From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 12:15 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: July 30, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Friday, July 30, 1999. 1. Re: Hotwire Knife 2. Re: Hotwire Knife 3. [Fwd: [Fwd: 178 Seconds To Live]] 4. N541RY Progress Report (Paint & Fuel System) 5. Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: 178 Seconds To Live]] 6. Re: N541RY Progress Report (Paint & Fuel System) 7. Broken Canopy 8. Re: Broken Canopy 9. taxes... 10. Re: taxes... 11. Re: elevator presure and feel 12. Re: N541RY Progress Report (Paint & Fuel System) 13. Re: Slamming pilots 14. Oshkosh Update 15. Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: 178 Seconds To Live]] 16. Re: 178 Seconds To Live 17. Re: Oshkosh Update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Hotwire Knife From: Malcolm Hartman Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:47:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Message-Number: 1 Best thing for a hot wire control is a variac. --- Mark Jones wrote: > Malcolm Hartman wrote: > > > Has someone come up with a new > > procedure to use polystyrene in the wings and tail > > since I completed my 2s. > > Urethane foam was used in the KR plans due to the > ease of sanding. > Basically it is totally up to the builder if they > prefer to use another > type of foam. The foam provides little structural > strength. It is for the > purpose of supporting the shape of the glass. Most > of the structural > support occurs where the glass meets the wood spars, > this is why a good > bond is necessary there. > > Can you tell us how to build a hot-wire control box? > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Waukesha, WI > flykr2s@execpc.com > http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > n926fw@yahoo.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Hotwire Knife From: Willard561@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:57:20 EDT X-Message-Number: 2 In a message dated 7/30/99 5:54:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time, n926fw@yahoo.com writes: << Best thing for a hot wire control is a variac. --- Mark Jones wrote: > Malcolm Hartman wrote: > > > Has someone come up with a new > > procedure to use polystyrene in the wings and tail > > since I completed my 2s. > > Urethane foam was used in the KR plans due to the > ease of sanding. > Basically it is totally up to the builder if they > prefer to use another > type of foam. The foam provides little structural > strength. It is for the > purpose of supporting the shape of the glass. Most > of the structural > support occurs where the glass meets the wood spars, > this is why a good > bond is necessary there. > > Can you tell us how to build a hot-wire control box? > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Waukesha, WI > flykr2s@execpc.com > http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage >> I would suggest using a isolation transformer before the Variac to make you chances on electrocution smaller, this is a old electronics trick that a lot of people have forgotten. Bill Higdon Willard561@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: 178 Seconds To Live]] From: tom Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:42:40 -0400 X-Message-Number: 3 Since it is Friday, I thought I would pass this along. With many of us flying to the upcoming Gathering, it seems timely. > > Subject: 178 Seconds to Live > > Author: "Miller Barry J. LtCol" [SMTP:MillerBa@andrews.af.mil] at > EXCHANGE > > Date: 7/23/99 9:32 AM > > > > > > Perhaps we're looking at what happened to John Kennedy? > > > > An interesting view from the eyes of disoriented pilot---or VFR only pilot > > not trained or equipped for instrument flight. > > > > 178 Seconds to Live > > > > How long can a pilot who has little or no instrument training expect to > live > > after he flies into bad weather and loses visual contact? Researchers at > the > > University of Illinois did some tests and came up with some very > interesting > > data. Twenty student "guinea pigs" flew into simulated instrument weather, > > and all went into graveyard spirals or rollercoasters [a tribute to the U > of > > I flight training program??]. The outcome differed in only one respect - > the > > time required till control was lost. The interval ranged from 480 seconds > to > > 20 seconds. The average time was 178 seconds-two seconds short of three > > minutes. > > > > Here's the fatal scenario. . . . . . . > > > > The sky is overcast and the visibility is poor. That reported five mile > > visibility looks more like two, and you can't judge the height of the > > overcast. Your altimeter tells you that you are at 1500 feet but your map > > tells you that there's lcoal terrain as high as 1200 feet. There might be > a > > tower nearby because you're not sure how far off course you are. But > you've > > flown into worse weather than this, so press on. You find yourself > > unconsciously easing back just a bit on the controls to clear those > towers. > > With no warning, you're in the soup. You peer so hard into the milky white > > mist that your eyes hurt. You fight the feeling in your stomach. You try > to > > swallow, only to find your mouth dry. Now you realize you should have > > waited for better weather. The appointment was important, but not all that > > important. Somewhere a voice is saying, "You've had it- it's all over!" > > > > You now have 178 seconds to live. > > > > Your aircraft feels on even keel but your compass turns slowly. You push a > > little rudder and add a little pressure on the controls to stop the turn > but > > this feels unnatural and you return the controls to their original > position. > > This feels better but now your compass is turning a little faster and your > > airspeed is increasing slightly. You scan your instruments for help but > what > > you see looks somewhat unfamiliar. You're sure that this is just a bad > spot. > > You'll break out in a few > > minutes. (But you don't have a few minutes left. . .) > > > > You now have 100 seconds to live. > > > > You glance at your altimeter and you are shocked to see it unwinding. > > You're already down to 1200 feet. Instinctively, you pull back on the > > controls but the altimeter still unwinds. The engine is into the red and > the > > airspeed, nearly so. > > > > You have 45 seconds to live. > > > > Now you're sweating and shaking. There must be something wrong with the > > controls; pulling back only moves the airspeed indicator further into the > > red. You can hear the wind tearing at the aircraft. > > > > You are about to meet your Maker; you have 10 seconds to live. > > > > Suddenly you see the ground. The trees rush up at you. You can see the > > horizon if you turn your head far enough but it's at a weird angle-you're > > almost inverted. You open your mouth to scream but. . . . . . > > . . . .you just ran out of seconds. > > > > Think about it before you press on into marginal weather. > > > > > > -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: N541RY Progress Report (Paint & Fuel System) From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:57:37 -0700 X-Message-Number: 4 Whew! PAINT: Spent today spraying primer. I have been using System III primer and topcoat, but had a quart of featherfil so I decided to get rid of this quart on the bottom of my cowling today. What a mess! My next airplane will be sent to a paint shop, I'm tired of the overspray! I had to add some big pouches to the bottom of my cowling to make room for the heat muff I installed last month. This meant adding foam to the left side of the cowling (viewed from front). Then to make it look OK, I had to add foam to the right side as well. It's just beyond ugly at this point. The featherfill will mostly be sanded away, and I have one last bit of System III primer to cover it and the flaps. This should do a reasonable job of covering. Featherfil is a polyester based primer, and System III is an epoxy primer. I'm not sure how compatable they are, but I used feather fill on the tail feathers, and later primed with System III with no problems. The featherfill is NASTY stuff, and hard to clean out of the gun. System III is much nicer but takes DAYS to cure where the featherfill can be sanded in about 1 hour. There are advantages to using traditional paint technology... it's faster! The System III stuff takes several days to cure before you can topcoat. I have also abandonded my rule of only using dry micro filler on the lower cowling. My hangar mate was using some bondo, and he was done in a couple of hours on his Zodiac cowling... dry micro takes a day or two to cure. So... I bought a gallon of bondo for $12.00 and have made my lower cowling a counterweight by using about 20 pounds of the stuff. The nice thing is it cures quickly and it's cheap. I hope to have the ailerons topcoated by the end of the weekend, and will try to melt me some lead counterweights. Any suggestions on what to use... the cardboard idea mentioned in the plans doesn't sound too good. I bought some plaster of paris to make a mold, but can't find it... FUEL: My hangar mate reviewed my fuel system, and didn't like the idea of "sucking" fuel through the fuel filters. His argument was that a vacuum on this side could cause the fuel to boil and create vapor lock, and other problems. Since I have been having problems priming the system, I figured this was a good time to re-route the lines. I've got all the fittings, and have done one side, but need to do the other. By the end of the weekend, I hope to have my fuel restrictions resolved, and be taxi ready. I hope to pull the wings, install the ailerons, and solve my fuel "seepage" problem all this weekend as well. We shall see if I can maintain focus. If anyone is interested, I looked in my construction log, and have about 1150 hours so far. (There are MANY hours not logged). My hangar mate just flew off his 40 hours on his Zenair Zodiac, which is one reason for my motivation. See you guys later! -- Regards Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: 178 Seconds To Live]] From: "Jeff Scott" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:41:35 X-Message-Number: 5 On 07/30/99, "tom " wrote: > Since it is Friday, I thought I would pass this along. With many of us > flying to the upcoming Gathering, it seems timely. > > > > > Subject: 178 Seconds to Live Soapbox mode on>>> Come on guys! You can either fly your gyros or you can't. If you can't, you can learn to with some practice and training. Quite frankly, although I am not instrument rated, I have punched through cloud decks, flown at night, flown in rain, flown in heavy haze, and flown in heavy haze at night and am still here to talk about it. All this stuff of pilots carrying on about how non-instrument rated pilots shouldn't be allowed to fly at night, shouldn't be allowed to fly in haze, shouldnt be allowed this and shouldn't be allowed that is a bunch of nonsense that is going to cost all of us priviledges that we all enjoy. I don't do some of the above listed activities in my KR becuase it is not properly equipped, nor is it nearly as stable as other planes I have owned. The bottom line here is to know your limitations and know the limitations of your plane. JFK jr apparently didn't. Soapbox mode off>>>> War tale time>>>> Probably the scariest moment in a plane was when I lost 3 out of 6 cylinders in my old Stinson at night in the mountains. At that point in time I knew that if something good didn't happen within a matter of seconds, I was going get to see how this movie ends. Fortunately something good did happen and I was able to nurse enough out of what was left of my engine to just make the nearest airport. Why was I out flying at night? I was flying over to another airport to shoot some night landings to boost my confidence after having dinged up my other plane due to a brake failure during a tailwind landing on a hillside 4 days before. It was an expensive week. War tale over>>>> Jeff Scott mailto: jscott.pilot@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: N541RY Progress Report (Paint & Fuel System) From: tom Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:03:42 -0400 X-Message-Number: 6 Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > I hope to have the ailerons topcoated by the end of the weekend, > and will try to melt me some lead counterweights. Any suggestions > on what to use... the cardboard idea mentioned in the plans doesn't > sound too good. I bought some plaster of paris to make a mold, but > can't find it... > Ross, I made my forms for the counterweights out of 1/2" plywood screwed together with drywall screws. I wrapped duct tape around all seams so the molten lead would not leak. Quick and dirty- worked well. The wood burns a little, but does not affect the final result. Also- I found that a wood rasp works well to shape the lead after you are done and trying to make it fit. Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Broken Canopy From: "Austin and Connie Clark" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:54:02 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 I have been working on my canopy frame and in the process I have cracked my canopy!! It has a crack from about the center of the back edge and running in about 8 in slightly angled to the right side. I am trying to come up with some options short of buying another one. The first thing I thought about was to drill a hole at the end of the crack to try to stop it from getting any worse. Anyone have any experience with this? What size hole, precautions? I also thought about filling the crack with some epoxy. I plan to build gull wing doors, so the section with the crack will be cut out and trashed. I did not want to do this though, until I had the canopy and frame as one piece. It is a dragonfly canopy and very flimsy. Should I go ahead and split the canopy or bond it to the frame first. I was surprised at how easy it broke! You guys with Dfly canopies had better handle them with care. Get someone to help you when you have to move it! Made my day, Austin Clark KR2S Pascagoula, MS www.datasync.com/~itac/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Broken Canopy From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:06:22 -0700 X-Message-Number: 8 Austin and Connie Clark wrote: > > I have been working on my canopy frame and in the process I have cracked my > canopy!! The first thing I thought > about was to drill a hole at the end of the crack to try to stop it from > getting any worse. Anyone have any experience with this? -------------- According to Tony Bengelis and other books I have read you need to use a dull drill bit. Or you can grind or file the point or cutting edge down so the bit does not cut its way through the plastic but just grinds its way through. A sharp bit will grab and crack the plastic further. The hole does not have to be that big. Hope this helps. Talking about canopies and plastic,.. I was over at the Boeing surplus yard today. They had stacks and stacks of 4 X 8 sheets of Lexan and other poly carbonate. It was marked $34.00 a sheet. Problem was they would not sell any of it to me because their supplier found out they were selling it to the public and told them to stop. I guess they had something in their contract with Boeing that any surplus goes back to the supplier and not to the general public. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA, North end of Boeing field ------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: taxes... From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:34:29 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 Well, this is off the subject, but I'm just letting you know that if you register early, this little pleasure awaits you too. And it's been kinda quiet since I slapped everybody's wrist with the Netiquette post anyway. Some of you old timers may remember a few years ago when I whined about the state of Alabama wanting me to pay taxes on my airplane that didn't exist yet. That event was triggered by my early registration in order to lock in my tail number (as if anybody else would want N56ML for some reason). After I explained that it wasn't an airplane yet, they said "fine, then send us all the receipts for everything you've ever bought to construct it from out of state, and an update each month". My answer to that was never buy anything out of state after that. But now the COUNTY wants to know how much my project is worth so they can tax me on it. I'm just a little peaved that they're going to tax a pile of wood that may some day be an airplane. Any of you guys ever paid taxes on a car you've got jacked up on blocks? I didn't think so. I'm sure that Alabama isn't the only state that does this, but when you register a homebuilt here, the state immediately wants you to pay taxes on it, just like if you were regestering a new car. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: taxes... From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:20:05 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 In Oregon, the state Aeronautics board wanted to know if the plane was flyable. Since mine isn't, I don't have to register until within 90 days of the date it becomes flyable. But then we don't have sales tax here in Oregon. -- Ross Mark Langford wrote: > > Well, this is off the subject, but I'm just letting you know that if you > register early, this little pleasure awaits you too. And it's been kinda > quiet since I slapped everybody's wrist with the Netiquette post anyway. > > Some of you old timers may remember a few years ago when I whined about the > state of Alabama wanting me to pay taxes on my airplane that didn't exist > yet. That event was triggered by my early registration in order to lock in > my tail number (as if anybody else would want N56ML for some reason). After > I explained that it wasn't an airplane yet, they said "fine, then send us > all the receipts for everything you've ever bought to construct it from out > of state, and an update each month". > > My answer to that was never buy anything out of state after that. But now > the COUNTY wants to know how much my project is worth so they can tax me on > it. I'm just a little peaved that they're going to tax a pile of wood that > may some day be an airplane. Any of you guys ever paid taxes on a car > you've got jacked up on blocks? I didn't think so. > > I'm sure that Alabama isn't the only state that does this, but when you > register a homebuilt here, the state immediately wants you to pay taxes on > it, just like if you were regestering a new car. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: elevator presure and feel From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:18:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 11 I just finished hooking up my control cables to the elevator and aileron belcrank. I did not balance my elevator. Therefore the weight of the elevator puts pressure on the stick so when I move the elevator up, it takes more pressure then when I move the elevator down. Going down it just falls by itself. The question is!!! Is this going to make a hill of beans when I ever get this bird in the air. Other then this small glitch it's pretty neat to finally be able to move the elevator with the stick. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field ------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: N541RY Progress Report (Paint & Fuel System) From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:21:06 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 Thanks Tom, I will try this out this weekend, (I think). -- Ross tom wrote: > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > > > I hope to have the ailerons topcoated by the end of the weekend, > > and will try to melt me some lead counterweights. Any suggestions > > on what to use... the cardboard idea mentioned in the plans doesn't > > sound too good. I bought some plaster of paris to make a mold, but > > can't find it... > > > > Ross, > > I made my forms for the counterweights out of 1/2" plywood screwed > together with drywall screws. I wrapped duct tape around all seams so > the molten lead would not leak. Quick and dirty- worked well. > The wood burns a little, but does not affect the final result. > > Also- I found that a wood rasp works well to shape the lead after you > are done and trying to make it fit. > > Tom Crawford > Gainesville, FL > N262TC > Mailto:toys@atlantic.net > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Slamming pilots From: Michael Taglieri Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:04:47 -0400 X-Message-Number: 13 I've also noticed that the anti-general aviation stories throw numbers around without thinking through their ramifications. The New York Times had a long article recently on how Extremely Dangerous general aviation is, and that the death rate is 1.35 fatalities per 100,000 hours, far higher than the airlines. The also mentioned in the article that the average GA pilot flies less than 100 hours per year. I sent a letter to the editor pointing out that these numbers necessarily mean that the average GA pilot will have about one fatality per thousand years, which is good enough for me. Obviously, it didn't get printed. Mike Taglieri >What I don't understand is how people ignore the tens of thousands of >automobile deaths each year and instead focus on the small number of GA >deaths? Why aren't they enraged about automobile safety? You cannot make a >single cross-country trip in your car without seeing an accident on the side >of the road. Can anyone explain why people ignore the risks of driving then >go nuts about the risks of flying? I'm serious, I just don't get it. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Oshkosh Update From: "Dean Collette" Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:15:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 Netters, I thought I would pass along a little update regarding this years Oshkosh Fly-in. I spent the day up there yesterday. The day started out fairly miserable - the temps were near 100 with a dewpoint in the 80s. Not one KR made it this year. When it's this hot, vendors don't really want to show you stuff, pilots aren't all that thrilled to talk about their planes, and in general people develop a cow-like mentality - they all crowd together in any place where's there's a square foot of shade and just stand there sweating. However, you know those guys that try to get you to fill out the little form and they give you a number to win something - well, I was swooned by this pretty little blonde who was trying to get me to subscribe to something or other. I filled out the card, and she said "make sure you stop back after 3:00 to see if you won. I wasn't even sure what the prize was. I went on with my business, and later during the day, while looking for something else I happened to pull out that card. Since I was in the hangar were she had coerced me to give out all of my particulars. I checked my watch, and yep, it was after three, so I went over there. What do you know, but I won! First thing I have ever won in my entire life!! I couldn't believe it. I kept waiting for the "catch", but it never came. Keep in mind, I'm the guy that can't win a thing from McDonalds. I spent 3 months trying to win a free cup of coffee and a donut at the local gas station and couldn't, so imagine my astonishment when they said "here's your free Icom IC-A22 handheld. Enjoy!" I'm still stunned! I'm sure you heard about the crash yesterday. The short version of it is there were 2 Bearcats and 2 Corsairs that had taken the active and had been cleared for takeoff by the tower. What happened next is still pretty much a mystery. One of the Corsairs (a guy from Texas) clipped a wing of one of the Bearcats. That spun the Corsair to the right, and then it started cartwheeling. The plane burst into flames and was totally destroyed. The pilot is still in critical condition at a local hospital. I was at the field at the time, but didn't see the crash. I did see the smoke and heard the airboss close the airport. That was enough for me. Temps are supposed to cool off late this weekend, so I will head back up there for another day or 2. Despite the high prices, crowds, and lack of KRs, I'm still a sucker for airplanes (and pretty little blondes.) Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin mailto:drdean@execpc.com Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: 178 Seconds To Live]] From: Michael Taglieri Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:16:12 -0400 X-Message-Number: 15 >> > 178 Seconds to Live >> > >> > How long can a pilot who has little or no instrument training expect to live >> > after he flies into bad weather and loses visual contact? Researchers at the >> > University of Illinois did some tests and came up with some very interesting >> > data. . . . . I've heard about this research, but that was with people who had no instrument training. The FAA has long required VFR pilots to learn enough to keep the plane straight and level, and to make a 180. If a certain celebrity pilot had made that 180, he'd probably still be alive today. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 178 Seconds To Live From: Ron Lee Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:18:10 -0600 X-Message-Number: 16 At 01:16 AM 7/31/99 -0400, you wrote: >>> > 178 Seconds to Live >>> > >>> > How long can a pilot who has little or no instrument training expect to live after he flies into bad weather and loses visual contact? >Researchers at the University of Illinois did some tests and came up with some very interesting data. . . . . > >I've heard about this research, but that was with people who had no >instrument training. The FAA has long required VFR pilots to learn >enough to keep the plane straight and level, and to make a 180. If a >certain celebrity pilot had made that 180, he'd probably still be alive >today. > >Mike Taglieri > This scenario would also apply to a pilot who is not current in such IFR flight. The person in question exercised poor judgement in taking off in such conditions...then (if he had an autopilot), disengaging the autopilot before he had clear reference to land/lights. A week ago I went with an instructor to refresh my ability to fly on instruments alone and right the aircraft from non-level flight. My saving grace is I know I am not the best pilot around and I get additional training as required or limit myself appropriately. Ron Lee ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Oshkosh Update From: Ron Lee Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:22:16 -0600 X-Message-Number: 17 At 01:15 AM 7/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >I spent the day up there yesterday. The day started out fairly >miserable - the temps were near 100 with a dewpoint in the 80s. One big reason I have no desire to go there. Change it to October and it would be fun. so imagine my astonishment when they said "here's your free >Icom IC-A22 handheld. Enjoy!" I'm still stunned! Congrats. That made the suffering well worth it. I'm still a sucker for airplanes (and pretty little >blondes.) If you find one who is single, relay my email address. I provide excellent Colorado tours to blondes (women of course) Ron Lee >Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin >mailto:drdean@execpc.com >Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ronlee@pcisys.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com