From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:18 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: May 16, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Sunday, May 16, 1999. 1. Re: prop material 2. Re: instrument panel & trim tab 3. Re: Forming plexiglas 4. Re: instrument panel & trim tab 5. access panels & trim tab 6. strakes and such 7. Re: prop material 8. Motivation!! 9. Re: Motivation!! 10. Source of supply 11. horizontal stab 12. Re: access panels & trim tab 13. Re: horizontal stab 14. Re: horizontal stab 15. More on Fuel Gauges 16. Re: horizontal stab 17. Re: horizontal stab 18. Re: horizontal stab 19. Re: Smart Level 20. Re: More on Fuel Gauges 21. Re: New Pages/Database ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: prop material From: "The Stones" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 06:56:37 -0400 X-Message-Number: 1 -----Original Message----- From: MARVIN MCCOY snip > I just read Eric Clutton's book "Propeller making for the amateur" snip From where is Erics book available? Tim S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: instrument panel & trim tab From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 06:53:27 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 I saw a fellow using a servo with a 9v battery. He said the internal resistance of the battery precluded fast servo operation. He had it on a MiniMax. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: Larry Hall To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, May 15, 1999 8:25 PM Subject: [kr-net] instrument panel & trim tab >I have restoration of my kr about 75% >complete. I built a new panel and am >wondering about installing it solid. >Won't this have a lot of vibration? >Also, my trim tab, servo controlled, was >so fast you couldn't control it. The >only thing I have found to replace it is >the Mac unit from Aircraft spruce to >the tune of 175.00, which is larger and >heavier than my old one, but is a lot >slower reacting. Any suggestions? > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Forming plexiglas From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:58:26 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 Thanks to all who E'd suggestions. 250 degrees for 15 minutes worked perfectly in my wife's oven. Just have to trim the landing light covers and one more project is done. Have foamed tops of stub wings and next project is deciding on how to activate trim tabs, elevator and rudder. Like the idea of servos from Aircraft Spruce but still remember a run-away in a Turbo 210. Wire is safe but cumbersome to install and maintain. Any ideas?? Also, inspections plates. I like to be able to see pulley's, attachment bolts and other removable parts on an airplane. Right now my top gear attachment nuts have been covered up by the foam on the rear of the main spar on the stub wing. Another difficult point is the rear pulley for the elevator cables. An awkward place for an inspection plate. Has anyone solved these problems? Was at the last two years KR meetings in Perry but can't remember or didn't look at these items. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: instrument panel & trim tab From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:09:49 EDT X-Message-Number: 4 I mounted my instrument panel solid also. I'm told that the only real problem from viberation is that it will shorten the life of gyro driven instruments, either electric or air. I'm running an electric turn and bank and after looking at the KR, I decided that I wouldn't be doing a lot of instrument work, so if the T&B fails, so what. It solved the problem of an isolation panel for the gyro instrument. I'm trying to solve the trim tab problem myself. I'm sure someone has he answer. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: access panels & trim tab From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:41:37 -0700 X-Message-Number: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D02C91C4063D95C20926C0E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RFG842@aol.com wrote: > > > I'm trying to solve the trim tab problem myself. I'm sure someone has he answer. > > Bob If you don't want electric trim what's wrong with the way it done in the plans? It seems to work great. As for the access panels, my airplane has them in all the areas you mention. The aft pulleys for the elevator cables are covered by a hollow fairing (that I built from scratch, see my web site). This allowed me to cut an access hole and build a cover plate out of light sheet aluminum. It will ba attached with PK screws and the push on nuts. There is also two access panels for the elevator horn on each side of the tail and another access hole below the horizontal stab to gain access to the tail wheel spring bolts. The only place I don't have access too is the aileron cable pulley that's mounted on the main spar by the WAFs. I have been giving some thought to that lately and will come up with something. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --------------D02C91C4063D95C20926C0E1 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="tfair4.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="tfair4.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASwBLAAD//gCUVlQtQ29tcHJlc3MgKHRtKSBYaW5nIFRlY2hub2xv Z3kgQ29ycC4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAD/2wCEAAwICQoJBwwKCQoNDAwOEh4TEhAQEiQaGxUeKyYtLSomKikwNkU6MDNB MykqPFE8QUdJTU5NLjlUWlRLWkVLTUoBDA0NEg8SIxMTI0oxKjFKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpK SkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSv/AABEIAPABQAMBIQACEQEDEQH/ 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From all that I have read the joint formed by the leading edge of the horizontal stab and the strake cause a vortex that actually makes the elevator more effective. Lots of thoughts have been racing through my mind about strakes and I am almost convinced I need one on the vertical stab because of the extra HP and torque. If I have to take the time to build one for the vertical I may as well build them for the horizontal eh? :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: prop material From: Tlongcrier@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:30:12 EDT X-Message-Number: 7 Tim S - There is much information on prop making. The cheapest one I have seen is a book by Garth Hess, 881 Emory, Upland, CA 91788. $6.95. See his ad in Sport Aviation (Dec. '98). Or any reasonably late issue. He usually keeps an ad there. He is also a KR 2 builder, owner and flyer. He is the one that enclosed a venturi inside his fuselage. See also, Kitplanes classifieds, www.landings.com (Homebuilders link), etc. and our own KR links, archieves, past KR newsletters, etc.. Thurman Longcrier 726 E. Limestone St. Florence, Al 35630 256 8913 (TLongcrier@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Motivation!! From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:49:28 -0700 X-Message-Number: 8 If its been a while since you guys have checked out Adrian Carters web site and you need dome motivation I suggest you go take a look! I don't think it has changed much but it sure is good to see the construction portion of a KR followed up by flying pictures! His site is: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~cartera/const1.html in case yall lost it. I have a question for Adrian, it looks like you made some heat muffs out of old colem*n stove propane cans. Is that what those are? Could you share? If I remember right those things are pretty darn light. We used to set the almost empty cans next to a fire and step back 100 paces and shoot them with a rifle. Hey when you don't have any fireworks you do what you can on the 4th of JULY in the Alaskan bush! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Motivation!! From: cartera Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:06:35 -0600 X-Message-Number: 9 Mike Mims wrote: > > If its been a while since you guys have checked out Adrian Carters web > site and you need dome motivation I suggest you go take a look! I don't > think it has changed much but it sure is good to see the construction > portion of a KR followed up by flying pictures! His site is: > > http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~cartera/const1.html > > in case yall lost it. > > I have a question for Adrian, it looks like you made some heat muffs out > of old colem*n stove propane cans. Is that what those are? Could you > share? If I remember right those things are pretty darn light. We used > to set the almost empty cans next to a fire and step back 100 paces and > shoot them with a rifle. Hey when you don't have any fireworks you do > what you can on the 4th of JULY in the Alaskan bush! :o) > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Ailerons almost done! > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Aliso Viejo CA > Give Blood, Play Hockey! > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com Hi Gang and Mike, Thanks for the plug! The heat muffs are formed by myself from(can't remember 2024T3 or 6061T6, but it is the weldable aluminum .050) rolled to allow about 1" around the exhaust pipe. Riveted 5 NAS 444 anchor nuts on the inside to be able to close the two halves. No they are not propane cans. Then welded screen door springs around the exhaust pipe to encourage good heat transfer. It worked great plenty of cabin heat and good carb heat. Hose clamps were used at each end to keep it positioned. In your time in the North wonder if you have ever seen a hill move, you do a double take and look again and realize that the hill is a herd of Arctic hare all moving together, talk about vertigo. Nice job on your KR, like your attitude in your approach to building!!! --- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Source of supply From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:30:42 PDT X-Message-Number: 10 Yo, netters I did think about ordering some stuff through McMaster-Carr, but their terms stated that they were commercial only, and had a minimum order that was way more than what I needed to pay for one or two items. I get some things through W.W. Grainger if you have that resource available; it's grainger.com and they also have a big, fat catalog. Also- in our engineering firm we very often need to check structures for level, so guess what? We have two SmartLevels in the office! So I have had those available whenever I need them. They are very good gadgets to have around the shop when building. Last comment re: fuel gauges... sorry, Kerry- the FARs list a requirement for a "fuel quantity indicator for each fuel tank"; that's listed right there along with altimeter, airspeed indicator, and the other required things for basic VFR flight. No bombsights listed, though ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: horizontal stab From: Warron Gray Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:22:34 -0400 X-Message-Number: 11 I've been wondering why the desire to change the stabilizer design. If there is some stability problem, than your going about it the wrong way. My kr buddies had the problem of not being able to let go of the stick to read a sectional or maintain an even alt. at diferant speeds.They were sick and tired of that problem until they solved it for under $10.00 bucks with an easy fix and no, no design changes. Now their kr's handle like "fast mooneys". no cutting, welding or anything any of us fumble fingered flyers couldn't do. One of the kr's is probably the shortest length and wingspan around and he swears by it. But if someone thinks they can experiment on an experimental than go ahead and change the design.Of course it has only been flying for umpteen years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: access panels & trim tab From: Warron Gray Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:27:04 -0400 X-Message-Number: 12 As far as access panels spruce sells alum. covers that do the job nicely they pop into place. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: horizontal stab From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:56:00 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 Warron Gray wrote: > If there is some stability problem, than your going about it the wrong > way. My kr buddies had the problem of not being able to let go of the > stick to read a sectional or maintain an even alt. at diferant > speeds.They were sick and tired of that problem until they solved it for > under $10.00 bucks with an easy fix and no, no design changes. So, are you gonna tell us how, or are we gonna have to play 20 questions?????? If it's different from stock, it's a design change...even if it's a CG shift forward of what the plans call for... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: horizontal stab From: "Dean Collette" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:30:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 From: Warron Gray >. . . They were sick and tired of that problem until they solved it for > under $10.00 bucks with an easy fix and no, no design changes. Now > their kr's handle like "fast mooneys". no cutting, welding or anything > any of us fumble fingered flyers couldn't do. . . . When you do tell us what the fix is - please include in the stability analysis worksheets. Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin mailto:drdean@execpc.com Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: More on Fuel Gauges From: Kerry Miller Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:37:15 -0500 X-Message-Number: 15 I got a note today from a guy with a Lake Amphibian, he said they come from the factory set up like I described for my wing tanks and neither of the aux tanks has a gauge, only the main tank. Mike (or anybody else), did the inspector mention a reference in the FARs which required the gauges? I've heard before that you need a gauge for all tanks, but I keep getting conflicting stories. I could save some weight and time by leaving them off, but sure would hate to get a squawk from the inspector about it. Kerry Miller Full owner of 1/2 of a KR-2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: horizontal stab From: CruzJ12@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:52:29 EDT X-Message-Number: 16 What was the $10.00 fix? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: horizontal stab From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:55:41 -0700 X-Message-Number: 17 CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > > What was the $10.00 fix? > I bet you will have to pay him $50 to find out! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: horizontal stab From: cartera Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:07:02 -0600 X-Message-Number: 18 Warron Gray wrote: > > I've been wondering why the desire to change the stabilizer design. > If there is some stability problem, than your going about it the wrong > way. My kr buddies had the problem of not being able to let go of the > stick to read a sectional or maintain an even alt. at diferant > speeds.They were sick and tired of that problem until they solved it for > under $10.00 bucks with an easy fix and no, no design changes. Now > their kr's handle like "fast mooneys". no cutting, welding or anything > any of us fumble fingered flyers couldn't do. One of the kr's is > probably the shortest length and wingspan around and he swears by it. > But if someone thinks they can experiment on an experimental than go > ahead and change the design.Of course it has only been flying for > umpteen years. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com I am still holding my breath - give us the answer??????? -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Smart Level From: Michael Taglieri Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:14:18 EDT X-Message-Number: 19 I've never understood the enthusiasm for these things. A water level gives you absolute accuracy, limited only by the pull of gravity and the surface tension of the fluid used, in a rather inconvenient form. From what I've seen in catalogs, a "smart level" is a standard bubble level -- with all the inherent inaccuracies -- connected to a laser beam that only multiplies those inaccuracies. I'm sure they're fast to use, but for anyone doing careful work (which I hope would be most of the people on this list) why would you want one? On Sat, 15 May 1999 11:53:08 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: >Ed wrote: > >>Looking for a good (and of course the cheapest) source for a Smart >Level or >equivalent. >Web sites I've visited so far don't even list them. > >Ed, > >Get the Smarttool from The Tool Crib of the North at (oddly enough) >http://www.toolcribofthenorth.com/oc-set.html . I paid $119 for mine, >complete with the four foot "extension", and I doubt you'll find it >cheaper. >This thing is absolutely amazing! It beats the crap out of a water >level as >far as speed and ease of use goes. A water level is better only over >very >long distances like nose to tail or wingtip to wingtip. They read to >within >one tenth of a degree, which is "close enough for KR work". I'll be >bringing it to the Gathering so we can find out once and for all how >far the >nose is pointed down during a high speed pass. > >I won't swear to this, but it's my understanding that a Smart Level >doesn't >read in tenths of a degree, but I could very well be wrong about that. > >I'll post a picture of this soon, as it is included in an update to >Spar >Construction that I'm working on for the FAQ... > > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ed Janssen >To: KR-net users group >Sent: Saturday, May 15, 1999 7:16 AM >Subject: [kr-net] Smart Level > > >KRnet toolheads: > >Looking for a good (and of course the cheapest) source for a Smart >Level or >equivalent. Web sites I've visited so far don't even list them. > >Thanks! > >Ed Janssen > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: miket_nyc@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More on Fuel Gauges From: boggyd@webtv.net (D Bogdan) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:44:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 20 Kerry Miller wrote about conflicting stories on fuel gauges: see FAR 91.205 (b)(9) which requires a gauge... also note 23.1337 (b)(5) which exempts auxiliary tanks with certain limitations... Just to add fuel to the fire, part 91.205 (since these are not ultralights KR's are flown subject to part 91) pertains to standard category US airworthiness certificates. FAR 21.175 gives only two classifications of airworthiness certificates namely, expeimental airworhiness certificates are not standard they are special. Regards, DJ Milwaukee Success comes in cans.... not in can'ts, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New Pages/Database From: "Blandford, Carlton C" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:52:32 +0200 X-Message-Number: 21 Hi Larry, My drive weighs in at about 8kg complete or 17 pound (all the gearing including the drive sharts weigh 4,5kg). Most of the parts I salvaged from a auto box from a 2.8 Nissan Skyline (I don't know if you have these in the US). The gearing can handle about 800HP but the final strength of the box will depend on the castings and the way the gears are installed on the drive shafts. I built the complete box including the patters for the casing. The drive shafts and other machining I had done at a local engineering shop according to my drawings. The drive is quit easy to make but took me 1,5 years to develope and after edition 9 is now complete. The drive runs completely silent and because it's so small nobody believes it has a reduction installed. Does Ross Planetary not have drawings of their drive as I would also be interested in seeing how they put this together? regards Carlton -----Original Message----- From: EveninBrz@aol.com [mailto:EveninBrz@aol.com] Sent: 14 May 1999 02:05 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: New Pages/Database In a message dated 5/13/1999 11:42:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CBlandford@mail.sbic.co.za writes: << Hi Larry, Thks for the response, at this time I still have to scan the drawings into electronic format. I'm also working on a 3-D drawing. I should have this done shortly and I'll post these to you. Are you interested in building your own drive? Mine has aprox 20 hours on it now and all is still well. regards Carlton >> Good Morning ! At least it is morning right now for me. I've been thinking about it for a while, but haven't found anything that I thought was rugged enough and at the same time light enough to do the job. The weight penalty so far is too high to pay for the horsepower gained. Thanks, Larry Shull --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: CBlandford@mail.sbic.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com