From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 7:42 AM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #164 krnet-l-digest Thursday, October 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 164 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:21:11 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: Skinning (was Re: KR: Re:Fiberglass question) What would be the recommended length and spacing of staples should be? John F. Esch Salem, Or WARRON GRAY wrote: > I also skinned sides after wife helped with staples , but i used a > thing > called "C" clamps with small pieces of wood between the teeth to keep > the > skins safe. Warron, in flat lawdy dale fl. > -----Original Message----- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 9:05 AM > Subject: Skinning (was Re: KR: Re:Fiberglass question) > > >At 04:50 AM 10/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>The only draw back I found to skinning the boat structure assembled > >>was that during the stapling I had to had the wife back the spruce > up with > >a bucking bar otherwise there was too much spring in the wood and the > > >staples wouldn't drive home. > >> > >>Dale Baldwin, KR-2 > >> > > > >I also skinned the boat after building a spruce skeleton and I agree, > > >applying enough pressure was the biggest problem. I thickened my t88 > with > a > >little flox to keep it all from running off during the long process. > I > >ended up stapling and then going over all the staples with a tack > hammer to > >drive them home. This of course put a dent in the plywood that I > later > >filled with micro. > >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > >Micheal Mims > >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > >Irvine Ca > >Fax 949.856.9417 > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:13:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Cowling David Moore wrote: > > Mike, > The T-18 was only 40 inches wide (about the same as your KR2S) is it > possible you could use a T-18 cowl? Or was it wrapped Alum.? > > Dave Moore > I have a T18 nose bowl but I think the for the most part the rest was made from aluminum. Actually the amount of work involved making the cowling from the nose bowl back is not too bad. I plan to give it a shot in the next week or two. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:17:02 -0700 From: rahuman@swbell.net Subject: Re: KR: Cowling Micheal Mims wrote: > > Cowling heads, I am ready to start carving a cowling for the stump puller. > I have an interesting dilemma in that I have an engine that is wider than > the firewall! So my plan was to build a cowling ala T-18. You can go to > the URL below to see a T18. Basically the cheeks are open at the rear to > allow cooling air to exit. This seems to be my only option short of making > a coke bottle shaped cowling and I think that would look gross! Any thoughts > on this idea? > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/t182.jpg > > PS I already have the nose bowl (forward 1/3 of cowling) you see in the > picture. I need to build the rest from scratch. > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mike - as I understand it - John Thorp really knew his business and the side cheeks were part of the grand design - it's a low pressure area that sucks the air out of the cowling - probably can get by with a smaller outlet area. The articles I read years ago described the T-18 as being a prime example of "area rule" design in that he knew where the pressure areas were and how they interacted with one another. I think that exhausting the cooling on the sides will work very well for the KR. Only draw back - instead of a dirty belly - you could end up with dirty sides if anything leaks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:18:12 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Contact List Available Greetings Folks! I've been working on a database of the folks who've attended KR Gatherings from 1988 through the present, and have it about finished. I'm missing the data from 1997, but I hope to get that from Randy Stein soon. I can prepare a tailored list of folks in your area who are building or interested in building, all you have to do is tell me what state(s) you want listings for. If you want the whole thing, I can send that too. Once the database is complete, I'll post it on my web page for download. Send me a private email with your request, and I'll get it out to you as soon as I can. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:31:23 -0400 From: Allan Horne Subject: Re: KR: Re:Stapling skins "Wayne DeLisle Sr." wrote: > Been there done that, with another project I did a few years ago. > > My feeling is that it's hard work drivine 5 or 6 thousand staples by hand. > > For twine, I intend to use plastic binder twine that is used in hay and > straw bailing > these days. The stuff is dirt cheap and really tough. > > WD > > At 06:25 PM 10/16/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Wayne , i used an electric stapler and a hand stapler. The electric one > >worked great but it was real fun trying to get them out had to make a thin > >tool to grab the sob,s without ruining skin. tried a string under staple as > >i tacked in place but the material i used was to weak to pull out staples . > >maybe a stronger string would work but it was to late by then Warron > > > Wayne DeLisle Sr. > Email:support@sestar.net I used thin upholstery staples, and a air stapler.With a regulator you could adjust depth of staple.Also used scrap plywood strips and spruce instead of string. Worked great! With a staple remover you could get under the scrap wood and pry it up remove the staples.A little vinegar on the staple holes and they disappeared. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:09:44 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: KR: staples Howdy Was wondering what length and spacing of staples are needed to glue the skins on. John F. Esch KR-2SSW Salem, OR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:32:07 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Stapling skins and West Sytems In a message dated 98-10-19 01:17:13 EDT, you write: << All I have to say about stapling the skins is to just get a stapler and some safety wire and staple those skins on!! I had no trouble stapling my skins on after framing up the boat. K.I.S.S. The staples work and it is a cheap, simple way to do it. >> I totally agree. I was able to staple both sides in three evenings of after work effort. It took me about four hours to take all the staples out as the string and later SS wire I used was not strong enough. I bought a 0.25" wood chisel and gently pryed all the staples out. Piece of cake. After sanding I can hardly see staple marks. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:43:59 -0600 From: Wayne and Kathy Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling Jim Sellars wrote: > > Mike; You will recall that I asked you for your ideas about quick release > attachments for the cowling, and at the time you were unsure what I was > talking about. I now know the name of the things, Dzuz cowling attaches. > The ones I got from RR are about .6 of an inch deep, so I was concerned > about the thickness of the cowling and how people were making the thing go > together. But back to your question, there is no doubt but that the skill > levels grow with this project about proportional to the needs. The cowling > was one of the toughest parts so far for me. Remember that I'm installing a > Saturn engine on mine, so I had to build from scratch a cowling like none > you've ever seen. Not bad really. It's long and narrow, rather than stubby > and horizontal, so it makes the bird look rather long nosed. There's a bump > on the bridge of this nose too, to accommadate the valve covers on that > Saturn. Interesting looking for sure. Best of luck with yours. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Date: October 18, 1998 3:18 AM > Subject: KR: Cowling > > >Cowling heads, I am ready to start carving a cowling for the stump puller. > >I have an interesting dilemma in that I have an engine that is wider than > >the firewall! So my plan was to build a cowling ala T-18. You can go to > >the URL below to see a T18. Basically the cheeks are open at the rear to > >allow cooling air to exit. This seems to be my only option short of making > >a coke bottle shaped cowling and I think that would look gross! Any > thoughts > >on this idea? > > > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/t182.jpg > > > >PS I already have the nose bowl (forward 1/3 of cowling) you see in the > >picture. I need to build the rest from scratch. > >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > >Micheal Mims > >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > >Irvine Ca > >Fax 949.856.9417 > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > dzues fastners come in many sizes (lengths) but you may want to look at camlock fastners. Just consult your Aircraft Spruce catalogue. Wayne Tokarz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:29:16 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Contact List Available At 11:18 PM 10/19/98 EDT, you wrote: >Greetings Folks! > >I've been working on a database of the folks who've attended KR Gatherings from 1988 through the present, and have it about finished. I'm missing the data from 1997, but I hope to get that from Randy Stein soon. >> Rick, remember there is still the HTML version of the database. It hasnt been updated in a while but its still out there. Check it out at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/mapframe.html Heck I guess I could update it if we have more builders that would like to be added. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Building ailerons and firewall now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:37:07 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: Skinning (was Re: KR: Re:Fiberglass question) In a message dated 98-10-19 21:25:17 EDT, you write: << What would be the recommended length and spacing of staples should be? >> I think heavy duty 1/2" chisel point (like a fang) is the best size. Although I was not able to drive them all the way through an had to use a hammer later. 2"-3" distance ought to be enough. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:54:49 CST From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: KR: Wing attach fittings G'Day Netters Item 1. As you know, I am making components for my -2S before starting the big glue jobs (fuselage and wings). I am getting ready to cut the 4130 blanks for my wing attach fittings. Before doing so, I want to ask whether any of you know of any reason for redesigning the WAFs if the new thicker wings (and thicker spars) are ready by next summer when I plan to need them. Item 2. I hate to see this epoxy argument come up again. I haven't followed the e-mail too closely, but it looks like West System is being criticized by the results of someone who did a less-than- adequate job on his own project-- or am I misjudging the situation? Rex Ellington Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:15:10 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Re:Stapling skins Been there done that, with another project I did a few years ago. My feeling is that it's hard work drivine 5 or 6 thousand staples by hand. For twine, I intend to use plastic binder twine that is used in hay and straw bailing these days. The stuff is dirt cheap and really tough. WD At 06:25 PM 10/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >Wayne , i used an electric stapler and a hand stapler. The electric one >worked great but it was real fun trying to get them out had to make a thin >tool to grab the sob,s without ruining skin. tried a string under staple as >i tacked in place but the material i used was to weak to pull out staples . >maybe a stronger string would work but it was to late by then Warron > Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:59:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Wing attach fittings On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Rex Ellington wrote: > G'Day Netters > > Item 1. As you know, I am making components for my -2S > before starting the big glue jobs (fuselage and wings). I am > getting ready to cut the 4130 blanks for my wing attach > fittings. Before doing so, I want to ask whether any of you > know of any reason for redesigning the WAFs if the new > thicker wings (and thicker spars) are ready by next summer > when I plan to need them. > > Item 2. I hate to see this epoxy argument come up again. I haven't > followed the e-mail too closely, but it looks like West System is > being criticized by the results of someone who did a less-than- > adequate job on his own project-- or am I misjudging the > situation? Dean saw unsatisfactory layups on the second hand plane he bought. I have used West epoxy for a few years on radio control models and have been very pleased with it, but, I have not done any structural tests on layups made with it. When the talk about West started again I called Gougeon Brothers, makers of West, and asked them about it. Also asked how it compared to Pro Set, their premium epoxy that Rutan uses, and they said that you can use either one for aircraft use. The only difference comes in when you post cure at elevated temperatures, Pro-Set does better then. I think some testing is in order to put this discussion to bed once and for all. I sure do like the characteristics of West epoxy and the lack of odor. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:25:17 -0300 From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling Thats what I'm talking about, Camlock fasteners. Should the material, in this case the cowling be .5 inches thick to allow for the camlock fastener from RR ? Regards: Jim - -----Original Message----- From: Wayne and Kathy To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: October 20, 1998 1:49 AM Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling >Jim Sellars wrote: >> >> Mike; You will recall that I asked you for your ideas about quick release >> attachments for the cowling, and at the time you were unsure what I was >> talking about. I now know the name of the things, Dzuz cowling attaches. >> The ones I got from RR are about .6 of an inch deep, so I was concerned >> about the thickness of the cowling and how people were making the thing go >> together. But back to your question, there is no doubt but that the skill >> levels grow with this project about proportional to the needs. The cowling >> was one of the toughest parts so far for me. Remember that I'm installing a >> Saturn engine on mine, so I had to build from scratch a cowling like none >> you've ever seen. Not bad really. It's long and narrow, rather than stubby >> and horizontal, so it makes the bird look rather long nosed. There's a bump >> on the bridge of this nose too, to accommadate the valve covers on that >> Saturn. Interesting looking for sure. Best of luck with yours. Jim >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Micheal Mims >> To: krnet-l@teleport.com >> Date: October 18, 1998 3:18 AM >> Subject: KR: Cowling >> >> >Cowling heads, I am ready to start carving a cowling for the stump puller. >> >I have an interesting dilemma in that I have an engine that is wider than >> >the firewall! So my plan was to build a cowling ala T-18. You can go to >> >the URL below to see a T18. Basically the cheeks are open at the rear to >> >allow cooling air to exit. This seems to be my only option short of making >> >a coke bottle shaped cowling and I think that would look gross! Any >> thoughts >> >on this idea? >> > >> >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/t182.jpg >> > >> >PS I already have the nose bowl (forward 1/3 of cowling) you see in the >> >picture. I need to build the rest from scratch. >> >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >> >Micheal Mims >> >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! >> >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >> >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >> >Irvine Ca >> >Fax 949.856.9417 >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > >> > >dzues fastners come in many sizes (lengths) but you may want to look at >camlock fastners. Just consult your Aircraft Spruce catalogue. > >Wayne Tokarz > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:21:05 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing attach fittings Steven Eberhart wrote: >I sure do like the characteristics of West epoxy and the lack of > odor.>>>>> Dude if it doesn't stink it will not be structurally sound! :o) In these days of litigation I can not believe the Gougeon Bros actually encourage use in aircraft. That's good news to me. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:26:26 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling Jim Sellars wrote: > > Thats what I'm talking about, Camlock fasteners. Should the material, in this case the cowling be .5 inches thick to allow for the camlock fastener>>> Personally I think cam locs and Zeus fasteners are to large and gangly looking to use on small slick homebuilts. (sorry com loc users) They are nice for access to the engine but they are sure ugly! The slick looking glass ships at my airport use countersunk screws. They use a spade bit to cut into the glass and flox a skin washer to the cowling. They rivet a anchor nut on the inside. This makes for a nice clean installation that will never wear out. PS Make sure you clamp the anchor nut in a vise and run a screw in and out to break it in before use. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:10:33 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing attach fittings In a message dated 98-10-20 01:49:03 EDT, you write: << Before doing so, I want to ask whether any of you know of any reason for redesigning the WAFs if the new thicker wings (and thicker spars) are ready by next summer when I plan to need them. >> Thicker (taller?) spars will put less stress on the WAF's so the stock ones could be used with no problems. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:19:16 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling What about just flush riveting a hinge in and pulling the pin when you want to remove the cowl? Isn't this pretty standard? Joa - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 7:25 AM Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling >Jim Sellars wrote: >> >> Thats what I'm talking about, Camlock fasteners. Should the material, in this case the cowling be .5 inches thick to allow for the camlock fastener>>> > > >Personally I think cam locs and Zeus fasteners are to large and gangly >looking to use on small slick homebuilts. (sorry com loc users) They are >nice for access to the engine but they are sure ugly! The slick looking >glass ships at my airport use countersunk screws. They use a spade bit >to cut into the glass and flox a skin washer to the cowling. They rivet >a anchor nut on the inside. This makes for a nice clean installation >that will never wear out. > >PS Make sure you clamp the anchor nut in a vise and run a screw in and >out to break it in before use. > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:23:23 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: KR: Hoop Pine Has anybody used Hoop Pine for skinning surfaces and for turtledecks, etc.? How does it work. The stuff from Riteco in TX is supposed to be pretty darn waterproof. How does the weight of the pine compare to other 1/16" or thinner ply (like 1 or 1.5 mm Baltic Birch?) Thanks folks! Joa "If you aren't missing a plane now and then you're spending way too much time at the airport." Burt Rutan, Oshkosh '98 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:27:05 -0400 From: "WARRON GRAY" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling tHATS HOW MY LOWER ENGINE COWLING IS DONE WITH PIANO HINGE. tAKES ME ABOUT 5 SECONDS TO DROP THE LOWER COWLING. i USE NUT PLATES ON THE TOP COWLING ,THAT TAKES ME 2-3 MINUTES TO REMOVE. SO FAR IT IS WORKING WELL SINCE I MUST HAVE REMOVED THE COWLING ABOUT A 1000 TIMES FOR ENGINE TESTING ETC. WARRON - -----Original Message----- From: Joa To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 2:20 PM Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling >What about just flush riveting a hinge in and pulling the pin when you want >to remove the cowl? Isn't this pretty standard? > >Joa > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Micheal Mims >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 7:25 AM >Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling > > >>Jim Sellars wrote: >>> >>> Thats what I'm talking about, Camlock fasteners. Should the material, in >this case the cowling be .5 inches thick to allow for the camlock >fastener>>> >> >> >>Personally I think cam locs and Zeus fasteners are to large and gangly >>looking to use on small slick homebuilts. (sorry com loc users) They are >>nice for access to the engine but they are sure ugly! The slick looking >>glass ships at my airport use countersunk screws. They use a spade bit >>to cut into the glass and flox a skin washer to the cowling. They rivet >>a anchor nut on the inside. This makes for a nice clean installation >>that will never wear out. >> >>PS Make sure you clamp the anchor nut in a vise and run a screw in and >>out to break it in before use. >> >> >>-- >>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >>Micheal Mims >>SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! >>mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >>Irvine Ca >>Fax 949.856.9417 >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:05:38 -0700 From: john bouyea Subject: KR: FYI: Upcoming kr2s.timberline.com off-line period From October 21st through October 27th, the kr2s archives server will be down for preventative maintenance and relocation to a new physical facility. (Ah, finally, a generator backed up power source!) Exact up time is yet unknown but no later than the 27th. I will notify the list when we return. Until then, keep building! bou johnbou@timberline.com John Bouyea PC/ HW Analyst Timberline Software ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:48:09 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Wing attach fittings At 11:10 AM 10/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-10-20 01:49:03 EDT, you write: > ><< Before doing so, I want to ask whether any of you > know of any reason for redesigning the WAFs if the new > thicker wings (and thicker spars) are ready by next summer > when I plan to need them. >> > >Thicker (taller?) spars will put less stress on the WAF's so the stock ones >could be used with no problems. > >Haris > I don't think so. I believe that you can use the WAFs with the thicker wing but not because of the thicker spar. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:41:07 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling At 07:26 AM 10/20/98 -0700, you wrote: I think cam locs and Zeus fasteners are to large and gangly >looking to use on small slick homebuilts. (sorry com loc users) They are >nice for access to the engine but they are sure ugly! The slick looking >glass ships at my airport use countersunk screws. They use a spade bit >to cut into the glass and flox a skin washer to the cowling. They rivet >a anchor nut on the inside. This makes for a nice clean installation >that will never wear out. > >PS Make sure you clamp the anchor nut in a vise and run a screw in and >out to break it in before use. > >Micheal Mims I used a tap through the nutplates to "break in" the nutplates. Remove just enough locking thread to allow easy threading of the screws. Works Great, last a long time! Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:14:24 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: staples I used 1/2" and .042 SS wire; worked like a charm... John Bouyea kr2 - on the gear kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon > >Was wondering what length and spacing of staples are needed to glue the >skins on. > >John F. Esch >KR-2SSW >Salem, OR > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:15:14 EDT From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Jeff Scott's saga KRNetHeads: Jeff Scott wrote me offline thanking me for the 0-200 for-sale post. No biggie, but what followed in his E-mail was a good tale that I thought others may benefit from. Jeff OK this, so here it is. Enjoy, Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:53:50 EDT From: DClarke351@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Jeff Scott's saga Jeff I was at the Las Cruces A.P. Sunday and saw your plane and thought it looked familier. Where you at the Perry KR flyin? I looked around but did not see what looked like an owner anywhere. This Don Clarke here in El Paso. I drove to Perry because the Feds would not let me out of my envelope until I fly off 40 hrs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:40:25 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: KRnet shirts. Guys, I just got my KRnet shirt from Oscar..........................it is some kinda shirt, really nice. If you haven't ordered yours yet, you better hope he has some left because when you see it, you'll want one. How's that for an endorsement..........................Now Oscar, will you send me my rebate :-). Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:30:46 EDT From: SLIMPIDLIN@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling Bobby M. I never got to see under your hood at Perry,so would like to know ,is your starter on top in your tri gear?What starter are you using?and if it is on top,how did you get around your motor mount? did you cut that piece of tubing out and re-weld in another curved piece? I would like to balance my wheels n tires, I think a guy(or gal) can use those stick on weights for my mains which are aluminum, but my nose gear is one of those nylon ones ,anyone out there know what the skinny is on what to put on them?I just dont think stick ons will stick to nylon. Garry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:22:28 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Re: staples Cool thanks John! What spacing did ya use? John F. Esch John Bouyea wrote: > I used 1/2" and .042 SS wire; worked like a charm... > > John Bouyea > kr2 - on the gear > kr2s - building the spars > Hillsboro, Oregon > > > > >Was wondering what length and spacing of staples are needed to glue > the > >skins on. > > > >John F. Esch > >KR-2SSW > >Salem, OR > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:35:15 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Re: Cowling At 04:30 PM 10/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >Bobby M. > I never got to see under your hood at Perry,so would like to know ,is your >starter on top in your tri gear?What starter are you using?and if it is on >top,how did you get around your motor mount? did you cut that piece of tubing >out and re-weld in another curved piece? Garry I never did take the cowling of at Perry, OK. I should have. It's the best part of my airplane, or at least, that's the way I treat it. The starter I have on my revmaster VW is a gear driven Subaru starter with an adapter plate from Dan Deihl. I threw away the Revmaster starter. The starter is located at bottom of the engine. For reliability and piece of mind this is one of the best things that I ever did to my KR after it was completed. Contact Dan Deihl to get the adapter plate and list of Subaru starters that will work for you. I made no changes to my Revmaster motor mount, but the starter may not have cleared the firewall if I had not already put 1" spacers between the motor mount and the engine. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 1998 15:23:00 +0300 From: "Lempola Esko" Subject: KR: New airfoil? Hello KRnetters! Have there been any progress in testing the new airfoil=3F I haven't heard= any news about that for a loooong time. There haven't been any progress in my project lately. Mostly because I still work 115miles from home, and second (acceptable) reason is that I'm at last in final stag= es to get my Pilot Licence. Only few Xcountry fligths and the the written exam by FCAA (drop= the C and you know what I mean). Unfortunately it's already autumn here and the= days are getting short, so only time one can fly those fligts are weekends, and then it's usually rain= y! Best regards Esko Lempola mailto:esko.lempola@icl.fi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:13:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: New airfoil? On 22 Oct 1998, Lempola Esko wrote: > Hello KRnetters! > > Have there been any progress in testing the new airfoil? I haven't heard any > news about > that for a loooong time. > [snip] > Esko Lempola A lot has been happening behind the scenes. THe wind tunnel tests were completed this summer and Troy Petteway (see Sport Aviation article Sept. 1995 "A Couple of KR's") is re-winging his airplane with the new 16% airfoil. Due to business committments, his progress hasn't been as rapid as we would have liked. Coordinates have not been published by the University pending successful test flying of Troy's airplane. Several sets of building templates have been released to builders that were at the spar building stage and who needed the information to continue but release was with the understanding that there may have to be changes if we found out anything unexpected in the test flying phase. There are two different wing configurations possible with the new airfoils. One is a constant thickness 16% wing that can use the stock spars and a 18% root with 15% tip that requires thicker spars. In both cases the incidence angle is reduced from 3 1/2 degrees to 1 degree at the root. So, if you have already bonded in your spars the rear spar will need to be cut free and raised to yield the 1 degree incidence. If you haven't bonded in your spars and plan to use the new airfoils wait until we have the test flying data before you bond the spars to the fuselage. As a side note, Ashok spent the summer working for Bert Rutan at Scaled Composites. As part of his work there he designed the airfoils for the new Boomerang II. Very impressive addition to his resume if you ask me. As has always been the case, all that contributed to the airfoil fund will receive full size building templates of the new airfoils sized for the KR-2 wing as soon as the test flying is completed. Troy thinks that he will have his airplane flying yet this year so we should be getting close to having the test flying results we have been waiting for. THis project has taken longer than we would have liked but the results hopefully will be worth the wait. As new events happen, I will keep the KRnetters up to date. We would love to see Troy and his airplane at Sun 'n Fun so all can see the new wing and its effect on handling and performance. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:27:32 -0400 From: Tim Key Subject: KR: 10-22-98 I have a KR project for sale: Tub is complete and on gear with Center spars installed and tail feathers 90% Main Spars Complete The Wing mount brackets are finished Have Canopy Have an aluminum Experimental VW engine mount Have extra epoxies and glues Have some AN hardware Some other stuff too $1,000 obo Tim Key Orlando, FL timkey@gdi.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:25:16 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Sneaky >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:07:36 -0700 >From: Micheal Mims >Only time will tell but I remember telling my >wife I plan to build a plane and it would cost $10k to $15k and the >cost would be spread out over a 3 or 4 year period Jeez, dont ever mention those figures publicly, If she ever saw that I'm really done for. Mine is going to be built for $2-3K! ;-) Rich Parker ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:48:12 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Panel Planner >More ot the point, I'd like the panel planner since I am working on the >panel at this time. My KR2SXL is really large (44" cabin width). I can't >use standard premade parts and have to build everything from scratch. Wag Aero has a Grumman Traveller panel that will fit for $11. at that price its disposable if it doesnt work. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:06:08 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: KR3 Interesting = >thing is, the plans include a brochure for the kr3, an amphibious kr2. = >Anyone now what became of this plane, were any built, plans ever = >offered? I'd like to see pics for the KR-3 and amphib. Can you put them up on a web page or forward them to me or someone else to put up? Rich Parker ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:41:38 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: Skinning (was Re: KR: Re:Fiberglass question) >From: HAshraf@aol.com >Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:37:07 EDT >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: Skinning (was Re: KR: Re:Fiberglass question) >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >In a message dated 98-10-19 21:25:17 EDT, you write: > ><< What would be the recommended length and spacing of staples should be? >> > >I think heavy duty 1/2" chisel point (like a fang) is the best size. Although >I was not able to drive them all the way through an had to use a hammer later. > >2"-3" distance ought to be enough. > >Haris I beleive the manual reads every inch. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #164 *****************************