From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 1:21 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: April 05, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Monday, April 05, 1999. 1. Re: Accident Site 2. Re: Canopies (was itty bitty update) 3. Re: 9 inch engine mount extension 4. Re: I AM SCARED 5. Re: Control Pushrod Routing 6. Re: I AM SCARED 7. Re: dead mans turn. 8. Re: side mount control stick 9. Re: I AM SCARED 10. Re: 9 inch engine mount extension 11. Re: 9 inch engine mount extension 12. Found former owner 13. Shimming the gear further forward 14. VW Parts For Sale 15. Another 1835 VW For Sale 16. Dragonfly canopy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Accident Site From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 03:45:24 -0400 X-Message-Number: 1 At 11:41 PM 4/4/99 -0600, you wrote: Hi Rod, It works fine for me. Maybe just overloaded when you tried it. WD >Hey anyone. Every time I try to go the the ntsb site I get a 404 Not >found. >Is this the correct address, or is it my computer? > >Rod Kelso >Denver, Colorado > >---------- >> From: SClay10106@aol.com >> To: KR-net users group >> Subject: [kr-net] Accident Site >> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 10:47 PM >> >> the guy was asking for the accident web page earlier here is a better >> location straight to it http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.htm >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rbk@orci.com >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dodger@coincidental.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Canopies (was itty bitty update) From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:20:45 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 Has anyone purchased a Dragonfly canopy recently? What's the going price? -Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 9 inch engine mount extension From: "Richard Parker" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 03:31:23 PDT X-Message-Number: 3 Tom, how did you calculate your CG without knowing what your completed fuselage weight was? I assume you just took a target weight and subtracted your firewall forward package? I'm about to make my engine mount and will probably need that long nose with the ea-81. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: I AM SCARED From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:30:31 EDT X-Message-Number: 4 In a message dated 4/4/99 9:50:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SClay10106@aol.com writes: << This is not the big concern things happen it just seems that if the engine does quit the plane doesn't wanna act right its not like a cessna trim the plane and keep flying they seem to wanna nose down or spin can anyone fill me in on this is it really a problem. >> I think you will notice that in the reports, the sentence that followed the engine failure report was "pilot attempted to turn back to the airport". My original flight instructor, of many years ago, called this the "dead man's turn" and followed it with an over simplified statement just to make his point of "if it took an engine to get you that far, what makes you think you can go the same distance without an engine". Think about it, engine out on climbout, holding elevator to maintain altitude, speed bleeding off, now coming in with ailerons..............snap into a SPIN. Don't try and save the airplane, save you ass. Now that I'm off the soapbox:-), I think you will find that most of the engine out problems were a result of improperly installed parts or fuel flow problems. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Control Pushrod Routing From: "Richard Parker" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 06:24:44 PDT X-Message-Number: 5 I think it would be good practice to design for a complete seat bottom failure and put a tunnel that will support your weight without deformation over the pushrods. Rich Parker >>If you do decide to run that pushrod under the seat - keep in mind that the >>pushrod will go up and down a bit as it moves back and forth, although not >>much (0.4 in,) you have to plan that into your spacing, otherwise it won't >>allow you to fully deflect the elevator, or worse - it would get stuck. >> >>The fiberglass seats might just give you the clearance, but it would depend >>on which ones you decide to go with. Having built a VW Sandrail, I recall >>that some of those seats can be fairly deep. The other thing to keep in >>mind, is that if you start pulling positive Gs, fiberglass seats will deform >>slightly pushing your backside closer to your control. So, allow for this in >>your spacing as well. >> >>Dean > >Keep in mind that that space under the seat may DISAPPEAR because you need >the head clearance. I am 5'10" and am having to drop the seats basically >to the bottom so I have head clearance. > >Ron Lee > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: I AM SCARED From: "Richard Parker" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 06:35:07 PDT X-Message-Number: 6 And a lot of us young spam can fliers are used to depending on the stall warning horn to go off. I havent seen a stall warning horn on a kr yet. I learned a long time ago not to depend on one especially on the rental fleet. RP >From: Mike Mims >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: I AM SCARED >Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 19:29:20 -0700 > >SClay10106@aol.com wrote: >> >> This is not the big concern things happen it just seems that if the engine does quit the plane doesnt wanna act right its not like a cessna trim the plane and keep flying they seem to wanna nose down or spin can anyone fill me in on this is it really a problem. and is it better to spend the extra on something better than a vw engine?>>>>> > > >A couple things to remember. > >1) Most flying VWs are homebrewed conversions by people who shouldn't be >brewing at all and in the 70s (when the KR was in its peak) VW >conversions were much less reliable than they are now. Buy your parts >from someone who has been around for a while and you will be fine. > >2) The KR is a light airplane for one and secondly is flown with the CG >a little too far aft most of the time. Anytime you fly an airplane as >light as the KR and with the CG a little aft all hell breaks lose when >you lose power. The nose will pitch up and you will lose airspeed vary >quickly. If you stall it will take much longer to recover, that's if >you recover at all. > >Build your plane, balance it right and use a good conversion made out of >NEW parts. You will do just fine. Remember its almost always ok to be >nose heavy but its NEVER ok to be tail heavy. > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... >mailto:mikemims@home.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Aliso Viejo Ca >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: dead mans turn. From: "Richard Parker" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 06:44:06 PDT X-Message-Number: 7 In my passenger brief before taking off I tell them that if we lose the engine before 1000 AGL we are not turning back to the airport and that I want them to open the door on my command and let them know that I'm getting out once we come to a stop so they had better be out in front of me. RP >From: KR2616TJ@aol.com >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: I AM SCARED >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:30:31 EDT > >In a message dated 4/4/99 9:50:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >SClay10106@aol.com writes: > ><< This is not the big concern things happen it just seems that > if the engine does quit the plane doesn't wanna act right its not like a > cessna trim the plane and keep flying they seem to wanna nose down or spin > can anyone fill me in on this is it really a problem. >> > >I think you will notice that in the reports, the sentence that followed the >engine failure report was "pilot attempted to turn back to the airport". My >original flight instructor, of many years ago, called this the "dead man's >turn" and followed it with an over simplified statement just to make his >point of "if it took an engine to get you that far, what makes you think you >can go the same distance without an engine". Think about it, engine out on >climbout, holding elevator to maintain altitude, speed bleeding off, now >coming in with ailerons..............snap into a SPIN. Don't try and save >the airplane, save you ass. > >Now that I'm off the soapbox:-), I think you will find that most of the >engine out problems were a result of improperly installed parts or fuel flow >problems. > >Dana Overall >1999 KR Gathering host >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: side mount control stick From: NFCKR3@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:24:22 EDT X-Message-Number: 8 I have the side stick and am doing drawings for it now. I also have a set of photos of same. I hope to get it all together after Sun N Fun. Skip Carden and 250KB ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: I AM SCARED From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:41:02 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 Dana has a good point there about needing the engine to get you that far. This is a good example of why an underpowered airplane is dangerous. A high-powered plane can climb faster than the sink rate of the plane and help out in this regard, although the dead man's turn takes a whole lot more altitude than anybody thinks. Practice this crap at altitude so you can make a skilled decision when the day comes. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: KR2616TJ@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 7:22 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: I AM SCARED >In a message dated 4/4/99 9:50:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >SClay10106@aol.com writes: > ><< This is not the big concern things happen it just seems that > if the engine does quit the plane doesn't wanna act right its not like a > cessna trim the plane and keep flying they seem to wanna nose down or spin > can anyone fill me in on this is it really a problem. >> > >I think you will notice that in the reports, the sentence that followed the >engine failure report was "pilot attempted to turn back to the airport". My >original flight instructor, of many years ago, called this the "dead man's >turn" and followed it with an over simplified statement just to make his >point of "if it took an engine to get you that far, what makes you think you >can go the same distance without an engine". Think about it, engine out on >climbout, holding elevator to maintain altitude, speed bleeding off, now >coming in with ailerons..............snap into a SPIN. Don't try and save >the airplane, save you ass. > >Now that I'm off the soapbox:-), I think you will find that most of the >engine out problems were a result of improperly installed parts or fuel flow >problems. > >Dana Overall >1999 KR Gathering host >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 9 inch engine mount extension From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:43:54 -0400 X-Message-Number: 10 I calculated how far I'd have to move the 135lb engine forward to equal the moment of the 189lb VW the 2S was built for. I'm assuming the thing would balance ok with that engine after all, it was carefully designed with numerous prototypes and various engine combinations, right? -Tom Tongue planted in cheek -----Original Message----- From: Richard Parker To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 6:21 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 9 inch engine mount extension > >Tom, >how did you calculate your CG without knowing what your completed >fuselage weight was? > >I assume you just took a target weight and subtracted your firewall >forward package? > >I'm about to make my engine mount and will probably need that long nose >with the ea-81. > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 9 inch engine mount extension From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:13:16 -0400 X-Message-Number: 11 Before everyone says hey that don't add up, let me add that although the difference in the engine weights came out to only about 2.5 inches of extension when I factored in the additional 24lb BRS system in the rear turtledeck, and the difference of wing tanks aft of the CG, my larger tail surfaces, the tailwheel, the birch ply fuse sides, etc, I decided the mount would have to be ridiculously long to give me the CG flexibility I want. The low 65hp rating of the 1835 and lack of electrics were factors too. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Andersen To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 6:34 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 9 inch engine mount extension >I calculated how far I'd have to move the 135lb engine forward to equal the >moment of the 189lb VW the 2S was built for. I'm assuming the thing would >balance ok with that engine after all, it was carefully designed with >numerous prototypes and various engine combinations, right? >-Tom >Tongue planted in cheek >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Parker >To: KR-net users group >Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 6:21 AM >Subject: [kr-net] Re: 9 inch engine mount extension > > >> >>Tom, >>how did you calculate your CG without knowing what your completed >>fuselage weight was? >> >>I assume you just took a target weight and subtracted your firewall >>forward package? >> >>I'm about to make my engine mount and will probably need that long nose >>with the ea-81. >> >> >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> >> > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Found former owner From: "Paul W. O'Reilly" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:50:58 -0400 X-Message-Number: 12 Thanks to the tips found here, I was able to find the former owner of the= engine I just purchased. He is Joe Beltz who sold his ac years ago to someone in Nashua NH. Yellow freight terminated the plane. The engine wi= ll undergo lots of tests and be hung later this summer. First flight just g= ot closer. Thanks again all - Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Shimming the gear further forward From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:29:35 -0400 X-Message-Number: 13 I've heard that the mains could be further forward on the 2S with the Diehle gear in conventional configuration. I was thinking of shimming the bottom of the gear castings out about a 1/2" to move the wheels futher forward. Are they too far forward already? I would make two pieces about 2" wide and the length of the gear casting directly over the center spar caps, floxed on and sanded to the necessary angle. Any problems to doing this? I'm going to have a further forward CG than KR's with header tanks. -Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: VW Parts For Sale From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:28:41 EDT X-Message-Number: 14 KREngineHeads: This off the DFly list. Email him direct. Not the list or me. Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am upgrading my DF engine 1835cc to 2276cc, I have some leftover parts that could use a good home. All parts have about 80 hrs on them. 69mm demello counterweighted crank machined for prop hub and deep drilled . Prop hub, IVO prop, in flight adjustable, (needs new blades) Set of ballanced rod. Hydrolic cam and new lifters Happy case machined for 92s I dont want a fortune for these parts, so if you are interested e-mail me at Imagine50@aol.com Allan N59RJ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Another 1835 VW For Sale From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:29:03 EDT X-Message-Number: 15 VWHeads: Most be the start of spring cleaning on the DFly list. Please respond to the poster and not the list or me. Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: panzera@cnetech.com (Patrick Panzera) I've decided to sell my zero time HAPI 1835cc engine. I purchased it with my project, from the guy who bought it new in 1983. It has a Slick magneto mounted in the accessory case, an internal 20a alternator, and electronic ignition (2 sets of plugs per cylinder), with a Poza carb, intake manifold and 4 single exhaust pipes. It also comes with a 52x42 (or is it a 54x42?)Great American prop, and aluminum spinner. I'm asking $2500.00 plus shipping, and I'll include the engine stand and engine mount. Click here for photos: http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/Dragonfly/images/ENGINE.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/Dragonfly/images/ENGINE2.JPG Pat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Dragonfly canopy From: "John M. Wadleigh" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:56:56 -0700 X-Message-Number: 16 I just ordered a dragonfly canopy. They come in clear, green, and light grey tint. The dark grey (almost black) canopy is no longer made due to safety reasons. These canopies can be purchased from: Slipstream Industries (formerly bushplane) http;//www.si-inc.com/dragonfly/viking/ I purchased a light grey tint canopy for $555.00 - not including shipping. John Wadleigh KR2S Tucson, Az. jwnw1@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com