From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 12:16 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: April 10, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Saturday, April 10, 1999. 1. Re: A great day! (Chinokosh?) 2. Re: flutter 3. Re: flutter 4. flutter (simple version) 5. Re: Introduction 6. Thanks for your support! 7. KR-net's ISP host now offers nationwide service 8. get 9. Sun-N-Fun question 10. RE: Thanks for your support! 11. Re: flutter 12. Looping on the ground; never a good idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A great day! (Chinokosh?) From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:48:34 EDT X-Message-Number: 1 Beginning to wonder if you ever sleep. Just got my spinner from Great Plains and its about time to order a prop. Still have much work to do but am working in an unheated garage so do things during the winter when I can't firbreglas or glue anything. Just finished wireing the instrument panel. Am looking for a radio stack but only have 13" behing the panel. Steve ( Great Plains) recommends only a wooden prop and I hear Ed's props are the best. He moved to Florida and does not advertise to the best of my knowledge. Do you happen to have a phone number. Still have to build the turtle deck, canopy and stub wings and the fuselage is finished. Trying to decide on electric or hard wire trim. Plan to put in a rudder trim also. Main problem is an access plate to inspect the parts in the top of the fuselage. Hate to see the plates but want to see the parts from time to time. Hope you got your ailerons done. Tnks Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: flutter From: "J.C. MARAIS" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:29:18 +0200 X-Message-Number: 2 Donald, While we are on this island.... WHAT is meant by "over-balanced"? JC Donald Reid wrote: > > Juergen Esser wrote: > > > > I have a general question: what causes flutter and what can I do against it. > > When I was in Oshkosh last year I listened to a lecture about > > rudder-balancing to prefent flutter, but I do not know all the details any > > more (under or over-balancing). > > The real description is much to involved to go into in this type of > forum. It involves lots of math and diagrams and hand waving. The > simple answer is that balanced is better than not and over-balanced a > bit is generally better than balanced. > > -- > Don Reid > Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com > KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jcmarais@lantic.co.za > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: flutter From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:21:54 -0700 X-Message-Number: 3 "J.C. MARAIS" wrote: > > Donald, > > While we are on this island.... > > WHAT is meant by "over-balanced"? More than 100% -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Friends don't let Friends fly behind Ivo Props! But Ed Sterba Props are GREAT! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: flutter (simple version) From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:55:41 -0700 X-Message-Number: 4 Here is a simple version of what flutter is. If a control surface is not balanced (maintains a level attitude when suspended from the hinge) then the CG of the control surface is considered to be aft of the hinge line. So,.... When the wing (or any flight surface) moves up (or down) because of a gust the control surface will lag behind because it is hinged and the CG is aft of that hinge. So if the wing moves up and the aileron lags (moves down) this can twist the flight surface so its nose points downward, this causes the wing to move down and with the aileron lagging behind it moves up, this can cause the nose of the wing to twist upward causing it to move back up and the aileron lags behind and causes the nose of the wing to move down,.........repeat until destruction. So a combination of things contributes to flutter 1) unbalanced control surfaces 2) flight surfaces that are too flexible for certain speed (the faster you go the stiffer the wing must be) 3) slop in control system and hinges (homebuilders are most guilty of this one I think) What can we do? 1) balance all movable surfaces (I did this) 2) make flight surfaces stiffer (I did this too) 3) make sure control system is nice and tight IE no slop (mine is) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Introduction From: FLYKR2S@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:31:36 EDT X-Message-Number: 5 Hi fellow KR builders/flyers. Just joined on yesterday. I' m exactly one year into building my KR-2S. N886MJ is sitting on Diehl tri-gear with all the major wood work done. The instrument panel is temporarily installed with instruments in place. Stick and rudder and all control cables are installed. Ihave installed a fiberfrax and stainless steel face on the firewall and mounted the Great Plains five point motor mount. I have built a mold for my header tank and will be glassing this soon. I have also modified the fuselage width in the cockpit area by three inches for a little more shoulder room. I am planning on installing a Dragonfly canopy to accomodate the extra width. If any of you have a Dragonfly canopy (new or used) for sale please let me know. I have begun to to work on my turtle deck which is what I am doing today. Guess I had better get back to the garage before my wife yells it's time to go. We have a baby due TODAY!!!! My e-mail is flykr2s@aol.com. Glad to be online with all of you, Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Thanks for your support! From: Ross Youngblood Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:07:54 -0700 X-Message-Number: 6 I had a long week in Idaho, and got home late Friday night. As usual, there was a stack of mail waiting for me. This time however there were several KR-net donations with letters from KR-net supporters. I have to say that these letters were really great to read, as they always do, and I thought I'd make a note to thank all of those who take time out to send in a check and or a letter to support the KR-net fund. I'd also like to thank Randy Stein (the official KR-net whiner), and the other long time KR-netters out there who contribute email advice, and make this list work he way it does. For those who want to know where to send contributions, I like to keep a low profile, and not give out my address too often, but here it is: KR-net c/o Ross Youngblood 1109 NE Burke Pl Corvallis, OR 97330 I'm sorry I can't take time to thank everyone personally, in fact sometimes, I can't even keep it together to cash/deposit all the checks I recieve in a timely manner, but be sure that they are appriciated. To keep our costs down, and my paperwork to a minimum, I pay our KR-net Internet Service Provider bill on an annual basis every September. Teleport (http://www.teleport.com), is our Internet provider and gives us two months free per year if we purchase web space and list services annually. So, if you don't know where to contribute, be sure that we will turn up the heat a bit around July-August, to make sure we are covered in September. In the meantime, I have a seperate savings account for KR-net funds where your money sits until the bill comes due. -- Regards Ross Youngblood KR-net admin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR-net's ISP host now offers nationwide service From: Ross Youngblood Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:18:13 -0700 X-Message-Number: 7 Teleport, the Oregon based KR-net web host now offers nationwide ISP telephone service. Just in case some of you are not currently happy with the level of service you get with your current ISP, I thought I would let you know that Teleport may now be available in your area. To find out if there is a number in your area check http://www.teleport.com/info/numbers.phmtl If you mention krnet@teleport.com as the referal krnet gets a $10.00 credit, which will help keep us on the air! I can't say that this would be a good thing for anyone on the net, but you may want to check teleport out. For me, part of the attraction is that they are locally based, which doesn't add much to anyone else. Last time I checked, I couldn't find many ISP's that offered all the services Teleport did for the same price. Most wanted big $$$ for domain hosting "www.krnet.org". So it might be worth checking this out. -- Regards Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: get From: Ross Youngblood Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:20:35 -0700 X-Message-Number: 8 get kr-net 161365-162663 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Sun-N-Fun question From: "Brian J. Bland" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:58:30 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 Does anyone know if there is anyway to get from Tampa International Airport to Lakeland? I do not have a credit card so I can't rent a car. Really would like to fly down and spend a few days at Sun-N-Fun. - Brian J Bland Claremore, OK Mail to: brianbland@netzero.net http://www.flight2000.com/hangar/KR-2S/ ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Thanks for your support! From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:32:58 -0300 X-Message-Number: 10 Ross How can I, from Argentina, send you my support to KRnet? May be with VISA card? How much is this currently? I learn a lot of topics in the net and I also see that there are a frindship between the members. Congratulations all of you for the work and the spirit of fly. I hope to participate as wile I can handle my english. Eduardo Iglesias Santa Rosa La Pampa Argentina -----Mensaje original----- De: Ross Youngblood Para: KR-net users group Fecha: sábado, 10 de abril de 1999 16:08 Asunto: [kr-net] Thanks for your support! >I had a long week in Idaho, and got home late >Friday night. As usual, there was a stack of mail >waiting for me. This time however there were several >KR-net donations with letters from KR-net supporters. > >I have to say that these letters were really great to >read, as they always do, and I thought I'd make a note >to thank all of those who take time out to send in a >check and or a letter to support the KR-net fund. > >I'd also like to thank Randy Stein (the official KR-net >whiner), and the other long time KR-netters out there >who contribute email advice, and make this list work >he way it does. > >For those who want to know where to send contributions, >I like to keep a low profile, and not give out my address >too often, but here it is: > > KR-net > c/o > Ross Youngblood > 1109 NE Burke Pl > Corvallis, OR > 97330 > >I'm sorry I can't take time to thank everyone personally, in fact >sometimes, I can't even keep it together to cash/deposit all the >checks I recieve in a timely manner, but be sure that they are >appriciated. To keep our costs down, and my paperwork to a minimum, >I pay our KR-net Internet Service Provider bill on an annual basis every >September. Teleport (http://www.teleport.com), is our Internet provider >and gives us two months free per year if we purchase web space and >list services annually. > >So, if you don't know where to contribute, be sure that we will turn >up the heat a bit around July-August, to make sure we are covered >in September. In the meantime, I have a seperate savings account for >KR-net funds where your money sits until the bill comes due. > > -- Regards > Ross Youngblood > KR-net admin > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: flutter From: Donald Reid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:03:29 -0400 X-Message-Number: 11 J.C. MARAIS wrote: > > Donald, > > While we are on this island.... > > WHAT is meant by "over-balanced"? > > JC > Mike answered that at least as well as I could, that leaves me two things to add. 1 If the hinge line is low, the way to check the balance is with the control surface upside down. Everything else remains the same. 2 Dynamically balanced is better than statically balanced, but it is difficult to do. Statically balanced is typical of what we do. There is a large, relatively light area on one side of the hinge line, with the counterbalance being a concentrated, heavy mass in a localized area. Dynamically balanced can be approximated when any "slice" taken out of the control surface will balance along the hinge line. The ailerons on a Long-Ez or Vari-Ez are done like this. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Looping on the ground; never a good idea From: Ron Freiberger Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:15:18 -0500 X-Message-Number: 12 He said... Given its tendency to want to swap ends, seems the nose dragger version is a better engineered design. Assuming that the typical landing will be a hard surfaced runway with a crosswind. Don't worry about the typical... strive to make the exceptional surviveable Ron Freiberger --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com