From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:28 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: August 03, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Tuesday, August 03, 1999. 1. Re: oshkosh 2. Re: Oshkosh 3. Re: Troy's Plane 4. Re: oshkosh 5. new wing and fuselage shape 6. Re: Troy's Plane 7. Re: Troy's Plane 8. Static Pressure Sources 9. Re: Static port location 10. Re: oshkosh 11. Re: oshkosh 12. re: OSH and KRgathering 13. Re: new wing and fuselage shape 14. Re: new wing and fuselage shape 15. William Wynne at the Gathering 16. Re: William Wynne at the Gathering 17. Re: oshkosh 18. VW engine cg's 19. Re: engine 4 sell 20. 200 HP Mazda? 21. RE; Hood Time LONG 22. KR Covensions 23. Engine weights (William Wynne at the Gathering) 24. Re: Langford & Corvair....power 25. N998MG Flight 26. Re: 2180 engine 27. Re: oshkosh 28. Re: oshkosh 29. Re: A Low-Cost Aviation Gasoline that gets the lead out 30. Re: oshkosh 31. Re: 2180 engine 32. Re: oshkosh 33. Re: 2180 engine 34. Re: oshkosh 35. Re: N998MG Flight 36. Re: 2180 engine 37. 1st flight stories 38. Re: oshkosh 39. Re: 2180 engine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Jim Faughn Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 06:16:23 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 I can only speak for myself. We did "boycott" Oshkosh after the 92 event. They really didn't provide much support for our event to celebrate the 20th year. Although it was hard, I got some of the guys in 97 and went back up again to celebrate the 25th year. That was a good event but it was a zoo. I haven't gone since then because it just isn't fun. You have to worry about people hitting your airplane with their lawn chairs and kids (of all ages) shaking your elevator, rudder, and ailerons, then there is the heat and the storms in August. Most of the pilots I know, just don't enjoy flying in anymore. I have a great time at the KR Gathering and I think that is also the opinion of the other people I know. It is the type of event where you get to know people, you can actually help them with their problems, provide some motivation, fly your plane, and just have a great time. There is an entire new crop of KR's that are coming out of garages. Perhaps some of the new KR completors would like to help organize something at Oshkosh that could provide some of the components I mentioned and see how it goes. Remember, KR Pilots (and builders) just want to have fun. --------------- >I'll reserve my judgment on > this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says > something (I just don't know what it says). The old timers may want to elaborate on this, but a lot of the "problem" with Oshkosh is that the KR pilots felt like they were slighted one year, and as any RV builder will be quick to point out, KRs are generally looked down upon by "real" aircraft builders. KRs just don't get much respect at Oshkosh, but they sure get a lot at the Gatherings! I will probably fly mine to Oshkosh as often as possible, just because I like to go, and it's the fastest way I have to get there (once it's built). Bottom line with Oshkosh is that many KR pilots are boycotting, for one reason or another... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net (314) 652-7659 or Cell (314) 346-4038 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Oshkosh From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 04:53:41 PDT X-Message-Number: 2 > There is nothing else you can build that will go as fast with out >laying out big bucks for the kit. That the key, why lots of kr's arent at Oshkosh anymore - Big Bucks. Dont be fooled by the fun of it all, Oshkosh used to be a "fly-in" Now it is as much of a trade show as Semicon, OEM etc. The EAA and the Vendors are there to get customers and make money. Experimentals are the fastest growing segment of the aviation market. Thats why vendors who historically catered to the commercial market are showing up there. The spam can manufacturers with there 50 year old designs have to show up just to hold on to their market share and sell to the guys who want to fly but dont have the knowledge, time or b*lls to build there own. Now those RV guys and the others with those snap together kits are raking it in. Kr's dont make anyone (including RR) lots of money. If we had lots of Dough we would be building Columbia 300's or something else. Rich Parker Peterborough NH _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Troy's Plane From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:08:58 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 > How about recovering from a spin? I think I would want all the elevator > I could get at such a time. I thought it was the rudder that got you out of a spin. And then the elevator gets you out of the dive. If you just pull up on the elevator it makes it worse, right? Not that I'm any expert. What Troy meant when he said that was that if you made the elevator small enough, you probably couldn't stall it in the first place, to get it into a spin. Several planes are built on that premise, not that I agree with that mentality. It's kinda like saying if all cars had 5 hp engines, the fatality rate would plummet (bad choice of words, maybe?)... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Krwr1@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:30:15 EDT X-Message-Number: 4 I think because the KR was so cheap to build , that a lot of people built them that should have stayed on the ground . I have seen some KR's at Oshkosh that should never have gotten off the ground. I don't know how they ever got past the inspection from the FAA . That is part of the reason for the feeling of some guys at Oshkosh . I was close to some of the aircraft , when people were looking and commenting on some of the KR's that I would be ashamed to call my own . Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: new wing and fuselage shape From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:24 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 Somebody asked about a "graphic" of the new wing. There's an image of the new wing and the fuselage interface at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/48_fuse.jpg . This particular drawing is to show what you guys who are starting from scratch might want to do to blend the fuselage to the wing a little better. The drawing is the wing stuck to a stock fuselage, so you can see the interface between the wing the fuselage if nothing changes. The "boat" sides can be recontoured to approximately the wing shape. If I were going to do it, I'd make the firewall 2" taller, run the longeron to the stock main spar location point, bend it up so that it was 1.3" higher than the plans call for at the aft spar (giving you 1 degree of incidence automatically) and then let the longeron gradually find it's own way to the tail. This is just a "serving suggestion", if I were doing it myself. Coordinates for all of these airfoils are located at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/as504x.html , info on ordering templates is at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/ ,and I'm doing my best not to advertise. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Troy's Plane From: Ron Lee Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 07:00:09 -0600 X-Message-Number: 6 At 07:08 AM 8/3/99 -0500, you wrote: > >> How about recovering from a spin? I think I would want all the elevator >> I could get at such a time. > >I thought it was the rudder that got you out of a spin. And then the >elevator gets you out of the dive. If you just pull up on the elevator it >makes it worse, right? Not that I'm any expert. > I am not an aero engineer but you need the elevator to break the STALL associated with a spin. Rudder stops the spinning but you are still stalled. I would be very cautious about making the elevator too small with the ASSUMPTION that you would never get into a stall. You may not not examine the many ways to get into one then stall and find you have inadequate elevator to get out of it. Ron Lee >What Troy meant when he said that was that if you made the elevator small >enough, you probably couldn't stall it in the first place, to get it into a >spin. Several planes are built on that premise, not that I agree with that >mentality. It's kinda like saying if all cars had 5 hp engines, the >fatality rate would plummet (bad choice of words, maybe?)... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ronlee@pcisys.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Troy's Plane From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:08:41 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 Like I've said, I would NOT start a stampede to the "tiny elevator club". I am in NO WAY advocating it, and if you REALLY want to know what I think..... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Static Pressure Sources From: "Walter Lounsbery" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:10:01 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 OK, this subject is getting way too interesting to stay quiet. You may want to consider a tube-type static source. Close off the front and drill small holes on each side. Rig it off the wing outside the span affected by propwash. This is sometimes placed close to the dynamic source tube. This can be affected by wing aerodynamics and has greater lag in the system due to air volume and tube length. Does aft fuselage have problems? May give false readings with flaps, sideslip, or due to aerodynamics of the fuselage (but sourcing off both sides helps sideslip error). I don't know what gives good static readings over the envelope except a good wind tunnel calibration backed by flight test. We see the interesting stall speed claims mainly due to the fact that nobody can afford that. Commercial jets have the best systems, calibrated in flight test by a trailing drogue static system. An enormous reel runs a line out the top of the vertical fin to get a static source outside the influence of airplane aerodynamics. A final trivia question: How many static sources does an F-22 have? Walter Lounsbery POB 54266 Hurst, TX 76054 (817) 285-8520 Walt@Lounsbery.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Static port location From: Willard561@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:14:50 EDT X-Message-Number: 9 In a message dated 8/2/99 7:15:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time, msgtlg@netins.net writes: << KR Netters I talked to a good A & P mechanic about the best place to put the static port. He advised me to ask the guys that are flying KR's because on productin aircraft they do alot of tests to determine the best location for it. So on the KR where is the air least likely to be disturbed? Mike Garbez N998MG Griswold IA >> Mike: I will check my old VP-1 plans, but aas memory serves me, it had a staic port on each side behind the cockpit. I am not sure how far from the top it was. I will look and post the info. Also there was an article in Sport Aviation that used a funnel & plastic tubing as a temporary calibration source. If I can find the article I will post the Issue. Bill Higdon Willard561@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 06:29:26 PDT X-Message-Number: 10 > I think because the KR was so cheap to build , that a lot of people built >them that should have stayed on the ground . I have seen some KR's at >Oshkosh >that should never have gotten off the ground. I don't know how they ever >got >past the inspection from the FAA If you saw them at Oshkosh then they were obviously airworthy unless they trucked them in. They might not have been pretty but they flew. RP _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: tom Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:39:52 -0400 X-Message-Number: 11 SkyHawk11@aol.com wrote: > > 808BS almost made it . He got as far as Mo. when his brand new ValCom > radio stuck all four feet in the air and died. He and his son landed but the > radio was not repaiable with what they had. They turned around and flew back > to Tx. They flew a total of 8 hours round trip and were very disappointed. > > Could not find a hand held at the little airport they landed at. > > 808BS 3mo old KR2S with 52 hours on it performed perfectly. Flying a VW > engine 2300 CC. > > Submitted by SkyHawk11 as 808BS doesnt do internet. > > Speaking of the VAL COMM 760- I bought one new, put it in my plane, and have had nothing but problems with it. 4 different problems since I bought it 2 years ago. I bought it because it was the lowest price panel mount I could find. FAA TSO'd and all that other crap. Next time, I will buy the ICOM. Only a couple of hundred $ more, but probably a better radio. There- I feel much better now! Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: re: OSH and KRgathering From: "John Bryhan" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 7:11:51 X-Message-Number: 12 >Remember, KR Pilots (and builders) just want to have fun. Sounds like Jim is writing another song!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: new wing and fuselage shape From: Stefan Balatchev Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:07:56 +0100 X-Message-Number: 13 Hello KR-Netters, First of all, let me introduce myself. My name is Stefan and I am a Frenc= h homebuilder and I am involved in the construction of a KR-type airplane. = As Don Reid, I need something "XL-arger" than a stock KR2S - I am 1.90 m and my = average weight is about 102 kg (+ or - depending of the nice "Cuisine Francaise")= . My plane will have a gross weight of 620 kg (est.) and I will use a stabilat= or instead of elevator. I am also going with the AS504x series of airfoils. = I begun the construction on the 12-th of June 1999 and tonight I have to finish t= he two "boat"sides (I have to remove the excess of glued plywood). Well, I couldn't find the T-88 in France and I am using an "old-fashioned= " resorcinol glue. Up to now, I had just a private correspondence with Mark Langford, Don Re= id and Eduardo Iglesias. Many thanks to all of them for their prompt and complet= e answers to my questions. Now, about the fuselage shape. Actually, I have reshaped my fuselage to b= lend the root AS5048 wing for 1=B0 of incidence. The problem I had, was with t= he elasticity of the spruce bottom longeron - it is really difficult to pres= s this longeron to the two perpendicular spruce members at each side of the rear= spar when gluing. At the first test I have just damaged the wood with my pine self-made clamps - the spruce is a soft wood however. The second time was= more successful - I used a pine piece to interface the clamps to the longeron.= This pine piece had the mirror shape of the desired portion of the longeron at= some 12 cm. Stefan Balatchev. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: new wing and fuselage shape From: Steven Eberhart Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:36:34 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 14 On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Mark Langford wrote: [snip] > Coordinates for all of these airfoils are located at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/as504x.html , info on ordering templates is > at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/ ,and I'm doing my best not to > advertise. The airfoil project was conceived right here on KRnet. It was KRnet members that paid for the wind tunnel time. Mark Langford not only contributed his $100 to the airfoil fund but is providing full size templates to all airfoil fund contributors. That is a substantial contribution. Mark has put the coordinates for the airfoils on his web site and the University of Illinois will be doing so as well. If anyone wants to use the airfoils for any purpose, there is no charge for the coordinates. If you want to save time and start out with professional, exact, templates give Mark Langford or Dean Collette at TET a call. Mark Lougheed will probably be adding the templates to those already on his N.E.A.R. site as well. As far as I am concerned, these are the KRnet airfoils. Talking about them on KRnet and anyone that is making products utilizing them doesn't come under the no commercialization guidelines - KRnet commissioned them in the first place. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: William Wynne at the Gathering From: Steven Eberhart Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:49:29 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 15 Just got off the phone with William Wynne, "The Corvair Guy", and he is going to try to get to the Gathering. He will be flying in with his Corvair powered Pietenpol. He should bring a wealth of information about Corvair engines to the Gathering. As more information is available I will update KRnet. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: William Wynne at the Gathering From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:56:09 -0500 X-Message-Number: 16 Steve Eberhart wrote: > Just got off the phone with William Wynne, "The Corvair Guy", and he is > going to try to get to the Gathering. Do yourself a favor and don't come listen to this guy. If you do, you'll find yourself building a Corvair engine for your plane. I've heard the sermon, and I've seen the light! With a total weight of 225 pounds (not counting mount), you'll have a starter and alternator, 6 cylinders, at least 135 hp (at 3800 rpm with the big bore cylinders), and a bottom end that won't quit. I'm building mine right now. I'll have $2500 into it, with all new pistons, cylinders, HARMONIC BALANCER, valves, valve covers, and lots of other stuff that I don't even need. The engine was $100, and that's a common price. They are readily available (but you have to ferret them out) and parts are plentiful and dirt cheap. I have a very nice 2600 cc Type 4 VW in my basement that I might sell, or it'll end up in my bus or Karmann Ghia. The weight difference and reliability sold me. By the time I got done with the prop shaft thing, my Type 4 would have weighed about the same (if not more), and I'd still only have 110 or 115 hp. And then there's the testing of the prop shaft. Corvairs are tested and proven, and they work. I know what's coming. "There's all that weight!" Yep, but for 50 extra pounds over the weight of a 2180, I'm bringing 70 percent more horsepower to the table. I'll make that trade. I know this is going to be a hard pill to swallow for you guys. Hey, I'm a VW guy too! But reality sinks in eventually. Don't ask me why this thing hasn't caught on yet. All I can say is IT WILL! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:38:11 -0400 X-Message-Number: 17 I was at the 20th year KR dinner. I have not gone back since then. Oshkosh is not a grass roots fly-in anymore The first time I was at Oshkosh was in 1976 it was nice then. They want $1,800 for a spot to display a airplane. We at Ace Aircraft, Inc. was going, but the price for a small company is too high. A spot in Lakeland that was cosyting $600.00 is over one thousand now. the smaller fly-ins are more fun. When I get my KR1 flying later this year I plan on comming to a lot of local fly-ins As I think about it a KR pilot had a heart attack and died at the 20th year fly-in, while in the flybys. He had the only KR that I have seen that had a yoke instead of a stick. Looked nice. R. W. Moore N115RM ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Faughn To: KR-net users group Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 7:16 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: oshkosh > I can only speak for myself. We did "boycott" Oshkosh after the 92 > event. They really didn't provide much support for our event to > celebrate the 20th year. Although it was hard, I got some of the guys in > 97 and went back up again to celebrate the 25th year. That was a good > event but it was a zoo. I haven't gone since then because it just isn't > fun. You have to worry about people hitting your airplane with their > lawn chairs and kids (of all ages) shaking your elevator, rudder, and > ailerons, then there is the heat and the storms in August. Most of the > pilots I know, just don't enjoy flying in anymore. I have a great time > at the KR Gathering and I think that is also the opinion of the other > people I know. It is the type of event where you get to know people, you > can actually help them with their problems, provide some motivation, fly > your plane, and just have a great time. There is an entire new crop of > KR's that are coming out of garages. Perhaps some of the new KR > completors would like to help organize something at Oshkosh that could > provide some of the components I mentioned and see how it goes. > Remember, KR Pilots (and builders) just want to have fun. > > --------------- > >I'll reserve my judgment on > > this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says > > something (I just don't know what it says). > > The old timers may want to elaborate on this, but a lot of the "problem" > > with Oshkosh is that the KR pilots felt like they were slighted one > year, > and as any RV builder will be quick to point out, KRs are generally > looked > down upon by "real" aircraft builders. KRs just don't get much respect > at > Oshkosh, but they sure get a lot at the Gatherings! I will probably fly > > mine to Oshkosh as often as possible, just because I like to go, and > it's > the fastest way I have to get there (once it's built). Bottom line with > > Oshkosh is that many KR pilots are boycotting, for one reason or > another... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > -- > Jim Faughn N8931JF > St. Louis, MO > mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net > (314) 652-7659 or Cell (314) 346-4038 > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: VW engine cg's From: "Wolf Packs, Inc." Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 15:26:51 -0700 X-Message-Number: 18 --=====================_27501228==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I sent this last week but never saw it come through the net. My apologies for the repeat if I just missed seeing it the first time. Someone asked for CG's of VW's and I found this in an old HAPI catalog. I'll try to describe the drawing. With the accessory case, Slick Mag., and prop hub attached the CG is 5.5" in front of the engine case flange (where it bolts to the acces. case), measuring from the FRONT (prop.) side of the flange. It also shows the CG is 7.75" in front of the point where the accessory case meets the engine mount, using their acces. case (which is just under 2" thick if I remember correctly). If you need more clarity e-mail me privately and I'll scan the drawing. Paul Martin Ashland, OR mailto:paul@wolfpacks.com --=====================_27501228==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I sent this last week but never saw it come through the net.  My apologies for the repeat if I just missed seeing it the first time.

Someone asked for CG's of VW's and I found this in an old HAPI catalog.  I'll try to describe the drawing.

With the accessory case, Slick Mag., and prop hub attached the CG is 5.5" in front of the engine case flange (where it bolts to the acces. case), measuring from the FRONT (prop.) side of the flange. 

It also shows the CG is 7.75" in front of the point where the accessory case meets the engine mount, using their acces. case (which is just under 2" thick if I remember correctly).

If you need more clarity e-mail me privately and I'll scan the drawing.

Paul Martin
Ashland, OR
mailto:paul@wolfpacks.com
--=====================_27501228==_.ALT-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: engine 4 sell From: "Benny Skyn" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:02:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 19 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDDE2.B1A54BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1972 type 4 crankcase, crankshaft, pistons cylinders and rods, heads and = valves. crankshaft is drop forged. 1700 cc. everything has been cleaned and = checked. good shape. Best offer. Hate to sell it because I'm going to = need one later but now I need the money. Between jobs. Benny Skyn ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDDE2.B1A54BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
1972 type 4 crankcase, crankshaft, = pistons=20 cylinders and rods, heads and valves.
crankshaft is = drop forged.=20 1700 cc. everything has been cleaned and checked. good shape. Best = offer. Hate=20 to sell it because I'm going to need one later but now I need the money. = Between=20 jobs.
Benny Skyn
 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDDE2.B1A54BA0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 200 HP Mazda? From: Monet Laigo Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:03:32 -0700 X-Message-Number: 20 3, August 1999 Reliability on the Mazda has improved, but seriously, I think that it just might be too much power. Not to mention all the mods required to run the engine in your KR. Better have lots of insurance. Good Luck, Monet ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE; Hood Time LONG From: Monet Laigo Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:04:34 -0700 X-Message-Number: 21 3, August 1999 Dana, Did you ever get bopped on the head like I did? You v'e pretty much have described how I went through hours and hours of hood time during training. I do agree that is the best way to avoid getting into a JFK special. Monet ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR Covensions From: Monet Laigo Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:22:34 -0700 X-Message-Number: 22 Rob, Excuse my curiosity, but did you fly your KR to Oshkosh From South Afrika? Or is your KR based in the States? Would you kindly elaborate. Regards, Monet ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Engine weights (William Wynne at the Gathering) From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:01:55 -0700 X-Message-Number: 23 Mark Langford wrote: > > > With a total weight of 225 pounds (not counting mount), you'll have a > starter and alternator, 6 cylinders, at least 135 hp (at 3800 rpm with the > big bore cylinders), Mark and or some other Vair head. Can you do me a favor and weigh your long block when you get it back together? I don't want some published weight from a web site or book but an actual weight of a completed long block from someone here on the KRnet. Long block is just the engine, no accessories at all. For anyone who is interested I just weighed my O-290 long block (no carb, mags, starter, alternator or exhaust) and it came in at 195 pounds with mount bolted on. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Langford & Corvair....power From: timemach@telusplanet.net Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 19:00:11 -0600 X-Message-Number: 24 Mark.... I remember years ago in Homebuilt Aircraft Magazine (a dam good mag), when someone first tried using the Corvair...the dude had lot's of teething problems but it looked very promising. Since I've been interested in this 6cly but not much info out there. Unfortunatly there was no follow up on the Corvair story as the mag evaporated... This engine has a following in California (what doesn't?) Have to look in my Vee-dub mags. Hope Mark gives us more info on the convair as he moves along. Tim Cold Lake ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: N998MG Flight From: "garbez" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:20:47 -0500 X-Message-Number: 25 Now that I am calmed down enough to analyze the first flight of N998MG. I will tell you about it. I went to the airport Sunday with my wife just to change the oil and adjust the valves and other things. When I was done I decided to go taxi test it to see how she ran. It was a little windy 10 to 15 mph and partly cloudy. I took her out to the runway and started down. I pulled the stick back a little and off she went right now!!! I got on the radio and said' "WELL SHE'S AIRBORNE." I said to myself it's up with no runway left better just go fly. Now as you all know I'm only a 70 hour pilot with very little stick time. The only KR's I have flown are Jim Faughn and Marty Roberts and only a few minutes each. Back to the flight. I took it up to 4,000 feet and leveled off and just got used to the plane. Guys the KR is easy to fly. I did not have any trouble flying it. It flys great!! So I flew over to see what my 10 acres looked like from the air and on the way back it started to rain, I thought I better put it back on the ground. OH BOY! I've got to land NOW!!! My first try was a little to fast pulled the stick back to far to flare. The nose to the sky, full throttle to go around - second try still to fast same thing. Third try , O.K. now I backed the throttle down to 1200 rpm on the downwind, all most idle, and on final down to idle and just let the plane settle on it's own. The KR's elevator doesn't seem that sensitive in flight but it is in landing, you don't flare like you do in a Cherokee 140. The Kr needs only very little input. One thing I noticed about the KR is that when your in full stall in landing and full throttle to recover it's like a wasp on the attack, it just recovers and takes off right now! The engine ran beautifully. Take off at 2850 rpms, cruise at 3500 feet was 3100 rpms at full throttle, oil temp 180, oil pressure 60 at cruise, Cht 350 during climb, Cht at cruise 300, Egt 1200 at cruise. No flight instrument data yet, static system needs work the gauges could not be read. Mike Garbez N998MG Griswold, IA msgtlg@netins.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: Michael Taglieri Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:25:32 -0400 X-Message-Number: 26 >I beg to differ Mr Ron. The Jabaru is outrageously priced! It is much >more than most O-200s I have seen on the market. It doesn't sound like you're comparing a Jabiru with a NEW 0-200, and I don't see how any other comparison could be relevant. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Bobby Muse Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:51:15 -0500 X-Message-Number: 27 At 05:53 PM 08/02/1999 -0700, you wrote: >Aubrey Dunham wrote: >> >> Netters: >> I just got back from Oshkosh, and was very surprised at the (basically) >> non-existent turnout of KR-2's. >>> > >You guys need not be surprised at the low to no turnout of KRs at Osh. >It has been this way for a LONG time. KR people feel like they are >almost unwelcome there from what I gather. A few years back some KRs >had gathered to do a fly-by in honor of Ken and I think one of the KRs >crashed and burned. I think the guy had a heart attack or something but >did that happen before or during the crash? Who knows? Who cares? >Oshkosh is NOT the place to see KRs. It hasn't been for a while I doubt >it will be for quite some time. > >-- >Micheal Mims Been there . Done that. Don't want to do it again. ....No Fun. I fly to the KR Gathering, local Fly-Ins and Sun'N'Fun only. Oshkosk is toooo commerical. And when Aubrey and I can get together, I will show him what a KR and being a KR Builder is all about. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberley, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Bobby Muse Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 22:06:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 28 At 06:29 AM 08/03/1999 PDT, you wrote: >> I think because the KR was so cheap to build , that a lot of people built >>them that should have stayed on the ground . I have seen some KR's at >>Oshkosh >>that should never have gotten off the ground. I don't know how they ever >>got >>past the inspection from the FAA > >If you saw them at Oshkosh then they were obviously airworthy unless they >trucked them in. They might not have been pretty but they flew. > >RP > Bill is absolutely right, You had to be there. There was once a KR(about 1988) that was so badly maintained that the FAA was going to ground it. The pilot flew it away before the FAA showed up. I never heard of that KR again. It was BAD. It was held together with 'Duct Tape'. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberley, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A Low-Cost Aviation Gasoline that gets the lead out From: "Tobin Dunham" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:28:02 PDT X-Message-Number: 29 Dave, Interesting stuff. I guess if the FAA likes it and says it won't kill us all, that's good enough for me. But am I the only one that has a problem with this statement from the article? I quote: "The biodiesel component can be made from many different crops, including soy beans, sunflowers, canola and cotton seed. In addition, waste products such as fryer oils and cooking grease, as well as beef tallow and pork lard, can be used." PORK LARD?????? My KR will smell like bacon! Enough said. Toby Dunham Houston, TX homepage at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/7013 _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:08:55 EDT X-Message-Number: 30 In a message dated 8/2/1999 8:28:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << especially the concentration on warbirds, >> There is no possable way in the world that I can relate to an airplane that costs $1200.00 to fill up at the pump. I don't think that anyone that is a real grass roots flyer can relate to that. Right there is where the EAA has lost touch with a lot of it's members. What does something like that have in common with a KR, Dragonfly, Vision, RV, or anything else that a working stiff can afford?? Yet how many times per year do you see a high dollar war bird on the cover of the magazine? Kit planes does a much better job of covering the type of airplanes that most of the members of the EAA fly than Sport Avaition does. Larry Shull EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 20:30:34 -0700 X-Message-Number: 31 Michael Taglieri wrote: > > >I beg to differ Mr Ron. The Jabaru is outrageously priced! It is much > >more than most O-200s I have seen on the market. > > It doesn't sound like you're comparing a Jabiru with a NEW 0-200, and I > don't see how any other comparison could be relevant. > Of course not, I am talking reman. I don't think there is no such animal as a New O-200 is there? How much is a Jabaru? There are two models yes? I honestly think a reman O-200 is a good comparison to any want-a-be airplane engine. Something else to consider, using an O-200 (or C85 or O-235 or??) is the fact that you WILL get all your money back out of the plane if you ever sell it. I guess that's to say it wont be a $20,000 VW powered airplane that you can only sell for $8 to $10k. Enough about that, I think you all know how I feel about $15,000 un-certified want-a-be airplane engines! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:57:43 EDT X-Message-Number: 32 In a message dated 8/3/1999 3:14:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rwmoore@alltel.net writes: << He had the only KR that I have seen that had a yoke instead of a stick. Looked nice. >> Do you know who he was?? A guy named Bill De Freez in Ca built one with a throw over yoke here in California several years ago. Hope it wasn't Bill. Larry Shull Mail to:EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:28:56 -0700 X-Message-Number: 33 On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:25:32 -0400 Michael Taglieri writes: >>I beg to differ Mr Ron. The Jabaru is outrageously priced! It is much >>more than most O-200s I have seen on the market. > >It doesn't sound like you're comparing a Jabiru with a NEW 0-200, and >I don't see how any other comparison could be relevant. > >Mike Taglieri It is relivent because properly overhauled or low time O-200s are readily available and based on past history should run out to the expected TBO with few problems if properly operated and maintained. That TBO is a tad bit longer (roughly 50% longer) than the expected TBO of a new Jabiru and has a solid history behind it. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:33:03 -0700 X-Message-Number: 34 On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:08:55 EDT EveninBrz@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 8/2/1999 8:28:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >langford@hiwaay.net writes: > ><< especially the concentration on > warbirds, >> > > > There is no possable way in the world that I can relate to an airplane >that costs $1200.00 to fill up at the pump. I don't think that anyone that is >a real grass roots flyer can relate to that. > Right there is where the EAA has lost touch with a lot of it's members. >What does something like that have in common with a KR, Dragonfly, Vision, >RV, or anything else that a working stiff can afford?? > Yet how many times per year do you see a high dollar war bird on the >cover of the magazine? > Kit planes does a much better job of covering the type of airplanes that >most of the members of the EAA fly than Sport Avaition does. > Larry Shull > EveninBrz@aol.com The EAA serves both masters. The Warbirds and high $$ sales is what Oshkosh is all about. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The grass roots in in your local EAA chapter, local and regional fly-ins including the KR Gathering. At least that's the way it plays out here. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: N998MG Flight From: WHin77@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:27:05 EDT X-Message-Number: 35 Congrats, but please plan your next take off!!! Anyhow, way to go wish I was that far along ! Wendy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: timemach@telusplanet.net Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:50:52 -0600 X-Message-Number: 36 Jeff, No Shizen....my 0200A ran for 2200 hrs 'on condition' which is a Canadian allowance program for over TBO engines that still run within exceptable set limits. It was a 1974 and ran 100hrs a year for 22yrs. When I sold her the buyer/Machinist dialed the crank, when the needle didn't move he said' "They don't make'em any straighter than this" But it's still not a 6 cly Corvair ;-) Tim Cold Lake js> > It is relivent because properly overhauled or low time O-200s are readily available and based on past history should run out to the expected TBO with few problems if properly operated and maintained. That TBO is a tad bit longer (roughly 50% longer) than the expected TBO of a new Jabiru and has a solid history behind it. > > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213w construction and first flight at > http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: timemach@telusplanet.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 1st flight stories From: SClay10106@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:19:01 EDT X-Message-Number: 37 You guys keep me motivated with the first flight stories. I will be back on my kr-1 with the finish up fiberglass and sanding this weekend so next week a buddy and i will start on the canopy and top deck. It is still a puzzle to me how to take the plastic canopy and make a frame for it. I also have a question i am told there are a lot of Kr's flying out of Chino is this correct and when might i find them out there i wanna go get som pictures and pointers. I have set a goal to be flying before the end of the year hopefully a lot sooner. Thanks guys for everything Clay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Michael Taglieri Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:43:49 -0400 X-Message-Number: 38 ><< He had the only KR that I have seen that had a yoke instead of a stick. >Looked nice. >> > > Do you know who he was?? A guy named Bill De Freez in Ca built one with >a throw over yoke here in California several years ago. Hope it wasn't Bill. The KR project I almost bought in Staten Island, NY also had a throw-over yoke, beautifully machined by the deceased builder. I can't imagine why anyone would want one, however. Heavier than a stick and more likely to give trouble, so what's the point? Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: Michael Taglieri Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:54:56 -0400 X-Message-Number: 39 >Something else to consider, using an O-200 >(or C85 or O-235 or??) is the fact that you WILL get all your money >back out of the plane if you ever sell it. I guess that's to say it wont >be a $20,000 VW powered airplane that you can only sell for $8 to $10k. >Enough about that, I think you all know how I feel about $15,000 >un-certified want-a-be airplane engines! :o) I doubt any KR is going to appreciate much financially, but you may get your money back on the engine if you scrap your plane and you bought the engine from another homebuilt. As we once discussed before, unless all the work on a certified engine is done by an A&P with all the proper logbook entries, etc., it is no longer considered "certified" by the FAA and cannot be used in a certified plane. Therefore, if you bought a certified engine from a parted-out spamcan, it lost most of its market value the minute you took it apart, unless you're an A&P. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com