From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, January 09, 1999 12:07 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: January 08, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Friday, January 08, 1999. 1. Re: Builder list by state??? 2. Re: sight gauge 3. Re: Header to Wing Fuel Tank Pump auto controls 4. Re: new guy 5. Fuel Cells 6. Re: Thermal Questions 7. Re: Celotex 8. Fuel Tanks 9. Re: Thermal Questions 10. Re: Celotex 11. Re: Fuel Tanks 12. Re: KR gathering/Chino Kosh 13. Re: Fuel Tanks 14. Re: Fuel Tanks 15. Re: Fuel Cells 16. Re: Fuel Tanks 17. Re: Mims SOOB comments 18. Re: Celotex 19. Randy's nit 20. VW's for sale! 21. Re: KR gathering/Chino Kosh 22. Re: Thermal Questions 23. Re: Header to Wing Fuel Tank Pump auto controls 24. Re: Thermal Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Builder list by state??? From: SLIMPIDLIN@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 06:33:51 EST X-Message-Number: 1 Rod Where in Colo. are you? Myself and Ron Lee are here in the Springs(actually Ron is out at Meadow Lake).Mine is KR2 .Im workin on my uphostery and panel now.Hopin to have mine done by middle of summer.Would like to see other KRs in area also. Feel free to stop in when you get by this way. Garry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: sight gauge From: "RONALD R.EASON" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 06:08:36 -0800 X-Message-Number: 2 A sight gauge id the only positive way to see how much fuel you have in the tank. At 10:27 AM 1/7/99 EST, you wrote: >Hi netters, > >Is a sight gauge necessary (IAW drawing no. 70 pg. 83 of Jan, 90 plans)? >Does it serve a purpose, other than the obvious? Are "store bought" gauges >being used? >One more. I'm using Safe-t-poxy for fuel application, is it necessary to use >a "special" flox, other than basic cotton flox fibers? > >Thanks all, jonpegr1@aol.com charleston sc. > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jrlkc@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Header to Wing Fuel Tank Pump auto controls From: "RONALD R.EASON" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 06:13:04 -0800 X-Message-Number: 3 Try jrl-engineering.com, electric facet fuel pumps are available from Aircraft Spruce. At 11:06 PM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Ron, I cant seem to find the web page for this company, can you or somebody >give me more info on the company, or where to buy either intank pumps or >whatever pumps. >Thanks, >Rod Kelso. >How bout them Denver Broncos, Superbowl bound again???????????Hmmmmmmmmmm > >---------- >> From: RONALD R. EASON >> To: KR-net users group >> Subject: [kr-net] Header to Wing Fuel Tank Pump auto controls >> Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 8:42 PM >> >> If you have wing tanks and a gravity header tank see the web page >> jrl-engineering.com for details of a auto controller of fuel pump(s). >> >> Ron >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rbk@orci.com >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jrlkc@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: new guy From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:07:40 PST X-Message-Number: 4 I would also throw a few more inches in front of the forward spar. Rich >Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:10:44 -0600 >To: "KR-net users group" >From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) >Subject: [kr-net] Re: new guy >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >Dave, > >Yup, pretty much the same with the KR-1 as with the KR-2. Few suggestions: > build it as light ("basic", as you say) as possible for best performance - >maybe shoot for 400 # E.W., 1835 VW from Great Planes would be an >excellant and reliable good choice for power plant and will give you good >performance. Also, set up the plane to operate near the front part of the >CG envelope. Don't use the alum.channel for an engine mount (maybe the >new plans have changed that) - use one that's built up, which will help >move the cg forward a bit and give you room for rear mounting a single >mag., if that's your choice for ignition. Operate the plane daylight VFR >only. The two different KR-1s I've flown were not difficult to fly, just >different than the spamcans. They needed to be flown - can't say they were >hands off airplanes, but nevertheless a real blast to fly! Best wishes >with your project.! > >Ed Janssen. > > >At 02:11 AM 1/8/99 America/Fort_Wa, you wrote: >>Tomorrow I order my kr1 plans. I've been reading about >>kr's for a long time, but I didn't know there was a cg prob >>until I plugged into kr-net. Does the same problem occur >>in the kr1? I intend to build a basic "severe clear bird" >>look forward to your help, >> >>dave > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fuel Cells From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:12:55 PST X-Message-Number: 5 >Thanks for the suggestion on using P/P Fuel Cells. Do you happen to >have more specific information on where I can get additional information >on fuel cells? Get a summit racing catalog 1-800-230-3030 and remember never,never,never tell a mfgr that you are using stuff in an airplane. I dont think summit cares but others may not sell to you. Anyone have Dr. Deans e-mail address? Rich Parker richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm Jaffrey, NH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Thermal Questions From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:17:17 PST X-Message-Number: 6 >What temperature is an aircraft wing anywhere at 10,000 feet after a 2 hour flight? adiabatic lapse rate ring a bell? Rich Parker in -10 F New Hampshire http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Celotex From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:23:11 PST X-Message-Number: 7 >Has anyone ever used any of the foam sheathing for use in insulating houses? Many people have. I think a lot of people unnecessarily get raped by AS+S buying urethane foam. The advantage if you want to call it one is that you can use that smelly polyvinylester resin. theres compelling reasons to use either. Rich Parker richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm Jaffrey, NH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fuel Tanks From: jeb@thuntek.net Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 6:31:22 X-Message-Number: 8 I got a chance to fly in a Glassair, and their tank in in the leading edge, I got to thinking - you could get 8-10 just in the center section. A 36"x10"x4" box is about 7 gallons. shape it like the airfoil and you'd get nearly 12. Use it to fill the header. Neat thing is as you xfer, no change in CG. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Thermal Questions From: Donald Reid Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:54:51 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 Jody Wallace wrote: >=20 > KR Friends: >=20 > I've got a couple of weather ( temperature ) related questions. > Do composite aircraft structures suffer from freezing temperatures? Not > a problem in Chino or Alabama maybe but I live in Indiana. One of the first KR-1's was built in Alaska. The attached story was in an April 1974 Sport Aviation article. I have been scanning all of the S.A. articles on the KR so that I can add them to my web site. I have not finished yet, but I thought that this might answer the temperature questions. The author/builder is named Fred Keller. In keeping with my promise to pass on any cold weather problems encountered with my Foam/Dynel KR-1, I submit the following experiences. A few weeks ago the plane was rolled into a friend's garage here In Anchorage for some general maintenance and a thorough inspection. It was strictly for my own curiosity - to just see how everything looked. The small cracks that had previously appeared in the wing fillet area (see January 1974 SPORT AVIATION, page 54) were patched and painted. Some other corrections and additions were made, such as rubber shock mounting the engine and installing a gear up warning light. Yes, it almost happened ... and if not for some very observant tower controllers my little KR-1 would have needed a new prop and face lifting. Well, so much for the near mishap! After this general maintenance, cleaning, and additions were made, it was time to leave the garage. On this particular day the outside temperature was around O=B0 F. My friend, Dave Daly, and I gave thought to possible contractions of the skin due to the abrupt temperature change. The garage was allowed to cool for about an hour and the plane seemed about right for exposure to the direct cold. After raising the garage door for an additional 15 minutes and allowing the plane to cool further, we decided to wrap blankets over the fuselage and wing roots to relieve the sudden shock of the Dynel and epoxy skin coming into contact with the 0=B0 air. The garage had already cooled to 40=B0 when th= is extra precaution was taken. We rolled the plane out and loaded it onto a snow machine trailer and tied it down. Once loaded and tied down, Dave and I stood there pleased that our precautions had worked when a sharp noise, almost as loud as a small pistol, sounded in the chilled air. Of course, the smiles turned to instant fear as we found a crack about 18" long around the front fillet area of the right wing root. Well, about 15 "IF'S" later, we pulled it to my driveway for safe keeping until I could repair the crack. Once parked, I left and did not return to look over the damage again until late that evening, at which time I found five additional cracks in the fillet areas and two skin fractures at the end of the main carrythrough spar. All of these cracks have not impaired the plane structurally, but has presented the aggravating work required to patch and paint them. The whole point to this experience is to let others know that the KR-1, in my opinion, cannot be taken into a warm area and suddenly moved outside without a thorough cooling off period. I feel that no less than 24 hours should be allowed for this slow, cool down transition. Giving the entire matter much thought, it became very clear that the problem lay in the fact that so much of the wood structure is nestled in and around the fine insulating properties of the foam. With the foam warm and it, in turn, keeping the wood structure warm and the skin being exposed to the cold and contracting such as it does - then something is bound to occur. My previous experiences with cold temperatures and the KR-1 have shown that no real faults have appeared as long as the plane is left outside to ride along with the normal up and down changes. The temperature has never dropped suddenly enough at any time so far to cause the aforementioned situation. But this problem could well hinder the pilots who have the convenience of an overnight warm-up for the next day's intended flight. Or in my case -- just routine winter time maintenance and inspection. In summary, the KR-1 will stand up to normal outside up and down temperatures, but possible cracking could occur if brought into a warm area, for whatever reason, and then rolled outside without the estimated 24 hour cooling off period. This precautionary exercise should be taken in situations where the outside temperature is below 40=B0 F. --=20 Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Celotex From: "Tom Rehl" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:15:42 -0600 X-Message-Number: 10 I noticed that Mike Langford used (3?) large peices of foam in the = construction of his aft deck. Would it be feasable to layer these thin = foam sheets, sand them to shape and then glass over? If this would work, = then what adhesive would best be used to adhere the layers together? I've = heard that 3M spray adhesive works fine, but I wanted a 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, = etc..) opinion.=20 Another question that has bearing to my current project - What is the best = way to attach 2 peices of glassed foam on the same dimensional plane? Is = it safe to just glass over the joint? How much overlap should there be? Just some fuel for the fire.... - T ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:49:16 EST X-Message-Number: 11 In a message dated 1/8/99 9:31:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, jeb@thuntek.net writes: << I got a chance to fly in a Glassair, and their tank in in the leading edge, I got to thinking - you could get 8-10 just in the center section. A 36"x10"x4" box is about 7 gallons. shape it like the airfoil and you'd get nearly 12. Use it to fill the header. Neat thing is as you xfer, no change in CG. >> There was a thread floating some time ago concerning using 4" PVC (or whichever one is fuel proof) and laying this against the front of the main spar. Once again if you want substantial fuel, you end up with fuel in the outboard panels which if not burnt equally between the two wings would make one wing heavier than the other. Someone do the math and see how many gallons you could carry on stubs, it can't be much. I have seen this used on ultralights and it does provide for an easy way to carry additional fuel. Anyone wanting to fire bullets at this one, you won't hurt my feelings..................only repeating an old post and I don't remember all the drawbacks. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR gathering/Chino Kosh From: Gordon Brimhall Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:43:17 -0800 X-Message-Number: 12 HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > Corona is few miles from Chino (fifteen minutes by car). Aircraft Spruce is > located very close to it. Therefore, everybody building an airplane at Chino > goes there regularly. > > If you plan to visit Corone do come and check out our projects. > > Haris > I'm only about a hundred miles from their, I'm up in the High Desert. I look forward to any over nite Fly-Ins at both of the airports as we have a little 6-Pak camper on our truck. It is our poor airplane builders motorhome for now. Keep me advised of any Fly-Ins in So. Calif. Thanks Gordon > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: snakeskin@surfree.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:32:31 EST X-Message-Number: 13 In a message dated 1/8/99 7:53:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, KR2616TJ@aol.com writes: << Anyone wanting to fire bullets at this one, you won't hurt my feelings..................only repeating an old post and I don't remember all the drawbacks. >> I have a question for the legal eagles on the net. "If I have a leading edge and a center tank joined by couple of 1.25" tubing, does FAA considers it two tanks or one". I need to know whether to buy two extra fuel gauge system as by regs. all tanks should have a guage. Also, is an low level on off switch considered a guage? Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: KRBLUCH@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:42:21 EST X-Message-Number: 14 I don't think the FAA cares how your tanks are arranged. There was no question on any of that during my sign-off. The EAA designee signed off on my plane. The FAA was only involved in final paperwork and has never seen the aircraft. Dave Blucher ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Cells From: "RONALD R.EASON" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:42:12 -0800 X-Message-Number: 15 Contact jegs.com and get the catalog it has electric fuel pumps and etc. Ron At 05:12 AM 1/8/99 PST, you wrote: > >>Thanks for the suggestion on using P/P Fuel Cells. Do you happen to >>have more specific information on where I can get additional >information >>on fuel cells? > >Get a summit racing catalog 1-800-230-3030 and remember >never,never,never tell a mfgr that you are using stuff in an airplane. I >dont think summit cares but others may not sell to you. > >Anyone have Dr. Deans e-mail address? > >Rich Parker >richontheroad@hotmail.com >http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm >Jaffrey, NH > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jrlkc@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks From: PhilKR2S@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:25:19 EST X-Message-Number: 16 In a message dated 1/8/99 9:52:44 AM Central Standard Time, KR2616TJ@aol.com writes: My calculations show one gal for each 19.6 inches of 4" pipe. This is figuring 3.875 id pipe. How far out on the outer wings can the pipe extend? > here was a thread floating some time ago concerning using 4" PVC (or > whichever one is fuel proof) and laying this against the front of the main > spar. Once again if you want substantial fuel, you end up with fuel in the > outboard panels which if not burnt equally between the two wings would make > one wing heavier than the other. Someone do the math and see how many > gallons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Mims SOOB comments From: Kr2dream@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:51:14 EST X-Message-Number: 17 Rich: My mount was supplied with my engine. E-mail me separately with an address and I'll send you a diskette with detailed pictures. Bob Lasecki Snowing still in Chicago! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Celotex From: Donald Reid Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 18:33:17 -0500 X-Message-Number: 18 Tom Rehl wrote: > > I noticed that Mike Langford used (3?) large peices of foam in the construction of his aft deck. Would it be feasable to layer these thin foam sheets, sand them to shape and then glass over? If this would work, then what adhesive would best be used to adhere the layers together? Anything that is stronger than the foam and will not chemically alter the foam will work fine. Epoxy/micro slurry, five minute epoxy, whatever. > Another question that has bearing to my current project - What is the best way to attach 2 peices of glassed foam on the same dimensional plane? Is it safe to just glass over the joint? How much overlap should there be? I have used about 1 inch of overlap per ply of glass. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Randy's nit From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:44:07 EST X-Message-Number: 19 KRNetheads: I think I was #4 to sign onto this board when it was formed back before dirt. So I've seen the growth of KRNet literally explode. Back in '96 at Pine Bluff "Kosh" the few of us KRNet guys who attended were looked at as odd-balls (actually most of us still are viewed that way) when we talked about the internet. One year later at the '97 PerryKosh, about 70-75% of the attendees were "connected to KRNet." Boy how things have changed. Now for the "Nit Topic" - At the risk of getting a cybercitation from EagleCop, could each of you be sure the "subject" line of the message you send or respond to is relevant? My head hurts after I read all of the subject lines that do not correspond to the message topic. Randy "Whine" Stein Soviet Monica, CA flamesto: BSHADR@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: VW's for sale! From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:44:05 EST X-Message-Number: 20 KRNetheads: From the DFly list. Ya better be quick... Randy ~~~~~~~~~~ Subj: DFLY: Dragonfly parts for sale Date: 99-01-08 03:05:26 EST From: dmorris@gte.net (Dave Morris) If anyone is interested in a fuselage w/tail, wing, 2150cc VW, 1835cc turbo VW, all from a flying Dragonfly and thus fully finished and painted and working, let me know. (No, I'm not selling my project! I just found someone who is parting out his.) Dave Morris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR gathering/Chino Kosh From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Tom Stokes) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:52:36 -0800 X-Message-Number: 21 On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:58:58 EST HAshraf@aol.com writes: >another Chino Kosh in April/May time frame for us West Coasters. Mike >is hoping to start taxing and hopefully my plane will be further along. >Haris Haris I came to the last one and would probally come again just to see the Mimms Mochine. And the airport resturant does have good coffee. If I don't have over 2 kids I will make it. I havent done anything on my KR in a year. Tom Stokes in Reno NV ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Thermal Questions From: KRkip@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:52:49 EST X-Message-Number: 22 Fellow Netters I think that i can add some info on the cold and how it affects the KR in a real world enviorment. My KR is over 10years old now and it has spent all its time here in Maine in temps that been from -30 to over 100 degrees. It has always been hanagered in both heated and unheated conditions. I fly everytime i can in the winter in all temps although my heater just can't cut it at much below 20 at cruise speeds. At this time i have not experienced any cracking of the fiberglass ar any other outward signs of stress on any visible surfaces. Inspections also have not uncovered any problems on any interior spaces as well. I also have wing tanks in both wings that are located between between the spars outboard of the stub wings and each carries 12gals. On long trips i carry 10gals in each wing and have not noticed any cg problems or wing heavy problems due to unevean fuel feed, and yes i have landed with up to 8 gals left in each wing and the only difference is the tail will settle a little sooner on rollout. Kip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Header to Wing Fuel Tank Pump auto controls From: CruzJ12@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:05:39 EST X-Message-Number: 23 In a message dated 1/7/1999 23:00:23 EST, jrlkc@mindspring.com writes: << jrl-engineering.com >> Thanks Ron for this information.......Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Thermal Questions From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:50:15 -0700 X-Message-Number: 24 I fly my KR year round and have had it in 100 degree temps in Phoenix and sub-zero temps up to 13,500 feet up here in the mountains. I haven't seen any ill effects on the plane. Although the pilot doesn't fair so well with the temperature extremes. :o) Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:32:00 PST "Jody Wallace" writes: > >KR Friends: > >I've got a couple of weather ( temperature ) related questions. >Do composite aircraft structures suffer from freezing temperatures? Not >a problem in Chino or Alabama maybe but I live in Indiana. When KR wings >were tested to destruction was it 20 degrees outside? What temperature >is an aircraft wing anywhere at 10,000 feet after a 2 hour flight? Do >KR's develope alot of stress cracks in the fiberglass...coefficients of >thermal expansion...oh my! > >p.s. I'm not a composite aircraft basher...I love these aircraft. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jscott.pilot@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com