From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 12:19 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: August 19, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Thursday, August 19, 1999. 1. Polyurethane foam/varnish joint 2. wood protection/laminated spars 3. Re: Tip of the day! 4. Re: MW-3 Rod End Bearing 5. Troy's Engine 6. Re: MW-3 Rod End Bearing 7. Re: kr 1 wing incidence 8. Gathering 9. CHT/EGT- What's the diff? (no archive) 10. Re: Gathering 11. Re: wood protection 12. Re: wood protection 13. Re: kr 1 wing incidence 14. Epoxy resin for KRs 15. Re: Gathering 16. Casting Lead 17. Re: MW-3 Rod End Bearing 18. Re: CHT/EGT- What's the diff? (no archive) 19. Re: wood protection 20. Gathering 21. Flybaby rear spar modification 22. Flybaby rear spar modification 23. Good reading, FARs and homebuilt AC 24. Composites 25. Re: Tip of the day! 26. Things to think about 27. Re: Things to think about 28. Re: wood protection/laminated spars 29. Aileron Bellcrank Location 30. RE: Things to think about 31. Re: Gathering 32. Re: kr 1 wing incidence 33. Re: Things to think about 34. Things To Think About, More. 35. Sacremento builders? 36. Re: Aileron Bellcrank Location 37. Re: Aileron Bellcrank Location 38. Re: Things To Think About ( long) 39. Twin Engine KR 40. Re: Flybaby rear spar modification 41. Re: Gathering 42. Re: Another systems question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Polyurethane foam/varnish joint From: "Stefan B." Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:24:57 +0100 X-Message-Number: 1 Do you think the expanded polyurethane foam (from a spray) will glue to a marine grade polyurethane varnish? Stefan, Paris, France.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: wood protection/laminated spars From: "Stefan B." Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:24:41 +0100 X-Message-Number: 2 I think I will use some very strong (and heavy) protective varnish inside the spars and something light (as a paint or alcohol-based wood varnish) on the rest of the wooden structure. I would like to explain you why I will do it - I have laminated my spar caps horizontally and I have the grain running vertically. According to ANC-19, Wood Aircraft Inspection and Fabrication, on the horizontally laminated spar caps the grain should run horizontally. It is NOT because of any different strength in the two directions but because, when the moisture enters inside the spars, the spar caps will expand more in the direction parallel to the growth rings than in the direction perpendicular to growth rings. What we care more is the vertical direction, so if your spar caps have the grain running horizontally, there wouldn't be any problem. As the grain on my spar caps runs vertically, I prefer to prevent the caps from expanding using some very strong coating material or varnish. What I fear, is to seal completely the pores of the wooden structure because I don't know how the wood will act if it does not breathe. Stefan Paris, France. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tip of the day! From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:16:21 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 8/18/99 1:59:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, flykr2s@execpc.com writes: << The edges feathered beautifully with no chipping or curling. I then applied a layer of glass and let it dry. Adhered perfectly, would not peel off. >> Sorry but I think I better step in here. I used that stuff on my layed up wings. When I switched to skins I peeled the glass off to get the spars, the "small" areas where I had this stuff came right off the foam as if it was never attached. This is only my experience with it but it scarred the $%#!@$ out of me when I thought what it might do if I had had a large area of the stuff under the glass. Be careful. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: MW-3 Rod End Bearing From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:20:12 EDT X-Message-Number: 4 In a message dated 8/18/99 10:22:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, flykr2s@execpc.com writes: << Hey I was curious if the MW-3 bearing listed on Dr Deans web site > > http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/hinges.htm > If I remember right, each hinge totaled appx $8. >> Folks, these hinges are the ticket. It's incredible how easy they are to align and are smooth beyond explaination............how's that for an endorsement:-) Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Troy's Engine From: "Richard Parker" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 05:32:20 PDT X-Message-Number: 5 If anyone is going to talk to Troy, it would be great if we could get pictures of his recent engine conversion and post them before he sells it. Rich Parker Peterborough NH (For you guys waiting for brakes from me, I havent forgotten you, I still havent unpacked the new house yet.) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: MW-3 Rod End Bearing From: David Mullins Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:50:27 -0400 X-Message-Number: 6 KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/18/99 10:22:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > flykr2s@execpc.com writes: > > << Hey I was curious if the MW-3 bearing listed on Dr Deans web site > > > > http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/hinges.htm > > > > If I remember right, each hinge totaled appx $8. >> > > Folks, these hinges are the ticket. It's incredible how easy they are to > align and are smooth beyond explaination............how's that for an > endorsement:-) > > Dana Overall > 1999 KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ One other thing to consider when using these hinges is the spar thickness. I ordered the -2S supplement plans, the spruce kit, and the hardware for the hinges at the same time. The plans show a 1/4" plywood doubler added to the HS and VS spars. This would make the AN3-11a bolt change to a AN3-13A and the AN42B-10A eyebolt to a AN42B-13A. I have Measured and looked at the hinges alot in the past few weeks because I am Drawing them up in a CAD program to include in my Builders log. I have informed Dr. Dean on this and he has updated his webpage. I would like to get an average on how much fiberglass cloth and how many gallons of epoxy to purchase to complete a KR-2S. Dave Mullins Nashua, NH KR2S or Bust!! '99 Gathering Bound Status: Center Spars Completed, waiting for spar webs mailto:dmullins@ici.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr 1 wing incidence From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:03:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 The incidence thing is another one of those "drag-the-dead-horse-out-of-the-barn-for-another-kick" thingies. Fred Keller, Anchorage, Alaska, built one of the finest KR-1s constructed - back in the 70's , I think. In an article about his plane, I think I read that he believed a one and one half degree incidence would be best for the KR-1. I still have the article around somewhere and could look it up if necessary to confirm. Contact me off line. Also, Don Reid may have scanned it for his website regarding KR past articles. Ed Janssen >I read in an article that 5 deg was a mistake (KR-1 with a British Flavor). >3.5 deg should be the right number. Of course the stub wing has no twist so >Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Gathering From: "Pete Larson" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:22:12 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 Hi guys lot of good stuff on here but dont have a KR but do have VP are we welcome to fly in to the gathering ? VP Pete ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: CHT/EGT- What's the diff? (no archive) From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 06:24:05 PDT X-Message-Number: 9 Wayne wrote: >Uhhhh,,,,.. > >I think you have confused CHT, (cylinder head temperature) with >EGT, (exhaust gas temperature). Well, yeah- that's what I meant. You know what I said. I said what I thought I meant, and still do. Or think I do. But hey- I would make a great politician! And it still makes a difference which cyl. you put the probe on or in, so do as I say, not as I do! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/index.html _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gathering From: "Pete Larson" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:24:25 -0500 X-Message-Number: 10 ---------- > From: Pete Larson > To: kr-net@telelists.com > Subject: Gathering > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 8:22 PM > > Hi guys > lot of good stuff on here but dont have a KR but do have VP > are we welcome to fly in to the gathering ? > VP Pete ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wood protection From: "Edwin Blocher" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:43:57 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 Stephan, If you will contact me off net I will send you some information from EAA Aircraft Building Techniques - Wood book. I've seen enough on the net about wood preservatives. Ed Blocher ed_blocher@msn.com -----Original Message----- From: Stefan B. To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 2:54 AM Subject: [kr-net] wood protection >As the wood is quite hygroscopic, I would like to protect it against the >moisture. The paint do not protect the wood, it just slows the moisture >penetration. Do you have any ideas? Do you know a coat material that is enough >hydrofuge to leave the wooden pores (of the Sitka Spruce) permeable to the air >but impermeable to water? > >Stefan. >Paris, France > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ed_blocher@email.msn.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wood protection From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:17:35 EDT X-Message-Number: 12 Absolutely. However the purpose of ventilation is for the inside where condensation and trapped water hides. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr 1 wing incidence From: "Richard Parker" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:25:57 PDT X-Message-Number: 13 >The incidence thing is another one of those >"drag-the-dead-horse-out-of-the-barn-for-another-kick" thingies. Fred >Keller, Anchorage, Alaska, built one of the finest KR-1s constructed - back >in the 70's , I think. In an article about his plane, I think I read that >he believed a one and one half degree incidence would be best for the KR-1. >I still have the article around somewhere and could look it up if necessary >to confirm. Contact me off line. I have the above mentioned article on my web site. http://top.monad/net/~theparkers/kr.htm Rich Parker _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Epoxy resin for KRs From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:34:49 EDT X-Message-Number: 14 David Whatever you do, buy your renin & hardner kits in gallon lots, as needed. Nothing worse than 75 bucks worth of outdated resin that has thickened and unsafe to use. People don't build fast enough to use all needed within the shelf life. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gathering From: "Mark Langford" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:42:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 15 > lot of good stuff on here but dont have a KR but do have VP > are we welcome to fly in to the gathering ? > VP Pete Of course. You can come in a taxi if that's what it takes. But a VP makes it that much better... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Casting Lead From: Michael Taglieri Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:47:57 -0400 X-Message-Number: 16 There's been discussion recently about the best way to cast the aileron counterweights. I haven't needed to do this, but two days ago I melted down all the lead I had in the house to cast a counterweight for the flywheel of my treadle-powered lathe. It was more complicated than a KR counterweight, because the casting needed a depression in one side to go around one of the spokes on the flywheel, but I was still able to do it using the cardboard-mold method described in the manual. I used the cardboard from a box of Post Raisin Bran to form my half-moon-shaped mold and masking tape to hold it together, with a tube of cardboard taped to one of the inside walls to form the depression for the spoke. To be on the safe side, I added a few ties of safety wire along with the tape, and I also added fillets of masking tape inside the mold to give me nice rounded edges. Finally, I added cardboard strips across the top of the mold to maintain its shape, since the weight of the lead might otherwise bulge the mold out and the shape of the final form was important because it was not being trimmed to its final size. To figure out how much lead I had, I put water in a graduated container, then added the lead to determine how much water it would displace. I then measured out the same volume of dry rice and tried it in the mold to ensure that the lead would fill it to the proper level. I melted the lead in an empty tin can, and the mold was curved on the bottom, so I supported it in a bowl that I put in my [thoroughly dry] kitchen sink. When I melted the lead, the coating on the inside of the can gave off some smoke, and when I poured the lead, the mold also smoked, but it held together, and within a few minutes I could splash water on it for cooling, and ultimately turned on the faucet to cool it completely and loosen the cardboard. Of course I was using goggles and protective clothing, and I also ventilated the kitchen from the fumes, which seemed primarily to be from the cardboard, tape, and the can rather than from the lead. The surface where the lead touched the cardboard was excellent. The fillets of tape were less successful, burning themselves into the surface of the lead, so I had to scrape them off afterwards with a dull knife. It would have been easier to get the rounded edges with a knife when the molding was done. Also, the wire reinforcements did not seem necessary, and they scarred-up the surface of the final product. The next time I do this (for a KR, I hope), I'll follow the method in the manual exactly, without the fillets of tape inside or the wire reinforcements, but I will still add reinforcements across the open top of the mold or supports on the outside to prevent bulging from the weight of the lead. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: MW-3 Rod End Bearing From: "Henning Mortensen" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:21:51 PDT X-Message-Number: 17 I checked that too, and was a bit concerned. Then checked my Wicks catalog where I found the bearing was between $4-5. Sorry can't remember the exact amount right now. All in all I figured a hinge would cost less than $10. Henning Mortensen KR2 - Regina Sk, Canada >From: Mike Mims >What is the total cost of each hinge? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: CHT/EGT- What's the diff? (no archive) From: Kr2dream@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:22:32 EDT X-Message-Number: 18 Oscar: The CHT probe is most effectively used on the hottest cylinder. Some people choose to use four probes with a switch to determine the hottest as well as the balance of cooling. The hottest depends on the air flow available, and is most often (I believe) the right rear. If you use a switch be sure to select one specified for "dry circuit" operation and switch BOTH sender leads. This will avoid false readings from multiple ground connections. Bob Lasecki Chicago ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wood protection From: Tom Raby GRE/ER PwrSysOp Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:29:33 -0500 X-Message-Number: 19 I built a small boat. It had mahogony frames with planking and decking of fir plywood. I glassed the planking exterior and to save the hassle of further fiber glass work just painted the deck. It takes a lot of paint to fill the wood pores. Anyone who has used fir plywood knows how it is prone to checking. After a year the deck looked terrible. After a couple years I was finding rot. I think I'll glass the exterior of our KR-2S with the lightest cloth I can find, sqeege it carefully, fill it sparingly and hope for an attractive, serviceable finish and just admire show quality finish on the award winning planes. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims [mailto:mikemims@home.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 1:09 AM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: wood protection HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 99-08-18 21:43:46 EDT, you write: > > << There are KRs here in the US that have only paint on the outside and > have been around for over 20 years. >> > > I read about a Flybaby that had a spar failure because of dry rot. > I am talking about the outside of the airplane. Obviously all the wood needs to be sealed from the weather. But on some KRs the only thing on the plywood skin is paint, paint and more paint. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: traby@grenergy.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Gathering From: "Edwin Blocher" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:13:03 -0500 X-Message-Number: 20 I have been in touch with Paul Poberezny about SAA. I will be taking photos and getting information for an article in the next issue of TO FLY which is as of now only scheduled to be published once a year. I'll be looking for a good flight report (Troy?). I'll also have applications for The Sport Aviation Association (SAA) for those who didn't download load them. I urge you all to read Paul's editorial at www.sportaviation.org Ed Blocher ed_blocher@msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Flybaby rear spar modification From: David Moore Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:42:13 -0700 X-Message-Number: 21 Haris, This a true story, but in all fairness this A/C had sit outside in Florida for a number of years. The A/C had been neglected by the owner. The airplane had just been delivered to a new owner, when he went to fly it home the rear spar failed, the wing folded and the pilot was killed. The rear spar separated where the WAC attach. Now there is a fix of a .0125 4130 metal strap carry through on the rear spar. Flybaby's in Canada and in the US have been flying around for years with no apparent weakening or deterioration. But the builders have sealed the wood and protect them from moisture. Wood airplanes really need a hanger. There is an old saying: "Learn from the mistakes of others, you can't live long enough to make them all yourself". If anyone is interested the carry through spar modification for the flybaby it is at: http://www.halcoyn.com/wanttaja/flybaby.html/ It's about half way down the page under The Spar carry-through modification. Dave Moore At 02:07 AM 8/19/99 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 99-08-18 21:43:46 EDT, you write: > ><< There are KRs here in the US that have only paint on the outside and > have been around for over 20 years. >> > >I read about a Flybaby that had a spar failure because of dry rot. > >Haris > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dgmoore1@gte.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > David G. Moore mailto:dgmoore1@gte.net Henderson, Nevada ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Flybaby rear spar modification From: David Moore Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:50:25 -0700 X-Message-Number: 22 Sorry about the misspelling try: http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/flybaby.html/ It's about half way down the page under The Spar carry-through modification. Dave Moore David G. Moore mailto:dgmoore1@gte.net Henderson, Nevada ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Good reading, FARs and homebuilt AC From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:30:02 -0700 X-Message-Number: 23 Here is some good reading that has helped me clarify what I have been hearing recently at my airport. http://www.exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/rules.html -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Composites From: "Richard Parker" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:37:42 PDT X-Message-Number: 24 I scanned and have posted the subscription information card for a free trade magazine specializing in composites. "Composites Technology" They have an annual "yellow Pages" that provides numerous vendors in the frp industry. (Fiber Reinforced Polymers) You can find everything from carbon fiber and other exotic fabrics to resins, etc. Print out the card, fill it out with your name and address and fax it to 651-686-4883. just check off any of the other questions randomly. here is the address http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/comp2.bmp Its really a good resource. (And no I'm not affiliated with them in any way) Rich Parker _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tip of the day! From: "Mark S. Jones" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:47:13 X-Message-Number: 25 Dana, I guess I had better elaborate more on using this spackling as filler. My intentions on use are on non structural components and no flight surfaces. This leaves areas like fairings, the bottom side of the turtle decks, rounding out corners (do not use in place of flox) where one might be glassing, etc. I must agree with you on using this product for wing skins. This seperation you speak of could very well happen over a period of time, my experiment was only three days old. If the product you used was the same as what I am trying, then your experiment is older than mine and we must follow your advice. DO NOT USE ON WING SKINS! Peeled skin would hurt, especially if it happened in flight!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Things to think about From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:49:21 -0700 X-Message-Number: 26 This post is mostly for builders in the US. After checking with the EAA, FAA, and a few other people I have come to a few conclusions that most of us probably don't think about when we are building. We have a couple of builders at our airport who are in a curious position right now as far as the regs go. One is on this list but I will not use his name! :o) Seems that the regs state that if you make a major modification to your homebuilt it must be re-inspected. You do have the option of sending a letter to the FAA asking them to approve of you changes without an inspection but from what I gather that doesn't happen that often. One builder has changed the engine size and switched from a retractable gear to a fixed gear. This in the opinion of the FAA is a MAJOR change. So guess what he gets to do? The other builder built a 2300cc VW to replace his 1835. This again in the opinion of the FAA is a major change. You don't have to have the repairman certificate or an A&P to make a major change but if you make one the FAA wants a re-inspection regardless. So seeing what a pain in the ass this is I decided that the "I will try this and if its not good enough I will change it" attitude just isn't gonna work! Lets say your building a KR2 and you have a 1835 installed with the thoughts of upgrading to a 2180 after you test fly. That's a major change and you will need to have your bird re-inspected. Lets say you are building a KR2S and start out with a tailwheel version with the thought of going to tri-gear if you done like it. Well you just made another major change! Lets say you ripped the RAF48 wings off your trusty ole KR2 and put on the the AS series of airfoil. Guess what? Re-inspection time. Another thing I did not realize is that you only have 12 months to complete your test flying. If you do not complete it within the 12 months guess what? You got it, re-inspection time! So with all this in mind I decided that the one thing that was iffy on my bird will be changed out before I get it signed off. I plan to install a new main gear because I am just not 100% sure the axle location of my gear will work. So another delay but I am not in a race. Some of you will probably argue these facts but this is what I have heard from the EAA as well as the FAA. Your results may vary. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Things to think about From: "Mark Langford" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:19:01 -0500 X-Message-Number: 27 Mike wrote: > Seems that the regs state that if you make a major modification to your > homebuilt it must be re-inspected. You do have the option of sending a > letter to the FAA asking them to approve of you changes without an > inspection but from what I gather that doesn't happen that often. FWIW, Troy was allowed to "self-certify" his. He tells what he did, signs it, obtains a fly-off period (considerably less than 40 days, as I recall) and never sees an inspection. It might matter that he's an A&P, however... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wood protection/laminated spars From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 02:26:19 -0700 X-Message-Number: 28 -------------------- If you are getting enough moisture in your spar caps to make them expand then they will rot. If you seal the wood spar caps with epoxy or a good varnish then the moisture will not enter. (the spars may still expand from the temperature though) You must make sure that the wood's moisture content is less then 12%. 7 % is better. This means that the wood must be kiln dried not just air dried. If the wood has more then 12% moisture content it will rot if you seal it up. Less then 12% moisture and the wood can not rot. Marvin MCCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field ----------------- Stefan B. wrote: > horizontally laminated spar caps the grain should run horizontally. It is > NOT because of any different strength in the two directions but because, when > the moisture enters inside the spars, the spar caps will expand more in the > direction parallel to the growth rings than in the direction perpendicular to > growth rings. What I fear, is > to seal completely the pores of the wooden structure because I don't know how > the wood will act if it does not breathe. > > Stefan > Paris, France. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Aileron Bellcrank Location From: "Mark S. Jones" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:26:14 X-Message-Number: 29 Hey Guys, Made another alteration to my 2S. After mounting the aileron bellcranks per Rand's plans and attaching the airfoil ribs to the aft spar, I found there would be little to no clearance on the top and bottom skins. To alleviate this problem, I simply moved the aileron bellcranks to the forward side of the aft spar. These bellcranks are to Rand's plans. Very simple fix. This will give you plenty of clearance, especially if you are building the new AS504X airfoil. Simply use a longer pushrod to the aileron and route the pushrod through the space between the wing joint provided by the wing attach fittings. Only thing that might be of concern is the cross cable thru the fuselage because it will now be under your butt! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Things to think about From: Tom Raby GRE/ER PwrSysOp Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:30:25 -0500 X-Message-Number: 30 Seems I read somewhere that the determination of what constitutes major modifications is up to the local FAA office responsible for your area. Someone had called and asked for reinspection after engine change and FAA said wasn't a major mod. Someone from a different area had a relatively minor change that FAA did want to reinspect. I guess its best to check with your local FAA office before flying if you have made any significant changes at all. I would think the reasonable thing to do would be to document the change with a before and after drawing and submit it your local FAA inspector. Ask him if he'll sign off on it without an inspection. If he has a drawing he'll know what your asking him to approve. Maybe two copies would be worth the trouble. He can keeep one and sign off on the copy he returns. Maybe send a big stamped return envelope and make it as easy as you can for him to agree with your changes. There was also a recent exchange in Sport Aviation about an insurer who refused a claim after a builder modified a fuel system, returned it to its previous design spec., and then had an incident related to fuel starvation. He never notified FAA and insurer argued successfuly that the builder violated his certificate by flying after making uninspected modifications. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims [mailto:mikemims@home.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 3:49 PM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Things to think about This post is mostly for builders in the US. After checking with the EAA, FAA, and a few other people I have come to a few conclusions that most of us probably don't think about when we are building. We have a couple of builders at our airport who are in a curious position right now as far as the regs go. One is on this list but I will not use his name! :o) Seems that the regs state that if you make a major modification to your homebuilt it must be re-inspected. You do have the option of sending a letter to the FAA asking them to approve of you changes without an inspection but from what I gather that doesn't happen that often. One builder has changed the engine size and switched from a retractable gear to a fixed gear. This in the opinion of the FAA is a MAJOR change. So guess what he gets to do? The other builder built a 2300cc VW to replace his 1835. This again in the opinion of the FAA is a major change. You don't have to have the repairman certificate or an A&P to make a major change but if you make one the FAA wants a re-inspection regardless. So seeing what a pain in the ass this is I decided that the "I will try this and if its not good enough I will change it" attitude just isn't gonna work! Lets say your building a KR2 and you have a 1835 installed with the thoughts of upgrading to a 2180 after you test fly. That's a major change and you will need to have your bird re-inspected. Lets say you are building a KR2S and start out with a tailwheel version with the thought of going to tri-gear if you done like it. Well you just made another major change! Lets say you ripped the RAF48 wings off your trusty ole KR2 and put on the the AS series of airfoil. Guess what? Re-inspection time. Another thing I did not realize is that you only have 12 months to complete your test flying. If you do not complete it within the 12 months guess what? You got it, re-inspection time! So with all this in mind I decided that the one thing that was iffy on my bird will be changed out before I get it signed off. I plan to install a new main gear because I am just not 100% sure the axle location of my gear will work. So another delay but I am not in a race. Some of you will probably argue these facts but this is what I have heard from the EAA as well as the FAA. Your results may vary. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: traby@grenergy.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gathering From: tom Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:45:00 -0400 X-Message-Number: 31 Pete Larson wrote: > > Hi guys > lot of good stuff on here but dont have a KR but do have VP > are we welcome to fly in to the gathering ? > VP Pete > > VP Pete, I would love to see a VP at the gathering. Is it 1 or 2 place? -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr 1 wing incidence From: "BillStarrs" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:27:57 -0700 X-Message-Number: 32 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BEEB31.581BE2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The angle of incidence of 3 1/2 starts at the root and decreases to 0 at = the tip. Bill Starrs -----Original Message----- From: Benny Skyn To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 10:15 PM Subject: [kr-net] kr 1 wing incidence =20 =20 I am ready to attach the contour guides to the inboard stubs = ...almost. I have an old set of plans...2-10-76 revised!!! Back then it = appears the plans called for chord line five degrees off top longeron. I = have a wing template 1-1-81 that calls for 3 1/2 degrees off top = longeron. Which is correct? Maybe a stupid ? but is there an icidental = twist on the inboard wing stubs, before the outer wing? I'm assuming the = twist starts on the outside rib to the wingtip...not the inside rib.??? Thanks to anyone who can help, Benny skyn@vic.com ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BEEB31.581BE2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The angle of incidence of 3 1/2 starts at the = root and=20 decreases to 0 at the tip. Bill Starrs
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Benny Skyn <skyn@vic.com>
To: = KR-net users=20 group <kr-net@telelists.com>
D= ate:=20 Wednesday, August 18, 1999 10:15 PM
Subject: [kr-net] = kr 1=20 wing incidence

I am ready to attach the contour = guides to=20 the inboard stubs ...almost. I have an old set of plans...2-10-76 = revised!!!=20 Back then it appears the plans called for chord line five degrees = off top=20 longeron. I have a wing template 1-1-81 that calls for 3 1/2 degrees = off top=20 longeron. Which is correct? Maybe a stupid ? but is there an = icidental twist=20 on the inboard wing stubs, before the outer wing? I'm assuming the = twist=20 starts on the outside rib to the wingtip...not the inside=20 rib.???
Thanks to anyone who can = help,
Benny
skyn@vic.com
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BEEB31.581BE2E0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Things to think about From: "BillStarrs" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:38:27 -0700 X-Message-Number: 33 I had my KR 1 certified this Feb. The inspector said that I only had to contact the FAA if the modification effected the flying characterics. Bill Starrs -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 2:38 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Things to think about > >Mike wrote: > >> Seems that the regs state that if you make a major modification to your >> homebuilt it must be re-inspected. You do have the option of sending a >> letter to the FAA asking them to approve of you changes without an >> inspection but from what I gather that doesn't happen that often. > >FWIW, Troy was allowed to "self-certify" his. He tells what he did, signs >it, obtains a fly-off period (considerably less than 40 days, as I recall) >and never sees an inspection. It might matter that he's an A&P, however... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: bstarrs@cybertrails.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Things To Think About, More. From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:44:47 EDT X-Message-Number: 34 I did an engine upgrade(1835 to 2180), new electrical, added wing tanks, differant prop, and made the forward deck removable. The only part the FAA was interested in was the engine and prop. I was given 10 hrs. fly off time and IFR ok. It all depends on the inspector. Mine is a home builder also and knows what to look for. There is a lot more items the FED. considers a major change, and varies with each office. It does help being an A&P. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Sacremento builders? From: "Mark Langford" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:33:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 35 Any builders near Sacremento or Travis Air Force base? Monday I'm flying to Travis for 2 weeks to kick off our aircraft loader testing program (3 months of it!) and if I can find time and a builder I'd love to come "inspect". My main pastime on this trip will be to go through my web page (1150 pictures, and 42 Megabytes!) and rewrite and clarify some of the things that have changed in the 5 years that I've been maintaining it. Respond privately, if you would to the address below... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Aileron Bellcrank Location From: "Richard Parker" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:13:17 PDT X-Message-Number: 36 You need to slow down, You are making WAY too much progress on your KR. I thought you had young kids that were supposed to keep you from building? :-) Rich Parker (Went and played with gyrocopters with Holley 4 barrel throated Subaru's last night) >From: "Mark S. Jones" >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Aileron Bellcrank Location >Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:26:14 > >Hey Guys, >Made another alteration to my 2S. After mounting the aileron bellcranks per >Rand's plans and attaching the airfoil ribs to the aft spar, I found there >would be little to no clearance on the top and bottom skins. To alleviate >this problem, I simply moved the aileron bellcranks to the forward side of >the aft spar. These bellcranks are to Rand's plans. Very simple fix. This >will give you plenty of clearance, especially if you are building the new >AS504X airfoil. Simply use a longer pushrod to the aileron and route the >pushrod through the space between the wing joint provided by the wing >attach fittings. Only thing that might be of concern is the cross cable >thru the fuselage because it will now be under your butt! > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Waukesha, WI >flykr2s@execpc.com >http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Aileron Bellcrank Location From: Mark Jones Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:10:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 37 Richard Parker wrote: > You need to slow down, You are making WAY too much progress on your KR. I > thought you had young kids that were supposed to keep you from building? :-) Rich, Yep, two boys, 4 months and 22 months. The only way I can get my sanity back is to slip out to the garage (usually after they are asleep) and do a little work to the plane. Sometimes late nights creep up on me without me realizing I can only get 5-6 hours sleep before I have to get up to go to work. Oh, the life of a KR Builder!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Things To Think About ( long) From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:05:10 -0700 X-Message-Number: 38 I realize that your FSDO or GADO or what ever they are called will have different opinions regarding major and minor changes and this is probably why. It says that if you have a major change you may be required to have your airplane re-inspected (see below). The definition of major change is vaguely presented in the FAR 21.93. It states that a minor change is "one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product." The kicker is the last sentence, it says "All other changes are "major changes" (see below). So pretty much anything the FAA wants to call a major change is in fact a major change. Examples: Installing a larger engine had a appreciable change to the weight and balance (major change) Installing a larger engine that has no effect on the weight and balance (fits the minor change criteria doesn't it?) but changes the operational characteristics (more hp, better climb, higher speed, better performance) (so its a major change) Installing a new airfoil has a appreciable effect on the operational characteristics (major change) Installing a prop that has 2 inches less pitch gives you 300 more RPM, in my opinion that's fits the criteria for a minor change, in other words I wouldn't bother telling anyone. Rules (Yada Yada Yada) Secondly, any major changes that are made to the airplane as defined by FAR 21.93 require inspection by the FAA prior to further flight. Sec. 21.93 Classification of changes in type design. (Major Change) (a) In addition to changes in type design specified in paragraph (b) of this section, changes in type design are classified as minor and major. A "minor change" is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are "major changes" -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Twin Engine KR From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 22:11:07 EDT X-Message-Number: 39 Somebody brought up the topic of a twin KR the other day. Give me a yell, I'm already working in that direction. Works out like this: 3ft more wing span, 2ft more aft fuselage, 10% more rudder, two 1835s. Started collecting materials, will be starting to build after I see what Y2K brings. Gary Hinkle Middletown,Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Flybaby rear spar modification From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 22:53:50 EDT X-Message-Number: 40 Hi, I did not mean to slam the design. I just wanted to make a point that we need to follow acceptable building practices when we build airplanes. Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gathering From: "Pete Larson" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:07:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 41 HI TOM I have a VP1 with a 2074 vw turning a Sterba 57x34 prop at 3550 cruse at 85 at 3100 I will be there VP Pete ---------- > From: tom > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Gathering > Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 5:45 PM > > Pete Larson wrote: > > > > Hi guys > > lot of good stuff on here but dont have a KR but do have VP > > are we welcome to fly in to the gathering ? > > VP Pete > > > > > > VP Pete, > > I would love to see a VP at the gathering. Is it 1 or 2 place? > > > -- > Tom Crawford > Gainesville, FL > N262TC > Mailto:toys@atlantic.net > http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: vppete@bellsouth.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Another systems question From: Ross Youngblood Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 22:03:06 -0700 X-Message-Number: 42 Mike, I have a facet pump and I'm not sure if they will allow flow if off. I remember seeing a bypass circuit with one way check valves in one installation. This way fuel would flow with the pump off. -- Ross Mike Mims wrote: > > Those of you who are familiar with the facet (spelling?) type fuel > pumps. Do you know if they will flow fuel when turned off? Say if > someone wanted to add one to a gravity feed system for extra pressure > during critical phases of flight, would they allow the fuel to gravity > feed when they are turned off? > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Filling and Sanding again! > http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ > http://members.home.com/mikemims/ > Aliso Viejo CA > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com