From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 12:17 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: August 09, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Monday, August 09, 1999. 1. Contact cement 2. Re: Contact cement 3. Superfil horse 4. SuperFil ratio- oops 5. Kitplanes 6. Superfil, Opps, Opps, Opps 7. 1250 pound gross/Mike Mims post 8. Re: Discouraged 9. Re: Superfil, Opps, Opps, Opps 10. Re: KR2 project weight 11. Re: Discouraged 12. I didn't fly there 13. Re: lexan 14. Re: Discouraged 15. Re: KR2 project weight 16. Re: 1250 pound gross/Mike Mims post 17. Re: 1250 pound gross/Mike Mims post 18. Re: Discouraged 19. Re: Discouraged 20. kr2-s for sale/or finish 21. Re: lexan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Contact cement From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:44:16 PDT X-Message-Number: 1 Howdy, netters I found out that contact cement (the yellow goop) and polystyrene foam board (pink or blue) don't like each other. The contact cement has the same effect on foam board that gasoline does: dissolves it away. Just thought I'd maybe save somebody else some grief. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/index.html _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Contact cement From: "John Weikel" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 06:46:57 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 I'll bet that's a mess to clean up. John W -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 6:44 AM Subject: [kr-net] Contact cement >Howdy, netters > >I found out that contact cement (the yellow goop) and polystyrene foam board >(pink or blue) don't like each other. The contact cement has the same >effect on foam board that gasoline does: dissolves it away. > >Just thought I'd maybe save somebody else some grief. > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/index.html > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Superfil horse From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:16:12 PDT X-Message-Number: 3 Mike wrote: >It seems that some of you guys are eye-balling the >mixture ratio! I have precisely weighed each and every >batch with a digital scale. At the risk of beating this (dead) horsie any more, I have to say that is one of the little things I found about the stuff- since I don't have scales, I mix it by volume at 2:1 as recommended. It is tedious, carefully packing each component into my mixing cup with the stirring stick to the pre-marked level and then mixing thoroughly (just like mixing epoxy; about 2 min. per batch), but I've had no problems at all... _except_ for the time I got in a hurry and eyeballed it. 'Nuff said? I used some more SuperFil over the weekend. I'm building the front deck of my M-19 where the windshield meets the deck, and there are lots of curves to follow. SuperFil to the rescue! Rough-shape with wedges and pieces of foam 5-minute epoxied in place, then build the curves with SuperFil and a wetted glove finger. Let harden, then sand to shape- voila! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/index.html _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: SuperFil ratio- oops From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:40:45 PDT X-Message-Number: 4 I goofed. I said mixing SuperFil by volume was a 2:1 ratio; it is actually 1.5:1 by volume. I guess I'm so used to seeing those 2 yellow-label and 1 white-label cans that I have it stuck in my head. But I do mix the proportions as recommended, 1.5:1 by volume. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/index.html _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Kitplanes From: "Edwin Blocher" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:33:14 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 Check out Jeff Bryson's KR2S on page 34 of this months Kitplanes. Lets see some more KR's. Out of 85 completions only 1 KR? Ed Blocher ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Superfil, Opps, Opps, Opps From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:37:04 EDT X-Message-Number: 6 Mabey I've found my problem. Checked the labeling on both part A and part B of my superfil and both list 2 parts A to 1 part B both in weight and volume. Is my stuff mislabeled????? Still sands like rubber. Agree that the postal scale is the most accruate but I have used an adjustable epoxy pump thru out and have never had a problem. Love it. After setting it, whether I just need a squirt or 8 oz, it has always worked perfectly. Can't beat the convenience. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 1250 pound gross/Mike Mims post From: "Jerry & Sandy Walker" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:13:23 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 Since joining the list, I had wondered how to best increase the gross. What changes are you guys making to increase your gross? How does one calculate the new gross? I've learned from the list that the cabin width can be increased. Now, if the gross can be increased feasibly--------------a real two place plane for larger folks! Since the spar sizes are increased with the new wing design, can one increase the wing length/area? OK, educate me! No, forget that----impossible! Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Discouraged From: Donald Reid Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:07:55 -0400 X-Message-Number: 8 R5t0ut1@aol.com wrote: > > I had mounted the WAFs on my > forward spars, getting ready to set the dihedral, when I noticed a crack in > the center spar cap. The crack is horizontal, visible from the end. This does not help you directly at this point, but one way to help avoid those types of cracks is to put the wing ribs on the ends of the spars. The spars crack from the humidity changes. If that surface is "cross banded" with another piece of wood, the cracking will be prevented. Make a set of cutouts in the wing rib plywood that lets the WAF's through, but leaves the outside end of the spar completely covered. Most people cut the ribs to fit the front, middle, and aft sections of the wing -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Superfil, Opps, Opps, Opps From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:09:43 EDT X-Message-Number: 9 In a message dated 8/9/99 11:40:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RFG842@aol.com writes: << Checked the labeling on both part A and part B of my superfil and both list 2 parts A to 1 part B both in weight and volume. Is my stuff mislabeled????? Still sands like rubber. >> The "stuff" you have probably came from some of Poly Fiber's first runs. The label changed to it's current mixing ratios very shortly after it first came out. Didn't you say that you bought it from AS&S? If so, they've found it laying behind something and sent it to you. I'd call Poly Fiber and tell them what happened, they will probably replace it for you. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 project weight From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:53:13 +0200 X-Message-Number: 10 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims [SMTP:mikemims@home.com] Sent: 09 August 1999 03:57 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR2 project weight Rob v/d Merwe wrote: > > Mike , after all this talk of weight I suggest more sanding and less filling > Rob SA Actually after a good weigh-in today I am pretty happy with the weight of the Pig. She is right on "target" for my 750 empty weight I thought that you were building a KR Rob Sorry Mike I couldn't resist ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Discouraged From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:20:14 +0200 X-Message-Number: 11 --Boundary_(ID_SLRCJlv6/OpNVFvxB2B44w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Donald Reid [SMTP:donreid@erols.com] Sent: 09 August 1999 06:08 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: Discouraged R5t0ut1@aol.com wrote: > > I had mounted the WAFs on my > forward spars, getting ready to set the dihedral, when I noticed a crack in > the center spar cap. The crack is horizontal, visible from the end. This does not help you directly at this point, but one way to help avoid those types of cracks is to put the wing ribs on the ends of the spars. The spars crack from the humidity changes. If that surface is "cross banded" with another piece of wood, the cracking will be prevented. Make a set of cutouts in the wing rib plywood that lets the WAF's through, but leaves the outside end of the spar completely covered. Most people cut the ribs to fit the front, middle, and aft sections of the wing -- ??????????????? Dont you think that all that that does is hide the problem so you cant see them cracks. Which way does the grain lie in the caps. this debate has always left me with questioins. If the grain is horizontal then there is a greater chance of the wood cracking as the bolts just push the different layers apart, and there is a greater chance of the chunk of wood just pulling out. However if the grain was vertical, then the bolts would actually hold the different layers of wood together. 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qrzKrNzKrvzKsBzLsjzLtFzLtnzLuJzLuhS8y7zcy778y8AczMI8zMRczHccEAA7 --Boundary_(ID_SLRCJlv6/OpNVFvxB2B44w)-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: I didn't fly there From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:20:08 +0200 X-Message-Number: 12 --Boundary_(ID_yQVWDsm5U0uImaJRmneMSA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Rob, Excuse my curiosity, but did you fly your KR to Oshkosh From South Afrika? Or is your KR based in the States? Would you kindly elaborate. Regards, Monet Hi Monet I wish both were true, but no neither are. We have a very similar EAA convention in South Africa every year, but only on a much smaller scale to Oshkosh. maybe you have heard of Margate. If you care to take a look on an atlas, it is a small town at about 31S 30 30E on the coast. Good place to spend a few days a year. Often we joke about flying 2 KR2's across to one of your KR fly ins, but when you get to the fuel capacity around 250l which you need, for the crossing of the Atlantic, apart to my adversity to spending more than 8 hours over water without seeing land behind a type 4 which leaks a little oil............well you get the idea. One day when I'm big! Here is a pic of my KR not an atlantic bird. First flew 18 august 1994 after 18 months of building. It now has 250 hrs. it is stock std with a 2000 type 4 VW motor turning a 53 inch dia 40 inch pitch prop giving a cruise at 3400 rpm at a speed of 154 mph.I put a 48 L fule tank in the std behind the instrument panel and a small 15 L wing tanl in each stub wing. Total 78 L usable, 800 nm range (usefull, but seldom req) At the moment I am building a KR1 with a 2600 motor (perhaps) Weight and balance will decide if I use this motor or not. It will be basically a KR100 planing on uing the new wing and doing the rest of the stuff which seems to be the way to go. 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+aYv9l33/PSD/vk/40HTb7/npb/98n/GizFzT8hraTfMCPOhXPdVP+NZ8vhCaZ90l1uPvRqF5snt vCzQHcDEx/2gTV7+y7voJIR9AaVmJOa7CnTLsjBeH8jSjTLsfxw/kf8AGizHefkH9mXn9+H/AL5N J/Zd3/z1i/I07Md6nkB0q5YYaSI/gahbQJWI3SJ9OaVmHNU8hG8OOwwZFAHoKB4cfj96Pwpco+ap 5E0WhNE4JkX645rWWIhQM01Gw1zPc//Z --Boundary_(ID_yQVWDsm5U0uImaJRmneMSA)-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: lexan From: WGLIDE78@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:28:05 EDT X-Message-Number: 13 They also had some that said poly-carbonet?? or something, would that be the same stuff?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Discouraged From: Donald Reid Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:35:00 -0400 X-Message-Number: 14 Rob v/d Merwe wrote: > > > I had mounted the WAFs on my > > forward spars, getting ready to set the dihedral, when I noticed a crack in > > the center spar cap. The crack is horizontal, visible from the end. > > This does not help you directly at this point, but one way to help avoid > those types of cracks is to put the wing ribs on the ends of the spars. > The spars crack from the humidity changes. If that surface is "cross > banded" with another piece of wood, the cracking will be prevented. > > Make a set of cutouts in the wing rib plywood that lets the WAF's > through, but leaves the outside end of the spar completely covered. > Most people cut the ribs to fit the front, middle, and aft sections of > the wing > > -- > ??????????????? Dont you think that all that that does is hide the problem > so you cant see them cracks. > Which way does the grain lie in the caps. this debate has always left me > with questioins. > If the grain is horizontal then there is a greater chance of the wood > cracking as the bolts just push the different layers apart, and there is a > greater chance of the chunk of wood just pulling out. However if the grain > was vertical, then the bolts would actually hold the different layers of > wood together. The suggestion of covering the end of the spar will prevent the crack from developing, so it does not hide a problem, since no problem exists. The grain orientation does not affect the strength of the bolted joint, so long as there is no localized cracking. The strength of the tye of joint that we are talking about comes from the bearing strength of the wood; that is, the load that the wood can take before it begins to crush. As long as the load orientation is parallel (in the same direction) to the fibers of the wood, the grain orientation makes no difference. If the load is applied perpendicular to the fibers of the wood, then it will tend to tear them apart and the joint will not be as strong. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 project weight From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:42:32 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 Rob v/d Merwe wrote: > > > I thought that you were building a KR > > Sorry Mike I couldn't resist Nope its a SP290, not a KR. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 1250 pound gross/Mike Mims post From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:58:46 -0700 X-Message-Number: 16 Jerry & Sandy Walker wrote: > > Since joining the list, I had wondered how to best increase the gross. What > changes are you guys making to increase your gross? How does one calculate > the new gross? Depends on how high you want to go with the gross. I think if you are going much more than 1200 pounds a complete airframe re-design would be necessary. Obviously at 1200 pounds the stock airframe has a smaller safety margin. You could always add a 1/4 inch in depth of the top spar cap if it would make you feel better. If I remember right the center spar has a working load limit of about 3.9 g's even at 1200 pounds. Adding a 1/4 to the top spar cap could raise your positive working limit to say 4.3. Basically the stock spar is a little overbuilt but that's your safety margin were talking about! Legally speaking, here in the US you set your gross weight before the FAA inspection. That's it. Disclaimer: All these numbers are from a program called sparana so before you take it and run you might want to have an engineer check them over. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 1250 pound gross/Mike Mims post From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:20:43 -0700 X-Message-Number: 17 Jerry & Sandy Walker wrote: > > > > Since joining the list, I had wondered how to best increase the gross. What > > changes are you guys making to increase your gross? How does one calculate > > the new gross? Also a larger engine would need to be considered. My 1250 pounds airplane will have a pound to HP ratio of 10 to 1. This is even better than a 980 pound KR2S with a 70 hp VW which is 14 to 1. Something else to think about, I left the wing area around (20' X 4') 80 sq. ft because I wanted a higher wing loading. I guess there are many things to consider but if you need a larger plane than the "Plans Built" KR then you got to do what you got to do. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Discouraged From: Tomstokes1@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:05:45 EDT X-Message-Number: 18 Mark How did you reattach the stab spar as I have done the same thing. I think it would tear up my boat to try to replace it, I was going to try to glue in a small piece at a long angle to replace it. Tom Stokes @ Pine Bluff, AR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Discouraged From: Mark Jones Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:52:10 -0500 X-Message-Number: 19 Tomstokes1@aol.com wrote: > Mark > How did you reattach the stab spar as I have done the same thing. Tom, The fix was quite simple for me. I was fortunate that I had a clean break where the bulkhead attaches to the spar. No damage was done to any of the vertical members or the longerons. The 3/32 ply web that the plans call out for on the rear bulkhead is rather weak. In order to repair the break, I simply made a plate from 1/4 birch ply and laminated it to the 3/32 ply web. I did this on both sides of the bulkhead. After this was done, I also laminated gussets in place where the horizontal spars meet the longerons. I now have a very strong stabilizer to fuselage arrangement. Hope this helps. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: kr2-s for sale/or finish From: "dave tillema" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:4:30 X-Message-Number: 20 I have a Kr2-s that I need someone to finish or buy (Houston area).Too much to do, so little time. Plane still needs right outer wing,engine/instruments & of course, finishing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: lexan From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:38:08 EDT X-Message-Number: 21 In a message dated 8/9/99 5:35:45 PM EST, WGLIDE78@aol.com writes: << They also had some that said poly-carbonet?? or something, would that be the same stuff?? >> Lexan is a General Electric trade mark for Polycarbonate. Haris --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com