:reason1@ficom.net REV:19981009T005821Z END:VCARD - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BDF2E5.3CD70900-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:43:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR control cables Ronald R. Eason Sr. wrote: > > Yes, but I used S.S. > > >Can someone confirm the specs on the control cables. My set of plans don't > have any reference. Is 1/8 inch, 7x19 galvanized standard? > > > >Gary Hamilton > >Ghami@gtwn.net > > I think the cables are supposed to be 3/32 but I could be wrong, plans are at the hanger at the moment. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:48:31 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Rabbit CIS FI > Mark Langford talks about his T-4 on his web site. He apparently is going > to use an > early Rabbit mechanical FI system. I know the 77 uses it, and the 76, and several later years. Some cars actually had carburetors during the early 80's, in the interest of cost cutting, but they were special el-cheapo versions. At some point in the late 70's or early 80's VW graduated to CIS-E (electronically enhanced), which is what I'm trying to avoid. These use the same basic CIS system, but idle speed and mixture are modified by electronic sensors in an effort to improve efficiency and emissions. Way too much complexity for my taste. That many more things to break, and they WILL leave you walking, not just "limping" home. Pure CIS is pure mechanical except for the fuel pump and cold start valve. Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:11:34 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Rabbit CIS FI Thanks for the info, Mark. I'll start shopping around at the local recycling centers... WD At 06:48 PM 10/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Mark Langford talks about his T-4 on his web site. He apparently is going >> to use an >> early Rabbit mechanical FI system. > >I know the 77 uses it, and the 76, and several later years. Some cars >actually had carburetors during the early 80's, in the interest of cost >cutting, but they were special el-cheapo versions. At some point in the >late 70's or early 80's VW graduated to CIS-E (electronically enhanced), >which is what I'm trying to avoid. These use the same basic CIS system, but >idle speed and mixture are modified by electronic sensors in an effort to >improve efficiency and emissions. Way too much complexity for my taste. >That many more things to break, and they WILL leave you walking, not just >"limping" home. Pure CIS is pure mechanical except for the fuel pump and >cold start valve. > >Mark Langford >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 20:27:51 -0500 From: Paul Eberhardt Subject: Re: KR: Rabbit CIS FI I'm thinking of using the CIS-E on my turbo soob. I don't plan on using the computer, though. All the computer does is process a bunch of inputs from senders and output an amperage to the control pressure reg (which is right on the side of the fuel dist.). I plan on using the control pressure reg, but giving it a signal from the cockpit - mixture knob. Older CIS has a thermal control pressure reg. that mounts to the block. This means more high pressure plumbing and more weight. I suppose this could be replaced with a manual pressure reg. for mixture control, but again, more plumbing & weight. Speaking of weight, the -E has an aluminum fuel dist. while the older CIS is cast iron. The main reason I'm thinking FI is the fact that I'm making my own intake manifold, and I'm worried about even fuel dist. from a carb. With the turbo, there should be plenty of air, but I'm afraid the fuel mixture would vary from side to side. Then again I could be all wet. Does anyone know if someone has VW FI in the air? Mark Langford wrote: > > > Mark Langford talks about his T-4 on his web site. He apparently is going > > to use an > > early Rabbit mechanical FI system. > > I know the 77 uses it, and the 76, and several later years. Some cars > actually had carburetors during the early 80's, in the interest of cost > cutting, but they were special el-cheapo versions. At some point in the > late 70's or early 80's VW graduated to CIS-E (electronically enhanced), > which is what I'm trying to avoid. These use the same basic CIS system, but > idle speed and mixture are modified by electronic sensors in an effort to > improve efficiency and emissions. Way too much complexity for my taste. > That many more things to break, and they WILL leave you walking, not just > "limping" home. Pure CIS is pure mechanical except for the fuel pump and > cold start valve. > > Mark Langford > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:32:52 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: KR: Good site for used engines Hi Netters, I came across a pretty good classifieds site for used engines and parts. http://www.barnstormers.com/engL2900.html is for the 0-290 engines and parts (Mike!), and if you go to just http://www.barnstormers.com/market.html you can see all classified categories, including a few listings from guys cleaning out their hangars. - -Tom Andersen Orlando FL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:32:30 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: All Wood KR (Old thread) Hi Ross, N90NR is very nicely done. Do you have any specs. on it?? Like how much does it weigh, etc. At 02:01 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >JKM001@aol.com wrote: >> >> As far as composite goes, I do not like it. I was considering using ply skins >> on the wings and tail areas followed by a coat of epoxy, sanded and apply auto >> paint with an additive to keep the paint flexible. Any thoughts on this? >> >Keith, > This has been done, there is a picture of an ALL WOOD KR-2 based >design called the "Firebird" by the builder, all built from hemlock >instead of spruce, and plywood for the flight surfaces. > >Go to http://www.krnet.org/Rotating.htm > > If this doesn't work, go to >http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm, and click on the link to Norm >Rosenau's >Firebird on the MAIN page down in the middle. > -- Regards > Ross > Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:52:54 -0700 From: GEORGE ROBERTSON Subject: Re: KR: Wing Skins At 01:12 PM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >I refuse to answer that comment again (G) > >Question, where is the best place to buy the wood/materials kit for the KR2? I see both >Wicks and Aircraft Spruce have it. Funny I think they both say they are to sole supplier >for it. BS > >I'm looking for good stuff and good price. > >Gordon >gordon i bought my wood from western aircraft supplies in calgary. very good and better service than as&s. george > >Micheal Mims wrote: > >> > JKM001@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > "As far as composite goes, I do not like it. I was considering using ply skins>>>> >> >> First I would have to say everyone has the right not to like this or >> that but,..have you worked with fiberglass and epoxy before? Its really >> easy and lots of fun. Maybe give it a try before you decide you dont >> like it. >> -- >> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >> Micheal Mims >> SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! >> mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >> Irvine Ca >> Fax 949.856.9417 >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:17:10 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: [Fwd: Newbie Lurker] Joa Welcome KR is simular, some us a VW engine. If your interested their is a new Volksplane Forum, go to my Airplane Web site at http://public.surfree.com/snakeskin/ and scroll down to it. After getting into it you can save the URL in your favorite so you don't have to enter thru my site. I am not building a Volksplane but I put the forum up for my friend Fritz who is. I am interested in the KR as no 1 and a couple others. Don't plan to start building anything tell 1999 but as always with my hobbies I never stop at just one. Gordon Ross Youngblood wrote: > Joa, > I forwarded this to the list... post krnet posts to > krnet-l@teleport.com > krnet@krnet.org is just me > (Sorry for the confusion, but it would cost $100/mo to > have krnet-l@krnet.org so we use krnet-l@teleport.com > instead) > -- Ross > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Newbie Lurker > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:50:48 -0700 > From: "Joa" > To: > > Hey all you KRNET folks, > > Thought I'd pipe up and introduce myself. Name's Joa Harrison and I live in > Redmond OR and work with a company that makes Titanium investment castings > for the aerospace industry. > > Sorry to say I'm just a lurker and am not building a KR (yet anyways) but > plan to start building a VP-2 and modify it some later. Actually, and don't > flame me for this, but from what I've seen of KRs they're pretty similar in > many ways to the VPs (yaa, I know, you'll all chip in and let me know all > the ways they're *different*!) > > Anyway, couple of questions... > > I've heard of wing skins offered for the KRs. Are these precured and gel > coated (no painting required)? If so how well does the precured glass > adhere to the wood/foam? > > Also, I get digest mode, is there any way to not get all the detailed > "sender/receiver/yaddayadda" info but only the messages? > > Thanks and I look forward to learning more all the time (just found a KR > builder here in Redmond so am anxious to see his progress.) > > Joa > > Oh, all you builders in Eugene/Corvallis area, I'll be in your neck of the > woods this weekend (Oct 3-4) and would love to see your progess and chat. > Any of you willing? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: KR: tail post cuts Thanks to all who responded with ideas on the tail post. This is one of the areas that the plans are weak. The picture in the print shows the post tapered but if done that way, the rudder will end up wider than the end of the fuselage. I have all three pieces cut for the rudder posts and if I had the foresight, I would have waited for the sides to be pushed close to the required dimension to visualize the way things end up. The spruce stock that came for these parts was two inches wide and I could have used this to end up with the tail post dimension of 1.750 at the rear side of the post and tapered it to fit the joint. I hope this experience is useful to those who may follow in the wood working stage. Mike Mims has made a suggestion that I'm going to use and that is to widen the post with 5/8 stock and widen the plywood overlay as well then trim to fit. Thanks John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:47:04 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce I was doing some research and came across some good wood info on a Cele*ity site. Looks like (from their numbers) that Hemlock has about 17% more strength while only 7% more weight for an overall 9% better strength to weight ratio than Spruce. Plus Hemlock is available locally and if hand selected to AC43-13 standards should be aircraft quality. So what are the disadvantages to using Hemlock? Joa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:37:25 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Tail post joint At 23:07 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >I'm joining the sides to the tail post now. What i'm seeing is the angle >formed by the sides and the gap in the joint at the straight tail post. If I >taper the tail post to meet the sides in the angle >presented by the two sides meeting at the post, I will no longer be able to >maintain the 1.75 in width at the rear of the fusalage. >What has everyone else done to make up this joint? >John Roffey > > John, I built a jig to clamp the longerons and to provide a sawing guide to cut them to the proper angle. Click on the Builder's Tips link on my web page for a picture and description. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:50:58 -0700 From: Robert Maniss Subject: KR: RR Pre-mold Fuel Tank I've decided to do something a little different on my fuel system so I have a surplus header tank (RR Pre-mold for KR-2) that I'm not going to use. If anyone wants it I'm asking $75 and will ship. It includes the filler neck, etc. Bob Maniss ejrem@worldnet.att.net Tel. 915-672-2117 FAX 915-676-2498 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:22:31 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tail post joint I bought 5/8"x 2"x48" spruce for the rudder. I plan to taper it from to inches at the top longeron to 1.75" at the bottom. In this way I can enlarge the rudder rib a little bit too and have a larger rudder. I am in the rudder and elevator too small on KR2S gang:-) Haris PS: I have four spare rudder spar pieces left (5/8"x 2"x48") which I planned to sell and give the proceeds to KR-Net. Let me know if you if you want to redo you rudder spars. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:24:35 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tail post joint In a message dated 98-10-07 23:39:01 EDT, you write: << Yep wished I would have done it that way but, >> Do not feel so bad. My KR will be the 'little' brother of yours;-) Just keep good ideas coming. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:31:59 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: T4 VW-Cheap! In a message dated 98-10-08 10:46:58 EDT, you write: << Sounds like a good idea. Doeas anyone know what year Rabbit has this system?? >> I have limited knowledge about engines but am on my second Golf (85 and 96). and my brother had a 1980 Sicrocco. Both the Sicrocco and 85 Golf had exaclctly similar looking systems. So, I would hazerd a Guess that any late 70's early 80's fuel injected VW will be OK. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:41:38 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR control cables In a message dated 98-10-08 19:43:12 EDT, you write: << > >Can someone confirm the specs on the control cables. My set of plans don't > have any reference. Is 1/8 inch, 7x19 galvanized standard? >> A lot of information about KR is in Wicks Catalog. They list all types of stuff that is needed for the kit. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:44:55 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Wood Kit At 03:52 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >>I'm looking for good stuff and good price.<<<<< There is no such thing! I read in the journal that lumber prices are less tahn half of what they were last year but from some weird reason AS&S still wants $800 for a spruce kit! Humm,............ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:50:16 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce At 07:47 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: Plus Hemlock is available locally and if hand selected to AC43-13 standards should be aircraft quality. > >So what are the disadvantages to using Hemlock? > You answered your own question,... "and if hand selected to AC43-13 standards". Unfortunately most people don't feel comfortable doing this nor do they have the proper knowledge so they rely on AS&S or Wicks to sell them Aircraft Grade Spruce at ridiculous prices. Even after reading a lot on this subject I am not sure I would feel comfortable selecting wood for my spars. I wouldn't have any problems selecting my own wood for everything else (there is some GREAT clear doug fir available here) but spars,...not!. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:28:16 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tail post joint I experienced the same problem when I built my Kr. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:01:57 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Maybe its just me (and my mechanical engineering education) but IMHO anybody that has the intelligence and desire to build their own plane should be able to follow specs on wood selection. Sure there might be a few pitch pockets you can't see but from what I know they don't X-Ray aircraft spruce either. Guess I figure that if I find a nice piece of wood that looks "perfect" grainwise on the outside then I'm pretty confident that those rings grew in a pretty controlled way and the entire piece is homogeneous (enough for FAA specs anyway.) Plus, if I'm worried I can always rip the stock, inspect for defects, and then laminate a spar. Still interested in any negatives with Hemlock (like splintering, compression vs tensile strengths, etc.) that folks on the list know about. Thanks! Joa >You answered your own question,... "and if hand selected to AC43-13 >standards". Unfortunately most people don't feel comfortable doing this nor >do they have the proper knowledge so they rely on AS&S or Wicks to sell them >Aircraft Grade Spruce at ridiculous prices. Even after reading a lot on >this subject I am not sure I would feel comfortable selecting wood for my >spars. I wouldn't have any problems selecting my own wood for everything >else (there is some GREAT clear doug fir available here) but spars,...not!. >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:44:45 -0700 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Re: Hemlock vs Spruce Hi Joa, Stay with the spruce. The name of the game is light. BRGDS Marty - -----Original Message----- From: Joa To: KRNET-L@teleport.com Date: 08 October, 1998 19:45 Subject: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce >I was doing some research and came across some good wood info on a Cele*ity >site. Looks like (from their numbers) that Hemlock has about 17% more >strength while only 7% more weight for an overall 9% better strength to >weight ratio than Spruce. Plus Hemlock is available locally and if hand >selected to AC43-13 standards should be aircraft quality. > >So what are the disadvantages to using Hemlock? > >Joa > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:22:33 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Wood Kit At 10:44 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 03:52 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > >>>I'm looking for good stuff and good price.<<<<< > > >There is no such thing! I read in the journal that lumber prices are less >tahn half of what they were last year but from some weird reason AS&S still >wants $800 for a spruce kit! Humm,............ We have a speciality lumber supplier here in Charlotte NC. I'm going to check with these folks and see if maybe I can do better on price. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:30:14 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce I've worked with wood all my life, (grew up in a lumber yard), and feel I can do as good a job as is required in selecting proper wood. I also have a couple of articles from old EAA manuals that tell how to select wood. As far as spars go. I plan on laminating them anyway so any small off grain will cancel out. WD At 10:50 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 07:47 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > Plus Hemlock is available locally and if hand selected to AC43-13 standards >should be aircraft quality. >> >>So what are the disadvantages to using Hemlock? >> > >You answered your own question,... "and if hand selected to AC43-13 >standards". Unfortunately most people don't feel comfortable doing this nor >do they have the proper knowledge so they rely on AS&S or Wicks to sell them >Aircraft Grade Spruce at ridiculous prices. Even after reading a lot on >this subject I am not sure I would feel comfortable selecting wood for my >spars. I wouldn't have any problems selecting my own wood for everything >else (there is some GREAT clear doug fir available here) but spars,...not!. >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:35:13 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce While we are on the subject of wood, which way do you run the grain for; longerns? crossways of top-to-bottom? spars? crossways or top-to-bottom? Does it matter?? WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:19:06 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > While we are on the subject of wood, which way do you run the grain for; > longerns? crossways of top-to-bottom? > spars? crossways or top-to-bottom? The standard reference material seems to indicate that it does not make any difference. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:27:35 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: Wood Kit The local lumber store has no reduced prices either. Lucky for us the engines don't run on Milk. Gordon Micheal Mims wrote: > At 03:52 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >>I'm looking for good stuff and good price.<<<<< > > There is no such thing! I read in the journal that lumber prices are less > tahn half of what they were last year but from some weird reason AS&S still > wants $800 for a spruce kit! Humm,............ > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:45:31 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce I would think you run grain longways on spars, Take a piece of wood 1" x 1" x 15" with grain run up and down and try to break it. Should break easy. Now try it with the grain running longways. hard to break. Tooth picks are run longways for a reason. Aslo match sticks. Gordon Donald Reid wrote: > Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > > While we are on the subject of wood, which way do you run the grain for; > > longerns? crossways of top-to-bottom? > > spars? crossways or top-to-bottom? > > The standard reference material seems to indicate that it does not make > any difference. > > -- > Don Reid > Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com > KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:19:31 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Gordon Brimhall wrote: > > I would think you run grain longways on spars, Take a piece of wood 1" x 1" x 15" with grain run up and down and try to break it.>> I think they were talking about grain orientation, whether the fibers should be vertical, horizontal etc. when viewed from the end. We talked about this in great detail about a year or more ago and found out from more than one source that grain orientation does not matter. Obviously our spars have to have the grain running from end to end cuz there aint no spruce trees that are 15 foot thick! :o) - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:46:56 EDT From: JKM001@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Laminte the spars with what???? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:09:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Bennett Subject: KR: Sanford VW conversion We are looking at a partially complete KR2. The airplane has a VW conversion by Sanford Aircraft out of North Carolina. Does anybody have any info about this engine. The only Sanford aircraft outfit I can find says they never did a VW conversion. It is touted as being 1834CC and 70HP. Any info would be appreciated. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:28:21 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Oh' Well back to my Boat building book and the wood chapter, The Pilgrams cut down all the 15' wide trees to build solid Wheels for their wagons. Gordon Micheal Mims wrote: > Gordon Brimhall wrote: > > > > I would think you run grain longways on spars, Take a piece of wood 1" x 1" x 15" with grain run up and down and try to break it.>> > > I think they were talking about grain orientation, whether the fibers > should be vertical, horizontal etc. when viewed from the end. We talked > about this in great detail about a year or more ago and found out from > more than one source that grain orientation does not matter. Obviously > our spars have to have the grain running from end to end cuz there aint > no spruce trees that are 15 foot thick! :o) > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:34:36 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce JKM001@aol.com wrote: > > Laminte the spars with what???? Uhh,.....glue, yeah thats it,...glue! T-88, West Systems, Elmers, well maybe not Elmers but you get the idea. Almost all KR spars are laminated these days because of the lack of spruce large enough to make one piece spar caps. Don't hesitate,..laminate! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:44:33 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce At 12:46 PM 10/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >Laminte the spars with what???? I plan on using T-88 epoxy glue.. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:15:18 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Have any of you used MAS epoxies? I have a friend who is a professional boat builder, and who use to build planes professionally, who swears by it over West, System3, etc. He uses it for *all* his gluing, laminating, etc. Joa - -----Original Message----- From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 5:26 PM Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce >At 12:46 PM 10/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Laminte the spars with what???? > >I plan on using T-88 epoxy glue.. > >WD >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >Email:support@sestar.net > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:02:20 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce At 06:15 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Have any of you used MAS epoxies? I have a friend who is a professional >boat builder, and who use to build planes professionally, who swears by it >over West, System3, etc. He uses it for *all* his gluing, laminating, etc. > >Joa Never heard of it. Where can i get some info? WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:44:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: CIS and CIS-E sources I ran across a little info on what years of VW use what type of fuel injection. The lighter CIS-E air flow sensor is tempting, despite the complexity (but obvious advantage) of being able to regulate fuel pressure (mixture) from the cockpit. CIS: Rabbit 77-84, 8VScirocco 77-88, Jetta 80-84, Convertible 80-89, Pick UP 80-83. CIS-E fuel system: Golf GTI 85-87, Jetta GLI 85-87, 16V Scirocco 87 CIS-lambda fuel system8 valve: Golf 85-87, Jetta 85-87 Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:49:52 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Tail post joint My tail post is going to be 2" inches at the base tapered to ?. haven't decided what width to go with. My fuse I think is a little wider than the KR-2S plans. John F. Esch Salem, OR KR-2SSW HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-10-07 23:39:01 EDT, you write: > > << Yep wished I would have done it that way but, >> > > Do not feel so bad. My KR will be the 'little' brother of yours;-) > > Just keep good ideas coming. > > Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:56:03 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce I have a brochure- 1-888-MAS-EPOXY The good thing about this stuff is you can mix *any* of the hardeners with *any* of the resins to give you almost any combination of working times, blushes, etc. (IE you can mix fast and slow hardener to make medium, etc., these in turn can be mixed with fast or slow resin or a combination.) From what I know you can't do this with West, etc. This stuff is made for the hard core boatbuilder and is very water proof. Also has the thinnest viscocity of any of the epoxies and can be used for fiberglassing, laminating, etc. Hope I'm not trying to sell this stuff (I have absolutely no affiliation) I'm just digging for pros and cons. Joa - -----Original Message----- From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 6:43 PM Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce >At 06:15 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Have any of you used MAS epoxies? I have a friend who is a professional >>boat builder, and who use to build planes professionally, who swears by it >>over West, System3, etc. He uses it for *all* his gluing, laminating, etc. >> >>Joa > >Never heard of it. Where can i get some info? > >WD >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >Email:support@sestar.net > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:15:27 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: Full depth Spars. Jean Peters of Western Aircraft Supplies has 2 1/2" deep spar material in his warehouse has quoted $310 US + Shipping for all 12 pieces. He will also taper the outboard spars. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:17:14 -0700 From: GEORGE ROBERTSON Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce At 07:47 PM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >I was doing some research and came across some good wood info on a Cele*ity >site. Looks like (from their numbers) that Hemlock has about 17% more >strength while only 7% more weight for an overall 9% better strength to >weight ratio than Spruce. Plus Hemlock is available locally and if hand >selected to AC43-13 standards should be aircraft quality. > >So what are the disadvantages to using Hemlock? > >Joa >hi joa the problem with modern wood is that the foresters are growing super high yield trees with 3-4 times the annual growth of an old growth tree.these trees have wide annual rings, some as much as 1/4-3/8" per year.this wood has only about 2/3-1/2 the strength of old growth. the ac43-13 standards call for >16 annual rings/inch. i think what you will find in lumber yards nowdays is high yield trees. i would stick with one of the major suppliers. i found western aircraft supplies to be very good. george > ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #159 *****************************