From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 12:14 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: February 24, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Wednesday, February 24, 1999. 1. installing spars 2. Re: good plans! 3. RE: 2-S wing tanks 4. RE: 2-S wing tanks 5. RE: 2-S wing tanks 6. Airfares 7. Re: KR outer wings. 8. RE: 2-S wing tanks 9. 1700 lb KR2 10. Joint Bond Failure ... 11. Kr engine mounts and nose gear installation. 12. RE: 2-S wing tanks 13. Re: Joint Bond Failure ... 14. Fw: 1700 lb KR2 15. C-85 for sale 16. RE: 2-S wing tanks 17. Re: Joint Bond Failure ... 18. RE: 2-S wing tanks 19. Re: Progress update HUD 20. RE: 2-S wing tanks 21. Re: C-85 for sale 22. Re: Franklin engines 23. RE: 2-S wing tanks 24. Re: KR outer wings. 25. New web page 26. Re: GPAC Strobes 27. Re: KR outer wings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: installing spars From: "Richard Parker" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:19:36 PST X-Message-Number: 1 So I take it your recommendation would be to push it back toward the fuselage? Assuming my wife doesnt have the baby this weekend I'm planning on installing my spars. What other little tid bits of info do you guys recommend when doing this? All I've heard so far is make sure the spar is perpendicular to the longerons Rich Parker richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm Jaffrey, NH >I got a half a gallon per inch of stub wing, which means I've got two 19" >wide wing tanks, and I have 19 gallons of fuel capacity, not counting >baffles, sender, and airspace. I could have easily gotten 23" wide tanks >had I been slightly smarter and considered what I was about to affect when I >glued on my plywood airfoil templates 4 inches away from the fuselage. >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: good plans! From: "Saunders" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:29:29 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 The ambiguity of R/R plans set has something to do with liability/ lawyers. To complete a plane almost certainly means modification or an addition to the original plans. The 2-S plans is just an additional sheet or two added to the original. I found it a little aggravating at times having to interpret KR-2 from KR-2S dimensions. In all fairness, it will make for a nice plane when it's finished. -----Original Message----- From: Kr2dream@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:01 AM Subject: [kr-net] good plans! >After two years of struggling with the R-R plans for my KR2-S I have just seen >a set of plans for the 1/2 scale Corsair put out by WAR of Florida. Besides a >manual the size of the KR manual (except all of it is applicable) there are 46 >sheets of drawings with EVERY part detailed in full size. NOTHING is left to >be invented by the builder. Their plans sets are complete and beautifully >done. The KR's would really be a dream to build if we had anything >comparable. > >Sorry for the divergence but I had to pass this on. > >Bob Lasecki >frusterated but still glassing in Chicago > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: saunders@hereintown.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: "Blandford, Carlton C" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:30:51 +0200 X-Message-Number: 3 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5FF1.79E55102 Content-Type: text/plain What is the end weight of each wing once wing tanks have been installed? In this country (Zuid Africa) we are not allowed to build wing tanks without the header tank because of the "CG" problem. Fuel in pumped from the wing tanks into the main header tank to keep the 'CG" well forward. Two guys using this method of pumping directly from the wing tanks to the engine we're fatally injured because no header tank was installed and on final they can't keep the noise down without power and went into a flat spin. keep this in ming as the same applies to any KR. What will the gross weight be with full fuel and two guys on board? Any comments Carlton > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Mims [SMTP:mikemims@home.com] > Sent: 24 February 1999 08:06 > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing tanks > > > Saunders wrote: > > > > Thanks for the response, I guess I should have been a little more > > specific, My wing tanks will be in the outboard wings only, 50 inches > > long.>>>> > > From what I understand this may not be a good idea. The little KRs tend > to get wing heavy with a slight imbalance of fuel load when the tanks > are in the outboard sections of the wing. There is a KR pilot at my > airport (actually he is on this list, you there Larry?) who once told me > he wished he would have built a header tank. Maybe he will comment on > this? Larry hello, you there? :o) > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Still Building the Cowling... > mailto:mikemims@home.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Aliso Viejo Ca > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: CBlandford@mail.sbic.co.za > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5FF1.79E55102 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing tanks

What is the end = weight of each wing once wing tanks have been installed?

In this country = (Zuid Africa) we are not allowed to build wing tanks without the header = tank because of the "CG" problem. Fuel in pumped from the = wing tanks into the main header tank to keep the 'CG" well = forward. Two guys using this method of pumping directly from the wing = tanks to the engine we're fatally injured because no header tank was = installed and on final they can't keep the noise down without power and = went into a flat spin. keep this in ming as the same applies to any = KR. 

What will the gross = weight be with full fuel and two guys on board?

Any comments

Carlton

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5FF1.79E55102-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: "Mark Langford" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:52:39 -0000 X-Message-Number: 4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE5FC2.4502AD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>In this country (Zuid Africa) we are not allowed to build wing tanks = without the header tank because of the "CG" problem. Fuel in pumped from = the wing tanks into the main header tank to keep the 'CG" well = forward.<< I realize the the rules are far more restrictive in places other than = the USA, but this business of forcing you to build everything exactly by = the plans is crazy! No matter where you're fuel is, whether in header = tank, wing tank, or in the tail, the CG still needs to be set up = properly before it'll be safe to fly. Location of the fuel tanks should = have nothing to do with whether your CG is forward or aft. Your CG is = where you put it, not where your fuel tank dictates. Having said that, = there are some places that are "smarter" than others, as far as CG shift = is concerned.=20 Due to fuel burn, the perfect place for fuel is right on your CG, so = that your CG doesn't shift as you fly. A header tank is something like = 14-16 inches forward of your CG, while a wing tank's centroid is about = 6-8" aft of your CG. That means the CG shift experienced during a given = flight in which fuel goes from full to empty is cut in half. That's a = big number. Now there are other perfectly valid reasons for having a = header tank, gravity feed being the biggest one, and side to side CG = shift (the Mims mentioned) being another. But the biggest problem with = the header tank up front is as you fly your CG moves aft, and when it = comes time to land your CG has moved as far aft as it will be during = your flight. I'd much rather have half the CG shift with wing tanks, = and have my CG move forward during the flight. That way when you land, = your plane will be at its forward CG, not its aft, meaning most stable, = not most unstable. If you're worried about gravity feed, I'd just use a = mechanical pump (they rarely fail suddenly) with an electric = boost/backup. If I don't use fuel injection, that's what I plan to do. Bottom line is the CG of your plane should be nailed down by motor mount = length and battery placement, among other things, regardless of where = your fuel tanks are. Don't know the weight of the whole wing after it's built, since it's = built into the fuselage. I guess you could figure it out if you weighed = your fuselage first, but I added a tail too... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE5FC2.4502AD10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing = tanks
>>In this country = (Zuid Africa)=20 we are not allowed to build wing tanks without the header tank because = of the=20 "CG" problem. Fuel in pumped from the wing tanks into the main = header=20 tank to keep the 'CG" well forward.<<
 
 
I realize the the rules are far more = restrictive=20 in places other than the USA, but this business of forcing you to build=20 everything exactly by the plans is crazy!  No matter where you're = fuel is,=20 whether in header tank, wing tank, or in the tail, the CG still needs to = be set=20 up properly before it'll be safe to fly.  Location of the fuel = tanks should=20 have nothing to do with whether your CG is forward or aft.  Your CG = is=20 where you put it, not where your fuel tank dictates.  Having said = that,=20 there are some places that are "smarter" than others, as far = as CG=20 shift is concerned. 
 
Due to fuel burn, the perfect place = for fuel is=20 right on your CG, so that your CG doesn't shift as you fly.  A = header tank=20 is something like 14-16 inches forward of your CG, while a wing tank's = centroid=20 is about 6-8" aft of your CG.  That means the CG shift = experienced=20 during a given flight in which fuel goes from full to empty is cut in=20 half.  That's a big number.  Now there are other perfectly = valid=20 reasons for having a header tank, gravity feed being the biggest one, = and side=20 to side CG shift (the Mims mentioned) being another.  But the = biggest=20 problem with the header tank up front is as you fly your CG moves aft, = and when=20 it comes time to land your CG has moved as far aft as it will be during = your=20 flight.  I'd much rather have half the CG shift with wing tanks, = and have=20 my CG move forward during the flight.  That way when you land, your = plane=20 will be at its forward CG, not its aft, meaning most stable, not most=20 unstable.  If you're worried about gravity feed, I'd just use a = mechanical=20 pump (they rarely fail suddenly) with an electric boost/backup.  If = I don't=20 use fuel injection, that's what I plan to do.
 
Bottom line is the CG of your plane = should be=20 nailed down by motor mount length and battery placement, among other = things,=20 regardless of where your fuel tanks are.
Don't know the weight of the whole = wing after=20 it's built, since it's built into the fuselage.  I guess you could = figure=20 it out if you weighed your fuselage first, but I added a tail=20 too...
 
Mark Langford,  Huntsville, = Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net

see= KR2S=20 project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langfor= d
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE5FC2.4502AD10-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: "Mark Langford" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:59:28 -0000 X-Message-Number: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE5FC3.389E9150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take a look at my wing tanks at = http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/wingtank.html . Maybe this will shed = some light on things. One other advantage of a header is you can build = an appreciable sump at the bottom. Wing tanks require a little more = thought. That's why I put the baffle in behind the pickup (for climb = and landing configuration), and a hinged "door" to keep fuel from = draining away from the pickup during an uncoordinated turn. What I've = built is a "header" tank inside my wing tank... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE5FC3.389E9150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing = tanks
 

Take a look at my wing tanks at = http://home.hiwaa= y.net/~langford/wingtank.html=20 .  Maybe this will shed some light on things.  One other = advantage of=20 a header is you can build an appreciable sump at the bottom.  Wing = tanks=20 require a little more thought.  That's why I put the baffle in = behind the=20 pickup (for climb and landing configuration), and a hinged = "door" to=20 keep fuel from draining away from the pickup during an uncoordinated = turn. =20 What I've built is a "header" tank inside my wing = tank...
 
Mark Langford,  Huntsville, = Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see= KR2S=20 project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langfor= d
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE5FC3.389E9150-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Airfares From: "Richard Parker" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:09:43 PST X-Message-Number: 6 For you left coasters that are planning on going to Sun and Fun, Southwest has fares from San Diego to Tampa for $98 each way. Also for the gathering in the fall, Southwest flies into Nashville for cheap money also. I flew from New Hampshire to Nashville for $55 ea way. Their web site is southwest.com (No I dont work for them or own stock) Only a kr will get you there cheaper! Rich Parker ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR outer wings. From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:21:46 EST X-Message-Number: 7 In a message dated 2/24/99 1:38:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tlongcrier@aol.com writes: << Is there a proceedure for glassing the outer wings without turning the plane upside down? >> You're going to find this nearly impossible to do. Go look at Mike Mims' web page for the famous flip-o-matic. It works wonderfully well and trust me, it is good to have on hand because glassing the bottom of your wings will not be the last time you need to have the airplane upside down. You can build the flip-o-matic in no time. With this arrangement, all it takes is two adults and a couple kids on each wingtip to flip a nearly complete KR. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: "Blandford, Carlton C" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:37:58 +0200 X-Message-Number: 8 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE6003.39FEDD08 Content-Type: text/plain Mark, I agree with your comments and have seen your wing tanks. It is definitely not my intention to discourage this practice or say wing tanks are not the way to go as I have wing tanks or wing tip tanks on my KR2. This accident resulted in these restrictions on the KR2 in this country. I personally believe the "CG" was incorrect from the beginning hence the need for power to keep the noise down. Maybe other guys in South Africa can comment on this as I've seen plenty KR2's having wing tanks removed. Would you say that a stock KR2 with a VW1800 would be safe to operate without a header tank and only wing tanks? Please note that my comments refer to all KR's in general and I'm not commenting on your plane alone. Cheers Carlton > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Langford [SMTP:langford@hiwaay.net] > Sent: 24 February 1999 08:59 > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing tanks > > > > Take a look at my wing tanks at > . Maybe this will shed > some light on things. One other advantage of a header is you can build an > appreciable sump at the bottom. Wing tanks require a little more thought. > That's why I put the baffle in behind the pickup (for climb and landing > configuration), and a hinged "door" to keep fuel from draining away from > the pickup during an uncoordinated turn. What I've built is a "header" > tank inside my wing tank... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > see KR2S project N56ML at > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE6003.39FEDD08 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing tanks

Mark, I agree with = your comments and have seen your wing tanks. It is definitely not my = intention to discourage this practice or say wing tanks are not the way = to go as I have wing tanks or wing tip tanks on my KR2. This accident = resulted in these restrictions on the KR2 in this country. I personally = believe the "CG" was incorrect from the beginning hence the = need for power to keep the noise down. Maybe other guys in South Africa = can comment on this as I've seen plenty KR2's having  wing tanks = removed. 

Would you say that a = stock KR2 with a VW1800 would be safe to operate without a header tank = and only wing tanks?

Please note that my = comments refer to all KR's in general and I'm not commenting on your = plane alone.

Cheers
Carlton

 

 

    -----Original Message-----
    From:   Mark Langford [SMTP:langford@hiwaay.net]
    Sent:   24 February 1999 08:59
    To:     KR-net users group
    Subject:       = [kr-net] RE: 2-S wing tanks

    =A0

    Take a look at my = wing tanks at <http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/wingtank.html>= .=A0 Maybe = this will shed some light on things.=A0 One other advantage of a header = is you can build an appreciable sump at the bottom.=A0 Wing tanks = require a little more thought.=A0 That's why I put the baffle in behind = the pickup (for climb and landing configuration), and a hinged = "door" to keep fuel from draining away from the pickup during = an uncoordinated turn.=A0 What I've built is a "header" tank = inside my wing tank...

    =A0
    Mark Langford,=A0 = Huntsville, Alabama
    <mailto:langford@hiwaay.net>
    see KR2S project N56ML = at <http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford>
    =A0
    =A0

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE6003.39FEDD08-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 1700 lb KR2 From: "Kobus de Wet" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:49:58 +0200 X-Message-Number: 9 Hi all you netters. Well after having been off the air for almost a month ( Computer cashed in and I had to wait for the local release of a new chip) here I am back again. 800 e-mail's in the box and it took me a day to work through all that. Q1. Who gets the panel planner next. Fact 1. Locally we have a KR-2 flying at 1700 Lbs. all up weight. I do not have to many facts regarding the beast (Concrete mixer) but I do know that the motor is 150 Hp confessional and it has wingletts on the main planes (wings), retractable gear and the owner operator is a 747 captain. I plan on getting hold of the guy to give me some more info. and will see if I can get hold of some pictures to post on my web site. Cheers Kobus de Wet Cape Town South Africa GMT +2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Joint Bond Failure ... From: "Albert Pecoraro" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:12:34 EST X-Message-Number: 10 Netters, First things first: I would like to thank everybody who replied to my question about repairing failed joints/bonds. I didn't know that we had EAA Technical Advisors on this list (Ron Freiberger) ... I am an EAA National and Chapter member (211 Grand Haven, MI & 185 Windsor, Ontario, Canada) - I am in Grand Rapids, MI so my advisors are quite some distance from me. This list helped bring an advisor and experienced volunteers "right beside me" during a time of need. Thanks again everybody! Now, here is another question about bonds/joints: I finally received my T-88 epoxy and I am in the process of creating my Test Joints. I am doing a few perpendicular bonds as well as lateral bonds. This is my plan to test the bonds: 1) Perp. & Lateral - after 24 hours 2) Perp. & Lateral - after 3 days 3) Perp. & Lateral - after 5 days When I smack these suckers with a hammer I should expect to destroy the wood around the joint but not the epoxy joint itself, correct? Also, I did some reading on exactly how epoxy is able to create and maintain a bond between 2 surfaces. Chemically, epoxy is a long-chain polymer. As it absorbs into the material it works its way through its molecular structure and basically "grips" onto it. The pressure applied is to squeeze out the excess and to devoid the epoxy of air. Does this sound correct? ... Thanks in advance. Albert Pecoraro Kentwood, MI 49508 616-281-3828 (H) 616-247-2803 (W) apec97@hotmail.com http://fly.to/hangar-AP <--- Click on the Eagle! KR-2S - Building the spars ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Kr engine mounts and nose gear installation. From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:18:10 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 Hello tri-gear heads, I'm starting to collect hardware for my upcoming KR project. One of my up-front decisions is to go with a tri-gear setup. Now I know that the easiest way to go is with the Diehl setup, and I may end up doing that, but, I have another idea that I will explore first. Part of that is a simple easy to fabricate steerable nose wheel. Right now, I'm in the middle of deciding to buy a HAPI accessory case with the starter on the bottom, or a Diehl Case with the starter on the top. Does anyone have any ideas on how the starter location will impact my nose wheel mount?? Not having ever seen either setup, I don't have any idea as to how this will workout. Thanks for any info/ideas, WD -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, NC mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: Bobby Muse Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:23:24 -0600 X-Message-Number: 12 At 06:52 AM 02/24/1999 -0000, you wrote: >Due to fuel burn, the perfect place for fuel is right on your CG, so that your CG doesn't shift as you fly. A header tank is something like 14-16 inches forward of your CG, while a wing tank's centroid is about 6-8" aft of your CG. That means the CG shift experienced during a given flight in which fuel goes from full to empty is cut in half. That's a big number. Now there are other perfectly valid reasons for having a header tank, gravity feed being the biggest one, and side to side CG shift (the Mims mentioned) being another. But the biggest problem with the header tank up front is as you fly your CG moves aft, and when it comes time to land your CG has moved as far aft as it will be during your flight. I'd much rather have half the CG shift with wing tanks, and have my CG move forward during the flight. That way when you land, your plane will be at its forward CG, not its aft, meaning most stable, not most unstable. >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama Mark, you're right, but would not best the solution be wing tanks(fore and aft of the main spar) with small header tank? Say, a header tank that stayed full all of the time...say no bigger than what's required for a 30 minute flight(emergency flight time). Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Joint Bond Failure ... From: Steven Eberhart Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:40:06 -0600 (CST) X-Message-Number: 13 On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Albert Pecoraro wrote: [snip] > > Now, here is another question about bonds/joints: I finally received my > T-88 epoxy and I am in the process of creating my Test Joints. I am > doing a few perpendicular bonds as well as lateral bonds. This is my > plan to test the bonds: > > 1) Perp. & Lateral - after 24 hours > 2) Perp. & Lateral - after 3 days > 3) Perp. & Lateral - after 5 days > > When I smack these suckers with a hammer I should expect to destroy the > wood around the joint but not the epoxy joint itself, correct? > I just read something this week about test blocks that said that they should be tested in a vise rather than smacking with a hammer. Since I have been living out of a hotel room for the past two weeks it shouldn't be too hard to find the article in the stack of reading material I brought with me. Will post the referrence tomorrow. Steve Eberhart ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fw: 1700 lb KR2 From: "Kobus de Wet" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:56:14 +0200 X-Message-Number: 14 That should be conventional type I suppose. HA HA Kobus de Wet Cape Town South Africa GMT +2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw -----Original Message----- From: Kobus de Wet To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 17:24 Subject: [kr-net] 1700 lb KR2 Hi all you netters. Well after having been off the air for almost a month ( Computer cashed in and I had to wait for the local release of a new chip) here I am back again. 800 e-mail's in the box and it took me a day to work through all that. Q1. Who gets the panel planner next. Fact 1. Locally we have a KR-2 flying at 1700 Lbs. all up weight. I do not have to many facts regarding the beast (Concrete mixer) but I do know that the motor is 150 Hp confessional and it has wingletts on the main planes (wings), retractable gear and the owner operator is a 747 captain. I plan on getting hold of the guy to give me some more info. and will see if I can get hold of some pictures to post on my web site. Cheers Kobus de Wet Cape Town South Africa GMT +2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jfdewet@intekom.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: C-85 for sale From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:09:01 EST X-Message-Number: 15 KRNetters: From the DFly list. Respond to the seller, not KRNet or me. I think this is similar to what Jeff Scott has on the nose of his trusty steed to make the fan work. Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have a C-85-12F with all accessories (carb, mags, oil tank, etc) which was running fine when removed from my Cessna 140 for O-200 upgrade. The engine has about 2400 TT, 1300 STO, .015 overbore cylinders, and all logs. $2800 503-292-5762 Portland, Oregon -Jim Garver mailto:k7yo@att.net http://www.qsl.net/k7yo/3170n.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: "RONALD R. EASON" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:15:03 -0600 X-Message-Number: 16 For what it's worth, I have a header tank that is a 7 gal fuel cell which gravity flows to the engine. Each wing tank ( mounted outboard ) has it own fuel pump. The fuel level in the header tank is controlled by a float switch. The tank was purchased from JUGS for $100.00( they are on the internet ) a performance accessory shop. The tank is polyproplene with open cell foam filler to prevent sloshing of fuel, fuel cap, 2- 3/8" out/inlet, 1/4" vent. It actually is built for dragsters and they are light weight. I have a fuel management controller you can build on our web site at jrl-engineering.com >> Saunders wrote: >> >> Thanks for the response, I guess I should have been a little more >> specific, My wing tanks will be in the outboard wings only, 50 inches >> long.>>>> > >From what I understand this may not be a good idea. The little KRs tend >to get wing heavy with a slight imbalance of fuel load when the tanks >are in the outboard sections of the wing. There is a KR pilot at my >airport (actually he is on this list, you there Larry?) who once told me >he wished he would have built a header tank. Maybe he will comment on >this? Larry hello, you there? :o) > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Still Building the Cowling... >mailto:mikemims@home.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Aliso Viejo Ca >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jrlkc@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Joint Bond Failure ... From: Donald Reid Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:21:12 -0500 X-Message-Number: 17 Albert Pecoraro wrote: > Also, I did some reading on exactly how epoxy is able to create and > maintain a bond between 2 surfaces. Chemically, epoxy is a long-chain > polymer. As it absorbs into the material it works its way through its > molecular structure and basically "grips" onto it. The pressure applied > is to squeeze out the excess and to devoid the epoxy of air. > > Does this sound correct? ... Correct, just remember that excessive pressure does not make a stronger joint with epoxy glue systems. Too much pressure will leave insufficient glue to make an acceptable joint. Epoxy joints require little pressure during cure. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: "Mark Langford" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:22:25 -0000 X-Message-Number: 18 Bobby Muse wrote: >Mark, you're right, but would not best the solution be wing tanks(fore and >aft of the main spar) with small header tank? Say, a header tank that >stayed full all of the time...say no bigger than what's required for a 30 >minute flight(emergency flight time). Bobby, I've considered doing exactly that. The only reason I didn't was introducing fuel into the cockpit and the complexity of trying to keep the little header tank full without overflowing. You could add a level switch and an overflow, but there's the complexity I was trying to avoid. Besides, I don't need gravity flow. If I needed gravity flow, I'd certainly reconsider. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Progress update HUD From: "RONALD R. EASON" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:39:19 -0600 X-Message-Number: 19 Did you get a chance to look on the web page? At 05:03 PM 2/18/99 EST, you wrote: >im interested.email me with details....thank Joe > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jrlkc@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:22:05 -0800 X-Message-Number: 20 My tanks are in the outboard section of the wings (25.5 inches long starting 6 inches out from the inboard rib in the outer wing panel, 7 gal each) along with a 9 gallon header tank. It takes a 3 gallon difference for the plane to start feeling a little wing heavy. I tested to the full difference (7 on one side and 0 on the other) during flight testing and found the plane to be controllable in all phases of flight, although it was a bit wing heavy. I would think that longer tanks would tend to exagerate the differential loading as there would be more leverage offset from the center of lift. I use gravity feed to the carb from the header tank and periodically top off the header from the wings. That generally keeps my CG moving slightly forward during flight. Once I start drawing down the header tank (wing tanks empty), the worst case I get is the CG moving back to where it was when I started with full tanks. Since I rarely draw the header tank all the way down, the CG generally stays the same or may move slightly forward during the course of a long cross country flight. One last comment about fuel tanks. If I was building my plane over again(with the same tail configuration), I would baffle the tanks front-to-back as well as side-to-side as the fore and aft shifts of fuel in three tanks while bouncing through turbulance tends to exagerate the pitch sensativity of the plane. It's more stable with all the tanks full or the wing tanks empty. Jeff On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:06:03 -0800 Mike Mims writes: >> Saunders wrote: >> >> Thanks for the response, I guess I should have been a little more >> specific, My wing tanks will be in the outboard wings only, 50 inches >> long.>>>> > >From what I understand this may not be a good idea. The little KRs tend >to get wing heavy with a slight imbalance of fuel load when the tanks >are in the outboard sections of the wing. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Still Building the Cowling... > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: C-85 for sale From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:55:38 -0800 X-Message-Number: 21 That is indeed exactly the same engine I have. The problem I see with this one is that a C-85 is only an 1800 hour TBO engine and he has 2400 on it. I'd part with my 1600 hour engine $3000 and you can come test fly it first. :o) Jeff On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:09:01 EST BSHADR@aol.com writes: > >KRNetters: > >From the DFly list. Respond to the seller, not KRNet or me. I think this is >similar to what Jeff Scott has on the nose of his trusty steed to make the fan >work. > >Randy Stein >Soviet Monica, CA > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >I have a C-85-12F with all accessories (carb, mags, oil tank, etc) >which was running fine when removed from my Cessna 140 for O-200 upgrade. >The engine has about 2400 TT, 1300 STO, .015 overbore cylinders, and all logs. >$2800 >503-292-5762 Portland, Oregon >-Jim Garver >mailto:k7yo@att.net >http://www.qsl.net/k7yo/3170n.html Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Franklin engines From: "JEAN" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:40:52 -0600 X-Message-Number: 22 Mike Martins firewall is stock but he did use channel aluminum on the aft side as was recommended some time back. I'm not sure what size. I'll ask him some time. Incidently he is getting married this saturday and hasn't spent any time at the airport for months. For what its worth I bonded a new firewall to N4DD first for shape ( KR-2S style ) and secondly because the original was just 1/4" lumberyard plywood not aircraft or marine. After 21 years it showed no sign of failure but since i was hanging the O-200 I thought it would be best. I also did the -2S reinforcement to the sides of the upper longerons plus I tied it together with 3 layers of 3" unidirectional glass. Jean -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:13 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Franklin engines >JEAN wrote: >> >> . Martin Roberts KR has > many hours with an O-200 with short wings. >> Jean >> N4DD > >Jean do you know if Martin's firewall is stock or if he made mods to it >what where they? > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Still Building the Cowling... >mailto:mikemims@home.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Aliso Viejo Ca >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: N4DD@prodigy.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: 2-S wing tanks From: Ron Freiberger Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:49:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 23 A header tank is a very convenient wy to fly. For one think, it lets you vary the loading if necessary, and lets you suck those wing tanks DRY by pumping to the main while running on the main. It's nice to move it all up where you know it's location near the end of a flight, not sloshing around in flat fuel tanks. If relatively small and high, it will apparently fuel a GPAC carb or an ellison in a pich Like electrical failure or pump failure... Plumb up with a low cracking pressure check valve from aircraft spruce to bypass fuel pumps. Be sure to go to the Ellison web pages and read all the good info there. Ron Freiberger Origional There is a KR pilot at my airport (actually he is on this list, you there Larry?) who once told me he wished he would have built a header tank. Maybe he will comment on this? Larry hello, you there? :o) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR outer wings. From: "JEAN" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:52:04 -0600 X-Message-Number: 24 One thing that we have in our hangar is a pair of adapters that bolt to the outer wing pannels at the wing attach fittings and fit our engine stand. This allows you to position the wing at the best angle for glassing. They have been worth their weight in gold. Jean N4DD -----Original Message----- From: KR2616TJ@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 8:40 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR outer wings. >In a message dated 2/24/99 1:38:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, >Tlongcrier@aol.com writes: > ><< Is there a proceedure for glassing the outer wings without turning the >plane > upside down? >> > >You're going to find this nearly impossible to do. Go look at Mike Mims' web >page for the famous flip-o-matic. It works wonderfully well and trust me, it >is good to have on hand because glassing the bottom of your wings will not be >the last time you need to have the airplane upside down. You can build the >flip-o-matic in no time. With this arrangement, all it takes is two adults >and a couple kids on each wingtip to flip a nearly complete KR. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: YCGB97A@prodigy.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: New web page From: Kerry Miller Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:26:56 -0600 X-Message-Number: 25 If any of you guys are really bored, you can check out my new KR progress report web page: http://www.flash.net/~kmiller Click the link just under the pix I stole of Adrian Carter's KR. There are several pictures so it might take a minute to load. Kerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: GPAC Strobes From: GREG S MARTIN Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:40:59 -0800 X-Message-Number: 26 Joe Yes, I would like to have the information on the strobe lights. My name is Greg Martin, 1783 Glenwood Ct., Bakersfield, CA 93306. Let me know of the charge for the mailing and material. Greg Martin On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:55:40 EST CruzJ12@aol.com writes: >If anyone is interested in building strobe lights, i have schematics >from >Visual Flight Safety. I bought the plans back in early 80's . Built 2 >sets >and they work just fine. > I tried to upload these to the krnet but was unable ,for the >bmp 's are >too big ........... seven pages . email me with an address and i >will >upload them . > > >Joe > > > > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: idrawtobuild@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR outer wings. From: Michael Taglieri Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:05:13 EST X-Message-Number: 27 >One thing that we have in our hangar is a pair of adapters that bolt to the >outer wing pannels at the wing attach fittings and fit our engine stand. >This allows you to position the wing at the best angle for glassing. >They have been worth their weight in gold. Do you mean that you're glassing the outer wings not on the fuselage, or that these adapters move the angle of the whole fuselage around? Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com