From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 12:18 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: April 11, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Sunday, April 11, 1999. 1. Alternate wood. 2. Aft turtle deck 3. Re: I Posa de question 4. Re: Alternate wood. 5. Re: I Answera de Posa Question. 6. FW: POSA Tuning stuff 7. RE: Aft turtle deck 8. Elevator Bearing info needed 9. Re: Elevator Bearing info needed 10. Re: H.U.D. and Automatic Wing Fuel Tank Control Electronics 11. split flaps 12. Re: I Posa de question 13. Re: Airfoils ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Alternate wood. From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:46:29 EDT X-Message-Number: 1 Once again I missed it. I am making preparations to start building my new horizontal stab and elevator. I doing so I'm looking at three spars. The thickness is still the standard 5/8" thickness but the length is increased. What other types of wood can be used, other than the 8 weeks stuff from AS&S? I think Haris posted a phone number of a supplier of spruce that could ship the stuff quickly. Anything out there at our local lumber yards to be had? I'm guessing that AS&S shipping me my aft spar material so quickly had something to do with me hosting the KR Gathering this year and talking with marketing about them having a display at the gathering this year at the same time:-). Don't want to push my luck too far. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Aft turtle deck From: FLYKR2S@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:01:12 EDT X-Message-Number: 2 I am working on my aft turtle deck and will be installing a Dragonfly canopy (which I do not have yet). If any of you know the approximate height of the rear of the Dragonfly canopy above the longerons where it meets the front of the rear turtle deck, I would greatly appreciate any input you might have. WANTED TO BUY: DRAGONFLY CANOPY (new or used) Thanks, Mark Jones Waukesha, WI. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: I Posa de question From: Bobby Muse Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:52:28 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 At 11:22 PM 04/07/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >Reply to caryh@home.com >Web http://members.home.net/caryh >KR2 http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm >Ottawa Ontario Canada > >I was going through some KR material and came across another POSA article. >This one by Rex Taylor. Pardon my ignorance but I don't recognize the name. >The marquee indicates "President HAPI Engines Inc" and seems to be gleened >from March 1980 issue of Sport Aviation. > >If anyone is interested in it (5 pages with PHOTOGRAPHS!) I will dust off >the scanner and drop the results in my FTP site this weekend. >I'll be hapi to do it. > >- Cary - > > Cary, I would really like to any articles written br Rex Taylor on the Posa. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Alternate wood. From: "Brian J. Bland" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:50:25 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 >Western Aircraft has the KR2-S wood for $680.00US. >This is milled to spec, no lamination of spars they >are solid wood. Air freighted which is cheaper then >truck anywhere in the world. >If you want to contact him Jean Peters phone/fax 403- >276-3087 - Brian J Bland Claremore, OK Mail to: brianbland@netzero.net http://www.flight2000.com/hangar/KR-2S/ ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: I Answera de Posa Question. From: Bobby Muse Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:10:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 At 05:53 PM 04/08/1999 -0500, you wrote: >You will always be adjusting it, but you must first use the right tapered >rod, which gives you the right operation at both ends. Based on prior >experience, I gave mine away(came with the project) > >Ron Freiberger I've been flying with my Posa for five years and after getting it adjusted during the first couple of weeks, I have never adjusted the Posa. My Dad has been flying with his Posa since '84, NEVER a problem with the Posa. Jim Faughn is the expert on how to adjust the Posa. The secert is that you must select the neetle that runs best for your engine on the low or high end of the rpm range and reshape the needle to run good on the opposite end.(basicly) Jim Faughn posted a great article on this KRNet about two years ago on how to make these adjustments. Maybe someone still has a copy. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: FW: POSA Tuning stuff From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:41:19 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 The following email was sent to me earlier this year by Paul Martin. It's an email sent to him by Jim Faughn. I'll post it on my web site next time I do a little revamping, which is way overdue... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------------------------ I wish I could send a drawing of the finished needle because that would explain it better than I can with simply words, but I will try. The Posa has a major design flaw since the air intake is a non-liner opening (a circle) and the fuel needle is linear (Ground at a constant angle. Small at idle and large at full throttle.) The problem is that you will only be able to get the right fuel to air mixture at one setting of the so called carb. Therefore, you must change the needle to a non-linear shape to match the air intake. (This is easier than making a square out of a round hole.) The way I did this was, with the mixture control set full rich, set the air slide opening in the middle and adjust the needle for its optimum mixture setting. At this point you have the air and fuel mixture balanced at this throttle setting. Next you go to idle and you will be running rich. At idle you have two choices. First, you can change the adjustment on the carb to allow more air in through the small hole in the slide ( which is exposed at low RPM's) which was Posa's attempt to fix the problem, or you can build up the needle at that end with solder and scrape it so the fuel to air mixture is correct. ( I like to have it a little rich at idle in case I have to do an emergency go around and when I push for maximum throttle I have a little extra fuel to make up for the sudden inflow of air. Kind of like a pump circuit in a carburetor.) The same situation will exist at full throttle except Posa did not come up with a solution that I am aware of. . When you go to full throttle, the air from the maximum setting is not as much as the amount of fuel you will get from the needle. So, as you are experiencing, you will be rich. You might be able to adjust this out with the mixture setting, however, if you go to 10,500 ft as we did at the KR Gathering to meet the guys from Oklahoma, you won't have enough mixture adjustment left. Therefore the only answer I have heard and made work is to reshape the needle. Now comes the hard part, as if this message isn't too long already. To adjust the needle you need to make two measurements with a vernier caliper or a micrometer. These will tell you how much to build up your needle. First, go to full throttle with the airplane tied to something on the ground your mixture control at full rich. Then cut off the fuel to the engine and as someone on the net said, the engine will speed up since it is running rich. When the engine has stopped, shut of all mags and electric and get out of the plane without changing the throttle setting. Get access to the needle to the Posa from the front of the plane and put a vertical scrape on the needle. (#1) Next, get back in the plane and again start the engine (back to idle) and go to full throttle. This time lean the mixture out to the correct mixture according to either the EGT or RPM whichever method you have available. Again without changing any throttle or mixture setting, shut off the fuel and let the engine die. This time the engine shouldn't gain in RPM much at all. Shut everything off without moving the throttle or mixture controls and go around and make another vertical scrape on the needle. (#2) Finally, set the throttle (you can do this visually) with the air slide in the center. ( This is the point you had it running with the correct mixture without playing with the mixture) Make another vertical scrape on the needle. (#3) At this time you may remove the needle. Note: I counted the turns as I removed it to ensure when I put it back in I put the needle back in the exact same place. I did this by unscrewing one turn at a time and pulling on the needle with pliers until it came out. Now you have three scrapes on the needle. One in about the center, another near the end and another between. Thinnest Thick where it attached to the adjusting screw |_________________________________| 1 2 3 Measure with a Vernier the thickness at point 1 and at point 2. What you have to do is to build up the needle so it is the #2 thickness (less) at the #1 position. (Back to air fuel mixture theory - We are reducing the fuel that flows in since the air slide is not linear and didn't allow enough air in at full throttle to support the fuel.) Obviously this isn't the only point it has to be built up, instead it must be built up from point 3 all the way back to point 1 with point 1 ending up as the thickness of point 2. (If you aren't confused by now then God help us all). The way I did this was to get out my soldering gun and solder up the needle with a thin coat of solder just to the left of #3 building up to a thicker coat at point #1. Since you have the vernier measurements you can measure the thickness at point #1 and keep building up the solder until you get it right. Then after I built it up high enough I began scraping with a razor knife the solder to re taper the needle. This allowed me to change the thickness of the needle and ultimately get the right air to fuel mixture. The advantage of using solder is if you mess up you can do it again. What you are trying to do is make a non linear needle for fuel flow to match the curve of the non linear air slide. If you chose to do the idle end, (I did) all you have to do is repeat the process on the other end. GOOD LUCK. Perhaps this is too detailed for only words and I could be talked in to removing my needle at the next Gathering and with a few pictures I think I could make the explanation more understandable. The bottom line was that I am VERY happy with my Posa. I may be the only one in the world. My plugs burn a nice ash color and I have only changed them once in 170 hrs and I didn't have to then. Also, I would like to give special thanks to both Steve Bennett and Dan Diehl who got me on this track of re tapering the needle. I changed their procedure but they helped me understand what was wrong. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Aft turtle deck From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:41:23 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 > I am working on my aft turtle deck and will be installing a > Dragonfly canopy > (which I do not have yet). If any of you know the approximate > height of the > rear of the Dragonfly canopy above the longerons where it meets > the front of > the rear turtle deck, I would greatly appreciate any input you might have. This is just a little friendly advice, but I think I'd build my canopy frame first (around the canopy) and then worry about forward and aft decks. Otherwise you're sure to have to ungainly looking lines. Your canopy will determine the flow lines from canopy to tail, so your aft deck should should smooth them together, not determine them. Although the Dragonfly canopy is very flexible, you really don't want to blindly build a turtle deck, and then try to force a canopy to fit it. I'd think since you are building the aft deck from scratch that you'd be far better off to start with the canopy, and go from there. My Dragonfly canopy is 17.7 inches above the longerons at the center, which is very close to stock KR2S dimensions (scaled from the "plans"). To see some pictures of the Dragonfly canopy with respect to the longerons and stuff, check out http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcf.html . And if you back up to the web site at the bottom of that page, you'll be in a good position to look at how my aft deck was built (three times). This should answer all of your questions, but if not, there's a dimensioned drawing of the Dragonfly canopy aft edge at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/cnpy_aft.jpg . It is only 16" tall because my canopy frame is 1.5" tall. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Elevator Bearing info needed From: "Dean Collette" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:54:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 Netters, About a year ago, somebody posted a suggestion to KRNet regarding the use of Rod End bearings for the elevator hinges.Despite several searches through the archives, and my own collection of KRnet email - I cannot find this post. If anybody has any information at all about this, I would sure like to hear about it. Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin mailto:drdean@execpc.com Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Elevator Bearing info needed From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:20:44 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 Dean, The only one I know of who used rod end bearings for this purpose was Steve Bennett, Great Plains. Before he moved from Chicago to Nebraska he was working on a modified KR-2 with T-18 canopy, plywood wing skins, 2600cc VW plus other mods. Quite sure he sold the project before moving. He's no doubt at Sun N Fun so you should wait a couple weeks before trying to reach him. Ed Janssen -----Original Message----- From: Dean Collette To: KR-net users group Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:54 PM Subject: [kr-net] Elevator Bearing info needed >Netters, > >About a year ago, somebody posted a suggestion to KRNet regarding the use of >Rod End bearings for the elevator hinges.Despite several searches through >the archives, and my own collection of KRnet email - I cannot find this >post. > >If anybody has any information at all about this, I would sure like to hear >about it. > >Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin >mailto:drdean@execpc.com >Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ejanssen@chipsnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: H.U.D. and Automatic Wing Fuel Tank Control Electronics From: CruzJ12@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:32:40 EDT X-Message-Number: 10 I never flew anything with slit flaps . I am just interested in the tricycle gear for my kr2 and kr1. Kr2 has airbrake already. No flaps planned for the kr1. Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: split flaps From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:17:12 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 I forget who asked the question, but split flaps provide lift increases similar to plain flaps and have less drag when retracted (the gap is filled by the upper wing surface). The other advantage (which on some planes is a disadvantage) is than when deployed they provide very high drag. This is exactly what I want when I'm trying to get my KR2S to land when it's 2 feet off the ground in ground effect and floating forever. The only disadvantage for some planes is that you can't use them for short field takeoffs, but the KR jumps in the air pretty quickly as it is. If you can't take off from somewhere, you must have trailered it in to start with. I'm using split flaps to reduce landing speed (yes, much lower than the RAF48 with no or tiny flaps) and to slow me down when in ground effect. And they are terribly simple to build. I'm now doing that (when I have time) and that will be the subject of my next web site update. Lest you guys think I'm nuts, I ran this past Stu Robinson (the aero member of the team "design team") a few years ago (with most of my other planned modifications at the time) and he said I was right on target... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: I Posa de question From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:22:23 -0400 X-Message-Number: 12 Send the story on the Posa carb. to rwmoore@alltel.net Thanks, RWM -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Muse To: KR-net users group Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: I Posa de question >At 11:22 PM 04/07/1999 -0400, you wrote: >> >>Reply to caryh@home.com >>Web http://members.home.net/caryh >>KR2 http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm >>Ottawa Ontario Canada >> >>I was going through some KR material and came across another POSA article. >>This one by Rex Taylor. Pardon my ignorance but I don't recognize the name. >>The marquee indicates "President HAPI Engines Inc" and seems to be gleened >>from March 1980 issue of Sport Aviation. >> >>If anyone is interested in it (5 pages with PHOTOGRAPHS!) I will dust off >>the scanner and drop the results in my FTP site this weekend. >>I'll be hapi to do it. >> >>- Cary - >> >> > >Cary, I would really like to any articles written br Rex Taylor on the Posa. > > Bobby Muse > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Airfoils From: Glaeser <2501@oz.sunflower.org> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:52:45 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 Mike Mims wrote: > JKM001@aol.com wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > > > I was wondering if any of you know whicj airfoil the Taylorcraft uses. Any help would be appreciated.>>> > > They used a couple of different ones depending on year and model. What > model and or year are you talking about? The F19 and a few others used > the NACA 23015. In the beginning they used the same airfoil as the Cub > (Clark Y I think). > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings.. > mailto:mikemims@home.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Aliso Viejo Ca > Friends don't let Friends fly behind Ivo Props! > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: 2501@oz.sunflower.org > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com