From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:13 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: August 08, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Sunday, August 08, 1999. 1. Engine Parts 2. Re: 2180 Less Reliable? 3. Re: [Fwd: Well, the fly-in at the Stepps was fun, but....] 4. Re: 2180 Less Reliable? 5. Postal Scales 6. RE: Eng. timing 7. Re: KR2 project weight 8. Re: was able to hold it as it went in a circle ... 9. Re: KR2 project weight 10. Re: lexan 11. Discouraged 12. Re: Discouraged 13. Mark Jones KR 14. Re: Mark Jones KR 15. Re: lexan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Engine Parts From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:07:47 EDT X-Message-Number: 1 Does anybody have any info about the VOLKSPOWER setup. I a'm using one of the accesory cases and would like know more about them. Gary Hinkle, Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 Less Reliable? From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:42:21 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 A friend of mine Rex Taylor, (HAPI) once told me that for long life the 1835 VW was about the best size. RWM N115RM ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 11:30 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 2180 Less Reliable? > Mark Jones wrote: > > > as to why. Anyway, could someone explain to me why the 2180 is less > > reliable. > > > Mark, > > The only reason a 2180 is less reliable is that it's stressed more than an > 1835, and stuff like the longer stroker leads to higher rod forces, and it > produces more power and heat and therefore stresses the head studs and > tweaks the case more than the less powerful 1835. It's the usual story of > compromise. You can't have it all. But I'd say the majority of VW > installations in KRs are 2180s, and you don't see a very high failure rate > either way. > > As for the Vair, it uses a bed mount, since it's facing flywheel forward. A > whole difference mount is required, and plans for one come with Wynne's > manual. I'm sure you could add the Diehl gear mount to the bottom, but > we're talking a little fabrication here, something some KR builders would > rather avoid. One big difference in the Vair and the VW is that nobody > (that I know of) builds a Vair conversion for sale, so if you want one > you've gotta build it yourself. But with Wynne's manual it's a snap. The > price for getting a VW or Vair in the air is probably about the same, except > you've gotta buy that expensive 4340 crank for the VW, and you can use the > stocker in the Vair. The Vair will put out more power though, more > reliably, but weighs more. > > There's probably another reason Vairs never caught on in aircraft. With > the VW you can just write a check and hang it on...and with a Vair you're > gonna have to get greasy. And these Vair engines are at least 20 years old. > You can buy all new VW stuff, if it makes you feel better. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Well, the fly-in at the Stepps was fun, but....] From: SkyHawk11@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:39:35 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 08/05/1999 1:06:43 AM Central Daylight Time, rossy@teleport.com writes: << Hi everyone! I wrote this little real story about a week ago, and am just now finally getting around to sending it to all my flying buds, and family members. The sores on my fingers from this unfortunate incident have scabbed over now, and are healing nicely... ...when we were ready to leave, I had a problem...I had let a kid sit in my plane while I ate breakfast, and he messed with the controls...no problem usually, but as the other guys were ready to leave with their engines running, I started up my Carrera like usual, but didn't check the throttle position B4 starting it from behind, and when it started, it was at FULL THROTTLE! Since I was behind the plane, I grabbed the wire that goes from the wing to the tail, and was able to hold it as it went in a circle, dragging me...There were alot of people there to help me, but they couldn't get in there to grab the plane, as it was circling too fast...a couple of guys tossed sweaters and other clothing at the prop, but the new Sportprop was too tough, and just shredded them. After about 30-40 circles in Jim's field, the wire began cutting my skin on my hand, and I couldn't hold on any longer. When the plane was pointed away from his house/people/planes, I finally let go, aiming it at some shrubs and a tree. I had been working it towards that tree on purpose, hoping it would stop it, but my fingers were bleeding at this point, and the pain became unbearable. When I finally let go, the Carrera headed towards that tree, just brushing it. Then it went into the open field, accelerating till it began to fly by itself. It climbed out, clearing the trees that lined the field, trimmed perfectly at first (and the fuel tanks were full at this point too. I had visions of it flying till it finally would run outta gas, probably over the ocean somewhere... Well, when it got to about 100-200 feet up, it began to turn right, circling and losing altitude till it hit a fir tree, stopping it. It fell down into the lower branches, still at full throttle, till a branch hit the prop, stopping the motor. My new Sportprop was ruined, now only about half the original diam. The left wing is totaled, but the fuselage and right wing are OK, and my motor seems ok too (I'm gonna be sure to check it out fully before I fly with it again). The tail has only one slightly bent tube also. Definately repairable, but it will take a while. I do hope to have it fixed in time for the Alvord fly-in. I thought for sure it would have been totaled, but got lucky. William, a Learjet Pilot/internet buddy of mine, had one question for me when he heard this story...."What have you learned from this?" Well, I need to take steps to make sure it never happens again. I've been thinking alot, the past couple of days, about how to prevent it. First of all, when the plane is put back together, I'll have the origional pull starter working (which allows me to stand next to the cockpit with the throttle and ignition switches within easy reach while starting it). I may install an electric starter, which will put me in the cockpit while starting the engine. If I do ever have to hand prop it, I'll either have someone standing by the cockpit, ready to kill the engine if necessary, or if no one is available, I'll take my Titanium Ti-downs (which I ALWAYS have with me in the plane) out of the plane and anchor the plane that way to prevent a flyaway plane (will take about 30 seconds to do that). Back when I did have the pull starter hooked up, I think there were a couple of times when the throttle wasn't closed all the way, and when it started, I was able to just reach down and close the throttle. Now, I realize that I need a CHECKLIST that's in the plane that I use EVERY time I fly it. I'm gonna make one up, laminate it, and mount it somewhere in the cockpit where it'll be easy to use EVERY TIME. OK, back to the Story of the pilotless plane.... This fly-in this past weekend is a highlight of our local flying club's year. It's an annual thing that's been happening every summer for the past 6 years. Jim's grass strip has been getting better and longer every year too. Jim and Crista (our hosts) really go all out to make it special. There's always been a feast on Saturday afternoon, which he invites all his neighbors to attend with us flyers. About a year ago, he got some new neighbors to the southwest of him, and the wife there HATES airplanes...thinks they're way too dangerous...Her husband is (er, was) a private pilot, before he married her, and had logged over 700 hours flying time, but hasn't flown since marrying her. Their property joins Jims, and Jim had been using a little bit of it to extend his landing strip, but when they moved in, they wouldn't let jim use it for "Liability" reasons. Jim had tried to talk to her a couple of times, but had to just leave as she was impossible to talk to. Jim has instructed us NOT TO FLY OVER/NEAR their house/property, which we've all been sure to avoid. Here's where the story gets bizzarre.... When my plane decided to take off without me, it first flew South, then turned west, before circling over/around...(you guessed it) the new neighbors house, landing in a tree on their property line, a couple hundred feet from their house! Of all the places it coulda gone, it picks the ONLY person in that whole valley that doesn't like airplanes to land next to. Her husband was the first person on the scene of the crash, and when he didn't see anyone in the cockpit, they all really freaked out, looking all around in the brush for the pilot. The first person from our group to arrive on the scene (about a minute or two after it happened) encountered an IRATE, Cussing, Crying, HYSTERICAL lady who he's sure if she'd had a gun, He'd be dead right now...*to her defense, having a plane land near your house without a pilot WOULD be odd, fer sure* Someone had called 911, as we could hear the sirens in the distance. Jim's daughter, Sandy, called 911 to let them know no one was in the plane, and no one was injured either, but their policy is to continue on to make sure. I signed a thing saying I didn't need medical assistance, and the two ambulances and big fire truck left. After my plane was on another neighbor's pickup (one with a lumber rack on it),and headed back to Jim's place (and it turns out this neighbor had seen me flying this Carrera many times by the Albany Supercross track where her boys race regularly, over a hundred miles away, amd said she really enjoys the airshow I give them), I went up to talk to and appologize to the planehating lady. I was very polite to her and her husband, letting her know it was MY fault, not Jim's. She was kinda calmed down by this point, saying she was just concerned about our welfare, and wish we wouldn't fly, as it's way too dangerous. I reminded her that people get killed every day in automobile accidents and pointed to her cars and pickup, saying I see that she continues to drive and ride in cars. She had to think about that for a second, and I saw a change in her attitude just then. After admitting I made a stoopid mistake in not checking the throttle B4 starting my plane, and humbly appologizing again, I left. Her husband said several times during the conversation, "It's not over yet", implying they're gonna do something about this.... The county Sherriff's Deputy that showed up was real nice and he knew the FAA doesn't investigate Ultralight incidents/accidents, and he took my name/address/phone number for his report. He gave Jim a phone number for an agency the county has for neighborhood problems, in case the neighbor goes totally crazy over this. As far as he was concerned, no laws were broken, so his work there was done, except for going back to the office and making up his report. He said he'd go talk to the planehating lady before leaving the area. I was really worried for Jim, afraid because of this, his neighbor would try to close down his neat private airstrip. Well, when I went back to his place last evening to retrieve my Carrera, he'd gotten a call from her (his plane-hating neighbor), and had his first good conversation with her. She appologized for all the yelling/cussing she'd done, and admitted everyone should have the right to do what they like to do. Jim said she said a couple of times to tell me she's sorry for the way she treated me that day, and was sorry for the damage that was done to "that nice man's plane". He's gonna send her a bottle of wine, and some cheese or something to help show he wants to be friends, not enemies. He thinks that next year, they will join us in our fly-in feast, and by the next year, her husband will be flying with us. We'll see.... A side note... people who saw my Carrera hit the tree, said that Rotax 503 just didn't want to stop, even after the prop got wasted. It continued to run, vibrating severely. It wasn't till the two carbs fell off from the outta balance sportprop, that the motor finally stopped. Keep on flying.... Randy Simpson Carrera mechanic >> Reading this story brought back memories of a friend and his Bowers Fly Baby. He was lucky , in that e caught hold of the wing tip and managed to hold it in a circle until several of us could correll it. Things learned in good pilot training that ultra lite pilots dont always get because no training required!!!! NEVER PROP AN AIRPLANE WITHOUT SOME ONE IN SEAT WITH BRAKES ON. ALWAYS MAKE SURE BRAKES HOLD BEFORE PROPING. NEVER!!!!! LEAVE AN AIRPLANE ICLING ON RAMP WITH NO ONE INSIDE ON BRAKES SEEMS TO BE A REAL PROBLEM WITH STUDENT PILOTS TODAY Has happened three time last two months on our airport, one was a turbine prop ag plane.. I know persomally of one Piper Comanche and a Cessna 150 that got away because the woud not start and Pilot tried to prop by himself. Piper pilot got a broken arm and several ribs plus a badly damaged airplane. cessna 150 pilot rec no injuries but ruined a mans hanger and the airplane. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR LIABILITY INSURANCE BEFORE PROPING A PLANE BY YOURSELF, YOU MAY NOT HAVE ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS PILOT WAS LUCKY IT LANDED WHERE IT DID. COULD HAVE BEEN A HOUSE OR INTERSTATE JUST AS EASILY Sorry to be so long but this scares me. SKYHAWK11@AOL.COM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 Less Reliable? From: E J Spencer Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 15:08:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 Hi mark, I have a 180 HP Turbo corvair that I want to put on a POLLYWAGEN. It had a 160 0-320 on it but, the guy sold it before I could get there (0-320) . I have been warned that I cannot cool the corvair engine. Will I have a problem? I like the KR airplane much better but, the POLLY is more Space inside. I am trying hard to make it to the gathering. Is this airport close to Pudach or futher south? What is your schedule? I would like to drive down to see you when it will be conv. Thanks for your time Joe Spencer Hillsboro Tn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Postal Scales From: David Mullins Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:21:08 -0400 X-Message-Number: 5 Mark Langford wrote: >Aircraft Spruce sells the Pelouze PE5 electronic scale (PN 12-01580) >for $78. I paid $63 for mine 5 years ago. Just went to Staples they have the same Pelouze PE5 scale on sale for $66.99. Picked one up. no more eyeballing epoxy mixes. Dave M Nashua, NH KR2S or Bust!! '99 Gathering Bound ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Eng. timing From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 23:38:09 +0200 X-Message-Number: 6 -----Original Message----- From: GARYKR2@cs.com [SMTP:GARYKR2@cs.com] Sent: 07 August 1999 04:02 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Eng. timing Don't forget that the distrubertor has an advance in it . So it has to be set at 0 degres. If it's not, you'll end up with 50 degres BTDC. The advance is 25 degrees, same as a mag. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com It actually idles better if you set it static at 8 and alow it to advance to 25 at between 1500 and 2000 rpm Rob South Africa infratig@global.co.za --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: infratig@global.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 project weight From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 23:36:25 +0200 X-Message-Number: 7 Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! Mike , after all this talk of weight I suggest more sanding and less filling Rob SA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: was able to hold it as it went in a circle ... From: Bud Martin Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 18:09:08 -0600 X-Message-Number: 8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FD12A5CB379FE6968090A3A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently, not an uncommon event. Back in the '70s, had a Jeannie's Teenie (N73BM) at Aiken SC--VW didn't start well. Standing in front of the left wing, with right hand in cockpit, propped with left hand. Hmm. Needs more throttle. Prop. Uh, oh, wow, it DID START. Airplane leaped forward, and I slid down the left wing, managed to grab left wing tip, and we danced around in a circle between hangars and parked airplanes (about half-a-million bucks worth of Cessnas). 18 year old son Tom mesmerized, amused at Dad's demonstration. Yelling at him to catch the other wing (on about the fifth 360), "No way, Dad!" "Trash can, trash can!" So he rolled a 55-gallon drum in front of the right wing, and my Million Dollar Liability policy was saved. Don't fool with Mother Nature. Listen, and learn. Not funny. Well, maybe. Fortunate, only had to patch right leading edge. Old, bold pilots get there from foolishness. --------------FD12A5CB379FE6968090A3A5 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="budm303.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bud Martin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="budm303.vcf" begin:vcard n:Martin;Bud tel;home:3034200940 tel;work:8006490875 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.command.org org:Command Company adr:;;7172 Swadley Ct;Arvada;CO;80004-1253;USA version:2.1 email;internet:budm303@earthlink.net note;quoted-printable:USN/USAF (Ret.) BA/MS/Ph.D.=0D=0AAFA, AOPA, AWA, EAA, CAW, ESP ...=0D=0Aa fine cauldron of alphabet soup!=0D=0AWriter/Editor/Publisher ...=0D=0ACommAS&MEL&S-I, AGI (KV4FR) fn:Bud Martin end:vcard --------------FD12A5CB379FE6968090A3A5-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 project weight From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 18:56:54 -0700 X-Message-Number: 9 Rob v/d Merwe wrote: > > Mike , after all this talk of weight I suggest more sanding and less filling > Rob SA Actually after a good weigh-in today I am pretty happy with the weight of the Pig. She is right on target for my 750 empty weight (1250 gross). The airframe today weighed 431 pounds. That's not too bad considering its size. I am happy at least. By the way, while I had her level I weighed it again with some weight in the seats. I was able to determine the exact location of the arm for the seats this way. I think it came out to 39 inches aft of datum (firewall). With my engine mount (I had custom made based on W&B calcs last year) I can put 400 pounds of people in the seats, 5 gallons in the header and still be one inch in side the aft limit. To do this with a 180 pound VW I would have to build a mount that put the engine center mass about 30 inches in front of the firewall. This tells me there are a lot of tail heavy KRs out there when you put two people in them. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: lexan From: "JEAN" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 21:53:02 -0500 X-Message-Number: 10 It will repell a 30-06 but don't get any fuel or even fuel fumes around it as it will haze over instantly. Jean N4DD -----Original Message----- From: w.g. kirkland To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 9:25 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: lexan >great stuff and an even better price. Don't try hitting it with a hammer >unless you keep ur head out of the way. The hammer will just rebound. You >may have a problem trying to break it in an emergency. The Coast Guard used >to have a problem with hunters shooting at their radar beacons just because >they were in isolated spots and it seemed like a good thing to do. To >protect them we put up lexan shields at an angle of 30 deg. to the >vertical. Worked real good. Would deflect a 30-06. Should make an excellent >windshield but think twice about the canopy idea. >W.G. KIRKLAND >kirkland@vianet.on.ca > >---------- >> From: WGLIDE78@aol.com >> To: KR-net users group >> Subject: [kr-net] Re: 2180 Less Reliable? >> Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 5:44 PM >> >> Marvin --if it was you that said Boeing surplus wasn't selling their >lexan >> etc--well I guess they changed their mind cuz I just got back from there >and >> all kinds of it was selling for $34.00 a 4x8 sheet. They have different > >> thickness's clear tinted orange yellow green blue you name it. I'm going >back >> monday and get some for shading some windows in the house. >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: N4DD@prodigy.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Discouraged From: R5t0ut1@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 23:32:55 EDT X-Message-Number: 11 I got out of bed this morning with the thought of making toothpicks out of my project. It all started yesterday evening... I had mounted the WAFs on my forward spars, getting ready to set the dihedral, when I noticed a crack in the center spar cap. The crack is horizontal, visible from the end. I'm not sure what caused it, maybe the holes are not quite lined up, or maybe the lack of humidity here in the desert. The bolts hadn't been tightened yet and they pushed in with what I thought was reasonable force. (I used the heal of my hand to push them in) I probably should have varnished the ends after I built the spar, but I was waiting for the final assembly of the spars. Now that I've had a few hours to calm down, I guess I'll be ordering some new spruce. I'm still pretty depressed about it. Randy Stout - KR2S Las Vegas NV mailto:r5t0ut1@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Discouraged From: Mark Jones Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 23:01:17 -0500 X-Message-Number: 12 > I got out of bed this morning with the thought of making toothpicks out of my > project. It all started yesterday evening.. > Randy Stout - KR2S Randy, This setback will probably be one of many. I have had the same feeling several times, especially when I accidentally broke the horizontal stabilizer spars off the fuselage. Just said a few choice words took a day or two and then jumped right back in there. Right now I am removing the ribs from my stub wings in order to install the new AS5046 airfoil. Also, am rebuilding the aileron bell cranks and brackets and will locate them on the forward side of the aft spar. Much better location and more space. Don't ever give up!!!!! You'll be glad you didn't. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Mark Jones KR From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 21:04:18 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 Mark I just checked out your page. You work is way to sanitary. You must throw your project away at this point and start over! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Mark Jones KR From: Mark Jones Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 23:31:08 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 Mike Mims wrote: > Mark I just checked out your page. You work is way to sanitary. You > must throw your project away at this point and start over! :o) Mike, Thanks for checking my site out. I like to keep it clean. Just open the garage door and use the leaf blower, does wonders!!!!!! Funny, I can't seem to keep the cars clean! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: lexan From: Willard561@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 00:32:12 EDT X-Message-Number: 15 In a message dated 8/8/99 8:58:32 PM Mountain Daylight Time, N4DD@prodigy.net writes: << It will repell a 30-06 but don't get any fuel or even fuel fumes around it as it will haze over instantly. Jean N4DD >> Jean: The lexan canopies on tha Apache's (AH64) take a lot of extra care because lexan is very easy to scratch even the "scratch resistant kind", as well as sensitive to hyrdocarbon fumes and other exposures. More than 1 lexan homebuilt windsheld has had to be replaced because of fuel exposure. Bill Higdon WIllard561@aol.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com