From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: December 12, 1999 Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 12:15 AM KR-net users group Digest for Sunday, December 12, 1999. 1. Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light 2. RE: Gas sight guage 3. Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light 4. Re: Gas sight guage 5. Could you give me a few hints? 6. Re: Wing spar 7. Re: Could you give me a few hints? 8. KR I B Motorglider 9. Re: KR I B Motorglider 10. Re: Total cost of KR2S? 11. Re: KR I B Motorglider 12. Re: Wing spar 13. Re: Total cost of KR2S? 14. Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light 15. Re: KR I B Motorglider 16. Re: Total cost of KR2S? 17. Re: Total cost of KR2S? 18. Re: Could you give me a few hints? 19. Panel??? 20. Re: Wing spar 21. Re: Wing spar 22. need info 23. KR2 for sale!! 24. Re: KR2 for sale!! 25. Re: Wing spar 26. Re: Panel??? 27. Re: Flox 28. Re: Wing spar 29. Re: Total cost of KR2S? 30. Re: Wing spar 31. Progress over the weekend 32. Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light 33. Re: KR I B Motorglider 34. Re: Wing spar 35. Re: KR2 for sale!! 36. Wing spar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light From: * Flesner * Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:13:01 X-Message-Number: 1 At 08:27 PM 12~11~99 -0600, you wrote: >Actually, I think Heat should be first in the Subject line of this email, >but my point is to apply a bit of Physics to illuminate the subject of some >Heat, and maybe spread some Enlightenment and cool tempers. >It is really best to look at the true numbers, which is an item on my New >Year's wish list. >Now for the review, sparked by a few comments, but mostly by Ken Jordon, who >said if >F = M x A (F - force, M - mass, A - acceleration) what does Weight have to do with Speed? ============================================================================== Walter, It looks like you have a good understanding of the subject. For us "high school physics" challenged builders, could you net this out? For every extra 100 pounds of aircraft weight, what is the cost in speed at cruise? What additional horse power would it take to regain the lost speed? (please don't get lost in the more weight, more horsepower, more weight, more horsepower loop.) Please keep it simple for this Tripacer flying KR builder. Thanks, Larry Flesner TriPacer 2917P - unofficial photo ship for the "Gathering". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Gas sight guage From: Jim Faughn Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:34:18 -0600 X-Message-Number: 2 I marked mine in both positions. I think the most critical is with the plane level so you will have the accuracy in flight. However it is nice to know how much fuel you really have before you take off. I simply used several 5 gal containers and marked the level as I added fuel to the header tank in the plane. I put in 2 gal and marked it for tail position and then level. 3 gal, 4 gal, 5, and so on. I only marked it every gallon up to 5. I actually marked this on masking tape that I placed on the dash, next I made up a paper on my computer with the marks and gallon indicators on it matching the masking tape. Finally I took this to a copy machine and made a copy onto clear acetate so you could see the numbers. By the way, I did this at the time I did my weight and balance so I could get the actual position of the moment arm by reverse calculations from the scales. Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net (314) 652-7659 or Cell (314) 346-4038 ----------------------------------- Subject: Gas sight guage From: RFG842@aol.com Going to mark the sight guage on the instrument panel and wondered if it makes much difference if the fuselage is in level flying position or the tail is on the ground. (I've got a tail drager). Could argue merits of both positions. Anyone with suggestions???? Have not seen this on the net or in the manual before. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light From: "Stefan B." Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:59:41 +0100 X-Message-Number: 3 As I know, if one wants to double the speed, he has to triple the power, everything else being equal=2E St=E9fan Balatchev, France * Flesner * wrote: > At 08:27 PM 12~11~99 -0600, you wrote: > >Actually, I think Heat should be first in the Subject line of this email, > >but my point is to apply a bit of Physics to illuminate the subject of so= me > >Heat, and maybe spread some Enlightenment and cool tempers=2E > >It is really best to look at the true numbers, which is an item on my New > >Year's wish list=2E > >Now for the review, sparked by a few comments, but mostly by Ken Jordon, = who > >said if > >F =3D M x A (F - force, M - mass, A - acceleration) > what does Weight have to do with Speed? > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > > Walter, > > It looks like you have a good understanding of the subject=2E For us > "high school physics" challenged builders, could you net this out? > > For every extra 100 pounds of aircraft weight, what is the cost > in speed at cruise? > > What additional horse power would it take to regain the lost speed? > (please don't get lost in the more weight, more horsepower, more > weight, more horsepower loop=2E) > > Please keep it simple for this Tripacer flying KR builder=2E > > Thanks, > > Larry Flesner > TriPacer 2917P - unofficial photo ship for the "Gathering"=2E > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: stefan=2Ebalatchev@wanadoo=2Efr > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-86210A@telelists=2Ecom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gas sight guage From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:19:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 Suggest u use the flying attitude as that is when how much fuel u have really is important. Once the tail is on the ground how much is left is not nearly as important. W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: cartera > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Gas sight guage > Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 3:43 PM > > RFG842@aol.com wrote: > > > > Going to mark the sight guage on the instrument panel and wondered if it > > makes much difference if the fuselage is in level flying position or the tail > > is on the ground. (I've got a tail drager). Could argue merits of both > > positions. > > > > Anyone with suggestions???? Have not seen this on the net or in the manual > > before. > > > > Tnks, Bob > > > > PS Merry Christmas to all. > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > Sure here is my suggestion. Mark one side in level position and the > other side in the three point position. Take a look at my website. > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Calgary, Alberta > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Could you give me a few hints? From: Ray Wallace Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:17:28 -0600 X-Message-Number: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF44A3.3D5B12C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all! I've been lurking on this list on and off for quite a while but haven't = contributed much since I didn't have an airplane. A good friend has = offered his partially completed KR2S to me with a killer deal. = Ordinarily I wouldn't even consider buying a partially completed kit = (especially wood) from anyone. However I know this person well and he = has an extensive background in Contracting and Cabinet Making, etc. He = estimates that the project is more than 50% complete, with all of the = woodwork done. I would appreciate your thoughts on this, especially what = to look out for. Is there anyone building in the Seattle area?=20 Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF44A3.3D5B12C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey all!
 
I've been lurking on this list on and off for quite = a while=20 but haven't contributed much since I didn't have an airplane. A good = friend has=20 offered his partially completed KR2S to me with a killer deal. = Ordinarily I=20 wouldn't even consider buying a partially completed kit (especially = wood) from=20 anyone. However I know this person well and he has an extensive = background in=20 Contracting and Cabinet Making, etc. He estimates that the project is = more than=20 50% complete, with all of the woodwork done. I would appreciate your = thoughts on=20 this, especially what to look out for. Is there anyone building in the = Seattle=20 area?
 
Ray
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF44A3.3D5B12C0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:08:00 +0000 X-Message-Number: 6 Danny, This does NOT sound good. Is the play in the attach fitting against the spar or in the bolts through the spar. I just can't believe that with all 4 attach fittings bolted that you have ANY measureable play at all. I ended lifting up my boat when I "played" with mine at that stage, if I recall. I belive the fix will be to insert bushings into the Wing Attach fitting to use the same size bolt. (I think this is acceptable.) As far as any slop for the fittings go, you "could" flox the bolts into place, but then removal is a pain. The bolts should be snug in the spar holes, requiring you to "tap" them into the spar with a hammer or mallet. If you can just "drop" the bolts for wing attach fittings into the spars you will need to consider drilling for dowel plugs that are epoxied into the spar, and re-drilling the holes in the spar. I'm not sure if that is an acceptable construction fix so I hope others comment on the dowl plug idea. -- Ross -- Ross "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" wrote: > Hello everybody > I have a question I would like to ask in connection with the play I have on > my wing spars. > > At this stage I am just about ready to incert the foam in to my KRs wings > but I have a concern about the play on the wing spar. I can lift the tip of > the spar approximately 1" from the resting position until it locks up > against the bolt again. Is this normal ? (See attached sketch) > <> > Danny > Sasolburg > South Africa > E-Mail: livd0124@natref.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: SPAR-PLAY.JPG > SPAR-PLAY.JPG Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) > Encoding: base64 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Could you give me a few hints? From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:53:36 +0000 X-Message-Number: 7 Ray, Actually, I used to be in your camp.. not wanting to buy anyones project. But after working on mine 10 years I have learned a couple of things. 1) You save $$$ if you do this. Most folks sell the project at or below costs of materials, not including labor. 2) You get to inspect the work and decide if it meets a standard WITHOUT having invested labor to get the work done. It's much easier to discard work done by someone else than your own. 3) You get a head start on finishing! -- Regards Ross PS. I used to live in Corvallis Oregon, Perhaps I will head up to Arlington 2000 and trailer my partially completed bird, or finished bird as the case may be. -- Regards Ross Ray Wallace wrote: > Hey all! I've been lurking on this list on and off for quite a while > but haven't contributed much since I didn't have an airplane. A good > friend has offered his partially completed KR2S to me with a killer > deal. Ordinarily I wouldn't even consider buying a partially completed > kit (especially wood) from anyone. However I know this person well and > he has an extensive background in Contracting and Cabinet Making, etc. > He estimates that the project is more than 50% complete, with all of > the woodwork done. I would appreciate your thoughts on this, > especially what to look out for. Is there anyone building in the > Seattle area? Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR I B Motorglider From: "Jean-Guy Hélie" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:49:16 X-Message-Number: 8 Has anyone of you, KR flyers any information about the Rand Robinson glider? I went on Robinson's web and I did not find any specs or performances about it. The point important for me would be it's glide ratio. I suppose that among all KR's owners, somebody has one motorglider from KR. So, would any of you be kind enough dropping me some info about it. Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR I B Motorglider From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:16:54 +0000 X-Message-Number: 9 I believe it was called the KR-1B, and was a Motorglider. The plans I thought were still available, call Rand Robinson. It is basicly longer wings for the KR-1. The KR-2 it is said would not work well as a motorglider. I'm not so sure.. look at the Katana. At any rate If you can't get plans from Rand Robinson, then you will have to ask others here for more information. -- Regards Ross "Jean-Guy Hélie" wrote: > Has anyone of you, KR flyers any information about the Rand Robinson > glider? > I went on Robinson's web and I did not find any specs or performances about > it. > The point important for me would be it's glide ratio. > I suppose that among all KR's owners, somebody has one motorglider from > KR. > So, would any of you be kind enough dropping me some info about it. > Thanks! > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Total cost of KR2S? From: SkyHawk11@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:38:35 EST X-Message-Number: 10 N808BS WAS BUILT IN 19 MONTHS FOR A COST OF 19000.00 WHICH INCLUDES A NEW VW MOTOR KIT FROM GREAT PLANES WHICH WAS 5000.00 , ALL BRAKE PARTS AND WHEELS AND TIRES AND RADIO WAS NEW PLUS FORMED GLASS WING SKINS AND CANOPY. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR I B Motorglider From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:07:39 -0600 X-Message-Number: 11 If anyone would like a picture of the prototype KR-1B on the ground while taxiing, e-mail me and will send you one. Ed Janssen ejanssen@chipsnet.com -----Original Message----- From: Ross R. Youngblood To: KR-net users group Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR I B Motorglider >I believe it was called the KR-1B, and was a Motorglider. >The plans I thought were still available, call Rand Robinson. > >It is basicly longer wings for the KR-1. The KR-2 it is said would >not work well as a motorglider. I'm not so sure.. look at the Katana. > >At any rate If you can't get plans from Rand Robinson, then you >will have to ask others here for more information. > >-- Regards > Ross > >"Jean-Guy Hélie" wrote: > >> Has anyone of you, KR flyers any information about the Rand Robinson >> glider? >> I went on Robinson's web and I did not find any specs or performances about >> it. >> The point important for me would be it's glide ratio. >> I suppose that among all KR's owners, somebody has one motorglider from >> KR. >> So, would any of you be kind enough dropping me some info about it. >> Thanks! >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ejanssen@chipsnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:24:28 EST X-Message-Number: 12 of cource i am no authority, but here goes. i think reaming the holes out to the next larger bolt size is a lot safer fix, the flox method is not a safe cure as the flox is not structrual especially the stress the waf bolts are exposed to charles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Total cost of KR2S? From: "Rodolfo Pennini" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:21:37 X-Message-Number: 13 Thank you very much by the information, It is very useful for me Best Regards Rodolfo Pennini ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light From: WilliamTCA@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:43:14 EST X-Message-Number: 14 Walt and all my friends who think weight is a big factor in top speed, I was thinking scanning in a few graphs and quotes so that you might see my point, but lets do it this way: Anyone who feels that weight is a big factor in top speed use or abuse any equation that you wish, write it down and share with me the following. How much slower in Percentage of top speed would a KR2 be if it was 150 lb. heavier? To stay on the same page, lets assume the pilot weighs 160 lb. and the light KR is 640 pounds and the heavy one is 790 lb.. If the top speed of the 640lb plane with the 160 lb pilot is 185mph what will the top speed be on the same plane built 150lbs heavier? Walt, I am very interested in you number and its justification here. Without even looking at an equation my personal Guess is 7 or 8 mph. Is this the big factor you were thinking of? This is an extreme weight difference. I dont advocate building heavy planes but If you think that a plane would be 40 mph faster if it was 100lbs lighter you are very wrong. To settle this after the predictions are made we will simply ask 10 people with typical KRs how much their planes slow down with a passenger. This is real world data. Building light planes is important for many reasons, but top speed is not affect greatly by weight. thanks William ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR I B Motorglider From: WilliamTCA@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:54:30 EST X-Message-Number: 15 The only person I know of who had personal experience with the KR1b is my friend Steve, his AOL address is Visionflyr thanks William ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Total cost of KR2S? From: KRBLUCH@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:03:29 EST X-Message-Number: 16 N197DB was built in 1600 hours, over a three and a half year period, at a total cost of 18,000 dollars. NSI Subaru powered. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Total cost of KR2S? From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:13:40 -0500 X-Message-Number: 17 My 2S just needs paint and I will come in at approx. 13K. I bought a 2100 Revmaster that was still in the box after being sold and resold about 3 times, I paid $2600 including freight . I got all my instruments at Sun & Fun 99. Nothing is approved for IFR but then neither am I. Happy Trails! Kenny ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Could you give me a few hints? From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:21:21 -0800 X-Message-Number: 18 Ray: I am in Seattle. e-mail me direct and we can get together. There are several people in the area building. Marvin McCoy Seattle, Wa. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------- > Ray Wallace wrote: > > Hey all! > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this, > especially what to look out for. Is there anyone building in the > Seattle area? > > Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Panel??? From: USAUS@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:37:48 EST X-Message-Number: 19 All, Need some help! I have looked through my plans and book many times. I can find no specific specs. on the instrument panel. I have the fire wall mounted on my KR2S and the engine cowl mounted. I want to build the forward deck but I have no info on the width,hieght or the radius on the top corners of the panel end. How did you guys/gals build your forward decks. Should it have any rise in it as you move towards the panel from the fire wall? Regards Scott ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: JEHayward@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:12:06 EST X-Message-Number: 20 In a message dated 12/12/99 3:25:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com writes: << ............the flox method is not a safe cure as the flox is not structrual........... >> Did I misread various posts over the past couple of years about flox being structural? I thought this had been discussed as to a good fix for slightly mis-drilled bolt holes and other uses. Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: Ray Wallace Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:36:38 -0600 X-Message-Number: 21 OK I'm clueless. What is Flox? Is there a FAQ for this kind of thing? Ray > Danny, > This does NOT sound good. Is the play in the attach fitting against the > spar or in the bolts through the spar. I just can't believe that with all 4 > attach > fittings bolted that you have ANY measureable play at all. I ended lifting up > my boat when I "played" with mine at that stage, if I recall. > > I belive the fix will be to insert bushings into the Wing Attach fitting to > use the same size bolt. (I think this is acceptable.) As far as any slop > for the fittings go, you "could" flox the bolts into place, but then removal > is a pain. The bolts should be snug in the spar holes, requiring you to ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: need info From: "jimmy edmondson jr" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:37:22 X-Message-Number: 22 hello to all. im a builder want to be and am very close to making the leap. the kr-2 looks promising. im looking for builders and those with already flying kr's in the san antonio tx area. also would like feed back on cost of plans built kr2's, hours to build (realistic) and pros and cons of the kr thanks jimmy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR2 for sale!! From: Larry & Dorothy Jones Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:44:41 -0800 X-Message-Number: 23 Lost Medical! Must Sell! 1997 KR2 tail dragger, 1600 VW engine complete rebuild. Signed off as airworthy 7/97. 10 hours on aiiraft, all taxi time. Complete and ready to fly. $8,000. If interested, contact Larry Jones by email at jones@ncis.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 for sale!! From: Larry & Dorothy Jones Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:57:20 -0800 X-Message-Number: 24 Lost Medical! Must Sell! 1997 KR2 tail dragger, 1600 VW engine complete rebuild. Signed off as airworthy 7/97. 10 hours on aircraft, all taxi time. Complete and ready to fly. $8,000. If interested, contact Larry Jones by email at jones@ncis.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:56:01 -0800 X-Message-Number: 25 On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:12:06 EST JEHayward@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 12/12/99 3:25:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, > CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com writes: > > << ............the flox method is not a safe cure as the flox is > not > structrual........... >> > > Did I misread various posts over the past couple of years > about flox > being structural? I thought this had been discussed as to a good > fix > for slightly mis-drilled bolt holes and other uses. > > Jim Hayward > Rapid City, SD Flox is a structural component. If I had to fill a void in a bolt hole for a Wing Attach Fitting, I would probably use milled fibers instead as it is a bit harder than flox. In the Glasairs, you'll find milled fibers in areas that you find flox on a KR. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Panel??? From: Mark Jones Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:31:41 +0000 X-Message-Number: 26 USAUS@aol.com wrote: > All, > > Need some help! I have looked through my plans and book many times. I can > find no specific specs. on the instrument panel. I have the fire wall > mounted on my KR2S and the engine cowl mounted. I want to build the forward > deck but I have no info on the width,hieght or the radius on the top corners > of the panel end. > > How did you guys/gals build your forward decks. Should it have any rise in it > as you move towards the panel from the fire wall? > > Regards > Scott > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: flykr2s@execpc.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com Scott, The construction of the KR gives the builder many areas to design and improvise. The instrument panel is one of these areas. I don't think I have seen two panels designed alike. I have built my panel with a rise from the firewall of approximately one inch. My forward deck is a removable type utilizing piano hinges to attach the deck. If you view my web site listed below, you will be able to see how the forward deck was constructed. http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage Please email me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com if you have any questions after viewing the site. Good Luck, Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Flox From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:46:57 -0800 X-Message-Number: 27 Flox - flocked cotten (finely ground tee shirts) mixed with epoxy makes for a structural filler. Same with milled glass fibers, except perhaps stronger. On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:36:38 -0600 Ray Wallace writes: > OK I'm clueless. What is Flox? Is there a FAQ for this kind of thing? > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:01:28 -0800 X-Message-Number: 28 JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > Did I misread various posts over the past couple of years about flox > being structural? I thought this had been discussed as to a good fix > for slightly mis-drilled bolt holes and other uses. > Flox IS structural. This is one way (bed the bolts in flox) to fix the problem (loose bolts in spar caps) but probably not the best way. For what its worth I bedded all my spar cap bolts in flox. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Total cost of KR2S? From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:06:16 -0800 X-Message-Number: 29 Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > > My 2S just needs paint and I will come in at approx. 13K. > I bought a 2100 Revmaster that was still in the box after being sold and > resold about 3 times, I paid $2600 including freight . You are getting a good idea of what it cost to build a KR2S but keep in mind that a lot of these guys scratch built a lot of the parts. If you were to build a KR2S using all the pre molded parts from RR you would have almost $20k in the airframe alone. If you have time and can scratch build parts you can save a ton of $$$. My KR2S will fall in the $10k to $13k zone. My goal was to build a plane for less than $10k and I could hit that target but I might just add some items towards the end of construction that will add a few more $$. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:13:28 EST X-Message-Number: 30 ok, one last thread on this and then it can die. most of my post was overlooked i guess, i said it would be safer to ream the waf to the next larger size, sure flox would be great for fill if the spar holes were too big, my point was not to use it to fill just the waf's, i never said it wouldn't work, just safer to ream and go with next size bolt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Progress over the weekend From: Mike Mims Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:39:16 -0800 X-Message-Number: 31 Wanted to report that I finally got around to welding up the gussets in the lower landing gear brackets as well as wrapping the gear legs with layers of 10 oz bid and flox. For what its worth I used cheap ole soda straws from the grocery store for the brake line. I had saved all my straws from Jack-in-the-Box but I lost them some how!:o( I also managed to get another coat of smooth prime on 90% of the airplane. Finished up the firewall in preparation for fiberfax and the stainless steel sheet. Soon after I get the landing gear back on the engine will go on as well as fixing the big holes in my inboard wings. This thing is turning into an airplane right before my eyes! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:54:27 X-Message-Number: 32 Walter, thanks for your input! I intentionally did NOT want to get into all the physics of flight, nor designing aircraft. My project is to finish my KR!(very mundane) I have done a few papers on aerodynamics(for fun!) but will not consider any other project(design or ?) until the current one is done. Love that vector analysis! Don't forget where your coefficients of lift and drag go into Mr. Newton's law. (I didn't know he was a lawyer!)They are JUST THAT... coefficients! Ken J ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR I B Motorglider From: Michael Taglieri Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:44:56 -0500 X-Message-Number: 33 >It is basicly longer wings for the KR-1. The KR-2 it is said would >not work well as a motorglider. I'm not so sure.. look at the Katana. The fact that there may be other 2-place motorgliders isn't really relevant: Rand-Robinson has that it is not safe to put the longer wings on a KR-2, and they should know. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:00:27 +0000 X-Message-Number: 34 Ray, If you have Tony Bengilis' books, or the Rand Plans they will discuss Flox a bit. It is a mix of cotton fiber and epoxy, normally used to re-enforce trailing edges in fiberglass layups. It is structural in this applcation as opposed to micro which is a mix of glass balloons and epoxy. Recommended reading: Aircraft Spruce Catalog -- $5.00 from Aircraft spruce (Flox and micro)) Wicks Aircraft Catalog -- $5.00 from Wicks aircraft. Tony Bengelis Books -- Sportplane Builder, Sportplane Construction Tech, Firewall forward. (Amazon.com or above sources) There is a good fiberglass book in ACS which covers this. Look for the Perido Skiff[sp] kit in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, it comes with a book. (I don't have it handy or I would add it to this list. - Ross Ray Wallace wrote: > OK I'm clueless. What is Flox? Is there a FAQ for this kind of thing? > > Ray > > > Danny, > > This does NOT sound good. Is the play in the attach fitting against the > > spar or in the bolts through the spar. I just can't believe that with all > 4 > > attach > > fittings bolted that you have ANY measureable play at all. I ended > lifting up > > my boat when I "played" with mine at that stage, if I recall. > > > > I belive the fix will be to insert bushings into the Wing Attach fitting > to > > use the same size bolt. (I think this is acceptable.) As far as any slop > > for the fittings go, you "could" flox the bolts into place, but then > removal > > is a pain. The bolts should be snug in the spar holes, requiring you to > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 for sale!! From: Lon & Jody Boothby Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:51:04 -0800 X-Message-Number: 35 Larry and Dorothy, I would love to purchase your KR-2, but I am a bit short on cash (who isn't). Are you interested in trading for a couple og 89 Yamaha four-wheelers complete with a brand new two place tilting trailor to haul them? If it is of interest to you, I can email you some photos. Thanks, Lon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Wing spar From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:20:59 +0200 X-Message-Number: 36 Thanks guys I have decided to pull out my reamer and go one size bigger on the bolt size. Incidentally the play was on big bolts. Danny Livingstone Natref Inspection Department Tel: +27-16-9402663 e-mail: livd0124@natref.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com