From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 12:13 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: June 26, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Saturday, June 26, 1999. 1. Re: Sport Aviation magazine and the KR 2. Corvair 3. Personal Minimums 4. 3d modeling 5. Re: 3d modeling 6. Web Page for Personal Minimums Checklist 7. Re: 3d modeling 8. Re: 3d modeling 9. Re: Web Page for Personal Minimums Checklist 10. Re: Stupid Question of the day 11. Re: Stupid question of the day. 12. Re: Stupid question of the day. 13. Virginia EAA Flyin 14. Re: Stupid question of the day. 15. Re: FAA Personal Minimums Checklist Program 16. Re: Corvair 17. Re: 3d modeling 18. Re: Stupid question of the day. 19. Re: kr-net digest: June 22, 1999 20. Re: KR 2 from Italy...VW help needed 21. Non vertical stern post 22. Re: Non vertical stern post 23. T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood 24. Re: Belly board 25. Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Sport Aviation magazine and the KR From: "John Weikel" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:13:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 Man, you went to a lot of work putting this all together and I for one really appreciate it. I printed off several last nite and went to sleep with one of them in my hand. John W -----Original Message----- From: Donald Reid To: KR-net users group Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 8:32 PM Subject: [kr-net] Sport Aviation magazine and the KR >Over the past several months, I have enjoyed searching through my copies >of Sport Aviation and loading them onto my web page. I especially >appreciate the number of private messages that I have received thanking >me for the effort and the information. It was my pleasure. >-- >Don Reid >Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com > KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Corvair From: Oscar Zuniga Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:48:07 PDT X-Message-Number: 2 Mark Langford wrote: >All indications are that he has evaporated into thin air. Painfully so, it appears. I contacted Lon Wall at Corvair Underground, thinking that I had found a stash of conversion manuals since he offers them in his catalog. No joy! He sold the last of his stock, tried to order some more from Wynne, and hit the same wall we all have. He tried calling, faxing, etc.- but it looks like we need to send somebody into the jungle to find Dr. Livingstone. Another bit of bad news, Lon's brother doesn't have a "Corvairs only" shop anymore. The best he could do for me is tell me about another shop up in Washington which specializes in 'Vairs... which I'll be contacting. He also told me that any of the engines, 110 or 140, are so stout that setting them up for 90 HP at "our" RPMs is no sweat at all. Wynne points out that the turbo engines are redlined at 5500 RPM in the auto applications, so even running a normally-aspirated 'Vair at 3500 or so is less than 75% and not straining the engine one bit. I'm with Mark- anything you guys in Florida can find out about William Wynne, let us know. The Corvair looks like a good lead to follow. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Personal Minimums From: Oscar Zuniga Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:05:39 PDT X-Message-Number: 3 EagleGator wrote: >I'd like to send this disk to someone who has a read/write >CD ROM to be duplicated if anyone is interested in getting a >copy. Any takers? I can do it. Have burner, will travel. Have blanks and mailers too. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 3d modeling From: Tobin Dunham Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:34:14 PDT X-Message-Number: 4 Hey guys, I just wanted to pass along an idea. Although I am the primary builder (pronounced "fifty-one percent"), my brother will be helping me with my KR-2. He happens to be a whiz on AutoCad, and he is constructing a 3d model of the plane on the computer. I want to look at the model first and make changes on the computer before screwing up a real plane. :) Anyway, I have a bitmap image that shows the progress so far on the 3d model. I tried to send it to the kr-net but there's a limit of 40kb per message. If you would like to view it, email me privately at tobin_patrick@hotmail.com and I can send the image to you. It's just under 300kb zipped and almost 800kb unzipped. It's preliminary and incomplete, and he's been working on it for only a couple of days now in his spare time. Look at it and let me know what you think so far. I'm thinking that this could be a really valuable tool for building KRs, especially for design changes. I want to know if this something that you guys think would be worth paying for. Do you think Rand Robinson would consider paying to have a 3d model available?? Toby Dunham Houston, TX _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3d modeling From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:30:18 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 >Do you think Rand Robinson would consider paying to have >a 3d model available?? I'm not sure what they'd do with it, since there's no draftsman or engineer on staff, much less a computer to run it on. They'd probably appreciate a color print of it to hang on the wall though. Generally, folks would probably be more interested in a KR2S model than a KR2... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Web Page for Personal Minimums Checklist From: EagleGator@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:30:30 EDT X-Message-Number: 6 Hi Gang, Here's the FAA web page where I originally saw the information about this program a couple of months ago: http://www.faa.gov/avr/news/pmcp/pavepmcp.htm#order It's worth your time to take a look. I've got a copy of the CD and would be happy to float it around, like the panel planner and other stuff we have circulating, and have received a couple of offers from folks to duplicate the CD for anyone who would pay for a CD and postage ($10 - $15?). You can try ordering your own copy from the FAA from the web page, they were free to the first 2000 people who asked for them. There's no telling if they have any left. Please email me directly if you're interested in a copy or circulating the program - it's in the public domain. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St.Charles MO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3d modeling From: cartera Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:13:11 -0600 X-Message-Number: 7 Hi Toby, Yes, would like a copy of the 3D takeoff. Am into AutoCad myself. -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3d modeling From: cartera Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:02:51 -0600 X-Message-Number: 8 cartera wrote: > > Hi Toby, > Yes, would like a copy of the 3D takeoff. Am into AutoCad myself. > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com Sori this should have gone direct :0 -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Web Page for Personal Minimums Checklist From: "The Stones" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:15:57 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 -----Original Message----- From: EagleGator@aol.com snip >I've got a copy of the CD and would be happy to float it around, like the >panel planner and other stuff we have circulating, snip I've e-mailed Rick to get on the circulation list for the personal minimums cd. Would someone be kind enough to point me in the right direction for the panel planner and "other stuff". Thankyou Tim Stone stonet@gnv.fdt.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stupid Question of the day From: GREG S MARTIN Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:48:26 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:38:30 EDT RFG842@aol.com writes: >I always cut my plywood oversize and left a 1/4 inch or more edge and >by >fuselage sides and wing spars. I used a carbite formica straight >cutter in >my router to trim the edges. Wips right through the epoxy and plywood >and >leaves a perfect edge. > >I also did the staple routine and useing string, wire, etc under the >staple >to help pull it out didn't work. I used a tack puller and hours of >work but >I'm sure of the glue joints. > >A few days ago someone on the net suggested stapling through 1" nylon > >packaging tape used to bundle lumber. Said it worked fine and pulled >at >least one side of the staple so you could finish with a pair of >pilers. >Worth a Try/ > >Bob Don't foreget, Mooney used the tape idea. They were rebuilding their wings a few years later. A fellow by the name of E. W. (Speed) Gardenhire (A & P license # 59) worked for me for a couple of years and one of his friends working for Mooney told him of the story. So from that point they proceed with the tack strips. He's/they are all correct. You'll spend more time removing the staples than putting them in. But It's the best way. Happy building and/or flying Greg Martin Bakersfield, CA > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: idrawtobuild@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stupid question of the day. From: GREG S MARTIN Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:39:26 -0700 X-Message-Number: 11 On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:46:52 PDT Tobin Dunham writes: >Mark Jones wrote: > >>As to using the staples on the fuselage skins, this is your >>discretion. I >>used many one gallon jugs filled with water as weight >to press my >skins to >>the fuselage frames as the glue cured. This gave >me very good >results. >>However, this was done on a flat table prior to >assembling the >fuselage >>sides together. > >Good idea. But the next question would be: once you glue the skin to >the >fuselage side frames, one of the next steps is to bend the sides to >put >together the "boat". Does the actual bending of the fuselage sides >cause >cracking or splitting of the wood or glued joints? The spruce framing >and >plywood skins are not bending at the same rate, and I would think this >would >lead to high stresses on the glued surfaces between skin and framing. >At >the very least, you'll have a pre-stressed fuselage.... > >Toby Dunham >Houston, TX > Bending the stringers into position prior to putting the side skins on sounds like a good idea. I just have a feeling that stapling will pop some of the glue joints in the process. But if the glue joints (skin to stringers etc.) are not good, positive contacts. You wouldn't know it as you would when bending the sides into position. Besides, the stress will not effect good work. I used the so called tack strips, plywood strips that I stapled through and it gave a real positive connection. The staples can be about 1" to 1 1/2" apart and with the tack strip, the pressure is a little more even. With water jugs, your only getting about 8 lbs. per jug using 1 gallon jugs and the spacing will not be as evenly spread out as with stapling in my opinion. The tack strip method is the way Bellenca did their wing and it was considered the best general aviation wing going for the longest time. Besides, When you bend the sides into position, you get a definite test joint. If you have poor joint contact, you'll know it right then and there. And if the glue joints don't hold. Well is guess you know the answer to that. Happy building and/or flying Greg Martin Bakersfield, CA > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: idrawtobuild@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stupid question of the day. From: JEHayward@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:13:29 EDT X-Message-Number: 12 In a message dated 6/25/99 6:04:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, idrawtobuild@juno.com writes: << Bending the stringers into position prior to putting the side skins on sounds like a good idea. I just have a feeling that stapling will pop some of the glue joints in the process. >> This is the way I did mine and had no popped joints or anything but good results with the method. We did both sides in an afternoon and the bottom the following weekend. Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Virginia EAA Flyin From: Donald Reid Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:09:59 -0400 X-Message-Number: 13 The 3rd annual Virginia EAA will be tomorrow and Sunday at the Petersburg airport. http://www.vaeaa.org I certainly hope to see some KR's there. If any of you KRNet people, please introduce yourself. I will be the tall guy wearing a volunteer hat. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stupid question of the day. From: "John Weikel" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:52:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 I glued the skin (I used staples) before bending the sides into place with no problems. If there is concern about popping a glue joint, the joint is probably in need of attention anyway. Better to find out about it now then to have a weak joint that you aren't aware of. Heres hoping that all your glue joints are good and the sides bend to perfection..... John W -----Original Message----- From: JEHayward@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 11:13 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Stupid question of the day. >In a message dated 6/25/99 6:04:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, >idrawtobuild@juno.com writes: > ><< Bending the stringers into position prior to putting the side skins on > sounds like a good idea. I just have a feeling that stapling will pop > some of the glue joints in the process. >> > > This is the way I did mine and had no popped joints or anything but > good results with the method. We did both sides in an afternoon and > the bottom the following weekend. > > Jim Hayward > Rapid City, SD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: FAA Personal Minimums Checklist Program From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 13:52:00 EDT X-Message-Number: 15 In a message dated 6/24/1999 7:46:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, EagleGator@aol.com writes: << I'd like to send this disk to someone who has a read/write CD ROM to be duplicated if anyone is interested in getting a copy. Any takers? >> I've got several of them. How do you want it done, as a read only CD as a Rewritable Cd, so it can be changed? And how many copies do you need? Send it too: Larry Shull 6633 Glade Av Canoga Park, Ca. 91303 I can run off as many copies as you want. I hope that you do not want the lable on it like a commercial CD has because I do not have a CD printer and have found that the paper stick on labels cause problems with vibration due to being out of balance. The slower CD drives have no problem with it but the newer ones that run at 20x or so can't handle an out of balance CD. Really hammers the bearings out of them. Larry Shull EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Corvair From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:01:46 EDT X-Message-Number: 16 In a message dated 6/25/1999 4:49:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: << Wynne points out that the turbo engines are redlined at 5500 RPM in the auto applications, so even running a normally-aspirated 'Vair at 3500 or so is less than 75% and not straining the engine one bit. >> Chevrolet does that with engines. Look at the small block V8. It started out at 265 CI and ended up being 400 CI. They desidn them very strong and then make them bigger as the years go by. I have built a 180 CI Corvair engine and it was a great motor. They normally run hotter than the VW but once you get used to that no problem. It is by far the finest air cooled toy motor ever designed. Larry Shull EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 3d modeling From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:05:43 EDT X-Message-Number: 17 In a message dated 6/25/1999 6:50:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tobin_patrick@hotmail.com writes: << Anyway, I have a bitmap image that shows the progress so far on the 3d model. I tried to send it to the kr-net but there's a limit of 40kb per message. If you would like to view it, email me privately at tobin_patrick@hotmail.com and I can send the image to you. It's just under 300kb zipped and almost 800kb unzipped. It's preliminary and incomplete, and he's been working on it for only a couple of days now in his spare time. Look at it and let me know what you think so far. I'm thinking that this could be a really valuable tool for building KRs, especially for design changes. I want to know if this something that you guys think would be worth paying for. Do you think Rand Robinson would consider paying to have a 3d model available?? >> I for one would love to have a copy of it. If you can send it in BMP or as a DWG file zipped or unzipped. Larry Shull EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stupid question of the day. From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:06:52 -0700 X-Message-Number: 18 JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/25/99 6:04:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > idrawtobuild@juno.com writes: > > << Bending the stringers into position prior to putting the side skins on > sounds like a good idea. I just have a feeling that stapling will pop > some of the glue joints in the process. >> > > << good results with the method. >>> I also installed the skin after framing up the fuselage. Either way works, and either way is a lot of work! The small amount of stress in the skins is minor and of no significance. I think if I were to do it again I would skin the sides first and I would do it using weight instead of staples. If you have half way decent pressure when using t-88 your joints will be fine. If you can avoid staples, do it because removing them and filling all those little dents sucks! Remember staples and nails were used by guys who had to have A LOT of pressure because of the types of glue availble 100 years ago. My advise, use a few of them as you can. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr-net digest: June 22, 1999 From: KCDays@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:29:45 EDT X-Message-Number: 19 Please take me off the KR net. Thanks, Ken Day ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR 2 from Italy...VW help needed From: "Linda Bennett" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:39:46 -0500 X-Message-Number: 20 Airspeed not much, rate of climb, yes. Steve Bennett ---------- >From: Oscar Zuniga >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] KR 2 from Italy...VW help needed >Date: Wed, Jun 23, 1999, 7:25 AM > >Hi, netters > >I don't know if this made it to the Net, but I got a copy and Ross hasn't >replied yet, and we have a cry for help. Any takers??: > >>From: "Franco Bucci" >>Dear friends, >>i'm an homebuilder living in Florence,Italy. >>I have a stock KR 2 built from plans, equipped with a >>1835 cc VW conversion by Great Plains and a 52X48 Sterba prop. >>It is a very nice plane; i have 200 hours on it and i love fly >>with this enjoiable aircraft. >>Performance are good, i cruise at 3000 rpm at 135/140 mph >>and full at 3200 at 150mph. >>I woul know if upgrading engine to 2180, performance change >>drammatically. >>I'll like know yours experiences in this field, and your >>suggestions about my questions. >>My best regards. >>Franco Bucci > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: gpasc@earthlink.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Non vertical stern post From: "John Martindale" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:45:41 X-Message-Number: 21 Boys, I gotta small problem. I had my stern post vertical when it was glued to the upside down fuselage flush on the table. After turning the fuse over and adding the belly skin, the post is now very slightly out of plumb, ie., the fuse has somehow developed a very slight "spiral twist" from front to back. Its only about 1/16" (approx 1/2 of a degree)of twist when measured around stern post glue joint but, over the 40 " length of post results in the top being about 1/4" out of plumb. If I remove and reglue the post vertical (done twice now)I can't get a parallel line between the side skins (wind seal) and the rudder. If I warp the post, the rudder hinges won't align. Does anyone know how to brace the the fuse to remove this slight twist. It not a lot and would probably fly OK as is but it is just discernable to the eye like a dog with one floppy ear. Could the forward fin spar be stressed somehow to straighten it out? Am I making sense here? See Ya John. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Non vertical stern post From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:09:59 -0500 X-Message-Number: 22 John wrote: > I gotta small problem. I had my stern post vertical when it was glued to > the upside down fuselage flush on the table. After turning the fuse over > and adding the belly skin, the post is now very slightly out of plumb... Don't worry about it until after you're main wing spars are built. Then take one of the many tapered scraps that you'll have left over and glue it to the deficit side of the vertical stab spar. Use a belt sander or planer to knock off the extra 1/4" from the other side. As for twist, a quick sanding job on the plywood "rib" will fix it so that it proects straight ahead. How do I know? Well, as you know it's pretty tough to fasten the sides together with all of the stresses involved and have that thing end up perfectly vertical. I also used a plumb bob suspended from a tight nylon line above to get the ribs/templates perfectly in line with the centerline. But there is reason to believe that if it's slightly offset in one direction, it will help offset p-factor and propwash effects too. I just wasn't sure which way my engine was going to turn (and I'm still not positive what I'm going to use) so I made it go straight ahead. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:52:26 EDT X-Message-Number: 23 Hi, I need to flox 1/4 " Aluminum engine mounts to the fuselage. I almost did it today by using EZ-Poxy but then thought that maybe T-88 is better for that puropse. Which one should I use? Thanks Haris Ashraf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Belly board From: "Lynn Hyder" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:16:38 X-Message-Number: 24 am wondering what your testing has shown useing the belly air brake. size-holes-yes-no and their size... I plan on putting one on my KR-1.5 projuct. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:13:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 25 > I need to flox 1/4 " Aluminum engine mounts to the fuselage. I almost did it > today by using EZ-Poxy but then thought that maybe T-88 is better for that > puropse. Haris, My vote's for T-88 anytime it involves wood. I've used it to epoxy aluminum to wood and later had to remove it. The wood had to break first, despite the fact that I hadn't prepared the aluminum for bonding ( I usually scratch up the surface with my orbital palm sander). I'm sold on this stuff... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ----- Original Message ----- From: To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 10:52 PM Subject: [kr-net] T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood > Hi, > > I need to flox 1/4 " Aluminum engine mounts to the fuselage. I almost did it > today by using EZ-Poxy but then thought that maybe T-88 is better for that > puropse. > > Which one should I use? > > Thanks > > Haris Ashraf > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: langford@hiwaay.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com