From: 	KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com]
Sent: 	Friday, June 25, 1999 12:19 AM
To: 	kr-net digest recipients
Subject: 	kr-net digest: June 24, 1999

KR-net users group Digest for Thursday, June 24, 1999.

1. Stupid Question of the Day
2.  Stupid question of the day.
3. Re:  Stupid question of the day.
4. Re: Stupid question of the day.
5. Re: Stupid question of the day.
6. Re:  Stupid question of the day.
7.  Re:  Re: Stupid question of the day.
8. Stupid Question of the day
9. Re: More Sport Aviation Stuff
10. Sport Aviation magazine and the KR
11. Wynne's Corvair Conversion Manual search
12. Re: Stupid Question of the day
13. Re: Stupid Question of the day
14. FAA Personal Minimums Checklist Program
15. Re:  Stupid question of the day.
16. Re:  Stupid question of the day.
17. Q Parabeam three dimentional glass fabric

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Stupid Question of the Day
From: Tobin Dunham <tobin_patrick@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:08:39 PDT
X-Message-Number: 1

Ok I have a couple of questions.  On drawing 1, the wing spars are shown as 
being sandwiched between two vertical members (column rows D&E, G&H).  If 
you follow the construction manual and build the fuselage with the plywood 
skin on it before installing the spars, it looks like you'll have a problem 
getting the spars in.  Do you have to glue the skin on, then trim a hole in 
it for the spar?  Also, how do you get the spar in place between the 
vertical members and still get a good glue joint?

Ok, last stupid question for now: Do you really have to staple the plywood 
to the fuselage sides while the glue cures?  Can't you just clamp it with a 
2x4 or something else to spread the load evenly?  I foresee damage occurring 
while trying to pull all those stupid staples out.  What have you guys done 
other than staple?

Toby Dunham
Houston, TX


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:  Stupid question of the day.
From: FLYKR2S@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:14:06 EDT
X-Message-Number: 2

Hi Tobin,
Yes you need to glue the skins to the fuselage frame prior to installing the 
center spars. Trim the plywood flush with the vertical members and you should 
have no trouble inserting the spars. As far as the glue joint, if you don't 
have a tight fit, use shims glued on both sides. Also, you should glue 5/8 x 
5/8 spruce strips in the joint corners on the outside of the fuselage. This 
makes a firm joint between the fuselage and spar. Then when you install the 
load transfer blocks on the top of the spars and between the vertical 
members, you will have a secure spar to fuselage joint. If you wish, you can 
take this a step further by installing 5/8 x 5/8 spruce strips between spars 
and fuselage floor lengthwise across interior of fuselage.

As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your discretion. I 
used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight to press my skins to 
the fuselage frames as the glue cured. This gave me very good results.  
However, this was done on a flat table prior to assembling the fuselage sides 
together.

Remember, no question is a dumb question.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Waukesha, WI
flykr2s@aol.com 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Stupid question of the day.
From: Horn2004@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:25:43 EDT
X-Message-Number: 3


In a message dated 6/24/99 1:31:28 PM, FLYKR2S@AOL.com writes:

<<As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your discretion. I 
used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight to press my skins to 
the fuselage frames as the glue cured. >>

And instead of trying to cut the plywood skins to fit the framing perfectly, 
let the plywood skin hang over the framing. When the epoxy has cured, use a 
straight cut router bit with a flush cut pilot bearing on the bottom of the 
bit. This will give you a very sweet flush finished edge.

Steve Horn
horn2004@aol.com
Dallas, TX

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Stupid question of the day.
From: Tobin Dunham <tobin_patrick@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:46:52 PDT
X-Message-Number: 4

Mark Jones wrote:

>As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your >discretion. I 
>used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight >to press my skins to 
>the fuselage frames as the glue cured. This gave >me very good results. 
>However, this was done on a flat table prior to >assembling the fuselage 
>sides together.

Good idea.  But the next question would be: once you glue the skin to the 
fuselage side frames, one of the next steps is to bend the sides to put 
together the "boat".  Does the actual bending of the fuselage sides cause 
cracking or splitting of the wood or glued joints?  The spruce framing and 
plywood skins are not bending at the same rate, and I would think this would 
lead to high stresses on the glued surfaces between skin and framing.  At 
the very least, you'll have a pre-stressed fuselage....

Toby Dunham
Houston, TX


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Stupid question of the day.
From: "John Weikel" <jandd@maverickbbs.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:59:53 -0500
X-Message-Number: 5

Toby,
I bent mine with the plywood attached and had no problems at all.  Nothing
broke or cracked.
John W
Kerrville, Tx
-----Original Message-----
From: Tobin Dunham <tobin_patrick@hotmail.com>
To: KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:46 PM
Subject: [kr-net] Re: Stupid question of the day.


>Mark Jones wrote:
>
>>As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your >discretion. I
>>used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight >to press my skins
to
>>the fuselage frames as the glue cured. This gave >me very good results.
>>However, this was done on a flat table prior to >assembling the fuselage
>>sides together.
>
>Good idea.  But the next question would be: once you glue the skin to the
>fuselage side frames, one of the next steps is to bend the sides to put
>together the "boat".  Does the actual bending of the fuselage sides cause
>cracking or splitting of the wood or glued joints?  The spruce framing and
>plywood skins are not bending at the same rate, and I would think this
would
>lead to high stresses on the glued surfaces between skin and framing.  At
>the very least, you'll have a pre-stressed fuselage....
>
>Toby Dunham
>Houston, TX
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
>---
>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Stupid question of the day.
From: "John Weikel" <jandd@maverickbbs.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:08:15 -0500
X-Message-Number: 6

Man I hate those darned staples but used them anyway.  There is no easy way
to pull the suckers either.  I used a 1/4 wood chisel and a pair of
plyers.... lift and pull, lift and pull.. never ending.  I have just
completed a RW-6 RagWing Parasol UL (wood & fabric) and used 4000 staples on
that little sucker.  My hands still hurt and the blisters have almost
healed.  Take care when you put the spars in place.  Level and measure til
both sides are identical then mark everything and put the glue on..... don't
even allow the cat near it til the glue has set.
John W
-----Original Message-----
From: FLYKR2S@aol.com <FLYKR2S@aol.com>
To: KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 1:14 PM
Subject: [kr-net] Stupid question of the day.


>Hi Tobin,
>Yes you need to glue the skins to the fuselage frame prior to installing
the
>center spars. Trim the plywood flush with the vertical members and you
should
>have no trouble inserting the spars. As far as the glue joint, if you don't
>have a tight fit, use shims glued on both sides. Also, you should glue 5/8
x
>5/8 spruce strips in the joint corners on the outside of the fuselage. This
>makes a firm joint between the fuselage and spar. Then when you install the
>load transfer blocks on the top of the spars and between the vertical
>members, you will have a secure spar to fuselage joint. If you wish, you
can
>take this a step further by installing 5/8 x 5/8 spruce strips between
spars
>and fuselage floor lengthwise across interior of fuselage.
>
>As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your discretion. I
>used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight to press my skins to
>the fuselage frames as the glue cured. This gave me very good results.
>However, this was done on a flat table prior to assembling the fuselage
sides
>together.
>
>Remember, no question is a dumb question.
>
>Mark Jones (N886MJ)
>Waukesha, WI
>flykr2s@aol.com
>
>---
>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:  Re:  Re: Stupid question of the day.
From: FLYKR2S@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:18:28 EDT
X-Message-Number: 7

In a message dated Thu, 24 Jun 1999  5:15:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FLY 
KR2S writes:

> The bending process will indeed cause a certain amount of stress. The 
proper way to do the bending is very slowy over a period of several days. 
Mine was done in five days and I have no stress cracks since the fuselage was 
assembled a year ago. I have also heard some builders have completely 
assembled the fuselage frame and then applied the ply. This procedure would 
require the staples to hold the ply to the spruce. Also, I have heard of 
builders cutting apart old boats and having the sides spring back 
considerably. This tells you there is a certain amount of stress but there 
are hunderds flying that were built to plans.
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Waukesha, WI
> flykr2s@aol.com 



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Stupid Question of the day
From: RFG842@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:38:30 EDT
X-Message-Number: 8

I always cut my plywood oversize and left a 1/4 inch or more edge and by 
fuselage sides and wing spars.  I used a carbite formica straight cutter in 
my router to trim the edges.  Wips right through the epoxy and plywood and 
leaves a perfect edge.

I also did the staple routine and useing string, wire, etc under the staple 
to help pull it out didn't work.  I used a tack puller and hours of work but 
I'm sure of the glue joints.

A few days ago someone on the net suggested stapling through 1" nylon 
packaging tape used to bundle lumber.  Said it worked fine and pulled at 
least one side of the staple so you could finish with a pair of pilers.  
Worth a Try/

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: More Sport Aviation Stuff
From: "Noel  Abel" <nabel@dynamite.com.au>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:02:49 +1000
X-Message-Number: 9

Hi Don,
That was very decent of you to send extracts from Sport Aviation re KRs and
will save me a lot of time wading through my copies (since 1973). I started
a VP1 years ago but lost interest because it was only a single seater. I
think the KRs will be ideal for my purpose.
Thanks again,
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Reid <donreid@erols.com>
To: KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 11:21 AM
Subject: [kr-net] More Sport Aviation Stuff


>I have just loaded up the latest (and probably last) set of KR articles
>from Sport Aviation.  Go to http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_SA.htm
>The newest four are at the bottom.  I have been searching though the
>issues and I have included some miscellaneous photos and short write-ups
>that I had missed the first time.  There may be more that I will
>continue to find and load up later.
>
>Enjoy!
>--
>Don Reid
>Bumpass, Va.   mailto:donreid@erols.com
>        KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm
>  Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html
>
>---
>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: nabel@dynamite.com.au
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Sport Aviation magazine and the KR
From: Donald Reid <donreid@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:32:09 -0400
X-Message-Number: 10

Over the past several months, I have enjoyed searching through my copies
of Sport Aviation and loading them onto my web page.  I especially
appreciate the number of private messages that I have received thanking
me for the effort and the information.  It was my pleasure.  
-- 
Don Reid
Bumpass, Va.   mailto:donreid@erols.com
        KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm
  Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Wynne's Corvair Conversion Manual search
From: "Mark Langford" <langford@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:34:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11

CorvairFans,

I sent William Wynne a bank draft for $60  over 2 months ago to cover his
Corvair conversion manual and shipping.  He's yet to even cash it.  All
indications are that he has evaporated into thin air.  The phone listed on
his web site has been disconnected, and he doesn't answer at his shop.  Does
anybody have a copy they would let me borrow for about 2 days to "read".
After all, I've sent him the money already.  I need to do a little research
on this thing.  Robert Sauer sent me a lot of good info on which engine to
choose, but I'd like to scan the whole thing if I could.  I'll gladly pay
shipping both ways, as fast as you think is necessary.  Email me at the
address below.

Thanks a lot,

Mark Langford,  Huntsville,  Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Stupid Question of the day
From: Kr2dream@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:21:55 EDT
X-Message-Number: 12

I had excellent luck by leaving the 1/4" overlap for trimming and stapling 
over nylon chord (small diameter).  The nylon was strong enough not to break 
when removing the staples and made removal a snap.  None of the glue joints 
came loose when curving the sides to contour the boat.  I was very pleased 
with the result.

Bob Lasecki
Chicago & still building!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Stupid Question of the day
From: "w.g. kirkland" <kirkland@vianet.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:42:22 -0400
X-Message-Number: 13

I found that nylon cord or string under the staples made pulling them
easier. The cord is strong enough not to break when pulling them. That gets
one side up then use a pair of slip joint pliers with a rounded head to
lever the other leg out.
W.G. KIRKLAND
kirkland@vianet.on.ca

----------
> From: RFG842@aol.com
> To: KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
> Subject: [kr-net] Stupid Question of the day
> Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 5:38 PM
> 
> I always cut my plywood oversize and left a 1/4 inch or more edge and by 
> fuselage sides and wing spars.  I used a carbite formica straight cutter
in 
> my router to trim the edges.  Wips right through the epoxy and plywood
and 
> leaves a perfect edge.
> 
> I also did the staple routine and useing string, wire, etc under the
staple 
> to help pull it out didn't work.  I used a tack puller and hours of work
but 
> I'm sure of the glue joints.
> 
> A few days ago someone on the net suggested stapling through 1" nylon 
> packaging tape used to bundle lumber.  Said it worked fine and pulled at 
> least one side of the staple so you could finish with a pair of pilers.  
> Worth a Try/
> 
> Bob
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: FAA Personal Minimums Checklist Program
From: EagleGator@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:43:28 EDT
X-Message-Number: 14

I just got a copy of the "Making Your Own Rules: Creating a Personnal 
Minimums Checklist" CD from the FAA. It's a program that takes you through a 
training session that results in generating a checklist of your personal 
minimums for currency, weather, aircraft parameters, and a few other things. 
You input your experience parameters, and it outputs suggested limits that 
you can modify if you want. 

I've got a copy of the FAA form this program is based on on my web site, if 
you want to take a look at it. It's at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator.

I'd like to send this disk to someone who has a read/write CD ROM to be 
duplicated if anyone is interested in getting a copy. Any takers?

Cheers,
Rick Junkin
EagleGator@aol.com
St. Charles MO
KR-2S N415RJ 37% complete and progressing... more or less

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Stupid question of the day.
From: g hamilton <ghami@gtwn.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:32:32 -0700
X-Message-Number: 15


------ =_NextPart_000_01BEBE8E.30A36280
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On the fuselage skins, I used only a few staples to hold plywood in =
place until I sealed it up in a vacuum bag. (Made from plastic sheeting =
or drop cloth from the hardware store, sealed with a tube of roofing =
caulk. )  Used an old freezer compressor to evacuate the air.  Worked =
great on the sides but impossible on the bottom!  Trimmed up with a =
router.

Gary H.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Horn2004@aol.com [SMTP:Horn2004@aol.com]
Sent:	Thursday, June 24, 1999 12:26 PM
To:	KR-net users group
Subject:	[kr-net] Re:  Stupid question of the day.


In a message dated 6/24/99 1:31:28 PM, FLYKR2S@AOL.com writes:

<<As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your =
discretion. I=20
used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight to press my skins =
to=20
the fuselage frames as the glue cured. >>

And instead of trying to cut the plywood skins to fit the framing =
perfectly,=20
let the plywood skin hang over the framing. When the epoxy has cured, =
use a=20
straight cut router bit with a flush cut pilot bearing on the bottom of =
the=20
bit. This will give you a very sweet flush finished edge.

Steve Horn
horn2004@aol.com
Dallas, TX

---
You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ghami@gtwn.net
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com

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Subject: Re:  Stupid question of the day.
From: "Rick Hubka" <rick@hubka.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:05:14 -0600
X-Message-Number: 16

Strapping for stappling

I went to a Home Depot Shipping dock where they load lumber onto cars &
trucks.  They will have a large reel of strapping they use.  It has the name
"HOME DEPOT CARISTRAP" on it.  Its about 3/4" wide and is made up of about
20 strands of a fiberglass type material which can easily be pealed to 5/8".
I asked the guy if I could have about 150' of it, telling him about the KR.
He said "sure take all you want".

The strapping works excellent.  It easily pops at least one side of every
staple and softens the blow from my electric stapler.


Pre-bending the  fusalage a bit

After epoxy/stapling I inserted a 2"X4' flat/verticle under the centre of
the 2 spar slots and put weights about 2 feet either side to create a bend
as the epoxy was drying.  After the epoxy dryed the fusalage cabin area
retained about a 1" bend.  I figure it can't hurt to slightly pre-bend a
bit.




----- Original Message -----
From: <FLYKR2S@aol.com>
To: KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 12:14 PM
Subject: [kr-net] Stupid question of the day.


> Hi Tobin,
> Yes you need to glue the skins to the fuselage frame prior to installing
the
> center spars. Trim the plywood flush with the vertical members and you
should
> have no trouble inserting the spars. As far as the glue joint, if you
don't
> have a tight fit, use shims glued on both sides. Also, you should glue 5/8
x
> 5/8 spruce strips in the joint corners on the outside of the fuselage.
This
> makes a firm joint between the fuselage and spar. Then when you install
the
> load transfer blocks on the top of the spars and between the vertical
> members, you will have a secure spar to fuselage joint. If you wish, you
can
> take this a step further by installing 5/8 x 5/8 spruce strips between
spars
> and fuselage floor lengthwise across interior of fuselage.
>
> As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your discretion. I
> used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight to press my skins to
> the fuselage frames as the glue cured. This gave me very good results.
> However, this was done on a flat table prior to assembling the fuselage
sides
> together.
>
> Remember, no question is a dumb question.
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Waukesha, WI
> flykr2s@aol.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rick@hubka.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Q Parabeam three dimentional glass fabric
From: "Rick Hubka" <rick@hubka.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:26:45 -0600
X-Message-Number: 17

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Q:  What is Parabeam three dimentional glass fabric.

Any one heard of or use this fiberglass?  Supposedly it'd new!


Rick Hubka
Email: rick@hubka.com
Web Site: www.hubka.com
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Q:&nbsp; What is Parabeam three dimentional glass=20
fabric.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Any one heard of or use this fiberglass?&nbsp; =
Supposedly it'd=20
new!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rick Hubka<BR>Email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:rick@hubka.com">rick@hubka.com</A><BR>Web Site: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.hubka.com">www.hubka.com</A><BR>Calgary, Alberta,=20
Canada</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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