From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:14 AM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #182 krnet-l-digest Friday, November 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 182 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:04:05 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: KR: Gee another post from a year ago! <<<<< Reply-To:krnet-l@teleport.com>>>>>>>> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:44:31 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Props is props? NOT! Mike Mims wrote: > > Well now we know why it vibrated eh? One blade was increasing in pitch > and the other was staying flat. - ---------------- Net heads: There is a very interesting article in this months Custom Planes about props and there vibrations. If you wonder why a crank shaft breaks just read this article. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field - ------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:20:50 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs Tom Andersen wrote: <<< Unfortunately, they have not caught on in aviation because the aircraft engines can't take it except for normalizing. The structure of the average aircooled engine is too weak for the higher cylinder pressures and crankshaft torque which can be obtained with turbocharging.>>> Well actually that's not true,....I think what you will find if you look back to the days when the gasoline piston engine was king, almost ALL of them were either turbocharged (yes with boost) or supercharged (again with boost) or both. (I am talking 400hp or more here) Certified type engines are incredibly overbuilt. What killed the development of a better piston turbo-supercharged engine was a thing called the TURBOPROP! There just isn't a demand for a sophisticated, high HP to weight ratio, water-cooled, light aircraft piston engine. Anything that needs more than 400 hp is powered by a P&W PT6 or a Garrett Grenade (and almost anything with a profit margin needs more than 400 hp). And sadly the demand for engines below 400 hp is almost nonexistent so why bother? I have heard Continental is developing a turbocharged 2 stroke diesel that will someday replace the engines in the 150 to 300 hp range but who knows when that will become reality? As far as running boost versus normalizing I think you can run the Piper Seneca up to 42 inches and I think that's a little more than just normalizing! :o) I think its up to eXperimentors to tinker with car engines and make them work in airplanes because the business world just doesn't see a market. Even when a eXperimentor comes along and builds a nice powerplant from an autoengine they charge prices that are nothing short of ridiculous. I hate to say it but anyone who would pay $10k for a 1983 Subaru engine should have their head examined! Heck the whole car didn't cost that much in 1983. I look at this just the way most people (unjustifiably in my book) look at certified type engines. Every time you turn around you hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o) So what if you bought a C85 or an O-200 with only 500 hours left on it? Heck for most of us that's about 5 years worth of flying. You are right about one thing and that is at one time I was all fired up about a turbo Subaru or even a VW then I thought back to something I told myself when I first started. I said self "If your gona build this flying machine and haul your kids and your wife around in it don't go bolting a car engine to the front of it". So far I have to say going with a certified type engine is without a doubt the best way to go. I don't have to re-engineer anything! I buy a part and bolt it on because it is MADE to go in an airplane and not a car. If I have to pay a little more for piece of mind then so be it. Yes I have begun to collect spare parts for if and when I crack a cylinder but I would do that no mater what engine I was running. Oh yeah, before I forget. I don't think there is a source for Posa carbs except the used market. Also just because I had to make the choice that using a certified engine was the way to go for ME doesn't mean I think its for everyone. We all do what we have to do to make the dream come true. I fly behind a VW all the time and I like it. But in MY plane I wanted something else. Sitting behind (or beside) the drone of a Lycoming or Continental for over 4000hrs with out so much as a hiccup may have helped me with that decision. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:34:50 EST From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy For Fuel Tanks In a message dated 98-11-09 17:26:01 EST, you write: << They are off a Piper Cherokee 140, and hey I still have the steerable nose gear if I need it! >> Save it. You might need it as a tail wheel :-) Haris 'hit while a guy is down' Ashraf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:47:46 EST From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Sides In a message dated 98-11-10 11:28:25 EST, you write: << Dude quit trying to talk yourself out of building that airplane and just glue it >> Bob, I think Mike is right just build the thing. You are better off gluing the sides on the frame prior to assembly. Lay them flat on the table and use as much pressure you can so to get a good joint. If you need help I'll come to Cable to help you and harass all those RV builders. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:53:42 EST From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Sides In a message dated 98-11-10 20:44:43 EST, you write: << Hey you should come out to the hanger and look at Haris boat, he is in the process of bending his sides as we speak! >> No I am sitting at home reading e-mails. I spent last week in Tucson (No midweek progress). However spar material is in. If I can get it out from customs tomorrow may be I''ll start on spars over the week end and do gussetting along sides. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:47:13 -0700 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: KR: Re: first flights On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:06:36 -0600 "A.Doherty" writes: > >Might as well throw me experiences in on this! >The first flight went fine without problems.......this was with a tri gear. >I have since gone back to a tail dragger and find that the biggest >problem is in the take off. >To date I have managed three flights, all with full aft on the stick until about >45 mph.At this point the plane is ready to fly, so I ease up on the stick and am >flying. I need immediate right rudder to counter the torque. >I've tried lifting the tail before this speed, and on two occasions turned 90 >degrees to the left, and off the runway!!!!!!! This is scary! I can't seem to >jump on right rudder fast enough to counter the torque, with this method. >Any ideas on this???? > >Landing doesn't seem to be a problem. Approach at 65 and the plane seems to >stay in the grove all the way to the numbers. > If I remember right, Al has a reduced Soob on the front of his KR. The prop rotation is the same as on my continental. I'll toss in my 2 cents on this issue. I found that with the Continental in my KR I had to use full right rudder and keep bumping the right brake during takeoff roll to keep it on the runway. What was happening is that I was turning around at the end of the runway and wasn't getting my full swivel tailwheel locked in. Once I made it a habit to make sure the tailwheel was locked in before I started my takeoff roll, the problem went away. I keep the tail down until I see 40 mph indicated, them lift the tail. At that point the rudder is more than adequate. The need for right tailwheel steering during takeoff roll is why I have a shorter chain to the tailwheel pull spring on the right side. Regards, Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:17:29 -0500 From: "WARRON GRAY" Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs I had the best training experience of my life when o-200 blew a jug off at 300 hours, it was my final cross country as a student. if that was gonna happen i figured may as well go to auto conversion soob Warron - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:27 PM Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs >Tom Andersen wrote: ><<< Unfortunately, they have not caught on in aviation because the >aircraft engines can't take it except for normalizing. The structure of >the average aircooled engine is too weak for the higher cylinder >pressures and crankshaft torque which can be obtained with >turbocharging.>>> > > >Well actually that's not true,....I think what you will find if you look >back to the days when the gasoline piston engine was king, almost ALL of >them were either turbocharged (yes with boost) or supercharged (again >with boost) or both. (I am talking 400hp or more here) Certified type >engines are incredibly overbuilt. > >What killed the development of a better piston turbo-supercharged engine >was a thing called the TURBOPROP! There just isn't a demand for a >sophisticated, high HP to weight ratio, water-cooled, light aircraft >piston engine. Anything that needs more than 400 hp is powered by a P&W >PT6 or a Garrett Grenade (and almost anything with a profit margin needs >more than 400 hp). And sadly the demand for engines below 400 hp is >almost nonexistent so why bother? > >I have heard Continental is developing a turbocharged 2 stroke diesel >that will someday replace the engines in the 150 to 300 hp range but who >knows when that will become reality? > >As far as running boost versus normalizing I think you can run the Piper >Seneca up to 42 inches and I think that's a little more than just >normalizing! :o) > > >I think its up to eXperimentors to tinker with car engines and make them >work in airplanes because the business world just doesn't see a market. >Even when a eXperimentor comes along and builds a nice powerplant from >an autoengine they charge prices that are nothing short of ridiculous. >I hate to say it but anyone who would pay $10k for a 1983 Subaru engine >should have their head examined! Heck the whole car didn't cost that >much in 1983. I look at this just the way most people (unjustifiably in >my book) look at certified type engines. Every time you turn around you >hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it >just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I >don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought >my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for >less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o) So what if you >bought a C85 or an O-200 with only 500 hours left on it? Heck for most >of us that's about 5 years worth of flying. > >You are right about one thing and that is at one time I was all fired up >about a turbo Subaru or even a VW then I thought back to something I >told myself when I first started. I said self "If your gona build this >flying machine and haul your kids and your wife around in it don't go >bolting a car engine to the front of it". So far I have to say going >with a certified type engine is without a doubt the best way to go. I >don't have to re-engineer anything! I buy a part and bolt it on because >it is MADE to go in an airplane and not a car. If I have to pay a little >more for piece of mind then so be it. Yes I have begun to collect spare >parts for if and when I crack a cylinder but I would do that no mater >what engine I was running. > >Oh yeah, before I forget. I don't think there is a source for Posa >carbs except the used market. > >Also just because I had to make the choice that using a certified engine >was the way to go for ME doesn't mean I think its for everyone. We all >do what we have to do to make the dream come true. I fly behind a VW >all the time and I like it. But in MY plane I wanted something else. >Sitting behind (or beside) the drone of a Lycoming or Continental for >over 4000hrs with out so much as a hiccup may have helped me with that >decision. > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:16:02 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs WARRON GRAY wrote: > > I had the best training experience of my life when o-200 blew a jug off at 300 hours, it was my final cross country as a student. if that was gonna happen i figured may as well go to auto conversion soob Warron>>> Yeah you should get the same mechanic to put your subaru together so you can re-live the experience! :o) Properly rebuilt O-200s don't just blow jugs off and neither do properly built Subarus, VWs, Yugos,....ah wait maybe the Yugo?!?! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:46:23 -0600 From: Dean Collette Subject: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) Netters, Mike wrote ">Every time you turn around you >hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it >just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I >don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought >my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for >less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o)" Yep, I have to agree with Mike on this one. When I started building my project I knew that I would have to mess with the design of the thing - I guess that is just the way I'm made. But, if I was going to change a lot with the structure of the airplane, then I wanted to have something that was reliable to drag it into the sky. I started looking at cert. engines. Mike is right when it comes to the cost of new or even re-manufactured - they are way over-priced, but when I started looking at used - well, that was a different story. There are many "deals" out there, but you have to know what you are looking for, and be patient. I found this O-290G after quite a little digging around. Engine cores are easily had for less than $1000 and most can be found for under $500. You can rebuild them yourself because they don't have to be certified when they are mounted to an experimental airframe. They engines are very straight-forward on the inside - really, just an overgrown VW engine. And with a little scrounging, parts can be found inexpensively as well. One of the things that I strongly considered (and still am) is buying a wrecked cert plane. I wanted one that had been flipped in a wind storm or damaged by some other disaster that happened while the engine wasn't running (no prop strike.) This way, with a little work, you get the engine and all of the accessories, plus the instruments and avionics for not a lot of money. Example; a couple of months ago I bid on a wrecked 150 with a O-200 that was damaged by a tornado - airframe was totaled. I lost the bid, but I called the guy who won it, and asked him what he paid (why not?) It turned out that he got the whole thing for $3200 ($150 more than what I bid.) So, you take the parts you want, sell the parts you don't (but that are undamaged) and turn the rest of it into scrap aluminum. - I bet you have less than $2000 into a complete engine and most of the panel! Even if you had to pay $5000, it would still be a deal. One of the guys in my EAA chapter bought a wrecked Long-EZ with a O-235 with less than 100 hours TSMO and a beautiful IFR dash for $2000. So what did I have to give for this O-290G - $300. And it's perfect! I will still tear it down (despite the total of 500 hours on it, just to make sure that everything is up to snuff. I also want to replace the cam and do couple of other things. I will have to pick up a new oilpan, a second mag (or something else) and a carb. By the time its all said and done I should have less than $1000 into this engine and it will be exactly the same as an O-290D. Dean Mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:05:59 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: N56ML instruments >What instruments are you going to install? > >Rich I'm going with the "Engine Instrument System" (I think) that costs about $435 for a digital display of something like 11 different parameters. That will eliminate the need for lots of guages, but I'll also need 4 more VDO guages. On the flight front, I'll do the usal VFR stuff, plus a g-meter. I think I have a picture at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/krpanel.jpg (or maybe panel.jpg, or try putting a .gif on the end of it). Phone calls to my ISP from this hotel in Wales is, shallwe say, prohibitive, so I ain't about to verify. If it's there, you'll see a Skymap GPS (pretty large display area) in the middle of the panel, engine intruments (EIS) on the right, and flight stuff on the left. Flight stuff will be a compass, airpseed indicator, Taskem digital altimeter, vetical speed, and turn and bank. I plan on using Terra com and transponder, but I'm afraid they won't be in production much longer (if even now) since they've been bought and plundered by Trimble, I think. The panel's built. Given the recent thread, I should mention that it's about 7.5 inches high above the longeron, and extends about 2" below the longeron, which gives me plenty of leg entry room, especially considering that my spar is a little shorter than most due to the airfoil. I bent the bottom of the panel around a .5" radius, which really stiffened it up, and eliminates that sharp lower edge in case the unthinkable happens (ask Art Smart about that one). I had planned to spec out all the instruments while I'm here, but work has been more demanding that I expected. And the lagers have been awfully good too.... Mark Langford langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:29:15 -0800 From: "Benny Skyn" Subject: KR: wood glue ? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0EBE.2BDF9280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable any ideas on a good wood glue that I can purchase locally w/out ordering = from wicks? - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0EBE.2BDF9280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
any ideas on a good wood glue that I = can=20 purchase locally w/out ordering from wicks?
- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE0EBE.2BDF9280-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:59:35 +0200 From: 5253 Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) Hi! You gays are really lucky. We in Estonia don't have tornado's - so we can't buy cheap engine or airframe. Juss from Estonia At 23:46 12.11.98 -0600, you wrote: >Netters, > >Mike wrote ">Every time you turn around you >>hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it >>just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I >>don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought >>my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for >>less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o)" > >Yep, I have to agree with Mike on this one. When I started building my >project I knew that I would have to mess with the design of the thing - I >guess that is just the way I'm made. But, if I was going to change a lot >with the structure of the airplane, then I wanted to have something that >was reliable to drag it into the sky. I started looking at cert. engines. >Mike is right when it comes to the cost of new or even re-manufactured - >they are way over-priced, but when I started looking at used - well, that >was a different story. > >There are many "deals" out there, but you have to know what you are looking >for, and be patient. I found this O-290G after quite a little digging >around. Engine cores are easily had for less than $1000 and most can be >found for under $500. You can rebuild them yourself because they don't have >to be certified when they are mounted to an experimental airframe. They >engines are very straight-forward on the inside - really, just an overgrown >VW engine. And with a little scrounging, parts can be found inexpensively >as well. > >One of the things that I strongly considered (and still am) is buying a >wrecked cert plane. I wanted one that had been flipped in a wind storm or >damaged by some other disaster that happened while the engine wasn't >running (no prop strike.) This way, with a little work, you get the engine >and all of the accessories, plus the instruments and avionics for not a lot >of money. Example; a couple of months ago I bid on a wrecked 150 with a >O-200 that was damaged by a tornado - airframe was totaled. I lost the bid, >but I called the guy who won it, and asked him what he paid (why not?) It >turned out that he got the whole thing for $3200 ($150 more than what I >bid.) So, you take the parts you want, sell the parts you don't (but that >are undamaged) and turn the rest of it into scrap aluminum. - I bet you >have less than $2000 into a complete engine and most of the panel! Even if >you had to pay $5000, it would still be a deal. One of the guys in my EAA >chapter bought a wrecked Long-EZ with a O-235 with less than 100 hours TSMO >and a beautiful IFR dash for $2000. > >So what did I have to give for this O-290G - $300. And it's perfect! I will >still tear it down (despite the total of 500 hours on it, just to make sure >that everything is up to snuff. I also want to replace the cam and do >couple of other things. I will have to pick up a new oilpan, a second mag >(or something else) and a carb. By the time its all said and done I should >have less than $1000 into this engine and it will be exactly the same as an >O-290D. > >Dean > >Mailto:drdean@execpc.com > > > Johan Pender - ------------------ GSM 372 5 048 958 GSM post 372 5 3048 958 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:34:45 PST From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: RE: Mazda Engines what is there web site >From: Diamond Woodie SSG >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: RE: Mazda Engines >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:41:07 -0800 >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >I have some information on this engine. I went by the hanger after our >local EAA meeting and took a look at it. It is a twin rotor design that >Dave says develops 75 hp at the crank at 6000 rpm. It is fitted with >electronic fuel injection, dual rotor driven ignition, and a 3/1 belt driven >reduction drive. The engine as fitted weighs 115 pounds and is a German >import core base. The cost of the unit, sans radiator and exhaust is $9600. >Anyone wanting more information can visit their web site. > >SSG Woodie H.W. Diamond Sr. >Staff Sergeant, United States Army >704th Military Police Battalion > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Mulvey [mailto:kr2smm@email.msn.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 12:12 AM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Mazda Engines > > Hi All, > > I spoke with Dave Atkins (Atkins Rotary) about his latest >developments > tonight particularly as far as KR2 aircraft are concerned. > > He has now a two rotor, 75HP engine available for the type. >It weighs 115 > pounds fitted with dual ignition, alternator, starter and >belt driven > prop reduction (2.0:1, 3.0:1) drive. Cost or other >particulars, I don't > know. > > Although I am close by, I have not seen the unit yet. I will >be seeing it > over the coming weekend and will let you know then. > > He has a good product and this might really be promising. > > BRGDS, Marty > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:39:51 PST From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Instrument panel height I'm going to as well. I've already spent so much time thinking of options that if I was getting paid for it I could have bought 3 However, i'm getting the price for a new Pulsar canopy as comparison from Skystar. I looked at one last night and it is the same size as the Dragonfly. (Its probably the same mold) If its cheaper I'll let you know. >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:32:46 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >From: Austin Clark >Subject: Re: KR: Instrument panel height >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >At 05:24 11/12/98 PST, you wrote: >>Thanks I took a look at it. When I first put that instrument panel on I >>thought that the front deck would have an real steep angle but now I >>understand that the angle under the canopy doesnt necessarily have to be >>the same as the angle for the front deck. Have you decided on your >>canopy yet? I'm too cheap to shell out $425 for a dragonfly canopy but I >>really like the thought of it. Troy Petteways gull wing uses flat stock >>for the windsheild and then a cut kr2 canopy for the sides. I've been >>looking at my Archer windows and theres really not much that couldnt be >>done with flat stock all around. >> > >I will probably cough up the dough for the D-fly canopy. I have been >lurking on the D-fly list for several months hoping someone would have one >for sale but no luck. > > >Austin Clark >Pascagoula, MS > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:06:41 -0500 From: William Thelen Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) I have been flying certified aircraft for a few years and am planning to start my KR2S is 1999. I agree that you can find certified used motors relitively cheaply. But the real cost is in the rebuild. If you want to use new parts in the rebuild of a certified engine it will cost you much more. I can almost build an entire 2180 motor for the cost of one jug, piston and head for a 0-290. I think that the bigger question here is how secure are you in your engine building skills. I have rebuilt VW motors, for my own and friends cars, since 1968. They are easy but I would not want to sit behind my first one in an aircraft. What I am trying to say is if you are sure of your skills then a SOOB, VW etc will be ok. If you are not that sure of engine building and repair then cough up the $ for a certified motor. Just my 2 cents..... Thanks, Bill Thelen Dean Collette wrote: > Netters, > > Mike wrote ">Every time you turn around you > >hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it > >just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I > >don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought > >my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for > >less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o)" > > Yep, I have to agree with Mike on this one. When I started building my > project I knew that I would have to mess with the design of the thing - I > guess that is just the way I'm made. But, if I was going to change a lot > with the structure of the airplane, then I wanted to have something that > was reliable to drag it into the sky. I started looking at cert. engines. > Mike is right when it comes to the cost of new or even re-manufactured - > they are way over-priced, but when I started looking at used - well, that > was a different story. > > There are many "deals" out there, but you have to know what you are looking > for, and be patient. I found this O-290G after quite a little digging > around. Engine cores are easily had for less than $1000 and most can be > found for under $500. You can rebuild them yourself because they don't have > to be certified when they are mounted to an experimental airframe. They > engines are very straight-forward on the inside - really, just an overgrown > VW engine. And with a little scrounging, parts can be found inexpensively > as well. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:13:20 EST From: SRMAKISH@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Props is props? NOT! Mike, we lost a family of 4 here in boca raton about a year and a half ago. The plane was a cozy and the "new design" ivo prop came apart. It was a 3 blade and slung a blade, and vibrated everything to death, literally. You are right, it is a piece of crap and I think that is a generous description. I fly a prince p tip on my kr. It is a 52x66. srmakish @aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:18:09 EST From: SRMAKISH@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs I have a old posa super carb with a bunch of needles. If you are interested i would sell it reasonable. Try able kit planes for great subaru intake manifolds, at www.altimizer.com. Talk to ron. srmakish@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:25:34 EST From: SRMAKISH@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs Hey mike. You know as well as I do that anything can break at any given time.I lost a friend last year in a mooney with a BRAND NEW FACTORY ENGINE NOT A REBUILT!!! At about 100 hours the stupid thing put a rod through the block. The plane went into a fl. lake and John never came up.So don't make off the wall statements about not being put together right.There is murphy's law, and then there is the Makish conclusion. MURHPY WAS AN OPTIMIST!! Steve Makish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:28:45 EST From: SRMAKISH@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) You are right, and on top of that you are dealing with 50 year old technology!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:27:26 PST From: "Edward Newbold" Subject: KR: unsubscribe unsubscribe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:27:13 PST From: "Edward Newbold" Subject: KR: unsubscribe unsubscribe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:05:29 -0500 From: "R.W. Moore" Subject: KR: Re: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs I have a KR 1 with a 1835CC VW engine with a posa carb. and a wase gate with a five pound spring and a 303 Rayay turbo. Ken Rand KR 1 did 240MPH @ 14,000'. R. W. Moore N115RM - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Andersen To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 9:00 PM Subject: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs >I think you're right about this. I'll probably use vernier controls for the >throttle and the turbo. For good economy it's important to be able to open >the turbo instead of closing the throttle. >Turbos and airplanes go together like milk and honey. There is no greater >(or cheaper) power to weight ratio gain for piston engines than a turbo. >Unfortunately, they have not caught on in aviation because the aircraft >engines can't take it except for normalizing. The structure of the average >aircooled engine is too weak for the higher cylinder pressures and >crankshaft torque which can be obtained with turbocharging. If engines can >be built to handle diesel compression ratios and torque, why can't they be >built to handle turbo loads? I have found in my research that many diesel >engines (monstrous engines) are commonly turbocharged. Talk about >compression ratios going through the roof! Diesels start out with 20:1, no? > >If you think about it, the turbo stuffs more fuel/air mixture into an EA-81 >engine than is drawn in by larger NA engines, such as the O-290 :) ....... >Oh now I am asking for it. Just kidding! Flameproof suit going on just in >case... I know you used to be a DDTS fan, you actually got me started >thinking about it. At that time I thought you were chasing a pipe dream. >You used to end all your posts with "DDTS All the way!!!" Now I see what >the allure is. I should be able to build my 100hp EA-81 direct drive turbo >engine for less than 3K, including a professionally rebuilt engine, and >adding dual spark sources. The intake and exhaust pipes are going to be the >biggest challenge, but no more so than most homebrew auto conversions like >Tom Crawfords where he welded up the intake and exhaust from scratch. >I'm thinking of using a POSA carb instead of the Ellison EFS-3A. The POSA >is more of a throttle body unit than a carburetor, right? Do you know of a >source for Posa's? >-Tom >DDTS All the Way!!!! > >>I think your gona (you will) find that the auto waste gate will not work >>and you will need to control it manually. You may want to get with >>Roger Enns on that one. He tried it many times before setting up the >>manual waste gate. In my opinion the manual control of the waste gate >>is what you want in an airplane anyway. >> >>-- >>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >>Micheal Mims >>SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:41:18 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Props is props? NOT! SRMAKISH@aol.com wrote: > > Mike, we lost a family of 4 here in boca raton about a year and a half ago. The plane was a cozy and the "new design" ivo prop came apart. It was a 3 blade and slung a blade, and vibrated everything to death, literally. You are right, it is a piece of crap and I think that is a generous description. I fly a prince p tip on my kr. It is a 52x66. > srmakish @aol.com You know I am not much on things ending up in a court room but this is one time (the first time) that if I were killed by a Prop built as badly as this one I would hope my wife would sue the crap out of the company. Of course I am not the type who would bolt a prop like that one to my airplane without first disassembling it to see what makes it tick. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building ailerons and firewall now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:51:32 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs SRMAKISH@aol.com wrote: > > Hey mike. You know as well as I do that anything can break at any given time.I lost a friend last year in a mooney with a BRAND NEW FACTORY ENGINE NOT A REBUILT!!!>>>> Your right, with machines anything can happen. It is rare that a factory motor comes unglued though. Where I used to work we began to have problems with engines rebuilt at local shops so we started buying factory remans with NEW cylinders and never had another problem. As far as dealing with 50 year old technology lets just say the aircraft engine was 20 years ahead of its time so we are really only dealing with 30 year old technology! :o) As far as that goes almost all of us are using otto cycle engines so that puts us in the 100 year old technology! :o) PS Sorry about your friend, been there done that, don't like it at all! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building ailerons and firewall now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:03:07 -0600 From: Dean Collette Subject: RE: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) Juss, I think the word you are looking for is "guys" not gays - Big difference, very big difference! Dean - -----Original Message----- From: 5253 [SMTP:juss@teleport.ee] Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:00 AM To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) Hi! You gays are really lucky. We in Estonia don't have tornado's - so we can't buy cheap engine or airframe. Juss from Estonia At 23:46 12.11.98 -0600, you wrote: >Netters, > >Mike wrote ">Every time you turn around you >>hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it >>just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I >>don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought >>my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for >>less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o)" > >Yep, I have to agree with Mike on this one. When I started building my >project I knew that I would have to mess with the design of the thing - I >guess that is just the way I'm made. But, if I was going to change a lot >with the structure of the airplane, then I wanted to have something that >was reliable to drag it into the sky. I started looking at cert. engines. >Mike is right when it comes to the cost of new or even re-manufactured - >they are way over-priced, but when I started looking at used - well, that >was a different story. > >There are many "deals" out there, but you have to know what you are looking >for, and be patient. I found this O-290G after quite a little digging >around. Engine cores are easily had for less than $1000 and most can be >found for under $500. You can rebuild them yourself because they don't have >to be certified when they are mounted to an experimental airframe. They >engines are very straight-forward on the inside - really, just an overgrown >VW engine. And with a little scrounging, parts can be found inexpensively >as well. > >One of the things that I strongly considered (and still am) is buying a >wrecked cert plane. I wanted one that had been flipped in a wind storm or >damaged by some other disaster that happened while the engine wasn't >running (no prop strike.) This way, with a little work, you get the engine >and all of the accessories, plus the instruments and avionics for not a lot >of money. Example; a couple of months ago I bid on a wrecked 150 with a >O-200 that was damaged by a tornado - airframe was totaled. I lost the bid, >but I called the guy who won it, and asked him what he paid (why not?) It >turned out that he got the whole thing for $3200 ($150 more than what I >bid.) So, you take the parts you want, sell the parts you don't (but that >are undamaged) and turn the rest of it into scrap aluminum. - I bet you >have less than $2000 into a complete engine and most of the panel! Even if >you had to pay $5000, it would still be a deal. One of the guys in my EAA >chapter bought a wrecked Long-EZ with a O-235 with less than 100 hours TSMO >and a beautiful IFR dash for $2000. > >So what did I have to give for this O-290G - $300. And it's perfect! I will >still tear it down (despite the total of 500 hours on it, just to make sure >that everything is up to snuff. I also want to replace the cam and do >couple of other things. I will have to pick up a new oilpan, a second mag >(or something else) and a carb. By the time its all said and done I should >have less than $1000 into this engine and it will be exactly the same as an >O-290D. > >Dean > >Mailto:drdean@execpc.com > > > Johan Pender - ------------------ GSM 372 5 048 958 GSM post 372 5 3048 958 ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #182 *****************************