From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:23 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: May 10, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Monday, May 10, 1999. 1. Type 4 crank 2. Pressure relief holes in spars. 3. RE: Pressure relief holes in spars. 4. Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. 5. Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. 6. WAF bolts. 7. VW Engines 8. Re: VW Engines 9. Re: VW Engines 10. Re: WAF bolts. 11. Re: VW Engines 12. Re: VW Engines 13. Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. 14. Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. 15. Re: Oops! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Type 4 crank From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:29:47 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 Dene Collett wrote: >The reason that I ask this is that I have designed a >housing that bolts to the case that places a double ball self aligning >bearing well forward of the case to absorb the gyroscopic loads, thereby >eliminating the need for the oversise bearing mod. comments? You're right that the external bearing will help with the fatigue life of the crank nose, but I think torsional vibration is the real crank killer, and the bearing won't help much in that department. The indestructible 4340 Scat crank has been tried, but I think even those have broken a time or two, for whatever reason. The real answer is running the prop off the flywheel end, where VW intended it to go. Leave the pulley end of the crank for spinning the alternator. Steve Bennett at Great Plains is now selling such a setup ( see it at http://www.greatplainsas.com/reardrv.html ), and will eventually sell an engine mount for the Type 4 too. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Pressure relief holes in spars. From: FLYKR2S@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:50:53 EDT X-Message-Number: 2 Hi Netters, In my reading of all the KR info out there, I found an interesting statement by a builder saying he drilled a small pressure relief hole in each chamber of the front and aft spars between each vertical member. Is this necessary for pressure relief? He stated this would keep the ply skins from popping loose at higher altitudes. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Pressure relief holes in spars. From: "Robert Sauer" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:33:40 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 YES There are also articles about some Glassairs and Lancairs that popped. I am looking into using a foam inside my gas tank similar to that used in race cars for safety from explosion and fire in the event of a crash. Was in Kitplanes about a month ago. > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-kr-net-49736@telelists.com > [mailto:bounce-kr-net-49736@telelists.com]On Behalf Of FLYKR2S@aol.com > Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 7:51 AM > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Pressure relief holes in spars. > > > Hi Netters, > > In my reading of all the KR info out there, I found an > interesting statement > by a builder saying he drilled a small pressure relief hole in > each chamber > of the front and aft spars between each vertical member. Is this > necessary > for pressure relief? He stated this would keep the ply skins from popping > loose at higher altitudes. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Waukesha, WI > flykr2s@aol.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: resauer@totalaccess.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:21:30 EDT X-Message-Number: 4 In a message dated 5/10/99 9:13:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FLYKR2S@aol.com writes: << I found an interesting statement by a builder saying he drilled a small pressure relief hole in each chamber of the front and aft spars between each vertical member. Is this necessary for pressure relief? He stated this would keep the ply skins from popping loose at higher altitudes >> It's not so much the higher altitudes that dictate the drilling of pressure relief holes but the pressure changes in attaining that altitude. Yes, the pressure change could conceivably cause the webbing/spar attachment areas to come apart in order to vent. I would imagine that before a box spar would "explode" all the pressure would have been released through the first area of delamination. Some people drill the verticals themselves and vent it at the WAF area, others drill a small hole in the webbing between each vertical member. Either way will accomplish the goal. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. From: Kimball Anderson Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:29:20 -0400 X-Message-Number: 5 Check out Dana Overall's article (Aft Spar Construction) on the FAQ. The very last picture of of the article shows where he drilled the pressure relief holes in his aft spar. You might have to look close, but you CAN see them in the picture. Kimball Anderson isleno@hargray.com -----Original Message----- From: FLYKR2S@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 9:14 AM Subject: [kr-net] Pressure relief holes in spars. >Hi Netters, > >In my reading of all the KR info out there, I found an interesting statement >by a builder saying he drilled a small pressure relief hole in each chamber >of the front and aft spars between each vertical member. Is this necessary >for pressure relief? He stated this would keep the ply skins from popping >loose at higher altitudes. > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Waukesha, WI >flykr2s@aol.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: isleno@hargray.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: WAF bolts. From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:18:18 EDT X-Message-Number: 6 What is everyone else using as the attachment bolts between the WAF (the 3/8" bolts), drilled with a castellated nut or undrilled with a fiberlock nut? Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: VW Engines From: FLYKR2S@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:34:45 EDT X-Message-Number: 7 Hi Netters, Could someone explain the difference between longblock and shortblock VW 2180 engines. Which is the one to use? Thanks, Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW Engines From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:51:36 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 >Could someone explain the difference between longblock and shortblock VW 2180 >engines. Which is the one to use? "Shortblock" usually means with no heads (think of a normal inline 4, which is kinda short with no head). "Longblock" has heads. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW Engines From: "Linda Bennett" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:31:35 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 The Short block is used if you already have the engine, but have "suffered" from a prop strike and need to replace items. Linda at Great Plains ---------- >From: "Mark Langford" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: VW Engines >Date: Mon, May 10, 1999, 5:51 PM > >>Could someone explain the difference between longblock and shortblock VW >2180 >>engines. Which is the one to use? > >"Shortblock" usually means with no heads (think of a normal inline 4, which >is kinda short with no head). "Longblock" has heads. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: gpasc@earthlink.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: WAF bolts. From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:19:48 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > What is everyone else using as the attachment bolts between the WAF (the 3/8" bolts), drilled with a castellated nut or undrilled with a fiberlock nut?>>>> My drawings indicate the use of a AN bolt with a locking nut. What do your say? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW Engines From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:37:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 11 On Mon, 10 May 1999 17:34:45 EDT FLYKR2S@aol.com writes: >Hi Netters, > >Could someone explain the difference between longblock and shortblock >VW 2180 >engines. Which is the one to use? > >Thanks, >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Waukesha, WI >flykr2s@aol.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jscott.pilot@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > I'm using undrilled bolts with fiberlock nuts. Since there is no motion in the hinges and no heat in the area, it is appropriate. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW Engines From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:56:37 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 jscott.pilot@juno.com wrote: > > > >Could someone explain the difference between longblock and shortblock VW 2180 engines. Which is the one to use? > > I'm using undrilled bolts with fiberlock nuts. Since there is no motion in the hinges and no heat in the area, it is appropriate. Would that be on your long block or your short block Jeff? :o) By the way check is here. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:11:20 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 FLYKR2S@aol.com wrote: > > In my reading of all the KR info out there, I found an interesting statement by a builder saying he drilled a small pressure relief hole in each chamber of the front and aft spars between each vertical member. Is this necessary for pressure relief? >>>> Before I get into this first let me say that yes it should be done. I did it on mine because it was easy to do during construction. That being said lets think about this for a minute. For the most part I think it would be safe to say that KRs fly at altitudes less than 10,000 above from which they departed. Lets say seven to eight thousand feet. So that equals 7 or so inches of mercury,.. correct? What does that equal in PSI? About 3.4 PSI. Not to mention the change in pressure will occur over a time span of say 10 to 15 minutes. Do you really think this is gonna blow your spars apart? We are not building wooden high altitude bombers here guys. Even at 10 inches (10,000 ft of altitude change) we are talking 4.9 Pounds per square inch. Now that being said, yes I think you should rip your wings back apart and dill the spars full of holes! :o) NOT!! Has anyone out there flown a KR without the holes and lived to tell about it? Please share! Also my math on this could be all screwed up and I could be talking out my butt so if this is true someone please set me straight. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pressure relief holes in spars. From: Warron Gray Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:45:31 -0400 X-Message-Number: 14 When I was building my spars for the "s" a while back I had the same question about those holes for Steve Makish and he related to me of an early builder whose spar had popped because of the lack of holes so i did it you all should too why tempt the gods any more than we have to. Warron ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Oops! From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:32:48 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 On Mon, 10 May 1999 17:56:37 -0700 Mike Mims writes: >jscott.pilot@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> >Could someone explain the difference between longblock and >>shortblock VW 2180 engines. Which is the one to use? >> > I'm using undrilled bolts with fiberlock nuts. Since there is no >motion in the hinges and no heat in the area, it is appropriate. > > >Would that be on your long block or your short block Jeff? :o) Must be on the Rotax. %^) I hate it when I reply to the wrong message. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com